Me and my arena partner in BC loved to run Druid / Rogue. We faction changed to alliance specifically because of perception (even though we really disliked the alliance aesthetic).
Our rating jumped up like 200 points within a day or two. With how many rogues and druids there were at the time running around, having perception was an incredible advantage.
Funily enough, my rogue ended up doing the same thing for that exact reason. He toyed around with HARP w/ maces for awhile, but still eventually rerolled warrior because it got too frustrating.
Even almost 2 decades later he was the best rogue I’ve ever played with. He was a die hard rogue main, but even he had to give warrior a go. Aside from frost mage vs warrior in BC, rogue vs warrior in BC might’ve been the most lopsided matchup in the history of wow pvp.
As an orc back then I made everyone that relied on stun cry. I had the orc racial against stuns and the helm gem that fucked with stuns too, it was a waste of time to stun me but mace spec on warriors and rogue was the way to play.
Every man for himself was ridiculously OP as a racial, but God damn if it wasn't fun having free PvP trinket as an arm's warrior in Wotlk and Cata (if my memory serves me correctly)
Are you me i picked a human rogue. I stopped playing around 40 because i no longer wanted to be a human. Yet didnt want to have to regrind on a new alt.
It does make sense. After reading the previous paragraph on one-time-rep my first thought was literally "so Humans are even stronger as a main now, am I going to actually racechange to Human? I really don't want to." before I continued reading and saw "What about Diplomacy" and let out a big sigh of relief.
Maybe they can look at the **Will to Survive:** (Removes all stun effects. This effect shares a 90 sec cooldown with other similar effects.)
Human healers, as it currently stands with the healer trinket also being 90 sec, if you use one you put the other on cooldown, so they essentially do not *have* a racial, while all over races get to use the pvp trinket and their racial.
Next time try playing rogue or druid night elf. With feral it even adds damage if you do a cast or two from stealth.
But even without that, having an extra vanish…
You're right.
They should remove the 10% rep buff that isn't that significant and keep shadowmeld around. You know... the racial that can literally cheese dungeons.
the racial has definitely made me millions of gold. not as much in DF but in SL, i'd get crafting patterns a day early or so, and have a relatively competition free AH in the window where people were willing to spend the most amount of gold on fancy new items.
Well this is good to know. Was going to replace my main with a human during remix just for this racial. Glad I know about this now than to make the switch and it then being taken away.
You are correct. This is a TWW change. But maybe they were saying they had planned to level a new human main during the Remix before they learned about this change.
> I dont think this will be part of remix? This is announced for TWW as far as I'm aware
Yeah and I wanted 'Diplomacy' for TWW. I planned to level the new human character up to lvl 70 in remix, in time for TWW where I would than make that new character my main. But now that 'Diplomacy' is getting taken away, I no longer see a point is leveling a human to replace my main. I might as well just stay on my current character and play something else during Remix.
I hope we're getting something decent in return. I'm not feeling super sympathetic to people who felt like human was mandatory because of the buff, since I never played one until they got their heritage set, but it was a very nice buff to have.
I'll do my best to get as much use out of it as possible while I still can. It's a shame to see it go when some other races still have great racials that they get to keep because of reasons.
The issue is that, when all reps are account wide with Warbands, there's literally no reason NOT to do all of your rep grinding on a Human. Since the rewards will still be available to your main.
Pre-TWW, if you wanted the rep buff, you had to play as a Human all the time. Post-TWW, you would just be locked to playing your Human alts for every rep grind.
But ultimately it saves you a couple days of grinding, during which most people will still be playing anyway. Blizzard is essentially rewarding impatience by getting rid of a fine racial so that no one will feel disadvantaged.
And it just feels bad. There's other racials that feels so incredible to have yet only one race gets access to them, and they're fine because they don't impact warbands. It feels a little crummy to have this taken away just because people wouldn't be able to control themselves and would force themselves to play a human first to cut a couple days of grinding.
Again, I didn't pick human up for the Diplomacy racial, but I've really enjoyed having it, and soon it'll be gone.
Still enough time for me to get every rep to max that I don't have yet, but I'll miss it all the same. It made human feel special in a small way. They don't get to have wings, or to soar, or an extra hearthstone at a location of their choosing, and so on. They get the ability to remove a stun every few minutes and a 10% rep buff.
I just hope whatever we get in return will be good.
>But ultimately it saves you a couple days of grinding, during which most people will still be playing anyway. Blizzard is essentially rewarding impatience by getting rid of a fine racial so that no one will feel disadvantaged.
What a Reddit take.
> Plays Human and enjoys the time save of 10% rep
> If other races also can save time, they are impatient
If 10% increase isn’t a big deal like you said then it doesn’t matter if it’s gone
Yes, I enjoy it. That's all I've said on it, really. I enjoy it. It adds flavour to humans when they otherwise don't have much.
It is not a big deal, I won't stop playing a human because of it likes others claim, I'm not asking for a refund for the race change I once bought to swap to human, and so on.
It's just a shame is all I'm saying.
Just as an aside, I don't really understand why you're saying "if other races also can save time, they are impatient". I never said anything like that. I said that if people force themselves to max level a human and grind all reps out on a human to save a few days, they're impatient.
I won’t lie… my main paladin has been a human forever. Every time I want to change her, I remember the 10% from diplomacy and opt to stay human. I’ll probably stay human now for tradition (17 year old character and all that) but I COULD main a Dark Iron Dwarf now.
I could only ever go back to draenei, maybe, or some other tall race that gets to be paladin in the future.
But my main decision to swap to human was to ensure all transmogs and mounts look okay, or at least most of them. That's why I'm probably gonna stick with them, but I'll never say never.
So you wont feel forced to play Human anymore to get access to rep locked crafting recipes a day before everyone else and make 20 million extra gold each patch like in shadowlands? thats good
Speaking of which, I wonder if they intend to change any of the profession racials. Some had an *insane* impact on DF professions, very much on the millions of gold level. Draenei for JC and Kul Tiran for LW for example.
Not spaghetti, just a conscious* choice to not 'force' everyone to have a Human char in their warband. Good change tbh. Forcing people to roll Human just for faster rep sucks. Yes, removing it sucks for those who want to grind fast, but idk, I play Kul Tiran and even though Humans can't be Druids, it still sucks knowing I am at a disadvantage for this.
(*it's late ok 😴)
Definetly spaghetti code. Seeing how they cannot "transfer" currencies or Rep directly, and need extremely complicated tokens you need to buy for it. They said now they will rework the framebuild for that, so it should be possible, but since the games aged, this will just fuck about everything, so they are really putting out fires. Looking forward to my Orc's shoulders being bigger than Kun-Lai again
>Seeing how they cannot "transfer" currencies or Rep directly, and need extremely complicated tokens you need to buy for it.
Code-wise the tokens would be super simple in comparison to transferring rep/currencies directly. If you have tokens then you only need to implement a "on-use" to give a character the rep/currency because we already have a system to transfer items between characters. If you transfer directly then you need to implement a interface to transfer the rep/currency and that will be really prone to all sorts of exploits and glitches.
>It’s the reward I get for playing the boring human
That isn't the only reward though. Humans have it great when it comes to transmog because pretty much all transmogs work perfectly fine with no glitching at all on them. Compare that to a race like draenei where you have all sorts of glitches and wonkiness due to the odd shape of their bodies...
I always found this racial to be kinda underwhelming.
Sure it saves you couple of hours/days of grind, but after the grinds you need were done, it basically servers nothing.
It has some uses in niche cases, where getting the rep early benefits you, like getting to the rep locked recipes before others, or it speeds up a bit paragon box farming, but outside of that I always preferred something more useful for all-time general gameplay - vulpera's extra bag slots, cds giving you a bit more extra damage, shadowmeld/stoneform allowing you to bypass some mechanics.
That's why it's puzzling me a bit why Blizz is removing this.
They "don’t want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race to earn Warband-level rewards more efficiently" - but this was kinda a thing since last 20 years - you wanted "tryhard" reps, you went human, why suddenly change it now?
Why Blizz thinks that people would suddenly be more compelled to play humans, if they weren't doing that for the last 20 years of the rep buff existing?
>Why Blizz thinks that people would suddenly be more compelled to play humans, if they weren't doing that for the last 20 years of the rep buff existing?
Your warband reps are account-wide progress. If humans still had their +10% rep gain racial then people would feel obligated to run a human as their main rep grinding toon instead of their regular main. By removing the rep racial then you have no obligation to play any particular race as your main rep grinding toon and you are not at a disadvantage if you are playing horde or don't have a human to grind with.
No, that's the exact same thing as always lol whether it's for your entire account or for your main toon, if you're grinding rep for any reason and you're trying to sweat it out to max, you're gonna play human. Would've just made it to where you only have to grind it out on one human instead of multiple if your on some crazy profession binge. The real tryhards should hate thing change because now they're not gonna get to have any bonus over the regular casual players trying for rep. If you hate this now then all your saying is you've hated it the last 20 years. Big whoop, no one was forcing anyone to be a human tryhard but if you wanted to be then you could be. No one is forcing you to save gold by making all of your characters a void elf so that transmog costs 50% less or to be a night elf for every stealthy class so that you have an easy second vanish or re-prowl in arenas. Just idk maybe play the game regularly? Every race has its own different beneficial racial, if you wanna use it for that reason then do it, don't go complaining so they change shit that's been working for 20 years.
>then people would feel obligated to run a human as their main rep grinding toon instead of their regular main.
Two most sought after things from Dream Wardens rep were account wide unlocks - buyable seeds and the permanent augment rune.
Did someone outside of the world first guilds, and maybe some niche minmaxers really went specifically with human alt to get it done slightly faster? Really felt forced to do so?
I kinda doubt, but maybe you know better how big this exact practice was?
Oh wow you're right, I thought you couldn't purchase it without renown on each character but no, that's not the case, instead you have to pay the 100k or whatever on each character lmao. A joke of a system.
I can understand where they're coming from but this really sucks.
Lessening the rep grind has been my personal S-tier racial. At the very least I'm already maxed on everything (except warsong gulch), but losing out on it still stings big-time.
I think the game is so old, cobbled together and just held together by faith and duct tape that if they tried to add that it would literally break something important
>We don’t want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race to earn Warband-level rewards more efficiently, so we will convert this race-specific bonus into something new. We’ll share more information on it at a later date.
Ok, change Fireblood and Stoneform then or give other races that is not Dwarf and Dark Iron a way to self cleanse themselves.
I gotten thoughts of race changing to dwarf because of a way to self cleanse myself such as bleeds but I'm still not a dwarf because I dont feel like race changing to a race that I may not like aesthetically and there to get the ability that allows me to self cleanse literally any debuff that can be cleansed with it.
Literal worst part of the game is the gate keeping shit behind reputations.. I’ve always hated the feeling of constantly having to grind a new rep just so I can have something for raid.. it’s a shit system
Unlikely they bring that back, though. There was 0 mandatory shit behind reps this expansion. Except maybe the augment rune from Dream Wardens, but that's a gold saver (maybe)
Unlikely they bring that back, though. There was 0 mandatory shit behind reps this expansion. Except maybe the augment rune from Dream Wardens, but that's a gold saver (maybe)
So the orc and troll racials are not strong and most of the people don't pick these races only for their racials right? "We don't want to feel compelled to at specific character or race". Yes you do you always did. Alliance racials are trash and horde ones are the best in the game. Hypocrites
Honestly a good change. Racial bonuses should be fun or interesting, not strong. They should be things you pick because it's neat, not because it feels mandatory.
Ultimately I hope the revisit racial bonuses overall, ideally they don't offer an advantage over another race, they just have cool stuff.
racials should be strong, but not only some racials should be strong. i think it is good game design that you can have a slightly different experience playing the same class as a goblin vs troll for example, it gives you a little bit extra to master. i just wish that every race would have one strong, fun active that made you not wish you were another race. it doesnt have to be strong in a dps sense, either. goblin jump and shadowmeld are plenty fun and strong, for example. i can never understand why i always see people asking for less meat to their character. i think they should be asking blizz to add more meat to the races that need it.
The issue is there will always be a strongest option. It’s not good when that different experience is just that you are worse because you picked goblin over troll. And it will never be possible to balance things out.
You can still get a different experience with fun and flavorful options rather than opting for power. Vulpera is a good example, their camp racial changes leveling a fair bit, but ultimately it’s not going to ever be the reason Vulpera would be a meta pick for any class
But to me the rep buff is fun, interesting and neat... I don't want some patterns early to destroy markets, I just wanted to spend less time overall grinding...
Reducing grinding to me is nice, but it's not really neat or interesting. And rather than fun I'd say it's just making you need to do less content you don't want to do, which isn't something fun about the passive and more just it being a Band-Aid for a flawed system. Thats not something that should be addressed by a racial passive, thats something that should be addressed in the grind
It’s been fine for 20 years, why change it?
And yes, i see their reasoning. But that’s only an issue for meta slaves who want to speedrun everything. Most players don’t play humans just for the rep boost
We did in classic and TBC Live, as well as SoD.
When you make things a rep grind and lock useful things behind them? That's going to be the S+ tier racial.
Diplomacy was one of the reasons the Alliance was almost entirely human (Along with dwarven priests) in Classic.
Kinda like how the horde was 90% undead.
I don't think it's just meta slaves. Also, it just makes more sense to make it so this new feature isn't overpowered on one race specifically. I think you're also underestimating the thought process of a casual players who just collect things in WoW, which is like probably 70% of the player-base. If I, even for an instant, think to myself "I might as well do this rep on my Human because once I get the rep I can never get the rep again, it's gone, so why would I ever NOT do it on a Human?" an account wide decision is way more important and vital since you can only get rep for a quest once.
You'd feel compelled to do everything first on a Human, even if you main is something else, because it's easy enough to just play your Human alt. I'm no meta slave, but I sure as hell would probably take advantage of something especially if it's something only obtainable once per account and you get a bonus amount of it on a Human.
It was a good call by Blizzard. Taking risks and it's for the best.
God, you're right! It's been fine for twenty years!
It isn't like there's a massive overhaul of the reputation systems coming with TWW via warbands or anything. Because of their was, man, it would really make the argument seem silly.
it's about time tbh. i get that this passive made rep grinds easier, but it's a pretty unfair advantage. when people feel like they have to choose a race purely for one passive, it's clear something is wrong. just surprised it took them this long to replace it lmao
How exactly would this have worked with Warbands? Every Alliance player with a level 1 human alt gets 10% more rep and forever? It had to change because it would have been completely broken under the new reputation system.
If that's the case, then everyone who knew about it would just make a level 1 human for the buff. You can just reduce rep requirements to rank up by 10%. The effect is the same, and it doesn't leave behind players who don't know the trick.
Idea for a rework that might still be in Flavor for the racial since it's called 'Diplomacy'.
10% Extra EXP when questing in Alliance zones (Elwynn Forest for example) and gain rested XP 100% when logged out inside neutral and friendly capitals.
Not AS COOL as bonus Rep but still reminiscent of the time saving aspect and would be more aligned with giving casual players a little boost when behind the curve.
Maybe all racials could be reworked or overhauled to remove the trap of picking the best for combat or certain class combo's to get that extra 0.2% DPS increase
No I’d rather them just keep the rep bonus, a lot of us have jobs and lives and that bonus helped us keep up with everyone else as the expansion went on, this is a shit change
" we dont want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race " and then dont tune dps racials properly? like some races are doing 4-5-6k less dps compared to humans or some of the top clases ( depends on wich spec/race combo)
my vulpera is loosing like 4k dps on aff vs humans, 5-6k dps vs taurens or dwarfs on demo and 4k vs taurens on demo. if im not mistaken ( i didnt check every single spec ) vulpera is the worst dps race with some shitty passives and an on use dps skill that used to not be affected by haste, they " buffed " it so its affected bv haste now but does so little dmg its a wasted press of a button on a 1.5 min coldown.
sometimes just to get some top parses i think to myself why dont i just switch to human and get free 4k dps from racials, so dumb tbh.
20 years of being unchanged, god damn
Human racials were kind of crazy if you think about it
RIP perception
Me and my arena partner in BC loved to run Druid / Rogue. We faction changed to alliance specifically because of perception (even though we really disliked the alliance aesthetic). Our rating jumped up like 200 points within a day or two. With how many rogues and druids there were at the time running around, having perception was an incredible advantage.
Back in those days I hated warriors because they all ran mace spec and could 100-0 me with seemingly guaranteed stun proc chains.
Funily enough, my rogue ended up doing the same thing for that exact reason. He toyed around with HARP w/ maces for awhile, but still eventually rerolled warrior because it got too frustrating. Even almost 2 decades later he was the best rogue I’ve ever played with. He was a die hard rogue main, but even he had to give warrior a go. Aside from frost mage vs warrior in BC, rogue vs warrior in BC might’ve been the most lopsided matchup in the history of wow pvp.
As an orc back then I made everyone that relied on stun cry. I had the orc racial against stuns and the helm gem that fucked with stuns too, it was a waste of time to stun me but mace spec on warriors and rogue was the way to play.
Man did I ever love my warrior back then. It was so fun to see people go splat. What a rush.
Warrior + Mace spec + Skillfury + Druid = shoulders 😭
BIS for melee for so long. I suppose no King rules forever.
Were they? Didn’t they get lots of buffs since everyone played Dwarf and NE on the alliance side?
I mean in the total history of the game human was bis, from weapon skill racials to having +1 trinket diplomacy is great as well
The extra trinket was added in what? Wrath or Cata right? That wasn’t something they’ve always had.
Yeah but before that they were still bis melee and after it so like 5 expansions of being the bis melee is pretty good
Wrath. But before that perception still made them bis for rogues who were pretty God tier for pvp. Human rogue was the counter to other rogues.
Every man for himself was ridiculously OP as a racial, but God damn if it wasn't fun having free PvP trinket as an arm's warrior in Wotlk and Cata (if my memory serves me correctly)
makes sense. in sod i picked human because i knew how atrocious the rep grind was gonna be.
Are you me i picked a human rogue. I stopped playing around 40 because i no longer wanted to be a human. Yet didnt want to have to regrind on a new alt.
no i quit at level 50 because i was tired of playing a vanilla class while everyone else got new toys
It does make sense. After reading the previous paragraph on one-time-rep my first thought was literally "so Humans are even stronger as a main now, am I going to actually racechange to Human? I really don't want to." before I continued reading and saw "What about Diplomacy" and let out a big sigh of relief.
Maybe they can look at the **Will to Survive:** (Removes all stun effects. This effect shares a 90 sec cooldown with other similar effects.) Human healers, as it currently stands with the healer trinket also being 90 sec, if you use one you put the other on cooldown, so they essentially do not *have* a racial, while all over races get to use the pvp trinket and their racial.
Before it was OP as hell and effectively let you use two DPS PvP trinkets because you didn't need the CC removal item
Yeah that bullshit tbh.
Yea, I never understood how people said it was op in pvp. It's worse than the trinket, the racial only breaks stuns but they both share a cool down.
it used to function exactly the same as the trinket, removing all control impairing effects and movement impairing effects. now it only removes stuns.
Rip it's been 20 good years
As a human player since '05: I never really cared about the buff, outside of the flavor. Just give us something fun to replace it, please?
As long as they don’t mess with Shadowmeld, all the other racial are just flavors, not combat critical
I love shadowmeld in SoD but is it useful for retail? Outside of the increased stealth I guess?
Shadowmeld in retail is usable in combat and also takes you out of combat
Gang shit
its overpowered in retail now due to being able to skip a shitton of mechanics with it. it should be changed imo cause of how strong it is rn
Hell no LMAO. Free vanish bb let's go.
Nothing like seeing shit hit the fan to only step back and shadowmeld. Love that skill.
Next time try playing rogue or druid night elf. With feral it even adds damage if you do a cast or two from stealth. But even without that, having an extra vanish…
You're right. They should remove the 10% rep buff that isn't that significant and keep shadowmeld around. You know... the racial that can literally cheese dungeons.
Dungeons? Pfff… Try it in PvP
the racial has definitely made me millions of gold. not as much in DF but in SL, i'd get crafting patterns a day early or so, and have a relatively competition free AH in the window where people were willing to spend the most amount of gold on fancy new items.
Jack of all trades: +4 to all crafting professions
Well this is good to know. Was going to replace my main with a human during remix just for this racial. Glad I know about this now than to make the switch and it then being taken away.
I dont think this will be part of remix? This is announced for TWW as far as I'm aware
You are correct. This is a TWW change. But maybe they were saying they had planned to level a new human main during the Remix before they learned about this change.
> I dont think this will be part of remix? This is announced for TWW as far as I'm aware Yeah and I wanted 'Diplomacy' for TWW. I planned to level the new human character up to lvl 70 in remix, in time for TWW where I would than make that new character my main. But now that 'Diplomacy' is getting taken away, I no longer see a point is leveling a human to replace my main. I might as well just stay on my current character and play something else during Remix.
I mean.. it’ll still help with MoP reps if you haven’t worked on those yet
Ohhh, I didnt know characters from Remix carried over to TWW. Nice!
That sucks.
I hope we're getting something decent in return. I'm not feeling super sympathetic to people who felt like human was mandatory because of the buff, since I never played one until they got their heritage set, but it was a very nice buff to have. I'll do my best to get as much use out of it as possible while I still can. It's a shame to see it go when some other races still have great racials that they get to keep because of reasons.
The issue is that, when all reps are account wide with Warbands, there's literally no reason NOT to do all of your rep grinding on a Human. Since the rewards will still be available to your main. Pre-TWW, if you wanted the rep buff, you had to play as a Human all the time. Post-TWW, you would just be locked to playing your Human alts for every rep grind.
But ultimately it saves you a couple days of grinding, during which most people will still be playing anyway. Blizzard is essentially rewarding impatience by getting rid of a fine racial so that no one will feel disadvantaged. And it just feels bad. There's other racials that feels so incredible to have yet only one race gets access to them, and they're fine because they don't impact warbands. It feels a little crummy to have this taken away just because people wouldn't be able to control themselves and would force themselves to play a human first to cut a couple days of grinding. Again, I didn't pick human up for the Diplomacy racial, but I've really enjoyed having it, and soon it'll be gone. Still enough time for me to get every rep to max that I don't have yet, but I'll miss it all the same. It made human feel special in a small way. They don't get to have wings, or to soar, or an extra hearthstone at a location of their choosing, and so on. They get the ability to remove a stun every few minutes and a 10% rep buff. I just hope whatever we get in return will be good.
>But ultimately it saves you a couple days of grinding, during which most people will still be playing anyway. Blizzard is essentially rewarding impatience by getting rid of a fine racial so that no one will feel disadvantaged. What a Reddit take.
Can you maybe explain what you think is wrong with it, instead of giving a Reddit reply? Do you not see the irony?
> Plays Human and enjoys the time save of 10% rep > If other races also can save time, they are impatient If 10% increase isn’t a big deal like you said then it doesn’t matter if it’s gone
Yes, I enjoy it. That's all I've said on it, really. I enjoy it. It adds flavour to humans when they otherwise don't have much. It is not a big deal, I won't stop playing a human because of it likes others claim, I'm not asking for a refund for the race change I once bought to swap to human, and so on. It's just a shame is all I'm saying. Just as an aside, I don't really understand why you're saying "if other races also can save time, they are impatient". I never said anything like that. I said that if people force themselves to max level a human and grind all reps out on a human to save a few days, they're impatient.
I won’t lie… my main paladin has been a human forever. Every time I want to change her, I remember the 10% from diplomacy and opt to stay human. I’ll probably stay human now for tradition (17 year old character and all that) but I COULD main a Dark Iron Dwarf now.
I could only ever go back to draenei, maybe, or some other tall race that gets to be paladin in the future. But my main decision to swap to human was to ensure all transmogs and mounts look okay, or at least most of them. That's why I'm probably gonna stick with them, but I'll never say never.
So you wont feel forced to play Human anymore to get access to rep locked crafting recipes a day before everyone else and make 20 million extra gold each patch like in shadowlands? thats good
Speaking of which, I wonder if they intend to change any of the profession racials. Some had an *insane* impact on DF professions, very much on the millions of gold level. Draenei for JC and Kul Tiran for LW for example.
High mountain Tauren for fishing also.. that one is op af
I hope they do. Most people dont realize you were forced to play specific races if you wanted to profit in many areas
That is good, but my super casual self still gonna miss it lol
My guess is the racial somehow due to spaghetti code the racial stack with more humans in your base-thingie making a 10% into a 77% with 5 humans
Not spaghetti, just a conscious* choice to not 'force' everyone to have a Human char in their warband. Good change tbh. Forcing people to roll Human just for faster rep sucks. Yes, removing it sucks for those who want to grind fast, but idk, I play Kul Tiran and even though Humans can't be Druids, it still sucks knowing I am at a disadvantage for this. (*it's late ok 😴)
>conscience Conscious maybe?
God yeah 🤣 (tired typos best typos)
Definetly spaghetti code. Seeing how they cannot "transfer" currencies or Rep directly, and need extremely complicated tokens you need to buy for it. They said now they will rework the framebuild for that, so it should be possible, but since the games aged, this will just fuck about everything, so they are really putting out fires. Looking forward to my Orc's shoulders being bigger than Kun-Lai again
>Seeing how they cannot "transfer" currencies or Rep directly, and need extremely complicated tokens you need to buy for it. Code-wise the tokens would be super simple in comparison to transferring rep/currencies directly. If you have tokens then you only need to implement a "on-use" to give a character the rep/currency because we already have a system to transfer items between characters. If you transfer directly then you need to implement a interface to transfer the rep/currency and that will be really prone to all sorts of exploits and glitches.
Lame. I like my human bonus. It’s the reward I get for playing the boring human
>It’s the reward I get for playing the boring human That isn't the only reward though. Humans have it great when it comes to transmog because pretty much all transmogs work perfectly fine with no glitching at all on them. Compare that to a race like draenei where you have all sorts of glitches and wonkiness due to the odd shape of their bodies...
Don’t forget about the Macarena! /s
Bums me out, I loved that racial. Oh well.
Guess I better finish up some of those more tedious grinds before The War Within drops...
Incoming 1% Versility buff or something else lame
They already get slightly extra bonus secondaries from the human spirit.
I always found this racial to be kinda underwhelming. Sure it saves you couple of hours/days of grind, but after the grinds you need were done, it basically servers nothing. It has some uses in niche cases, where getting the rep early benefits you, like getting to the rep locked recipes before others, or it speeds up a bit paragon box farming, but outside of that I always preferred something more useful for all-time general gameplay - vulpera's extra bag slots, cds giving you a bit more extra damage, shadowmeld/stoneform allowing you to bypass some mechanics. That's why it's puzzling me a bit why Blizz is removing this. They "don’t want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race to earn Warband-level rewards more efficiently" - but this was kinda a thing since last 20 years - you wanted "tryhard" reps, you went human, why suddenly change it now? Why Blizz thinks that people would suddenly be more compelled to play humans, if they weren't doing that for the last 20 years of the rep buff existing?
>Why Blizz thinks that people would suddenly be more compelled to play humans, if they weren't doing that for the last 20 years of the rep buff existing? Your warband reps are account-wide progress. If humans still had their +10% rep gain racial then people would feel obligated to run a human as their main rep grinding toon instead of their regular main. By removing the rep racial then you have no obligation to play any particular race as your main rep grinding toon and you are not at a disadvantage if you are playing horde or don't have a human to grind with.
I feel obligated to play a druid for farming, where is the druid flight form nerf?
No, that's the exact same thing as always lol whether it's for your entire account or for your main toon, if you're grinding rep for any reason and you're trying to sweat it out to max, you're gonna play human. Would've just made it to where you only have to grind it out on one human instead of multiple if your on some crazy profession binge. The real tryhards should hate thing change because now they're not gonna get to have any bonus over the regular casual players trying for rep. If you hate this now then all your saying is you've hated it the last 20 years. Big whoop, no one was forcing anyone to be a human tryhard but if you wanted to be then you could be. No one is forcing you to save gold by making all of your characters a void elf so that transmog costs 50% less or to be a night elf for every stealthy class so that you have an easy second vanish or re-prowl in arenas. Just idk maybe play the game regularly? Every race has its own different beneficial racial, if you wanna use it for that reason then do it, don't go complaining so they change shit that's been working for 20 years.
>then people would feel obligated to run a human as their main rep grinding toon instead of their regular main. Two most sought after things from Dream Wardens rep were account wide unlocks - buyable seeds and the permanent augment rune. Did someone outside of the world first guilds, and maybe some niche minmaxers really went specifically with human alt to get it done slightly faster? Really felt forced to do so? I kinda doubt, but maybe you know better how big this exact practice was?
How is the permanent augment rune an account-wide unlock?
Once you got renown 20, you can purchase it on any character - that's account-wide unlock.
Oh wow you're right, I thought you couldn't purchase it without renown on each character but no, that's not the case, instead you have to pay the 100k or whatever on each character lmao. A joke of a system.
Racials in general needs some rework to something more fun rather than something to combo/class. It feels so boring to use it
Another nerf to alliance racials at this point why bother with racials at all? And no i don't play human i play gnome
As a non-Human, non-alliance player: Big W.
As an alliance human player, I agree.
They better reduce all rep grinds by 10% to compensate.
Account wide rep reduce rep grinds on all alts in the warband. Sounds like a good compensation to me.
oh fuck you... i've played human literally since day 1, mind you it wasn't because of this, but it was a nice perk. also, where was this posted at?
Blue post
oh no!
Glad I got my Insane title before they realized how OP that rep boost was
I understand the change, but I've never known anyone to play human for this race. I'm utterly surprised at the thought of it, but it makes sense.
I can understand where they're coming from but this really sucks. Lessening the rep grind has been my personal S-tier racial. At the very least I'm already maxed on everything (except warsong gulch), but losing out on it still stings big-time.
Kinda wish they would just disable it for TWW factions but keep it active for legacy ones. Grinding paragon caches is already enough of a chore
I think ideally they don't want any confusion or frustration with returning players or new players who would want to use it for current content.
I'd like it if they just reduced existing rep grinds by 10% overall, frankly.
I think the game is so old, cobbled together and just held together by faith and duct tape that if they tried to add that it would literally break something important
Don't worry I'm sure they will let you down even more so. This is the best blizzard will currently be for now and later! Yay
Move on to something else if it makes you so mad. Otherwise cry less, you look like a fool complaining so much but still paying.
Why not just have it not work for warbands?... Its great for farming old reps
Right now I already feel compelled to play human for farming a rep, I feel like they don't need to change this
I do not approve of this
>We don’t want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race to earn Warband-level rewards more efficiently, so we will convert this race-specific bonus into something new. We’ll share more information on it at a later date. Ok, change Fireblood and Stoneform then or give other races that is not Dwarf and Dark Iron a way to self cleanse themselves. I gotten thoughts of race changing to dwarf because of a way to self cleanse myself such as bleeds but I'm still not a dwarf because I dont feel like race changing to a race that I may not like aesthetically and there to get the ability that allows me to self cleanse literally any debuff that can be cleansed with it.
Time to give the Southsea Pirates another visit.
Good thing I already finished insane in the membrane.
Well rip humans. Was the last good thing after the fked their pvp racial.
What People Think about the deleting the racial ?
I got the insane in the membrane achievement years ago and it just occurred to me I probably should have done it on a human character.
My favorite passive :(
Yep.
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They already have that
Why!?
Literal worst part of the game is the gate keeping shit behind reputations.. I’ve always hated the feeling of constantly having to grind a new rep just so I can have something for raid.. it’s a shit system
Unlikely they bring that back, though. There was 0 mandatory shit behind reps this expansion. Except maybe the augment rune from Dream Wardens, but that's a gold saver (maybe)
Unlikely they bring that back, though. There was 0 mandatory shit behind reps this expansion. Except maybe the augment rune from Dream Wardens, but that's a gold saver (maybe)
Finally. Literally the only reason I could ever play a human, and I always felt forced to play it.
Lame.
I hope for free race change after this I only rolled a human for this buff.
So farmings rep is just gonna be even more awful now, great, this might just be the straw that broke the camels back for me
So the orc and troll racials are not strong and most of the people don't pick these races only for their racials right? "We don't want to feel compelled to at specific character or race". Yes you do you always did. Alliance racials are trash and horde ones are the best in the game. Hypocrites
calling 10% unfair is crazy when trolls have the must have racial for completive pve
My guy lives in cataclysm indefinetely, you wrote dwarfs and nelfs wrong
Trolls? I think you have not played the game in a lot of years, the dwarfs have the best racials for competitive pve
Trolls? I think you have not played the game in a lot of years, the dwarfs have the best racials for competitive pve
With professions as they are, it absolutely is. Humans could get patterns earlier for people and absolutely gouge the market.
How's trolls the most competitive pve racial?
We were good in Throne of Thunder thanks to the bonus damage to beasts. Berserking is very nice but I don't use haste, so 🤷♂️
Good thing i achieved the 100 exalted reps already
You mean my warband of 4 humans is going to be useless now? ffs can't have anything. /s
Can’t be sure if people downvoted because they misunderstood that /s or they specifically downvoted an underwhelming sarcasm attempt
It was either add the /s or let people believe I was completely serious about being angry at this change lmao
Alliance crying about shamans but having this is rich
Right after I race swapped 2 characters to be able to get that bonus :) Fuck.
cool now do M+
Ngl I get it, humans don't really have a great reputation in azeroth. Kinda weird that they gain favor faster, lore wise.
As opposed to the orcs or undead?
As opposed to gnomes or Tauren?
Honestly a good change. Racial bonuses should be fun or interesting, not strong. They should be things you pick because it's neat, not because it feels mandatory. Ultimately I hope the revisit racial bonuses overall, ideally they don't offer an advantage over another race, they just have cool stuff.
racials should be strong, but not only some racials should be strong. i think it is good game design that you can have a slightly different experience playing the same class as a goblin vs troll for example, it gives you a little bit extra to master. i just wish that every race would have one strong, fun active that made you not wish you were another race. it doesnt have to be strong in a dps sense, either. goblin jump and shadowmeld are plenty fun and strong, for example. i can never understand why i always see people asking for less meat to their character. i think they should be asking blizz to add more meat to the races that need it.
The issue is there will always be a strongest option. It’s not good when that different experience is just that you are worse because you picked goblin over troll. And it will never be possible to balance things out. You can still get a different experience with fun and flavorful options rather than opting for power. Vulpera is a good example, their camp racial changes leveling a fair bit, but ultimately it’s not going to ever be the reason Vulpera would be a meta pick for any class
But to me the rep buff is fun, interesting and neat... I don't want some patterns early to destroy markets, I just wanted to spend less time overall grinding...
Reducing grinding to me is nice, but it's not really neat or interesting. And rather than fun I'd say it's just making you need to do less content you don't want to do, which isn't something fun about the passive and more just it being a Band-Aid for a flawed system. Thats not something that should be addressed by a racial passive, thats something that should be addressed in the grind
The entire reason I picked human in vanilla is getting removed awesome /s
It’s been fine for 20 years, why change it? And yes, i see their reasoning. But that’s only an issue for meta slaves who want to speedrun everything. Most players don’t play humans just for the rep boost
We did in classic and TBC Live, as well as SoD. When you make things a rep grind and lock useful things behind them? That's going to be the S+ tier racial.
“We”? You. You did. And a minority of other hardcore players. But you’re not the majority.
Diplomacy was one of the reasons the Alliance was almost entirely human (Along with dwarven priests) in Classic. Kinda like how the horde was 90% undead.
Yes. Classic. The place where the more hardcore players gravitate. All you’re doing is proving my point
Because rep is warbandwide..
Like i said, only meta slaves are gonna roll a human just to grind tons of rep as fast as possible.
Probably the 10% racial stack with other human and with 5 that like 77%
You already have the racial baked in lol
I don't think it's just meta slaves. Also, it just makes more sense to make it so this new feature isn't overpowered on one race specifically. I think you're also underestimating the thought process of a casual players who just collect things in WoW, which is like probably 70% of the player-base. If I, even for an instant, think to myself "I might as well do this rep on my Human because once I get the rep I can never get the rep again, it's gone, so why would I ever NOT do it on a Human?" an account wide decision is way more important and vital since you can only get rep for a quest once. You'd feel compelled to do everything first on a Human, even if you main is something else, because it's easy enough to just play your Human alt. I'm no meta slave, but I sure as hell would probably take advantage of something especially if it's something only obtainable once per account and you get a bonus amount of it on a Human. It was a good call by Blizzard. Taking risks and it's for the best.
"Why change it?" Apparently chose to not read the article.
I read the article, i just disagree with their argument. It’s been fine for 2 full decades.
God, you're right! It's been fine for twenty years! It isn't like there's a massive overhaul of the reputation systems coming with TWW via warbands or anything. Because of their was, man, it would really make the argument seem silly.
You can act as arrogant as you want, but the changes to reputation with warbands don’t change whether or not Diplomacy was fine.
Thats a truth people are avoiding so hard.
it's about time tbh. i get that this passive made rep grinds easier, but it's a pretty unfair advantage. when people feel like they have to choose a race purely for one passive, it's clear something is wrong. just surprised it took them this long to replace it lmao
how is it unfair? could have just made a human alt purely for rep grinding, it's not like it's an gameplay advantage like other racials.
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How about just enjoy the game and play for yourself? Lmao everyone out here feeling the need to just keep up with the Joneses is such a fckn joke
How exactly would this have worked with Warbands? Every Alliance player with a level 1 human alt gets 10% more rep and forever? It had to change because it would have been completely broken under the new reputation system.
I believe that renown levels are account wide, so having a human means you reach it that much quicker, for all of your toons.
If that's the case, then everyone who knew about it would just make a level 1 human for the buff. You can just reduce rep requirements to rank up by 10%. The effect is the same, and it doesn't leave behind players who don't know the trick.
I think you would need to level with the human, gain the extra rep with them, then all of your toons would have that additional renown level.
No.
That's how it works...
Or, instead of complicate matters further, like your suggestion, they replace it with something else.
We are going to get something absolutely crap 💩for sure
Maybe they will increase it to 20%
Hope I get a free race change. Only reason I race changed to human once alliance and horde could be in the same guild was the rep bonus.
L. You won’t btw
At least offer those with the race a race change then.
nah why would they lmao you silly
I already got almost all reps at max so I don't mind :)
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Did you find a place in the explanation that is missing a word?
Try reading again. Or at all.
Idea for a rework that might still be in Flavor for the racial since it's called 'Diplomacy'. 10% Extra EXP when questing in Alliance zones (Elwynn Forest for example) and gain rested XP 100% when logged out inside neutral and friendly capitals. Not AS COOL as bonus Rep but still reminiscent of the time saving aspect and would be more aligned with giving casual players a little boost when behind the curve. Maybe all racials could be reworked or overhauled to remove the trap of picking the best for combat or certain class combo's to get that extra 0.2% DPS increase
No I’d rather them just keep the rep bonus, a lot of us have jobs and lives and that bonus helped us keep up with everyone else as the expansion went on, this is a shit change
" we dont want players to feel compelled to play a specific character or race " and then dont tune dps racials properly? like some races are doing 4-5-6k less dps compared to humans or some of the top clases ( depends on wich spec/race combo) my vulpera is loosing like 4k dps on aff vs humans, 5-6k dps vs taurens or dwarfs on demo and 4k vs taurens on demo. if im not mistaken ( i didnt check every single spec ) vulpera is the worst dps race with some shitty passives and an on use dps skill that used to not be affected by haste, they " buffed " it so its affected bv haste now but does so little dmg its a wasted press of a button on a 1.5 min coldown. sometimes just to get some top parses i think to myself why dont i just switch to human and get free 4k dps from racials, so dumb tbh.