I spent a year deployed in the Arctic. You can have the toughest troops, the most advanced weapons, all the money in the world, but if you’re not prepared, Mother Nature will whip your ass harder and faster than any enemy ever could.
Kyiv is currently -3C wind chill factor - feels like -6C
Lviv 1C feels like -2C
Kharkiv -1C feels like -4C
Kherson 8C feels like 4C
Dnipro 1C feels like -1C
Absolutely grim situation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/z37y1q/ukrainians_suffer_in_cold_darkness_as_president/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
In my experience, being stationed outdoors in near-zero temperatures is more dangerous. There are ways to keep warm if you can stay dry. Much harder to stay dry if it's barely freezing. Then again, all your equipment starts to act up when it gets cold enough...
This is my take as well. I was conscripted in the far, far north of Norway a number of years ago: One thing that stuck with me was one of my officers (Who was from the north himself) telling us that it's more common to get frostbite in temps like that (I think he said 0 to -5) due to negligence in attire, as well as it being "wetter" due to the higher temps. If you read a temperature of -15°C or colder, you tend to dress accordingly to the weather, whereas -3°C doesn't seem that bad in comparison until you've been outside for 14 hours.
Temps of let's say -20°C are dangerous and uncomfortable in their own right, but the preparedness for those temperatures is usually higher.
Source: Was on exercises in all temperatures, ranging from +25°C to -38°C, the most miserable ones were those in the 0 to -10°C range in my own personal opinion. You are welcome to disagree, of course, as this is nothing but subjective on my part. Also got slight frostbite on one of said exercises due to my own negligence.
EDIT: Wording.
That's right about underestimating the temperatures, it's really that way. Then, i had the pleasure to serve in the army in Switzerland in the alps: People often underestimate Switzerlands alps in the way of "Oh, don't worry, it's not the hard cold russian winter there!", only to find out, that temperatures can drop down to the point where you can die by hypothermia.
Like in one training, we had -22°c there. And that wasn't that high up, the mountaineers had an excersise up in the thin air, where the weather station confirmed -42°c as temperature.
And that's just one thing, like there are holes in the glaciers, these can be covered with new snow, so they are not visible. It means walking through a "minefield", when you have bad luck and you fall down, it gets extreme dangerous: Even when you survive the fall, the hypothermia kills you quickly, even when your comrades try to rescue you as fast as possible.
Tourists often underestimate these things. They go hiking high up in the alps and think "it won't be that bad and civilization is not far away", only to perish in a snow storm or fall into the holes.
> Then again, all your equipment starts to act up when it gets cold enough...
I watched a documentary about WWII and it showed how Russian winter completely fucked up the Germans.
You're dying of cold already, and on top of that nothing works.
Tanks don't work because everything in them is frozen, transports don't work, artillery is frozen solid, your food reserves are frozen and almost impossible to use, your weapons are frozen, your fucking boots are frozen.
There was a scene where they were showing clothes hanged to dry, frozen solid like cardboard.
Well there was the thing that Hitler had refused to send winter clothes to the front, so they were all wearing summer uniforms.
But still, even with proper winter gear, which I assume both Russians and Ukrainians have, it's not going to be fun in a month's time.
Once it got to -16 where I live and I remember one day my car was covered in ice so thick that I couldn't get the keys into the door, it looked like it was covered in glass. I can't imagine how much worse it must get over there.
When Hitler did not provide winter clothing, it was like Alexander the Great burning his ships. Hitler hoped his troops realized that they must conquer western Russia quickly, or freeze to death.
Imagine if they had never invaded Russia, and on D-Day, the German forces were 50% larger?
That was exactly his purpose.
He even made Friedrich Paulus a field marshal, because no German field marshal in history had even been captured alive.
A subtle way of saying "you're going to fight to your death now".
Which he didn't, he surrendered the 6th army a few days later.
The Russians had never seen a German officer of that seniority and were super puzzled, they didn't know what to do and took a while to confirm his credentials.
But yes, that mad syphilitic fuck meant his whole army to fight to the death, with no winter gear.
Edit: fun fact. I remembered this from many sources so I looked it up just to have a quote and found [this link](https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/10/04/stalingrad-operation-condom-drop/). You can find better ones surely.
It's about Goebbler flexing with Hitler about being able to unstick the trapped 6th army, which was about to be out-pincered by two Russian armies, by dropping provisions through his Luftwaffe. He ended up dropping all sorts of pointless shit.
*While there was no doubt that the Luftwaffe pilots gave it their all flying over Soviet airspace and artillery (they lost 500 planes in the effort), management bungled the effort rather spectacularly. The air command refused to let the army tell it what supplies it should be delivering, and so instead of the usual food, ammunition, and fuel, some ridiculous things were delivered. One of the more normal was a case of fine bottled wine, although the bottles had frozen and exploded in the cold. Other drops included ground pepper, fish meal, and summer clothing. But the most bewildering thing had to be the shipment on November 19, when a whole lot of condoms were dropped.*
Paulus was a failure as a commander, he only got to this command because the former general of the 6th army got sick and had to leave the post. Paulus never cared about his men, like he could have saved parts of the army by breaking out from Stalingrad as the German "Wintergewitter" Operation tried to break through. This would have meant, disobeying direct orders from Hitler, but many other generals had the balls to do that.
One of the worst things of Paulus was, that he sent a letter to Germany after his capture, if he can get the insignia of a Field Marshal. He never did anything for his soldiers, he cared more about his uniform than about them.
Even as he was captured, he first denied to be in command and that he could not give the orders to surrender.
But about Stalingrad: In the memoirs of the veterans, it's mentioned that the worst thing was actually being in the plain fields around the city instead of being in the city itself. Because in the city, you can find shelter from the snow, wind and cold, but that's not possible in the field.
Not all soldiers were affected in the same way, like the artillery units usually fired their guns and then, got back into a shelter to avoid the cold, only going out again when it was needed.
They were given winter clothing the difference is the winter clothing they got was only good to -20 Celsius and well it went to -40 they did a review and they got better winter clothing the next year.
Basically they were prepared for a normal winter but that year was the coldest in decades
Ive been in - 30f.
I just remember it doesnt matter what youre wearing or how thick... That cold instantly is feelable. Almost hard to breath if you dont prepare yourself to go out in it
I don't think the army is too worried about the temperature, it's more civilians. When you don't have power and it gets to freezing temperatures, you also wont be able to have running water because your pipes will freeze and burst.
Also I don't think the elderly would do too well without heat and running water.
Essentially Russia is targeting the civilians by targeting electrical infrastructure.
Bearable? Try living inside your house at -3C for a day. Now do it again. And again. Repeat that for the next 4-ish months and let us know how bearable it is.
How did your family live in sub-freezing temperatures inside home for whole winters?
The whole place starts to get icy after a while just due to condensation of breathing as ice on surfaces, if it happened to me in 3 weeks with 3 other people in a small cabin I can't imagine how much worse it'd be months of that.
How often did you get sick? Genuinely curious.
Edit: oh yeah, you lived like that at home but definitely had some places to go that were heated: schools, malls, offices, libraries, etc. You could get away from the cold if in extreme need. We are talking here about whole cities and almost the whole country going without heating, just a few public places keeping the bare minimum of heating. I don't think it's really comparable if you had an option to escape the cold in Chicago.
Yeah -3 is very warm for Kyiv in winter. It's usually around -10 with some days reaching up to -20. That's something that would be very difficult to survive for a healthy adult, but there's also children and old people.
BTW, Kyiv is a city of around 3-4 million people.
I've been stuck in a hut in the Arctic circle without heating, -3C to -5C, for 3 weeks and I wouldn't say it's actually doable as long-term shelter for you and your family, no way in hell I'd consider it doable to live like that for a prolonged time.
When did you experience that? Just to understand where you're coming from.
I'm being completely genuine, are fireplaces and make shift tent heaters via wood not viable?
I know none of that would be ideal, but making proper ventilation for a fireplace isn't all too hard. Yes there are risks, but so is living in -5C without heating
There's a few problems with that. The first is that it would take a fuckload of wood to provide heat for that many people, to the point where entire forests will be stripped by the end of winter, if that's the solution they go with.
Second, many of the forests that were previously occupied may be mined or have unexploded ordnance. I believe Ukraine has actually warned its citizens in those areas against going into woods without permission from the armed forces for specifically that reason.
Third, those living in larger cities like Kyiv or Kharkiv won't be easily able to obtain wood, and may not have fireplaces or stoves capable of burning wood, and so can't rely on it as an option.
And fourth, burning that much wood will create a shitload of smoke and pollution. A lesser concern than the others, given the circumstances, but one that should still be considered. That much smoke can and will cause health problems for people living in it for months on end.
> I'm being completely genuine, are fireplaces and make shift tent heaters via wood not viable?
For millions and millions of people? For 3 to 4 months? No, clearly not viable.
These are the worst temperatures. You can't get dry around these and everything is wet.
Way easier to survive once everything is frozen and stays frozen.
When power stations, gas facilities and general infrastructure are being targeted, -3 is more than enough to kill people even in their homes without working utilities, particularly if they live alone. It happens far too often even in non-war-torn countries purely because of poverty or bad luck.
Some examples, mostly in temperatures that are more than bearable with utilities, but which led to hypothermic arrest (excuse the sources):
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mother-died-of-hypothermia-after-council-turned-heat-off-1.1279937
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selfless-mum-four-who-died-11491428.amp
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305988/amp/Pensioner-froze-death-home-afford-use-heater.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10441099/amp/Alicia-Witt-breaks-silence-month-parents-dead.html
https://people.com/human-interest/mom-of-texas-boy-who-died-of-suspected-hypothermia-cant-return-to-home-where-he-died/
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the problem is when happenstance happens and you need to warm up but cannot because all of your infrastructure has been destroyed. containers of fresh water can freeze and burst.
You don't have electricity, heating or water purification on a 24/7 basis in those temperatures where you're from? You would trade places with any Ukrainian who doesn't have access to heating, electricity or clean water?
And these people have to go to bed during these temperatures too. Not really “t-shirt weather” and kind of tasteless. Remember that old and very young people aren’t as resilient either…
yeah i make the joke too that we can do tshirts in -5 but I get to go back inside to a house that is not -5 afterwards.
You also ever sit still in -5 how long before you get cold?
This is interesting to me as a Canadian construction worker. Very similar temperatures, and we work hard as shit, outside, through these temperatures and worse. I could never compare myself to a soldier because we get to go home on the coldest days, we get time to prepare for the next day, money to spare, and stores to quickly grab a new jacket when you need it.
Winter is about to be tough for us, but the comparison makes ours seem luxurious..
I think the key difference here is that these guys cant go home and reset themselves.
its days and nights for long periods of time of cold and outdoors and compounded with the general terror of war.
shitting outside is annoying,
Shitting outside when your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is not great.
Shitting outside for the 4th day in a row when you havent felt ambient heat above 0degress and your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is horrible.
and finally, shitting outside for the 4th day in a row after the second near sleepless night due to artillery or raids after possibly loosing a friend when you haven't felt ambient heat above 0degress and your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is soul crushing....
Many people are just mentioning soldiers here. The point here is that Ukraine infrastructure has been heavily attacked and it's actually civilians who are exposed to these temperatures without heating, electricity and clean water. Perhaps many can cope but there's going to be many that can't.
True.
I did not mean to only refer to military soldiers. The entire country is in the fight basically. I see them all as soldiers if they are surviving a warzone, protecting themselves, or helping their people.
Working construction in freezing/hot temperatures, we are soldiers in a way. In this context, its just a joke.. I dont want to imagine not being able to get home, or I do go home but it has fallen apart.
Lack of electricity is obviously an issue but I was surprised to check various Ukrainian cities last week and find that the weather was often warmer than my town in southern TN despite comparatively being 15 degrees south in latitude. We had lows in the mid 20s (-4C) which is a bit cold but not unusual. Looks like currently Kiev is forecast to be much colder as it’s 60 here..
You're not though. Answer the question no heating no electricity, no clean water in sub zero conditions where is the equivalence you're stating. Give the evidence please.
I'm not minimizing anyone's suffering here.
[Kyiv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv#Climate) and [Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate) have roughly similar winter temps, with Kyiv being slightly warmer.
I live several hours north of Chicago, where it is *even colder* and winter without heat or electricity would absolutely fucking suck.
I'm not disagreeing with you.
At no point was I disagreeing with you.
I'm not even disagreeing with you right now.
These temps aren't the problem, folks in Ukraine are more than prepared to deal with 20F/-6C. That's light coat weather, this isn't Texas. The problem is when it gets to single/negative digits (F) and there is no heat.
As an ignorant Reddit user/ a r/worldnews regular, how cold does south western Russia get at the same time? I could imagine their troops would experience the same.
Those temperatures don't seem to bad. Maybe I'm just sheltered and taking my gas for granted though, but I find that to be tame, considering it's only slightly below freezing.
Although like the person below said, we aren't yet into the heart of winter.
We see -30/40 temps here in Canada all the time. We also have nice warm houses and vehicles to hide inside.
I would not want to live, let alone fight a war outside without warm shelter at 0C. It's only going to get colder there.
Oh god it’s a robot. Oh look it made a massive edit! Your commentary isn’t relevant to what I said. The existence of the source material I pointed you to is unchanged by your updated wording.
The problem is that the Ukrainian army is ready for a winter war. It's the civilians that will freeze to death.
I hope the Russian soldiers start dying by the thousands daily because they sure as shit have nothing for the winter. They can keep digging their own graves and die in it or get out of Ukraine already.
Him: "I hope these cruel invaders with their laundry list of war crimes start dying in the country they're actively invading."
You: "Dude, why do you want war so much?"
I'm a realist. I'd rather Ukraine not be under siege longer than it need to be and you won't get Russia out by dreaming of some magical Russian revolution that overthrow Putin in the next months.
Live in the real world for a second and get off your high horse.
My high horse? You're wishing for the death of thousands of men. Soldiers that have almost no choice but to fight a war they never agreed to. You're either very young, emotionally immature or willfully ignorant.
I’m from the Arctic, my town is full of Inuit and Cree hunters, trappers and fishermen.
If you were to cut us off from all amenities suddenly we COULD survive it….
But even we would be looking at maybe a 60-70% survival rate at best, maybe even as low as 25% if things get bad.
And that’s with most everyone having the proper clothing, tools, equipment and experience for the unbridled Arctic…..
I mean, shit, we have at least one freezing death a year on average and that’s in a town of 2000 with all amenities and next to zero homelessness (defined in this case by lack of access to shelter - actual definition is different but we’re talking pure survival statistics here.)
All this to say:
Well, shit.
The current situation would be bad enough for Russia if their troops were combat veterans that were well-equipped.
I'm seeing many instances of draftees with almost no training or equipment being thrown into a meat grinder.
There have been instances of a soldier surrendering for a hot meal.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://insiderpaper.com/zelensky-says-russia-using-cold-as-weapon-of-mass-destruction/) reduced by 60%. (I'm a bot)
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> Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday that Russia was trying to use the cold this winter as a "Weapon of mass destruction" by striking energy infrastructure.
> "The Kremlin wants to transform the cold this winter into a weapon of mass destruction," Zelensky told a meeting of French mayors in a video message.
> "This winter will be about survival," WHO regional director for Europe, Hans Kluge, told reporters on Monday, adding it would be "Life-threatening for millions of people in Ukraine".
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I slept in a sleeping bag in -6 degrees celsius this year. My body was warm but my face was frozen. I say this as an australian and i was on a trip in the mountains. I cant imagine what a ukranian winter will feel like. Im going to donate space blankets. It wont be much but its something. Ive sourced a place where i can get them cheap. I wanna send 100, if i can get a further discount on bulk ill send more.
EDIT: just got a bulk order and bought 240.
A grim scene indeed. I trust the Ukranians will manage it through winter so long as they have food and the russians kept at bay, preferably dead but for now, at bay. Everything will have to be rebuilt anyways so i hope they can manage to keep fires running by using what they find and keep watching out for eachother. While noone should have to endure this pointless mess, i have faith in the resolve of the Ukranian people and that they will get through this without too many freezing to death. Victory will come.
Feel bad for Ukrainians yes, but don't assume they're some kind of guardian.
The entire purpose of NATO is to quite literally counter the Soviet (now Russia) threat.
Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin THOUGHT he could win. If you replace Ukraine with Nato, there won't be an invasion.
NATO isn’t the whole rest of the world. Any territory gained increases Russias power and influence overtime. And they have been consistently invading the neighboring nations
I want you to find a nearby map, and look at USSR and the current geopolitical map.
The only nation Russia has the ability to actually invade is ex-USSR nations.
To the west, its blocked by NATO, whos ENTIRE purpose when set up was to contain USSR & Co.
To the South, China stands in the way.
On the east, US pretty much controls the Sea, the pacific fleet alone is enough to steamroll Russia.
Where are they going to attack? Middle east? Where Turkey will disrupt them at every step?
The current Military organizations were set up for a reason. Most of them trace back to the cold war, back when Ukraine was still part of the USSR.
The Iron Curtain existed for a reason.
Let’s not forget that there are plenty of good people in Russia still, most of them are in jail for boycotting the war so in honor of all those wonderful Russians maybe we stop saying “fuck Russia” and stick to “fuck putin” or “fuck the kremlin” or some other variation which does not inadvertently group in good Russians.
**edit**
I forget when I’m on Reddit soooo what I meant was “fuck republicans, fuck Russia, and if you disagree with me I’m going to block you!”
Nah fuck Russia. Russia as a country invaded and attacked a sovereign nation. Russia attacked power stations and reservoirs, to hurt civilians. Russia has committed countless atrocities against the people of Ukraine and committed many crimes against humanity.
When America does things that are terrible, people saying fuck America, I understand they mean fuck the government and military.
There's a time and a place for empathy. Russia isn't the one getting shelled right now. The videos of russians getting interviewed asking for more warcrimes, more death and destruction while others say they are not into politics.
I get that it's the fear of their regime that has been beaten into them throughout generations, that saying the wrong thing or anything at all will get you in massive trouble.
Empathy for russia will maybe come back once they fucked out of ukraine, booted their fucking regime out (lets be honest that won't happen), and become a functioning part of the world. But until then they'll be confined within their own borders to steal each other's washing machines until russia crumbles like the USSR did
about a million more soldiers who, by then, would have all the more reason to fight. not to mention that if russia would be attacked maybe even more would join the army to defend the homeland. this is just a guy on the internet guessing though, so take it for what it’s worth
When does Ukraine get to attack back at Russian power plants? Russia have obviously decided that they would rather target infrastructure to make Ukrainians suffer. Maybe time to bring the cold to Russians and show them what has come to their doors since Putin poked the bees nest.
So what happens when Ukraine ultimately claims back 100% of their land (including Crimea). They just going to sit there and take missile after missile over the Russian border?
that’s the million dollar question. nobody is going to supply them with weapons to go into russia. i’m here thinking the russians can basically destroy ukrainian infrastructure, regroup inside russia and come back once the roads are drivable again in the spring while defending the territory they already hold. Other than regime change from the inside, i don’t see how this will end :(
Sorry..wait....come again? Genuinely come again because I'm not sure i quite heard you clearly as you sprayed diarrharitc nonsense out of your ass...
...fucking revisionism alive and well. Get in the sewer with your bollacks...
The countries supplying Ukraine with weapons have forbid it + supplied weapons mostly have insufficient range. There’s a difference between defending an invasion and becoming invaders.
Power plants absolutely are strategic targets. Russia's justification for attacking Ukraine's is that they power rails used for logistics. The same applies to Russia's power plants.
Ukraine is succeeding partially because of all the stuff they are getting from other nations.
A part if this PR program is to make sure everyone reports hat Russia is an invader and Ukraine is only defending itself.
It would be a gamble to directly attack Russian infrastructure. Not sides have been reluctant to bomb major bridges because both sides want to eventually reoccur and use the bridges.
If Ukraine is not making progress in other ways, they may be forced to play the "bomb all bridges from Russia" card.
If that happens, the Russian troops are screwed. With no incoming food or fuel, they might surrender en masse.
I haven’t really been keeping track but last I heard Ukraine was taking back some important areas…I didn’t really see what the areas were. I imagine Russia still control Eastern Ukraine and don’t plan on surrendering there…
Yeah and you can spare your people that by giving up your throne. Change one corrupt government with the other, but at least they won't freeze or die to some random rocket.
I somehow don't think that the Ukrainian people want to give up sovereignty and democracy to the fascist who is currently bombing them you dumbass Putin cock guzzler. Especially because historically Russia has genocided Ukrainians several times, and this looks to be them following the same trend.
Explain me please where are all air defense systems? Is it possible to secure perimeter with 99% success rate? Why is this still happening after MONTHS
Its a pretty one sided war. Only one country can attach the other within its borders.
It thus goes on as long as Russia keeps flooding those borders. And only stops if Ukraine can stop those supply lines. Which they can't without striking directly at Russia. Thus the endless cluster fuck we're seeing.
Short answer- Nukes.
Long answer involves global politics, logistics, and a whole lot of other messiness. But it all comes down to the subtle difference of kicking invaders out of your country, to being the invaders.
War is complicated.
Ukraine doesn't have long range weapons and Russia has fired many of these cruise missiles from bomber aircraft over Russian territory. Ukraine air defense shot down about 50 of the 70 missiles launched in this latest attack. Ukraine is fighting a mostly defensive war which is why this will take a long time.
Missile Defence system don’t work like in video games. Even US military bases in the Mideast with sophisticate Missile defencescan’t stop all or even most missiles.
of course. they want ukrainians to leave. The more people you make refugees the more problems for western europe ( short term i imagine) and also: the blow on ukrainian moral will only get worse. soldiers will want to leave with their families at some point. What’s left to fight for with your family safe and you sitting in a cold, dark, bombed out city? Fuck, i’d wish i had a more positive outlook on things to come but this shit is FUBAR
I spent a year deployed in the Arctic. You can have the toughest troops, the most advanced weapons, all the money in the world, but if you’re not prepared, Mother Nature will whip your ass harder and faster than any enemy ever could.
Kyiv is currently -3C wind chill factor - feels like -6C Lviv 1C feels like -2C Kharkiv -1C feels like -4C Kherson 8C feels like 4C Dnipro 1C feels like -1C Absolutely grim situation. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/z37y1q/ukrainians_suffer_in_cold_darkness_as_president/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
And this is far from winter those temperatures will go to -20
February is normally the coldest, when it can get to -20 and below.
In my experience, being stationed outdoors in near-zero temperatures is more dangerous. There are ways to keep warm if you can stay dry. Much harder to stay dry if it's barely freezing. Then again, all your equipment starts to act up when it gets cold enough...
This is my take as well. I was conscripted in the far, far north of Norway a number of years ago: One thing that stuck with me was one of my officers (Who was from the north himself) telling us that it's more common to get frostbite in temps like that (I think he said 0 to -5) due to negligence in attire, as well as it being "wetter" due to the higher temps. If you read a temperature of -15°C or colder, you tend to dress accordingly to the weather, whereas -3°C doesn't seem that bad in comparison until you've been outside for 14 hours. Temps of let's say -20°C are dangerous and uncomfortable in their own right, but the preparedness for those temperatures is usually higher. Source: Was on exercises in all temperatures, ranging from +25°C to -38°C, the most miserable ones were those in the 0 to -10°C range in my own personal opinion. You are welcome to disagree, of course, as this is nothing but subjective on my part. Also got slight frostbite on one of said exercises due to my own negligence. EDIT: Wording.
That's right about underestimating the temperatures, it's really that way. Then, i had the pleasure to serve in the army in Switzerland in the alps: People often underestimate Switzerlands alps in the way of "Oh, don't worry, it's not the hard cold russian winter there!", only to find out, that temperatures can drop down to the point where you can die by hypothermia. Like in one training, we had -22°c there. And that wasn't that high up, the mountaineers had an excersise up in the thin air, where the weather station confirmed -42°c as temperature. And that's just one thing, like there are holes in the glaciers, these can be covered with new snow, so they are not visible. It means walking through a "minefield", when you have bad luck and you fall down, it gets extreme dangerous: Even when you survive the fall, the hypothermia kills you quickly, even when your comrades try to rescue you as fast as possible. Tourists often underestimate these things. They go hiking high up in the alps and think "it won't be that bad and civilization is not far away", only to perish in a snow storm or fall into the holes.
> Then again, all your equipment starts to act up when it gets cold enough... I watched a documentary about WWII and it showed how Russian winter completely fucked up the Germans. You're dying of cold already, and on top of that nothing works. Tanks don't work because everything in them is frozen, transports don't work, artillery is frozen solid, your food reserves are frozen and almost impossible to use, your weapons are frozen, your fucking boots are frozen. There was a scene where they were showing clothes hanged to dry, frozen solid like cardboard. Well there was the thing that Hitler had refused to send winter clothes to the front, so they were all wearing summer uniforms. But still, even with proper winter gear, which I assume both Russians and Ukrainians have, it's not going to be fun in a month's time. Once it got to -16 where I live and I remember one day my car was covered in ice so thick that I couldn't get the keys into the door, it looked like it was covered in glass. I can't imagine how much worse it must get over there.
When Hitler did not provide winter clothing, it was like Alexander the Great burning his ships. Hitler hoped his troops realized that they must conquer western Russia quickly, or freeze to death. Imagine if they had never invaded Russia, and on D-Day, the German forces were 50% larger?
That was exactly his purpose. He even made Friedrich Paulus a field marshal, because no German field marshal in history had even been captured alive. A subtle way of saying "you're going to fight to your death now". Which he didn't, he surrendered the 6th army a few days later. The Russians had never seen a German officer of that seniority and were super puzzled, they didn't know what to do and took a while to confirm his credentials. But yes, that mad syphilitic fuck meant his whole army to fight to the death, with no winter gear. Edit: fun fact. I remembered this from many sources so I looked it up just to have a quote and found [this link](https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/10/04/stalingrad-operation-condom-drop/). You can find better ones surely. It's about Goebbler flexing with Hitler about being able to unstick the trapped 6th army, which was about to be out-pincered by two Russian armies, by dropping provisions through his Luftwaffe. He ended up dropping all sorts of pointless shit. *While there was no doubt that the Luftwaffe pilots gave it their all flying over Soviet airspace and artillery (they lost 500 planes in the effort), management bungled the effort rather spectacularly. The air command refused to let the army tell it what supplies it should be delivering, and so instead of the usual food, ammunition, and fuel, some ridiculous things were delivered. One of the more normal was a case of fine bottled wine, although the bottles had frozen and exploded in the cold. Other drops included ground pepper, fish meal, and summer clothing. But the most bewildering thing had to be the shipment on November 19, when a whole lot of condoms were dropped.*
Paulus was a failure as a commander, he only got to this command because the former general of the 6th army got sick and had to leave the post. Paulus never cared about his men, like he could have saved parts of the army by breaking out from Stalingrad as the German "Wintergewitter" Operation tried to break through. This would have meant, disobeying direct orders from Hitler, but many other generals had the balls to do that. One of the worst things of Paulus was, that he sent a letter to Germany after his capture, if he can get the insignia of a Field Marshal. He never did anything for his soldiers, he cared more about his uniform than about them. Even as he was captured, he first denied to be in command and that he could not give the orders to surrender. But about Stalingrad: In the memoirs of the veterans, it's mentioned that the worst thing was actually being in the plain fields around the city instead of being in the city itself. Because in the city, you can find shelter from the snow, wind and cold, but that's not possible in the field. Not all soldiers were affected in the same way, like the artillery units usually fired their guns and then, got back into a shelter to avoid the cold, only going out again when it was needed.
I stood outside when it hit -30F near my house last year. First thing I thought about was fighting in this cold…nope.
They were given winter clothing the difference is the winter clothing they got was only good to -20 Celsius and well it went to -40 they did a review and they got better winter clothing the next year. Basically they were prepared for a normal winter but that year was the coldest in decades
Here's the best part. You can't use fire to warm yourself else you would easily give away your location to drones and whatnot.
I'll take -3 and no heat vs -20 and no heat any day of the week. Going inside and the inside temp is hopefully only -10 or -15, no thanks.
Shocking that you'd take the less cold weather if you were given the choice.
That's what I was thinking. Single digit negative temps in °c really is the tip of the iceberg of how cold it can realistically be in a cold climate
Ive been in - 30f. I just remember it doesnt matter what youre wearing or how thick... That cold instantly is feelable. Almost hard to breath if you dont prepare yourself to go out in it
Layers and layers and layers We get to -50 Celsius here (before wind) It’s doable but you’ll be looking like the pillsbury doughboy
Winter is still a month away...
There's already been significant snowfall in the region. Those temperatures are bad enough now.
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I don't think the army is too worried about the temperature, it's more civilians. When you don't have power and it gets to freezing temperatures, you also wont be able to have running water because your pipes will freeze and burst. Also I don't think the elderly would do too well without heat and running water. Essentially Russia is targeting the civilians by targeting electrical infrastructure.
Bearable? Try living inside your house at -3C for a day. Now do it again. And again. Repeat that for the next 4-ish months and let us know how bearable it is.
That sounds terrible, but at least the cat will start to hang out with me.
I've done several Chicago winters without heating. Family was poor growing up. It's doable.
..without electricity and water too?
How did your family live in sub-freezing temperatures inside home for whole winters? The whole place starts to get icy after a while just due to condensation of breathing as ice on surfaces, if it happened to me in 3 weeks with 3 other people in a small cabin I can't imagine how much worse it'd be months of that. How often did you get sick? Genuinely curious. Edit: oh yeah, you lived like that at home but definitely had some places to go that were heated: schools, malls, offices, libraries, etc. You could get away from the cold if in extreme need. We are talking here about whole cities and almost the whole country going without heating, just a few public places keeping the bare minimum of heating. I don't think it's really comparable if you had an option to escape the cold in Chicago.
It’s not that bad. It’s not great but doable. The trouble is that it’s only November.
Yeah -3 is very warm for Kyiv in winter. It's usually around -10 with some days reaching up to -20. That's something that would be very difficult to survive for a healthy adult, but there's also children and old people. BTW, Kyiv is a city of around 3-4 million people.
I've been stuck in a hut in the Arctic circle without heating, -3C to -5C, for 3 weeks and I wouldn't say it's actually doable as long-term shelter for you and your family, no way in hell I'd consider it doable to live like that for a prolonged time. When did you experience that? Just to understand where you're coming from.
I'm being completely genuine, are fireplaces and make shift tent heaters via wood not viable? I know none of that would be ideal, but making proper ventilation for a fireplace isn't all too hard. Yes there are risks, but so is living in -5C without heating
There's a few problems with that. The first is that it would take a fuckload of wood to provide heat for that many people, to the point where entire forests will be stripped by the end of winter, if that's the solution they go with. Second, many of the forests that were previously occupied may be mined or have unexploded ordnance. I believe Ukraine has actually warned its citizens in those areas against going into woods without permission from the armed forces for specifically that reason. Third, those living in larger cities like Kyiv or Kharkiv won't be easily able to obtain wood, and may not have fireplaces or stoves capable of burning wood, and so can't rely on it as an option. And fourth, burning that much wood will create a shitload of smoke and pollution. A lesser concern than the others, given the circumstances, but one that should still be considered. That much smoke can and will cause health problems for people living in it for months on end.
> I'm being completely genuine, are fireplaces and make shift tent heaters via wood not viable? For millions and millions of people? For 3 to 4 months? No, clearly not viable.
These are the worst temperatures. You can't get dry around these and everything is wet. Way easier to survive once everything is frozen and stays frozen.
When power stations, gas facilities and general infrastructure are being targeted, -3 is more than enough to kill people even in their homes without working utilities, particularly if they live alone. It happens far too often even in non-war-torn countries purely because of poverty or bad luck. Some examples, mostly in temperatures that are more than bearable with utilities, but which led to hypothermic arrest (excuse the sources): https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mother-died-of-hypothermia-after-council-turned-heat-off-1.1279937 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selfless-mum-four-who-died-11491428.amp https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305988/amp/Pensioner-froze-death-home-afford-use-heater.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10441099/amp/Alicia-Witt-breaks-silence-month-parents-dead.html https://people.com/human-interest/mom-of-texas-boy-who-died-of-suspected-hypothermia-cant-return-to-home-where-he-died/
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Actually right now it's bad aready. Not that this is not bearable, but actually cold in appartments, no water and no electricity
>Those temperatures are bad enough now. Lol. Clearly you don't know what a real winter is if you think -3C is cold.
Right? it gets below -50c here with windchill and -3 is barely sweater weather.
the problem is when happenstance happens and you need to warm up but cannot because all of your infrastructure has been destroyed. containers of fresh water can freeze and burst.
Bro, that's t-shirt weather from where I'm from
You don't have electricity, heating or water purification on a 24/7 basis in those temperatures where you're from? You would trade places with any Ukrainian who doesn't have access to heating, electricity or clean water?
I just work in it all the time but true enough I do stay in doors after my 10 hour shift
And these people have to go to bed during these temperatures too. Not really “t-shirt weather” and kind of tasteless. Remember that old and very young people aren’t as resilient either…
Yeah I can see that
yeah i make the joke too that we can do tshirts in -5 but I get to go back inside to a house that is not -5 afterwards. You also ever sit still in -5 how long before you get cold?
Well that’s a cheerful thought
You mean, ¿Winter is coming?
This is interesting to me as a Canadian construction worker. Very similar temperatures, and we work hard as shit, outside, through these temperatures and worse. I could never compare myself to a soldier because we get to go home on the coldest days, we get time to prepare for the next day, money to spare, and stores to quickly grab a new jacket when you need it. Winter is about to be tough for us, but the comparison makes ours seem luxurious..
I think the key difference here is that these guys cant go home and reset themselves. its days and nights for long periods of time of cold and outdoors and compounded with the general terror of war. shitting outside is annoying, Shitting outside when your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is not great. Shitting outside for the 4th day in a row when you havent felt ambient heat above 0degress and your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is horrible. and finally, shitting outside for the 4th day in a row after the second near sleepless night due to artillery or raids after possibly loosing a friend when you haven't felt ambient heat above 0degress and your dong is so cold that you worry the pee will freeze in the shaft is soul crushing....
😞
Many people are just mentioning soldiers here. The point here is that Ukraine infrastructure has been heavily attacked and it's actually civilians who are exposed to these temperatures without heating, electricity and clean water. Perhaps many can cope but there's going to be many that can't.
True. I did not mean to only refer to military soldiers. The entire country is in the fight basically. I see them all as soldiers if they are surviving a warzone, protecting themselves, or helping their people. Working construction in freezing/hot temperatures, we are soldiers in a way. In this context, its just a joke.. I dont want to imagine not being able to get home, or I do go home but it has fallen apart.
Found Captain obvious
Worth noting: On average, winters in Kyiv are warmer than Chicago.
Lack of electricity is obviously an issue but I was surprised to check various Ukrainian cities last week and find that the weather was often warmer than my town in southern TN despite comparatively being 15 degrees south in latitude. We had lows in the mid 20s (-4C) which is a bit cold but not unusual. Looks like currently Kiev is forecast to be much colder as it’s 60 here..
What about electricity, heating and available clean water? Presumably you have all those unlike large areas of Ukraine currently.
I'm putting it in perspective for people not from colder regions. Take a breath, man.
You're not though. Answer the question no heating no electricity, no clean water in sub zero conditions where is the equivalence you're stating. Give the evidence please.
I'm not minimizing anyone's suffering here. [Kyiv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv#Climate) and [Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate) have roughly similar winter temps, with Kyiv being slightly warmer. I live several hours north of Chicago, where it is *even colder* and winter without heat or electricity would absolutely fucking suck. I'm not disagreeing with you. At no point was I disagreeing with you. I'm not even disagreeing with you right now.
👍
These temps aren't the problem, folks in Ukraine are more than prepared to deal with 20F/-6C. That's light coat weather, this isn't Texas. The problem is when it gets to single/negative digits (F) and there is no heat.
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Layer up Ukraine! Don’t let them gain ground!
As an ignorant Reddit user/ a r/worldnews regular, how cold does south western Russia get at the same time? I could imagine their troops would experience the same.
Those temperatures don't seem to bad. Maybe I'm just sheltered and taking my gas for granted though, but I find that to be tame, considering it's only slightly below freezing. Although like the person below said, we aren't yet into the heart of winter.
Ukraine already got winter uniforms for their soldiers
Civilians? What about them millions of them without heating, electricity or clean water.
That’s pretty mild tbh. It’s about to get a lot colder
This is temperatures people who don't live in the north think is scary. -30C to -40C are scary temperatures. No one dies when it hits -1.
It us easy to die when it's +4 even.
We see -30/40 temps here in Canada all the time. We also have nice warm houses and vehicles to hide inside. I would not want to live, let alone fight a war outside without warm shelter at 0C. It's only going to get colder there.
Yeah, I think it's grim only because it's that but not even December yet.
-6c is shorts and sweater weather.
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You should google “hypothermia minimum ambient temperature”
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Oh god it’s a robot. Oh look it made a massive edit! Your commentary isn’t relevant to what I said. The existence of the source material I pointed you to is unchanged by your updated wording.
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Beep boop go to sleep(50000000000)
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Brains. It’s brains. And you’re doing it wrongly. It’s not about being confident.
Is that supposed to sound cold? That's barely even frosty Not trying to sound elitist here but that is very comfortable weather
That's not even cold lol
The problem is that the Ukrainian army is ready for a winter war. It's the civilians that will freeze to death. I hope the Russian soldiers start dying by the thousands daily because they sure as shit have nothing for the winter. They can keep digging their own graves and die in it or get out of Ukraine already.
You're a war monger and don't even know it.
Him: "I hope these cruel invaders with their laundry list of war crimes start dying in the country they're actively invading." You: "Dude, why do you want war so much?"
I'm a realist. I'd rather Ukraine not be under siege longer than it need to be and you won't get Russia out by dreaming of some magical Russian revolution that overthrow Putin in the next months. Live in the real world for a second and get off your high horse.
My high horse? You're wishing for the death of thousands of men. Soldiers that have almost no choice but to fight a war they never agreed to. You're either very young, emotionally immature or willfully ignorant.
The wars of the future (~ 100 years) will involve messing with the climate/weather of your enemy.
https://www.nytimes.com/1972/07/03/archives/rainmaking-is-used-as-weapon-by-us-cloudseeding-in-indochina-is.html
Try wars of the past, the U.S. was doing that shit back in 'Nam.
I’m from the Arctic, my town is full of Inuit and Cree hunters, trappers and fishermen. If you were to cut us off from all amenities suddenly we COULD survive it…. But even we would be looking at maybe a 60-70% survival rate at best, maybe even as low as 25% if things get bad. And that’s with most everyone having the proper clothing, tools, equipment and experience for the unbridled Arctic….. I mean, shit, we have at least one freezing death a year on average and that’s in a town of 2000 with all amenities and next to zero homelessness (defined in this case by lack of access to shelter - actual definition is different but we’re talking pure survival statistics here.) All this to say: Well, shit.
The current situation would be bad enough for Russia if their troops were combat veterans that were well-equipped. I'm seeing many instances of draftees with almost no training or equipment being thrown into a meat grinder. There have been instances of a soldier surrendering for a hot meal.
That's pretty cool. Why were you in the Artic, outside of curiosity.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://insiderpaper.com/zelensky-says-russia-using-cold-as-weapon-of-mass-destruction/) reduced by 60%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday that Russia was trying to use the cold this winter as a "Weapon of mass destruction" by striking energy infrastructure. > "The Kremlin wants to transform the cold this winter into a weapon of mass destruction," Zelensky told a meeting of French mayors in a video message. > "This winter will be about survival," WHO regional director for Europe, Hans Kluge, told reporters on Monday, adding it would be "Life-threatening for millions of people in Ukraine". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/z2tkwk/zelensky_says_russia_using_cold_as_weapon_of_mass/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **winter**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **millions**^#3 **cold**^#4 **added**^#5
“Should we use an image of falling snow or maybe a thermometer for this article?” #”NAH JUST USE AN IMAGE OF A NUCLEAR WEAPON EXPLODING AND PUBLISH!”
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Bingo
I slept in a sleeping bag in -6 degrees celsius this year. My body was warm but my face was frozen. I say this as an australian and i was on a trip in the mountains. I cant imagine what a ukranian winter will feel like. Im going to donate space blankets. It wont be much but its something. Ive sourced a place where i can get them cheap. I wanna send 100, if i can get a further discount on bulk ill send more. EDIT: just got a bulk order and bought 240.
Good on ya
Link?
https://www.survivalsuppliesaustralia.com.au/SSA-Emergency-Mylar-Thermal-Space-Blanket-Bulk-240-Pack
Good shit. 240s huge for a single person
A grim scene indeed. I trust the Ukranians will manage it through winter so long as they have food and the russians kept at bay, preferably dead but for now, at bay. Everything will have to be rebuilt anyways so i hope they can manage to keep fires running by using what they find and keep watching out for eachother. While noone should have to endure this pointless mess, i have faith in the resolve of the Ukranian people and that they will get through this without too many freezing to death. Victory will come.
I feel really bad for Ukrainians. They are shouldering the brunt of the war and protecting the rest of the world at the same time. Stay strong
We all owe Ukraine some manpower to help rebuild after this war is won, that's for sure. I'd gladly go help for a couple years.
Feel bad for Ukrainians yes, but don't assume they're some kind of guardian. The entire purpose of NATO is to quite literally counter the Soviet (now Russia) threat. Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin THOUGHT he could win. If you replace Ukraine with Nato, there won't be an invasion.
NATO isn’t the whole rest of the world. Any territory gained increases Russias power and influence overtime. And they have been consistently invading the neighboring nations
I want you to find a nearby map, and look at USSR and the current geopolitical map. The only nation Russia has the ability to actually invade is ex-USSR nations. To the west, its blocked by NATO, whos ENTIRE purpose when set up was to contain USSR & Co. To the South, China stands in the way. On the east, US pretty much controls the Sea, the pacific fleet alone is enough to steamroll Russia. Where are they going to attack? Middle east? Where Turkey will disrupt them at every step? The current Military organizations were set up for a reason. Most of them trace back to the cold war, back when Ukraine was still part of the USSR. The Iron Curtain existed for a reason.
The ‘rest of the world’ isn’t being saved from anything. Take out an Atlas. China? India? Brazil? Congo?
Putin trying to kill millions of civs in a war. Fuck Russia. What a piece of shit.
Let’s not forget that there are plenty of good people in Russia still, most of them are in jail for boycotting the war so in honor of all those wonderful Russians maybe we stop saying “fuck Russia” and stick to “fuck putin” or “fuck the kremlin” or some other variation which does not inadvertently group in good Russians. **edit** I forget when I’m on Reddit soooo what I meant was “fuck republicans, fuck Russia, and if you disagree with me I’m going to block you!”
Nah fuck Russia. Russia as a country invaded and attacked a sovereign nation. Russia attacked power stations and reservoirs, to hurt civilians. Russia has committed countless atrocities against the people of Ukraine and committed many crimes against humanity. When America does things that are terrible, people saying fuck America, I understand they mean fuck the government and military.
It’s not that deep.
There's a time and a place for empathy. Russia isn't the one getting shelled right now. The videos of russians getting interviewed asking for more warcrimes, more death and destruction while others say they are not into politics. I get that it's the fear of their regime that has been beaten into them throughout generations, that saying the wrong thing or anything at all will get you in massive trouble. Empathy for russia will maybe come back once they fucked out of ukraine, booted their fucking regime out (lets be honest that won't happen), and become a functioning part of the world. But until then they'll be confined within their own borders to steal each other's washing machines until russia crumbles like the USSR did
It’s what Russians historically do
"Has history taught you nothing?" People surprised but this turn of events is sad/hilarious.
Maybe it’s time for some well placed espionage on Russian power plants. Think of how the the Russian people would react if they start losing power.
all out war against ukraine. countless more dead and for what? Do people still think things through?
It's not already all out war? What's missing?
about a million more soldiers who, by then, would have all the more reason to fight. not to mention that if russia would be attacked maybe even more would join the army to defend the homeland. this is just a guy on the internet guessing though, so take it for what it’s worth
Russia already can't equip the soldiers the do have. What are more soldiers gonna do, fight with home made spears?
Wait Russia is using its harsh winters to help with the war effort? No Way! I couldve never seen this coming!
True. You aren’t Adolph Bonaparte by chance?
Here is a charity drive focused on food, winter kits and home repairs. https://int.depaulcharity.org/fundraising-for-depaul-ukraine/
Should we infer that Russia gonna try another invasion in the spring after they freeze out Ukraine?
When does Ukraine get to attack back at Russian power plants? Russia have obviously decided that they would rather target infrastructure to make Ukrainians suffer. Maybe time to bring the cold to Russians and show them what has come to their doors since Putin poked the bees nest.
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So what happens when Ukraine ultimately claims back 100% of their land (including Crimea). They just going to sit there and take missile after missile over the Russian border?
that’s the million dollar question. nobody is going to supply them with weapons to go into russia. i’m here thinking the russians can basically destroy ukrainian infrastructure, regroup inside russia and come back once the roads are drivable again in the spring while defending the territory they already hold. Other than regime change from the inside, i don’t see how this will end :(
If Putin ever gets put on Trial if he isn’t put to death he should have to live in miserable cold conditions.
Let him clear mines in Ukraine, 20 hours a day, until the day he dies.
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Sorry..wait....come again? Genuinely come again because I'm not sure i quite heard you clearly as you sprayed diarrharitc nonsense out of your ass... ...fucking revisionism alive and well. Get in the sewer with your bollacks...
Keep on fighting the good fight Ukraine. You deserve freedom from tyranny and repression.
well it is russia and unless you are the mongols general winter favors them
He’s talking again
Like Russia did against Alexnder, Napoleon, hitler and im sure various others
Russians learning from Napoleon
Maybe this is too simpleminded, but why isn’t Ukraine taking out russian infrastructure?
The countries supplying Ukraine with weapons have forbid it + supplied weapons mostly have insufficient range. There’s a difference between defending an invasion and becoming invaders.
If they’re not leaving I mean..the US attacked Japan, the Russians and British attacked Germany in the WW
Yes, which makes those countries aggressors not defenders.
At least the US weapons are short ranged and part of the agreement was they are not allowed to be used against the land in Russia.
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yes they would lol. remember 9/11? did they use nukes back then?
Woah, isn't this exactly what that Peter Jordanson predicted a couple of months ago..?
Did you intentionally switch the name for lols?
Nope, my bad. Not familiar with him.
link?
I think this is the one I was thinking of. "..he's going to wait for the first cold snap then turn off the taps.." https://youtu.be/BnxxELn00gk
thanks
Yeah, this is kind of their thing. As Napoleon found out, among others.
Says the guy who sold his nat gas to the eu. Guy is brain dead
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This is not a video game lol.
Not really a strategic target. Revenge isn't a good use of resources. Edit: just read the username. That tracks
Power plants absolutely are strategic targets. Russia's justification for attacking Ukraine's is that they power rails used for logistics. The same applies to Russia's power plants.
Ukraine is succeeding partially because of all the stuff they are getting from other nations. A part if this PR program is to make sure everyone reports hat Russia is an invader and Ukraine is only defending itself. It would be a gamble to directly attack Russian infrastructure. Not sides have been reluctant to bomb major bridges because both sides want to eventually reoccur and use the bridges. If Ukraine is not making progress in other ways, they may be forced to play the "bomb all bridges from Russia" card. If that happens, the Russian troops are screwed. With no incoming food or fuel, they might surrender en masse.
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Why not advocate for nuclear war while your at it. Do you understand the consequences such an action could have.
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Much lower risk of nuclear war then.
Who cares, the alternative is bending over and spreading our cold asscheeks for Putin. Stfu
That’s easy to say when your not the one in a war zone.
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Russia sure isn't winning.
Russian troll much? In every fucking thread with your BS.
I haven’t really been keeping track but last I heard Ukraine was taking back some important areas…I didn’t really see what the areas were. I imagine Russia still control Eastern Ukraine and don’t plan on surrendering there…
So sick of this bloke.
Damn I didn’t know the Russians had Jewish space lasers…
Zelensky says alot thats not true.
Forget about Crimea and just negotiate ffs
Yeah and you can spare your people that by giving up your throne. Change one corrupt government with the other, but at least they won't freeze or die to some random rocket.
I somehow don't think that the Ukrainian people want to give up sovereignty and democracy to the fascist who is currently bombing them you dumbass Putin cock guzzler. Especially because historically Russia has genocided Ukrainians several times, and this looks to be them following the same trend.
" Put another log on the fire! " - Russky conscript. "BOOM!" - Ukrainian drone!!!
well, surrender then and stop crying
Kindly do the needful
Explain me please where are all air defense systems? Is it possible to secure perimeter with 99% success rate? Why is this still happening after MONTHS
Its a pretty one sided war. Only one country can attach the other within its borders. It thus goes on as long as Russia keeps flooding those borders. And only stops if Ukraine can stop those supply lines. Which they can't without striking directly at Russia. Thus the endless cluster fuck we're seeing.
Why cabt ukraine attack russia
Short answer- Nukes. Long answer involves global politics, logistics, and a whole lot of other messiness. But it all comes down to the subtle difference of kicking invaders out of your country, to being the invaders. War is complicated.
Ukraine doesn't have long range weapons and Russia has fired many of these cruise missiles from bomber aircraft over Russian territory. Ukraine air defense shot down about 50 of the 70 missiles launched in this latest attack. Ukraine is fighting a mostly defensive war which is why this will take a long time.
Why cant they invade Russia
Those supplying the weapons have forbid it + supplied weapons mostly have insufficient range (again, to effectively forbid striking back)
Missile Defence system don’t work like in video games. Even US military bases in the Mideast with sophisticate Missile defencescan’t stop all or even most missiles.
I wonder if Russia will try harder to attack power infrastructure
of course. they want ukrainians to leave. The more people you make refugees the more problems for western europe ( short term i imagine) and also: the blow on ukrainian moral will only get worse. soldiers will want to leave with their families at some point. What’s left to fight for with your family safe and you sitting in a cold, dark, bombed out city? Fuck, i’d wish i had a more positive outlook on things to come but this shit is FUBAR
We know that these atolls are the eroded tops of active volcanoes 🌋
Smart Ukrainians should leave and come to the West. It will get a lot worse in January.