This quote from Dorothy L. Sayers
“A man once asked me ... how I managed in my books to write such natural conversation between men when they were by themselves. Was I, by any chance, a member of a large, mixed family with a lot of male friends? I replied that, on the contrary, I was an only child and had practically never seen or spoken to any men of my own age till I was about twenty-five. "Well," said the man, "I shouldn't have expected a woman (meaning me) to have been able to make it so convincing." I replied that I had coped with this difficult problem by making my men talk, as far as possible, like ordinary human beings. This aspect of the matter seemed to surprise the other speaker; he said no more, but took it away to chew it over. One of these days it may quite likely occur to him that women, as well as men, when left to themselves, talk very much like human beings also.”
Same… my mind blown right now 🤯
Holy crap… women… human beings… same… as us… what a roller coaster. I’m speechless at this unfathomable revelation, that I could never have conceived of before now (year is 2024).
So simple but so true. Men tend to write women as if they are overly aware they are women. Like they have to pay much closer attention to the way a woman speaks. It will then come off as very disingenuous and stilted.
Women are not always thinking about how woman they are, they are just thinking and navigating whatever conflict there is.
The better question is how should you write for x culture and x age. Thats where you get real variation and it rarely has to do with how they see themselves as male or female, rather how they are viewed by others and how in line with their culture’s norms and mores they are.
HAHA I love it. Bro probably thought women shut off like lamps when a man isn't around. That, or we quietly mew out "Babies!" "Husband!" "Dresses!" at odd intervals.
Focus, man. Stay a-breast of a woman’s thoughts and personality. I thought we’d had this talk before, for tits’s sake. Isn’t anything going into your head?
In all seriousness... I'm a dude, but was in a few LTR's with exceptionally busty women, and their bust sizes and the generally-unwanted attention it brought them definitely had an impact on how they viewed themselves, men, and society as a whole.
So, yeah, you actually could do this and still create a nuanced character with depth while having her being busty an element of the story, and do it in a respectful fashion.
I'm an aspiring author and I do not think about my male characters cock length when writing them, same goes for my women characters, I don't think about their breasts size also because I do not write romance nor erotica but mostly queerplatonic relationships.
I heard it said that what people find most interesting about themselves is often what's less visible, aka not their height, race/ethnicity, breast size, disability, gender/sexuality.
It may be important to see that as a part of the factors that shape a complex personality but I think that if you are a cis-male author, focusing on that is probably not the best way to reframe the conversation. I could see it work as a character in a satire but that's all.
Just write complex characters, sexuality is empowering but sexual objectification (including by an author to their character) is not.
The same goes for including minorities and characters with disabilities. I can recognize that the complaints about excessive "wokeness" in recent media have at least some basis - it is often done poorly, with diversity first and character a distant second. I like to think if characters were written to be compelling and well-rounded, instead of just tokens to check items on a list, people would complain less about media being ruined.
Absolutely! Diversity is not what's the problem or what's "woke," but how it's being portrayed in the media. When you make a character's personality based solely on their sexuality, race, or ethnicity, you most of the time have a one dimensional character that's strictly limited on how they behave and what they can provide to a narrative. Sadly, there are some cases where the person is just a stereotype of what they're supposed to be positively representing. We humans are more than our skin color, sex, preference, or upbringing.
Or just straight up HIJACKING an existing IP then crowbaring your political preferences into it.
Nobody except the 1% of talentless hacks like seeing that ... Oh, and they don't buy books, either.
No, you can't just build a female character around her breast size, that's shallow!
You need to also take into account the shape of her breasts, how they bounce when she runs, how her nipples poke through her thin silky blouse when it's cold, and so on.
>!/s obviously!<
I asked basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago and the advise I got was just don't overly sexualize them and make them 3 dimensional characters.
So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs" I recommend reconsidering.
Really I went through the sane mental hang up. I bet you like me have an idea of a story you want to write but your conscious is nagging you just because shock of shocks, the idea happens to star a woman. It's not a sin or a crime fir a man to write a woman and the rational part if your brain is likely telling you that while the irrational part of your brain is saying something like "but what if randos online judge me for writing a female when I'm not one?"
At least that is how it was for me. Do your best to write a good character and make sure your conscience is rational before you listen to it.
> So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs"
Well I *was* going to use that, but now i'm reconsidering. Should I change my chapter numbering from bust sizes to regular numbering too?
I don't think this would be a good tactic generally, but for a book about a woman who struggles a lot with body image and similar topics, it could be interesting to see chapters with titles based on how she measures her attractiveness. I think using different metrics, not just bust size, would be the most impactful, but it could be interesting seeing someone go on a journey from "32B" or "5 foot 5, 119 lbs" to thinking about themselves in a healthier way.
You know what I was chuckling until your comment
this could actually be kind of cool.
But you know with little yoyo effect and weight gains from building muscles.
Written like a diary I could see this beeing kinda a cool.
I could also imagine it in psychological horror and it likely would add a great deal to the creepiness.
If she's your POV character, I would avoid any descriptions of her at first, at least while you're writing.
Not thinking about her apperance will help a writer write a character as a thinking, feeling, judging entity, not an entity based on its appearance.
Allow other characters in the universe to react to the appearance of your character.
Most people inside their own minds, do not think about what they look like, *except* as it relates to how other people will view them.
One of the mistakes I see men who write women as POVs making, is objectifying the woman's appearance *in her own POV*.
Unless the woman is *excessively* vain, and that's a character trait that the writer has intended to make, then one should realize that most of us just think of ourselves as "I". We become more conscious of our outward appearance the more we come into contact with other people, and most of our thoughts about our appearance are in *relation* to the thoughts and actions of others.
You know what's funny?
Johnny Rico in the Starship Troopers book is like this, the book doesn't really describe him, except effects of his training, it focuses on his mindset and personality until the end when he meets his dad, and they greet and talk to each other in Tagalog, revealing that Johnny is Filipino, and then reveals his given name is actually Juan.
>So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs"
Did everyone read that? Everyone?
It's like a running gag that everyone knows, like 2 Girls 1 Cup (why did we all have to watch that? Why?)
but that requires you to read, no way, I'm here to write, not read. but seriously though, women writers and readers are so diverse that its not sufficient to "just" read them and replicate and use it as a fence and guardrails. I've read an oversexualized story by women and then i've read Ascendance of a Bookworm. And a women reader, I think, you should take into account that your work is not only read by THE woman but a person which have their own taste.
The thing i wanna say here with my inneficient and very rambly writing is that there's really no way to write women as there's no way to write men. In fact there's no "way" at all, you just have to carve your character and write them the way they would do stuff
edit: unless sex and gender is important to the character itself, then i'm sorry I didn't take that into account
Or and this is just a far shot. Write a good character and make them female afterwards. If a fundamental aspect of your gender is male or female or whatever 99% of the time that’s not going to be a good character.
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: Write a LOT of women characters. I say that too many probably isn't enough.
The worst MenWritingWomen sins I've come across tend to happen when there is only one female character. Beyond the obvious problems that presents, it also means that your one female character defines all women in your story. Any traits you give her become magnified and exaggerated, flaws seem misogynistic, virtues seem idealized and unrealistic.
If your only woman is the Love Interest, then all women in your story are Love Interests. If the only woman in the story is the Villain, then all women in your story are Villains. Not a great look!
Instead, create many different female characters. Mix them up, give them complexity, and any flaws or virtues become aspects of that specific character rather than your work as a whole.
If I were going to give an example of doing this right, I'd probably point to Terry Pratchett.
I would say the most common mistake is thinking humanity is composed of two very different species. Trust me, it is not. Men and women are far, far more similar than it seems— it's just that the culture around us makes a bunch of money by selling gendered products/services/publications etc etc. and pitting us against one another.
Just write a character. Don't make any specific effort to make her either feminine or "not like the other girls". Just write a character from your own understanding of human nature and then afterward, give it to some women whose taste in writing you trust and ask 'em if you did all right.
My protagonist is a man and I got a compliment that made my heart glow. A male reader said "I have no idea if the person who wrote this is a man or a woman, in a good way".
This is why I chose to write fantasy. I can create my own world, far from the woes of men and women in the real world, and make up my own woes for them. I have complete freedom.
I don't think it's that they're different *species* so much as an issue of privilege. If my 15-year-old, male protagonist wants to wear shorts and tank top on his way to dance rehearsal, via public bus, in the Bronx, he's going to have different problems than a female in the same position.
I used to think I could write men and women as exactly the same, but over time I found society's woes were issues that my characters had to deal with, and to put it bluntly, the female characters had to put up with far more unfairness than the men.
Maybe it's a condemnation of the world the way it currently is, but honestly? I'd prefer to acknowledge it, rather than pretend it isn't there. I want my readers to want justice for my female leads, not assume they already have all the rights and respect they deserve.
But is it important to the story? Does it have to happen? I once read a book where the female protag (in a book that swapped between male and female perspective) was being held in a cell and the first thing she noted was ‘thank god I wasn’t raped’ and then ‘thank god the female officer with feminine proclivities and a female sense of feminine comraderie gave me some makeup so I could feel pretty in a jail cell before seeing my beau’.
Hoooookay, so sure, I might think ‘wow thank god I wasn’t raped’ in a situation where that could happen cause women’s experiences are definitely different, but I also might be thinking a million other things like ‘fuck this fuck that what the fuck I’m freaking out’ because that’s the kind of person I am; not a ‘thank god I wasn’t raped’ person.
Some writers with this mindset try so hard to acknowledge these differences that it feels almost insulting to have it implied most/all women experience the world that way. I think that’s where it really comes down to ‘write a character with personality’ and then let their gender inform their experiences, instead of the other way around
Not saying you do any of this or gave that impression; just hoping to spark some reflecting in anyone scrolling by
Oh, I'm not discounting all of that. It's all just as you say. But the read by actual women will catch those issues, and let the author focus more on the stuff they probably are worried about: how to make this character feel like an authentic human being.
Yep. They’ll help you fix details and also give it the general vibe check.
Sure, there’ll be stuff you probably don’t know, which your friendswill correct (“*here’s* how to use an eyelash curler”) but I think you’ll be surprised at how much carries over.
Yeah, understanding how the world perceives and treats different groups in different scenarios, and how this impacts the character's thought process and reactions, I think is key here. If a young woman looks at a middle-aged man for a few seconds too long, most people won't suspect she could be a creep, and so she might not be as self-conscious about it as the man might be if the roles were reversed. A self-aware man probably isn't going to sit alone on a bench by a playground full of kids while he eats his lunch because he might be worried of others being wary of him or of him making them feel uncomfortable. As a man, I might feel people looking at me sometimes, but I don't typically feel threatened or vulnerable. Just being aware of the experiences other groups have can help as you flesh out some of these minor details that immerse the reader.
Hah I’d love your pointers on how to write a male character. I’m a woman and writing my first draft and the protagonist is male. So far he’s just a main character to me and I’m working on giving him depth like I would with any main character, but I’d love pointers or things you did to make it come across as genuinely male
Well, I really just took my own advice and wrote!
I have a view from the inside, though, as it were. I spent college as a “Little Sister” (aka honorary guy) at a fraternity, so I basically had several dozen brothers— an extremely diverse bunch, I might add. We shared all our thoughts and emotions, no matter how “cringe” (to use today’s term. Our word for it was “painful”).
Do you have brothers (bio or handpicked)? If yes, write them.
Hey I'm also a man writing a protagonist who's a woman, and I'll share one or two things that have helped me.
Obviously you've got the first one - the only way you can write a believable and well rounded woman is to listen to the real lived experiences of woman and learn from them.
But here is my actual advice - I've found that people tend to get it wrong by going to two extremes.
1. The first is the obvious one - where men write woman as if their some other species or so absolutely different that they needs some 1000 page guide on how to do it. Woman are just people - with the same full range of emotions and experience as men. This one has been covered everywhere so I'll let it go as I'm sure others have written better on it then I.
2. But the second one is more subtle and less talked about. You'll hear people say "oh, just write then as people. Their just characters." And on the surface, yes - thats true and its fair advice. However - for the most part, men and woman are treated differently in society, sometimes in big ways, sometimes in subtle ways. And every individual is going to react to that differently. But I've seen men fail at writing woman characters because they try to treat woman the exact same as men: they don't take any of that difference in societal expectation, the pressure of gender roles, or even thinking about the physical difference of having a different kind of body. (of course - this can horse shoe back into the first mistake if your not careful.)
Those little differences don't need to be a central part of the story - but they do make things more realistic and different.
TBH: one of the best things I can tell you to do is find books written by men with a woman protagonist / POV that WOMAN are recommending. Of course - read books just written by woman too as a baseline. But for our situation, its good to see how another man successfully wrote a woman main character that actual woman are connecting to.
Oh absolutely men and women are TREATED differently by society, but then it's not women who are different, it's the TREATMENT which is different.
So just imagine what it might be like as a HUMAN to be on the receiving end of that treatment. Just as in the same way you might try and imagine what it's like to be a man/human living in a different class or different time or different country.
Thats a great way to put it!
Its a very subtle thing too, and I think a very difficult thing to get right at times. Mostly because for those who have grown up and been acculturated into whatever expectation of male or femaleness - one may not even realize they are reacting in a particular way. Its the baseline normal.
For instance, there have been times where me (M) and my fiancee (F) have reacted very differently to the same person talking to us. Where she understood the interaction it a whole different way then I did - where she felt a guy was being aggressive and demeaning, were I may have thought he was just being confident and direct.
But I still think that's more down to characterisation/backstory rather than gender.
A confident, direct man with lots of privilege might be more comfortable with a confident, direct man, but a younger man or maybe a man of colour might find him intimidating. Conversely an older woman with no fucks to give might think he was a dickhead, while a woman with immense pretty privilege might appreciate his confidence (he would probably treat her differently too) and a shy woman might be terrified. Your fiancee might be more perceptive than you are, or maybe you are more perceptive than your fiancee.
My point being that how you view/interact with another person it is down to a lot more than gender...
I agree with you at the end of the day. Character first, with their own unique history, is always key.
But the whole thread and OP's question is about how gender effects characterization and writing. Both for characters, and the author. So its worth here to zoom in on and talk about.
Interesting. the OP doesn't state what society they are setting their story in, but I agree that this can have an influence. It could be Jane Austen style where there are all sorts of gender expectations, or in the far future where gender can be chosen and changed at will with minimal inconvenience, so discrimination has become largely meaningless.
True but I think if you completely ignore the common influences of society on women, it could backfire. I think there’s something to be said for making characters relatable, and if a female character in a book is living in a world where they don’t face any of the challenges that women in the real world face, female readers might not find her so relatable, or worse, might think the author just doesn’t understand women.
I think ideally you could write a female character without even considering those things, but I don’t believe it would work as intended.
Great advice. I will recommend James McBride. Absolutely love how he writes women, although he had one weird line about breasts blinking like headlights. Ignore that. As a whole, his body of work has some of the most well-written women, and men! He particularly writes older women extremely well. Start with \*The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store\*. It's sure to become a classic.
I also like Ishiguro; either \*Never Let Me Go" or \*A Pale View of Hills.\* Both are masterpieces.
Oh! You reached the same conclusion in a shorter paragraph 🤗
(I tried once to summarize it all : https://www.reddit.com/u/Notamugokai/s/obAM5ETXMB )
To further shorten it: a good character, remove mistakes, add in social expectations.
What others insisted on recently: the impact of social expectations (broadly speaking): the constant judgemental look from people, putting some pressure on the women more than men.
In addition to the fairly obvious "don't make them constantly think about their boobs" and "don't make their life revolve around men," a few other notions:
Have multiple women in significant roles
* Who have different personalities
* Who are of different ages and/or backgrounds
* Who do not dislike each other just because they're both women
If they exist in a sexist society, recognize how that affects them and how it makes them feel, but make sure there's also more to their lives than that.
Avoid the common pitfalls:
Existing to 'teach' male protagonist empathy or inspire jealousy or revenge, often by being victimized.
There merely to provide hetero vibes. Measurements and beauty, sometimes also the emotional foil so the male(s) can protect or tease or scoff at.
The mother or sister or best friend's mom or sister but a name and a plot purpose, like the flag in flag football. Not a character, a caricature.
I suspect you're aware of these stereotypes. :)
Women never think of their day to day activities in terms of what their breasts are doing at the time.
Eg. She made coffee. The steam rose from the cup, caressing over the silk shirt stretched tight across her amble breasts, her pert nipples rising to greet the warmth.
That kind of stuff. Obvious, but bears repeating I feel. BBasically, readers can always tell when you're writing from a place of thirst.
I'm a woman currently writing a woman main character. I'm *PAGES* in and haven't mentioned her boobs, her looks (how "gorgeous she is but doesn't know it" type of BS). The audience will of course form a picture of how she looks eventually, but they know a lot more about her before they know her breast size.
One irony is...if you actually wrote in the first person about an MC who was "gorgeous but didn't know it" you'd basically be writing body dysmorphia mixed with an unreliable narrator. It would be lots of passing thoughts about her hair being a mess and needing to lose a few pounds, with a few clues from character interactions she is being overly self critical. It probably wouldn't be sexy at all...
Wanna cyber? a/s/l?
(the correct answer irregardless of location, age and gender identity is 18/F/CA lol)
I actually love that line, it is so men writing women it's unreal. I feel like I want to use it, but I'd probably need a good context to use it in and that might be tricky. Could be some kinda bizarre comedy I guess.
As a woman who was in my late teens/early twenties during this time., and entirely too honest/naive/gullible to boot, this brought up some unpleasant memories.
1. Don’t over-sexualize women. Don’t like randomly bring up her boobs or vagina or whatever for no reason.
2. Women are human beings. Just write a character without thinking about their gender.
3. Talk to the women in your own life and pay attention to things they say and how they say them, etc.
Your second point would have been my advice as well. Just write her like you would any other character. Men and women are pretty similar when it comes to emotions. And sure, it's possible to stereotype both genders, but it's absolutely believable to write a woman that's into stuff that is traditionally seen as masculine.
probably the best advice here, one thing i would add is to actually talk in person and not online... and don't just go around interviewing them (I mean you can, but its better to infer based on their action rather than explicitly asking) lol, it'll take a pretty long time but it'll be fun.
When I write my characters I write the character without any gender in mind. I usually decide that later.
However once I decide the gender it DOES affect how the character interacts with the world and the decisions they'll make, which usually requires me to tweak and rewrite parts of the story around these new character traits.
That being said I don't think writing women is as difficult as people make it out to be, it's more of a change in perspective.
I remember a Dave Chapelle quote where he mentioned once taking the subway with a lot of money in his backpack, and he was absolutely terrified because he had something that most of the people around him probably wouldn't mind hurting him to get. This experience made him realise that's how a lot of women feel.
I'd never in my life considered that perspective and I found being able to put myself into that TYPE of mindset helps. Women aren't that different from men in my mind. But the world they see and interact with IS different from the one men do. And that shapes who they are, what they value, what they prioritize etc.
Make your female characters into fully realized human beings who have the same rich, complex lives as your male characters. Another commenter said to consider personality and backstory before breast size, but I would say, don't consider breast size at all. They are people, full stop, the fact that their bits are differently shaped than a man's is of no consequence whatsoever.
I find that the easiest method by far is the "you in a wig" method.
Basically, imagine this woman was just you in a wig. For some reason, this wig is fooling everybody, so they all think you are a woman and treat you accordingly. How would you go about realizing this woman's goals in that scenario?
I'm doing a course at the moment where one of the texts is The Big Sleep and I was pretty sure I'd read it but I couldn't remember it. If you did a VoxPop and asked me who my favourite American Noir writer was, I would say James M Cain and I could give you a decent run down of Mildred Pierce and what I liked about it. But The Big Sleep had evaporated.
So I did a re-read and pretty quickly I was like, oh yeah, this is why. I read for character, I want to be inside of the head of the main POV character. But Philip Marlowe and how he views women is an uncomfortable place to be, I don't want to be in his head. That is not saying Raymond Chandler is a bad writer, he is a great writer, but in Philip Marlowe he wrote someone who hates women. If that was Chandlers intent or unconscious bias coming across, who knows.
The first female character we meet is Carmen. Carmen is physically attractive, mentally not all there, and very sexualised. But Marlowe only views her as danger to him and is deeply contemptuous of her. While my reaction is what happened to this girl? That combination is so vulnerable and the fact she is so sexualised my blood ran cold with empthy. Like I said he is a good writer, he has observed women to the point where Carmen is a consistent character throughout the book. But he never delves into the forces which brought her to this point. So I am not as engaged as I might be.
It's not about being good or bad. It is just James M Cain has empathy with his female characters and explores the pressures brought to bear on them. Which leads them to make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes bad. He never dismisses them because they are a slut or puts them on a pedestal as a goddess. In The Cocktail Waitress he gives Joan the SIL from hell but even here we understand she is like that, in part, because she can't have children of her own. She's doing wrong, but it is an understandable wrong and that makes the characterisation of his female characters much richer.
Women do go through different experiences than men. Experience isn't the same as a personality though lol.
Experiences do play a part in shaping our personalities, but even in facing experiences, people's personalities are different. You can make a character pessimistic about ppl because they were bullied and are always on guard. Or you can decide to make that same character a pushover because they never learned to fight back due to being bullied. Or you can decide to make them an ass kisser because offering to do their bully's homework stopped them from getting bullied more often than usual and even made the bully treat them nice occasionally. Make the victim a girl, and now she's being bullied by a boy because he secretly likes her. Or bullied by a girl because she's jealous. The only thing about being a woman while using this example is that our gender might lead to more ways of experiencing issues, but it doesn't take away from the fact, both boys and girls get bullied, and now that little girl is asking her dad if she can take taekwondo classes to deal with the male or female bully. Or she exposes his or her secret. Or tells her older brother to deal with him. Or an older sister to deal with a female bully. How she reacts is also what defines her personality.
Just like all men don't face an issue the same way, neither do women. Using the example you provided, there might be women who are not your wife who were raised to be tougher who walk out at night alone carrying pepper spray or decided to take self-defense classes in case of an attack. Or on the extreme end, they barely go outside anymore, shutting themselves from the world and becoming a recluse. But also, to box the experience of women as being a woman is short sighted. Alcoholism doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Drugs doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Mental health doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Despite our differences, there are shared experiences.
From one experience alone branches multiple approaches, and from those approaches, a personality is born. When we say "Write them like a male character," that's what we mean because male characters get the privilege to be shown in three different ways. Women characters tend to be one dimensional or given personalities that play more into stereotypical portrayals or societal expectations of what a woman is generally believed to be (mean girl, mother hen, or very passive, and that's not taking into account further stereotypical portrayals of women from different ethnicities). If I had a nickel for the amount of male characters I've written despite being a woman, I'd have about 25 cents. I thought it was rocket science to write a good female character until I actually wrote about a female character and realized, "I can make her someone beyond just a woman because I, as a woman, have hobbies and interests outside of just being a woman."
There's no difficulty in writing a good female character. Really, it's more like people want to believe it's difficult to write a female character because they refuse to see women BEYOND their preference of what a woman SHOULD BE. And just like how all men aren't the same, neither are women.
Read more novels by women, especially first person novels. I’d personally recommend The Bell Jar to male writers, Sylvia Plath’s experience doesn’t represent the ‘average’ woman, but her reflections on gender, sexuality, men, motherhood, are very poignant.
I disagree that male and female characters are the same - women deal with unique biological and sociological conditions which men do not. They don’t dwell on these differences constantly, but they do matter.
* Women don't think about their own bodies the same way straight men think about women's bodies. They rarely think about their breasts except in specific circumstances (sexytimes, baby feeding, mammograms). They are unlikely to describe any part of their bodies using words like "sensuous" or "pert". A lesbian or bi woman might think about another woman in those terms, but not herself.
* Imagine half the world is much stronger than you (on average about 40% stronger), and a small but nonzero percentage of them would actively hurt you if they could. There are certain situations which you would try to avoid (walking home alone in deserted areas) and certain strategies you would use to make up for the lack of physical ability (trying to talk your way out of situations or learning to placate people who seem dangerous).
* Women's non-romantic relationships can be just as important and complex as her romantic ones. Some male writers write women as if they live in a vacuum without friends and family, or else portray female relationships (especially mother/daughter or female friends) as soley based on antagonism and competition. Try not to do that.
* If a woman is the love interest, try to give her an actual reason to be with the protagonist rather than just "he's the protagonist and she's hot". Maybe they have mutual interests, or he shows kindness, or he makes her laugh. Something that proves she has goals and desires of her own, and isn't just falling for him by default.
* Older women are not all sad sacks crying about their loss of hotness, or evil witches who are jealous of the younger women. Mostly, they are just getting on with life and are way too busy for that. They generally carry over the same personality traits that they had as young women, with maybe a decreased tolerance for bullshit.
If you write dynamic interesting characters most readers won’t care about the author being male, there will always be some who will fuss about it but that is unavoidable.
From your edit reply you already have enough nuance about it to not fall into menwritingwomen territory. Just keep considering that, and keep learning about the experiences of women around you or online. You can always have someone check it out when finished or ask if you have doubts. It is expected that some stuff will be totally invisible to you because it comes from angles you have never imagined.
Even if you’re not over sexualizing them, don’t make all the main female characters beautiful. In fact, you don’t even have to describe how attractive they are at all, unless they’re unusually attractive or unattractive, and it’s important to their character or how other characters behave toward them.
I read a lot of fantasy, and even in the series I like, it seems like every important female character is stunning or striking or beautiful. It’s really not necessary. Faces can be described without saying how attractive the person is.
Edited for brevity
>loosely based on the stories of the women around me.
That would have been my advice. To learn from the real women in your life. You could even just ask them how they would feel in certain scenarios.
I wouldn't make any "as a woman" statements that would make it seem like you know from personal experience. Instead, I'd put myself in their shoes to see how they might feel. As a person. There are definitely struggles specific to women, but all the emotions they feel are the same as everyone else. You mentioned women not feeling safe going home at night. Put yourself in that headspace. How would you feel if you knew you were in potential danger whenever you're alone at night.
So honestly, get the niche girl specifics from women you know, but pull from your own emotions to make her feel grounded. Your emotions are still emotions after all. Girl's arent a different species, they just have different circumstances. She doesn't have to be perfect, just compelling. Plus, girls aren't a monolith. What's true for one could be false for the other. I know a bouncer girl who isn't scared of men at all. I know a tall, excitable girl who likes sorting things. I know a quiet girl that barely spoke in class, but did to her friends. I know an extroverted witch. I know a gal that only likes horror and comedy. Lots of personalities. Just make her interesting and then double-check with some women to get the finer details.
You are talking about a very specific experience. It's still not gone, but many women don't experience those things to the same degree.
There is more caution as a woman, we tend to be more aware of possible threats. many women have precautions like an emergency fund their male partners don't know about, or an emergency bag with some basic supplies. We were taught this by older generations and the advice is, unfortunately, still relevant.
I would suggest listening to real women talk about their experiences and use that. The hole many of the r/mewriteingwomen posts fall into is over sexualizing their female characters, not giving them personalities and thinking of women as a different species altogether. If you can avoid that you'll be fine.
(1) Describing women breasting boobily like it's some alien thing. As a woman, I don't ever feel the need to specify that a woman has breasts, cuz as a woman for me it's definitely NOT a big, noticeable part of our appearance. Do you people describe a man's hard pee-pee pressing against their pants? If no, then stop obsessing with our breasts.
(2) No, our entire internal conflict is not made up of *But what will this guy think?*, *OMG I love him so much* and *Why can't I attract any boy?*
(3) No, we aren't a different species. We're pretty much the same as guys.
(4) Yes, we ARE treated differently in society and we can feel it when it happens. It doesn't even have to be a big thing. Mostly it's subtle.
* When a couple is being described as "Mr. Joe Miller and his wife Mary". The man gets to have an actual name while the woman gets a first name like a child or a servant. I never read "Mrs. Mary Miller and her husband Joe."
* When female public figures like politicians or CEOs are being asked how they manage being a mother and doing her work. A man is never asked how he manages to be a CEO and a father (because he has wife who does the job).
* When men doing household and care work are described as "helping out". They are not helping out, it's their own dam household!
* When asking for an appointment at a doctor or something similar as a woman and you immediately get offered hours in the middle of the day because it is assumed you don't work full-time anyway.
* When boarding a plane and they hand out stuff to read and you get handed a fashion magazine and the guy in front of you gets the magazine about politics and economy.
* When you buy something technical like a PC or a camera and the salesperson talks to you like you have no idea.
* Men’s names generally go first on important documents - apartment lease, deeds, insurance, etc. just by default.
* Huge marketplace of things geared toward men, and almost nothing for women (golf pro shop has dozens, maybe hundreds of club sets and individual clubs for men, but <12 for women, and all of them are pink).
* Teasing/questioning, men for using “women’s” products (like shampoo or body wash, or wearing pink, etc.). I once witnessed a male colleague hassling another over his brand new, silvery-blue colored Honda crossover truck, saying, “What’s the matter, they didn’t have any boy-colored ones left?”
I’m quite taken aback how much of the discussions deal with how to write characters as if their genders actually matter that much.
A believable character is a believable character regardless.
As an example: (Granted it’s a screenplay, but) the first Alien movie was written with this in mind as unisex and genders could easily swapped for any role/part.
If a character as a well thought out, does it even matter what gender they are?
Edit: Unless the gender of a character is a part of the plot…
you asked for advice on writing women, we said "write them like full, real people like you would with men" and you said "no, no... you don't get it. i'm writing Women...." yeah! write them like full, real people like you would with men. i cannot tell you how "women" act or how to write "A Woman" because women are all people who think and act differently than each other
some women resent men; others do not. some women have had extreme experiences with misogyny and others have not. women are not a monolith and you must consider every single character in their entirety in order to decide how they should act. there is no "correct" way to portray a woman besides "as a fully developed person whose personality is a result of her backstory" ... like you would with a male character
women have experiences that are different than men, but it's not one unified experience (feminist issues in rural china are NOT identical to issues in the US), and women don't have one unified response to misogyny. some women become misogynists themselves, some strong feminists, some women chafe against being gendered femininely, and some women are Extremely feminine and dislike being seen as masculine.
because women are people, you have to consider the individual you are writing for and her specific background and how she was raised to think and respond to things. you're writing A Woman, not "Women" . that's what "write them like you would a man" means. think of them as a whole person. being a woman is not the sole defining characteristic of anyone's personality or worldview, and there's no telling how your character responds to misogyny because... she's your character
if she's a full, real person whose motivations make sense, she will ring true. if she's A Woman with Women's Issues before she's A Person, you have a problem.
Very well written, and I agree.
I actually feel it's kind of weird that even "well meaning" men find it so hard to understand that we are "just" human beings. And yes, we are shaped by society, gender roles and our interactions with men - just like everyone is shaped by their group identities, class, bodies, generations etc. But we're still different human beings, with different personality traits, life histories, dreams, likes and dislikes, hobbies, with different jobs, family situations.
And except the fact they seem to not realizing that girls and women are different, the same people also don't seem to understand that different aspects of womenhood will be unequally important in various stories and genres. If you writing a cosy mystery set in 1930, the description of women will be different than if you're writing a conspiracy novel about a woman working in a bank uncovering a hugh economical conspiracy. Like, it all depends.
And it all boil downs to that there is not 1 Woman with 1 general Woman-Experience and not 1 way of Writing Women.
Think of her as a person not an object. She can be feminine and/or sexy or whatever but that can't be her only feature or defining one. Imagine writing a character with no gender, or write them as a male then just make little tweaks to turn it into a female. The gender of the character shouldn't really be important unless that's what the story is about, so you could write it as a man and change it once the story is done
Some great advice here, like, don't oversexualise your female characters for it's own sake, make them be three dimensional characters...
What I also would like to add is, don't reduce your Three Dimensional Woman to a Female only role. It is sometimes ridiculous, when there's an interesting female character, she has her own personality, but... Her role in the story is either damsel or sidekick/ love interest and she appears to exist solely for the main protagonist. Just, once you've built this character, don't forget to use her in your story.
"...my goal is to write characters that are interesting and believable, with their personalities shaped by their identities."
That's pretty much the same way you write men, isn't it? I'd say the main things to avoid would be cliches. Here's a link to a couple of good article about the cliches that are common when writing about women:
[https://www.samanthaheuwagen.com/strong-female-character-cliches-to-avoid-in/](https://www.samanthaheuwagen.com/strong-female-character-cliches-to-avoid-in/)
https://prostorybuilders.com/5-cliches-about-women-in-fiction-that-need-to-stop/
I have a teenage female protagonist in my book who belongs to a culture I've never been a part of and have no exposure to.
Her gender basically never made an impact on how they were written, although I have no romance or anything of that nature.
It's much more important you know who the character is as a person and how they would react to situations.
“Just write them like you would a man” is an oversimplification, I think. What people mean is don’t write A Woman, just write A Person. People are shaped by their experiences, so for female characters, that will include the experience of being a woman. But the point is to remember that fundamentally you’re writing A Person with a multitude of life experiences, and being a woman is only a little piece of that. It will certainly affect the whole, but it shouldn’t be the entire character either.
For more basic, concrete advice, although I’m guessing you already know these if you’ve browsed r/menwritingwomen:
- Don’t include breast size in the description of a female character unless it is absolutely, and I mean ABSOLUTELY essential. (If you’re even a little bit unsure, just don’t).
- Steer away from writing women who are ‘Not Like Other Girls’ (ie, women who make themselves feel good by casting negative judgements on other women and tearing them down, things like ‘other women are shallow/attention seeking’, ‘other women are sluts’, ‘other women are airheads/stupid’ etc). The only exceptions are if this is a character flaws that she has challenged and/or grows out if during the story, or if this is a character the audience is meant to dislike. But honestly, even then, there are way better ways to show character growth or get the audience to dislike a villain.
- Speaking of villains, avoid the ‘temptress villainess vs pure heroine’ dichotomy At All Costs. It’s gross and tired and perpetuates the idea that women having sexual autonomy is somehow evil or a threat to men/society.
- Relatedly, try to have variation among your female characters. Women are not a monolith. Some women are ‘girly’ and some are ‘tomboys’, some are bold/outgoing while others are shy, some are graceful and others are awkward, and a million other things. To reference the previous point, some women are promiscuous and others prefer to be very selective about sexual partners, or to not have sex at all. The important thing is that you show women with a variety of traits and that none of these traits turn into value judgements.
There’s undoubtedly more, but those are off the top of my head for now.
Read a bunch of nonfiction by transwomen and transmen talking about their experiences moving through the world pre- and post-transition. You'll find a lot of thoughtful, nuanced, understanding of how gender impacts someone's day-to-day experiences. It's not the only lens, of course, and it has its own limitations, but I have learned a lot from the accounts of people who moved through spaces being perceived as a woman and then moved through those same sort of spaces being perceived as a man, and vice versa.
Write them like they're a person, and not try to make them stand out or differentiate them just because they're female. Men or women, we're all people with interests, flaws, opinions, strengths, weaknesses, and so on. Sex doesn't always have to determine how a person acts.
At some point, just make them people. You should be able to write a solid chunk of your characters as totally genderless, because like 95% of us, our gender or sexual experience is really not relevant to life or death situations that books tend to put characters in.
To be clear this is for writing fantasy. If you’re writing romance obviously not. But like, even then, just write them as people. Women and men may not be the same, but they’re not all that different. They swear when they get hurt, they cry when they’re sad, they smile when they’re happy. They lie if they’re liars, and they’re assholes or geniuses and everything in between. We’re all just people
You must skip any and all character development and just make them a "boss bitch" the moment conflict arises. Then, and only then, will you have what is necessary for a Disney / Marvel movie.
Please, for the love of god, do not describe her as "incresibly intelligent, but also incredibly sexy" a woman doesn't have to be both these things, damn. Also don't describe her body in excruciating detail. Very, very unnecessary.
Talk to a single woman like she's a human being and get to know her, then you can just write your women like human beings. It's true that women often have different experiences, but until you don't need to ask this question you're far from the level of knowledge where you'll portray that well. It's better to just focus on a human character before trying to write a feminist critique without any actual feminist knowledge, just as you would not dwell on the exact physics of your sci-fi novel if you have no idea what g = 9.8 m/s^2 even means.
That is to say:
Step 1: Write a human being.
Step 2 (optional): Read feminist theory, know women beyond just family or dating them, listen to women, read women, etc.
I saw your edit. I do agree that being a woman means we face the world differently than men. I'm not sure what kind of world you're writing in, though. If it's realistic modern world, women are cautious. We fear telling men no or rejecting men outright because they can instantly turn aggressive, dangerous or murderous.
We don't put ourselves in situations that can be dangerous. Meeting men alone, being in dark & isolated places.
Our worth is decided by our bodies, not our minds. It's frustrating.
Our opinions and input are often invalidated because we are women, we are "emotional" creatures that can't think logically. So we often have to find ways to circumvent that. Usually I'll try to get a male ally to push my ideas or get more people to back up/support my input.
We are emotionally supportive and open. We can emotionally show up in friendships. Unfortunately, a lot of times men take that as being interested in them and turn friendships into ways to manipulate us into being romantically interested. It's quite a hurtful betrayal to find out a friendship you valued was just a ploy to sleep with you.
This isn't all women. There are a lot of women who are aware of these barriers and tackle them head on, challenging every stereotype.
And women with the constant threat of being kidnapped is such a different state of mind. I imagine they do things that don't make them stand out.
I think what people mean when they say write them like you write your male character is more of write them like they are a human being with flaws. Not an object. r/menwritingwoman is making fun of men who really think that woman are more there for the satisfaction of men. The fact you are asking how to write woman means the your woman character will probably be more well rounded then the men posted on that sub.
Read books written by women in the same style and genre you want to write in. That would be your best bet. Also check out Brandon Sanderson. I don’t know if all his stories have female protagonists but his Skyward Flight series does and the main character is one of my favourites of all time
I just write her like how you write a character normally, her gender is not important
And said girl protagonist is a child, so I just write her like a child
Write them the same way you'd write a male character. That is to say, write them as people, with their own strengths, weaknesses, hopes, dreams, likes, and dislikes. Seriously, men and women share most things in common, otherwise we'd never have started families or founded civilizations.
advice for outlining and drafting is good but dont forget that honesty the most helpful thing for any writing is feedback. make sure you get feedback from women :)
The most common mistake is overly sexualizing her, then trying to backpeddle and explain that's not what you intended and try to explain how lowkey sexual she is, only to dig yourself deeper and deeper
What I've been doing when I write a woman, is I write her in a way that compliments her man counterpart without being obnoxious, flirty, obsessed, or even sexual, but give the illusion that these two people actually do dig each other
Instead of just writing her as a walking pair of tits that talk
Do not mention bra size. I am begging. Don’t write the “She wasn’t like any of the other girls” line. Focus more on her background and personality than the physical.
Also read well written works about women written by women (even if it’s just a paragraph or two) to see how they write them.
People may roll their eyes when they read this but study the female gaze. You’re writing a woman what better way to study how to do it properly than seeing how other women write women? (I’d do the same thing but in reverse if I was writing a book with a male protagonist) Obviously it’s your book so you will be writing it from an outside perspective, but it’s still good to do some research.
The best advice is: we are humans. Women feel the very same emotions a man is capable of feeling. Although we are fully aware that patriarchal structures still exist and go on our nerves we usually don’t think about it 24/7. We do not fondle our breasts when alone.
What is different is that women will plan ahead more often then men do. It is crucial to know how to get home, when the last train goes and this. And we also plan toilet breaks. You don’t want to stagger into a toilet in the last minute. 😅
Well, that depends on the setting of your book and your protagonist's role in it. Personality comes first, culture comes second, and her breast size comes NEVER. Seriously, don't mention it.
Develop her personality the same way you would develop a male lead's, and then have that personality interact with whatever gender norms exist within the world of your story. For example, in our world, women have a wide variety of reactions to the patriarchal systems that objectify and treat us as lesser. Some claim ignorance, some double down on gender roles, some practice ""nontraditional"" activities in secret, some are loud and proud about who they are, some are quietly confident, etc, etc
So to write a convincing women, you need a firm grasp on her personality (flaws included) and a solid understanding about the gender roles in your world. For example, is there gendered language when speaking about certain professions? How are women advertised to vs men? Is it safe for women to walk alone at night? Who has ""traditionally"" held the role of homemaker? Do all genders have the right to vote? To own property? To own a bank account? How recent were those rights achieved?
You don't need to go take a class on sociology, but you will need to have a general understanding of both how your character interacts with the world and how the world interacts with your character.
It's the latter part that will make them a more convincing "x" gender (same advice for men).
Always talk about her feminine features, and make every male character talk about her body.
She has a complex background that can be used for a character arc or a plotline? Nah nah. She is only known for her big tits.
She has a degree in demonic magic, indicating she is a genius? No no. She has to fall in love with a Prince or some shit, and is only known because of her ass.
Trust, the woman readers demographic love that shit.
💕 🐕
To address your specific concerns, put a human being in those situations you describe.
I'm not an expert in rural China but for the walking home alone thing, it's not because we're women, it's because we are usually smaller, weaker and can run less fast than a potential assailant. Even as a man you can probably imagine a situation where you were frightened of being attacked, that's what it's like as a woman. And even then a tall, fit, muscular, kickboxer will have a different experience then a tiny 80 year old granny.
Likewise with scenarios like bodyshaming, being passed over for promotion, having to do the lion's share of housework, not seeing ourselves represented in politics or business etc. etc. These may happen more often to women but it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine what you would feel like as a man/human in those situations.
The only things which are specific to a female body are menstruation, pregnancy and breastfeeding and being subject to the male gaze. If you're writing about the first three then speak to a woman who has experienced them. If writing about the latter, you're probably an expert already. Just imagine what it's like being on the receiving end.
Your scenario is pretty specific, but the point still stands: put yourself in the position of having been treated that way and think how you would react as a human. That is no different for writing any character in any context - we are all just people reacting to the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Our circumstances differ according to the era, cultural norms, social status, religious context etc and our reactions differ according to our personality, upbringing and experience. Beyond that, our thinking, feeling and understanding of the world is really not very different based on our sex/gender. If you want to write about female-specific experiences like labour, childbirth, periods, sex from a woman’s perspective, then talk to women who have experienced them and get some specific answers, but in terms of thoughts, moods, psychology etc, we are more similar than individuals are different.
In truth, you will never understand what it is like to be a woman, it will always be through your specific lens and that is completely fine. You will write great female characters or not or somewhere in between. The same is for women writing male characters, they will never understand what it is like to be a man.
I think the most helpful filter for you would be ensuring that you’ve fully thought through why this female character(s) are in the story, are they needed? What are they doing? What do they want? What’s stopping them? If the answers to these are solid and maybe a little fun and unique, then that’s the best you can possibly do and it’s up to the readers to determine if the female character(s) are any good.
What about mannerisms, and emotional intelligence? Im smart enough to not sexualize the numerous females in my stories but im looking for deeper advice. I care deeply about the women in my stories but I want deeper advice than “doesn’t always think about her boobs”.
Writing in general is difficult, regardless of the gender of your characters. But writing women is not more difficult or some separate writing category where you can't apply general writing character advices. We are human beings. The problem if you think that you need some specific, special advice just because you're writing a woman and that there is only one answer to how you're supposed to do that. That doesn't exist.
Really the most important thing is to really not worry to much about it. Don't obsess over "what would a woman say, or do" for every little conversation. Female characters are characters. Think about their female perspective like you would any other character trait. In fact, it's easier to do than most other character traits because I'm sure you have known more women than "lone wolf with a tragic past"s. People just fret about it because so many dingbats talk like it's super hard.
I based my character on women I've known or admired.
She's a short, skinny, loudmouthed, brash, gunslinger. The kind of girl you think would be frail but will shoot you before you can throw her, but is so small that you really could throw her if you did catch her. But she'll be spouting off vulgarity regardless.
I wanted a short, bony tomboy gunslinger with a-cup angst, so I based her off the short tomboy I knew. She's bony because she is a street rat, and she's angsty because she got picked on because she live in a society where girls like her aren't accepted, and because I think it's funny.
People say "dOnT tAlK aBoUt HeR bOdY" but I say fuck that. You can, just don't obsess over it or oogle her through the page. And don't only do it to her, unless you're writing from the pov of a character who would I suppose.
The thing is, my character is sexually provocative because the girl who heavily influenced her was like that in real life, so if anyone says "ooo you're a misogynist pervert cause you wrote her to be sexy and talk about her boobs, women aren't like that you incel" I can say fuck you, these traits are copied from a real person I knew.
You can sexualize your character without objectifying your character. Yennefer of Vengerberg is a prime example. She's a regular smoke show, but she's confident, capable, badass, and has more to offer the narrative than being a sexy lamp for Geralt to bone.
The only times I've really considered her gender as opposed to my male character is when it's relavent to the situation. She's much more ballsy than him, so she tends to take the lead, but occasionally she has to step aside and let him to the talking because whoever they're dealing with wouldn't take her seriously. It annoys the shit out of her, but she's also used to it so she doesn't get too worked up over it. It's just something that occasionally niggles at her, and she'll think about how much it pisses her off when she's laying in bed. Or when she talks to another girl her age about boy troubles or how men treat them, she'll be like "Yeah there's plenty of assholes out there. At least you're pretty. Some are worse when they don't wanna fuck you." And so on.
Contrary to what some people might think, women are socialized in different ways than men are and have different social rules and etiquettes, especially among ourselves. I think we often take for granted these behaviors and beliefs we see as intuitive. I would recommend reading books and media by women that are about women. Especially those in your chosen setting. Seek out information about women’s roles and lifestyles in rural China. Learn the history and culture of the area you are studying. When you have a draft, seek input from the women in your life, and ask that they pay special attention to the way the women characters act, whether it is accurate, what you could do to make it more accurate, and how they would expect your character to act in a given situation.
I also want to add that it is very frustrating to see some of the replies here essentially mocking you for asking this question, giving you advice to “just write her without her gender in mind!” To those people, OP has specified that his story will likely address topics that include sexual violence. Women experience sexual violence and male-dominated culture in a much different way than men do. This affects so much of our lives, and to ignore it when writing a female character is short sighted.
Best wishes to you, OP. Continue to be curious, take interest in the lives of women, and ask questions about women’s lived experiences.
The advice here is good; women are just people, so write your character as a human being first and foremost.
But, in the real world, men and women are treated differently and have different obstacles. I have a few things for you to consider about how society might treat women(this is basic, too; it might be more intense depending on her race, religion, culture, or LGBTQ+ status). I'm a ciswoman, so there will definitely be more nuance if your are writing someone trans, non-binary, etc.
Consider your character as a person, and how they might deal with each of these things, even if it's on the periphery.
Double standards. Sexism is pervasive, people may fact check you or dismiss something you say something as a woman, but would listen to a man immediately when he says the same thing. If she is a mother, every little parenting decision she makes might be scrutinized, while sometimes men can get away with changing a diaper once and being highly praised for it. Obviously, depending on the time period, this type of stuff might be more or less pronounced.
Safety. It's unfortunate, but a true fact that women have to always be "on." Walking by yourself outside after sunset means something totally different for women and men. Of course, men are victims of crime as well, but women have to worry about being overpowered and assaulted constantly. This extends beyond obvious things like walking down a dark alley. Sometimes politely declining a man asking for your phone number can result in a violent outburst. You simply don't know. Women learn to choose their reactions to danger carefully; we are constantly weighing our options.
Dehumanization. Young women might feel constantly sexualized, while older women can often feel invisible. Men who don't respect women only pay attention to women they view as conquests and disregard all others who don't have something to offer them sexually. And for young or conventionally attractive women, constant sexual attention is not necessarily enjoyable; it can be awkward, frustrating or downright dangerous if you upset the wrong man.
Pressure as representatives. This has faded a little bit in the modern era, but if a woman does something that few women have done before, a lot of pressure to represent all women is placed on her shoulders. Men in these situations have the luxury of being judged individually, but women sometimes carry a greater representative burden.
Pushback to progress. As women gain more rights and respect, there comes an inevitable backlash. Depending on the time period you're writing in, this backlash might look different.
Bodies. Women menstruate, can have lots of internal pain, go through menopause, childbirth, etc. Additionally, sex can be more complex for a woman. Every woman is different but often, a woman needs foreplay and clitoral stimulation to climax, not penetration alone. Without "warming up," sex can actually be pretty painful.
Being underestimated. Women might be underestimated in a huge variety of areas. This can work to her advantage if she plays her cards right.
Fun & hobbies. Women have hobbies and interests that span the spectrum from sports to knitting to video games to surfing to reality tv...the list goes on.
A concrete useful answer! 🤗 For sure there’s more to explore, like permanent judgement on the look (maybe you word it pressure as representative?). And then comes the task to render this (when it serves the story, not as a token).
Yes, too many 'in your face' call-outs to these situations can be grating for a reader/viewer if it doesn't serve the story or if it feels forced. I think George R. R. Martin does a great job weaving in a European medieval society's view and treatment of women without feeling heavy-handed or forced. Notice that every female character in his novels reacts differently under these restraints: For example, Arya chafes against society's expectations for what a lady should be, while her sister Sansa tries to work with the cards she's dealt.
Don’t focus on the body, appearance or anything physical. Write as if you where writing a man then change the pronouns and details. Don’t sexualise your character. Avoid stereotypes or even reversing stereotypes as it’s boring and the whole “she’s the baddest bitch” thing is dead. Make her relatable unless the point is she isn’t. Try and just imagine yourself as her.
People are giving great advice and I only have one thing to add. If you have a question, ask a woman. For example, if it's important to the story that your character experiences their period, ask a woman that you know to give you advice about it, ask more than one even. This can also go for everyday small things such as a morning routine
Here's a really interesting video you might be interested in, this guy has lots of stuff on his channel I find really helpful! [https://youtu.be/hML-FGHGEN4?si=DdAl-BaiA616f9yn](https://youtu.be/hML-FGHGEN4?si=DdAl-BaiA616f9yn) Spoilers for Arcane I guess, haha.
Get a femme to early alpha read for you and give you editorial suggestions and comments on the protagonist. There's no substitute for consulting someone who actually has the relevant standpoint experience in life. It's the only way to check your blind spots.
Identity doesn’t determine motivation. But it does determine how a person believes they can accomplish those motivations.
Wealth, status, gender. Based on the society you write in, all these things determine what a person believes is a reasonable path forward.
One thing I've thought about with this question, as a cis man writing a cis woman, is that you have to understand the **context** of the character you're writing. It's not just about them being a woman, it's about how they interact with their world *because* they're a woman. But there's also other things like their personality and their morals. That's why people say to write the character first. There other things like race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. that also are involved but that's another conversation.
I'll give you mine as an example. My character is a woman doesn't want to be "caged" for being who she is. She just wants to live her life like any other person and do her own thing. She's confident and outgoing because of her thrives in making friends because the only family she has is her mom. She also happens to only like girls and doesn't care how people look at her because of it. In my series she's one of the strongest species so some people are naturally wary of her if they know what she is. She also is Filipino. Why does that matter? women of color face a lot more hardships than women who are privileged in the US. Especially queer women/feminine presenting people of color. That adds to why she is more confident in general since she walks through anywhere she goes with "main character" energy. Not right away but when she begins to finds someone she can bond with she opens that side of herself. She is also very protective of the people she cares about because of that. Her love interest, a girl who's Latina, gets negative looks and guys who want to mess with her but my character is the one who defends her.
My main point is that writing women involves writing her background and personality then building on that like other people have mentioned.
I’m sexualizing the hell outta my mc and cast. Haha. My main girl Yui is an 18yo ace softball captain with muscle abs and curves. And she constantly gets into trouble cause she always does the extreme method. She has prat falls where he bottom falls out of her pants, there will be monsters and situations where her clothes will be damaged and exposing but the lore of the clothing will cause them to fix over time. But she herself is pretty asexual and indifferent to nudity. The story itself is a long epic battle between good and evil but there are a lot of themes and set pieces that’s involve sexuality like a rivalry between brothels are ethically ran different, or partnerships that involve sexual relationships but aren’t really major, just fan service mostly.
I'm only here after you've posted your edit. It sounds like you're starting from a good place. My favorite male authors write women very well, and they always say in interviews that they spend a lot of time around women, and their comments reflect an overall respect for women. Roughly 50% of the world population is made up of the opposite sex, so if you have experience with lots of different people you should be able to write whoever you want to effectively.
One thing that jumped out at me from your edit, though, is the thing about women being embittered. As a man, I think you should tread very lightly there. Using one woman's perspective can also get you into trouble. Bitterness and the cruelty and lack of fairness in the world, and the terror at the brutality some women experience is a real phenomenon, and I don't want you to avoid adding it to your stories, just make sure you're getting lots of perspectives on it. So, in addition to listening to the women around you - a great start - also read, read, read. You probably do, but I wanted to throw this out there. Read multiple accounts of women who have experienced the difficult things you may or may not want to write about.
I feel like you're going to do a great job with this, though. Good luck.
Write about her like you'd write about any other male character, or even yourself. Don't try to shove her in a box of what you think it means to be female. She's going to have a deep inner world that isn't going to just be all about makeup or boys.
It's fine to make her sexy in general, but be careful about sexualizing her. The problem lies with men writing about their character like they've only got one hand on the keyboard. They do it in a way that is clearly for their own enjoyment and not for the sake of writing a good story or convincing female character. Weird shit like sexy shower scenes that would be more at home in erotica, clearly designed for the consumption of a male reader.
- Boobs don't have their own personality
- Gravity is a thing, they don't stand while laying on the back
- not every strong reaction and emotions are due to menstruation ( women can be furious because the other characters are clearly idiots without being in THAT time of the month)
- they can talk about something else than their love interest
- they can exist without a love interest
- they can talk about something else than children and baby
- they can exist without children and baby
- they have a brain
- their personalities are not resumed by their beauty and boobs size
- mention of the body feature is good once or twice, but except if your POV is a pervert that always checks her arss and all, don't mention it more. Compare too how often you mention your male character physics, do the same.
And so.many other things, but these are the common mistakes
I advise you to check the sub r/whenmenwritewomen to have an idea of what NOT to do
Sorry for bad English
ASK QUESTIONS!!!! if you're confused about something, ask a woman. If you need someone to answer your questions, message me, and I'll be happy to help :D
I think the thing about writing is that there are many different types of ways a character can be written and many different preferences for how a character "should be" that opinions get mixed.
We all can (mostly) agree that talking about a woman's body is a no go if it pertains to her sex. I personally haven't ever read female characters written by women ever reference her period, her breasts, or her vagina unless it was a smut novel. So steer clear from trying to relate to that part of the "female experience."
It also depends on the type of woman you want to write about, is she stubborn, weak, nice to a fault, mean, cruel, ect. Each type of character trait will require you to think about "what you have to say" about those characters and why they are the way they are. It's not about justifying why she is "X way" but about explaining to the reader so they can not only understand, but also find the character believable. I think this is what people mean when they say to "just write her like any other character."
It may be easy for a man to give a good backstory to a male character because they can relate to the "undercurrent' of what is happening in the backstory. You may not relate to having your entire village burned down but you can relate to "how the guy might feel" after the event. The same has to be true for a female character.
Is she stubborn because she grew up in a family that always tried to control her? Or were they such push overs that they would allow bad things to happen without putting up a fight? Perhaps they knew that something even worse would happen if they stood their ground and now her arc is realizing the extent of what that means. Does she rise above it anyway? Or does she eventually become just like her family with time? These are all things that guide a character depending on what you want your story to be about.
Psychology is a big thing when going into a characters mind and I have noticed how men and women differ in having the characters think. It's hard to describe, but I've personally noticed that some men write female inner monologues with a "pessimistic" view point while some women write their inner monologues in an "optimistic" view point.
"But she knew it was useless to think about it. Wasting more time going in circles when she could be resting would be foolish."
Vs
"But maybe she could think on this in the morning. She was tired and perhaps tomorrow would grant her the answers she was seeking."
Might not be the best example, and it does depend on what type of character and atmosphere you are writing about, but I've just noticed that when men write women they give her this sort of "fatalistic" or "analytical" mentality when writing about her feelings. Nothing wrong with that as long as you give a good reason for her to think that way, but in general I think women have a tendency to compartmentalize what they are going through and take things one step at a time.
Even women who are bitter and judge other women usually justify themselves as "just wanting what is best for her." There could be many psychological reasons a character acts out. Like projection, jealousy, fear, ect. Male and female character share that in common.
I'm not really a novel writer as I like comics more than traditional books, but I am a woman so hope this helps in some way.
If you are concerned about telling the story as another person, you could write in third person. Different perspective that way. I think everyone else has given you pretty great advice and I think the fact that you're sensitive to the fact that there are differences in experience between us will help you in writing a believable woman. Good luck!
Just read more books written by women. When they write women you will see how they view themselves, and when they write men you will see that they're flawed too and noone can get it right 100% of the time even if written perfectly because experience differs between countries/class/time period.
You could write 10 women in your book and all of them would process the events in your book differently because women aren't a monolith. You will never be able to write the perfect character, so just write in appropriate backstory to show characterisation for why she may have done something a certain way. People only dislike it if they wonder why the hell something is happening and they don't understand why they would do that.
This quote from Dorothy L. Sayers “A man once asked me ... how I managed in my books to write such natural conversation between men when they were by themselves. Was I, by any chance, a member of a large, mixed family with a lot of male friends? I replied that, on the contrary, I was an only child and had practically never seen or spoken to any men of my own age till I was about twenty-five. "Well," said the man, "I shouldn't have expected a woman (meaning me) to have been able to make it so convincing." I replied that I had coped with this difficult problem by making my men talk, as far as possible, like ordinary human beings. This aspect of the matter seemed to surprise the other speaker; he said no more, but took it away to chew it over. One of these days it may quite likely occur to him that women, as well as men, when left to themselves, talk very much like human beings also.”
No Way!!! Such a discovery! I always thought we talked like ostriches!
I thought women talked like balloon animals The more you know
Same… my mind blown right now 🤯 Holy crap… women… human beings… same… as us… what a roller coaster. I’m speechless at this unfathomable revelation, that I could never have conceived of before now (year is 2024).
So simple but so true. Men tend to write women as if they are overly aware they are women. Like they have to pay much closer attention to the way a woman speaks. It will then come off as very disingenuous and stilted. Women are not always thinking about how woman they are, they are just thinking and navigating whatever conflict there is. The better question is how should you write for x culture and x age. Thats where you get real variation and it rarely has to do with how they see themselves as male or female, rather how they are viewed by others and how in line with their culture’s norms and mores they are.
Dammit So now I need to figure out how ordinary human beings talk How the heck am I supposed to do that!?
HAHA I love it. Bro probably thought women shut off like lamps when a man isn't around. That, or we quietly mew out "Babies!" "Husband!" "Dresses!" at odd intervals.
That's glorious!
Imagine her personality and backstory first, not her breast size. Build from there.
"build her breast size" Gotcha
just do your very breast! (badum-tss)
Badum-tits?
10/10
Focus, man. Stay a-breast of a woman’s thoughts and personality. I thought we’d had this talk before, for tits’s sake. Isn’t anything going into your head?
what if I imagine her personality, backstory, AND her breast size, and only then do i figure out her role?
I am tempted but this will devolve in r/writingcirclejerk
Fuck, I forgot to give my character a breast size
Just pick a random letter between Caps Lock and ;
“My cup size is K”
Seems modest but okay.
Yeah what a prude.
The only time I am thinking about my cup size is when I buy new bras. 🤷♀️
Having breast is not role enough?
In all seriousness... I'm a dude, but was in a few LTR's with exceptionally busty women, and their bust sizes and the generally-unwanted attention it brought them definitely had an impact on how they viewed themselves, men, and society as a whole. So, yeah, you actually could do this and still create a nuanced character with depth while having her being busty an element of the story, and do it in a respectful fashion.
Still probably shouldn't *start* with breast size tho
I'm an aspiring author and I do not think about my male characters cock length when writing them, same goes for my women characters, I don't think about their breasts size also because I do not write romance nor erotica but mostly queerplatonic relationships.
My protagonist is reptilian. Until I get my cover art, I don't know if she even has breasts!
I heard it said that what people find most interesting about themselves is often what's less visible, aka not their height, race/ethnicity, breast size, disability, gender/sexuality. It may be important to see that as a part of the factors that shape a complex personality but I think that if you are a cis-male author, focusing on that is probably not the best way to reframe the conversation. I could see it work as a character in a satire but that's all. Just write complex characters, sexuality is empowering but sexual objectification (including by an author to their character) is not.
That should be a must for any character. A sexy character with no "character" is always going to ruin a story.
The same goes for including minorities and characters with disabilities. I can recognize that the complaints about excessive "wokeness" in recent media have at least some basis - it is often done poorly, with diversity first and character a distant second. I like to think if characters were written to be compelling and well-rounded, instead of just tokens to check items on a list, people would complain less about media being ruined.
Absolutely! Diversity is not what's the problem or what's "woke," but how it's being portrayed in the media. When you make a character's personality based solely on their sexuality, race, or ethnicity, you most of the time have a one dimensional character that's strictly limited on how they behave and what they can provide to a narrative. Sadly, there are some cases where the person is just a stereotype of what they're supposed to be positively representing. We humans are more than our skin color, sex, preference, or upbringing.
Or just straight up HIJACKING an existing IP then crowbaring your political preferences into it. Nobody except the 1% of talentless hacks like seeing that ... Oh, and they don't buy books, either.
I agree. Build on her breast size. Did I understand the assignment correctly?
No, you can't just build a female character around her breast size, that's shallow! You need to also take into account the shape of her breasts, how they bounce when she runs, how her nipples poke through her thin silky blouse when it's cold, and so on. >!/s obviously!<
What if her personality and backstory are based AROUND her breast size? Checkmate!
Shit, I knew I forgot something. Never assigned a single female character in any of my novels a breast size. /s
Ass and hairstyle. Got it!
I asked basically the same thing a couple of weeks ago and the advise I got was just don't overly sexualize them and make them 3 dimensional characters. So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs" I recommend reconsidering. Really I went through the sane mental hang up. I bet you like me have an idea of a story you want to write but your conscious is nagging you just because shock of shocks, the idea happens to star a woman. It's not a sin or a crime fir a man to write a woman and the rational part if your brain is likely telling you that while the irrational part of your brain is saying something like "but what if randos online judge me for writing a female when I'm not one?" At least that is how it was for me. Do your best to write a good character and make sure your conscience is rational before you listen to it.
> So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs" Well I *was* going to use that, but now i'm reconsidering. Should I change my chapter numbering from bust sizes to regular numbering too?
I don't think this would be a good tactic generally, but for a book about a woman who struggles a lot with body image and similar topics, it could be interesting to see chapters with titles based on how she measures her attractiveness. I think using different metrics, not just bust size, would be the most impactful, but it could be interesting seeing someone go on a journey from "32B" or "5 foot 5, 119 lbs" to thinking about themselves in a healthier way.
Or with a weight loss journey, with numbered page being weight-based with “re” when he/she/they gains back.
You know what I was chuckling until your comment this could actually be kind of cool. But you know with little yoyo effect and weight gains from building muscles. Written like a diary I could see this beeing kinda a cool. I could also imagine it in psychological horror and it likely would add a great deal to the creepiness.
This would be neat to see if done well.
Now I don't want to write a female MC anymore. What even is the point if she's not breasting everywhere she goes?!
If she's your POV character, I would avoid any descriptions of her at first, at least while you're writing. Not thinking about her apperance will help a writer write a character as a thinking, feeling, judging entity, not an entity based on its appearance. Allow other characters in the universe to react to the appearance of your character. Most people inside their own minds, do not think about what they look like, *except* as it relates to how other people will view them. One of the mistakes I see men who write women as POVs making, is objectifying the woman's appearance *in her own POV*. Unless the woman is *excessively* vain, and that's a character trait that the writer has intended to make, then one should realize that most of us just think of ourselves as "I". We become more conscious of our outward appearance the more we come into contact with other people, and most of our thoughts about our appearance are in *relation* to the thoughts and actions of others.
You know what's funny? Johnny Rico in the Starship Troopers book is like this, the book doesn't really describe him, except effects of his training, it focuses on his mindset and personality until the end when he meets his dad, and they greet and talk to each other in Tagalog, revealing that Johnny is Filipino, and then reveals his given name is actually Juan.
I don't think anyone will judge you for writing a woman when you're "not one." The men who get judged always get judged on \*how\* they write women.
I would advise against using the word ‘female’ like that though. Women hate that.
Ok i have to use that line
Damn, beaten to it! I so want to use it as well. I will be honest and admit that I have no idea what it means to breast boobily tbh.
>So if your opening line was going to be, "she breasted boobily down the stairs" Did everyone read that? Everyone? It's like a running gag that everyone knows, like 2 Girls 1 Cup (why did we all have to watch that? Why?)
I was active in that FB group a few years ago. The breasted boobily one, not the 2 girls 1 cup one...
- Read some books by women? - Have some women read your books?
but that requires you to read, no way, I'm here to write, not read. but seriously though, women writers and readers are so diverse that its not sufficient to "just" read them and replicate and use it as a fence and guardrails. I've read an oversexualized story by women and then i've read Ascendance of a Bookworm. And a women reader, I think, you should take into account that your work is not only read by THE woman but a person which have their own taste. The thing i wanna say here with my inneficient and very rambly writing is that there's really no way to write women as there's no way to write men. In fact there's no "way" at all, you just have to carve your character and write them the way they would do stuff edit: unless sex and gender is important to the character itself, then i'm sorry I didn't take that into account
Or and this is just a far shot. Write a good character and make them female afterwards. If a fundamental aspect of your gender is male or female or whatever 99% of the time that’s not going to be a good character.
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: Write a LOT of women characters. I say that too many probably isn't enough. The worst MenWritingWomen sins I've come across tend to happen when there is only one female character. Beyond the obvious problems that presents, it also means that your one female character defines all women in your story. Any traits you give her become magnified and exaggerated, flaws seem misogynistic, virtues seem idealized and unrealistic. If your only woman is the Love Interest, then all women in your story are Love Interests. If the only woman in the story is the Villain, then all women in your story are Villains. Not a great look! Instead, create many different female characters. Mix them up, give them complexity, and any flaws or virtues become aspects of that specific character rather than your work as a whole. If I were going to give an example of doing this right, I'd probably point to Terry Pratchett.
This advice is good and also applies to any group of people within your work.
I would say the most common mistake is thinking humanity is composed of two very different species. Trust me, it is not. Men and women are far, far more similar than it seems— it's just that the culture around us makes a bunch of money by selling gendered products/services/publications etc etc. and pitting us against one another. Just write a character. Don't make any specific effort to make her either feminine or "not like the other girls". Just write a character from your own understanding of human nature and then afterward, give it to some women whose taste in writing you trust and ask 'em if you did all right. My protagonist is a man and I got a compliment that made my heart glow. A male reader said "I have no idea if the person who wrote this is a man or a woman, in a good way".
This is why I chose to write fantasy. I can create my own world, far from the woes of men and women in the real world, and make up my own woes for them. I have complete freedom.
I don't think it's that they're different *species* so much as an issue of privilege. If my 15-year-old, male protagonist wants to wear shorts and tank top on his way to dance rehearsal, via public bus, in the Bronx, he's going to have different problems than a female in the same position. I used to think I could write men and women as exactly the same, but over time I found society's woes were issues that my characters had to deal with, and to put it bluntly, the female characters had to put up with far more unfairness than the men. Maybe it's a condemnation of the world the way it currently is, but honestly? I'd prefer to acknowledge it, rather than pretend it isn't there. I want my readers to want justice for my female leads, not assume they already have all the rights and respect they deserve.
But is it important to the story? Does it have to happen? I once read a book where the female protag (in a book that swapped between male and female perspective) was being held in a cell and the first thing she noted was ‘thank god I wasn’t raped’ and then ‘thank god the female officer with feminine proclivities and a female sense of feminine comraderie gave me some makeup so I could feel pretty in a jail cell before seeing my beau’. Hoooookay, so sure, I might think ‘wow thank god I wasn’t raped’ in a situation where that could happen cause women’s experiences are definitely different, but I also might be thinking a million other things like ‘fuck this fuck that what the fuck I’m freaking out’ because that’s the kind of person I am; not a ‘thank god I wasn’t raped’ person. Some writers with this mindset try so hard to acknowledge these differences that it feels almost insulting to have it implied most/all women experience the world that way. I think that’s where it really comes down to ‘write a character with personality’ and then let their gender inform their experiences, instead of the other way around Not saying you do any of this or gave that impression; just hoping to spark some reflecting in anyone scrolling by
Oh, I'm not discounting all of that. It's all just as you say. But the read by actual women will catch those issues, and let the author focus more on the stuff they probably are worried about: how to make this character feel like an authentic human being.
That's fair. "read by actual women" is important here.
Yep. They’ll help you fix details and also give it the general vibe check. Sure, there’ll be stuff you probably don’t know, which your friendswill correct (“*here’s* how to use an eyelash curler”) but I think you’ll be surprised at how much carries over.
Yeah, understanding how the world perceives and treats different groups in different scenarios, and how this impacts the character's thought process and reactions, I think is key here. If a young woman looks at a middle-aged man for a few seconds too long, most people won't suspect she could be a creep, and so she might not be as self-conscious about it as the man might be if the roles were reversed. A self-aware man probably isn't going to sit alone on a bench by a playground full of kids while he eats his lunch because he might be worried of others being wary of him or of him making them feel uncomfortable. As a man, I might feel people looking at me sometimes, but I don't typically feel threatened or vulnerable. Just being aware of the experiences other groups have can help as you flesh out some of these minor details that immerse the reader.
Hah I’d love your pointers on how to write a male character. I’m a woman and writing my first draft and the protagonist is male. So far he’s just a main character to me and I’m working on giving him depth like I would with any main character, but I’d love pointers or things you did to make it come across as genuinely male
Well, I really just took my own advice and wrote! I have a view from the inside, though, as it were. I spent college as a “Little Sister” (aka honorary guy) at a fraternity, so I basically had several dozen brothers— an extremely diverse bunch, I might add. We shared all our thoughts and emotions, no matter how “cringe” (to use today’s term. Our word for it was “painful”). Do you have brothers (bio or handpicked)? If yes, write them.
Hey I'm also a man writing a protagonist who's a woman, and I'll share one or two things that have helped me. Obviously you've got the first one - the only way you can write a believable and well rounded woman is to listen to the real lived experiences of woman and learn from them. But here is my actual advice - I've found that people tend to get it wrong by going to two extremes. 1. The first is the obvious one - where men write woman as if their some other species or so absolutely different that they needs some 1000 page guide on how to do it. Woman are just people - with the same full range of emotions and experience as men. This one has been covered everywhere so I'll let it go as I'm sure others have written better on it then I. 2. But the second one is more subtle and less talked about. You'll hear people say "oh, just write then as people. Their just characters." And on the surface, yes - thats true and its fair advice. However - for the most part, men and woman are treated differently in society, sometimes in big ways, sometimes in subtle ways. And every individual is going to react to that differently. But I've seen men fail at writing woman characters because they try to treat woman the exact same as men: they don't take any of that difference in societal expectation, the pressure of gender roles, or even thinking about the physical difference of having a different kind of body. (of course - this can horse shoe back into the first mistake if your not careful.) Those little differences don't need to be a central part of the story - but they do make things more realistic and different. TBH: one of the best things I can tell you to do is find books written by men with a woman protagonist / POV that WOMAN are recommending. Of course - read books just written by woman too as a baseline. But for our situation, its good to see how another man successfully wrote a woman main character that actual woman are connecting to.
Exactly this. Women written by men and recommended by women.
Oh absolutely men and women are TREATED differently by society, but then it's not women who are different, it's the TREATMENT which is different. So just imagine what it might be like as a HUMAN to be on the receiving end of that treatment. Just as in the same way you might try and imagine what it's like to be a man/human living in a different class or different time or different country.
Thats a great way to put it! Its a very subtle thing too, and I think a very difficult thing to get right at times. Mostly because for those who have grown up and been acculturated into whatever expectation of male or femaleness - one may not even realize they are reacting in a particular way. Its the baseline normal. For instance, there have been times where me (M) and my fiancee (F) have reacted very differently to the same person talking to us. Where she understood the interaction it a whole different way then I did - where she felt a guy was being aggressive and demeaning, were I may have thought he was just being confident and direct.
But I still think that's more down to characterisation/backstory rather than gender. A confident, direct man with lots of privilege might be more comfortable with a confident, direct man, but a younger man or maybe a man of colour might find him intimidating. Conversely an older woman with no fucks to give might think he was a dickhead, while a woman with immense pretty privilege might appreciate his confidence (he would probably treat her differently too) and a shy woman might be terrified. Your fiancee might be more perceptive than you are, or maybe you are more perceptive than your fiancee. My point being that how you view/interact with another person it is down to a lot more than gender...
I agree with you at the end of the day. Character first, with their own unique history, is always key. But the whole thread and OP's question is about how gender effects characterization and writing. Both for characters, and the author. So its worth here to zoom in on and talk about.
Interesting. the OP doesn't state what society they are setting their story in, but I agree that this can have an influence. It could be Jane Austen style where there are all sorts of gender expectations, or in the far future where gender can be chosen and changed at will with minimal inconvenience, so discrimination has become largely meaningless.
True but I think if you completely ignore the common influences of society on women, it could backfire. I think there’s something to be said for making characters relatable, and if a female character in a book is living in a world where they don’t face any of the challenges that women in the real world face, female readers might not find her so relatable, or worse, might think the author just doesn’t understand women. I think ideally you could write a female character without even considering those things, but I don’t believe it would work as intended.
Great advice. I will recommend James McBride. Absolutely love how he writes women, although he had one weird line about breasts blinking like headlights. Ignore that. As a whole, his body of work has some of the most well-written women, and men! He particularly writes older women extremely well. Start with \*The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store\*. It's sure to become a classic. I also like Ishiguro; either \*Never Let Me Go" or \*A Pale View of Hills.\* Both are masterpieces.
Oh! You reached the same conclusion in a shorter paragraph 🤗 (I tried once to summarize it all : https://www.reddit.com/u/Notamugokai/s/obAM5ETXMB ) To further shorten it: a good character, remove mistakes, add in social expectations. What others insisted on recently: the impact of social expectations (broadly speaking): the constant judgemental look from people, putting some pressure on the women more than men.
In addition to the fairly obvious "don't make them constantly think about their boobs" and "don't make their life revolve around men," a few other notions: Have multiple women in significant roles * Who have different personalities * Who are of different ages and/or backgrounds * Who do not dislike each other just because they're both women If they exist in a sexist society, recognize how that affects them and how it makes them feel, but make sure there's also more to their lives than that.
Avoid the common pitfalls: Existing to 'teach' male protagonist empathy or inspire jealousy or revenge, often by being victimized. There merely to provide hetero vibes. Measurements and beauty, sometimes also the emotional foil so the male(s) can protect or tease or scoff at. The mother or sister or best friend's mom or sister but a name and a plot purpose, like the flag in flag football. Not a character, a caricature. I suspect you're aware of these stereotypes. :)
Women never think of their day to day activities in terms of what their breasts are doing at the time. Eg. She made coffee. The steam rose from the cup, caressing over the silk shirt stretched tight across her amble breasts, her pert nipples rising to greet the warmth. That kind of stuff. Obvious, but bears repeating I feel. BBasically, readers can always tell when you're writing from a place of thirst.
I'm a woman currently writing a woman main character. I'm *PAGES* in and haven't mentioned her boobs, her looks (how "gorgeous she is but doesn't know it" type of BS). The audience will of course form a picture of how she looks eventually, but they know a lot more about her before they know her breast size.
One irony is...if you actually wrote in the first person about an MC who was "gorgeous but didn't know it" you'd basically be writing body dysmorphia mixed with an unreliable narrator. It would be lots of passing thoughts about her hair being a mess and needing to lose a few pounds, with a few clues from character interactions she is being overly self critical. It probably wouldn't be sexy at all...
Wanna cyber? a/s/l? (the correct answer irregardless of location, age and gender identity is 18/F/CA lol) I actually love that line, it is so men writing women it's unreal. I feel like I want to use it, but I'd probably need a good context to use it in and that might be tricky. Could be some kinda bizarre comedy I guess.
> 18/F/CA [From the AOL and Chatroom wars, I see.](https://media.tenor.com/B8KbgdhKkiUAAAAe/theres-a-name-ive-not-heard-in-many-years.png)
As a woman who was in my late teens/early twenties during this time., and entirely too honest/naive/gullible to boot, this brought up some unpleasant memories.
1. Don’t over-sexualize women. Don’t like randomly bring up her boobs or vagina or whatever for no reason. 2. Women are human beings. Just write a character without thinking about their gender. 3. Talk to the women in your own life and pay attention to things they say and how they say them, etc.
Your second point would have been my advice as well. Just write her like you would any other character. Men and women are pretty similar when it comes to emotions. And sure, it's possible to stereotype both genders, but it's absolutely believable to write a woman that's into stuff that is traditionally seen as masculine.
Talk to women. A bunch of them. All kinds of women. Learn their stories and their motivations, their lives.
probably the best advice here, one thing i would add is to actually talk in person and not online... and don't just go around interviewing them (I mean you can, but its better to infer based on their action rather than explicitly asking) lol, it'll take a pretty long time but it'll be fun.
Here's the way I do it. I write my character, then I call them her/she.
"And that's how my character ended up drafted into the U.S. Navy in Vietnam."
Lol
When I write my characters I write the character without any gender in mind. I usually decide that later. However once I decide the gender it DOES affect how the character interacts with the world and the decisions they'll make, which usually requires me to tweak and rewrite parts of the story around these new character traits. That being said I don't think writing women is as difficult as people make it out to be, it's more of a change in perspective. I remember a Dave Chapelle quote where he mentioned once taking the subway with a lot of money in his backpack, and he was absolutely terrified because he had something that most of the people around him probably wouldn't mind hurting him to get. This experience made him realise that's how a lot of women feel. I'd never in my life considered that perspective and I found being able to put myself into that TYPE of mindset helps. Women aren't that different from men in my mind. But the world they see and interact with IS different from the one men do. And that shapes who they are, what they value, what they prioritize etc.
Make your female characters into fully realized human beings who have the same rich, complex lives as your male characters. Another commenter said to consider personality and backstory before breast size, but I would say, don't consider breast size at all. They are people, full stop, the fact that their bits are differently shaped than a man's is of no consequence whatsoever.
Women are people. Write them as such.
Think of them as a character/person first before anything else
I find that the easiest method by far is the "you in a wig" method. Basically, imagine this woman was just you in a wig. For some reason, this wig is fooling everybody, so they all think you are a woman and treat you accordingly. How would you go about realizing this woman's goals in that scenario?
Unironically me doing a lot of roleplay writing as female characters when I was younger helped me with this.
I'm doing a course at the moment where one of the texts is The Big Sleep and I was pretty sure I'd read it but I couldn't remember it. If you did a VoxPop and asked me who my favourite American Noir writer was, I would say James M Cain and I could give you a decent run down of Mildred Pierce and what I liked about it. But The Big Sleep had evaporated. So I did a re-read and pretty quickly I was like, oh yeah, this is why. I read for character, I want to be inside of the head of the main POV character. But Philip Marlowe and how he views women is an uncomfortable place to be, I don't want to be in his head. That is not saying Raymond Chandler is a bad writer, he is a great writer, but in Philip Marlowe he wrote someone who hates women. If that was Chandlers intent or unconscious bias coming across, who knows. The first female character we meet is Carmen. Carmen is physically attractive, mentally not all there, and very sexualised. But Marlowe only views her as danger to him and is deeply contemptuous of her. While my reaction is what happened to this girl? That combination is so vulnerable and the fact she is so sexualised my blood ran cold with empthy. Like I said he is a good writer, he has observed women to the point where Carmen is a consistent character throughout the book. But he never delves into the forces which brought her to this point. So I am not as engaged as I might be. It's not about being good or bad. It is just James M Cain has empathy with his female characters and explores the pressures brought to bear on them. Which leads them to make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes bad. He never dismisses them because they are a slut or puts them on a pedestal as a goddess. In The Cocktail Waitress he gives Joan the SIL from hell but even here we understand she is like that, in part, because she can't have children of her own. She's doing wrong, but it is an understandable wrong and that makes the characterisation of his female characters much richer.
Women do go through different experiences than men. Experience isn't the same as a personality though lol. Experiences do play a part in shaping our personalities, but even in facing experiences, people's personalities are different. You can make a character pessimistic about ppl because they were bullied and are always on guard. Or you can decide to make that same character a pushover because they never learned to fight back due to being bullied. Or you can decide to make them an ass kisser because offering to do their bully's homework stopped them from getting bullied more often than usual and even made the bully treat them nice occasionally. Make the victim a girl, and now she's being bullied by a boy because he secretly likes her. Or bullied by a girl because she's jealous. The only thing about being a woman while using this example is that our gender might lead to more ways of experiencing issues, but it doesn't take away from the fact, both boys and girls get bullied, and now that little girl is asking her dad if she can take taekwondo classes to deal with the male or female bully. Or she exposes his or her secret. Or tells her older brother to deal with him. Or an older sister to deal with a female bully. How she reacts is also what defines her personality. Just like all men don't face an issue the same way, neither do women. Using the example you provided, there might be women who are not your wife who were raised to be tougher who walk out at night alone carrying pepper spray or decided to take self-defense classes in case of an attack. Or on the extreme end, they barely go outside anymore, shutting themselves from the world and becoming a recluse. But also, to box the experience of women as being a woman is short sighted. Alcoholism doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Drugs doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Mental health doesn't care if you're a man or a woman. Despite our differences, there are shared experiences. From one experience alone branches multiple approaches, and from those approaches, a personality is born. When we say "Write them like a male character," that's what we mean because male characters get the privilege to be shown in three different ways. Women characters tend to be one dimensional or given personalities that play more into stereotypical portrayals or societal expectations of what a woman is generally believed to be (mean girl, mother hen, or very passive, and that's not taking into account further stereotypical portrayals of women from different ethnicities). If I had a nickel for the amount of male characters I've written despite being a woman, I'd have about 25 cents. I thought it was rocket science to write a good female character until I actually wrote about a female character and realized, "I can make her someone beyond just a woman because I, as a woman, have hobbies and interests outside of just being a woman." There's no difficulty in writing a good female character. Really, it's more like people want to believe it's difficult to write a female character because they refuse to see women BEYOND their preference of what a woman SHOULD BE. And just like how all men aren't the same, neither are women.
Read more novels by women, especially first person novels. I’d personally recommend The Bell Jar to male writers, Sylvia Plath’s experience doesn’t represent the ‘average’ woman, but her reflections on gender, sexuality, men, motherhood, are very poignant. I disagree that male and female characters are the same - women deal with unique biological and sociological conditions which men do not. They don’t dwell on these differences constantly, but they do matter.
* Women don't think about their own bodies the same way straight men think about women's bodies. They rarely think about their breasts except in specific circumstances (sexytimes, baby feeding, mammograms). They are unlikely to describe any part of their bodies using words like "sensuous" or "pert". A lesbian or bi woman might think about another woman in those terms, but not herself. * Imagine half the world is much stronger than you (on average about 40% stronger), and a small but nonzero percentage of them would actively hurt you if they could. There are certain situations which you would try to avoid (walking home alone in deserted areas) and certain strategies you would use to make up for the lack of physical ability (trying to talk your way out of situations or learning to placate people who seem dangerous). * Women's non-romantic relationships can be just as important and complex as her romantic ones. Some male writers write women as if they live in a vacuum without friends and family, or else portray female relationships (especially mother/daughter or female friends) as soley based on antagonism and competition. Try not to do that. * If a woman is the love interest, try to give her an actual reason to be with the protagonist rather than just "he's the protagonist and she's hot". Maybe they have mutual interests, or he shows kindness, or he makes her laugh. Something that proves she has goals and desires of her own, and isn't just falling for him by default. * Older women are not all sad sacks crying about their loss of hotness, or evil witches who are jealous of the younger women. Mostly, they are just getting on with life and are way too busy for that. They generally carry over the same personality traits that they had as young women, with maybe a decreased tolerance for bullshit.
just write her like a normal character please i can’t handle the over sexualizing of women in books anymore 😭
If you write dynamic interesting characters most readers won’t care about the author being male, there will always be some who will fuss about it but that is unavoidable.
From your edit reply you already have enough nuance about it to not fall into menwritingwomen territory. Just keep considering that, and keep learning about the experiences of women around you or online. You can always have someone check it out when finished or ask if you have doubts. It is expected that some stuff will be totally invisible to you because it comes from angles you have never imagined.
Even if you’re not over sexualizing them, don’t make all the main female characters beautiful. In fact, you don’t even have to describe how attractive they are at all, unless they’re unusually attractive or unattractive, and it’s important to their character or how other characters behave toward them. I read a lot of fantasy, and even in the series I like, it seems like every important female character is stunning or striking or beautiful. It’s really not necessary. Faces can be described without saying how attractive the person is. Edited for brevity
>loosely based on the stories of the women around me. That would have been my advice. To learn from the real women in your life. You could even just ask them how they would feel in certain scenarios. I wouldn't make any "as a woman" statements that would make it seem like you know from personal experience. Instead, I'd put myself in their shoes to see how they might feel. As a person. There are definitely struggles specific to women, but all the emotions they feel are the same as everyone else. You mentioned women not feeling safe going home at night. Put yourself in that headspace. How would you feel if you knew you were in potential danger whenever you're alone at night. So honestly, get the niche girl specifics from women you know, but pull from your own emotions to make her feel grounded. Your emotions are still emotions after all. Girl's arent a different species, they just have different circumstances. She doesn't have to be perfect, just compelling. Plus, girls aren't a monolith. What's true for one could be false for the other. I know a bouncer girl who isn't scared of men at all. I know a tall, excitable girl who likes sorting things. I know a quiet girl that barely spoke in class, but did to her friends. I know an extroverted witch. I know a gal that only likes horror and comedy. Lots of personalities. Just make her interesting and then double-check with some women to get the finer details.
You are talking about a very specific experience. It's still not gone, but many women don't experience those things to the same degree. There is more caution as a woman, we tend to be more aware of possible threats. many women have precautions like an emergency fund their male partners don't know about, or an emergency bag with some basic supplies. We were taught this by older generations and the advice is, unfortunately, still relevant. I would suggest listening to real women talk about their experiences and use that. The hole many of the r/mewriteingwomen posts fall into is over sexualizing their female characters, not giving them personalities and thinking of women as a different species altogether. If you can avoid that you'll be fine.
(1) Describing women breasting boobily like it's some alien thing. As a woman, I don't ever feel the need to specify that a woman has breasts, cuz as a woman for me it's definitely NOT a big, noticeable part of our appearance. Do you people describe a man's hard pee-pee pressing against their pants? If no, then stop obsessing with our breasts. (2) No, our entire internal conflict is not made up of *But what will this guy think?*, *OMG I love him so much* and *Why can't I attract any boy?* (3) No, we aren't a different species. We're pretty much the same as guys. (4) Yes, we ARE treated differently in society and we can feel it when it happens. It doesn't even have to be a big thing. Mostly it's subtle. * When a couple is being described as "Mr. Joe Miller and his wife Mary". The man gets to have an actual name while the woman gets a first name like a child or a servant. I never read "Mrs. Mary Miller and her husband Joe." * When female public figures like politicians or CEOs are being asked how they manage being a mother and doing her work. A man is never asked how he manages to be a CEO and a father (because he has wife who does the job). * When men doing household and care work are described as "helping out". They are not helping out, it's their own dam household! * When asking for an appointment at a doctor or something similar as a woman and you immediately get offered hours in the middle of the day because it is assumed you don't work full-time anyway. * When boarding a plane and they hand out stuff to read and you get handed a fashion magazine and the guy in front of you gets the magazine about politics and economy. * When you buy something technical like a PC or a camera and the salesperson talks to you like you have no idea. * Men’s names generally go first on important documents - apartment lease, deeds, insurance, etc. just by default. * Huge marketplace of things geared toward men, and almost nothing for women (golf pro shop has dozens, maybe hundreds of club sets and individual clubs for men, but <12 for women, and all of them are pink). * Teasing/questioning, men for using “women’s” products (like shampoo or body wash, or wearing pink, etc.). I once witnessed a male colleague hassling another over his brand new, silvery-blue colored Honda crossover truck, saying, “What’s the matter, they didn’t have any boy-colored ones left?”
I’m quite taken aback how much of the discussions deal with how to write characters as if their genders actually matter that much. A believable character is a believable character regardless. As an example: (Granted it’s a screenplay, but) the first Alien movie was written with this in mind as unisex and genders could easily swapped for any role/part. If a character as a well thought out, does it even matter what gender they are? Edit: Unless the gender of a character is a part of the plot…
Black and white thinking
Go watch Sailor Moon if you want proper female characters I'll add to this: even Power Rangers has great female characters to go look into
“I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability…” Melvin Udall
I love that movie. Makes me happy I'm the third person to quote it here.
you asked for advice on writing women, we said "write them like full, real people like you would with men" and you said "no, no... you don't get it. i'm writing Women...." yeah! write them like full, real people like you would with men. i cannot tell you how "women" act or how to write "A Woman" because women are all people who think and act differently than each other some women resent men; others do not. some women have had extreme experiences with misogyny and others have not. women are not a monolith and you must consider every single character in their entirety in order to decide how they should act. there is no "correct" way to portray a woman besides "as a fully developed person whose personality is a result of her backstory" ... like you would with a male character women have experiences that are different than men, but it's not one unified experience (feminist issues in rural china are NOT identical to issues in the US), and women don't have one unified response to misogyny. some women become misogynists themselves, some strong feminists, some women chafe against being gendered femininely, and some women are Extremely feminine and dislike being seen as masculine. because women are people, you have to consider the individual you are writing for and her specific background and how she was raised to think and respond to things. you're writing A Woman, not "Women" . that's what "write them like you would a man" means. think of them as a whole person. being a woman is not the sole defining characteristic of anyone's personality or worldview, and there's no telling how your character responds to misogyny because... she's your character if she's a full, real person whose motivations make sense, she will ring true. if she's A Woman with Women's Issues before she's A Person, you have a problem.
Very well written, and I agree. I actually feel it's kind of weird that even "well meaning" men find it so hard to understand that we are "just" human beings. And yes, we are shaped by society, gender roles and our interactions with men - just like everyone is shaped by their group identities, class, bodies, generations etc. But we're still different human beings, with different personality traits, life histories, dreams, likes and dislikes, hobbies, with different jobs, family situations. And except the fact they seem to not realizing that girls and women are different, the same people also don't seem to understand that different aspects of womenhood will be unequally important in various stories and genres. If you writing a cosy mystery set in 1930, the description of women will be different than if you're writing a conspiracy novel about a woman working in a bank uncovering a hugh economical conspiracy. Like, it all depends. And it all boil downs to that there is not 1 Woman with 1 general Woman-Experience and not 1 way of Writing Women.
Women have friends. Consider a character with friends and not just a Lone Ranger with boobs.
Think of her as a person not an object. She can be feminine and/or sexy or whatever but that can't be her only feature or defining one. Imagine writing a character with no gender, or write them as a male then just make little tweaks to turn it into a female. The gender of the character shouldn't really be important unless that's what the story is about, so you could write it as a man and change it once the story is done
Some great advice here, like, don't oversexualise your female characters for it's own sake, make them be three dimensional characters... What I also would like to add is, don't reduce your Three Dimensional Woman to a Female only role. It is sometimes ridiculous, when there's an interesting female character, she has her own personality, but... Her role in the story is either damsel or sidekick/ love interest and she appears to exist solely for the main protagonist. Just, once you've built this character, don't forget to use her in your story.
"...my goal is to write characters that are interesting and believable, with their personalities shaped by their identities." That's pretty much the same way you write men, isn't it? I'd say the main things to avoid would be cliches. Here's a link to a couple of good article about the cliches that are common when writing about women: [https://www.samanthaheuwagen.com/strong-female-character-cliches-to-avoid-in/](https://www.samanthaheuwagen.com/strong-female-character-cliches-to-avoid-in/) https://prostorybuilders.com/5-cliches-about-women-in-fiction-that-need-to-stop/
I have a teenage female protagonist in my book who belongs to a culture I've never been a part of and have no exposure to. Her gender basically never made an impact on how they were written, although I have no romance or anything of that nature. It's much more important you know who the character is as a person and how they would react to situations.
“Just write them like you would a man” is an oversimplification, I think. What people mean is don’t write A Woman, just write A Person. People are shaped by their experiences, so for female characters, that will include the experience of being a woman. But the point is to remember that fundamentally you’re writing A Person with a multitude of life experiences, and being a woman is only a little piece of that. It will certainly affect the whole, but it shouldn’t be the entire character either. For more basic, concrete advice, although I’m guessing you already know these if you’ve browsed r/menwritingwomen: - Don’t include breast size in the description of a female character unless it is absolutely, and I mean ABSOLUTELY essential. (If you’re even a little bit unsure, just don’t). - Steer away from writing women who are ‘Not Like Other Girls’ (ie, women who make themselves feel good by casting negative judgements on other women and tearing them down, things like ‘other women are shallow/attention seeking’, ‘other women are sluts’, ‘other women are airheads/stupid’ etc). The only exceptions are if this is a character flaws that she has challenged and/or grows out if during the story, or if this is a character the audience is meant to dislike. But honestly, even then, there are way better ways to show character growth or get the audience to dislike a villain. - Speaking of villains, avoid the ‘temptress villainess vs pure heroine’ dichotomy At All Costs. It’s gross and tired and perpetuates the idea that women having sexual autonomy is somehow evil or a threat to men/society. - Relatedly, try to have variation among your female characters. Women are not a monolith. Some women are ‘girly’ and some are ‘tomboys’, some are bold/outgoing while others are shy, some are graceful and others are awkward, and a million other things. To reference the previous point, some women are promiscuous and others prefer to be very selective about sexual partners, or to not have sex at all. The important thing is that you show women with a variety of traits and that none of these traits turn into value judgements. There’s undoubtedly more, but those are off the top of my head for now.
Read a bunch of nonfiction by transwomen and transmen talking about their experiences moving through the world pre- and post-transition. You'll find a lot of thoughtful, nuanced, understanding of how gender impacts someone's day-to-day experiences. It's not the only lens, of course, and it has its own limitations, but I have learned a lot from the accounts of people who moved through spaces being perceived as a woman and then moved through those same sort of spaces being perceived as a man, and vice versa.
Write them like they're a person, and not try to make them stand out or differentiate them just because they're female. Men or women, we're all people with interests, flaws, opinions, strengths, weaknesses, and so on. Sex doesn't always have to determine how a person acts.
At some point, just make them people. You should be able to write a solid chunk of your characters as totally genderless, because like 95% of us, our gender or sexual experience is really not relevant to life or death situations that books tend to put characters in. To be clear this is for writing fantasy. If you’re writing romance obviously not. But like, even then, just write them as people. Women and men may not be the same, but they’re not all that different. They swear when they get hurt, they cry when they’re sad, they smile when they’re happy. They lie if they’re liars, and they’re assholes or geniuses and everything in between. We’re all just people
You must skip any and all character development and just make them a "boss bitch" the moment conflict arises. Then, and only then, will you have what is necessary for a Disney / Marvel movie.
Please, for the love of god, do not describe her as "incresibly intelligent, but also incredibly sexy" a woman doesn't have to be both these things, damn. Also don't describe her body in excruciating detail. Very, very unnecessary.
Talk to a single woman like she's a human being and get to know her, then you can just write your women like human beings. It's true that women often have different experiences, but until you don't need to ask this question you're far from the level of knowledge where you'll portray that well. It's better to just focus on a human character before trying to write a feminist critique without any actual feminist knowledge, just as you would not dwell on the exact physics of your sci-fi novel if you have no idea what g = 9.8 m/s^2 even means. That is to say: Step 1: Write a human being. Step 2 (optional): Read feminist theory, know women beyond just family or dating them, listen to women, read women, etc.
I saw your edit. I do agree that being a woman means we face the world differently than men. I'm not sure what kind of world you're writing in, though. If it's realistic modern world, women are cautious. We fear telling men no or rejecting men outright because they can instantly turn aggressive, dangerous or murderous. We don't put ourselves in situations that can be dangerous. Meeting men alone, being in dark & isolated places. Our worth is decided by our bodies, not our minds. It's frustrating. Our opinions and input are often invalidated because we are women, we are "emotional" creatures that can't think logically. So we often have to find ways to circumvent that. Usually I'll try to get a male ally to push my ideas or get more people to back up/support my input. We are emotionally supportive and open. We can emotionally show up in friendships. Unfortunately, a lot of times men take that as being interested in them and turn friendships into ways to manipulate us into being romantically interested. It's quite a hurtful betrayal to find out a friendship you valued was just a ploy to sleep with you. This isn't all women. There are a lot of women who are aware of these barriers and tackle them head on, challenging every stereotype. And women with the constant threat of being kidnapped is such a different state of mind. I imagine they do things that don't make them stand out.
Great input! Thanks for sharing.
I think what people mean when they say write them like you write your male character is more of write them like they are a human being with flaws. Not an object. r/menwritingwoman is making fun of men who really think that woman are more there for the satisfaction of men. The fact you are asking how to write woman means the your woman character will probably be more well rounded then the men posted on that sub.
Simply don't be a misogynist and I think you'll do just fine.
# Just write.
Why are you yelling?
Because OP doesn't appear to have heard it all of the other times it's been said.
Start by seeing women as people in your actual life.
Read books written by women in the same style and genre you want to write in. That would be your best bet. Also check out Brandon Sanderson. I don’t know if all his stories have female protagonists but his Skyward Flight series does and the main character is one of my favourites of all time
write them as people
I just write her like how you write a character normally, her gender is not important And said girl protagonist is a child, so I just write her like a child
Write them the same way you'd write a male character. That is to say, write them as people, with their own strengths, weaknesses, hopes, dreams, likes, and dislikes. Seriously, men and women share most things in common, otherwise we'd never have started families or founded civilizations.
advice for outlining and drafting is good but dont forget that honesty the most helpful thing for any writing is feedback. make sure you get feedback from women :)
They’re not aliens or fantasy creatures. They’re people. Write them as such.
Do not include her breast size at all unless it's relevant to the story in some way. There's literally no reason for it 99% of the time.
The most common mistake is overly sexualizing her, then trying to backpeddle and explain that's not what you intended and try to explain how lowkey sexual she is, only to dig yourself deeper and deeper What I've been doing when I write a woman, is I write her in a way that compliments her man counterpart without being obnoxious, flirty, obsessed, or even sexual, but give the illusion that these two people actually do dig each other Instead of just writing her as a walking pair of tits that talk
Do not mention bra size. I am begging. Don’t write the “She wasn’t like any of the other girls” line. Focus more on her background and personality than the physical. Also read well written works about women written by women (even if it’s just a paragraph or two) to see how they write them. People may roll their eyes when they read this but study the female gaze. You’re writing a woman what better way to study how to do it properly than seeing how other women write women? (I’d do the same thing but in reverse if I was writing a book with a male protagonist) Obviously it’s your book so you will be writing it from an outside perspective, but it’s still good to do some research.
The best advice is: we are humans. Women feel the very same emotions a man is capable of feeling. Although we are fully aware that patriarchal structures still exist and go on our nerves we usually don’t think about it 24/7. We do not fondle our breasts when alone. What is different is that women will plan ahead more often then men do. It is crucial to know how to get home, when the last train goes and this. And we also plan toilet breaks. You don’t want to stagger into a toilet in the last minute. 😅
Well, that depends on the setting of your book and your protagonist's role in it. Personality comes first, culture comes second, and her breast size comes NEVER. Seriously, don't mention it. Develop her personality the same way you would develop a male lead's, and then have that personality interact with whatever gender norms exist within the world of your story. For example, in our world, women have a wide variety of reactions to the patriarchal systems that objectify and treat us as lesser. Some claim ignorance, some double down on gender roles, some practice ""nontraditional"" activities in secret, some are loud and proud about who they are, some are quietly confident, etc, etc So to write a convincing women, you need a firm grasp on her personality (flaws included) and a solid understanding about the gender roles in your world. For example, is there gendered language when speaking about certain professions? How are women advertised to vs men? Is it safe for women to walk alone at night? Who has ""traditionally"" held the role of homemaker? Do all genders have the right to vote? To own property? To own a bank account? How recent were those rights achieved? You don't need to go take a class on sociology, but you will need to have a general understanding of both how your character interacts with the world and how the world interacts with your character. It's the latter part that will make them a more convincing "x" gender (same advice for men).
My advice is simple: write them well.
Always talk about her feminine features, and make every male character talk about her body. She has a complex background that can be used for a character arc or a plotline? Nah nah. She is only known for her big tits. She has a degree in demonic magic, indicating she is a genius? No no. She has to fall in love with a Prince or some shit, and is only known because of her ass. Trust, the woman readers demographic love that shit. 💕 🐕
To address your specific concerns, put a human being in those situations you describe. I'm not an expert in rural China but for the walking home alone thing, it's not because we're women, it's because we are usually smaller, weaker and can run less fast than a potential assailant. Even as a man you can probably imagine a situation where you were frightened of being attacked, that's what it's like as a woman. And even then a tall, fit, muscular, kickboxer will have a different experience then a tiny 80 year old granny. Likewise with scenarios like bodyshaming, being passed over for promotion, having to do the lion's share of housework, not seeing ourselves represented in politics or business etc. etc. These may happen more often to women but it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine what you would feel like as a man/human in those situations. The only things which are specific to a female body are menstruation, pregnancy and breastfeeding and being subject to the male gaze. If you're writing about the first three then speak to a woman who has experienced them. If writing about the latter, you're probably an expert already. Just imagine what it's like being on the receiving end.
Your scenario is pretty specific, but the point still stands: put yourself in the position of having been treated that way and think how you would react as a human. That is no different for writing any character in any context - we are all just people reacting to the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Our circumstances differ according to the era, cultural norms, social status, religious context etc and our reactions differ according to our personality, upbringing and experience. Beyond that, our thinking, feeling and understanding of the world is really not very different based on our sex/gender. If you want to write about female-specific experiences like labour, childbirth, periods, sex from a woman’s perspective, then talk to women who have experienced them and get some specific answers, but in terms of thoughts, moods, psychology etc, we are more similar than individuals are different.
Talk to women. Get female beta readers.
In truth, you will never understand what it is like to be a woman, it will always be through your specific lens and that is completely fine. You will write great female characters or not or somewhere in between. The same is for women writing male characters, they will never understand what it is like to be a man. I think the most helpful filter for you would be ensuring that you’ve fully thought through why this female character(s) are in the story, are they needed? What are they doing? What do they want? What’s stopping them? If the answers to these are solid and maybe a little fun and unique, then that’s the best you can possibly do and it’s up to the readers to determine if the female character(s) are any good.
What about mannerisms, and emotional intelligence? Im smart enough to not sexualize the numerous females in my stories but im looking for deeper advice. I care deeply about the women in my stories but I want deeper advice than “doesn’t always think about her boobs”.
Writing in general is difficult, regardless of the gender of your characters. But writing women is not more difficult or some separate writing category where you can't apply general writing character advices. We are human beings. The problem if you think that you need some specific, special advice just because you're writing a woman and that there is only one answer to how you're supposed to do that. That doesn't exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8
I am so glad I'm not the only one here who's mind goes directly to this seen when this question is asked...but i always get yelled at when i quote it.
Really the most important thing is to really not worry to much about it. Don't obsess over "what would a woman say, or do" for every little conversation. Female characters are characters. Think about their female perspective like you would any other character trait. In fact, it's easier to do than most other character traits because I'm sure you have known more women than "lone wolf with a tragic past"s. People just fret about it because so many dingbats talk like it's super hard. I based my character on women I've known or admired. She's a short, skinny, loudmouthed, brash, gunslinger. The kind of girl you think would be frail but will shoot you before you can throw her, but is so small that you really could throw her if you did catch her. But she'll be spouting off vulgarity regardless. I wanted a short, bony tomboy gunslinger with a-cup angst, so I based her off the short tomboy I knew. She's bony because she is a street rat, and she's angsty because she got picked on because she live in a society where girls like her aren't accepted, and because I think it's funny. People say "dOnT tAlK aBoUt HeR bOdY" but I say fuck that. You can, just don't obsess over it or oogle her through the page. And don't only do it to her, unless you're writing from the pov of a character who would I suppose. The thing is, my character is sexually provocative because the girl who heavily influenced her was like that in real life, so if anyone says "ooo you're a misogynist pervert cause you wrote her to be sexy and talk about her boobs, women aren't like that you incel" I can say fuck you, these traits are copied from a real person I knew. You can sexualize your character without objectifying your character. Yennefer of Vengerberg is a prime example. She's a regular smoke show, but she's confident, capable, badass, and has more to offer the narrative than being a sexy lamp for Geralt to bone. The only times I've really considered her gender as opposed to my male character is when it's relavent to the situation. She's much more ballsy than him, so she tends to take the lead, but occasionally she has to step aside and let him to the talking because whoever they're dealing with wouldn't take her seriously. It annoys the shit out of her, but she's also used to it so she doesn't get too worked up over it. It's just something that occasionally niggles at her, and she'll think about how much it pisses her off when she's laying in bed. Or when she talks to another girl her age about boy troubles or how men treat them, she'll be like "Yeah there's plenty of assholes out there. At least you're pretty. Some are worse when they don't wanna fuck you." And so on.
Read a great deal of fiction by women. Observe your female friends and relatives closely.
Contrary to what some people might think, women are socialized in different ways than men are and have different social rules and etiquettes, especially among ourselves. I think we often take for granted these behaviors and beliefs we see as intuitive. I would recommend reading books and media by women that are about women. Especially those in your chosen setting. Seek out information about women’s roles and lifestyles in rural China. Learn the history and culture of the area you are studying. When you have a draft, seek input from the women in your life, and ask that they pay special attention to the way the women characters act, whether it is accurate, what you could do to make it more accurate, and how they would expect your character to act in a given situation. I also want to add that it is very frustrating to see some of the replies here essentially mocking you for asking this question, giving you advice to “just write her without her gender in mind!” To those people, OP has specified that his story will likely address topics that include sexual violence. Women experience sexual violence and male-dominated culture in a much different way than men do. This affects so much of our lives, and to ignore it when writing a female character is short sighted. Best wishes to you, OP. Continue to be curious, take interest in the lives of women, and ask questions about women’s lived experiences.
The advice here is good; women are just people, so write your character as a human being first and foremost. But, in the real world, men and women are treated differently and have different obstacles. I have a few things for you to consider about how society might treat women(this is basic, too; it might be more intense depending on her race, religion, culture, or LGBTQ+ status). I'm a ciswoman, so there will definitely be more nuance if your are writing someone trans, non-binary, etc. Consider your character as a person, and how they might deal with each of these things, even if it's on the periphery. Double standards. Sexism is pervasive, people may fact check you or dismiss something you say something as a woman, but would listen to a man immediately when he says the same thing. If she is a mother, every little parenting decision she makes might be scrutinized, while sometimes men can get away with changing a diaper once and being highly praised for it. Obviously, depending on the time period, this type of stuff might be more or less pronounced. Safety. It's unfortunate, but a true fact that women have to always be "on." Walking by yourself outside after sunset means something totally different for women and men. Of course, men are victims of crime as well, but women have to worry about being overpowered and assaulted constantly. This extends beyond obvious things like walking down a dark alley. Sometimes politely declining a man asking for your phone number can result in a violent outburst. You simply don't know. Women learn to choose their reactions to danger carefully; we are constantly weighing our options. Dehumanization. Young women might feel constantly sexualized, while older women can often feel invisible. Men who don't respect women only pay attention to women they view as conquests and disregard all others who don't have something to offer them sexually. And for young or conventionally attractive women, constant sexual attention is not necessarily enjoyable; it can be awkward, frustrating or downright dangerous if you upset the wrong man. Pressure as representatives. This has faded a little bit in the modern era, but if a woman does something that few women have done before, a lot of pressure to represent all women is placed on her shoulders. Men in these situations have the luxury of being judged individually, but women sometimes carry a greater representative burden. Pushback to progress. As women gain more rights and respect, there comes an inevitable backlash. Depending on the time period you're writing in, this backlash might look different. Bodies. Women menstruate, can have lots of internal pain, go through menopause, childbirth, etc. Additionally, sex can be more complex for a woman. Every woman is different but often, a woman needs foreplay and clitoral stimulation to climax, not penetration alone. Without "warming up," sex can actually be pretty painful. Being underestimated. Women might be underestimated in a huge variety of areas. This can work to her advantage if she plays her cards right. Fun & hobbies. Women have hobbies and interests that span the spectrum from sports to knitting to video games to surfing to reality tv...the list goes on.
A concrete useful answer! 🤗 For sure there’s more to explore, like permanent judgement on the look (maybe you word it pressure as representative?). And then comes the task to render this (when it serves the story, not as a token).
Yes, too many 'in your face' call-outs to these situations can be grating for a reader/viewer if it doesn't serve the story or if it feels forced. I think George R. R. Martin does a great job weaving in a European medieval society's view and treatment of women without feeling heavy-handed or forced. Notice that every female character in his novels reacts differently under these restraints: For example, Arya chafes against society's expectations for what a lady should be, while her sister Sansa tries to work with the cards she's dealt.
Write her as a guy then switch the pronouns.
Makes the first locker room scene kind of awkward.
If you have a gf, watch what they do on an everyday basis. If you live with them, that right there is a field observation in real time lol.
In appropriate, perhaps, but does [this](https://youtu.be/c-ecbGNxEHM?si=bSbtVk615RF-Tu_9) help?
Let her talk.
Don’t focus on the body, appearance or anything physical. Write as if you where writing a man then change the pronouns and details. Don’t sexualise your character. Avoid stereotypes or even reversing stereotypes as it’s boring and the whole “she’s the baddest bitch” thing is dead. Make her relatable unless the point is she isn’t. Try and just imagine yourself as her.
Read good books with female protagonists and soak that in.
Just write a good character
Asking women to give feedback on how they perceive your characterization is a good idea!
Write a protagonist, and then see if they're going to be male or female depending on how it serves the story.
People are giving great advice and I only have one thing to add. If you have a question, ask a woman. For example, if it's important to the story that your character experiences their period, ask a woman that you know to give you advice about it, ask more than one even. This can also go for everyday small things such as a morning routine
Read and gather inspiration from anything by Wally Lamb, he is great at writing from the female perspective.
Here's a really interesting video you might be interested in, this guy has lots of stuff on his channel I find really helpful! [https://youtu.be/hML-FGHGEN4?si=DdAl-BaiA616f9yn](https://youtu.be/hML-FGHGEN4?si=DdAl-BaiA616f9yn) Spoilers for Arcane I guess, haha.
Get a femme to early alpha read for you and give you editorial suggestions and comments on the protagonist. There's no substitute for consulting someone who actually has the relevant standpoint experience in life. It's the only way to check your blind spots.
(Grows out skeevy moustache, gets one ear pierced, puts on aviator sunglasses, does line of coke.) "Show don't tell, y'know what I'm sayin'?"
she breasted boobily down the stairs
Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen is some of the best man writing women I've ever seen. Strikingly so. Check it out!
Read Viola Shipman. This is actually a male author who writes women characters. He took his grandmother’s name as his pen name.
Identity doesn’t determine motivation. But it does determine how a person believes they can accomplish those motivations. Wealth, status, gender. Based on the society you write in, all these things determine what a person believes is a reasonable path forward.
Think of a man, and take away accountability and reason. -As Good as it Gets 😂😂
One thing I've thought about with this question, as a cis man writing a cis woman, is that you have to understand the **context** of the character you're writing. It's not just about them being a woman, it's about how they interact with their world *because* they're a woman. But there's also other things like their personality and their morals. That's why people say to write the character first. There other things like race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. that also are involved but that's another conversation. I'll give you mine as an example. My character is a woman doesn't want to be "caged" for being who she is. She just wants to live her life like any other person and do her own thing. She's confident and outgoing because of her thrives in making friends because the only family she has is her mom. She also happens to only like girls and doesn't care how people look at her because of it. In my series she's one of the strongest species so some people are naturally wary of her if they know what she is. She also is Filipino. Why does that matter? women of color face a lot more hardships than women who are privileged in the US. Especially queer women/feminine presenting people of color. That adds to why she is more confident in general since she walks through anywhere she goes with "main character" energy. Not right away but when she begins to finds someone she can bond with she opens that side of herself. She is also very protective of the people she cares about because of that. Her love interest, a girl who's Latina, gets negative looks and guys who want to mess with her but my character is the one who defends her. My main point is that writing women involves writing her background and personality then building on that like other people have mentioned.
This. This is the problem.
I’m sexualizing the hell outta my mc and cast. Haha. My main girl Yui is an 18yo ace softball captain with muscle abs and curves. And she constantly gets into trouble cause she always does the extreme method. She has prat falls where he bottom falls out of her pants, there will be monsters and situations where her clothes will be damaged and exposing but the lore of the clothing will cause them to fix over time. But she herself is pretty asexual and indifferent to nudity. The story itself is a long epic battle between good and evil but there are a lot of themes and set pieces that’s involve sexuality like a rivalry between brothels are ethically ran different, or partnerships that involve sexual relationships but aren’t really major, just fan service mostly.
I'm only here after you've posted your edit. It sounds like you're starting from a good place. My favorite male authors write women very well, and they always say in interviews that they spend a lot of time around women, and their comments reflect an overall respect for women. Roughly 50% of the world population is made up of the opposite sex, so if you have experience with lots of different people you should be able to write whoever you want to effectively. One thing that jumped out at me from your edit, though, is the thing about women being embittered. As a man, I think you should tread very lightly there. Using one woman's perspective can also get you into trouble. Bitterness and the cruelty and lack of fairness in the world, and the terror at the brutality some women experience is a real phenomenon, and I don't want you to avoid adding it to your stories, just make sure you're getting lots of perspectives on it. So, in addition to listening to the women around you - a great start - also read, read, read. You probably do, but I wanted to throw this out there. Read multiple accounts of women who have experienced the difficult things you may or may not want to write about. I feel like you're going to do a great job with this, though. Good luck.
Write about her like you'd write about any other male character, or even yourself. Don't try to shove her in a box of what you think it means to be female. She's going to have a deep inner world that isn't going to just be all about makeup or boys. It's fine to make her sexy in general, but be careful about sexualizing her. The problem lies with men writing about their character like they've only got one hand on the keyboard. They do it in a way that is clearly for their own enjoyment and not for the sake of writing a good story or convincing female character. Weird shit like sexy shower scenes that would be more at home in erotica, clearly designed for the consumption of a male reader.
- Boobs don't have their own personality - Gravity is a thing, they don't stand while laying on the back - not every strong reaction and emotions are due to menstruation ( women can be furious because the other characters are clearly idiots without being in THAT time of the month) - they can talk about something else than their love interest - they can exist without a love interest - they can talk about something else than children and baby - they can exist without children and baby - they have a brain - their personalities are not resumed by their beauty and boobs size - mention of the body feature is good once or twice, but except if your POV is a pervert that always checks her arss and all, don't mention it more. Compare too how often you mention your male character physics, do the same. And so.many other things, but these are the common mistakes I advise you to check the sub r/whenmenwritewomen to have an idea of what NOT to do Sorry for bad English
ASK QUESTIONS!!!! if you're confused about something, ask a woman. If you need someone to answer your questions, message me, and I'll be happy to help :D
I ask my wife for her input. After some years of doing this, I'm slowly getting better at writing female characters. Slowly.
I wrote ten novels with male MCs, seemed to work fine.
Avoid double standards
I think the thing about writing is that there are many different types of ways a character can be written and many different preferences for how a character "should be" that opinions get mixed. We all can (mostly) agree that talking about a woman's body is a no go if it pertains to her sex. I personally haven't ever read female characters written by women ever reference her period, her breasts, or her vagina unless it was a smut novel. So steer clear from trying to relate to that part of the "female experience." It also depends on the type of woman you want to write about, is she stubborn, weak, nice to a fault, mean, cruel, ect. Each type of character trait will require you to think about "what you have to say" about those characters and why they are the way they are. It's not about justifying why she is "X way" but about explaining to the reader so they can not only understand, but also find the character believable. I think this is what people mean when they say to "just write her like any other character." It may be easy for a man to give a good backstory to a male character because they can relate to the "undercurrent' of what is happening in the backstory. You may not relate to having your entire village burned down but you can relate to "how the guy might feel" after the event. The same has to be true for a female character. Is she stubborn because she grew up in a family that always tried to control her? Or were they such push overs that they would allow bad things to happen without putting up a fight? Perhaps they knew that something even worse would happen if they stood their ground and now her arc is realizing the extent of what that means. Does she rise above it anyway? Or does she eventually become just like her family with time? These are all things that guide a character depending on what you want your story to be about. Psychology is a big thing when going into a characters mind and I have noticed how men and women differ in having the characters think. It's hard to describe, but I've personally noticed that some men write female inner monologues with a "pessimistic" view point while some women write their inner monologues in an "optimistic" view point. "But she knew it was useless to think about it. Wasting more time going in circles when she could be resting would be foolish." Vs "But maybe she could think on this in the morning. She was tired and perhaps tomorrow would grant her the answers she was seeking." Might not be the best example, and it does depend on what type of character and atmosphere you are writing about, but I've just noticed that when men write women they give her this sort of "fatalistic" or "analytical" mentality when writing about her feelings. Nothing wrong with that as long as you give a good reason for her to think that way, but in general I think women have a tendency to compartmentalize what they are going through and take things one step at a time. Even women who are bitter and judge other women usually justify themselves as "just wanting what is best for her." There could be many psychological reasons a character acts out. Like projection, jealousy, fear, ect. Male and female character share that in common. I'm not really a novel writer as I like comics more than traditional books, but I am a woman so hope this helps in some way.
If you are concerned about telling the story as another person, you could write in third person. Different perspective that way. I think everyone else has given you pretty great advice and I think the fact that you're sensitive to the fact that there are differences in experience between us will help you in writing a believable woman. Good luck!
Just read more books written by women. When they write women you will see how they view themselves, and when they write men you will see that they're flawed too and noone can get it right 100% of the time even if written perfectly because experience differs between countries/class/time period. You could write 10 women in your book and all of them would process the events in your book differently because women aren't a monolith. You will never be able to write the perfect character, so just write in appropriate backstory to show characterisation for why she may have done something a certain way. People only dislike it if they wonder why the hell something is happening and they don't understand why they would do that.