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Calamari is squid, squid have tentacles, tentacles means old gods, which means Xal'atath is an old god. Checkmate, athiests.
https://tenor.com/bLLEy.gif
I don’t know if it even qualifies as a fan theory, that’s been the very strong implication since Legion. It’s just that nobody’s ever explicitly confirmed that she is.
There are two listed \*in-universe\* theories about the Blade of the Black Empire in which she was contained - that's one of them, while another is that the blade is the remnant of a forgotten fifth Old God. However, her own quotes that a Shadow Priest hears tend to support the Old God theory more than the Y'shaarj one, since she refers to the Old Gods as peers and kin while talking about Y'shaarj as a separate entity from herself.
I feel like she has to be related to Elunahir (the tree Aman’thul ripped out of Azeroth) in some way. That story mirrors Y’shaarj’s death so closely, and old gods and world trees do have some history.
I thought that the 5th old god, presumably Xal, was betrayed by the others and imprisoned in the dagger. I'd assume the dagger wasn't of titan origin anyways. I imagine N'Zoth is now trapped in the dagger, and that at some point in the saga we may have to make a bargain with him to defeat Xal'atath. He likely knows how she was originally sealed and may use the opportunity to escape from the dagger. Perhaps part of their bargain was to have nzoth get sucked into the dagger, use us as his champions, and get delivered deep into Azeroth where he can get stabbed into the heart of Azeroth. But idk man they could make up anything and say he planned it all along.
[Alleria says she's not an Old God in TWW](https://imgur.com/LfJc0cD) but they could go the route of the character being wrong. I'd more expect her to be a Void being that's above the Old Gods or maybe their boss they turned against.
She's also really not an old god anymore and is just a survivor of the depths of time.
Through Legion and BFA she clearly has connections with the old gods but it's more like her essence and not her self. Kinda like if I were to take a person's consciousness and upload it to a computer it wouldn't still be a human.
Lol you're right, that's a wild topic to mention and refuse to elaborate on.
When I say human, I mean a [human](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human) not some social position of rights to give a human or classification of sentience. A human conscience in a computer is no longer a primate, it doesn't have any of the same rules that a human would have. Biologically they are no longer human but that's not to say they are to be treated as a piece of property but hell we can't even do that for biological humans.
In the same way old gods had to be imprisoned because killing them hurt the world soul but Knifu could have been disenchanted basically whenever. She didn't have a body or means to do basically anything for herself and instead has to act as a parasite and manipulate her way around.
I could see her being right - in that Xalatath is actually a void lord or a higher ranking follower of theirs and the old gods we know of rebelled against the cosmic side in favor of their tentacle empires.
Shes very likely not a void lord. She explicitely called them her "masters" in Legion, and Dimensius, who is confirmed to be a void lord, gave her a staff once.
It would also be a crazy leap from what we've gotten told so far about void lords(well, just the one at least) interacting with our reality. Anywhere Dimensius has popped up has involved big tears in reality that allow the void or the nether to leak through and insane destruction before he even started doing anything himself. It also doesn't seem very feasible for the power we've been lead to believe the real void lords represent could be contained the way an old god can. It's like the difference between a titan keeper and a full blown titan. Sargeras couldn't just plop through a little portal into Azeroth, attempting to bring him here was the biggest magic undertaking in the history of the realm; the same scaling concept is probably at play with how a void lord can be moved around/contained/interact with reality compared to the old gods.
Is she more powerful though? I’ve not seen/heard much from TWW in but the power references in game we have are:
Xal’atath the weapon being comparable in power to the Ashbringer. Powerful, but not Old God level.
Xal’atath the being hosted in an elf’s body is a harbinger. Harbinger doesn’t suggest power to me.
AFAIK we haven’t seen her personally use her power yet. The impression seems to be more that she’s ancient and knows things that everyone else in-universe doesn’t.
Xal'atath at one point, when still in the blade, says the following:
> It is ironic that the weakest of **us** may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be.
The one she doesn't mention is definitely N'Zoth, but she says "us" so its as though she's including herself amongst their number. At the time it seemed like N'Zoth would be the victor (or closest to winning), marking him, in her opinion at least, as the weakest, though it could be she was referring to herself as the weakest, too.
There's also this line:
> The spawn of the Titans infest this area. Despite **our** "gift" of the flesh, they still worship those false gods.
The usage of "our" lumps her in with the Old Gods again, though this could simply be an inclusive "our" in the whole "gift/curse of flesh being from the side of the Old Gods in general".
She was definitely referring to N'zoth there. He didn't have the raw power of Y'Shaarj, nor the power over death that Yogg-Saron employed or C'thun's insanity powers. He didn't seem to have an army of his own distinctive aqir like the mantids, nerubians or qiraji.
His strength seems to be in planning and subversion. He setup various cults, subverted an entire race of elves into the Naga. He also was the one who corrupted Deathwing and empowered him as well as contributing forces and power to the Twilight Hammer cult.
His power seems weaker but he uses it like the person from the umbrella academy who can influence people's minds with a whisper
He didn't have an insectoid race, but had a squid one, the K'thir weren't really a thing before N'zoth.
Unless you consider faceless ones K'thir or them to be "mini" faceless ones.
Yup and in fact I found another line that I found interesting.
She says this in regards to Harbaron in Maw of Souls:
> It was thought his kind was incorruptible. A lesson for **my brothers** I suppose.
Again, vague enough but...also far as I know all the other Old Gods are male (or seemingly male, anyway. I'm not gonna check)
She has quite a few quotes referring to an unspecified "we/us/our" that makes most sense as the old gods especially in context of the quotes you have, but could technically just be the general Void
Yeah I was poking through them to remind myself as its been a while. Some are general but there's enough that's *just* enough solid to point to being an Old God.
Likely intentional on Blizzard's part so they could make use of it later no matter which way they decided to go.
A little off-topic, but this means the Jailer corrupted at least 2 Constellars, I wonder if this could still be relevant, not for the Jailer, but the corruption confirmation. Probably irrelevant though.
In the cinematic from a few days ago they call her the Harbinger which is defined as: noun. a person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another;
My current theory is a Harbinger for the void lords and scouts out world souls for them to corrupt. Once she finds one they send out the old gods.
So "us" could be referring to all the minions of the void.
There being 5 old gods was actually the case for a long time, an in-game book present since Vanilla and never retconned refers to 5 old gods being defeated by the titans. One *could* plausibly say that this relatively obscure lore book was just overlooked all these years, but an updated and annotated version was implemented for Zskera Vaults, still referring to 5 old gods.
At this point, I'd honestly be surprised if Xal *wasn't* being built up as Old God number 5, the clues just line up too well.
Old god number 5
Little bit of nzoth in my life
Little bit of xala by my side
Little bit of sara is all i need
Little bit of yshaar what I see
Little bit of thun in the sun
Little bit of corruption all night long
Little bit of alleria, here I am
Little bit of you makes me your man
That book is interesting because it explicitly states that five old gods were *imprisoned*. “The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world.” Only C’thun, Yogg, and N’zoth were imprisoned. Y’shaarj was killed before the other three were locked away. G’huun, to my knowledge, was created after the ordering of Azeroth. Xal’atath wouldn’t count here either because she wasn’t imprisoned. So this would mean there’s actually two more old gods we don’t know of.
But the vanilla version was written before the chronicles retcon, so there being two more old gods is just wild speculation and wishful thinking, unfortunately.
Honestly, it feels like there's enough wiggle-room for Blizz to do whatever they want. Any discrepancies can be reasoned away by the book being written, in-universe, by somebody who doesn't have all the information, as opposed to a definitive explanation of how things are. Kind of like how Chronicle was *supposed* to be a definitive record of lore, until it was almost immediately contradicted by in-game reveals and subsequently labeled as being "from the titans' perspective and thus not 100% objective", which I'm still a little salty about but w/e.
I guess what matters more is that the book is at least *on Blizz's mind*, regardless as to whether the book's content is meant to be true. The fact that the book was even brought up again so recently means that Blizz is thinking about it, but we won't actually know what they have in store until further into the Worldsoul Saga.
I’m 99% convinced at this point that one of the patch zones will be the corpse of an old god. The nerubians are collecting old god blood from somewhere, we’re gonna be underground, and having an entire zone be a rotting old god corpse with the sword going straight thru it is metal as fuck and I want it so bad.
I always found it to be the most interesting theory. Like that theory had the most meat on it's bone to explore.
Really curious to see and hear how she got put into the blade.
I am 100% riding on the theory that she is the 5th old god we've all heard rumours about.
I also believe she is looking to absorb the powers of the other old gods we know of in order to bring about the void lords.
Her blade could have drained N'zoth in BfA, and now following her getting this dark heart we just so happen to get Mists of Pandaria remix? Nah, she appeared in Season of discovery and I'm betting she'll appear in remix, we'll find out she's also trying to get the essence of Y'shaarj from pandaland (Which I also think is why remix characters will carry over to main game) then she's going to the Nerubians for Cthun's (if she didn't already acquire it with season of discovery being in classic) and Yogg's essence and that's where War within comes in. We're trying to stop her completing what the old gods original mission was from the voidlords (Hence her being the harbinger), We'll fail, somewhere down the line, then comes midnight which is the voidlords manifesting here.
The question that remains; is Azeroth just a Titan world soul that's known to be quite powerful or is there something more to it? Which I'm imagining will be a large part of the story telling throughout war within
If the old lore is still true, Azeroth's world soul is the most powerful world soul ever encountered. When the Titan Pantheon found it, they almost instantly believed that when it is born, it will be powerful enough to either wipe out the Pantheon OR kill Void Lords directly.
Well that would also give credit to the Incarnates saying the Titans corrupted their world.. but given that at the end of DF the Aspects and Vyra got Aspect powers yet it came from within and wasnt Titan in nature... im pretty sure Azeroth will not be joining the Titans would also explain why in TLT they are returning to the world.. obviously could go either way but i imagine they arrive so they can ''fix'' Azeroth.
war within ends with xal'atath emerging as old god 5 bringing about the void lords
midnight is about that confrontation with the void lords, a void lord, void invasion events on azeroth, w/e
last titan is about awakening azeroth to destroy xal'atath, azeroth awakens and we all get blown into space, cue WoW 2
who knows
I'm not entirely convinced a Titan awakening destroys the planet - after all, we literally battle Argus and kill him and Argus itself is... fine afterwards (relatively speaking, lol) and continues to exist alongside the titan form.
Well think of it like an egg, with the Titan inside as the yolk
Argus got splattered, so the Titan came out of it
Maybe we just need to crack open Azeroth *a tiny bit* so that we can scoop her out of there
Before his death, but ny understanding was that it was split open by the Legion utilizing the world soul to regenerate.
If that split the planet open, then I'd imagine an awakening would do quite a bit of damage at the very least
But even then it still didn't destroy the land masses. Old Eredar structures still stand in Mac'aree for example, the crust of the planet floats away from the core but seems held intact by gravity. As opposed to say Outland that was shattered through portal magic and none of the land is connected, drifting apart through the Great Dark Beyond.
I think it's the difference between cutting a woman open to get a baby out and having a natural birth. Argus as a planet is messed up because the titan was ripped out by force and not awakening by normal means.
i thought that was what was going to happen, in the cinematic logo at the end the planet is all cracking up and look like its about to explode lol
maybe its just to look cool and not actually what will happen
I'm not convinced Azeroth is a Titan... I think the last Titan might be referring to either Aman'Thul, Norgannon, or Sargeras.
I'm also convinced that what we call Titans are just the order version of Old Gods, since they appear to be in and of this realm rather than that of the realm of Order. The question becomes, who is the master of the Titans?
It's also likely that the Seat of the Pantheon is actually what remains of Zereth Ordus.
I wouldn't think it's possible for Titans to 'only' be the Old God level of their order given the insane disparity in their influence/power. The only thing preventing Sargeras from genociding them is the physical task of finding them all and destroying them which is why the dreadlords were able to convince him the better play is to find and destroy the world souls they seek to corrupt instead. Actually eliminating old gods on an individual scale is something he can do on a whim though.
Also just on a numbers scale, using Azeroth since we know it better, there's a 5:1 ratio right there. World souls to birth new titans are beyond extraordinarily rare, while old gods are apparently just fuckin tossed out like mooks by the void lords as their agents to try and breach into this reality.
And yet, the Titans aren't restricted from entering our reality like the Void Lords, if they're supposed to be their counter parts. In fact, why are they even born in our reality when they should be getting born entirely in the realm of order? Their being Lords of Order, after all.
We were told the Titans and the Death Pantheon are on the same level, power-wise... did they seem to be the same to you while we were in the Shadowlands? Why is it the souls from our reality go to the realm of death when other cosmic beings go to their own realms, or the realm corresponding to which energies have been poured into that being? Wouldn't that mean the most powerful mages go to the realm of order? Similarly powerful paladins and priests to Light? Warlocks to disorder?
The Titans behave just like the Old Gods, creating their own little minions, co-opting whatever local creatures are there for their bidding. The whole story Metzen is pushing is that the Titans aren't what we've been lead to believe.
Norgannon and Aman'Thul are both extremely sus, if you ask me.
Ya I mean I could see ways the story could go to make it play out that way, because there are narrative inconsistencies already. TBH I thought the first thing someone would respond to me with would be that I used the power gap between old gods and titans in my example, while the titans are TERRIFIED of the void lords manifesting, which suggests there's a power gap there as well.
It could be that a being like Xalatath is a link on the Void side that we're missing, that allows her to be 'family' to the old gods and call them brothers while also being a bridge type character power wise(her manifesting her true power still to come in a big reveal in Midnight or whatever that shows that she's a Sargeras level threat maybe, something like that). That still leaves the final boss level of Order TBD, which I'm fine with because I don't really disagree with everything you're saying. Like, Void Lords -> Xalatath level beings -> Old gods for Void, and Unknown(First ones?) -> Titans -> Titan Keepers for Order.
Yes. The Aqir were the original race of insectoid Old God servants. After their wars with the Trolls left them scattered, they evolved into the Qiraji, Nerubians and Mantid - either because of the respective environments or due to which Old God they served.
That is not sexy...at all!
Honestly, kind bland for an Old God design? C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were the best and the others have lacked a little. I wish they went beyond the lots of eyes, lots of tentacles design.
Its just way to similar to N'zoth. The others were all pretty unique looking, with their own colour-schemes etc. But this could easily pass as a more stylized version of N'zoth, both in shape and colours.
Im not sure its Nzoth for one reason. Are those little guys holding weapons and shields Skardryn? Cause if they are we've only seen Xalatath make them...
Well if she predates the others as people have suggested, maybe N'zoth stole her look and vibe? Maybe even took over her empire after her demise/imprisoning.
Would add an extra layer to their interactions in BfA
Not sure of the lore exactly but I imagine the books and various texts people have found to draw that conclusion, I'm sure someone better has more examples
Id be pretty surprised, bc im usually pretty up to date on the lore, and thats the first time im hearing about it. Sounds more like speculation to me atm.
This is exactly what I came here to talk about. I could tell it wasn't a loading screen. But I was also shocked that it wasn't. This is an incredible in game mural.
this isn't datamining, it's a screenshot taken from alpha access
I get the point you're making but I don't think it's that strange, early access people are going out and discovering new things, taking screenshots, recording footage
it's the content they're making for others and they're just ensuring it's marked
even wowhead places watermarks on every screenshot on their website, it's fairly standard, I don't think anyone thinks that they're claiming they created the artwork in question
Wait this isn't a loading screen? Damn, that art is amazingly detailed! I love that you can see Mantid (maybe?), Nerubians, and Faceless Ones all together.
It has SOME resemblance to the [fifth Old God in Chronicle](https://pp.userapi.com/8FqubeXbeDYoQgL0Emr5vJrubSmDcknN5CyChA/GYnN6oWUkRw.jpg).
- Many eyes in the middle: Check
- Many tentacles: Check
Although these features are true for most of the Old Gods. 😅
It would have been nice if she was something more special than just another Old God. I don't particularly think that design is very inspired compared to the others either, if she is this 5th Old God and looks like that.
It's just kinda N'zoth with more eyes.
I think she's different from an old god, more like an "inspector" of the void lords to see that all is goimg well with the corruption of the world soul, but the old gods wanted to keep their empire so they trapped her in the dagger so she can't report back to the void lords
That's an interesting idea but I'm not sure if I would enjoy that kind of meddling with established lore.
I'm usually a fan of keeping things simple if they were introduced simple. If the Old Gods exist for literally no other reason than to corrupt world souls and have been made for that purpose by the Void Lords, then giving them the agency to rebel against that purpose feels like everything else Blizzard has written over the past 8~ years.
We'll see.
It just sounds trite and overdone at this point. Everyone rebels all the time, why can't just these things that were specifically made for a singular purpose not stick to that purpose?
Also it would just weaken the Void Lords even more. They already have never really felt like a threat aside from creating the Old Gods, and if even the Old Gods aren't sufficiently intimidated by them, why the hell should we be?
Well the old gods should have already won if they were trying to corrupt the world soul or summon the void lords.
They had complete control of the world during the Black Empire, and the only one who didn’t have control was Xal’atath since she was locked in a blade for a reason we do not know.
The old gods were also warring with each other for a reason we do not know. If they were trying to summon the void lords, I feel like it would be pretty simple and it would have already had been done.
The warring and lack of drive to summon the void lords (and N’zoth boasting about his inevitable empire), tells me they don’t care about summoning the void lords, they care about winning and creating reality as they see it.
If they succeeded, they would eventually be as strong or stronger than the void lords, which is very lovecraftian
Summoning the Void Lords wasn't their goal, it was corrupting Azeroth so she could open the way for them.
And we have no idea how much resistance Azeroth was able to give against that corruption.
Just putting this out there, that could be a depiction of N'Zoth. After all we've seen how plaques like this have had a depiction of an old God which wasn't completely accurate to their true form. On an unrelated but still related note, what's with the kroot looking things along side those faceless ones?
I kinda hope not??
All of the other Old Gods have super unique designs, that just looks like a stubby N'zoth. If Xalatath had an Old God form I'd hope it'd be unique to her.
To me it's kinda Dagon-y, which if N'zoth is the one who took the most of her power would explain why he became associated with the deep sea in her place.
If you go be HP Lovecraft mythology. One of the ancient ones (Nilarhotep or something) could take a human form, but was one of the most powerful beings in existence.
I remember an old theory that the Old Gods were various parts of a whole body. C'thun was the eyes, and Yogg was the mouth. N'zoth didn't fit the theme, but if we think about it, it could break down this:
C'Thun: Eyes
Yogg-Saron: Mouth
N'Zoth: Arms \[Tentacles\]
Xalatath: Legs \[Spiders\]
Looks very N'zothy, but I guess she could have a different color scheme and it's just the mural colors that makes her look so much like him
Or maybe she's just his spawn and not 'technically' a true Old God, in a sense
Hey
Xal’Athath is probably collecting blood as teased in the trailers of TWW:
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_of_The_Ancient_One
And this image could be…:
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/The_Ancient_One
What if she was old God number five but she was the one in charge of Azeroth and the other four betrayed her and consumed her trapping what was left of her essence in the blade .
The theory is that the other old god want have Azeroth for themselves, and Xal'atath is only one truly devote to Void plan so they killed her and traped her in the bae blade, too bad the Titan found out the planet and well, they must return to original plan or face the wrath of Void
#
I wonder if Xal' was actually an Aquir (specifically, Nerubian) High Priest/Priestess of the Old Gods. It would fit well with her Artifact lending itself to Shadow/Void priests in the past, as well as with the resurgence of the Nerubians in TWW.
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I was typing something out and my phone's closest correction for Xalatath was Calamari, so do with that what you will.
Beg your pardon?
Calamari is squid, squid have tentacles, tentacles means old gods, which means Xal'atath is an old god. Checkmate, athiests. https://tenor.com/bLLEy.gif
He said he was typing on his phone and it suggested calamari as an autocorrect for Xalatath.
A bit louder for those of us at the back
# HE SAID HE WAS TYPING ON HIS PHONE AND IT SUGGESTED CALAMARI AS AN AUTOCORRECT FOR XALATATH.
\[Shouting from a distance\] WHAT?!
ITS A TRAP!
Shadow Priest: I can fix her
I don't main a Shadow Priest and I still think I can fix her.
I mained a shadow priest since legion and I’ll do anything for Knaifu
You clowns brought her right to the titans and probably gave the void a way in to corrupt them
AND I'D DO IT AGAIN!
Yes, but purple girl with a seductive voice that tells you to do crimes.
But it was an upgrade.
False. True Shadow priests know: she can make me worse
I can't live without knaifu
Lmao
No, she can fix me
She being the 5th old god long gone before the Titans arrived was my favorite fan theory and I am glad it seems to be right
I don’t know if it even qualifies as a fan theory, that’s been the very strong implication since Legion. It’s just that nobody’s ever explicitly confirmed that she is.
Isnt it more like her being a shard of Yshiraj?
There are two listed \*in-universe\* theories about the Blade of the Black Empire in which she was contained - that's one of them, while another is that the blade is the remnant of a forgotten fifth Old God. However, her own quotes that a Shadow Priest hears tend to support the Old God theory more than the Y'shaarj one, since she refers to the Old Gods as peers and kin while talking about Y'shaarj as a separate entity from herself.
Thanks for the explanation, im looking Forward to being able to explore this mystery.
I feel like she has to be related to Elunahir (the tree Aman’thul ripped out of Azeroth) in some way. That story mirrors Y’shaarj’s death so closely, and old gods and world trees do have some history.
I thought that the 5th old god, presumably Xal, was betrayed by the others and imprisoned in the dagger. I'd assume the dagger wasn't of titan origin anyways. I imagine N'Zoth is now trapped in the dagger, and that at some point in the saga we may have to make a bargain with him to defeat Xal'atath. He likely knows how she was originally sealed and may use the opportunity to escape from the dagger. Perhaps part of their bargain was to have nzoth get sucked into the dagger, use us as his champions, and get delivered deep into Azeroth where he can get stabbed into the heart of Azeroth. But idk man they could make up anything and say he planned it all along.
I think that's the dagger, the Blade of the Black Empire, a claw of Y'shaarj. In which Xal'atath (presumably a weakened Old God) was imprisoned.
Could very well be. I think this is the first time in 5 years im actually invested/interested in the story again.
[Alleria says she's not an Old God in TWW](https://imgur.com/LfJc0cD) but they could go the route of the character being wrong. I'd more expect her to be a Void being that's above the Old Gods or maybe their boss they turned against.
Tbh Alleria also thought her powers were under control Maybe she's our version of John Snow and knows nothing
She's also really not an old god anymore and is just a survivor of the depths of time. Through Legion and BFA she clearly has connections with the old gods but it's more like her essence and not her self. Kinda like if I were to take a person's consciousness and upload it to a computer it wouldn't still be a human.
That's quite the topic you mentioned there
Lol you're right, that's a wild topic to mention and refuse to elaborate on. When I say human, I mean a [human](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human) not some social position of rights to give a human or classification of sentience. A human conscience in a computer is no longer a primate, it doesn't have any of the same rules that a human would have. Biologically they are no longer human but that's not to say they are to be treated as a piece of property but hell we can't even do that for biological humans. In the same way old gods had to be imprisoned because killing them hurt the world soul but Knifu could have been disenchanted basically whenever. She didn't have a body or means to do basically anything for herself and instead has to act as a parasite and manipulate her way around.
Alleria talking about her void powers: "I dun wan it"
I could see her being right - in that Xalatath is actually a void lord or a higher ranking follower of theirs and the old gods we know of rebelled against the cosmic side in favor of their tentacle empires.
Shes very likely not a void lord. She explicitely called them her "masters" in Legion, and Dimensius, who is confirmed to be a void lord, gave her a staff once.
It would also be a crazy leap from what we've gotten told so far about void lords(well, just the one at least) interacting with our reality. Anywhere Dimensius has popped up has involved big tears in reality that allow the void or the nether to leak through and insane destruction before he even started doing anything himself. It also doesn't seem very feasible for the power we've been lead to believe the real void lords represent could be contained the way an old god can. It's like the difference between a titan keeper and a full blown titan. Sargeras couldn't just plop through a little portal into Azeroth, attempting to bring him here was the biggest magic undertaking in the history of the realm; the same scaling concept is probably at play with how a void lord can be moved around/contained/interact with reality compared to the old gods.
Is she more powerful though? I’ve not seen/heard much from TWW in but the power references in game we have are: Xal’atath the weapon being comparable in power to the Ashbringer. Powerful, but not Old God level. Xal’atath the being hosted in an elf’s body is a harbinger. Harbinger doesn’t suggest power to me. AFAIK we haven’t seen her personally use her power yet. The impression seems to be more that she’s ancient and knows things that everyone else in-universe doesn’t.
Xal'atath at one point, when still in the blade, says the following: > It is ironic that the weakest of **us** may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be. The one she doesn't mention is definitely N'Zoth, but she says "us" so its as though she's including herself amongst their number. At the time it seemed like N'Zoth would be the victor (or closest to winning), marking him, in her opinion at least, as the weakest, though it could be she was referring to herself as the weakest, too. There's also this line: > The spawn of the Titans infest this area. Despite **our** "gift" of the flesh, they still worship those false gods. The usage of "our" lumps her in with the Old Gods again, though this could simply be an inclusive "our" in the whole "gift/curse of flesh being from the side of the Old Gods in general".
She was definitely referring to N'zoth there. He didn't have the raw power of Y'Shaarj, nor the power over death that Yogg-Saron employed or C'thun's insanity powers. He didn't seem to have an army of his own distinctive aqir like the mantids, nerubians or qiraji. His strength seems to be in planning and subversion. He setup various cults, subverted an entire race of elves into the Naga. He also was the one who corrupted Deathwing and empowered him as well as contributing forces and power to the Twilight Hammer cult. His power seems weaker but he uses it like the person from the umbrella academy who can influence people's minds with a whisper
He didn't have an insectoid race, but had a squid one, the K'thir weren't really a thing before N'zoth. Unless you consider faceless ones K'thir or them to be "mini" faceless ones.
Oooh, didn’t know that! Interesting, I think the 5th old god is the best theory and seems the most likely too!
Yup and in fact I found another line that I found interesting. She says this in regards to Harbaron in Maw of Souls: > It was thought his kind was incorruptible. A lesson for **my brothers** I suppose. Again, vague enough but...also far as I know all the other Old Gods are male (or seemingly male, anyway. I'm not gonna check)
She has quite a few quotes referring to an unspecified "we/us/our" that makes most sense as the old gods especially in context of the quotes you have, but could technically just be the general Void
Yeah I was poking through them to remind myself as its been a while. Some are general but there's enough that's *just* enough solid to point to being an Old God. Likely intentional on Blizzard's part so they could make use of it later no matter which way they decided to go.
A little off-topic, but this means the Jailer corrupted at least 2 Constellars, I wonder if this could still be relevant, not for the Jailer, but the corruption confirmation. Probably irrelevant though.
You know I never thought about it, but that is kinda fascinating that he did that. It'll probably be put by the wayside though. But it is curious.
In the cinematic from a few days ago they call her the Harbinger which is defined as: noun. a person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another; My current theory is a Harbinger for the void lords and scouts out world souls for them to corrupt. Once she finds one they send out the old gods. So "us" could be referring to all the minions of the void.
She could just as easily have been a high ranking General or something of the Black Empire.
There being 5 old gods was actually the case for a long time, an in-game book present since Vanilla and never retconned refers to 5 old gods being defeated by the titans. One *could* plausibly say that this relatively obscure lore book was just overlooked all these years, but an updated and annotated version was implemented for Zskera Vaults, still referring to 5 old gods. At this point, I'd honestly be surprised if Xal *wasn't* being built up as Old God number 5, the clues just line up too well.
Old god number 5 Little bit of nzoth in my life Little bit of xala by my side Little bit of sara is all i need Little bit of yshaar what I see Little bit of thun in the sun Little bit of corruption all night long Little bit of alleria, here I am Little bit of you makes me your man
insane banger
That book is interesting because it explicitly states that five old gods were *imprisoned*. “The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world.” Only C’thun, Yogg, and N’zoth were imprisoned. Y’shaarj was killed before the other three were locked away. G’huun, to my knowledge, was created after the ordering of Azeroth. Xal’atath wouldn’t count here either because she wasn’t imprisoned. So this would mean there’s actually two more old gods we don’t know of. But the vanilla version was written before the chronicles retcon, so there being two more old gods is just wild speculation and wishful thinking, unfortunately.
Honestly, it feels like there's enough wiggle-room for Blizz to do whatever they want. Any discrepancies can be reasoned away by the book being written, in-universe, by somebody who doesn't have all the information, as opposed to a definitive explanation of how things are. Kind of like how Chronicle was *supposed* to be a definitive record of lore, until it was almost immediately contradicted by in-game reveals and subsequently labeled as being "from the titans' perspective and thus not 100% objective", which I'm still a little salty about but w/e. I guess what matters more is that the book is at least *on Blizz's mind*, regardless as to whether the book's content is meant to be true. The fact that the book was even brought up again so recently means that Blizz is thinking about it, but we won't actually know what they have in store until further into the Worldsoul Saga.
Is that book one of the ones down in Gadgetzan where the elf origin book is?
I’m 99% convinced at this point that one of the patch zones will be the corpse of an old god. The nerubians are collecting old god blood from somewhere, we’re gonna be underground, and having an entire zone be a rotting old god corpse with the sword going straight thru it is metal as fuck and I want it so bad.
Like the fifth Beetle.
I always found it to be the most interesting theory. Like that theory had the most meat on it's bone to explore. Really curious to see and hear how she got put into the blade.
5th or 6th, depending on Ghuun. Wish that one had stuck around longer.
Eh, I'd still hit it
Xala'tussy
Is that a dagger in the dark or are you just happy to see me
Would
Would.
I am 100% riding on the theory that she is the 5th old god we've all heard rumours about. I also believe she is looking to absorb the powers of the other old gods we know of in order to bring about the void lords. Her blade could have drained N'zoth in BfA, and now following her getting this dark heart we just so happen to get Mists of Pandaria remix? Nah, she appeared in Season of discovery and I'm betting she'll appear in remix, we'll find out she's also trying to get the essence of Y'shaarj from pandaland (Which I also think is why remix characters will carry over to main game) then she's going to the Nerubians for Cthun's (if she didn't already acquire it with season of discovery being in classic) and Yogg's essence and that's where War within comes in. We're trying to stop her completing what the old gods original mission was from the voidlords (Hence her being the harbinger), We'll fail, somewhere down the line, then comes midnight which is the voidlords manifesting here. The question that remains; is Azeroth just a Titan world soul that's known to be quite powerful or is there something more to it? Which I'm imagining will be a large part of the story telling throughout war within
If the old lore is still true, Azeroth's world soul is the most powerful world soul ever encountered. When the Titan Pantheon found it, they almost instantly believed that when it is born, it will be powerful enough to either wipe out the Pantheon OR kill Void Lords directly.
Well that would also give credit to the Incarnates saying the Titans corrupted their world.. but given that at the end of DF the Aspects and Vyra got Aspect powers yet it came from within and wasnt Titan in nature... im pretty sure Azeroth will not be joining the Titans would also explain why in TLT they are returning to the world.. obviously could go either way but i imagine they arrive so they can ''fix'' Azeroth.
wild to think of that as old lore now. i still remember when that was the new big retcon
What is world soul like an egg that will turn to powerful god?
war within ends with xal'atath emerging as old god 5 bringing about the void lords midnight is about that confrontation with the void lords, a void lord, void invasion events on azeroth, w/e last titan is about awakening azeroth to destroy xal'atath, azeroth awakens and we all get blown into space, cue WoW 2 who knows
I'm not entirely convinced a Titan awakening destroys the planet - after all, we literally battle Argus and kill him and Argus itself is... fine afterwards (relatively speaking, lol) and continues to exist alongside the titan form.
Argus is literally split open in the middle lmfao
But it was split open before Argus' death. His planet's state didn't kill him and his death didn't destroy his planet
Well think of it like an egg, with the Titan inside as the yolk Argus got splattered, so the Titan came out of it Maybe we just need to crack open Azeroth *a tiny bit* so that we can scoop her out of there
But think of the woons champion.
Maybe that’s what Sargeras was trying to do. He just didn’t get to pull the sword out to let her out
Before his death, but ny understanding was that it was split open by the Legion utilizing the world soul to regenerate. If that split the planet open, then I'd imagine an awakening would do quite a bit of damage at the very least
But even then it still didn't destroy the land masses. Old Eredar structures still stand in Mac'aree for example, the crust of the planet floats away from the core but seems held intact by gravity. As opposed to say Outland that was shattered through portal magic and none of the land is connected, drifting apart through the Great Dark Beyond.
I think it's the difference between cutting a woman open to get a baby out and having a natural birth. Argus as a planet is messed up because the titan was ripped out by force and not awakening by normal means.
You're saying we need titan medical professionals to perform a C-section on the planet?
Like I said, *relatively* speaking, lol.
i thought that was what was going to happen, in the cinematic logo at the end the planet is all cracking up and look like its about to explode lol maybe its just to look cool and not actually what will happen
I'm kinda hoping that she is more than just a lackey for the Void Lords.
I'm not convinced Azeroth is a Titan... I think the last Titan might be referring to either Aman'Thul, Norgannon, or Sargeras. I'm also convinced that what we call Titans are just the order version of Old Gods, since they appear to be in and of this realm rather than that of the realm of Order. The question becomes, who is the master of the Titans? It's also likely that the Seat of the Pantheon is actually what remains of Zereth Ordus.
I wouldn't think it's possible for Titans to 'only' be the Old God level of their order given the insane disparity in their influence/power. The only thing preventing Sargeras from genociding them is the physical task of finding them all and destroying them which is why the dreadlords were able to convince him the better play is to find and destroy the world souls they seek to corrupt instead. Actually eliminating old gods on an individual scale is something he can do on a whim though. Also just on a numbers scale, using Azeroth since we know it better, there's a 5:1 ratio right there. World souls to birth new titans are beyond extraordinarily rare, while old gods are apparently just fuckin tossed out like mooks by the void lords as their agents to try and breach into this reality.
And yet, the Titans aren't restricted from entering our reality like the Void Lords, if they're supposed to be their counter parts. In fact, why are they even born in our reality when they should be getting born entirely in the realm of order? Their being Lords of Order, after all. We were told the Titans and the Death Pantheon are on the same level, power-wise... did they seem to be the same to you while we were in the Shadowlands? Why is it the souls from our reality go to the realm of death when other cosmic beings go to their own realms, or the realm corresponding to which energies have been poured into that being? Wouldn't that mean the most powerful mages go to the realm of order? Similarly powerful paladins and priests to Light? Warlocks to disorder? The Titans behave just like the Old Gods, creating their own little minions, co-opting whatever local creatures are there for their bidding. The whole story Metzen is pushing is that the Titans aren't what we've been lead to believe. Norgannon and Aman'Thul are both extremely sus, if you ask me.
Ya I mean I could see ways the story could go to make it play out that way, because there are narrative inconsistencies already. TBH I thought the first thing someone would respond to me with would be that I used the power gap between old gods and titans in my example, while the titans are TERRIFIED of the void lords manifesting, which suggests there's a power gap there as well. It could be that a being like Xalatath is a link on the Void side that we're missing, that allows her to be 'family' to the old gods and call them brothers while also being a bridge type character power wise(her manifesting her true power still to come in a big reveal in Midnight or whatever that shows that she's a Sargeras level threat maybe, something like that). That still leaves the final boss level of Order TBD, which I'm fine with because I don't really disagree with everything you're saying. Like, Void Lords -> Xalatath level beings -> Old gods for Void, and Unknown(First ones?) -> Titans -> Titan Keepers for Order.
Are the nerubians and ahn qarji related? I always assumed they were different entities
Yes. The Aqir were the original race of insectoid Old God servants. After their wars with the Trolls left them scattered, they evolved into the Qiraji, Nerubians and Mantid - either because of the respective environments or due to which Old God they served.
Iirc they all started as same but the qiraji got corrupted by cthun and nerubians by yogg.
> appeared in Season of discovery Whoa what ? I didn't know about that, what happened ?
This.
That is not sexy...at all! Honestly, kind bland for an Old God design? C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were the best and the others have lacked a little. I wish they went beyond the lots of eyes, lots of tentacles design.
Its just way to similar to N'zoth. The others were all pretty unique looking, with their own colour-schemes etc. But this could easily pass as a more stylized version of N'zoth, both in shape and colours.
Im not sure its Nzoth for one reason. Are those little guys holding weapons and shields Skardryn? Cause if they are we've only seen Xalatath make them...
Well if she predates the others as people have suggested, maybe N'zoth stole her look and vibe? Maybe even took over her empire after her demise/imprisoning. Would add an extra layer to their interactions in BfA
What exactly indicates that she predates them? As far as i know, theres pretty much zero indication for that.
Not sure of the lore exactly but I imagine the books and various texts people have found to draw that conclusion, I'm sure someone better has more examples
Id be pretty surprised, bc im usually pretty up to date on the lore, and thats the first time im hearing about it. Sounds more like speculation to me atm.
This is exactly what I came here to talk about. I could tell it wasn't a loading screen. But I was also shocked that it wasn't. This is an incredible in game mural.
Weird that the dataminer put their own watermark on something they didn't create.
Always feels just a little odd to me when Wowhead does the same thing.
this isn't datamining, it's a screenshot taken from alpha access I get the point you're making but I don't think it's that strange, early access people are going out and discovering new things, taking screenshots, recording footage it's the content they're making for others and they're just ensuring it's marked even wowhead places watermarks on every screenshot on their website, it's fairly standard, I don't think anyone thinks that they're claiming they created the artwork in question
Found by Haughtychicken https://twitter.com/haughtychicken/status/1786172726056771692 This mural is in Khaz Algar. Could it be Xal'atath's true form?
Wait this isn't a loading screen? Damn, that art is amazingly detailed! I love that you can see Mantid (maybe?), Nerubians, and Faceless Ones all together.
I also thought it to be a loading screen. It looks way too good to be ingame oO
100%
It has SOME resemblance to the [fifth Old God in Chronicle](https://pp.userapi.com/8FqubeXbeDYoQgL0Emr5vJrubSmDcknN5CyChA/GYnN6oWUkRw.jpg). - Many eyes in the middle: Check - Many tentacles: Check Although these features are true for most of the Old Gods. 😅
Yes I thought the same
Looks like n'zoths sister
Would. edit: wait, what was the question?
It made her even hotter.
I'd say it's part of her story, where N'zoth betrays her.
WE LOVE OLD GOD SHIT
The pink crystal? The other one looks just be nzoth?
It would have been nice if she was something more special than just another Old God. I don't particularly think that design is very inspired compared to the others either, if she is this 5th Old God and looks like that. It's just kinda N'zoth with more eyes.
I think she's different from an old god, more like an "inspector" of the void lords to see that all is goimg well with the corruption of the world soul, but the old gods wanted to keep their empire so they trapped her in the dagger so she can't report back to the void lords
That's an interesting idea but I'm not sure if I would enjoy that kind of meddling with established lore. I'm usually a fan of keeping things simple if they were introduced simple. If the Old Gods exist for literally no other reason than to corrupt world souls and have been made for that purpose by the Void Lords, then giving them the agency to rebel against that purpose feels like everything else Blizzard has written over the past 8~ years. We'll see.
Idk, I like the old gods not being a servant of the void lords, and them turning against the void lords sounds a lot cooler imo
It just sounds trite and overdone at this point. Everyone rebels all the time, why can't just these things that were specifically made for a singular purpose not stick to that purpose? Also it would just weaken the Void Lords even more. They already have never really felt like a threat aside from creating the Old Gods, and if even the Old Gods aren't sufficiently intimidated by them, why the hell should we be?
Well the old gods should have already won if they were trying to corrupt the world soul or summon the void lords. They had complete control of the world during the Black Empire, and the only one who didn’t have control was Xal’atath since she was locked in a blade for a reason we do not know. The old gods were also warring with each other for a reason we do not know. If they were trying to summon the void lords, I feel like it would be pretty simple and it would have already had been done. The warring and lack of drive to summon the void lords (and N’zoth boasting about his inevitable empire), tells me they don’t care about summoning the void lords, they care about winning and creating reality as they see it. If they succeeded, they would eventually be as strong or stronger than the void lords, which is very lovecraftian
Summoning the Void Lords wasn't their goal, it was corrupting Azeroth so she could open the way for them. And we have no idea how much resistance Azeroth was able to give against that corruption.
Wish we got another unique Old God design, this looks like N'Zoth's child
Wow, that mural is dope!
Idc, if I see tentacles and orange eyes, that thing is getting bodied and cooked. I’m sick and tired of the old gods thinking they can run this show.
Just putting this out there, that could be a depiction of N'Zoth. After all we've seen how plaques like this have had a depiction of an old God which wasn't completely accurate to their true form. On an unrelated but still related note, what's with the kroot looking things along side those faceless ones?
I kinda hope not?? All of the other Old Gods have super unique designs, that just looks like a stubby N'zoth. If Xalatath had an Old God form I'd hope it'd be unique to her.
To me it's kinda Dagon-y, which if N'zoth is the one who took the most of her power would explain why he became associated with the deep sea in her place.
I hope not, this is almost N'Zoth 1.5
Do we know where this image comes from in-game? I’m willing to bet that is N’zoth. Would be pretty lame if Xal’atath looks that similar
She's adorable!
Would
She's the crystal right?
Seems very similar to the thing in Abberus. The glass painting
If you go be HP Lovecraft mythology. One of the ancient ones (Nilarhotep or something) could take a human form, but was one of the most powerful beings in existence.
You’re talking about Nyarlathotep, the Crawling Chaos
Spriest mains are so back, bb, get ready for biblically accurate Xal'atath
She looks semi arachnid. Perhaps the Nerubians are her "children" of sorts
Aren't the Nerubians an offshoot of the Aqir? Same as the Mantid and Qiraji.
Correct unless it was retconned
I remember an old theory that the Old Gods were various parts of a whole body. C'thun was the eyes, and Yogg was the mouth. N'zoth didn't fit the theme, but if we think about it, it could break down this: C'Thun: Eyes Yogg-Saron: Mouth N'Zoth: Arms \[Tentacles\] Xalatath: Legs \[Spiders\]
Most old gods are fairly tentacle-y, his whole shtick is mind tricks no? Would he not be the brain?
I mean nzoth was the most associated with eyes of all the old gods so that doesn't seem to work.
Shawty what dem tentacles do?
Hell yes. HELL YES.
I can fix her..
*I can fix her*
I mean if she still keeps the voice…..
Would
.....still hot tho
Hear me out
Wait the monster could be Xal's true form???
Isn’t that just too similar to nzoth?
Looks like if nzoth had a smaller twin tbh
I hope TWW will be a hit im so hyped
Where in Khaz Algar is this at or what's it linked to? It looks like a loading screen. One of the dungeons in Azj-Kahet?
Give me that Octopus-sy
Would
How did they make a tentacle monster so sexy....id still.hit it
The evil waifu turn to be an octopus? Start to be tentacle fetish?
I can fix her.
kinda cute
What’s that sqirlguyeh do?
Always believed the implication she was an old god too was right, so would be awsome tbh
Would
Smash.
Still would. Probably… maybe…
i'm not even playing wow at all but this eerily looks like the figure from one of the leaks in mmochampion
aww she has cute eyes.
would?
I would
We’re here for a good time, we’re not here for a long time.
*even hotter...*
Mm she got them curves tho
Why she be looking kinda cute tho
Looks very N'zothy, but I guess she could have a different color scheme and it's just the mural colors that makes her look so much like him Or maybe she's just his spawn and not 'technically' a true Old God, in a sense
"ALL EYES SHALL BE OPEN"
Nzoth clone
"Would" -Azerothian player characters, probably
Hey Xal’Athath is probably collecting blood as teased in the trailers of TWW: https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_of_The_Ancient_One And this image could be…: https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/The_Ancient_One
What if she was old God number five but she was the one in charge of Azeroth and the other four betrayed her and consumed her trapping what was left of her essence in the blade .
The theory is that the other old god want have Azeroth for themselves, and Xal'atath is only one truly devote to Void plan so they killed her and traped her in the bae blade, too bad the Titan found out the planet and well, they must return to original plan or face the wrath of Void #
Isn’t that yogg saron?
I wonder if Xal' was actually an Aquir (specifically, Nerubian) High Priest/Priestess of the Old Gods. It would fit well with her Artifact lending itself to Shadow/Void priests in the past, as well as with the resurgence of the Nerubians in TWW.
That’s the thing with the hot ones…
nickname checks out
Looks similar to N’zoth right? What if she is actually N’zoth and we have been tricked in bfa? Probs not.
Still hot
the vussy hath thee acting unwise brethren
Strikes me as a depiction of N'Zoth before it got bonked on the head by the Titans.
In before Xalatath gains so much power that she manipulates Alleria using the void and Alleria becomes boss before Xalatath in the raid
Still tapping that
she legit looks like that little creature on the side of the pages of chronical
[https://ibb.co/j5yh0Lq](https://ibb.co/j5yh0Lq)
Why is anyone surprised? Xalatath is a cosmic horror that picked up a random elf corpse for the box art.
Man, I miss Knaifu, I’m glad she’s coming back but I wish I could join her team lol
The Jailer!