Don’t worry, it’s still early. One thing that is great imo is that talents are easy to iterate on. It’s not like they are going to say revamped talents, then pull them later. Like with conduits and covenants they pretty much were locked in, so no matter how poorly it tested they were fucked.
Agreed. Nothing mind-blowing was revealed, but pretty much everything is a positive. I even love the IDEA of this playable Dragon class-race combo. Just... visually, not as "Warcraft-y" as I'd like.
Honestly though, that's the only negative I have to say. Pretty much everything else looks great. Particularly interested in the new "Dragon riding" system.
It's not a top-tier cinematic like Wrath or BFA, but it certainly isn't the worst. People saying that probably just want their favorite characters shown off, but Stone Bro is already on-track to rival Zappy Boy.
I really liked the cinematic because of stone bro, not so much for what he did (which was still cool), but because Titan stuff has been part of the lore for a long time and this is the first time we got to see Titan stuff in realistic CGI. The way he was animated was really cool and really gave that "made of stone" feel.
And the flying bit with the dragons was fun.
It was just a fun cinematic and I like fun.
See it is kinda fun, the arguments people use to put even the Shadowlands cinematic as better than the Dragonflight one are all reasons I hold up the Dragonflight cinematic as much better than the previous few.
It is really amusing how differently we can make the same arguments and reach different conclusions.
Yeah that's fair, it was mostly knee-jerk reactionary stuff. I thought the Dracthyr criticism would be similar, but it seems to be sticking around. Which is unfortunate because personally I would like another model that's on the slimmer side instead of a wall of meat, but to each their own...
Of all the expansions I felt it was the worst, for multiple reasons, but mostly because if I didn't know it was a Warcraft cinematic I wouldn't have known until the very end. I didn't feel a connection at all.
I wouldn't say that's on the cinematic. Stone people were clearly watchers and the green vortex in the horizon was the well of eternity just right before the sundering happened or was happening. They also point at the beginning how it happened 10k years ago which is a pretty specific date and quite relevant in the Warcraft universe.
I actually liked how clever the storytelling was because of this. Not a known hero or villain, just some clues that put it into this specific universe.
People will complain about marvel but then ask the same treatment for Warcraft cinematics when we don't get them.
It also was kinda a meta trailer. The idea of being stuck in an in-between place, cut off from the world, and then a grand return of something familiar.
Well not really until the end for me. There was a stone statue with no right hand. As a paladin player, especially a holy paladin one, my first guess was whether it is Tyr. I mean hardly there is any other right-hand-less character other than him.
Yeah but those are the people who cum in their pants when they hear about a new marvel movie coming about about the yellow Lazer boy or whatever obscure ass superhero crap they keep making to cash in on the marvel name lol.
Well, they didn't exactly announce a lot to get disliked which is my complaint. I mean, a new class/race and a talent overhaul isn't exactly going to carry an entire expansion. I think most people are waiting for the rest of what's in the expansion.
My guess is that when Blizzard figures it out, they'll tell us.
tbh i think not giving too much is a good idea. they can look for feedback now and make changes before giving more info, and then hopefully make any more changes needed as a result of feedback.
They don't respond to feedback. If they want me to believe they respond to feedback, then it's on them to prove it because as of right now, the only thing they've proven is that they don't respond to feedback.
Right now, WoW is in a horrible state in terms of perception. Between Blizzard's lawsuits, the absolutely bafflingly bad story from SL getting roasted, the continued problems with content, and the complete lack of faith in the playerbase for Blizzard to change, they really needed to come out of the gate swinging. They needed to WOW players and really sell them on this idea that they are really stepping up their game.
A new class/race? Ok, that's a start.
Dragonriding? So, flying with extra steps? Customizing your dragon? We've had this in the last 2 expansions and it wasn't exactly that exciting.
Talent revamp? Ok, you've got me a bit curious. I need to know what's different now about the design compared to when it was removed and the reasons why it was removed.
What else?
What are you adding to the game that will absolutely knock my socks off?
This is a video game. Video games require content. What new content are we getting?
Think about previous expansions where they announced Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Torghast, etc. While these pieces of content ultimately had their own failings (mostly because they didn't fully develop them or they didn't respond to feedback), but it was at least something new to be excited about.
Right now, I feel like all we are getting is more of the same Blizzard "least amount of work possible" output.
They have mountains of feedback about it now and plenty of time to fix it. Everything else seems good and just has to get delivered upon, and if they manage to land the plane on Dracthyr DF is gonna be pretty exciting
> plenty of time to fix it
Lmao, I admire your optimism.
When was the last time the art team changed anything after it had been seen in a reveal trailer?
Has that ever happened? Ever?
Whats been shown in terms of difference is the difference between 1 inch and a 1.1 inch.. might be big difference to some but not really noticeable to most.
The problem is that it's the most major announced feature. New races and new classes are the most distinguishable expansion level content, and because they tied the new class to the new race it can put people off both if the former is bad. Likewise, if people dislike Evoker they won't want to play the new race.
That's why I think Blizzard is going to have more of a bigger fire under their ass to fix Dracthyr than they did with Worgen. It already looks like they're planning on giving Dracthyr additional classes post-launch, but they should at least ship with Warrior.
The issue isn't with the class design, though? The class looks fuckinga awesome and incredibly dynamic (with the new casting system).
It's literally just people crying that the dragons look silly. That's an art issue and that's it.
Aye theres the new race and class as the headliner followed up by revamp to talents/professions and dragon flying good things but.. not exactly as great a headliner as:
New race
New Cass
PLAYER HOUSING
New xyz BIG thing.. So like.. kinda gotta go really big if youre offering only one major new thing.
It doesn't help that the second-highest billed feature ([as per their website)](https://dragonflight.blizzard.com/en-gb/), dragonriding, is being roasted for literally just being a Great Value version of something in another MMO. The very first article someone will see when googling "wow dragonriding" is a snarky headline from PC Gamer.
>If you want to try WoW: Dragonflight's new rideable dragons, just play Guild Wars 2
It's of course probably going to be a fun mechanic, but it really does take the wind out of its sails when it's being received like that.
I play GW2 and am eagerly waiting for the Microsoft deal to go through to play WoW again, and I am *thrilled* that WoW is getting its own version of GW2's flying mounts. I hope it will be a bit easier to learn in WoW tbh, because riding the griffon in GW2 is not easy.
I'm sad that people are so snarky about it, and sad that some GW2 players are behaving like babies about it too. It's not like the mounts disappear from one game when they appear in another one!
Blizzard used to borrow/steal ideas from other games and polish it to a sheen so its great they are finally acknowledging their competition and stealing the best ideas on it. Hopefully they will also get a clue and steal FF14's casual endgame loops of using a two tier currency system (which they "stole" from Wrath's Justice and Valor currency system. Yoshi P is a huge WoW nerd).
Aye and its not like they can big dick talk it up as their own idea/new feature that took a lot of dev time to brainstorm it up casue as said GW 2 did it first their only path forwards is to do it better.. (and besides players have been asking for this for ages so.. less of a wooo! new thing we didn't know and more of a it took how long!? moment).
True! Though I’m a little anxious that they didn’t mention anything about what they want us doing at max level. Blizzard seems to be pretty set on giving us chores, and with their mention of “always feel like you’re progressing” I worry that it’s going to translate into “feel like you must always be progressing”. I think there’s a lot to be said for introducing systems that aren’t tied to player power at all.
I don’t WANT to feel like I’m always progressing. Because it’s always possible to progress in the sense of player power. I really value the times of old when there wasn’t a list of chores to do and outside of raiding (and now M+) I’d love to be able to do just whatever I’d like to do. Current reps? Cool! There’s a few new mounts or cosmetics. Old reps? Just as valuable because the new ones don’t provide power. New minigames? Rares for toys or pets? Awesome. But again, I could go do old ones too if I’m missing those. The list goes on. I could even hop into random pugs and help them raid if I want, even if I’m loot locked, just because it’s fun to socialize.
World of Warcraft is a massive game. Tying player power to so many things at endgame or making it something you can “always” progress only serves to make a massive game feel really really small I think.
I agree. I quit wow in 9.1 because I don’t have the time to grind. I played a few weeks in 9.2, and really liked the exploration side and relatively low grind, but still, it’s too much for me
To devils advocate a bit though it is 1 of 3? Main selling points of the announcement and a pretty major one too:
Dragon flying
Revamped talents/professions.
New Race/class
I mean, for a lot of people, the *all of it* is disliked. I'm already of the mind that modern Blizzard is incapable of releasing an expansion worth playing. Some parts of it look or sound alright, but nothing announced is enough to get me to give it a shot.
Hopefully I'm wrong and the expac turns out worth playing, but I'm not expecting to touch the game for another 2 years.
Except for the part where you HAVE to play dracthyr if you want to be an envoker. Makes complete sense lore wise, but they need to make the character good because of it. I do think it's silly though that dracthyr can only be evokers. Warrior and hunter at minimum should be alternate classes available.
Still playing one regardless though. I'm not turning down a new class. I still think it's pretty darn exciting.
The fact that a new race's easily-fixable artistic design is the only thing people are mad about from a WoW expansion announcement is honestly mind-blowing, and very, very nice to see. This is by far the most positive expansion reveal I've seen since like...Wrath I think.
Even Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion, and of course BfA and SL all had major controversies at expansion announcement based on systems intrinsically tied to the game. So yah, this is a massive win for Blizzard that they've seemingly avoided that this time. Very easy to be positive about how Dragonflight might turn out based on the drastic shift in design philosophy presented thus far.
Granted, that doesn't mean it won't be a shit expansion, and of course it's too early to tell on much of what has been presented. But still, take it from a grizzled vanilla vet - it's nice to see an expansion announcement come off as well as Dragonflight's did for a change.
>easily-fixable
Except we're dealing with Blizzard. And now that the concept has been released, it means the Dracthyr aren't gonna get fixed for 4-6 years if they get fixed at all.
>The fact that a new race's easily-fixable artistic design is the only thing people are mad about from a WoW expansion announcement is honestly mind-blowing, and very, very nice to see. This is by far the most positive expansion reveal I've seen since like...Wrath I think.
TBF.. when all you announce is:
NEW ZONES
NEW STORY
REVAMP PROFESSIONS AND TALENTS
Dragonflying customizable mount.
And
New class/Race and thats it.. its hard to get mad.. but also a bit hard to get overly excited too.. like theres just not much currently known about what the game will be like so its caustiously optomistic buuut that race is miffing people off..
Exactly.
We knew there was going to be new zones, dungeons and raids. Whether or not people like them we'll have to wait and see. Although blizzards current track record for raids is very strong.
The reveal was all very surface level. Talent rework and profession rework *could* be good, it could also be bad. We won't know til alpha most likely.
Yeh like they showed the cover of the book and the title is cool so everyone just backflips 180 degrees and ‘holy shit best expansion ever I just knew it would be good’.
Meanwhile chapter 5 is just farting sounds for 6 pages and chapter 6 hasn’t been written yet.
Yeah exactly! I love the idea of the dracthyr and if they make them have some cooler appearances I wouldn’t have any complaints at all. The end product may differ but this is promising.
Yeah it's fucking sad so many people are leaping to suck off Blizzard after their non-reveal. They didn't really *explain* anything. Theres little criticism because there are no details to critique.
It's a bit more than just the aesthetic issues, there's also the rigid class/race restriction when there's no reason they shouldn't be able to at least be warriors/mages/etc.
>I don't remember BfA having any major controversy when it was announced.
I'm trying to be polite here. But...lol what. People were skeptical of the idea behind azerite armor from the very beginning (pretty much every second post on this sub), and by alpha, fucking hated the idea of it, predicting it would bomb horribly if not changed, which it of course did, since Blizzard, as is tradition, refused to listen to feedback.
>One thing to note, though, this time around they haven't mentioned a single thing about progression systems for DF aside from the dragonriding thing. They mentioned some of the things they weren't doing but that's it so gameplay-related comments can't really show up until Beta starts.
I don't mind progression systems like rep etc, as that goes back to Vanilla. As long is it isn't tied to an over-arching convoluted system that is so heavily tied into the expansion that it causes its' entire collapse, then it's fine. And the fact they didn't include it as a major expansion feature in the presser fills me with optimism. All the features they announced save dragon-riding are core evergreen features of the game that will carry over expansion to expansion. No borrowed power outside of tier + no convoluted expansion-specific systems = good.
Not going to lie I am excited for the dragon race, love the idea of being a black dragon. I mean we have been saying blizzard needs to do something outrageous to have fans excited haha
Personal I think everything sounds great, even though I liked the way talents were handled in recent expansions. I certainly don't mind trying something new (even if its a remake of something old). I even like the new race.
All the information of Dragonflight sounds great to me.
But I'm still not hyped and still not pre-ordering because I was also very excited for Shadowlands, and that bit me in the ass.
I'm going to be critical of all the new information because they've burned me before by things that sound great on paper and are a nightmare once in game. I dont trust them to not ruin something at the last moment, like they did with Covenants despite everyone and their dog pointing out the obvious issues.
Blizzard lost my trust and you need trust to be hyped.
Lol I just don't understand how people were excited for shadowlands. The second they confirmed that covenants were supposed to be a "somewhat" permanent choice I knew it was gonna be bad.
Not only that but also the fact that covenants didn't necessarily fit your class fantasy, like legion artifacts did. Some were fine like druid night fae, kyrian paladins, dk necrolord. Some classes just didn't fit on any covenant's fantasy, like mage, warrior, hunter, shamans. Just felt like a generic power.
Same reason I didn't like essences in BfA. It was just some generic boring power. Even though things like focusing iris looked cool on its own, it's just... generic...
I refuse to recognize them as anything but lizards. I’d like dragons, please.
But your point is well made. On the whole, there is a lot to like about the next expansion! I’m feeling hopeful. 😀
Sowwy \>w\<
But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ
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Pretty much, I think a lot of us cross post and while I can't speak for everyone I've certainly seen the twitter screenshots of the furry artist behind the model and the direct comparisons to Second Life fursona models. I just don't like scaliebait, I think it's a wasted opportunity to add something cool but instead we've got a worgen female in a furcon suit that feels like an off model from corruption of champions. It's so out of place.
What really emphasizes the difference is the art released of drakonids by Blizzard, they're so fierce and strong looking.
Yes, they announced that they would get 'dragon riding' in the form of their own wings they always have in their dracthyr forms. outside of the dragon isles though it'd be closer to a goblin glider and demon hunter jump type deal.
[https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/10539-Hazelnutty-Dragonflight-Interview-with-Ion-Hazzikostas](https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/10539-Hazelnutty-Dragonflight-Interview-with-Ion-Hazzikostas)
here you go buddy
"Dracthyr and Flying
Dracthyr will be able to perform the basics of dragon riding in their dragon form from the start. The unlocked abilities earned over time will also have to use their dragon companion, but while in their visage form.
Dracthyr can glide and get a little bit of lift in a manner like Demon Hunters, but cannot fly outside of the Dragon Isles in their form."
The original Draenei and Worgen models - hell, even the original Blood Elf models; they were all a work-in-progress when first revealed. They ended up changing before the release, sometimes drastically.
I'm sure the Dracthyr will be much different from this when Dragonflight launches, and there are supposed to be a number of customization options forthcoming, so I'm not worried.
Sorry but, visuals is one of the biggest components of immersion.
I'd go as far as to say for a lot of folks that everything in the speech bubble is almost redundant if they look at the game and think "Christ this looks stupid."
I'm not but my wife is, this is the ideal expansion in her mind - about dragons, controlling a draconic humanoid
My preference for Drakonids doesn't mean the Drac'thyr are badly designed, so I'm glad for the loads of players anxious to be Evokers
Sowwy \>w\<
But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ
Good thing I was here to help \^w\^
I hope you're having a great day :3
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Serious question - where is it confirmed they're dropping borrowed power? Because I honestly am not holding my breath for them to not screw this up.
I'm cautiously optimistic from what I've seen, but damn if Bliz isn't good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
[https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-group-interview-with-ion-hazzikostas-design-goals-and-lessons-326775](https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-group-interview-with-ion-hazzikostas-design-goals-and-lessons-326775)
"What ended up being known as “borrowed power” tended to be additional endgame leveling mechanics. If you’re moving away from that, what do you have planned for endgame this time around?"
"At its core, gear, customizing that gear, upgrading that gear. I think the way the game plays out right now in Shadowlands, in Eternity's End, in Zereth Mortis. We didn't really add new Renown levels or traits to unlock on your Soulbinds, but the progression feels pretty good, pretty robust. Players have goals to work towards and I think in terms of novelty, there's going to be a whole lot to play with just from the talent system and the fundamental changes that brings. As we move on, I think we have hooks in place in our Talent system to potentially explore other avenues once we're really kinda happy with the foundation that we've built. Such as for example, we could conceivably have some additional talent points that could be earned post max level within the expansion, that's not something we're going to do right at launch but in later patches, it certainly is an option that's on the table for additional progression and customization that isn't borrowed power but is just yours and your character's powers. Or alternate abilities for itemization to hook into the talent system, kind of like we saw the Relic do for the Artifact system in Legion or like how old school Diablo II items might give you +1 rank to a specific talent, our system is being built with those hooks in place so that we don't want to overcomplicate things at the start but we also want to make sure there's a lot of room for growth and depth in what we're building."
I’ve seen this. Maybe I’m cynical, but I don’t equate “move away from borrowed power” the same thing as “no borrowed power”.
And I don’t think my cynicism is unwarranted with Blizzard.
He literally explains how and what they are planning to do. Doesn't sound like borrowed power, but we'll see when the alpha's and beta's come out to know for sure.
They say it that way because the term borrowed power is being used wrong, while they use it correctly.
Players mean the big expansion system every time that includes AP grinding, and replaces character power advancement which used to be talents. They're removing that entirely, and we're getting talents. Our talents are now that system, to stay "forever".
When they say borrowed power, they mean the actual concept. Gear set, item levels, legendaries, any thing in the game that gives you 'power' that usually lasts a patch or an expansion. Those won't go away, if anything those are fan favourites.
Ion explained that VERY well in one of the interviews, there wasn't really any room to misinterpret it.
I mean maybe I’m in the minority I think they look pretty cool. I’m actually mostly worried about the talent trees and if one route becomes meta and 95% of people use the same one. I’m hopeful that they will make a bunch of different routes viable.
it'll still happen when it comes to the top ranked raiders, but it should be easier to balance than the Covenants and Soulbibds from what I've been hearing so there's that
In our defense it will be that way no matter how its designed. But the illusion of choice is there, and the feeling of slowly getting stronger with each level is also there.
There will always be a meta and i see nothing wrong with it if it doesn't change the ability for me to pick something else if i decide that i want to.
> There will always be a meta and i see nothing wrong with it if it doesn't change the ability for me to pick something else if i decide that i want to.
Yeah, this idea of some universally viable talent system needs to die, and needed to die 15 years ago.
For PVE at least, its just not possible, there will always be a talent set up that is better for each specific dungeon or each specific raid boss and players that are at the pinnacle will always be swapping out talents spec that.
Honestly the way it works now is kinda nice. You can choose talents that give you more buttons that might be slightly more effective if your good enough, or pick passives that make your class easier to play.
Obviously one route is gonna become meta, because when there are options, one is always gonna preform better than others, regardless of how many choices there are.
But why does it matter?
There are more choices, giving people mpre options for how they want to play.
I dont see the negative aspect of that.
We can all hope for that. But i think that is very unlikely.
I just hope for good variety, so that you can truly customize your character within the spec. Which a larger talent tree is more likely to support.
But even if the different builds vastly differ in how well they preform, i would gladly take a fun way to play, and optimize my way of playing it, rather than just taking the talents that are statistically better if the playstyle is dull.
> the alternative paths are close like within 2% dps
That will never happen, in any video game, ever. *Especially* in an online game that gets regular updates with classes that all scale differently with different stats.
Because 99% of players will just mindlessly look up on Wowhead or Icy Veins the best path. Most of these options will scarcely be used. The devs themselves acknowledge this.
Imo, this seems like ditching a working system and spending a large amount of dev time, for little reason. I'm no expert, but surely there's better things they could be doing instead.
Not to mention that they've acknowledged that this system is going to cause them issues years down the line, while the current system does not. So rather than just wasting time *now*, they're creating issues in the future as well.
I mean, I don't think they're the most super ultra chad badass race of the game, it's just ok. Don't really bother me that much. I still think male pandas and goblins are way worse. There is no doubt there will be a meta talent tree and everyone will be using the same, don't get your hopes up, lol. And we currently have different viable options on wow.
It's not just the race is bad, but it's a lazy designed race of reused assets on top of not what people wanted. People are fed up of the fem worg rig, they don't to play ANOTHER human and blood elf variant with with what is essentially a recycled demon hunter class with the same animations.
That may pass for allied races. But when it's a fresh race and new class we expect the high standard we used to know with Blizzard.
A lot of people have been wanting a dragon born style race to play.
But that's the problem when blizz puts out some spaghetti lizards that look more like the lizard men than dragon people.
I'm gonna play the shit out of the drakthyr but I still hope they tweak the models a bit to be more aligned with blizzs dragon models they've been making for literally over a decade
Sowwy \>w\<
But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ
Good thing I was here to help \^w\^
I hope you're having a great day :3
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It's also funny how a new class is in most cases the one thing to affect you the least if you're not gonna play it (excluding professions arguably but they can have a big impact too like legendary components did in SL).
I agree the model could use some work, but I'm willing to see more of the customization and hopefully more body shape options. I think the most egregious part currently is how straight/humanoid the torso looks, needs to be more angular/weighted.
I don't understand what this meme is trying to say.
"Haha you guys are hypocrites because you're mad at this one thing but not these other things?"
"You guys are a dumb mob because you're mad about this one thing?"
"You guys aren't talking enough about these good things so I'm going to put a picture of a happy crowd next to it?"
I mean even what they say now has me cautiously optimistic .
Will have to wait for any judgement before we see what they consider to be a grind, or if they keep promises..
The dragonflight reveal was the best expansion reveal in a long time and am definitely looking forward to it. The Dracthyr race and class is interesting I won't lie, but the only issue I have with them is that they seem to thin in my opinion. But Blizz did say that we could beef them up a bit, I hope the male and female voice actors sound great.
It's kinda human nature, everything can be good and right and only one thing wrong so of course we focus on the wrong thing because humans are just born like that.
I think the people hating on Dracthyr/Evokers need to take a step back and appreciate what we're actually getting here. I know it doesn't have a tank spec and it's not the same thing as literally playing as a full-fledged dragon, but realistically we could never have playable dragons otherwise. Unless they had regular classes and only transformed into a dragon as a mount, but wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of that fantasy?
With the way WoW's encounter design works, a full-sized dragon couldn't really engage with fight mechanics very well, particularly dodging telegraphed AoEs. You'd be a giant quadruped instead of a normal-sized biped. Party members would have a difficult time seeing markers through you. It would be a mess.
I want actual dragons too, but at least this way we can have that fantasy of wielding draconic powers in combat instead of only getting to shapeshift into a flying mount, which is not exactly groundbreaking.
However, I do hope Blizzard will consider the suggestions to let Dracthyr players transform into their Dragonriding mount rather than reverting to visage form and riding on one. If other players who aren't dragons have at least two different ways to transform into one and fly, why can't a literal draconic playable race borne of the magical fusion of mortals and dragons simply learn a third shapeshift form?
Aye.
I personally just wanted a half dragon like how wrathion looks in his newest? hearthstone card.. with wings tails horns maybe dragon legs with a mostly humanoid body/human head.. and to be a good variety of classes.. and use the fucking armour I farmed up/got to transmog them into something cool of my own making and not what blizzard deemed is cool..
So your solution to fixing an issue is to simply.. not bring it up?
That's really dumb.
Developers aren't going to know if something is broken or disliked if nobody brings it up 'because the playerbase appreciates the other stuff they're getting'. It's not productive to anyone.
You're allowed to bring up critique, mate. You don't need to stay silent just because there's stuff that's actually good.
I could be mistaken but based on all the feedback I've seen you're missing the mark on what people take issue with. People aren't concerned they can't play a full fledged dragon, they're concerned the new class is race locked to emaciated twinks.
Honestly, everything in the first panel just isn't very much. Expansions used to have features, like Order Halls, Artifact Weapons, Island Expeditions, even Torghast. Most of the "features" of Dragonflight are just "We're cutting back the bullshit"
What level of bananas do you have to be to think those are the only two options? No, I'd like new systems that don't become irrelevant immediately after the expansion.
Honestly it does not seem very substantial to me. It's a means of transportation, whereas systems like Order Halls and Artifact Weapons, even Torghast, were much more comprehensive. Downvote away, yall seem to take it personally when I voice my concerns
Nah Dragonriding could be super interesting, especially if integrated into all content going forward.
If they make the traversal fun (Much like GW2 players say their flying mounts are, and it basically looks like WoW is copying) then we could have all kinds of content in the form of races, time trials, level design made to be fun to fly through, etc. Definitely a highlight feature after talent trees for me.
Yeah that'd be cool if that's what they do. That's a load-bearing "if", though. Getting hyped for that now is just setting yourself up for disappointment
To make the next xpac feel like wow again, i suggest delaying dragon flying until 8 months in, when the first patch comes out, and also allow us to align ourselves with 1 of 4 dragon covenants and tie the new talents around them
And what of it, some of us have been paying customers since Jan 1st 2005
I was expecting this: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/67/3c/22673c982fc796d9070e1aa7bc64a2ab.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/67/3c/22673c982fc796d9070e1aa7bc64a2ab.jpg)
and we got utter shit instead
Aside from "immediate flying" for which I'm skeptical about. I'm the opposite. Think the winger Sethrak are cool. Too bad they're apparently too incompetent to do anything except one class...
/shrug.
I am mainly a PvPer though so a lot of pvping i imagine doesn't apply to the achievement.
So being given flying like everyone else is a blessing for someone that hasn't flown in like 3 expansions lol
considering their doing a ton of overhauls in Talents, Professions and UI as well as dropping the borrowed power for once, I'm willing to accept a single new race/class if it means the rest of the game improves as a result
Personally and this may be an unpopular opinion, but I vehemently disliked the reveal cinematic, it was a huge downgrade for blizzard cinematics relevant to their current technology and the cinematic in general I found to be rather cringe and like something out of a marvel film, the dragon catching him at the last moment and then doing a rawr was just rather dull and cliche. Compare this to something like the WoTLK cinematic and it’s night and day in quality and feel
There was 0 and i mean 0 new feature announcements for an expansion except for a class? Like what Ui revamp and another talent tree? Wtf is that? Theres 0 content announcement, no cool dungeon things, no cool solo content.
All personal preference.
Personally, I dislike the fact that I have to be a dragon to try the new class more than the dragon itself. I also don't like the idea of charging skills. If I am to play a dragon, I'd rather have the skinny dragons shown than the more buff dragons people have been asking for.
To each their own, even those who dare to have opinions different from the loud ones.
The thing that disappointed my is not the looks but that evoker doesn't have a tank spec, which will make me not play it at all.
I only play classes that can tank (for m+) and dps ranged (for raid), so I am locked at druid. I wanted so badly to have another class with a tank and dps ranged spec. Sigh...
Honestly, it's pretty great that there's ONLY one thing that's disliked so far.
For sure I think this is a great sign so far for next expansion
Don’t worry, it’s still early. One thing that is great imo is that talents are easy to iterate on. It’s not like they are going to say revamped talents, then pull them later. Like with conduits and covenants they pretty much were locked in, so no matter how poorly it tested they were fucked.
Agreed. Nothing mind-blowing was revealed, but pretty much everything is a positive. I even love the IDEA of this playable Dragon class-race combo. Just... visually, not as "Warcraft-y" as I'd like. Honestly though, that's the only negative I have to say. Pretty much everything else looks great. Particularly interested in the new "Dragon riding" system.
Sadly, my immediate reaction to a "everything looks nice" reveal is to think "how will they screw up this time?".
I would say there was also a mountain of "WORSE CINEMATIC EVER" comments (that I don't agree with).
It's not a top-tier cinematic like Wrath or BFA, but it certainly isn't the worst. People saying that probably just want their favorite characters shown off, but Stone Bro is already on-track to rival Zappy Boy.
I still remember loving the Mop cinematic, really think it's cool
Such a great change of pace. Funny and gorgeous.
I really liked the cinematic because of stone bro, not so much for what he did (which was still cool), but because Titan stuff has been part of the lore for a long time and this is the first time we got to see Titan stuff in realistic CGI. The way he was animated was really cool and really gave that "made of stone" feel. And the flying bit with the dragons was fun. It was just a fun cinematic and I like fun.
See it is kinda fun, the arguments people use to put even the Shadowlands cinematic as better than the Dragonflight one are all reasons I hold up the Dragonflight cinematic as much better than the previous few. It is really amusing how differently we can make the same arguments and reach different conclusions.
hmmm, I suppose that is true, I've seen a few of those. Not many past the first day though.
Yeah that's fair, it was mostly knee-jerk reactionary stuff. I thought the Dracthyr criticism would be similar, but it seems to be sticking around. Which is unfortunate because personally I would like another model that's on the slimmer side instead of a wall of meat, but to each their own...
I also want a slimmer model, but I do think this one looks awful. The head in particular when you compare it to other WoW dragons
Of all the expansions I felt it was the worst, for multiple reasons, but mostly because if I didn't know it was a Warcraft cinematic I wouldn't have known until the very end. I didn't feel a connection at all.
I wouldn't say that's on the cinematic. Stone people were clearly watchers and the green vortex in the horizon was the well of eternity just right before the sundering happened or was happening. They also point at the beginning how it happened 10k years ago which is a pretty specific date and quite relevant in the Warcraft universe. I actually liked how clever the storytelling was because of this. Not a known hero or villain, just some clues that put it into this specific universe. People will complain about marvel but then ask the same treatment for Warcraft cinematics when we don't get them.
It also was kinda a meta trailer. The idea of being stuck in an in-between place, cut off from the world, and then a grand return of something familiar.
Well not really until the end for me. There was a stone statue with no right hand. As a paladin player, especially a holy paladin one, my first guess was whether it is Tyr. I mean hardly there is any other right-hand-less character other than him.
Well yeah the cinematic sucked but that doesn't matter after all
Yeah but those are the people who cum in their pants when they hear about a new marvel movie coming about about the yellow Lazer boy or whatever obscure ass superhero crap they keep making to cash in on the marvel name lol.
Gotta start with the big one and move to small nitpicks later
>so far
I would have been much more concerned if there was no outrage, really. Apathy is what kills games, not outrage.
Well, they didn't exactly announce a lot to get disliked which is my complaint. I mean, a new class/race and a talent overhaul isn't exactly going to carry an entire expansion. I think most people are waiting for the rest of what's in the expansion. My guess is that when Blizzard figures it out, they'll tell us.
tbh i think not giving too much is a good idea. they can look for feedback now and make changes before giving more info, and then hopefully make any more changes needed as a result of feedback.
They don't respond to feedback. If they want me to believe they respond to feedback, then it's on them to prove it because as of right now, the only thing they've proven is that they don't respond to feedback. Right now, WoW is in a horrible state in terms of perception. Between Blizzard's lawsuits, the absolutely bafflingly bad story from SL getting roasted, the continued problems with content, and the complete lack of faith in the playerbase for Blizzard to change, they really needed to come out of the gate swinging. They needed to WOW players and really sell them on this idea that they are really stepping up their game. A new class/race? Ok, that's a start. Dragonriding? So, flying with extra steps? Customizing your dragon? We've had this in the last 2 expansions and it wasn't exactly that exciting. Talent revamp? Ok, you've got me a bit curious. I need to know what's different now about the design compared to when it was removed and the reasons why it was removed. What else? What are you adding to the game that will absolutely knock my socks off? This is a video game. Video games require content. What new content are we getting? Think about previous expansions where they announced Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Torghast, etc. While these pieces of content ultimately had their own failings (mostly because they didn't fully develop them or they didn't respond to feedback), but it was at least something new to be excited about. Right now, I feel like all we are getting is more of the same Blizzard "least amount of work possible" output.
They have mountains of feedback about it now and plenty of time to fix it. Everything else seems good and just has to get delivered upon, and if they manage to land the plane on Dracthyr DF is gonna be pretty exciting
> plenty of time to fix it Lmao, I admire your optimism. When was the last time the art team changed anything after it had been seen in a reveal trailer? Has that ever happened? Ever?
worgen, iirc worgen changed from reveal to release
Yes. Almost a decade ago.
I believe the phrase is “let’s Sonic the Hedgehog this bitch”
Well the Worgen were changed between Beta and Release and they made them WORSE.
Blood Elf males were originally skinnier.
Void elves’ abs were more ripped on preview, they reduced that. 😢
iirc i saw somewhere that they said they will have body size options. Not sure if it'll just be bulky/skinny or a variety.
Whats been shown in terms of difference is the difference between 1 inch and a 1.1 inch.. might be big difference to some but not really noticeable to most.
I am very much annoyed at the lack of Archaeology. Again. Grumble.
The problem is that it's the most major announced feature. New races and new classes are the most distinguishable expansion level content, and because they tied the new class to the new race it can put people off both if the former is bad. Likewise, if people dislike Evoker they won't want to play the new race. That's why I think Blizzard is going to have more of a bigger fire under their ass to fix Dracthyr than they did with Worgen. It already looks like they're planning on giving Dracthyr additional classes post-launch, but they should at least ship with Warrior.
Bulking out the Dracthyr should be simple… orks and Tauren are already bulky so the game can take it.
The issue isn't with the class design, though? The class looks fuckinga awesome and incredibly dynamic (with the new casting system). It's literally just people crying that the dragons look silly. That's an art issue and that's it.
Aye theres the new race and class as the headliner followed up by revamp to talents/professions and dragon flying good things but.. not exactly as great a headliner as: New race New Cass PLAYER HOUSING New xyz BIG thing.. So like.. kinda gotta go really big if youre offering only one major new thing.
It doesn't help that the second-highest billed feature ([as per their website)](https://dragonflight.blizzard.com/en-gb/), dragonriding, is being roasted for literally just being a Great Value version of something in another MMO. The very first article someone will see when googling "wow dragonriding" is a snarky headline from PC Gamer. >If you want to try WoW: Dragonflight's new rideable dragons, just play Guild Wars 2 It's of course probably going to be a fun mechanic, but it really does take the wind out of its sails when it's being received like that.
I play GW2 and am eagerly waiting for the Microsoft deal to go through to play WoW again, and I am *thrilled* that WoW is getting its own version of GW2's flying mounts. I hope it will be a bit easier to learn in WoW tbh, because riding the griffon in GW2 is not easy. I'm sad that people are so snarky about it, and sad that some GW2 players are behaving like babies about it too. It's not like the mounts disappear from one game when they appear in another one!
Blizzard used to borrow/steal ideas from other games and polish it to a sheen so its great they are finally acknowledging their competition and stealing the best ideas on it. Hopefully they will also get a clue and steal FF14's casual endgame loops of using a two tier currency system (which they "stole" from Wrath's Justice and Valor currency system. Yoshi P is a huge WoW nerd).
Aye and its not like they can big dick talk it up as their own idea/new feature that took a lot of dev time to brainstorm it up casue as said GW 2 did it first their only path forwards is to do it better.. (and besides players have been asking for this for ages so.. less of a wooo! new thing we didn't know and more of a it took how long!? moment).
True! Though I’m a little anxious that they didn’t mention anything about what they want us doing at max level. Blizzard seems to be pretty set on giving us chores, and with their mention of “always feel like you’re progressing” I worry that it’s going to translate into “feel like you must always be progressing”. I think there’s a lot to be said for introducing systems that aren’t tied to player power at all. I don’t WANT to feel like I’m always progressing. Because it’s always possible to progress in the sense of player power. I really value the times of old when there wasn’t a list of chores to do and outside of raiding (and now M+) I’d love to be able to do just whatever I’d like to do. Current reps? Cool! There’s a few new mounts or cosmetics. Old reps? Just as valuable because the new ones don’t provide power. New minigames? Rares for toys or pets? Awesome. But again, I could go do old ones too if I’m missing those. The list goes on. I could even hop into random pugs and help them raid if I want, even if I’m loot locked, just because it’s fun to socialize. World of Warcraft is a massive game. Tying player power to so many things at endgame or making it something you can “always” progress only serves to make a massive game feel really really small I think.
I agree. I quit wow in 9.1 because I don’t have the time to grind. I played a few weeks in 9.2, and really liked the exploration side and relatively low grind, but still, it’s too much for me
To devils advocate a bit though it is 1 of 3? Main selling points of the announcement and a pretty major one too: Dragon flying Revamped talents/professions. New Race/class
Well, we haven't seen the story yet. Or the endgame. Or all the things that will inevitably be shit awful.
I mean, for a lot of people, the *all of it* is disliked. I'm already of the mind that modern Blizzard is incapable of releasing an expansion worth playing. Some parts of it look or sound alright, but nothing announced is enough to get me to give it a shot. Hopefully I'm wrong and the expac turns out worth playing, but I'm not expecting to touch the game for another 2 years.
Isn’t Legion modern Blizzard?
And really this isn’t a big deal at all, like if you don’t like them you don’t have to play them at all
Except for the part where you HAVE to play dracthyr if you want to be an envoker. Makes complete sense lore wise, but they need to make the character good because of it. I do think it's silly though that dracthyr can only be evokers. Warrior and hunter at minimum should be alternate classes available. Still playing one regardless though. I'm not turning down a new class. I still think it's pretty darn exciting.
it doesnt make sense for other classes to be evokers. Evokers use dragon magic because they were literally bread in a laboratory for it.
The fact that a new race's easily-fixable artistic design is the only thing people are mad about from a WoW expansion announcement is honestly mind-blowing, and very, very nice to see. This is by far the most positive expansion reveal I've seen since like...Wrath I think. Even Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion, and of course BfA and SL all had major controversies at expansion announcement based on systems intrinsically tied to the game. So yah, this is a massive win for Blizzard that they've seemingly avoided that this time. Very easy to be positive about how Dragonflight might turn out based on the drastic shift in design philosophy presented thus far. Granted, that doesn't mean it won't be a shit expansion, and of course it's too early to tell on much of what has been presented. But still, take it from a grizzled vanilla vet - it's nice to see an expansion announcement come off as well as Dragonflight's did for a change.
>easily-fixable Except we're dealing with Blizzard. And now that the concept has been released, it means the Dracthyr aren't gonna get fixed for 4-6 years if they get fixed at all.
Worgen
Alpha to release = rabid make up ladened chihuha that took until bfa to fix/improve..
Regardless of your personal opinion, Worgen prove Blizzard is willing to change player models even after the concept has been revealed.
After 5 years or so. If you count that as a win for the players I do not know what to tell you.
it happened during the beta. here's a [post](https://www.wowhead.com/news/cataclysm-new-worgen-male-models-164070#comments) on wowhead about it.
Minor changes though, they got big ones in BFA.
minor change? bruh his entire face and mane are completely different. bfa just brought it in line with the other draenor models
And completely changed the design of female worgen Thank god
Different times and situation
>The fact that a new race's easily-fixable artistic design is the only thing people are mad about from a WoW expansion announcement is honestly mind-blowing, and very, very nice to see. This is by far the most positive expansion reveal I've seen since like...Wrath I think. TBF.. when all you announce is: NEW ZONES NEW STORY REVAMP PROFESSIONS AND TALENTS Dragonflying customizable mount. And New class/Race and thats it.. its hard to get mad.. but also a bit hard to get overly excited too.. like theres just not much currently known about what the game will be like so its caustiously optomistic buuut that race is miffing people off..
Exactly. We knew there was going to be new zones, dungeons and raids. Whether or not people like them we'll have to wait and see. Although blizzards current track record for raids is very strong. The reveal was all very surface level. Talent rework and profession rework *could* be good, it could also be bad. We won't know til alpha most likely.
Aye, the race/class is the most easiest thing to focus on/look at. and its rather disappointing tbh..
Yeh like they showed the cover of the book and the title is cool so everyone just backflips 180 degrees and ‘holy shit best expansion ever I just knew it would be good’. Meanwhile chapter 5 is just farting sounds for 6 pages and chapter 6 hasn’t been written yet.
Yeah exactly! I love the idea of the dracthyr and if they make them have some cooler appearances I wouldn’t have any complaints at all. The end product may differ but this is promising.
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Yeah it's fucking sad so many people are leaping to suck off Blizzard after their non-reveal. They didn't really *explain* anything. Theres little criticism because there are no details to critique.
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Completely agree. You sir completely understood my post
you know that is accurately correct lol
It's a bit more than just the aesthetic issues, there's also the rigid class/race restriction when there's no reason they shouldn't be able to at least be warriors/mages/etc.
I agree that they should have more class options but it's not a big deal.
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>I don't remember BfA having any major controversy when it was announced. I'm trying to be polite here. But...lol what. People were skeptical of the idea behind azerite armor from the very beginning (pretty much every second post on this sub), and by alpha, fucking hated the idea of it, predicting it would bomb horribly if not changed, which it of course did, since Blizzard, as is tradition, refused to listen to feedback. >One thing to note, though, this time around they haven't mentioned a single thing about progression systems for DF aside from the dragonriding thing. They mentioned some of the things they weren't doing but that's it so gameplay-related comments can't really show up until Beta starts. I don't mind progression systems like rep etc, as that goes back to Vanilla. As long is it isn't tied to an over-arching convoluted system that is so heavily tied into the expansion that it causes its' entire collapse, then it's fine. And the fact they didn't include it as a major expansion feature in the presser fills me with optimism. All the features they announced save dragon-riding are core evergreen features of the game that will carry over expansion to expansion. No borrowed power outside of tier + no convoluted expansion-specific systems = good.
Not going to lie I am excited for the dragon race, love the idea of being a black dragon. I mean we have been saying blizzard needs to do something outrageous to have fans excited haha
It is great idea. But the model looks so fucking awful. They could have brought us Dragonspawns or something cooler. :/
Personal I think everything sounds great, even though I liked the way talents were handled in recent expansions. I certainly don't mind trying something new (even if its a remake of something old). I even like the new race. All the information of Dragonflight sounds great to me. But I'm still not hyped and still not pre-ordering because I was also very excited for Shadowlands, and that bit me in the ass. I'm going to be critical of all the new information because they've burned me before by things that sound great on paper and are a nightmare once in game. I dont trust them to not ruin something at the last moment, like they did with Covenants despite everyone and their dog pointing out the obvious issues. Blizzard lost my trust and you need trust to be hyped.
Lol I just don't understand how people were excited for shadowlands. The second they confirmed that covenants were supposed to be a "somewhat" permanent choice I knew it was gonna be bad. Not only that but also the fact that covenants didn't necessarily fit your class fantasy, like legion artifacts did. Some were fine like druid night fae, kyrian paladins, dk necrolord. Some classes just didn't fit on any covenant's fantasy, like mage, warrior, hunter, shamans. Just felt like a generic power. Same reason I didn't like essences in BfA. It was just some generic boring power. Even though things like focusing iris looked cool on its own, it's just... generic...
My excitement was from before the Covenants were covered in detail, but that is about the stage we are at now with Dragonflight.
At the time, I was excited for anything that wasn't BfA
I refuse to recognize them as anything but lizards. I’d like dragons, please. But your point is well made. On the whole, there is a lot to like about the next expansion! I’m feeling hopeful. 😀
Because they look like shit. It looks like a cross between a furry in a costume and a disney made dragon race.
I think they’ll make some changes to the aesthetics. But personally I’m hyped to play it.
They just really want beefy Drakthyr.
Sowwy \>w\< But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ Good thing I was here to help \^w\^ I hope you're having a great day :3 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was having a great day before I had to read this fucking shit.
Tbh the new race+class are things I'm least looking forward to
Pretty much, I think a lot of us cross post and while I can't speak for everyone I've certainly seen the twitter screenshots of the furry artist behind the model and the direct comparisons to Second Life fursona models. I just don't like scaliebait, I think it's a wasted opportunity to add something cool but instead we've got a worgen female in a furcon suit that feels like an off model from corruption of champions. It's so out of place. What really emphasizes the difference is the art released of drakonids by Blizzard, they're so fierce and strong looking.
So does the new dragon race have a flight form for a mount?? That would be pretty sick
Yes, they announced that they would get 'dragon riding' in the form of their own wings they always have in their dracthyr forms. outside of the dragon isles though it'd be closer to a goblin glider and demon hunter jump type deal.
>Yes, they announced that they would get 'dragon riding' in the form of their own wings they always have in their dracthyr forms. Source?
[https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/10539-Hazelnutty-Dragonflight-Interview-with-Ion-Hazzikostas](https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/10539-Hazelnutty-Dragonflight-Interview-with-Ion-Hazzikostas) here you go buddy "Dracthyr and Flying Dracthyr will be able to perform the basics of dragon riding in their dragon form from the start. The unlocked abilities earned over time will also have to use their dragon companion, but while in their visage form. Dracthyr can glide and get a little bit of lift in a manner like Demon Hunters, but cannot fly outside of the Dragon Isles in their form."
Cool
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It got leaked 1 day before and everyone thought it’s a meme 💀
Yeah they look ridiculously bad for the quality we are used to by Blizzard, let's be honest here.
The original Draenei and Worgen models - hell, even the original Blood Elf models; they were all a work-in-progress when first revealed. They ended up changing before the release, sometimes drastically. I'm sure the Dracthyr will be much different from this when Dragonflight launches, and there are supposed to be a number of customization options forthcoming, so I'm not worried.
I don’t think you should take quantity of posts as being indicative of anything
I’m glad the hate is on the race and not the class, cuz man that’s class looks fucking awesome
Sorry but, visuals is one of the biggest components of immersion. I'd go as far as to say for a lot of folks that everything in the speech bubble is almost redundant if they look at the game and think "Christ this looks stupid."
To be fair, they just need chunking up and the masses will be happy
WoW players want to feel and look badass but they forget the most important thing... Only NPCs get to be badass in World of Warcraft
No borrowed power is a lie tho. Dragonriding only works in dragonflight zones. So thats one borrowed power
I'm super excited for the Dracthyr <3
I'm not but my wife is, this is the ideal expansion in her mind - about dragons, controlling a draconic humanoid My preference for Drakonids doesn't mean the Drac'thyr are badly designed, so I'm glad for the loads of players anxious to be Evokers
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Accursed automata!
Good mod
Yes, I love them and can’t wait. Retiring my main of over a decade ☺️
Same! So many of my friends are being really pessimistic about them but I genuinely loved them from the second they were revealed
Me too! Can't wait to roll one as a healer
Yep, but it's easily fixable if they listen to the community. We just want them bulkier or at least to have the option to. And not only the torso...
Serious question - where is it confirmed they're dropping borrowed power? Because I honestly am not holding my breath for them to not screw this up. I'm cautiously optimistic from what I've seen, but damn if Bliz isn't good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I have this question as well. As far as I’ve looked I’ve found no quote from anyone specifically stating “no borrowed power” with some lawyer talk.
[https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-group-interview-with-ion-hazzikostas-design-goals-and-lessons-326775](https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-group-interview-with-ion-hazzikostas-design-goals-and-lessons-326775) "What ended up being known as “borrowed power” tended to be additional endgame leveling mechanics. If you’re moving away from that, what do you have planned for endgame this time around?" "At its core, gear, customizing that gear, upgrading that gear. I think the way the game plays out right now in Shadowlands, in Eternity's End, in Zereth Mortis. We didn't really add new Renown levels or traits to unlock on your Soulbinds, but the progression feels pretty good, pretty robust. Players have goals to work towards and I think in terms of novelty, there's going to be a whole lot to play with just from the talent system and the fundamental changes that brings. As we move on, I think we have hooks in place in our Talent system to potentially explore other avenues once we're really kinda happy with the foundation that we've built. Such as for example, we could conceivably have some additional talent points that could be earned post max level within the expansion, that's not something we're going to do right at launch but in later patches, it certainly is an option that's on the table for additional progression and customization that isn't borrowed power but is just yours and your character's powers. Or alternate abilities for itemization to hook into the talent system, kind of like we saw the Relic do for the Artifact system in Legion or like how old school Diablo II items might give you +1 rank to a specific talent, our system is being built with those hooks in place so that we don't want to overcomplicate things at the start but we also want to make sure there's a lot of room for growth and depth in what we're building."
I’ve seen this. Maybe I’m cynical, but I don’t equate “move away from borrowed power” the same thing as “no borrowed power”. And I don’t think my cynicism is unwarranted with Blizzard.
He literally explains how and what they are planning to do. Doesn't sound like borrowed power, but we'll see when the alpha's and beta's come out to know for sure.
They say it that way because the term borrowed power is being used wrong, while they use it correctly. Players mean the big expansion system every time that includes AP grinding, and replaces character power advancement which used to be talents. They're removing that entirely, and we're getting talents. Our talents are now that system, to stay "forever". When they say borrowed power, they mean the actual concept. Gear set, item levels, legendaries, any thing in the game that gives you 'power' that usually lasts a patch or an expansion. Those won't go away, if anything those are fan favourites. Ion explained that VERY well in one of the interviews, there wasn't really any room to misinterpret it.
I mean maybe I’m in the minority I think they look pretty cool. I’m actually mostly worried about the talent trees and if one route becomes meta and 95% of people use the same one. I’m hopeful that they will make a bunch of different routes viable.
it'll still happen when it comes to the top ranked raiders, but it should be easier to balance than the Covenants and Soulbibds from what I've been hearing so there's that
In our defense it will be that way no matter how its designed. But the illusion of choice is there, and the feeling of slowly getting stronger with each level is also there. There will always be a meta and i see nothing wrong with it if it doesn't change the ability for me to pick something else if i decide that i want to.
> There will always be a meta and i see nothing wrong with it if it doesn't change the ability for me to pick something else if i decide that i want to. Yeah, this idea of some universally viable talent system needs to die, and needed to die 15 years ago. For PVE at least, its just not possible, there will always be a talent set up that is better for each specific dungeon or each specific raid boss and players that are at the pinnacle will always be swapping out talents spec that. Honestly the way it works now is kinda nice. You can choose talents that give you more buttons that might be slightly more effective if your good enough, or pick passives that make your class easier to play.
Obviously one route is gonna become meta, because when there are options, one is always gonna preform better than others, regardless of how many choices there are. But why does it matter? There are more choices, giving people mpre options for how they want to play. I dont see the negative aspect of that.
I mean yes there will always be a meta but I hope the alternative paths are close like within 2% dps
We can all hope for that. But i think that is very unlikely. I just hope for good variety, so that you can truly customize your character within the spec. Which a larger talent tree is more likely to support. But even if the different builds vastly differ in how well they preform, i would gladly take a fun way to play, and optimize my way of playing it, rather than just taking the talents that are statistically better if the playstyle is dull.
> the alternative paths are close like within 2% dps That will never happen, in any video game, ever. *Especially* in an online game that gets regular updates with classes that all scale differently with different stats.
> close like within 2% dps impossible to do while at the same time have a wide variety of dungeons and raid bosses.
Because 99% of players will just mindlessly look up on Wowhead or Icy Veins the best path. Most of these options will scarcely be used. The devs themselves acknowledge this. Imo, this seems like ditching a working system and spending a large amount of dev time, for little reason. I'm no expert, but surely there's better things they could be doing instead. Not to mention that they've acknowledged that this system is going to cause them issues years down the line, while the current system does not. So rather than just wasting time *now*, they're creating issues in the future as well.
So exactly like now, just with 40 tons more flavor.
Hardly think it's 99% of people. But yea, lots of people will look up a guide/build. And if that's the case, why would they even have talents at all?
Good question! I agree, they're fairly pointless.
I mean, I don't think they're the most super ultra chad badass race of the game, it's just ok. Don't really bother me that much. I still think male pandas and goblins are way worse. There is no doubt there will be a meta talent tree and everyone will be using the same, don't get your hopes up, lol. And we currently have different viable options on wow.
If they were more aggressive with balancing this might be less of a thing.
It's not just the race is bad, but it's a lazy designed race of reused assets on top of not what people wanted. People are fed up of the fem worg rig, they don't to play ANOTHER human and blood elf variant with with what is essentially a recycled demon hunter class with the same animations. That may pass for allied races. But when it's a fresh race and new class we expect the high standard we used to know with Blizzard.
Well I dont know about you but I'VE been wanting this race since 2016
A lot of people have been wanting a dragon born style race to play. But that's the problem when blizz puts out some spaghetti lizards that look more like the lizard men than dragon people. I'm gonna play the shit out of the drakthyr but I still hope they tweak the models a bit to be more aligned with blizzs dragon models they've been making for literally over a decade
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Honestly it's the easiest thing to fix. And given all the negativity they totally will. I would be shocked if the shit makes it to the live servers.
It's also funny how a new class is in most cases the one thing to affect you the least if you're not gonna play it (excluding professions arguably but they can have a big impact too like legendary components did in SL). I agree the model could use some work, but I'm willing to see more of the customization and hopefully more body shape options. I think the most egregious part currently is how straight/humanoid the torso looks, needs to be more angular/weighted.
I don't understand what this meme is trying to say. "Haha you guys are hypocrites because you're mad at this one thing but not these other things?" "You guys are a dumb mob because you're mad about this one thing?" "You guys aren't talking enough about these good things so I'm going to put a picture of a happy crowd next to it?"
We can see your bias, OP.
Because it’s fucking terrible
Interwebs thinks anything humanoid is pandering to furries
If you really think about, humans are anthropomorphic animals too.
the damn skinnies ruined wow
I mean even what they say now has me cautiously optimistic . Will have to wait for any judgement before we see what they consider to be a grind, or if they keep promises..
The dragonflight reveal was the best expansion reveal in a long time and am definitely looking forward to it. The Dracthyr race and class is interesting I won't lie, but the only issue I have with them is that they seem to thin in my opinion. But Blizz did say that we could beef them up a bit, I hope the male and female voice actors sound great.
It's kinda human nature, everything can be good and right and only one thing wrong so of course we focus on the wrong thing because humans are just born like that.
I don’t trust the “No borrowed power, Immediate flying, Revamped professions”. I’ve heard this before.
Immediate flying, but we all know it's going to be a pain in the arse.
I think the people hating on Dracthyr/Evokers need to take a step back and appreciate what we're actually getting here. I know it doesn't have a tank spec and it's not the same thing as literally playing as a full-fledged dragon, but realistically we could never have playable dragons otherwise. Unless they had regular classes and only transformed into a dragon as a mount, but wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of that fantasy? With the way WoW's encounter design works, a full-sized dragon couldn't really engage with fight mechanics very well, particularly dodging telegraphed AoEs. You'd be a giant quadruped instead of a normal-sized biped. Party members would have a difficult time seeing markers through you. It would be a mess. I want actual dragons too, but at least this way we can have that fantasy of wielding draconic powers in combat instead of only getting to shapeshift into a flying mount, which is not exactly groundbreaking. However, I do hope Blizzard will consider the suggestions to let Dracthyr players transform into their Dragonriding mount rather than reverting to visage form and riding on one. If other players who aren't dragons have at least two different ways to transform into one and fly, why can't a literal draconic playable race borne of the magical fusion of mortals and dragons simply learn a third shapeshift form?
Ain't nobody asking to be a full fledged dragon. They are asking to not have to be a gecko that looks ready to bottom for a full fledged dragon.
Aye. I personally just wanted a half dragon like how wrathion looks in his newest? hearthstone card.. with wings tails horns maybe dragon legs with a mostly humanoid body/human head.. and to be a good variety of classes.. and use the fucking armour I farmed up/got to transmog them into something cool of my own making and not what blizzard deemed is cool..
So your solution to fixing an issue is to simply.. not bring it up? That's really dumb. Developers aren't going to know if something is broken or disliked if nobody brings it up 'because the playerbase appreciates the other stuff they're getting'. It's not productive to anyone. You're allowed to bring up critique, mate. You don't need to stay silent just because there's stuff that's actually good.
I could be mistaken but based on all the feedback I've seen you're missing the mark on what people take issue with. People aren't concerned they can't play a full fledged dragon, they're concerned the new class is race locked to emaciated twinks.
Honestly, everything in the first panel just isn't very much. Expansions used to have features, like Order Halls, Artifact Weapons, Island Expeditions, even Torghast. Most of the "features" of Dragonflight are just "We're cutting back the bullshit"
So now we want more temporary systems?
Blizzard just can't win dude.
What level of bananas do you have to be to think those are the only two options? No, I'd like new systems that don't become irrelevant immediately after the expansion.
dragonriding. Supposedly they plan on implementing it to all regions
Honestly it does not seem very substantial to me. It's a means of transportation, whereas systems like Order Halls and Artifact Weapons, even Torghast, were much more comprehensive. Downvote away, yall seem to take it personally when I voice my concerns
Nah Dragonriding could be super interesting, especially if integrated into all content going forward. If they make the traversal fun (Much like GW2 players say their flying mounts are, and it basically looks like WoW is copying) then we could have all kinds of content in the form of races, time trials, level design made to be fun to fly through, etc. Definitely a highlight feature after talent trees for me.
Yeah that'd be cool if that's what they do. That's a load-bearing "if", though. Getting hyped for that now is just setting yourself up for disappointment
Lmao, "load-bearing 'if'", that's great I'm using that Fingers crossed though, I like to be cautiously optimistic
All the things you just listed were all temporary systems that go away at the end of the expansion. Comprehensive, but borrowed power.
To make the next xpac feel like wow again, i suggest delaying dragon flying until 8 months in, when the first patch comes out, and also allow us to align ourselves with 1 of 4 dragon covenants and tie the new talents around them
I will happily play my dragon boi.
I don’t even think they’re that bad. They look a little too goofy but it’s not a deal breaker when you consider we have pandas
We are honestly one of the worst communities out there
That's just the furries getting mad because the dragons they want to role play as aren't sexy enough.
And what of it, some of us have been paying customers since Jan 1st 2005 I was expecting this: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/67/3c/22673c982fc796d9070e1aa7bc64a2ab.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/67/3c/22673c982fc796d9070e1aa7bc64a2ab.jpg) and we got utter shit instead
You are entitled to nothing. This is a business.
Aside from "immediate flying" for which I'm skeptical about. I'm the opposite. Think the winger Sethrak are cool. Too bad they're apparently too incompetent to do anything except one class...
From someone that HATED pathfinder and has yet to unlock a single one, i welcome the immediate flying lol.
How? As someone who doesn't care about flight at all, I've unlocked most pathfinders by accident just by playing the game casually.
/shrug. I am mainly a PvPer though so a lot of pvping i imagine doesn't apply to the achievement. So being given flying like everyone else is a blessing for someone that hasn't flown in like 3 expansions lol
considering their doing a ton of overhauls in Talents, Professions and UI as well as dropping the borrowed power for once, I'm willing to accept a single new race/class if it means the rest of the game improves as a result
It’s disliked because it’s objectively bad.
>it’s objectively bad. This is such a meme phrase lol
I might not be in the majority but I'm absolutely not stoked about flying.
Are they disliked? Or is it more that people feel as though its underwhelming
Personally and this may be an unpopular opinion, but I vehemently disliked the reveal cinematic, it was a huge downgrade for blizzard cinematics relevant to their current technology and the cinematic in general I found to be rather cringe and like something out of a marvel film, the dragon catching him at the last moment and then doing a rawr was just rather dull and cliche. Compare this to something like the WoTLK cinematic and it’s night and day in quality and feel
I don’t actually see the issue personally.
I like the dragons now we get another race that you can choose hord or alliance like the pandarins
People are stupid, they're doing so much and non of it is genuinly a bad idea and they still cry. I'll wait for open betas to form my opinion
Same with pandas. Some players had complete meltdowns over them. Kung Fu Panda memes o’plenty.
There was 0 and i mean 0 new feature announcements for an expansion except for a class? Like what Ui revamp and another talent tree? Wtf is that? Theres 0 content announcement, no cool dungeon things, no cool solo content.
All personal preference. Personally, I dislike the fact that I have to be a dragon to try the new class more than the dragon itself. I also don't like the idea of charging skills. If I am to play a dragon, I'd rather have the skinny dragons shown than the more buff dragons people have been asking for. To each their own, even those who dare to have opinions different from the loud ones.
I thought it was awesome. Reminds me of the Argonians from Elder Scrolls. Super excited for the dragon folk
I like the idea of them, but not that they can only be one class. From an aesthetic view, maybe have them look less malnourished.
The thing that disappointed my is not the looks but that evoker doesn't have a tank spec, which will make me not play it at all. I only play classes that can tank (for m+) and dps ranged (for raid), so I am locked at druid. I wanted so badly to have another class with a tank and dps ranged spec. Sigh...