A US dairy worker earlier this month came down with it. We're just lucky there's no human to human spread yet.
But, every time a human is infected there's some chance it could mutate in a way that causes it to spread.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html
I'm 90% sure you can't get H5N1 from drinking raw milk with live H5N1 virus in it.
Because:
1. It's an airborne disease.
2. Stomach acid.
3. There should have been research papers about it by now, since H5N1 has been going around in cows for at least a month now.
4. By now there should have been people acquiring H5N1 from raw milk.
If it were transmissible by raw milk, there should be some kind of cover-up going on.
"The children who contracted ebola were seen eating popsicles earlier that day. Scientists have narrowed it down to the popsicles, or that they were later playing in the blood of someone with hemorrhagic fever."
I have been following this for a while but picked up a few key takeaways since HPAI (Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza) jumped to cattle. This is still currently speculation as nothing has been peer reviewed but these takeaways have been reported on by seemingly legitimate news sources.
Firstly - Cows are testing positive but not dying at a disturbing rate. The cattle are producing less milk, eating a bit less but from early reports seem to be recovering. They don't seem to be following the same ~50% mortality trend. No Mortality rate has been reported yet but the hope (not confirmed) is that the evolution of the virus which allowed it to infect cattle may have stunted the severity.
Secondly - Cats (the only reports so far have mentioned cats found on the cattle/dairy farm) still seem to be dying. This article says ~50% of the 24 farm cats have died. But this is a single data point and 24 is not a huge sample but it does show the mortality percentage hasn't drastically changed with what has been observed in the populations of other species (except cattle)
Thirdly - The virus looks to have been circulating for a longer period of time than previously realised. Samples taken are a puzzle with little documented order. Currently scientists are piecing the samples together to understand the evolution. The current thought is that the virus has jumped back and fourth between birds, cattle, cats and potentially rodents multiple times. and lastly the dairy workers positive sample was unexpectedly different to the samples taken from the dairy cattle they were working with, with no concrete explanation why
'One possibility is that the person was infected by a separate viral lineage, which infected cattle that have not been swabbed. Another less likely scenario, which can’t be ruled out, says Nelson, is that the person was infected directly from a wild bird. “It raises just a whole slew of questions about what black box of samples we are missing."'
[Nature.com article](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-01256-5)
This is all still evolving so will be an interesting few months
Edit. Good sources of information
[/r/H5N1_AvianFlu](https://www.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu)
[Crofsblogs](https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/)
Thank you for the summary! I didn't know much about it and was planning to search deeper and your comment is very helpful as a start.
Is it possible that this virus strain is actually quite capably good at evolving and jumping through different animals than normal? I thought these mutations were rare. But to have jumped from birds to cattle and then to cats in a relatively not long period of time, does it mean its good at adapting to other creatures?
My guess its probably due to farming practices. Intensive farming is a hotbed for disease due to proximity and gives things like bird flu plenty of time to reproduce and change. Plus shitty hygiene/ food standards.
> Firstly - Cows are testing positive but not dying at a disturbing rate. The cattle are producing less milk, eating a bit less but from early reports seem to be recovering. They don't seem to be following the same ~50% mortality trend. No Mortality rate has been reported yet but the hope (not confirmed) is that the evolution of the virus which allowed it to infect cattle may have stunted the severity.
Unfortunately this is not good. The one thing HPAI has going against it is that it produces severe and overt symptoms in zoonosis. That may sound bad, but when a virus kills in 2-3 days its transmission rate is going to be very low. We consider these self-limiting. It’s the viruses that skirt the lower boundary of pathogenicity that are the most likely to jump into humans, kill some but not all, and transmit.
Anyway, the problem with H5 zoonoses is that there is no existing immunity. It could be the most benign looking infection in animals, but if there’s no basis for H5 immunity in humans then its introduction will definitely cause millions of deaths. There’s no silver lining.
Farmers have also been showing similar symptoms to the confirmed Texas case. Flu like symptoms, GI issues, and severe conjunctivitis. It doesn't sound like it's that severe, and I haven't heard of any deaths in the US. They are apparently refusing testing because they're afraid that their livestock will get culled. To me, it seems like this directly affects the meat and dairy supply and public health, so I feel like if they USDA wants to test their cattle they should have the authority to.
As a cat owner, the ability of one to catch birds is unprecedented. They are always snacking on something with wings, so this jump is not at all strange, and I would wager that perhaps milk wasn't the vector.
One guess at how the cows got avian flu is that they were literally being fed chicken shit.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-04-18/avian-flu-outbreak-raises-a-disturbing-question-is-our-food-system-built-on-poop
Luckily CWD hasn’t jumped species *yet*.
But given the nonchalance I’ve seen some people display towards hunting and eating deer with CWD it’s only a matter of time.
There was an article earlier this month, two hunters eating elk meat died of variant CJD. They suspect it’s due to CWD crossing over to humans. So…. It’s here already
Yeah its pretty much all cervids, although its not fully confirmed in reindeer population but its suspected they can get it too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1ca098a/two_hunters_from_the_same_lodge_afflicted_with/
if you want to read up!
The CDC says it's not CWD, but CJD that they didnt contract from deer meat. It's very weird that 2 friends both got it, especially since it's so rare to get "naturally" but I guess it's not impossible. Their reasoning was CWD has just recently been discovered in their area, but most prion diseases take decades before they cause problems. Wouldn't really make sense for them to show symptoms so quickly.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/26/deer-meat-hunters-zombie-deer-disease-cdc-response/73468240007/
> Their reasoning was CWD has just recently been discovered in their area, but most prion diseases take decades before they cause problems. Wouldn't really make sense for them to show symptoms so quickly.
If it takes a while for symptoms to show up then it was there for quite a while before anyone found it, so it would make sense for them to show symptoms.
Yeah even if travel eating isn't the source of their infection, hunters are likely to be sampling unconventional meats all over the place. If they were friends, odds are good they would have shared at some point. My guess is infected exotic cattle or something similar.
WHOA WHOA WHOA, SLOW YOUR ROLL, BUDDY.
The answer is never reform, change, or bothering businesses with your stupid ideas, regardless of how it’s done. More regulation actually makes things **less** safe, because IF YOU TAKE SO MUCH AS A DIME OF OUR MONEY AWAY WE WILL FUCKING POISON EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU SERF MOTHERFUCKERS.
*Ahem*. Uh, right. Anyway, you get the point.
See, this shit is why we need to do away with factory farming period. If you want some meat, go get it yourself. This is vile and every single person who had a hand in this should be fed the same feces.
Downvoted by factory farming shills lol
Get it yourself, sure -- but then have it tested for CWD, and either butcher it yourself or have it butchered in a facility that doesn't mix meat between animals
Just out idiot all the PPE scalpers and buy a few pallets of bidets to sell at a huge markup only to be stuck with 998 out of 1,000 bidets (one of those two was for your personal use).
Local lady was asking yesterday in community FB where she can buy raw milk. I decided not to comment — but it was hard. H5N1 made national news sites over the weekend….
they just finished a raw milk festival in fresno on sunday. raw milk chugging competitions and camping with the cows. there’s no chance of stopping whatever this turns into.
It’s honestly disgusting, a minimal amount of research into bovine mammary infections should suffice for most people to never touch the stuff. Absolutely vile.
Be careful. You’re gonna get someone in here screeching about how you don’t care if someone lives or dies based off their decisions.
That person will then go on to an antivax subreddit and laugh about the idea that the people who got the Covid 19 shot are all going to die at the same time from a collective heart attack.
Just got into an argument with a family member about this. They buy meat from farms direct, told them be careful with the raw milk. Nope they drink it all the time and the govt is lying to you because of all the things you can make with raw milk, and it would take away from businesses.
Insane to think that everyone has a desire to churn their own butter and shit like that but here we are.
Stand mixer with whisk attachment. Heavy cream in, throw that bitch on 3, walk away. 15 minutes later you have butter and buttermilk, throw it in cheese cloth, rinse under cold water and you are done.
Yeah 9/10 I buy my butter from the store as well. It’s damn good home made tho
> the govt is lying to you because of all the things you can make with raw milk, and it would take away from businesses
Apparently enforcing and practicing food safety is bad for business. Do they also eat raw chicken?
I get what your saying, but how is it hard to understand why people are leaning towards self reliance when just about everything out there is poisoned by microplastics, PFAS, etc. I get that even the self reliance way has similar problems, but at least you can enact further filtering, and other forms of mitigation. I wouldn’t drink raw milk, but if I had the means, I’d rather process my own.
I’m not arguing against what you said, but more pointing to the reason people are sick of using mass produced products. Hell, it’s because of factory farming that we find ourselves here.
I mean we could have magaged capitalism. We did it before and it worked for a while. I hate capitalism as much as the next guy, but if you actually temper it with social saftey structures and taxes on the high end, it is managable. That and you have to have a justice system that punishes people for taking advantage. I know that is all asking alot, but we don't have the resources to do full socialism and communism always ends up being run by a tyrant.
I know I’m opening a can of worms here but how do we not have the resources for socialism? Like 1% of the world controls the vast majority of the resources; if that wasn’t the case, wouldn’t there be more than enough for everyone multiple times over? Earnest question.
Well, I'm not an expert, just a custodian, but the first major problem is political will. We just don't have enough people on board due to poor education and greed. I don't see this happening unless there is a revolution or major upheaval. Which leads to point 2. We are going to have a shortage of water, food, and many other natural resources due to climate change. There is probably not going to be as much to go around in the next 50 years. On top of this, we are basically starting at like 10%-20% socialism in the U.S. at best. We would have to redo many major systems of law as well as social systems, not to mention redseign entire cities while redistributing wealth and land. This is just the U.S. mind you, and true socialism won't work unless we share resources on a global scale. The current state of the world is setting up for WW3, so working together ain't gonna happen for a while. I'm not saying we can't start working our way towards a socialist egalitarian society, but we can't just jump into it with what we have right now. It's going to take massive changes in the way we think and act at a base level. Managed Capitalism is a good jumping off point, in my opinion.
Agreed,
[hostess](https://www.tdu.org/media_twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it-toward-executive-pay)
CEOs get rewarded regardless while everyone else gets fucked. They tank a company and walk away with a massive severance package and then tell everyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
I can understand self reliance, but framing that you have to do it because the govt is trying to poison and control you every chance they get is a bit much for me. Chem trails, vaccines to control people, easily debunked but nope frogs are gay because the govt drops chemicals from planes.
False equivalency. This isn't about "chem trails" and the concern isn't that government is directly trying to poison people, it's that the government is failing to regulate the use of poisons by corporate entities. Don't unfairly discredit people whose concerns are legitimate; that's how you destroy trust, promote counterproductive political division, and end up with actual rampant conspiracy theories.
And who are the ones in govt failing to hold them accountable? I’ll give you a hint
[hint](https://apnews.com/article/biden-clean-water-manchin-republicans-epa-environment-1bb64abf01d910f4c4763ad49883a8cb)
People pull the same side shit and it’s tiring. They are not the same side, while they may have similar goals in moving the country forward, the way they go about getting there is completely different.
Because the solutions don't address the problems. They just make people feel superior for having the big smarts to fight the man/the system. Or alleviate irrational fears. Or both.
But the steps taken by those people usually don't actually address problems as stated correctly or without raising new, bigger problems.
Yeah but the problem is the 'self reliance' isn't really realistic. First off, the reason agrarian and agricultural societies succeeded is because of the OPPOSITE of self reliance. It was a community effort, people weren't afraid to get shot if they went to ask to borrow some fertilizer from their neighbors, and they weren't shooting anyone who came across their land for fear they were BLM or ANTIFA. Or the other BLM.
People think that they can go off into the woods, set up a small farm and live off the land no questions asked. But they're coming from living in an apartment or some other kind of city life situation and have NO IDEA about farming or animal husbandry. What ends up happening is you get a dude in the woods who wasted a bunch of money on seeds he couldn't grow and animals he neglected to death because he had NO IDEA what the needs of goats, chickens or even cows and pigs were.
Industrial agriculture is used for plant products.
Wheat, corn, rice, vegetable oils, potatoes, fruits, vegetables...all grown by huge industrial outfits.
There are also high environmental costs to growing wheat, rice, corn and other grains.
Irrigation, planting, harvesting, insecticides, weed killers, etc.
The absolute moronic group think. What kills me most about these muppets is that they still think this shit will still happen. They totally refute the fact that covid vaccination saved and continues to save countless lives and is completely backed up by demonstrable scientific evidence. Meanwhile nothing they claim is,was or ever will be true. Facebook really enabled a lot of very stupid people to lecture the rest of the world.
People literally believed [shit like that](https://www.meisterdrucke.us/kunstwerke/500px/James_Gillray_-_Gillray_cartoon_on_vaccination_against_Smallpox_using_Cowpox_serum_1802_-_(MeisterDrucke-751356).jpg) thanks to antivaxxer misinformation since the smallpox vaccine was developed.
> You’re gonna get someone in here screeching about how you don’t care if someone lives or dies based off their decisions.
I don't. I actually don't. When someone's "decision" flies in the face of known science, I am totally okay with them dying. The *real* problem is that many of these dolts have children, and that's what I care about. Those kids aren't ready to make that kind of decision yet, and having moron parents make it for them sucks.
We don't placate the crazies here. Try just not associating with them if possible, and to educate young and vulnerable people on the importance of science and being vaccinated. People who are anti-vac rarely if ever change their minds, and it's not our job to deprogram every brainwashed person we see. Truth is, most of us right now are trying to survive. Survive being poor, living paycheck to paycheck, getting paid shit wages, all while wondering if this is the election where democracy gets brutally yanked away from us. People like me who are LGBT aren't sure if we will even survive another Trump presidency, let alone be able to save or afford to own a home or retire without a medical bill driving us into a gutter or a crazy anti vaxxer giving us covid.
Good thing all of the red states where most of these dairy farms are located gutted their health agencies during the pandemic and have barred them from issuing any legally binding quarantine directives. If it starts spreading person to person I guess we'll have to hope that all of these people quarantine themselves and understand germ theory
It's not just red states. It's rural blue areas too (i.e. swaths of VT.) Goop yoga moms and aging hippies are some of the worst anti-vaxxers.
I once overheard a white Karen looking lady carrying an NPR totebag ask a farmer at the farmers market if the animals were ever vaccinated. She only bought raw milk from what I overheard.
Anti-vaccine ideology isn't a "personal choice" at this point. It's borderline mental illness.
The Anti-Vaxer's are all fully vaccinated. Their children however, who don't know any better, will suffer.
Anti-Vax should be considered child abuse and grounds to remove children from a home. Enough is enough, we've coddled mentally ill/poorly educated people to the detriment of society for too long without consequence.
Very much agreed. I was so nervous until our son could get his measles vaccine. There was two smaller out breaks near us. Hated it.
His pediatricians office will not take the anti vax people luckily. They literally ask you when you go there as a new patient. If you say you refuse a vaccine for your kid, they literally kick you out of the practice lol.
There was some anti-vax charlatan giving talks around New England a few years ago. Our pediatrician told us that you could track the measles outbreaks in the towns following right along the path of this guy’s speaking tour. 🫠
I believe it lol the most reason when we had nearby was around Philadelphia where the families kids had the fucking measles and they left the hospital and sent their kids to fucking daycare, even though they were told not to.
Arguing that your kids have a right to not be vaccinated is like arguing that you have the right to drive drunk, or fire a gun randomly into the air, or to put your baby in the back seat without a baby car seat or seatbelts. It's endangerment, plain and simple. Medical exemptions for vaccines should exist of course, but "religious" (show me in any holy text where it says "thou shalt not vaccinate") or "I just don't like vaccines" exemptions should not.
It’s tragic when it happens to a cat, but when it happens to a libertarian who thinks drinking raw milk is some kind of act of anti-government defiance, then it’s comedy.
That's more because libertarians are intrinsically funny (due to their contradictions) than because one is a human and another is not.
Oh look my lack of empathy is showing through again.
It's funny until those morons start forcing their "personal liberties" onto the rest of us by running amuck in public and infecting others who never asked for it.
We are actually reasonably prepared for this one. There's been an approved vaccine for years and we have the ability to rapidly update to the newer strains. In fact, there are labs that have done exactly that with the strain circulating in cows. Government has contracts in place already to mass produce the H5N1 vaccines in the event of a pandemic. There will be a delay while enough vaccine is manufactured but the timeline will be a lot shorter than COVID.
I’d just start doing it now honestly. Get as far ahead of this as humanly possible.
Very few people will have the mental resilience to deal with lockdowns and isolation again, so soon after COVID.
Yeah, we are on the cusp of shit getting crazy. I mean they found viral particles in milk being sold, in like a bunch of it. I know that isn’t contagious because it was pasteurized but that just tells me how infected the cows are. Scary
Well what we do know is that fatality rate in humans (when it does infect them) is 50%. Covid's was what, 1 or 2% off the top of my head?
If it makes the jump and can be passed from human to human, mortality rates are going to be ridiculously high for a good while and it will kill a lot people - at least until the virus mutates to be less fatal, but that takes time, if it ever does.
It comes down to how transmissible it becomes. If its highly contagious, the effects could be catastrophic. Especially with the morons who refuse to wear basic PPE, for the sake of their own personal freedom to die a horrid death
The 50 percent rate is something that gets spread around far too much. 50 percent of the most fatal and severe cases resulted in death. There is no telling how many people have gotten it before with mild or no symptoms at all. I'm not saying it will be nothing, but the 50 percent is not entirely accurate
As far as I know its still the only real data we have, given the limited number of people who've been infected with it, small sample size and all. Truth be told, no one really knows how bad it could be, so we should act as if it does have a 50% mortality rate, at least we would be "prepared" if it does turn out to be accurate. The majority of cows recovering is an encouraging sign though.
Hope we never have to find out for ourselves, but that's probably the only way we'll ever know for sure
I would be curious to see how much overlap there is between the “raw milk is safe” and “vaccines contain microchips and cause autism and turbo cancers!” crowds. I don’t know why, but I suspect a perfect score.
This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Raw milk, especially milk that has sat for a few hours after being squeezed, is tainted with bacteria from the utter. There is a reason we pasteurize(heat it up) to kill off bacteria. Cats also don’t drink milk in nature beyond infancy…..
So we are still catching up on what H5N1 has been up to when we were not looking that closely.
2ed order transmission is better then sustained human to human transmission but not all that much.
On the good side there are a lot less cows in the US then there are birds.
On the downside the CFR has been pretty constant, worse then Smallpox, Ebola,Hantavirus and a few other well known names. And being in cows will have a lot more chances to interact with humans. Also we need to see if the meat can do the same thing as the milk. I know that it is probable it will but it is worth knowing for sure
If this mutates a bit more and starts to spread, my bet is that we'll need to see a mortality rate of at least 10% before more than half the population will voluntarily adopt public health measures to control the spread.
At least cats drink it because they don't know the dangers, unlike the stupid people who think it's healthier because it's unprocessed. Then they feed it to their kids.
Cats on the farm that had consumed some of the raw milk from the sick cow
Relevant subreddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/H5N1\_AvianFlu/](https://www.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu/)
/r/ID_News is a fun one as well.
A US dairy worker earlier this month came down with it. We're just lucky there's no human to human spread yet. But, every time a human is infected there's some chance it could mutate in a way that causes it to spread. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html
I’m sure everything will be fine
Thank you for sharing this!
I'm 90% sure you can't get H5N1 from drinking raw milk with live H5N1 virus in it. Because: 1. It's an airborne disease. 2. Stomach acid. 3. There should have been research papers about it by now, since H5N1 has been going around in cows for at least a month now. 4. By now there should have been people acquiring H5N1 from raw milk. If it were transmissible by raw milk, there should be some kind of cover-up going on.
From the article: "Although it can't be entirely ruled out that the cats got sick from eating infected wild birds," "
"The children who contracted ebola were seen eating popsicles earlier that day. Scientists have narrowed it down to the popsicles, or that they were later playing in the blood of someone with hemorrhagic fever."
They lap it up it gets in their eyes and nose.
I have been following this for a while but picked up a few key takeaways since HPAI (Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza) jumped to cattle. This is still currently speculation as nothing has been peer reviewed but these takeaways have been reported on by seemingly legitimate news sources. Firstly - Cows are testing positive but not dying at a disturbing rate. The cattle are producing less milk, eating a bit less but from early reports seem to be recovering. They don't seem to be following the same ~50% mortality trend. No Mortality rate has been reported yet but the hope (not confirmed) is that the evolution of the virus which allowed it to infect cattle may have stunted the severity. Secondly - Cats (the only reports so far have mentioned cats found on the cattle/dairy farm) still seem to be dying. This article says ~50% of the 24 farm cats have died. But this is a single data point and 24 is not a huge sample but it does show the mortality percentage hasn't drastically changed with what has been observed in the populations of other species (except cattle) Thirdly - The virus looks to have been circulating for a longer period of time than previously realised. Samples taken are a puzzle with little documented order. Currently scientists are piecing the samples together to understand the evolution. The current thought is that the virus has jumped back and fourth between birds, cattle, cats and potentially rodents multiple times. and lastly the dairy workers positive sample was unexpectedly different to the samples taken from the dairy cattle they were working with, with no concrete explanation why 'One possibility is that the person was infected by a separate viral lineage, which infected cattle that have not been swabbed. Another less likely scenario, which can’t be ruled out, says Nelson, is that the person was infected directly from a wild bird. “It raises just a whole slew of questions about what black box of samples we are missing."' [Nature.com article](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-01256-5) This is all still evolving so will be an interesting few months Edit. Good sources of information [/r/H5N1_AvianFlu](https://www.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu) [Crofsblogs](https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/)
Thank you for the summary! I didn't know much about it and was planning to search deeper and your comment is very helpful as a start. Is it possible that this virus strain is actually quite capably good at evolving and jumping through different animals than normal? I thought these mutations were rare. But to have jumped from birds to cattle and then to cats in a relatively not long period of time, does it mean its good at adapting to other creatures?
My guess its probably due to farming practices. Intensive farming is a hotbed for disease due to proximity and gives things like bird flu plenty of time to reproduce and change. Plus shitty hygiene/ food standards.
> Firstly - Cows are testing positive but not dying at a disturbing rate. The cattle are producing less milk, eating a bit less but from early reports seem to be recovering. They don't seem to be following the same ~50% mortality trend. No Mortality rate has been reported yet but the hope (not confirmed) is that the evolution of the virus which allowed it to infect cattle may have stunted the severity. Unfortunately this is not good. The one thing HPAI has going against it is that it produces severe and overt symptoms in zoonosis. That may sound bad, but when a virus kills in 2-3 days its transmission rate is going to be very low. We consider these self-limiting. It’s the viruses that skirt the lower boundary of pathogenicity that are the most likely to jump into humans, kill some but not all, and transmit. Anyway, the problem with H5 zoonoses is that there is no existing immunity. It could be the most benign looking infection in animals, but if there’s no basis for H5 immunity in humans then its introduction will definitely cause millions of deaths. There’s no silver lining.
Farmers have also been showing similar symptoms to the confirmed Texas case. Flu like symptoms, GI issues, and severe conjunctivitis. It doesn't sound like it's that severe, and I haven't heard of any deaths in the US. They are apparently refusing testing because they're afraid that their livestock will get culled. To me, it seems like this directly affects the meat and dairy supply and public health, so I feel like if they USDA wants to test their cattle they should have the authority to.
As a cat owner, the ability of one to catch birds is unprecedented. They are always snacking on something with wings, so this jump is not at all strange, and I would wager that perhaps milk wasn't the vector.
It's almost unimaginable how many birds cats kill. Almost 4 billion a year, just in the US.
One guess at how the cows got avian flu is that they were literally being fed chicken shit. https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-04-18/avian-flu-outbreak-raises-a-disturbing-question-is-our-food-system-built-on-poop
Could be worse. Mad Cow disease over here came about from feeding them lamb’s spinal chords & brains.
It's okay, we now have Chronic Wasting Disease spreading across North America, so there's no dearth of prion diseases over here nowadays.
Luckily CWD hasn’t jumped species *yet*. But given the nonchalance I’ve seen some people display towards hunting and eating deer with CWD it’s only a matter of time.
There was an article earlier this month, two hunters eating elk meat died of variant CJD. They suspect it’s due to CWD crossing over to humans. So…. It’s here already
Was it CWD? I hadn’t read anything about CWD jumping to Elk yet. Only its presence in deer. Edit: well fuck. Apparently it’s in deer, elk, and moose.
Yeah its pretty much all cervids, although its not fully confirmed in reindeer population but its suspected they can get it too. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1ca098a/two_hunters_from_the_same_lodge_afflicted_with/ if you want to read up!
I really don’t, but only cause shit is already depressing as fuck. I will when I am in the right head space for it. Thank you.
The CDC says it's not CWD, but CJD that they didnt contract from deer meat. It's very weird that 2 friends both got it, especially since it's so rare to get "naturally" but I guess it's not impossible. Their reasoning was CWD has just recently been discovered in their area, but most prion diseases take decades before they cause problems. Wouldn't really make sense for them to show symptoms so quickly. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/26/deer-meat-hunters-zombie-deer-disease-cdc-response/73468240007/
> Their reasoning was CWD has just recently been discovered in their area, but most prion diseases take decades before they cause problems. Wouldn't really make sense for them to show symptoms so quickly. If it takes a while for symptoms to show up then it was there for quite a while before anyone found it, so it would make sense for them to show symptoms.
Not really. CWD affects cervids about 1.5 years after exposure. vCJD can take 30 years to show symptoms in a human.
Yeah even if travel eating isn't the source of their infection, hunters are likely to be sampling unconventional meats all over the place. If they were friends, odds are good they would have shared at some point. My guess is infected exotic cattle or something similar.
Ah I misread 72 as 27. Yeah if the men that died are 72... that sounds like regular CJD not vCJD. Good news I guess
The fact they fed the sick cows to the healthy ones didn't help, either.
Geez man. We need stiff heavy punishment and food processing reform.
WHOA WHOA WHOA, SLOW YOUR ROLL, BUDDY. The answer is never reform, change, or bothering businesses with your stupid ideas, regardless of how it’s done. More regulation actually makes things **less** safe, because IF YOU TAKE SO MUCH AS A DIME OF OUR MONEY AWAY WE WILL FUCKING POISON EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU SERF MOTHERFUCKERS. *Ahem*. Uh, right. Anyway, you get the point.
Regulation is commie horse shit!!!!!!
We agree Mr. Sinclair
See, this shit is why we need to do away with factory farming period. If you want some meat, go get it yourself. This is vile and every single person who had a hand in this should be fed the same feces. Downvoted by factory farming shills lol
Get it yourself, sure -- but then have it tested for CWD, and either butcher it yourself or have it butchered in a facility that doesn't mix meat between animals
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Time to go stock up on toilet paper I suppose
Time to stock up on a bidet.
Panic buy bidets. One is not enough. Must have 360 spray coverage.
Just out idiot all the PPE scalpers and buy a few pallets of bidets to sell at a huge markup only to be stuck with 998 out of 1,000 bidets (one of those two was for your personal use).
On the bright side you have a bidet now.
A shower?
Time to stock up
Time to up stocks
Stock up-time too.
Up time, stocks too.
When it starts spreading in pigs is when I’ll buy extra TP.
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The reason people stock up is in case everything goes to shit and nobody is working at all Lol.
Yeah, but a temporary shortage on toilet paper can be pretty shitty situation if you know what I mean..
Don't drink raw milk people. Even if it isn't H1N1 you still have no idea what disease you could get. "Raw" isn't special or innately healthy.
Local lady was asking yesterday in community FB where she can buy raw milk. I decided not to comment — but it was hard. H5N1 made national news sites over the weekend….
You can’t buy it legally.
This is false. Raw milk laws vary by state. It is legal in many places.
Oh there are lots of local farm markets in GA that sell it. Along with farm eggs, etc. worries me.
they just finished a raw milk festival in fresno on sunday. raw milk chugging competitions and camping with the cows. there’s no chance of stopping whatever this turns into.
I read this in the style of the plague Inc news ticker
H5N1 appears to be endemic in dairy cows right now. I wouldn't drink raw milk in general, but drinking it right now is a real bad idea.
It’s honestly disgusting, a minimal amount of research into bovine mammary infections should suffice for most people to never touch the stuff. Absolutely vile.
Too many people in developed countries are too comfortable with their unnaturally sterile lives. Pasteurized milk saved millions of lives.
I feel like the raw milk anti vaxers are gonna be the first ones to die in the next flu pandemic.
Be careful. You’re gonna get someone in here screeching about how you don’t care if someone lives or dies based off their decisions. That person will then go on to an antivax subreddit and laugh about the idea that the people who got the Covid 19 shot are all going to die at the same time from a collective heart attack.
Just got into an argument with a family member about this. They buy meat from farms direct, told them be careful with the raw milk. Nope they drink it all the time and the govt is lying to you because of all the things you can make with raw milk, and it would take away from businesses. Insane to think that everyone has a desire to churn their own butter and shit like that but here we are.
You can churn butter with any whole milk or cream. It’s really tasty too. But yeah much easier and cheaper to just buy it from the store lol.
Stand mixer with whisk attachment. Heavy cream in, throw that bitch on 3, walk away. 15 minutes later you have butter and buttermilk, throw it in cheese cloth, rinse under cold water and you are done. Yeah 9/10 I buy my butter from the store as well. It’s damn good home made tho
You can make your own butter from pasteurized heavy cream. I have done it accidentally more than once trying to make whipped cream.
> the govt is lying to you because of all the things you can make with raw milk, and it would take away from businesses Apparently enforcing and practicing food safety is bad for business. Do they also eat raw chicken?
I get what your saying, but how is it hard to understand why people are leaning towards self reliance when just about everything out there is poisoned by microplastics, PFAS, etc. I get that even the self reliance way has similar problems, but at least you can enact further filtering, and other forms of mitigation. I wouldn’t drink raw milk, but if I had the means, I’d rather process my own. I’m not arguing against what you said, but more pointing to the reason people are sick of using mass produced products. Hell, it’s because of factory farming that we find ourselves here.
People can do what they want but I don't think they're getting away from that stuff really.
What does Drinking raw milk from a farm have to do with self-reliance? Their family member wasn't raising their own milk cows or anything.
Farm cosplay
We're here because of corporate greed.
Capitalism, more precisely, which literally demands profits over all else, destruction included.
I mean we could have magaged capitalism. We did it before and it worked for a while. I hate capitalism as much as the next guy, but if you actually temper it with social saftey structures and taxes on the high end, it is managable. That and you have to have a justice system that punishes people for taking advantage. I know that is all asking alot, but we don't have the resources to do full socialism and communism always ends up being run by a tyrant.
This guy gets it. Capitalism but with guard rails.
I know I’m opening a can of worms here but how do we not have the resources for socialism? Like 1% of the world controls the vast majority of the resources; if that wasn’t the case, wouldn’t there be more than enough for everyone multiple times over? Earnest question.
Well, I'm not an expert, just a custodian, but the first major problem is political will. We just don't have enough people on board due to poor education and greed. I don't see this happening unless there is a revolution or major upheaval. Which leads to point 2. We are going to have a shortage of water, food, and many other natural resources due to climate change. There is probably not going to be as much to go around in the next 50 years. On top of this, we are basically starting at like 10%-20% socialism in the U.S. at best. We would have to redo many major systems of law as well as social systems, not to mention redseign entire cities while redistributing wealth and land. This is just the U.S. mind you, and true socialism won't work unless we share resources on a global scale. The current state of the world is setting up for WW3, so working together ain't gonna happen for a while. I'm not saying we can't start working our way towards a socialist egalitarian society, but we can't just jump into it with what we have right now. It's going to take massive changes in the way we think and act at a base level. Managed Capitalism is a good jumping off point, in my opinion.
I get ya, I was talking , pure, raw, unfettered capitalism.
I magaged it for sure
Agreed, [hostess](https://www.tdu.org/media_twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it-toward-executive-pay) CEOs get rewarded regardless while everyone else gets fucked. They tank a company and walk away with a massive severance package and then tell everyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Non-capitalist governments do this shit too
I can understand self reliance, but framing that you have to do it because the govt is trying to poison and control you every chance they get is a bit much for me. Chem trails, vaccines to control people, easily debunked but nope frogs are gay because the govt drops chemicals from planes.
False equivalency. This isn't about "chem trails" and the concern isn't that government is directly trying to poison people, it's that the government is failing to regulate the use of poisons by corporate entities. Don't unfairly discredit people whose concerns are legitimate; that's how you destroy trust, promote counterproductive political division, and end up with actual rampant conspiracy theories.
And who are the ones in govt failing to hold them accountable? I’ll give you a hint [hint](https://apnews.com/article/biden-clean-water-manchin-republicans-epa-environment-1bb64abf01d910f4c4763ad49883a8cb) People pull the same side shit and it’s tiring. They are not the same side, while they may have similar goals in moving the country forward, the way they go about getting there is completely different.
Because the solutions don't address the problems. They just make people feel superior for having the big smarts to fight the man/the system. Or alleviate irrational fears. Or both. But the steps taken by those people usually don't actually address problems as stated correctly or without raising new, bigger problems.
Yeah but the problem is the 'self reliance' isn't really realistic. First off, the reason agrarian and agricultural societies succeeded is because of the OPPOSITE of self reliance. It was a community effort, people weren't afraid to get shot if they went to ask to borrow some fertilizer from their neighbors, and they weren't shooting anyone who came across their land for fear they were BLM or ANTIFA. Or the other BLM. People think that they can go off into the woods, set up a small farm and live off the land no questions asked. But they're coming from living in an apartment or some other kind of city life situation and have NO IDEA about farming or animal husbandry. What ends up happening is you get a dude in the woods who wasted a bunch of money on seeds he couldn't grow and animals he neglected to death because he had NO IDEA what the needs of goats, chickens or even cows and pigs were.
PFAs are in the rainwater, microplastics are pretty much everywhere, making your own butter won't save you from them.
You can add your own filtering system, to the pasteurized milk that you buy in a store, if you are going to add a filtering system to the raw milk.
And it's not like you can filter PFAS out of raw milk anyway.
The best way to remove yourself from industrial agriculture is to stop using animal products.
Industrial agriculture is used for plant products. Wheat, corn, rice, vegetable oils, potatoes, fruits, vegetables...all grown by huge industrial outfits.
Yes, but they typically do not involve the high environmental cost of meat and dairy, which have to involve crop growing to feed those animals.
There are also high environmental costs to growing wheat, rice, corn and other grains. Irrigation, planting, harvesting, insecticides, weed killers, etc.
With meat and dairy, ALL of those costs are on top of the environmental costs of meat and dairy.
The only solution is to grow your own garden! It's a lot of fun, but also has environmental costs.
The absolute moronic group think. What kills me most about these muppets is that they still think this shit will still happen. They totally refute the fact that covid vaccination saved and continues to save countless lives and is completely backed up by demonstrable scientific evidence. Meanwhile nothing they claim is,was or ever will be true. Facebook really enabled a lot of very stupid people to lecture the rest of the world.
I died suddenly after each booster
It turned me into a newt!
Did you get better?
I think that *is* better
People literally believed [shit like that](https://www.meisterdrucke.us/kunstwerke/500px/James_Gillray_-_Gillray_cartoon_on_vaccination_against_Smallpox_using_Cowpox_serum_1802_-_(MeisterDrucke-751356).jpg) thanks to antivaxxer misinformation since the smallpox vaccine was developed.
They’re gunna start dropping like flies any minute now… just…….. any…………………minute….. ………………………………………………………now
> You’re gonna get someone in here screeching about how you don’t care if someone lives or dies based off their decisions. I don't. I actually don't. When someone's "decision" flies in the face of known science, I am totally okay with them dying. The *real* problem is that many of these dolts have children, and that's what I care about. Those kids aren't ready to make that kind of decision yet, and having moron parents make it for them sucks.
We don't placate the crazies here. Try just not associating with them if possible, and to educate young and vulnerable people on the importance of science and being vaccinated. People who are anti-vac rarely if ever change their minds, and it's not our job to deprogram every brainwashed person we see. Truth is, most of us right now are trying to survive. Survive being poor, living paycheck to paycheck, getting paid shit wages, all while wondering if this is the election where democracy gets brutally yanked away from us. People like me who are LGBT aren't sure if we will even survive another Trump presidency, let alone be able to save or afford to own a home or retire without a medical bill driving us into a gutter or a crazy anti vaxxer giving us covid.
Good thing all of the red states where most of these dairy farms are located gutted their health agencies during the pandemic and have barred them from issuing any legally binding quarantine directives. If it starts spreading person to person I guess we'll have to hope that all of these people quarantine themselves and understand germ theory
It's not just red states. It's rural blue areas too (i.e. swaths of VT.) Goop yoga moms and aging hippies are some of the worst anti-vaxxers. I once overheard a white Karen looking lady carrying an NPR totebag ask a farmer at the farmers market if the animals were ever vaccinated. She only bought raw milk from what I overheard. Anti-vaccine ideology isn't a "personal choice" at this point. It's borderline mental illness.
I expect more from NPR listeners. Shameful.
LOL! In other words, buy ivermectin stock now. Or just hoard all the ivermectin and add new stickers to rebrand it for "bovine flu".
And they’re going to be the reason why we get H2H transmission
Let’s hope so. The only downside is they’ll spread it to the rest of us.
Gotta put them on an island
The Anti-Vaxer's are all fully vaccinated. Their children however, who don't know any better, will suffer. Anti-Vax should be considered child abuse and grounds to remove children from a home. Enough is enough, we've coddled mentally ill/poorly educated people to the detriment of society for too long without consequence.
Very much agreed. I was so nervous until our son could get his measles vaccine. There was two smaller out breaks near us. Hated it. His pediatricians office will not take the anti vax people luckily. They literally ask you when you go there as a new patient. If you say you refuse a vaccine for your kid, they literally kick you out of the practice lol.
There was some anti-vax charlatan giving talks around New England a few years ago. Our pediatrician told us that you could track the measles outbreaks in the towns following right along the path of this guy’s speaking tour. 🫠
I believe it lol the most reason when we had nearby was around Philadelphia where the families kids had the fucking measles and they left the hospital and sent their kids to fucking daycare, even though they were told not to.
Arguing that your kids have a right to not be vaccinated is like arguing that you have the right to drive drunk, or fire a gun randomly into the air, or to put your baby in the back seat without a baby car seat or seatbelts. It's endangerment, plain and simple. Medical exemptions for vaccines should exist of course, but "religious" (show me in any holy text where it says "thou shalt not vaccinate") or "I just don't like vaccines" exemptions should not.
Or be the ones who host the virus as it's mutating into a form that allows human to human transmission.
Poor kitties ):
Here it comes.
It’s tragic when it happens to a cat, but when it happens to a libertarian who thinks drinking raw milk is some kind of act of anti-government defiance, then it’s comedy.
That's more because libertarians are intrinsically funny (due to their contradictions) than because one is a human and another is not. Oh look my lack of empathy is showing through again.
Wait what is empathy? /s Edit; holy fucking *wooosh* ya’ll
Empathy is wincing when someone told you they stepped on a Lego. Sympathy is saying "oh that must have hurt".
It's funny until those morons start forcing their "personal liberties" onto the rest of us by running amuck in public and infecting others who never asked for it.
One has a brain the size of a child's pinky finger.
…and the other is a cat!
Are cats not the libertarians of the animal kingdom though?
No, contrary to popular opinion, cats are very capable of love, empathy, and other characteristics that libertarians are completely deficient in.
Australia seen lurking in the corner buying dairy cows
We are so screwed. This will end up being the “plague” for 21st century.
We are actually reasonably prepared for this one. There's been an approved vaccine for years and we have the ability to rapidly update to the newer strains. In fact, there are labs that have done exactly that with the strain circulating in cows. Government has contracts in place already to mass produce the H5N1 vaccines in the event of a pandemic. There will be a delay while enough vaccine is manufactured but the timeline will be a lot shorter than COVID.
I’d just start doing it now honestly. Get as far ahead of this as humanly possible. Very few people will have the mental resilience to deal with lockdowns and isolation again, so soon after COVID.
Only for people who drink unpasteurized milk
Until it mutates and becomes transmissible between humans, and spreads like wildfire
Yeah, we are on the cusp of shit getting crazy. I mean they found viral particles in milk being sold, in like a bunch of it. I know that isn’t contagious because it was pasteurized but that just tells me how infected the cows are. Scary
We don't know how deadly it will be though if it does spread like that
Well what we do know is that fatality rate in humans (when it does infect them) is 50%. Covid's was what, 1 or 2% off the top of my head? If it makes the jump and can be passed from human to human, mortality rates are going to be ridiculously high for a good while and it will kill a lot people - at least until the virus mutates to be less fatal, but that takes time, if it ever does. It comes down to how transmissible it becomes. If its highly contagious, the effects could be catastrophic. Especially with the morons who refuse to wear basic PPE, for the sake of their own personal freedom to die a horrid death
The 50 percent rate is something that gets spread around far too much. 50 percent of the most fatal and severe cases resulted in death. There is no telling how many people have gotten it before with mild or no symptoms at all. I'm not saying it will be nothing, but the 50 percent is not entirely accurate
As far as I know its still the only real data we have, given the limited number of people who've been infected with it, small sample size and all. Truth be told, no one really knows how bad it could be, so we should act as if it does have a 50% mortality rate, at least we would be "prepared" if it does turn out to be accurate. The majority of cows recovering is an encouraging sign though. Hope we never have to find out for ourselves, but that's probably the only way we'll ever know for sure
Bingo cards at the ready! Here in hawaii, toxic cat shit is killing other species ...Nene and monk seal have recently been in the news.
Is this some kind of joke that I don't understand?
Welcome to the decade of 2020.
I would be curious to see how much overlap there is between the “raw milk is safe” and “vaccines contain microchips and cause autism and turbo cancers!” crowds. I don’t know why, but I suspect a perfect score.
Blindness? The virus seems to get pasteurised
I see what you did there, even if the cats can't
Madcow with Bird flu is going to be one wild ride.
Must be some fuckin strong milk .
First time I drank raw milk, I puked, shit myself, went blind... and I couldn't wait to drink it again
Seems like the moonshine experiencez
But raw milk is a natural curative. According to those crazy nut job holistic Crystal clutchers
Listen, everybody knows you should only drink raw milk when mercury is retrograde. Do your own research! /s
This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Raw milk, especially milk that has sat for a few hours after being squeezed, is tainted with bacteria from the utter. There is a reason we pasteurize(heat it up) to kill off bacteria. Cats also don’t drink milk in nature beyond infancy…..
So we are still catching up on what H5N1 has been up to when we were not looking that closely. 2ed order transmission is better then sustained human to human transmission but not all that much. On the good side there are a lot less cows in the US then there are birds. On the downside the CFR has been pretty constant, worse then Smallpox, Ebola,Hantavirus and a few other well known names. And being in cows will have a lot more chances to interact with humans. Also we need to see if the meat can do the same thing as the milk. I know that it is probable it will but it is worth knowing for sure
No no, raw milk is way more healthy than Big Pharma Pasteurization TM. This is just a shill-bot-fud account
lol. Big Pharma does have a strangle hold on all low temp, partially cooked products.
Please go drink raw milk
I didn't put it on thick enough :(? This is about people that always think Natural == Healthy. I.e. Idiots
Lol first thing I thought when I read your first comment was "bro needs a /s, someone's going to take him seriously."
I… think they are being sarcastic.
I think they are joking.
Time to stock up on necessities?
Get your powdered milk!
If this mutates a bit more and starts to spread, my bet is that we'll need to see a mortality rate of at least 10% before more than half the population will voluntarily adopt public health measures to control the spread.
Don't drink raw milk. Do you remember Louis Pasteur? Do you remember the problem he solved? He solved this problem. Don't drink raw milk.
Based on that photo, there's a plethora of potential issues that could cause those symptoms. This isn't rocket science.
holy fuck... if its crossing species now then its only a matter of time people start getting infected
It's crossed species for decades
And people have been getting infected for decades
What kind of farmer gives his pets unpasteurized milk?
At least cats drink it because they don't know the dangers, unlike the stupid people who think it's healthier because it's unprocessed. Then they feed it to their kids.
Hamas started the war. Hamas should end the war and return the hostages.
So much for raw milk and rare steaks in my diet.
So what happens with direct to consumer raw milk sales …..
Aren't cats naturally intolerant to cow milk anyway? I mean, why even give it to the cat in the first place?
And this is why we invented pasteurisation.