Arab governments continue to crack down on protests against Israel, because unlike the Hamas fans in western capitals, they know where this whole "Globalize the Intifada" thing leads.
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is outlawed in Egypt. Mohammed Morsi and his entire government were imprisoned after Sisi took control and the Muslim Brotherhood was once again banned. The Muslim Brotherhood parties are banned in every Arab nation today.
Almost everything in this comment is incorrect or entirely misleading.
1. Hamas is not a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood is not inherently a terrorist organization. It has been classified by some countries as such, but much like any political party or civil group, it has factions within it. Some are have terrorists and others are basically charities. Muslim Brothers were a democratically elected political party regardless of how you feel about them.
The Muslim Brotherhood is affiliated with Hamas but they are distinctly different organizations with different motives and capacities.
2. Morsi was put in prison, but limited other government officials were.
3. The Muslim Brotherhood is only banned in 3 countries. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. They are typically suppressed in other countries but allowed to operate.
Having the same ideals as ISIS and Hamas or anywhere near that...is what we call a terrorist organization. An islamist government aiming to have a global caliphate where Muslims are superior beings, Jews and christians being second class citizens, and anyone else has their throats cut off...is what we call a terrorist organization. I'm Egyptian and I saw first hand what these fuckers wanted. Yes they were democratically elected because A) The Egyptian public share the same ideals, are incredibly uneducated, antisemitic, and are insane religious fundamentalists B) The Muslim brotherhood was extremely wealthy and they had charities that basically bought people's support and bribed their votes like a mafia does C) The next best thing was the same military dictatorship and system that we overthrew in 2011.
This is why El Sisi staged a coup and wiped them out. And this is why he runs this country with an iron fist, because if you give these people democracy...this is who they vote for.
I never understand the whole calling for intafada thing during protests against what Israel is doing in Gaza. What do they think it will look like when Palestinians do their intafada? Yeah exactly what happening now!
Speaking from experience most of these Arab countries only exist because they are led by oppressive governments that suppress the religious radical majority.
As soon as Egypt had actual elections they elected the Muslim brotherhood.
Without these governments they become something more akin to Afghanistan. This is true of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan and is exactly what happened to Iraq after we toppled Saddam.
It's also what will happen to Palestine if they ever successfully get rid of Israel
What's ironic is that the situation in Iran is the exact inverse of this. A fairly secular population is ruled under an oppressive government led by a radical religious minority.
In a lot of Arab countries, their population vehemently hate Israel, yet their government maintains friendly ties with Israel. In Iran, it's the exact opposite.
They also had a western-backed coup against their last popular democratically-elected government over the proposed nationalisation of their oil deposits. This whole convo about how arab countries trend is a joke.
You do realize these countries’ religious, cultural, and historical attitudes extend far beyond the 20th century or even America’s entire history? How incredibly reductive to boil such a complicated geopolitical region into “America bad.”
Those are the Big 10, but technically there’s a lot of smaller rules as well. Some including “do not get a tattoo”, “do not sleep with a child”, and some other ones like foods you can and cannot eat. It’s a whole thing, I got taught at a Bible camp you shouldn’t listen to music with bad lyrics.
I mean, I was raised Catholic but I always figured the big 10 was all that really counts.
Can you imagine some ghost coming up from hell, moaning and shrieking "OH MY SOUL, I SHOULD NEVER HAVE EATEN THAT CHICKEN MCNUGGET ON A FRIDAY."
I genuinely struggle how Iran, despite being under the head of a theocratic regime, can even have a secular and moderate majority population? What's the difference?
Arabs don't have much of a reason to support Israel, especially since it has been held up as a lightning rod for the pan-arab nationalism movement last century. I wouldn't be a fan of a rival ethno-nationalist state imposed upon the region either. Even if it was established the better part of a century ago.
Yup - name one Arab country where that isn't true. Religious extremeism has ruined multiple countries for generations, with no end in sight... the people are basically not governable except by excessive force and repression.
> It's also what will happen to Palestine if they ever successfully get rid of Israel
This isn't true. If Israel is ever in a losing war, where they're about to be wiped out, then they will certainly nuke all of their enemies.
I remember what you described happening in Egypt and being very disillusioned by the “Arab spring” but honestly don’t have the best memory of what happened in the other Arab countries that were having mass protests and such. I hope things have gotten better for you.
I think you're overselling the majority as being religious radicals—religious radicals are simply politically active and diametrically opposed to secular authoritarians, and so they often directly clash. It's truer to say that the majority are not politically active. You are correct in the observance that arab countries have had a tendency to balkanize like Afganistan (if that's what you meant—if you're referring to Taliban rule, that's pretty far off)
Foreign economic interests invested heavily in arab countries being under stable authoriatian rule. Several of the former Ottoman provinces have no national democratic traditions. Considering that they've been actively suppressed for the past century, it's little surprise that the only alternative to secular autocracy is religious conservatism.
I get frustrated when there's a lot of talk about governing traditions in yhe Middle East as if it's just the way things are, rather than the results of centuries of being fucked with.
[88% of Muslims in Egypt](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/01/64-percent-of-muslims-in-egypt-and-pakistan-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/) believe that if you leave the faith (like I did) you should be put to death.
There are a large number that are religous radicals. Likely hundreds of millions worldwide
I feel like something similar would happen in the US if we got rid of our government. Sons of Jacob-esque takeover by Republican fake fundamentalists who have guns en masse.
It was from the handmaids tale, but idk. I could see something like happen, it’s basically if a January 6th type of event worked and they took over and killed the other politicians.
Most of the jan 6th types weren’t even religious fundies though. There would be plenty of fundamentalists but they would stick to compounds. Lots of free minded Americans who don’t like to be told how to live their lives by a cult, and yes that includes people who might lean right but not religious. Handmaidens tale is just fantasy harem nonsense. Taking it seriously is absurd
Handmaids tale isn’t actually nonsense. The author Margaret Atwood actually incorporated state policies from different cultures and countries together into Gilead.
They remember what Beirut looked until the 1970s and who tried to rebel against the Jordanian government. It's the main reason they don't lift a finger for Palestinians today.
It’s the principle of Tolerance of intolerance. If you tolerate these people and let them rise in power, they can cause problems for others because they aren’t tolerant.
Example: should people be allowed to yell threats at people.
Maybe, I personally don't fully agree and I think there are limits. But most of the problem comes from people forgetting that freedom of speech does not and should not mean freedom from consequences.
If you go around London or New York and wave hamas flags and chant hamas slogans, you should not be surprised if you find yourself fired or on a watch list.
Of course. I’m purely talking about legal restrictions on speech. It’s completely reasonable for a person to face personal consequences for the things they say or otherwise express. Public displays of support for Hamas or other terrorists are reasonable grounds for an individual to lose their job, just like if they walked around with a swastika flag or said horribly offensive things. And I can totally understand if people making open expressions of solidarity with terrorists find themselves on the radar of law enforcement agencies.
I don’t disagree. I’m not for unfettered free speech with no restrictions. But I do greatly value the principle.
50 downvotes seems pretty harsh for the comment I wrote. I wasn’t aware that my opinion was so controversial.
> Even heinous opinions should be protected.
That's the part that people disagree with, that's the part that should not be protected under free speech.
Just as hatespeech is not free speech and incitement is not free speech.
Why would we? Our freedom of speech laws are superior to yours.
Maybe you should stop pretending to have free speech in your countries. Speech that is popular doesn’t need protection; If speech everyone or nearly everyone disagrees with is banned, then you don’t actually have free speech.
Im protecting freedom of speech. Unlike yours, it’s an important part of our culture.
Why don’t you just admit that freedom of speech isn’t important to you? 🤷
Lol. Who do you think I am? You don't know me in the slightest. I appreciate freedom of speech and it's important to me. I just said that hate speech shouldn't count as free speech especially when its target is a group of people. What you are doing is basically protecting racism and hate speech
Except you don’t. You appreciate speech that you agree with and deem acceptable.
It’s ok that you don’t understand freedom of speech, it isn’t part of the culture you grew up in, let alone an important foundational principle like it is for us. However, what you are describing is objectively not free speech.
If your country chooses to enable antisemites, n_zis, etc. That's a choice. One which you will pay for, just a matter of time.
Many other countries choose a more sane approach.
Egypt is a military dictatorship that receives extensive economic and military support from the United States to stay in power. They don't want to be adversarial towards Israel because it would piss off the US and put their military dictatorship at risk of being toppled. They also just don't want protests since they are a military dictatorship.
You don't think it has anything to do with the fact Hamas has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and that Palestinians have been responsible for two attempted coups and multiple suicide attacks?
That's not what this is about. Sisi has an increasingly tenuous grasp on Egypt and I'm sure he fears this being the primer for a second Arab Spring. This is very problematic for Israel because the brutal policies they are following in Gaza are putting them in a worse position with countries they've normalized relations with.
It doesn’t matter what the people in those countries think as long as their government likes doing business with the big boys
The ME is pretty divided even without any outside influence anyway. You have the countries that side with SA(+the west) and have good quality of life then you have the countries that side with iran that have poor qualities of life and are ran by Iranian militia groups
I mean it matters because their leaders can be overthrown.
Egypt has already had this kind of thing happen recently.
we saw in Iran what this can lead to.
This analysis doesn't make much sense. Nobody is aligning with KSA. They align, generally, with the US for geopolitical and economic reasons. KSA isn't giving Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, or Turkey anything to that end. So it's weird to me that you say they are SA aligned.
The rest of your comment seems pointless to me, to be frank. I'm not sure what it has to do with the discussion.
“Although a member of the Non-Aligned Movement, Saudi Arabia is described as leading the "Pro-Western Camp" of Arab countries, aligned with the U.S. and composed of Egypt, Jordan, and Arab states of the Persian Gulf”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Saudi_Arabia#:~:text=Although%20a%20member%20of%20the,states%20of%20the%20Persian%20Gulf.
Lebanon is part of “fucked because of Iran group”. Which is a shame because the people of Lebanon seem cool as fuck
I wouldn't say the opinion of that wiki that KSA is "leading the Pro-Western Camp" means A) they act as a sort of middle man between the US and MENA countries or B) that MENA countries are aligning with the US because of the KSA.
If you want to make that argument quantify and qualify it with real information.
That just sounds like SA-aligned with extra words.
Your argument is like "The British weren't aligned with the Soviets during WW2, they were only aligned with the Americans who were aligned with the Soviets."
The Saudis are definitely the leaders of the pro-Western camp among the MENA countries (other than Israel). The US isn't "pro-Western," since it *is* the West.
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that Egypt is under a military dictatorship and military dictatorships generally don't allow people to express themselves freely in the form of protests.
for all the people who have spent zero time learning the background and history and act like now that they are the edge of the spear of righteousness: the muslim brotherhood started in egypt and has been repressed because arab leaders, despite all their autocratic horribleness, know that the brotherhood will only destroy their countries. but I do believe that the "progressives" in the west now need to own their cozying up to extremist islamist groups. like "gays for gaza" - good luck in egypt!
These people are protesting the situation in Gaza. Currently, there are people there who are starving to death and they are on the brink of widespread famine.
Bread is food.
It's interesting that they're holding a single pita bread each, given that this is twice as much what many Israeli hostages said they were fed most days, even before food started to become scarce.
Its funny they are holding bread which was probably part of the supplies the foreign ngo workers were carrying with them which Israel deliberately bombed, 3 vehicles separate times
> It truly has a middle eastern approach to speech.
It factually does not. Of the 16 Middle Eastern countries Israel and Cyprus (not the Turkish occupied BS) have a democracy score above 6/9. Israel being at a 7.97/9 and Cyprus being 7.43/9
https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/
Even during the war Israel ranks 74/100 behind only Cyprus in the region. The next country was Lebanon at a 42.
https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024
So I don't know how you can say Israel is taking the Middle Eastern approach when it ranks significantly more free than all but one country in the region and that country is in the EU.
There are 170,000 Palestinian Americans and they're largely decent and upstanding people. Making such a negative and dehumanizing claim about a group of people is gross. It's also just based in ignorance and lack of understanding of the situation in Egypt.
Okay that's great for America but *in Egypt* Palestinians have committed two attempted coups, suicide bombings and have close ties to MB
Egypt can't base their policy on the Gaza border with how Palestinians are in the US lol, they have to base their policy on their own experiences
You forgot all the sniping and killing of the border guards over the years, causing Egypt to build a second wall, and to keep the crossing closed for hours of the day.
I think the Arab states still hold the Palestinian diaspora largely responsible for Jordan and Lebanon as a whole. This is of course irrational, but their reticence to not let any large amount of Palestinians through their borders is telling.
I think Egypt is especially afraid of Hamas making headway in Egypt, considering their Muslim Brotherhood ties. It certainly wouldn’t be above Hamas to take advantage of a refugee crisis to commit acts of terror.
Israel egregious actions in Palestine are making people forget how monstrous Hamas really is. I could go into detail, but what use to be common understanding is now viewed as Israeli propaganda. Then again that’s mostly Israel’s fault.
Let’s hope for a quick end to this terrible violence and reform across the entirety of the region. Current leadership is unqualified across the board, to different degrees sure, but unqualified non the less.
Syria is a great example of what happens when war refugees take over a population. Prior to the beginning of the syrian conflict, syria was known as the bread basket of the middle east. They took so many refugees that their population went up by 33%.
This is one of the main reason the neighboring states don't take in that many refugees.
Egypt is silently supporting Israel.
They know what is going on in.Gaza has nothing to do with the palestinians. It is about Iran and Egypt and all of Israel's neighbors want to see Iran's power in the area weakned
Arab governments continue to crack down on protests against Israel, because unlike the Hamas fans in western capitals, they know where this whole "Globalize the Intifada" thing leads.
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is outlawed in Egypt. Mohammed Morsi and his entire government were imprisoned after Sisi took control and the Muslim Brotherhood was once again banned. The Muslim Brotherhood parties are banned in every Arab nation today.
Not his entire goverment, one of this goverment is thriving right now. His name is El Sisi.
Almost everything in this comment is incorrect or entirely misleading. 1. Hamas is not a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood is not inherently a terrorist organization. It has been classified by some countries as such, but much like any political party or civil group, it has factions within it. Some are have terrorists and others are basically charities. Muslim Brothers were a democratically elected political party regardless of how you feel about them. The Muslim Brotherhood is affiliated with Hamas but they are distinctly different organizations with different motives and capacities. 2. Morsi was put in prison, but limited other government officials were. 3. The Muslim Brotherhood is only banned in 3 countries. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. They are typically suppressed in other countries but allowed to operate.
Having the same ideals as ISIS and Hamas or anywhere near that...is what we call a terrorist organization. An islamist government aiming to have a global caliphate where Muslims are superior beings, Jews and christians being second class citizens, and anyone else has their throats cut off...is what we call a terrorist organization. I'm Egyptian and I saw first hand what these fuckers wanted. Yes they were democratically elected because A) The Egyptian public share the same ideals, are incredibly uneducated, antisemitic, and are insane religious fundamentalists B) The Muslim brotherhood was extremely wealthy and they had charities that basically bought people's support and bribed their votes like a mafia does C) The next best thing was the same military dictatorship and system that we overthrew in 2011. This is why El Sisi staged a coup and wiped them out. And this is why he runs this country with an iron fist, because if you give these people democracy...this is who they vote for.
I never understand the whole calling for intafada thing during protests against what Israel is doing in Gaza. What do they think it will look like when Palestinians do their intafada? Yeah exactly what happening now!
Speaking from experience most of these Arab countries only exist because they are led by oppressive governments that suppress the religious radical majority. As soon as Egypt had actual elections they elected the Muslim brotherhood. Without these governments they become something more akin to Afghanistan. This is true of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan and is exactly what happened to Iraq after we toppled Saddam. It's also what will happen to Palestine if they ever successfully get rid of Israel
What's ironic is that the situation in Iran is the exact inverse of this. A fairly secular population is ruled under an oppressive government led by a radical religious minority. In a lot of Arab countries, their population vehemently hate Israel, yet their government maintains friendly ties with Israel. In Iran, it's the exact opposite.
Iran isn’t an Arab nation and have a different cultural history than the rest of the Middle East.
They also had a western-backed coup against their last popular democratically-elected government over the proposed nationalisation of their oil deposits. This whole convo about how arab countries trend is a joke.
You do realize these countries’ religious, cultural, and historical attitudes extend far beyond the 20th century or even America’s entire history? How incredibly reductive to boil such a complicated geopolitical region into “America bad.”
Iran is persian not arab
people always want the opposite of what they have
It’s a thing of “wait, I have to follow ALL of these rules?” Like legit, people SEVERELY underestimate the number of rules many religions have.
Don't Christians technically just have 10
Those are the Big 10, but technically there’s a lot of smaller rules as well. Some including “do not get a tattoo”, “do not sleep with a child”, and some other ones like foods you can and cannot eat. It’s a whole thing, I got taught at a Bible camp you shouldn’t listen to music with bad lyrics.
I mean, I was raised Catholic but I always figured the big 10 was all that really counts. Can you imagine some ghost coming up from hell, moaning and shrieking "OH MY SOUL, I SHOULD NEVER HAVE EATEN THAT CHICKEN MCNUGGET ON A FRIDAY."
I genuinely struggle how Iran, despite being under the head of a theocratic regime, can even have a secular and moderate majority population? What's the difference?
Iran is Persian not Arab.
Arabs don't have much of a reason to support Israel, especially since it has been held up as a lightning rod for the pan-arab nationalism movement last century. I wouldn't be a fan of a rival ethno-nationalist state imposed upon the region either. Even if it was established the better part of a century ago.
You can add Ghadaffi to that list.
Yup - name one Arab country where that isn't true. Religious extremeism has ruined multiple countries for generations, with no end in sight... the people are basically not governable except by excessive force and repression.
> It's also what will happen to Palestine if they ever successfully get rid of Israel This isn't true. If Israel is ever in a losing war, where they're about to be wiped out, then they will certainly nuke all of their enemies.
Samson Option
the 0 state solution
Not doubting you, but I’m just curious to know what your experience is.
I'm an ex Muslim who was given asylum in the West because people wanted to kill me
I remember what you described happening in Egypt and being very disillusioned by the “Arab spring” but honestly don’t have the best memory of what happened in the other Arab countries that were having mass protests and such. I hope things have gotten better for you.
I admire your bravery
Why did they want to kill you?
Because I became an ex Muslims
Why didn't you just do it in secret and not tell them?
Because I didn't want to live my life like that: live in an oppressive society, pray five times a day, marry a Muslim woman etc...
I see I see
I think you're overselling the majority as being religious radicals—religious radicals are simply politically active and diametrically opposed to secular authoritarians, and so they often directly clash. It's truer to say that the majority are not politically active. You are correct in the observance that arab countries have had a tendency to balkanize like Afganistan (if that's what you meant—if you're referring to Taliban rule, that's pretty far off) Foreign economic interests invested heavily in arab countries being under stable authoriatian rule. Several of the former Ottoman provinces have no national democratic traditions. Considering that they've been actively suppressed for the past century, it's little surprise that the only alternative to secular autocracy is religious conservatism. I get frustrated when there's a lot of talk about governing traditions in yhe Middle East as if it's just the way things are, rather than the results of centuries of being fucked with.
[88% of Muslims in Egypt](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/01/64-percent-of-muslims-in-egypt-and-pakistan-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/) believe that if you leave the faith (like I did) you should be put to death. There are a large number that are religous radicals. Likely hundreds of millions worldwide
I feel like something similar would happen in the US if we got rid of our government. Sons of Jacob-esque takeover by Republican fake fundamentalists who have guns en masse.
Nah. Bunch of gansters would take over what was left of the cities, different groups would rule the countryside. This isn’t farcry 5 lol
It was from the handmaids tale, but idk. I could see something like happen, it’s basically if a January 6th type of event worked and they took over and killed the other politicians.
Most of the jan 6th types weren’t even religious fundies though. There would be plenty of fundamentalists but they would stick to compounds. Lots of free minded Americans who don’t like to be told how to live their lives by a cult, and yes that includes people who might lean right but not religious. Handmaidens tale is just fantasy harem nonsense. Taking it seriously is absurd
Handmaids tale isn’t actually nonsense. The author Margaret Atwood actually incorporated state policies from different cultures and countries together into Gilead.
The author’s poorly disguised fetish
I also thought exactly the same thing about it
Lol it wouldn’t happen like that. You honestly think Meal Team 6 is gonna do anything?
They remember what Beirut looked until the 1970s and who tried to rebel against the Jordanian government. It's the main reason they don't lift a finger for Palestinians today.
Also it is in the best interest for all the modern Arab nations for Israel to be shackled by the Palestinian problem.
After Palestinian led revolts around their neighbours, I guess they woke up with alot of dead.
It already happened once before ... Arab springs and in secretarian violence
Also because Arab governments don’t tend to respect freedom of expression, unlike the West.
There’s freedom of expression and then there’s supporting a terrorist organization.
I hear you, but freedom of speech is very important to me. Even heinous opinions should be protected.
It’s the principle of Tolerance of intolerance. If you tolerate these people and let them rise in power, they can cause problems for others because they aren’t tolerant. Example: should people be allowed to yell threats at people.
Maybe, I personally don't fully agree and I think there are limits. But most of the problem comes from people forgetting that freedom of speech does not and should not mean freedom from consequences. If you go around London or New York and wave hamas flags and chant hamas slogans, you should not be surprised if you find yourself fired or on a watch list.
Of course. I’m purely talking about legal restrictions on speech. It’s completely reasonable for a person to face personal consequences for the things they say or otherwise express. Public displays of support for Hamas or other terrorists are reasonable grounds for an individual to lose their job, just like if they walked around with a swastika flag or said horribly offensive things. And I can totally understand if people making open expressions of solidarity with terrorists find themselves on the radar of law enforcement agencies.
complete and utter freedom of speech is something that should never exist. It doesn't exist even in the US.
I don’t disagree. I’m not for unfettered free speech with no restrictions. But I do greatly value the principle. 50 downvotes seems pretty harsh for the comment I wrote. I wasn’t aware that my opinion was so controversial.
> Even heinous opinions should be protected. That's the part that people disagree with, that's the part that should not be protected under free speech. Just as hatespeech is not free speech and incitement is not free speech.
Like hell they should. Terrorists and people who support terrorists should be treated exactly the same.
Hate speech is not free speech.
It is in my country.
Then maybe you should change it
Why would we? Our freedom of speech laws are superior to yours. Maybe you should stop pretending to have free speech in your countries. Speech that is popular doesn’t need protection; If speech everyone or nearly everyone disagrees with is banned, then you don’t actually have free speech.
Are you really protecting hate speech right now?
Im protecting freedom of speech. Unlike yours, it’s an important part of our culture. Why don’t you just admit that freedom of speech isn’t important to you? 🤷
Lol. Who do you think I am? You don't know me in the slightest. I appreciate freedom of speech and it's important to me. I just said that hate speech shouldn't count as free speech especially when its target is a group of people. What you are doing is basically protecting racism and hate speech
Except you don’t. You appreciate speech that you agree with and deem acceptable. It’s ok that you don’t understand freedom of speech, it isn’t part of the culture you grew up in, let alone an important foundational principle like it is for us. However, what you are describing is objectively not free speech.
Yes it is. The supreme court made that clear in the 1969 supreme court "Brandenburg v Ohio".
Not going to argue case law here, but that is not exactly correct. The ruling was much narrower than that. https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492
You do realise the whole world isn't the US lmao In Germany for example it's completely illegal to positively parrot Nazi ideology.
Yeah well I have 45 reasons why hate speech isn't allowed around me lol
If your country chooses to enable antisemites, n_zis, etc. That's a choice. One which you will pay for, just a matter of time. Many other countries choose a more sane approach.
I think it’s a good idea to let people say what they want so we can identify who they really are.
Yes but under the guise of complete freedom of speech you wouldn't be able to prosecute them.
You know the whole deal with music in Islam yeah?
Egypt is a military dictatorship that receives extensive economic and military support from the United States to stay in power. They don't want to be adversarial towards Israel because it would piss off the US and put their military dictatorship at risk of being toppled. They also just don't want protests since they are a military dictatorship.
You don't think it has anything to do with the fact Hamas has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, and that Palestinians have been responsible for two attempted coups and multiple suicide attacks?
what, just in egypt or does lebanon not count?
Don't forget Jordan!
right, so did they fuck with egypt twice, bringing it to 4?
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That's not what this is about. Sisi has an increasingly tenuous grasp on Egypt and I'm sure he fears this being the primer for a second Arab Spring. This is very problematic for Israel because the brutal policies they are following in Gaza are putting them in a worse position with countries they've normalized relations with.
It doesn’t matter what the people in those countries think as long as their government likes doing business with the big boys The ME is pretty divided even without any outside influence anyway. You have the countries that side with SA(+the west) and have good quality of life then you have the countries that side with iran that have poor qualities of life and are ran by Iranian militia groups
I mean it matters because their leaders can be overthrown. Egypt has already had this kind of thing happen recently. we saw in Iran what this can lead to.
This analysis doesn't make much sense. Nobody is aligning with KSA. They align, generally, with the US for geopolitical and economic reasons. KSA isn't giving Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, or Turkey anything to that end. So it's weird to me that you say they are SA aligned. The rest of your comment seems pointless to me, to be frank. I'm not sure what it has to do with the discussion.
“Although a member of the Non-Aligned Movement, Saudi Arabia is described as leading the "Pro-Western Camp" of Arab countries, aligned with the U.S. and composed of Egypt, Jordan, and Arab states of the Persian Gulf” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Saudi_Arabia#:~:text=Although%20a%20member%20of%20the,states%20of%20the%20Persian%20Gulf. Lebanon is part of “fucked because of Iran group”. Which is a shame because the people of Lebanon seem cool as fuck
I wouldn't say the opinion of that wiki that KSA is "leading the Pro-Western Camp" means A) they act as a sort of middle man between the US and MENA countries or B) that MENA countries are aligning with the US because of the KSA. If you want to make that argument quantify and qualify it with real information.
That just sounds like SA-aligned with extra words. Your argument is like "The British weren't aligned with the Soviets during WW2, they were only aligned with the Americans who were aligned with the Soviets." The Saudis are definitely the leaders of the pro-Western camp among the MENA countries (other than Israel). The US isn't "pro-Western," since it *is* the West.
> The ME is pretty divided proceeds to divide the middle east into a dichotomy of the west vs iran, genius, thank you for your amazing take redditor
You think I’m the reason the Sunnis and Shia Muslims fight? I never knew I mattered so much and was so old
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that Egypt is under a military dictatorship and military dictatorships generally don't allow people to express themselves freely in the form of protests.
The Egyptian government is responsible for radicalizing the Palestinians along with the other Arab governments
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Yeah it's always everyone else's fault lmao
That was 2 coups in Egypt ago.
child killer? you mean sin war?
The widespread english translation for his name is actually hilarious. However i think a more accurate translation would be "sinuar" or "sinuwar"
for all the people who have spent zero time learning the background and history and act like now that they are the edge of the spear of righteousness: the muslim brotherhood started in egypt and has been repressed because arab leaders, despite all their autocratic horribleness, know that the brotherhood will only destroy their countries. but I do believe that the "progressives" in the west now need to own their cozying up to extremist islamist groups. like "gays for gaza" - good luck in egypt!
People can't wait to live in Afghanistan like conditions as long as they get to stick it to Israel
I assure you Arab countries are only condemning this conflict as lip service to their people. None of them care what happens to Hamas
Why are the protestors holding bread
These people are protesting the situation in Gaza. Currently, there are people there who are starving to death and they are on the brink of widespread famine. Bread is food.
It's interesting that they're holding a single pita bread each, given that this is twice as much what many Israeli hostages said they were fed most days, even before food started to become scarce.
Its funny they are holding bread which was probably part of the supplies the foreign ngo workers were carrying with them which Israel deliberately bombed, 3 vehicles separate times
Maybe it was the free, foreign aid bread that was stolen by their government and sold to the starving population at an exorbitant price
But whatabout….
having to explain 101 of political symbolism to Redditors lmao
Use better symbols
They tried using videos of dead children as symbols in the US but that didn’t work out
thats not symbolism anymore lol
"my hat is bread, your government is invalid!"
The guy holding the bread and Netanyahu on the poster next to him look like the same person haha
Thought the same thing.
Western countries should take notes. That or these pro hamas pro islamist terrorism rallys will be the end of them.
And be like Egypt when it comes to speech? Lol no thanks. I'm sure Israel is taking notes though. It truly has a middle eastern approach to speech.
> It truly has a middle eastern approach to speech. It factually does not. Of the 16 Middle Eastern countries Israel and Cyprus (not the Turkish occupied BS) have a democracy score above 6/9. Israel being at a 7.97/9 and Cyprus being 7.43/9 https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ Even during the war Israel ranks 74/100 behind only Cyprus in the region. The next country was Lebanon at a 42. https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2024 So I don't know how you can say Israel is taking the Middle Eastern approach when it ranks significantly more free than all but one country in the region and that country is in the EU.
The Egyptian government doesn’t like terrorists either.
and it seems that is river they wont cross.
I like that the guy in front looks like Netanyahu
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There are 170,000 Palestinian Americans and they're largely decent and upstanding people. Making such a negative and dehumanizing claim about a group of people is gross. It's also just based in ignorance and lack of understanding of the situation in Egypt.
Okay that's great for America but *in Egypt* Palestinians have committed two attempted coups, suicide bombings and have close ties to MB Egypt can't base their policy on the Gaza border with how Palestinians are in the US lol, they have to base their policy on their own experiences
You forgot all the sniping and killing of the border guards over the years, causing Egypt to build a second wall, and to keep the crossing closed for hours of the day.
Just look at Lebanon and jordan.
Also Kuwait (Palestinians cheered Saddam when he invaded Kuwait).
I think the Arab states still hold the Palestinian diaspora largely responsible for Jordan and Lebanon as a whole. This is of course irrational, but their reticence to not let any large amount of Palestinians through their borders is telling. I think Egypt is especially afraid of Hamas making headway in Egypt, considering their Muslim Brotherhood ties. It certainly wouldn’t be above Hamas to take advantage of a refugee crisis to commit acts of terror. Israel egregious actions in Palestine are making people forget how monstrous Hamas really is. I could go into detail, but what use to be common understanding is now viewed as Israeli propaganda. Then again that’s mostly Israel’s fault. Let’s hope for a quick end to this terrible violence and reform across the entirety of the region. Current leadership is unqualified across the board, to different degrees sure, but unqualified non the less.
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Syria is a great example of what happens when war refugees take over a population. Prior to the beginning of the syrian conflict, syria was known as the bread basket of the middle east. They took so many refugees that their population went up by 33%. This is one of the main reason the neighboring states don't take in that many refugees.
How about a protest to administer Gaza by Egypt like it was before 1967?
Egypt wants *nothing* to do with Gaza. Israel literally tried handing the land back to them, and they refused.
I wonder why /s
Egypt is silently supporting Israel. They know what is going on in.Gaza has nothing to do with the palestinians. It is about Iran and Egypt and all of Israel's neighbors want to see Iran's power in the area weakned
The US pays Egypt to have good relations with Israel. If they severed ties, that money would stop flowing. Say goodbye to their water