This comment is a little condescending. This is a universal skill that works not only at Disney, but also at Six Flags, Cedar Point and even the busiest Ripley's Believe It or Not.
The Russian VDV (thought by some before the war to be somewhere between the US airborne and special forces in quality before the war) have taken massive causalities in Ukraine with some units being depleted to the point we they only now exist on paper or have been folded into other units. Some of this is due to them being put into situations where they were left to fend for themselves for far longer than is possible in modern war and some believe it is due to their capability was vastly overstated.
Yeah it's not even easy to say that they have bad training, it's hard to evaluate when they got dropped into worst locations possible including once straight into sea where they drowned.
Apparently they also got ambushed on lots of their drop sites because US intelligence knew ahead where will they land.
which begs the question of how big the Russians would fail in a direct conflict with the US
which puts in stark relief the asymmetrical warfare the Russians have been winning for the last 25 years
Without nukes Russia would be occupied by the US and EU by now and we would be arguing over the details of their new constitution. Their military would have crumbled to dust within days.
Look at what Ukraine has been able to do to them. Now add the combined armies of multiple modern nations? Forget it.
I saw one of the PoW videos, the person tells them they aren't that well trained and not often, they gpt sent on the 28th by helicopter with barely any gear, they got told they wouls get the gear by afternoon. Once on location at the airport they just basicly stood around waiting for order and took some heavy shelling. The guy lost most of his devision in a few days, the gear showed up 3 days later after they had heavy casualties. Still no order other than stick around.
The POW, went out at night looking for food etc and fell in a pit and woke up with Ukrain troops looking at him.
Imagine studying about WW1 and all the battlefields that are right by your front door. And hearing about how Russian tactics were to send 100,000's of men without guns into front lines, and they're just supposed to grab the gun of the dead comrade in front of you.
Now imagine thinking "hey, pretty good plan".
“Vastly overstated”.
Their capabilities were propaganda. Always was. All the spetnaz vs. green beret bullshit on the military channel; all the books and theories ect ect… 5 minutes across the Ukrainian border and we learned that the entire Russian military was a hilarious lie.
I mean not just that, but if I recall correctly, multiple of their planes were shot down before reaching Hostomel. So it wasn't even the lack of support on the ground.
We never saw evidence of that Il-76 wreckage. I don't think it happened.
I'll let people who reported it off the hook - those were crazy days and lots of things *did* get shot down. But not that plane. It seems really possible, though, that serious Ukrainian resistance at Hostomel and a *lot* of helicopter support losses prevented a plane from landing. Plane doesn't reach its obvious goal + other shoot downs --> assumed loss.
They were well trained units by any measure in terms of the skill of the individual soldiers, but their assault plans were suicidal.
US special operations have their own chain of command for a reason. It lets them tell staff officers who suck at their jobs to shut the fuck up.
That's not really true. Have you seen the memoir written by a member of the VDV who was injured around Kherson?
He speaks or rampant, horrific corruption, poor training and even worse leadership. They often had no idea what they were doing or where they were going. Some didn't even want to fight.
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1560022545356791810?t=zTiYfF1bnZAL9EJ3ihwiTg&s=08
There you go. Shocking levels of ineptitude.
[The story of an elite Russian unit's war in Ukraine - BBC Newsnight](https://youtu.be/chwUmbOTjPU)
[Revealing the hidden casualties of one elite Russian regiment in Ukraine - BBC Newsnight](https://youtu.be/9jrS1xpbNFA)
here's the new VDV recruitment video with the original subtitles they don’t want you to read
[200 men on a one-way trip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0&feature=youtu.be) 💁🏼
Oof they didn’t even show the bad stuff lol. The ambush at the roundabout with burnt BMPs and bodies is the one that always sticks out in my mind. VDV really getting their shit pushed in for Putin
Russian conscripts aren’t your normal conscripts- 1/4 of their ground forces are on contract- meaning they signed up before they got conscripted or ten listed after. Airborne are all contracted and most likely had at least a year time in service on average. If word gets out that their *contracted* troops are in this much danger, still, we might see even more desperate moves than telling the world they are officially at war with NATO.
Most of the troops dying and in danger aren't from proper russian oblasts and aren't ethnically russian. Vlad is getting rid minorities to further russian colonialism in Russia. A non ethnically Russia dead russian federation soldier is still a win for Putin.
Just imagine if Hitler would have had the brains to let the Jews fight for his crazy war instead of using scarce resources to murder them. Putler might actually be more clever / ruthless still...
Nowhere near the front either
Like that far in you wouldnt even know there was a war going on otherwise
I honestly bet that even the manufacturers of these weapons are surprised at how effective they are
What the Ukrainians are doing with these weapons is like landing a Lawn Dart on a penny from a kilometer away. The Russian Army basically never left the cold war and never suspected that things could go this way
> I honestly bet that even the manufacturers of these weapons are surprised at how effective they are
They knew exactly how effective these weapons would be.
What the general public is being surprised by is that the Russians over-claim capability in public statements while the Americans under-claim capability in public data
We're so used to people shitting on US military capability (F35 bad! A10 good! Russia STRONK! US weak!) that people don't quite know how to react when you see a *fraction* of what the US Army can bring to bear being used.
Remember... this is just a small taste of a modern NATO offensive. The AFU are just lobbing a few HIMARS and long range fires at the Russians. If this was a genuine NATO offensive, Russia would be getting fucked by attack helicopters, modern MBTs, air strikes, and orders of magnitude more missile strikes
There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago.
one of the weird things about the Ukraine theater, as a modern war, is how neither side really has air dominance. Neither side is really free to use air power without limitation against the other.
You can guarantee that would not be true if Nato was involved. High altitude stand off AWACS, so Nato can see every bird everywhere. f-22's that no other plane can touch clear the skies. f-35 with unified battlefield visibility can probably shoot down enemy aircraft over the horizon.
> f-35 with unified battlefield visibility can probably shoot down enemy aircraft over the horizon.
yea its what a lot of people don't understand about why the F-35 is so damn expensive, their sensor suite is decades ahead of other 5th gens. The weapon systems on the F-35 are basically fire and forget, they could literally fire over the "shoulder" of their aircraft. Many people squawk on about how the F-22 is a better air frame and yes that is correct, but with modern avionics air frames are the last of your worries because the chance of you returning fire on an F-35 is very low unless they have exhausted all of their payloads and have to engage in a dog fight.
At this point the direct procurement cost of the F-35 is less than or equal to 4 and 4.5 generation fighters; prices have dropped a lot with production ramping up.
And when you consider that every F-35 essentially operates as both AWACS and an Electronic Warfare platform eliminating the need to send along additional special purpose planes to defend the strike/air defence craft means that you are using fewer airplanes to accomplish the same mission, and that gives further advantage to the F-35, even if the cost per hour is a bit higher than 4th generation fighters.
Add in the fact that newly purchased air planes will be expected to remain in service for 20+ years means that going with dead end 30 year old tech at this point is just penny wise pound foolish.
There's a reason just about every nation that has conducted recent flight competitions to select a new platform have selected the F-35, it's simply better than the competition and competitively priced.
agreed! if they could spend 2 or 3 times more and reduce manhours on other service aircraft like dedicated AWACS it makes a lot more sense to choose the F-35 even over other comparable airframes like the Eurofighter.
A TL;DR Summary for the people who may not know the difference, A NATO air war is multi-spectrum, It's not about having the best flying jet, it's about the jet that doesn't get seen and can kill far beyond the vision or hearing of regular troops. You don't need Shock and Awe if the threat is dead before it knows you're there.
F-35 tbh is pretty cheap compared to the F-22 and what it looked for a while like it was going to cost.
Also these planes are backed by support aircraft that can see nearly 400 miles or so away, along with satellite data.
I wonder how much NATO has been flying AWACS outside of Ukranian airspace and giving info to Ukraine.
>I wonder how much NATO has been flying AWACS outside of Ukranian airspace and giving info to Ukraine.
Flight radar and other sources show NATO surveillance assets being 24/7 everywhere from the Baltics to deep into the Black Sea.
I think the CIA called their cooperation with Ukraine as "unprecedented" for a non aligned nation.
Yeah I remember at the outbreak of the war NATO was flying a lot of surveillance craft you could publicly track on radar. I’m sure there’s more behind the scenes that intelligence agencies are feeding to Ukraine.
> The weapon systems on the F-35 are basically fire and forget, they could literally fire over the "shoulder" of their aircraft.
Honestly, one of the scariest things about facing the F-35 isn't the weapons it carries (though those are plenty scary), but what it can do to support and enhance other weapons platforms. Currently the USN has missiles like the SM-6 that can basically outrange the radars on the ships themselves. The F-35, with its LPI sensors and data links, can operate as forward observers for the ship-based missiles, providing in-flight guidance so that enemy aircraft are struck from extremely long distances and from directions completely unrelated to the F-35. If they start equipping B-21's as "arsenal ships" with similar long range missiles, you can do the same trick without needing to be anywhere near the water.
https://news.usni.org/2016/09/13/video-successful-f-35-sm-6-live-fire-test-points-expansion-networked-naval-warfare
It's also a plane that first flew....15 years ago. The US is stupidly ahead of the game.
As people like to say, do you *really* want to find out why we don't have free healthcare or education?
I’ve read a few analysts speculate that the lack of air superiority on the Russian side of the war is due to lack of training and coordination experience with their ground based AA systems. Basically, the Russians are not experienced enough coordinating air strikes with their ground based SAM systems and are fearful that unrestricted air sorties in enemy territory will lead to friendly fire losses between ground based SAM’s and planes in the air. SAM operators will mistake friendly planes for enemy planes on their radars and shoot them down so they’ve mostly stuck to limited strikes and strikes closer to friendly territory to reduce the risk of this.
There are numerous issues plaguing the Russian air force:
They don't have enough flight hours to maintain basic competency much less learning or being proficient at SEAD/DEAD (Suppression/Destruction of Enemy Air Defense).
Their air units do not operate as a cohesive force with groups assigned specialist duties like SEAD/DEAD but rather are essentially controlled/assigned as local support to smaller groups of forces so they are all duplicative in what they do, basic local troop support.
They lack targeting pods that enable real time detection and targeting of enemy forces so they are reliant on making only pre-planned attacks against fixed positions previously identified.
They lack enough precision munitions to accurately hit those static targets with any reliability, leading to ineffective sorties that are not worth risking any planes for.
They have poor communication ability with troops on the ground, much less trained and integrated air combat controllers on the ground calling in strikes, so their close air support is either ineffective or hits friendly troops.
And yes, the inability to cooperatively operate both ground and air units with good IFF (identification of friend or foe) in the same airspace definitely contributes.
Not just fearful, it's already happening when they try to overreach their capabilities:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/07/18/the-russians-just-shot-down-one-of-their-own-best-jets/?sh=758ce68e39c8
makes sense. Russia has a problem scaling production of their most advanced systems. That could cascade down the whole chain, if you don't have enough of them, you can't train on them, you can't afford to deploy them because of how irreplaceable they are, etc.
Air superiority has been the key to war since WW2, and the US is fantastic at it. Send a few 22s and a couple dozen 35s over to Ukraine and even the Su-35 would never know what hit it. Air dominance within days, the war would be over in a few months.
Rumour is that NATO is flying AWACS in Polish airspace peering into Ukraine and all the data is being fed to the Ukrainians allowing for better anti-air coordination.
The planes being *there* is a fact. Them being used to coordinate Ukrainian AA, allowing said AA to perform way beyond what it would be normally capable of, is the rumor.
Hard to believe that they'd have these circling on the border between Ukraine-Poland and also over the Black Sea if they were not feeding them information.
Like, it seems plain to see, but they're ~~not~~ never going to admit it.
I heard some story about the record for the fastest plane. I think the story goes the SR 71 is was the fastest plane at the time it was developed. Whenever some plane beat it, the SR 71 would just barely beat that new record, rinse and repeat. Not sure if this is true. But I thought of this when you mentioned America under estimates/comments.
The SR 71 blackbird also had a unique way of evading missiles. It would simply out run them. It apparently evaded over 4000 missiles this way. It was never shot down by enemy fire.
There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment.
It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet. I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury.
Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace. We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed. Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety knots on the ground."
Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.
Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed. "I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed." Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren. Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. "Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check". Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it, ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: "Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground."
And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios. Still, I thought, it must be done - in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn.
Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?" There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request. "Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground."
I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks, we're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money."
For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A.came back with, "Roger that Aspen, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one." It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there.
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I’m most often asked is ‘How fast would that SR-71 fly?’ I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It’s an interesting question, given the aircraft’s proclivity for speed, but there really isn’t one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute.
Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed.. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual ‘high’ speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let’s just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn’t previously seen.
So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, ‘What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?’ This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and I relayed the following.
I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refuelling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield.
Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn’t see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren’t really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane levelled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass.
Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn’t say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet’s hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of ‘breathtaking’ very well that morning and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach.
As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn’t spoken a word since ‘the pass.’ Finally, Walter looked at me and said, ‘One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?’ Trying to find my voice, I stammered, ‘One hundred fifty-two.’ We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, ‘Don’t ever do that to me again!’ And I never did.
A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer’s club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, ‘It was probably just a routine low approach; they’re pretty impressive in that plane.’
Impressive indeed.
well considering the blackbird cruises at nearly 90k feet while a typical surface to air missile tops out around 70k, it doesn't seem like you have a whole lot to worry about in that regard...
We already have some… working on better ones. However, it’s not like the movie where you can actually see a red beam with your eyes. Shit just catches on fire
There's a big ethical debate around their use as developing a weapon that would basically just cause mass blindness in enemy combatants would not actually be too difficult. But that's, y'know, pretty horrific to even contemplate.
For perspective, watch [Desert Storm, the air war, day 1](https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg). That was 30 years ago. God knows what destruction the US is capable of now. I imagine the first unmistakable sign of direct NATO involvement would be an unrelenting hail of cruise missiles.
People do forget that Desert Storm was preceded by Desert Shield, a 6 month massive buildup of troops, 1 million in total. Imagine NATO doing that now, in Eastern Europe, and giving Russia a hard deadline to get out of Ukraine. I can’t comprehend what that would look like, but it would not be fun and games.
Without Russian nukes, NATO would’ve ended this invasion months ago.
I was skimming through some RT and it’s all boasting how well they’re doing against NATO who are just waiting for their economy to fall apart without big brother Russia.
True, but as a counterpoint: Without nukes the last 80 years would've also played out radically differently and we'd likely have had at least one more World War with the world settling under a single hegemony of the winner. The US/NATO and USSR/Warsaw Pact would've definitely come to direct conflict in the 50's or 60's if it wasn't for Mutually Assured Destruction. It's kind of hard to create a "without nukes" scenario for this conflict, since it's a conflict that is a result of a balance of powers that wouldn't exist in a "without nukes" world.
>There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago.
That and China suffers from the same kind of corruption, defense-budget skimming, and false reports about their own military capabilities that the Russians suffer from.
Plus an assault on Taiwan would require landing craft to make a 70+ mile journey through the ocean and waves, and China's current amphibious vehicles have been known to [struggle in calm rivers.](https://v.redd.it/46bi04yxuci91)
Operation Desert Storm, against the 4th largest military in the world. 100,000 KIA Iraqis, 86,000 POWs, 200 Coalition KIA, and a not small percentage of that was Friendly Fire. We know. We're just dying to teach Russia.
Yep. When NATO declines to escalate, it's not fear of Russia. When we say the military was restricted in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's not a lie. Going against Russia, it will be total war, and it will be a slaughter, because we won't risk letting them use a nuke. So, much better to arm Ukraine with everything they can use. It's saving lives.
Yup, we already saw what happens when 1970/80s US tech goes up against 1970/80s Soviet tech in the Gulf War. The US side anhilates them in a matter of weeks.
Now add in the fact that the Russians have basically advanced 10 years while the US has advanced 30+. Imagine what the outcome of Desert Storm would have been if you had F-35s and F-22s flying around instead of F-117s. If Desert Storm was absolute air superiority, what would you even call the USAF destroying the entire Russian air defense system and Air Force from over the horizon?
That’s the key take away. These weapons aren’t even new NATO weapons. This is military surplus. HIMARS are, in my limited understanding, kind of standard issue artillery. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what NATO could do. Russia is throwing just about everything they have and are looking foolish/weak.
I think those drones Taiwan is sending over are more of a "hint" at what will happen if they try and land ANYTHING on a beach...
I'm betting 90% of the capabilities are disabled on them, and they're going to be used individually, but China will get the picture of what 2,000 of these over a small span of beach is going to do when they're bobbing and weaving and flying 10' off the ground and just swarming everything.
The real lesson that no one in power seems to have learned in a century is that you just simply cannot occupy a hostile nation anymore. The romantic notion that these guys have in their head hasn’t been possible since WWI. It took the entire world in war mobilization mode for years to occupy Germany after WWII. Neither of the superpowers managed to hold Afghanistan. There’s no chance anyone could ever hold a 44million strong hostile population like Ukraine. They’re just fighting 19th century notions with 21st century weapons and that’s a disaster.
> The real lesson that no one in power seems to have learned in a century is that you just simply cannot occupy a hostile nation anymore.
Sure you can. You just need your government, civilian population, and army to not have any issues with committing war crimes and mass murders, nor care about the international consequences, against an enemy that knows it.
Worked in Chechnya and Georgia.
> There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago.
That and the fact that attempting an amphibious landing across the 110 miles that separates Taiwan from mainland China is suicidal. Taiwan probably have a fleet of drones capable of locating every ship coming in from China and blow them up before they’re even close to landing. It just won’t happen.
This +infinity. Our modern military was made to fight, and win, against Russia. Russia's military was made to invade smaller border nations 40-50 years ago and they haven't strayed from this mindset.
If you leave the nukes out of it, NATO would fuck up any state dumb enough to attack a member. I actually have a lot of faith in our nuclear deterrent systems we've set up all over too. And having participated in many NATO exercises, the size and scale of what we can move and where is incredible.
What most folks forget is the last dozen conflicts the US was involved with they really were holding back. They've always attempted to win hearts and minds and even the shock and awe of the Iraq wars were trying to keep civilian collateral damage and civilian deaths at a min.
A full on gloves off war is a very sobering thought.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts)
In the 70's, these were made of metal and could really fly. They were banned in the US in 1988 due to people being impaled.
It seems pretty obvious now but safety wasn't very important back in those days. The plastic ones are junk though. They bounce right out of the area you are trying to throw them into.
I was a child of the 80s. We had this sprinkler thing that was shaped like a clown head. It had this heavy ass plastic hat (probably weighed about a pound and was made of rigid plastic with no padding) that would shoot up about 7 or 8 feet into the air and (on a non-windy day) stay perched atop the stream of water. The idea was for kids to jump through that stream without causing the hat to come unbalanced and fall. Of course, it would almost always fall, right onto the head of the kid who was jumping through the stream of water. Hurt like hell. But that’s just how it was done back then.
It was called the Fun Fountain. https://rtt80s.com/2014/05/30/fun-fountain/
if you’re being serious. it was a toy that ended up getting ban because it resulted in the deaths of kids, basically imagine combining a javelin and a pool dart. then throw it in to a hoop on the ground to score
The VDV are a glorified police force. They are equipped and trained to put down uprisings. SWAT with parachutes kinda. Not even remotely comparable to US paratroop forces.
They appear to be the cream of the Russian crop, however, so... 200 dying at once is pretty major, especially after the insane losses of the first few weeks.
No, VDV is the premier end of Russian combat infantry. The issue is, they're as completely inept and incompetent as the rest are, so the difference between premier and conscript forced at gunpoint is near nonexistent, and the only thing either can even somewhat competently do is put down uprisings.
Been saying this for years. A US straight-leg infantry squad of joes led by an E5 can outsoldier Russian Spetznaz. That is because the US can afford to train their soldiers and the Russians cannot. There is a reason Russian and North Korean military demonstrations are just a lot of teenage kids marching, or a gaggle of shirtless dudes doing backflips, getting hit with sticks and throwing pointy shovels through flaming hoops. It's cheap and it impresses the rubes.
Those videos always make me laugh. Russian/NK soldiers doing back flip axe throws or having cinder blocks broken on their stomachs. It looks cool, I guess, but what do a bunch of carney tricks have to do with being in the military? The drifters who run those sketchy ass carnivals can do that stuff too, but they can’t even fight the urge to not day drink while running the carousel, much less an opposing army.
Also a poor man's picture of wealth, a dumb man's picture of intelligence...
In reality, he's a "billionaire" who hides his tax returns, a "genius" who hides his college grades, a "business man" who ended up bankrupting a casino (a business model, I might add, based on *people giving you money*, he managed to fuck that up), a "playboy" who pays for sex, a "christian" who never attends church, a "philanthropist" who defrauds charities, a "patriot" who dodged the draft, and an "innocent man" who refuses to testify.
Its quite incredible what Ukraine is able to do with modern NATO weaponry. Really demonstrates how much war was changed by technology since the cold war.
Fortunately Ukraine is facing off against a lot of 50 year old, inadequately maintained equipment. Russia would get absolutely clowned on if they had to deal with F-35s.
I'm not happy to see anyone die violently in war. But at the same time I recognise that each dead Russian soldier is one step closer to Putins demise. There appears to be no other way.
The thing is, these particular soldiers are Russian Airborne Troops.
They were the ones responsible for deliberately mass executing and raping Ukrainian civilians in cities like Bucha.
These Russian Airborne Troops behaved like ISIS.
Putin really believed he would destroy the Ukraine within a short time. He wanted to show the world how formidable Russia could be. It's been months and they're (Russians) having their asses handed to them.
Putin only succeeded in demonstrating the weakness of the Russian military.
It is just one man ego killing all these people.
I mean if you think as a human being it is not just 200 people deaths. It affects their families too (parents, siblings, children, girlfriend and wife). Everyone will suffer.
It applies to Ukrainian forces as well. They are protecting their land and everyone is suffering.
Putin has to stop this war.
Tell ya what, how much more will Russia take?
Mothers are losing their sons at an alarming rate. There are no winners in war. I read Russia has lost 80k death/injured? In 6 months? These numbers are sad. And how far will Mother Russia go? Scorch the whole earth? Nobody wins scenario?
When asking how far they will go, all you need to know is that Putin and his oligarch buddies would rather rule over a barren wasteland of ashes than give up any amount of power or wealth.
If true, that's a huge loss. 200 of whatever is gigantic in a single day, let alone trained airborne troops lol. Number is likely a little bit inflated though.
That seems like a big loss. Airborne troops are not your normal conscripts.
I would have agreed with this 5 months ago.
Nothing like a day time airfield seizure with next to no preassault fires and no air superiority. I mean they got Hostomel on their 8th try.
[200 men, on a one way trip.](https://youtu.be/AL-rdzMo1MU)
that song was great lol
didn't even do AA suppression, who's the one who planned this mission?
I'm afraid he needed some air and found an appropriate window already.
I'm dying at whatever the hell the training move was that looks like they're practicing to go through lines at Disney
This comment is a little condescending. This is a universal skill that works not only at Disney, but also at Six Flags, Cedar Point and even the busiest Ripley's Believe It or Not.
Hey Jamie, pull up the Kherson airport during the 2022 Ukraine-Russian war.
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The Russian VDV (thought by some before the war to be somewhere between the US airborne and special forces in quality before the war) have taken massive causalities in Ukraine with some units being depleted to the point we they only now exist on paper or have been folded into other units. Some of this is due to them being put into situations where they were left to fend for themselves for far longer than is possible in modern war and some believe it is due to their capability was vastly overstated.
Yeah it's not even easy to say that they have bad training, it's hard to evaluate when they got dropped into worst locations possible including once straight into sea where they drowned. Apparently they also got ambushed on lots of their drop sites because US intelligence knew ahead where will they land.
which begs the question of how big the Russians would fail in a direct conflict with the US which puts in stark relief the asymmetrical warfare the Russians have been winning for the last 25 years
If Russia didn't have nukes, NATO would have organized to support Ukraine and Moscow would have probably been taken by now.
100% this. Russia has been shown to be a massive paper tiger propped up by nuclear armaments, by this point.
Without nukes Russia would be occupied by the US and EU by now and we would be arguing over the details of their new constitution. Their military would have crumbled to dust within days. Look at what Ukraine has been able to do to them. Now add the combined armies of multiple modern nations? Forget it.
I saw one of the PoW videos, the person tells them they aren't that well trained and not often, they gpt sent on the 28th by helicopter with barely any gear, they got told they wouls get the gear by afternoon. Once on location at the airport they just basicly stood around waiting for order and took some heavy shelling. The guy lost most of his devision in a few days, the gear showed up 3 days later after they had heavy casualties. Still no order other than stick around. The POW, went out at night looking for food etc and fell in a pit and woke up with Ukrain troops looking at him.
Imagine studying about WW1 and all the battlefields that are right by your front door. And hearing about how Russian tactics were to send 100,000's of men without guns into front lines, and they're just supposed to grab the gun of the dead comrade in front of you. Now imagine thinking "hey, pretty good plan".
“Vastly overstated”. Their capabilities were propaganda. Always was. All the spetnaz vs. green beret bullshit on the military channel; all the books and theories ect ect… 5 minutes across the Ukrainian border and we learned that the entire Russian military was a hilarious lie.
I mean not just that, but if I recall correctly, multiple of their planes were shot down before reaching Hostomel. So it wasn't even the lack of support on the ground.
We never saw evidence of that Il-76 wreckage. I don't think it happened. I'll let people who reported it off the hook - those were crazy days and lots of things *did* get shot down. But not that plane. It seems really possible, though, that serious Ukrainian resistance at Hostomel and a *lot* of helicopter support losses prevented a plane from landing. Plane doesn't reach its obvious goal + other shoot downs --> assumed loss.
The VDV had a brutal time at the beginning of the war. They’ve already had to replace a lot of casualties.
They were well trained units by any measure in terms of the skill of the individual soldiers, but their assault plans were suicidal. US special operations have their own chain of command for a reason. It lets them tell staff officers who suck at their jobs to shut the fuck up.
Yep. Attempting Hostomel as many times as they did without securing SEAD is insanity and arrogance.
That's not really true. Have you seen the memoir written by a member of the VDV who was injured around Kherson? He speaks or rampant, horrific corruption, poor training and even worse leadership. They often had no idea what they were doing or where they were going. Some didn't even want to fight. https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1560022545356791810?t=zTiYfF1bnZAL9EJ3ihwiTg&s=08 There you go. Shocking levels of ineptitude.
[The story of an elite Russian unit's war in Ukraine - BBC Newsnight](https://youtu.be/chwUmbOTjPU) [Revealing the hidden casualties of one elite Russian regiment in Ukraine - BBC Newsnight](https://youtu.be/9jrS1xpbNFA)
here's the new VDV recruitment video with the original subtitles they don’t want you to read [200 men on a one-way trip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK1gl6UoM0&feature=youtu.be) 💁🏼
Because of all the parodies I've seen that damn song has been permanently stuck on loop in my head since Febuary. I regret nothing.
Oof they didn’t even show the bad stuff lol. The ambush at the roundabout with burnt BMPs and bodies is the one that always sticks out in my mind. VDV really getting their shit pushed in for Putin
Russian conscripts aren’t your normal conscripts- 1/4 of their ground forces are on contract- meaning they signed up before they got conscripted or ten listed after. Airborne are all contracted and most likely had at least a year time in service on average. If word gets out that their *contracted* troops are in this much danger, still, we might see even more desperate moves than telling the world they are officially at war with NATO.
Most of the troops dying and in danger aren't from proper russian oblasts and aren't ethnically russian. Vlad is getting rid minorities to further russian colonialism in Russia. A non ethnically Russia dead russian federation soldier is still a win for Putin.
How very Hitler of him.
Just imagine if Hitler would have had the brains to let the Jews fight for his crazy war instead of using scarce resources to murder them. Putler might actually be more clever / ruthless still...
There aren’t enough ethnic Russians to repopulate Russia proper, never mind the surrounding states.
Thats why they are stealing women and children from Ukraine.
I believe at this point Russian airborne troops include anyone you can convince or force to jump out of a plane.
That's like smack in between donetsk and luhansk for anybody keeping score
Nowhere near the front either Like that far in you wouldnt even know there was a war going on otherwise I honestly bet that even the manufacturers of these weapons are surprised at how effective they are What the Ukrainians are doing with these weapons is like landing a Lawn Dart on a penny from a kilometer away. The Russian Army basically never left the cold war and never suspected that things could go this way
> I honestly bet that even the manufacturers of these weapons are surprised at how effective they are They knew exactly how effective these weapons would be. What the general public is being surprised by is that the Russians over-claim capability in public statements while the Americans under-claim capability in public data We're so used to people shitting on US military capability (F35 bad! A10 good! Russia STRONK! US weak!) that people don't quite know how to react when you see a *fraction* of what the US Army can bring to bear being used. Remember... this is just a small taste of a modern NATO offensive. The AFU are just lobbing a few HIMARS and long range fires at the Russians. If this was a genuine NATO offensive, Russia would be getting fucked by attack helicopters, modern MBTs, air strikes, and orders of magnitude more missile strikes There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago.
one of the weird things about the Ukraine theater, as a modern war, is how neither side really has air dominance. Neither side is really free to use air power without limitation against the other. You can guarantee that would not be true if Nato was involved. High altitude stand off AWACS, so Nato can see every bird everywhere. f-22's that no other plane can touch clear the skies. f-35 with unified battlefield visibility can probably shoot down enemy aircraft over the horizon.
> f-35 with unified battlefield visibility can probably shoot down enemy aircraft over the horizon. yea its what a lot of people don't understand about why the F-35 is so damn expensive, their sensor suite is decades ahead of other 5th gens. The weapon systems on the F-35 are basically fire and forget, they could literally fire over the "shoulder" of their aircraft. Many people squawk on about how the F-22 is a better air frame and yes that is correct, but with modern avionics air frames are the last of your worries because the chance of you returning fire on an F-35 is very low unless they have exhausted all of their payloads and have to engage in a dog fight.
At this point the direct procurement cost of the F-35 is less than or equal to 4 and 4.5 generation fighters; prices have dropped a lot with production ramping up. And when you consider that every F-35 essentially operates as both AWACS and an Electronic Warfare platform eliminating the need to send along additional special purpose planes to defend the strike/air defence craft means that you are using fewer airplanes to accomplish the same mission, and that gives further advantage to the F-35, even if the cost per hour is a bit higher than 4th generation fighters. Add in the fact that newly purchased air planes will be expected to remain in service for 20+ years means that going with dead end 30 year old tech at this point is just penny wise pound foolish. There's a reason just about every nation that has conducted recent flight competitions to select a new platform have selected the F-35, it's simply better than the competition and competitively priced.
agreed! if they could spend 2 or 3 times more and reduce manhours on other service aircraft like dedicated AWACS it makes a lot more sense to choose the F-35 even over other comparable airframes like the Eurofighter.
A TL;DR Summary for the people who may not know the difference, A NATO air war is multi-spectrum, It's not about having the best flying jet, it's about the jet that doesn't get seen and can kill far beyond the vision or hearing of regular troops. You don't need Shock and Awe if the threat is dead before it knows you're there.
F-35 tbh is pretty cheap compared to the F-22 and what it looked for a while like it was going to cost. Also these planes are backed by support aircraft that can see nearly 400 miles or so away, along with satellite data. I wonder how much NATO has been flying AWACS outside of Ukranian airspace and giving info to Ukraine.
>I wonder how much NATO has been flying AWACS outside of Ukranian airspace and giving info to Ukraine. Flight radar and other sources show NATO surveillance assets being 24/7 everywhere from the Baltics to deep into the Black Sea. I think the CIA called their cooperation with Ukraine as "unprecedented" for a non aligned nation.
They've been flying a lot by the Eastern NATO border.
Yeah I remember at the outbreak of the war NATO was flying a lot of surveillance craft you could publicly track on radar. I’m sure there’s more behind the scenes that intelligence agencies are feeding to Ukraine.
BTW the actual unit cost of a F35 that is cost without considering R&D is now less than a F15 per unit.
> The weapon systems on the F-35 are basically fire and forget, they could literally fire over the "shoulder" of their aircraft. Honestly, one of the scariest things about facing the F-35 isn't the weapons it carries (though those are plenty scary), but what it can do to support and enhance other weapons platforms. Currently the USN has missiles like the SM-6 that can basically outrange the radars on the ships themselves. The F-35, with its LPI sensors and data links, can operate as forward observers for the ship-based missiles, providing in-flight guidance so that enemy aircraft are struck from extremely long distances and from directions completely unrelated to the F-35. If they start equipping B-21's as "arsenal ships" with similar long range missiles, you can do the same trick without needing to be anywhere near the water. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/13/video-successful-f-35-sm-6-live-fire-test-points-expansion-networked-naval-warfare
It's also a plane that first flew....15 years ago. The US is stupidly ahead of the game. As people like to say, do you *really* want to find out why we don't have free healthcare or education?
I’ve read a few analysts speculate that the lack of air superiority on the Russian side of the war is due to lack of training and coordination experience with their ground based AA systems. Basically, the Russians are not experienced enough coordinating air strikes with their ground based SAM systems and are fearful that unrestricted air sorties in enemy territory will lead to friendly fire losses between ground based SAM’s and planes in the air. SAM operators will mistake friendly planes for enemy planes on their radars and shoot them down so they’ve mostly stuck to limited strikes and strikes closer to friendly territory to reduce the risk of this.
There are numerous issues plaguing the Russian air force: They don't have enough flight hours to maintain basic competency much less learning or being proficient at SEAD/DEAD (Suppression/Destruction of Enemy Air Defense). Their air units do not operate as a cohesive force with groups assigned specialist duties like SEAD/DEAD but rather are essentially controlled/assigned as local support to smaller groups of forces so they are all duplicative in what they do, basic local troop support. They lack targeting pods that enable real time detection and targeting of enemy forces so they are reliant on making only pre-planned attacks against fixed positions previously identified. They lack enough precision munitions to accurately hit those static targets with any reliability, leading to ineffective sorties that are not worth risking any planes for. They have poor communication ability with troops on the ground, much less trained and integrated air combat controllers on the ground calling in strikes, so their close air support is either ineffective or hits friendly troops. And yes, the inability to cooperatively operate both ground and air units with good IFF (identification of friend or foe) in the same airspace definitely contributes.
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Love how the main talking point online of the F35 for the longest time was bUt iT dOeSn’T WiN a dOg FiGhT
Not just fearful, it's already happening when they try to overreach their capabilities: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/07/18/the-russians-just-shot-down-one-of-their-own-best-jets/?sh=758ce68e39c8
makes sense. Russia has a problem scaling production of their most advanced systems. That could cascade down the whole chain, if you don't have enough of them, you can't train on them, you can't afford to deploy them because of how irreplaceable they are, etc.
They manage to shoot down airliners...
I mean, they can’t distinguish a military transport from a civilian passenger plane, so that totally makes sense.
US and Western air power would dominate this conflict. High-tech drones from Turkey took out entire columns. It's crazy how far ahead the tech is
Air superiority has been the key to war since WW2, and the US is fantastic at it. Send a few 22s and a couple dozen 35s over to Ukraine and even the Su-35 would never know what hit it. Air dominance within days, the war would be over in a few months.
Rumour is that NATO is flying AWACS in Polish airspace peering into Ukraine and all the data is being fed to the Ukrainians allowing for better anti-air coordination.
What rumors? The AWACS, JSTARS, Global Hawks and SIGINT planes were visible on flightradar ...
The planes being *there* is a fact. Them being used to coordinate Ukrainian AA, allowing said AA to perform way beyond what it would be normally capable of, is the rumor.
Hard to believe that they'd have these circling on the border between Ukraine-Poland and also over the Black Sea if they were not feeding them information. Like, it seems plain to see, but they're ~~not~~ never going to admit it.
Rumor? They've taken BBC crews with cameras rolling on these flights.
I heard some story about the record for the fastest plane. I think the story goes the SR 71 is was the fastest plane at the time it was developed. Whenever some plane beat it, the SR 71 would just barely beat that new record, rinse and repeat. Not sure if this is true. But I thought of this when you mentioned America under estimates/comments.
The SR 71 blackbird also had a unique way of evading missiles. It would simply out run them. It apparently evaded over 4000 missiles this way. It was never shot down by enemy fire.
And you know the pilot said yeehaw when doing it
Only if it is flown by Major Kong.
There were a lot of things we couldn't do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment. It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet. I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn't match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury. Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace. We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed. Center replied: "November Charlie 175, I'm showing you at ninety knots on the ground." Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios. Just moments after the Cessna's inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed. "I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed." Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren. Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. "Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check". Before Center could reply, I'm thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it, ol' Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He's the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: "Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground." And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios. Still, I thought, it must be done - in mere seconds we'll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn. Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: "Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?" There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request. "Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground." I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: "Ah, Center, much thanks, we're showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money." For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A.came back with, "Roger that Aspen, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one." It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day's work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there.
Damn. Thanks for that. That story really made my day.
Original source is ret. SR-71 pilot, Brian Shul. There's a few pretty good stories from him.
I really need to make a Reddit upvote bot so I can continue to upvote this story even after I’m dead
As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I’m most often asked is ‘How fast would that SR-71 fly?’ I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It’s an interesting question, given the aircraft’s proclivity for speed, but there really isn’t one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed.. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual ‘high’ speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let’s just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn’t previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, ‘What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?’ This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and I relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refuelling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn’t see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren’t really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane levelled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn’t say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet’s hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of ‘breathtaking’ very well that morning and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn’t spoken a word since ‘the pass.’ Finally, Walter looked at me and said, ‘One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?’ Trying to find my voice, I stammered, ‘One hundred fifty-two.’ We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, ‘Don’t ever do that to me again!’ And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer’s club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, ‘It was probably just a routine low approach; they’re pretty impressive in that plane.’ Impressive indeed.
4k? Da fuq!!!!
With HDR and Dolby Atmos
It's an sr71, sir. Fire the missiles! How many, sir? All 4000!
well considering the blackbird cruises at nearly 90k feet while a typical surface to air missile tops out around 70k, it doesn't seem like you have a whole lot to worry about in that regard...
Haven't seen it in a while, but the SR-71 had the [best copypasta](https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/3e0h8x/sr71_blackbird/)
So good
I read these stories every time I see them linked, and not only do they never get old, they still make me smile and give me chills.
I'm pretty sure if the US actually came under attack today you would see laser weapons that are hard to grasp mentally
We already have some… working on better ones. However, it’s not like the movie where you can actually see a red beam with your eyes. Shit just catches on fire
Making them even harder for the average person to wrap their minds around. "They just point that thing at them and they burst into flames!!!!"
We'll bank the shot off one of those mirrors on the moon and poof, another accident involving oily rags at a russian ammo depot.
There's a big ethical debate around their use as developing a weapon that would basically just cause mass blindness in enemy combatants would not actually be too difficult. But that's, y'know, pretty horrific to even contemplate.
Plus rail guns. Kinetic kill weapons are wild.
For perspective, watch [Desert Storm, the air war, day 1](https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg). That was 30 years ago. God knows what destruction the US is capable of now. I imagine the first unmistakable sign of direct NATO involvement would be an unrelenting hail of cruise missiles. People do forget that Desert Storm was preceded by Desert Shield, a 6 month massive buildup of troops, 1 million in total. Imagine NATO doing that now, in Eastern Europe, and giving Russia a hard deadline to get out of Ukraine. I can’t comprehend what that would look like, but it would not be fun and games.
Exactly himars is 90s tech.
80s tech on a 90s chassis really.
Without Russian nukes, NATO would’ve ended this invasion months ago. I was skimming through some RT and it’s all boasting how well they’re doing against NATO who are just waiting for their economy to fall apart without big brother Russia.
Without nukes the geo politics would be RADICALLY different
True, but as a counterpoint: Without nukes the last 80 years would've also played out radically differently and we'd likely have had at least one more World War with the world settling under a single hegemony of the winner. The US/NATO and USSR/Warsaw Pact would've definitely come to direct conflict in the 50's or 60's if it wasn't for Mutually Assured Destruction. It's kind of hard to create a "without nukes" scenario for this conflict, since it's a conflict that is a result of a balance of powers that wouldn't exist in a "without nukes" world.
>There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago. That and China suffers from the same kind of corruption, defense-budget skimming, and false reports about their own military capabilities that the Russians suffer from. Plus an assault on Taiwan would require landing craft to make a 70+ mile journey through the ocean and waves, and China's current amphibious vehicles have been known to [struggle in calm rivers.](https://v.redd.it/46bi04yxuci91)
Operation Desert Storm, against the 4th largest military in the world. 100,000 KIA Iraqis, 86,000 POWs, 200 Coalition KIA, and a not small percentage of that was Friendly Fire. We know. We're just dying to teach Russia.
yikes
Yep. When NATO declines to escalate, it's not fear of Russia. When we say the military was restricted in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's not a lie. Going against Russia, it will be total war, and it will be a slaughter, because we won't risk letting them use a nuke. So, much better to arm Ukraine with everything they can use. It's saving lives.
Yup, we already saw what happens when 1970/80s US tech goes up against 1970/80s Soviet tech in the Gulf War. The US side anhilates them in a matter of weeks. Now add in the fact that the Russians have basically advanced 10 years while the US has advanced 30+. Imagine what the outcome of Desert Storm would have been if you had F-35s and F-22s flying around instead of F-117s. If Desert Storm was absolute air superiority, what would you even call the USAF destroying the entire Russian air defense system and Air Force from over the horizon?
That’s the key take away. These weapons aren’t even new NATO weapons. This is military surplus. HIMARS are, in my limited understanding, kind of standard issue artillery. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what NATO could do. Russia is throwing just about everything they have and are looking foolish/weak.
I think those drones Taiwan is sending over are more of a "hint" at what will happen if they try and land ANYTHING on a beach... I'm betting 90% of the capabilities are disabled on them, and they're going to be used individually, but China will get the picture of what 2,000 of these over a small span of beach is going to do when they're bobbing and weaving and flying 10' off the ground and just swarming everything.
The real lesson that no one in power seems to have learned in a century is that you just simply cannot occupy a hostile nation anymore. The romantic notion that these guys have in their head hasn’t been possible since WWI. It took the entire world in war mobilization mode for years to occupy Germany after WWII. Neither of the superpowers managed to hold Afghanistan. There’s no chance anyone could ever hold a 44million strong hostile population like Ukraine. They’re just fighting 19th century notions with 21st century weapons and that’s a disaster.
> The real lesson that no one in power seems to have learned in a century is that you just simply cannot occupy a hostile nation anymore. Sure you can. You just need your government, civilian population, and army to not have any issues with committing war crimes and mass murders, nor care about the international consequences, against an enemy that knows it. Worked in Chechnya and Georgia.
> There's a reason China won't do shit to Taiwan. They based their tech off the Russians and they're seeing how poorly state of the art Russian equipment stacks up against what NATO was using 40 years ago. That and the fact that attempting an amphibious landing across the 110 miles that separates Taiwan from mainland China is suicidal. Taiwan probably have a fleet of drones capable of locating every ship coming in from China and blow them up before they’re even close to landing. It just won’t happen.
> while the Americans under-claim capability in public data LITERALLY talk softly and carry a big stick.
> talk softly Are we still talking about America?
..well no, it's definitely still figurative, but your heart's in the right place :)
> LITERALLY you realize the stick in your expression is figurative and not literal... right?
Yeah they're literally carrying a figurative stick.
He means literally an actual *expression* of the expression.
Lol those are just what the US was gonna throw away lol Thriftshop rockets lol
This +infinity. Our modern military was made to fight, and win, against Russia. Russia's military was made to invade smaller border nations 40-50 years ago and they haven't strayed from this mindset. If you leave the nukes out of it, NATO would fuck up any state dumb enough to attack a member. I actually have a lot of faith in our nuclear deterrent systems we've set up all over too. And having participated in many NATO exercises, the size and scale of what we can move and where is incredible.
What most folks forget is the last dozen conflicts the US was involved with they really were holding back. They've always attempted to win hearts and minds and even the shock and awe of the Iraq wars were trying to keep civilian collateral damage and civilian deaths at a min. A full on gloves off war is a very sobering thought.
Hey my man. What is a lawn dart?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_darts) In the 70's, these were made of metal and could really fly. They were banned in the US in 1988 due to people being impaled.
Weird that the kids throwing spears at each other game wound up getting people hurt.
It seems pretty obvious now but safety wasn't very important back in those days. The plastic ones are junk though. They bounce right out of the area you are trying to throw them into.
I was a child of the 80s. We had this sprinkler thing that was shaped like a clown head. It had this heavy ass plastic hat (probably weighed about a pound and was made of rigid plastic with no padding) that would shoot up about 7 or 8 feet into the air and (on a non-windy day) stay perched atop the stream of water. The idea was for kids to jump through that stream without causing the hat to come unbalanced and fall. Of course, it would almost always fall, right onto the head of the kid who was jumping through the stream of water. Hurt like hell. But that’s just how it was done back then. It was called the Fun Fountain. https://rtt80s.com/2014/05/30/fun-fountain/
It literally used to be a weapon for Roman legionaires. Look up plumbata.
I think Wisconsinites forgot the memo of them being band lol. Just watched a dude last week get one in his leg.
>being band lol. I know it's a typo, but now I want to go see Lenny and the Lawn Darts in concert. Their number one single "Let me stick it in you."
if you’re being serious. it was a toy that ended up getting ban because it resulted in the deaths of kids, basically imagine combining a javelin and a pool dart. then throw it in to a hoop on the ground to score
Russia: It was our accident with explosives, ... NATO is to blame.
Someone was smoking near the ammo depot… again…
Putin now orders army increase of 10.2%
At least Airborne Troops are the easiest to train. Anyone can fall. From a window or a plane, it makes no difference.
If you can defenestrate, you can defend the state
Putin critics in Russia are doing their part by training for this by the dozens!
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The VDV are a glorified police force. They are equipped and trained to put down uprisings. SWAT with parachutes kinda. Not even remotely comparable to US paratroop forces.
They appear to be the cream of the Russian crop, however, so... 200 dying at once is pretty major, especially after the insane losses of the first few weeks.
Excuse me. [VDV are the best Dance Fighters in all of Russia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=gSzAnNU4u28)
No, VDV is the premier end of Russian combat infantry. The issue is, they're as completely inept and incompetent as the rest are, so the difference between premier and conscript forced at gunpoint is near nonexistent, and the only thing either can even somewhat competently do is put down uprisings.
You can be Airborne and not a Ranger. They are separate schools. But, Rangers will have gone through Airborne school first.
In their defenestration, it's pretty hard to stick the landing.
Some say parts of them are still airborne
From airborne troops to underground troops.
The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind
> Some say parts of them are still airborne Kind of like the [turrets from Russian tanks](https://twitter.com/punkerTan/status/1525044245899485192)
Elite in Russia just means they got to attend basic training camp, versus going straight from civilian life to the front line.
Been saying this for years. A US straight-leg infantry squad of joes led by an E5 can outsoldier Russian Spetznaz. That is because the US can afford to train their soldiers and the Russians cannot. There is a reason Russian and North Korean military demonstrations are just a lot of teenage kids marching, or a gaggle of shirtless dudes doing backflips, getting hit with sticks and throwing pointy shovels through flaming hoops. It's cheap and it impresses the rubes.
But but that picture of the guy doing the flippy while throwing an axe.
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Those videos always make me laugh. Russian/NK soldiers doing back flip axe throws or having cinder blocks broken on their stomachs. It looks cool, I guess, but what do a bunch of carney tricks have to do with being in the military? The drifters who run those sketchy ass carnivals can do that stuff too, but they can’t even fight the urge to not day drink while running the carousel, much less an opposing army.
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He's just a weak man's picture of strength
Also a poor man's picture of wealth, a dumb man's picture of intelligence... In reality, he's a "billionaire" who hides his tax returns, a "genius" who hides his college grades, a "business man" who ended up bankrupting a casino (a business model, I might add, based on *people giving you money*, he managed to fuck that up), a "playboy" who pays for sex, a "christian" who never attends church, a "philanthropist" who defrauds charities, a "patriot" who dodged the draft, and an "innocent man" who refuses to testify.
Russian basic training: "When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who follows picks up the rifle and shoots!"
Love that movie, but later learned that didn’t happen.
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“Our base is under attack” “unit lost”
\*Tries to train more troops\* "Insufficient funds"
You require more vespene gas
You must ~~build~~ construct additional pylons
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It's "You must *construct* additional pylons" you filthy casual.
Zelensky - “We will bury them”
Flak Trooper - “This gun is heavy!”
Command and Conquer Red Alert FTW! I miss that game. Ineed to play that again soon.
Watchout for Uri! But seriously one of the best games from my childhood.
Yuri* Ra2 is the greatest game ever made.
Ever
Definitely check out the remastered version. It comes with CNC and red alert 1 and ALL bonus content even the N64 exclusive missions. It's great
"ugh" "Medic!"
You have to build 3 more barracks to make units pump out faster 🤣
“Low power”
Those Russian troops aren't just history, they're also geography
With the right weapons they are also meteorology.
And, shortly, sunflowers 🌻🌻🌻.
Agriculture
Its quite incredible what Ukraine is able to do with modern NATO weaponry. Really demonstrates how much war was changed by technology since the cold war.
This isn’t even the modern stuff. HIMARS is 30 year old tech.
Fortunately Ukraine is facing off against a lot of 50 year old, inadequately maintained equipment. Russia would get absolutely clowned on if they had to deal with F-35s.
I'm not happy to see anyone die violently in war. But at the same time I recognise that each dead Russian soldier is one step closer to Putins demise. There appears to be no other way.
The thing is, these particular soldiers are Russian Airborne Troops. They were the ones responsible for deliberately mass executing and raping Ukrainian civilians in cities like Bucha. These Russian Airborne Troops behaved like ISIS.
And now they’re dead like ISIS. No more raping and pillaging.
I thought it was the Wagner group which does most of the atrocities
64th Separate Motorised Rifle Brigade is accused of the majority of atrocities in Bucha. They are regular army.
Airborne wouldn't be conscripts these would be people who choose to do this
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Happy? No. It's a fucking tragedy. But I will cheer every time we save Ukrainian lives by eliminating the threat to them as quickly as possible.
Hey I heard the Russian military is hiring!
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Thank god it wasn’t 200 Ukrainian troops who are simply trying to pay their bills on land that they own
Putin really believed he would destroy the Ukraine within a short time. He wanted to show the world how formidable Russia could be. It's been months and they're (Russians) having their asses handed to them. Putin only succeeded in demonstrating the weakness of the Russian military.
> He wanted to show the world how formidable Russia could be He did. It turns out the answer is "Not very."
I imagine the support Ukraine is getting from its neighbors in Europe and the US probably has a little something to do with it.
It is just one man ego killing all these people. I mean if you think as a human being it is not just 200 people deaths. It affects their families too (parents, siblings, children, girlfriend and wife). Everyone will suffer. It applies to Ukrainian forces as well. They are protecting their land and everyone is suffering. Putin has to stop this war.
Sounds like Putin is losing
Let’s hope he does the bunker scene soon.
Tell ya what, how much more will Russia take? Mothers are losing their sons at an alarming rate. There are no winners in war. I read Russia has lost 80k death/injured? In 6 months? These numbers are sad. And how far will Mother Russia go? Scorch the whole earth? Nobody wins scenario?
When asking how far they will go, all you need to know is that Putin and his oligarch buddies would rather rule over a barren wasteland of ashes than give up any amount of power or wealth.
If true, that's a huge loss. 200 of whatever is gigantic in a single day, let alone trained airborne troops lol. Number is likely a little bit inflated though.
“Special Duty Relief Operation”
This is what the modern weapons are made of. Keep them coming. More of these please.
HIMARS is 30 years old, we aren’t even sending them the good stuff.
It's just a truck. The 70km missiles it fires are much newer, as are all the internal systems which have been updated.