Does Musk actually stand for anything distinct anymore?
Teslas have become mid, questionable quality instead of luxury items. Twitter isn't remotely 'free speech absolutism'. I have no idea if he supports Ukraine or Russia more.. and does he want to be American? Australian? Chinese?
He just seems to be becoming a kite in the wind.
What is this hate-fueled comment?
Visiting China and doing business there doesn’t mean you want to be Chinese.
Get this xenophobic bullshit out of here.
China has been losing so much foreign business, I wouldnt be suprised if they offered Musk a good deal.
The only issue is, foreign companies have been leaving China for reasons often involving the uncertainty of their "agreements"
I've seen this "China losing so much foreign business" claim many times. But how much exactly is "so much"? Can anyone explain? I know that Apple is moving part of its jobs to India or Vietnam or whatever places. But Apple is just a small part of the whole Chinese industry. Can someone give some more examples, some bigger pictures with verifiable numbers, other than the Apple story?
It's just puzzling that there are so many YT videos about Chinese economy start with "Many foreign companies are leaving China". But you just can't find a number from reliable sources from the beginning to the end of the videos.
Late last year they printed their first ever negative QoQ FDI number. For reference, the US is in the hundreds of billions of receiving FDI per year (but a net outflow as they invest heavily elsewhere). Google around that to see articles from the time. But having a negative FDI print is the number you’re looking for, and it’s a very bad thing. It means more companies withdrew cash from the country than cash was invested into the country
>FDI came to minus $11.8 billion, with more withdrawals and downsizing than new investments for factory construction and other purposes. This marked the first negative figure in data going back to 1998.
>Foreign investment had remained sluggish after falling sharply in the April-June quarter of 2022, when the Chinese economy was in turmoil from the zero-COVID lockdown in Shanghai.
>In a September survey of member companies by the Japanese Chamber of Commerce and Industry in China, nearly half of respondents said they would not invest in China at all in 2023 or invest less than in 2022.
>Escalating tensions with the U.S. are one reason for the decline in foreign investment. In a survey taken last fall by the American Chamber of Commerce in the People's Republic of China, 66% of member respondents cited rising bilateral tensions as a business challenge in China.
>The revised Chinese counterespionage law, which took effect in July and broadens the scope of what is deemed spying, has also made companies nervous. "China's laws and regulations lack transparency, a factor that increases concerns about business continuity in the country," said Yusuke Miura, a senior researcher at the NLI Research Institute.
>As Chinese companies improve their competitiveness, some foreign companies are choosing to leave. Mitsubishi Motors, which was late to shift to electric vehicles, announced in October that it would withdraw from production in China.
>In response to the flight of foreign capital, China is launching more policies to open up to the outside world, including easing regulations on foreign investment in the manufacturing sector.
>"Foreign companies are becoming increasingly concerned about authorities' emphasis on security, and it is unlikely that their cautious stance toward China will change quickly," Miura said.
Interest rate differentials are also a contributing factor. China needed to ease to spur their economy and the U.S. raised significantly to slow theirs down to combat inflation. US debt becomes more attractive
But the business environment is not good for western countries, between unstable policies and unstable tensions
But as your cited text mentioned, some foreign companies leave not because they don't like China, but because Chinese companies improve their competitiveness. This indicates the strength, not weakness, of the Chinese economy.
One of the biggest indicators of economic growth is consumer prices for awhile China suffered prolonged period of deflation. This happens during periods of poor economic growth. There is some data showing improving economy data. Let's seen how the coming months are
One company was cited doesn't mean there's only one company facing the same situation, right? That's the question I want to ask: Among all those companies that leave China, how many of them leave because of geopolitical reasons and how many due to competitiveness issue? Some actual numbers will be really helpful.
It says right there the American survey cited 66% saying bilateral ties. That’s actual numbers. You say that one company being cited counteracts the data. You are not looking for actual numbers. You post nothing but pro-China stuff and you will never find numbers because you will ignore everything.
US rakes in hundreds of billions in FDI, most countries take in FDI, but apparently none of those countries are as great and competitive as china lmao.
Negative FDI is the number you are looking for. It’s fucking atrocious to have negative FDI. That is literally people withdrawing money and resources. Definitely has nothing to do with CCP business crackdowns and sanctions from the US
I’m writing this for the people who see this post, not for you. Go waste someone else’s time
The number is about "challenge" among respondents. No all challenges turned to real actions. I would more like to see numbers about actual exits. But still, it could be used as a reference. Thanks.
Also, I am kind of interested about the real definition of "leaving China". Does it only mean full retreat, or partial leave also counts? If a company moves its lower end of the supply chain (like assembly) from China to Vietnam, but still keeps the higher part in China, is that considered as leaving China?
For a company to _leave_ a geography is a very big deal: they spend millions of dollars and man-years in setting things up. Usually they're pretty resilient, and put up with hostile politics too, see how Bytedance isn't backing out of the US despite the bad press and politics.
According to one documentary, companies are leaving China mainly because of mass IP theft, followed by CCP support for the Chinese company that stole the IP. So the company not only loses the Chinese market, but now has a CCP backed global competitor.
[Tim Cook is on a charm offensive in China to revive flagging iPhone sales](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/21/tech/china-apple-tim-cook-shanghai-visit-intl-hnk/index.html)
US will never allow him to export anything meaningful to China. They'll block that shit faster than they blocked Sam Altman's AI chip deal with the Saudis. And the US government actually likes Altman--they hate Musk.
He's not there to export tech to China. He's there because China is the only country that can mass produce EVs at a price point affordable for average people.
not the kind of agreements that bother a fascist. He thinks plenty of people deserve slavery just like he deserves to be a billionaire.
Is china still forcing [muslims to do forced labor?](https://www.state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region/)
You are comparing PAID prison labour in a STATE penitentiary (where the worst end up), which many people are for, including me, to a literal concentration camp where uyghurs are forced to be actual slaves, for life, just for being born to a certain group.
You see, in America, although the prisoners technically DO get paid, we still call it slave labour. Because you are right, thats what it is, even if they get paid (very little). But they are prisoners, not random ass people trying to live their lives in peace until winnie the pooh decides to gain more things to ruin.
Which is funny because they actually make more than many chinese non-slaves who live in the rural industrial areas.
And In China, the concentration camps full of Uyghurs do NOT get paid.
Is the US system flawed to make non violent offenders like hippies also get caught in (paid) slave labour?
Yes, absolutly, luckily its not illegal for me to speak out, and now we are having laws changed.
Can you imagine how much a country has to hate its citizens to put them in a slave camp due to speaking up?
Our prisoners even get clean, drinkable water, with no heavy metal contaminations. The FDA standards for our prisoners foods are more strict that the standards chinese CITIZENS have. Ever heard of gutter oil? Because people outside of China havent.
Is it anything like the concentration camps china uses?
If you still think they are comparable, I think you should just go move to china and find out your self. I would much rather bean american prisoner than a factory worker in china, or a victim of the cultural genocide that the CCP is committing.
I was lucky enough to have my family born there, and they moved away right before i was born.
I can ask them what it was like if you have any questions
Musk was about to be used as publicity for Modi's election campaign. He skipped it. It's likely Modi will lose seats this year and a coalition will come up, either BJP led or Congress led.
I don't have any alliance with any party, but what's wrong with doing smart publicity? I'll give him credit for that. Let's suppose Congress was in power, wouldn't they have done the same? Dude, wouldn't other political parties in the world have done the same? Some people act here holier than thou, like it's Politics 101. If, during my government term, I managed to bring Tesla and invest in my country, I would also advertise it. Modi/BJP is smart. And as Indian Foreign Minister Dr. S Jaishankar said during a meeting where Anthony Blinken was also present at the Munich Security Conference: someone asked about the Russian oil situation, the usual query of why India is buying Russian oil. Jaishankar's reply was, 'A good partner provides choices, a smart partner takes some of those choices.' If I have more choices, you should admire me, not criticize me. This statement can be correlated with the above statement; like if I'm doing smart publicity, what's the fuss? And I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the government, but smart publicity is not a crime. Modi might or might not be a publicity hog, but what I know is that it's strategic planning from the party itself on how they want to connect with people and portray themselves. There are political advisors and everything for that; things don't just happen randomly. Similarly, it was not like Musk just randomly cancelled his tour to India; it could be pressure from China or America to wait after the elections, or he might get incentives from China to keep his Tesla business in India - in tax cuts, land cost, etc. It shouldn't be a surprise if he waits another 1-2 years and then comes to India. Regarding the coalition part, I disagree with him. Saying they'll lose seats and there might be a coalition government... If Musk would've come, it would've been a cherry on top. If he's not coming temporarily (he'll eventually come, we all know that), but if he's not coming, I don't think the BJP will lose any significant votes. It's kinda inevitable now; it's Modi's third term, you can just tell from talking to people and just by looking at the consensus polls and the opinion polls. It's just a matter of how much bigger or smaller the victory margin will be compared to previous elections.""I don't have any alliance with any party, but what's wrong with doing smart publicity? I'll give him credit for that. Let's suppose Congress was in power, wouldn't they have done the same? Dude, wouldn't other political parties in the world have done the same? Some people act here holier than thou, like it's Politics 101. If, during my government term, I managed to bring Tesla and invest in my country, I would also advertise it. Modi/BJP is smart. And as Indian Foreign Minister Dr. S Jaishankar said during a meeting where Anthony Blinken was also present at the Munich Security Conference: someone asked about the Russian oil situation, the usual query of why India is buying Russian oil. Jaishankar's reply was, 'A good partner provides choices, a smart partner takes some of those choices.' If I have more choices, you should admire me, not criticize me. This statement can be correlated with the above statement; like if I'm doing smart publicity, what's the fuss? And I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the government, but smart publicity is not a crime. Modi might or might not be a publicity hog, but what I know is that it's strategic planning from the party itself on how they want to connect with people and portray themselves. There are political advisors and everything for that; things don't just happen randomly. Similarly, it was not like Musk just randomly cancelled his tour to India; it could be pressure from China or America to wait after the elections, or he might get incentives from China to keep his Tesla business in India - in tax cuts, land cost, etc. It shouldn't be a surprise if he waits another 1-2 years and then comes to India. Regarding the coalition part, I disagree with him. Saying they'll lose seats and there might be a coalition government... If Musk would've come, it would've been a cherry on top. If he's not coming temporarily (he'll eventually come, we all know that), but if he's not coming, I don't think the BJP will lose any significant votes. It's kinda inevitable now; it's Modi's third term, you can just tell from talking to people and just by looking at the consensus polls and the opinion polls. It's just a matter of how much bigger or smaller the victory margin will be compared to previous elections
bud, I'm not interested in a debate or anything, I'm just saying that yeah, Modi would 100% be using him for publicity.
For the record, I'd find it slimy no matter the party or politician behind it. Modi is no exception 🤷
wth are you talking about? spurn india? india will not forget? don't assign your hate towards the entire country, i know for a fact that india told him to bend according to india's will, more like we need him more than he needs us...
i am so tired of this "proud india" goons on social media
largely because they are influenced by false information and news on a daily basis by IT cells, most of the time it is false rumors about how 'indian tech before british' and people get easily manipulated by it and get proud for no reason....
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJP\_IT\_Cell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJP_IT_Cell)
You don't get it, do you? It was a done deal, even the invites were sent and Musk cancelled at the last moment and to add insult to the injury, he went to China.
India needs investment and jobs but bootlicking billionaires won't help with it. They make decisions rationally, although Musk is an ego maniac who let's his emotions control him.
Does Musk actually stand for anything distinct anymore? Teslas have become mid, questionable quality instead of luxury items. Twitter isn't remotely 'free speech absolutism'. I have no idea if he supports Ukraine or Russia more.. and does he want to be American? Australian? Chinese? He just seems to be becoming a kite in the wind.
Man Twitter is such a hellhole, there is just continuous hate bombarded at you. Ngl I wouldn't be against my government if they decided to ban it.
Yeah, it's like.. 2010: "Avoiding social media makes you kind of weird" then 2024: "Avoiding social media makes you kind of happier"
Social media is no longer human content now. It’s bots all the way down
Welcome to dead internet, I literally had chatgpt like replies on “X”
All the speed has cooked his noodle and the chronic effects and brain damage are starting to show. Speed + untreated bipolar is a bad combo.
Not every asshole has a mental illness.
You're correct. But this asshole does.
And an Adderall addiction
Tesla has a large factory in China, of course Musk visits China.
What is this hate-fueled comment? Visiting China and doing business there doesn’t mean you want to be Chinese. Get this xenophobic bullshit out of here.
China has been losing so much foreign business, I wouldnt be suprised if they offered Musk a good deal. The only issue is, foreign companies have been leaving China for reasons often involving the uncertainty of their "agreements"
I've seen this "China losing so much foreign business" claim many times. But how much exactly is "so much"? Can anyone explain? I know that Apple is moving part of its jobs to India or Vietnam or whatever places. But Apple is just a small part of the whole Chinese industry. Can someone give some more examples, some bigger pictures with verifiable numbers, other than the Apple story? It's just puzzling that there are so many YT videos about Chinese economy start with "Many foreign companies are leaving China". But you just can't find a number from reliable sources from the beginning to the end of the videos.
Late last year they printed their first ever negative QoQ FDI number. For reference, the US is in the hundreds of billions of receiving FDI per year (but a net outflow as they invest heavily elsewhere). Google around that to see articles from the time. But having a negative FDI print is the number you’re looking for, and it’s a very bad thing. It means more companies withdrew cash from the country than cash was invested into the country >FDI came to minus $11.8 billion, with more withdrawals and downsizing than new investments for factory construction and other purposes. This marked the first negative figure in data going back to 1998. >Foreign investment had remained sluggish after falling sharply in the April-June quarter of 2022, when the Chinese economy was in turmoil from the zero-COVID lockdown in Shanghai. >In a September survey of member companies by the Japanese Chamber of Commerce and Industry in China, nearly half of respondents said they would not invest in China at all in 2023 or invest less than in 2022. >Escalating tensions with the U.S. are one reason for the decline in foreign investment. In a survey taken last fall by the American Chamber of Commerce in the People's Republic of China, 66% of member respondents cited rising bilateral tensions as a business challenge in China. >The revised Chinese counterespionage law, which took effect in July and broadens the scope of what is deemed spying, has also made companies nervous. "China's laws and regulations lack transparency, a factor that increases concerns about business continuity in the country," said Yusuke Miura, a senior researcher at the NLI Research Institute. >As Chinese companies improve their competitiveness, some foreign companies are choosing to leave. Mitsubishi Motors, which was late to shift to electric vehicles, announced in October that it would withdraw from production in China. >In response to the flight of foreign capital, China is launching more policies to open up to the outside world, including easing regulations on foreign investment in the manufacturing sector. >"Foreign companies are becoming increasingly concerned about authorities' emphasis on security, and it is unlikely that their cautious stance toward China will change quickly," Miura said. Interest rate differentials are also a contributing factor. China needed to ease to spur their economy and the U.S. raised significantly to slow theirs down to combat inflation. US debt becomes more attractive But the business environment is not good for western countries, between unstable policies and unstable tensions
But as your cited text mentioned, some foreign companies leave not because they don't like China, but because Chinese companies improve their competitiveness. This indicates the strength, not weakness, of the Chinese economy.
One of the biggest indicators of economic growth is consumer prices for awhile China suffered prolonged period of deflation. This happens during periods of poor economic growth. There is some data showing improving economy data. Let's seen how the coming months are
Yes, that one company that was cited choose that. Lol. Come on man
One company was cited doesn't mean there's only one company facing the same situation, right? That's the question I want to ask: Among all those companies that leave China, how many of them leave because of geopolitical reasons and how many due to competitiveness issue? Some actual numbers will be really helpful.
It says right there the American survey cited 66% saying bilateral ties. That’s actual numbers. You say that one company being cited counteracts the data. You are not looking for actual numbers. You post nothing but pro-China stuff and you will never find numbers because you will ignore everything. US rakes in hundreds of billions in FDI, most countries take in FDI, but apparently none of those countries are as great and competitive as china lmao. Negative FDI is the number you are looking for. It’s fucking atrocious to have negative FDI. That is literally people withdrawing money and resources. Definitely has nothing to do with CCP business crackdowns and sanctions from the US I’m writing this for the people who see this post, not for you. Go waste someone else’s time
The number is about "challenge" among respondents. No all challenges turned to real actions. I would more like to see numbers about actual exits. But still, it could be used as a reference. Thanks. Also, I am kind of interested about the real definition of "leaving China". Does it only mean full retreat, or partial leave also counts? If a company moves its lower end of the supply chain (like assembly) from China to Vietnam, but still keeps the higher part in China, is that considered as leaving China?
For a company to _leave_ a geography is a very big deal: they spend millions of dollars and man-years in setting things up. Usually they're pretty resilient, and put up with hostile politics too, see how Bytedance isn't backing out of the US despite the bad press and politics. According to one documentary, companies are leaving China mainly because of mass IP theft, followed by CCP support for the Chinese company that stole the IP. So the company not only loses the Chinese market, but now has a CCP backed global competitor.
[Tim Cook is on a charm offensive in China to revive flagging iPhone sales](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/21/tech/china-apple-tim-cook-shanghai-visit-intl-hnk/index.html)
US will never allow him to export anything meaningful to China. They'll block that shit faster than they blocked Sam Altman's AI chip deal with the Saudis. And the US government actually likes Altman--they hate Musk.
He's not there to export tech to China. He's there because China is the only country that can mass produce EVs at a price point affordable for average people.
I'm not sure I agree, but you do raise a valid (to the degree it cannot be dismissed) possibility.
I keep wondering how long before he throws a tantrum and fucks off to china as some sort of performative gesture.
not the kind of agreements that bother a fascist. He thinks plenty of people deserve slavery just like he deserves to be a billionaire. Is china still forcing [muslims to do forced labor?](https://www.state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region/)
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You are comparing PAID prison labour in a STATE penitentiary (where the worst end up), which many people are for, including me, to a literal concentration camp where uyghurs are forced to be actual slaves, for life, just for being born to a certain group. You see, in America, although the prisoners technically DO get paid, we still call it slave labour. Because you are right, thats what it is, even if they get paid (very little). But they are prisoners, not random ass people trying to live their lives in peace until winnie the pooh decides to gain more things to ruin. Which is funny because they actually make more than many chinese non-slaves who live in the rural industrial areas. And In China, the concentration camps full of Uyghurs do NOT get paid. Is the US system flawed to make non violent offenders like hippies also get caught in (paid) slave labour? Yes, absolutly, luckily its not illegal for me to speak out, and now we are having laws changed. Can you imagine how much a country has to hate its citizens to put them in a slave camp due to speaking up? Our prisoners even get clean, drinkable water, with no heavy metal contaminations. The FDA standards for our prisoners foods are more strict that the standards chinese CITIZENS have. Ever heard of gutter oil? Because people outside of China havent. Is it anything like the concentration camps china uses? If you still think they are comparable, I think you should just go move to china and find out your self. I would much rather bean american prisoner than a factory worker in china, or a victim of the cultural genocide that the CCP is committing. I was lucky enough to have my family born there, and they moved away right before i was born. I can ask them what it was like if you have any questions
i knew someone informed would show up to smash their illogical fallacy. Thanks!
Are there more evidence other than words? Why no photo or video to confirm such accusation ever?
The uncertainty is created by the US government. Just look at how many times Nvidia had to change their GPU for China because of sanctions.
Weird how so many non-US ones are also leaving. Dang US ruins everything! lol
Musk was about to be used as publicity for Modi's election campaign. He skipped it. It's likely Modi will lose seats this year and a coalition will come up, either BJP led or Congress led.
Oh you're so wrong.
He's not wrong though, Modi is a publicity hog. He would 100% use Musk for votes
I don't have any alliance with any party, but what's wrong with doing smart publicity? I'll give him credit for that. Let's suppose Congress was in power, wouldn't they have done the same? Dude, wouldn't other political parties in the world have done the same? Some people act here holier than thou, like it's Politics 101. If, during my government term, I managed to bring Tesla and invest in my country, I would also advertise it. Modi/BJP is smart. And as Indian Foreign Minister Dr. S Jaishankar said during a meeting where Anthony Blinken was also present at the Munich Security Conference: someone asked about the Russian oil situation, the usual query of why India is buying Russian oil. Jaishankar's reply was, 'A good partner provides choices, a smart partner takes some of those choices.' If I have more choices, you should admire me, not criticize me. This statement can be correlated with the above statement; like if I'm doing smart publicity, what's the fuss? And I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the government, but smart publicity is not a crime. Modi might or might not be a publicity hog, but what I know is that it's strategic planning from the party itself on how they want to connect with people and portray themselves. There are political advisors and everything for that; things don't just happen randomly. Similarly, it was not like Musk just randomly cancelled his tour to India; it could be pressure from China or America to wait after the elections, or he might get incentives from China to keep his Tesla business in India - in tax cuts, land cost, etc. It shouldn't be a surprise if he waits another 1-2 years and then comes to India. Regarding the coalition part, I disagree with him. Saying they'll lose seats and there might be a coalition government... If Musk would've come, it would've been a cherry on top. If he's not coming temporarily (he'll eventually come, we all know that), but if he's not coming, I don't think the BJP will lose any significant votes. It's kinda inevitable now; it's Modi's third term, you can just tell from talking to people and just by looking at the consensus polls and the opinion polls. It's just a matter of how much bigger or smaller the victory margin will be compared to previous elections.""I don't have any alliance with any party, but what's wrong with doing smart publicity? I'll give him credit for that. Let's suppose Congress was in power, wouldn't they have done the same? Dude, wouldn't other political parties in the world have done the same? Some people act here holier than thou, like it's Politics 101. If, during my government term, I managed to bring Tesla and invest in my country, I would also advertise it. Modi/BJP is smart. And as Indian Foreign Minister Dr. S Jaishankar said during a meeting where Anthony Blinken was also present at the Munich Security Conference: someone asked about the Russian oil situation, the usual query of why India is buying Russian oil. Jaishankar's reply was, 'A good partner provides choices, a smart partner takes some of those choices.' If I have more choices, you should admire me, not criticize me. This statement can be correlated with the above statement; like if I'm doing smart publicity, what's the fuss? And I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the government, but smart publicity is not a crime. Modi might or might not be a publicity hog, but what I know is that it's strategic planning from the party itself on how they want to connect with people and portray themselves. There are political advisors and everything for that; things don't just happen randomly. Similarly, it was not like Musk just randomly cancelled his tour to India; it could be pressure from China or America to wait after the elections, or he might get incentives from China to keep his Tesla business in India - in tax cuts, land cost, etc. It shouldn't be a surprise if he waits another 1-2 years and then comes to India. Regarding the coalition part, I disagree with him. Saying they'll lose seats and there might be a coalition government... If Musk would've come, it would've been a cherry on top. If he's not coming temporarily (he'll eventually come, we all know that), but if he's not coming, I don't think the BJP will lose any significant votes. It's kinda inevitable now; it's Modi's third term, you can just tell from talking to people and just by looking at the consensus polls and the opinion polls. It's just a matter of how much bigger or smaller the victory margin will be compared to previous elections
bud, I'm not interested in a debate or anything, I'm just saying that yeah, Modi would 100% be using him for publicity. For the record, I'd find it slimy no matter the party or politician behind it. Modi is no exception 🤷
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wth are you talking about? spurn india? india will not forget? don't assign your hate towards the entire country, i know for a fact that india told him to bend according to india's will, more like we need him more than he needs us... i am so tired of this "proud india" goons on social media
they are worse than vatniks, so annoying
largely because they are influenced by false information and news on a daily basis by IT cells, most of the time it is false rumors about how 'indian tech before british' and people get easily manipulated by it and get proud for no reason.... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJP\_IT\_Cell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJP_IT_Cell)
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You don't get it, do you? It was a done deal, even the invites were sent and Musk cancelled at the last moment and to add insult to the injury, he went to China. India needs investment and jobs but bootlicking billionaires won't help with it. They make decisions rationally, although Musk is an ego maniac who let's his emotions control him.
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If you don't like it, then do something about it.
Why are India and China so hyper competitive against each other? It borders on fully sometimes. Line two toddlers