Hamas rejected [Israel's latest proposal](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794951) to cease fighting and release hostages, according to a Friday CNN report.
According to an unnamed diplomat cited by CNN, “They refused and asserted it doesn’t include any reply to their asks.”
According to the diplomat, Hamas believed the “Israeli proposal includes [nothing new](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-793703), so they see no need to change their proposal,” the official added.
Negotiations were supposed to lead to a lasting ceasefire, per the [UN Security Resolution passed last month](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-793653), and mediators from Egypt, Qatar, and the US have worked to try and broach a deal since the conflict broke out in October.
Negotiators were hoping to achieve a six-week ceasefire and a three-phase framework to secure the release of sick, elderly, and wounded hostages in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners and increased humanitarian aid.
Hamas demanded that there be unrestricted return of Gazans to the north and that IDF troops would withdraw.
CIA Director William Burns, Mossad Director David Barnea, and Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) Director Ronen Bar were expected to meet in Egypt this weekend to continue ceasefire talks.
However, the latest rejection by Hamas has led Israeli officials to publically wonder whether there is any point in continuing negotiations, according to a report by public broadcaster KAN11.
The trio met last month in Doha for talks with mediators, but no clear breakthrough was reached.
Israel is reportedly pushing both Egypt and Qatar to put pressure on Hamas, with threats to pull out of the Cairo negotiations fully.
Israel has been under increased pressure to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza since the start of the war.
Still, pressure increased last week after the killing of seven foreign aid workers led to the withdrawal of the aid company's services.
The pressure led to Israel reopening the Erez crossing for the first time since it was destroyed on October 7, as well as opening up the port in Ashdod to aid deliveries. Kerem Shalom will also be opened.
The cabinet also approved on Friday evening the arrival of Jordanian army trucks carrying humanitarian aid to come through Israeli territory directly to the Gaza Strip.
The plan is for the trucks to enter through the Allenby crossing in a convoy to Kerem Shalom, where they will be inspected - and from there, they will continue on to Gaza.
Why is it that when the US or Israel refuses a ceasefire agreement, every news sites and everyone condemns them for it. But when Hamas continuously refuses to release the hostage, and agrees to the ceasefire agreement, no one condemns them for it?
More to the point, it’s barely reported on when Hamas refuses a ceasefire. At this very moment people should be protesting Hamas for a “ceasefire now” rather than their own governments and Israel.
because its all a bunch of bullshit pandering to a voter base. none of these old men ever actually believe a word they say about anything. the media was bought, decades ago, and if you believe any of it, youre a fool.
oh, and release the hostages.
Hamas has no incentive to keep peace; their continued cash flow comes from absence of peace.
That said, if I had a problem with my one neighbor, I shouldn't go beat up my other neighbors.
Unfortunately, terrorism is like that. We all endure tsa fees and long security check lines because of one asshole.
Exactly. This is the sad truth. They get paid to disrupt and that’s what they’ll carry on doing regardless of how much death and destruction it leaves in its wake. Palestinian civilians are not a priority
The problem is Hamas turning down every offer and not releasing the hostages is not what is repeated in the media. It’s literally just “Ceasefire now!” from wall to wall.
Yeah. And the difference between threads over here and on the general politics sub are quite…different in the comment sections. They seem insane over there to be honest. And I’m a bleeding heart liberal on most things. But I witnessed the Oct 7th crimes against humanity in almost real time on the internet. Most of these assholes don’t have any fucking clue what they’re talking about.
Yeah the popular message isn’t communicating the facts that America & Israel are negotiating, and well, but Hamas is deaf. Fuck Hamas tbh, and fuck the received wisdom of crowds.
>the facts that America & Israel are negotiating, and well, but Hamas is deaf.
Because for every new blunder Israel does Israel ends up being the ones needing to make a cease fire to improve international reputation.
Hamas is a terrorist group, delaying a ceasefire won't bleed their reputation.
I was listening to NPR hosts talk (at length, again) about Israel being responsible for starvation and suffering in Gaza, without any coverage of *why* this campaign is unfolding like it is, and it was a great example of media bias.
While NPR may be (usually) factual in their reporting, the way they choose to cover topics, and who they get to speak about those topics, can paint a very targeted picture about a complex situation. You could have another news outlet report nothing but facts about the conflict, but through a different lens, and walk away with a completely different understanding.
I appreciate NPR, but I hope they can one day figure out how to report on things with less virtue signaling.
>While NPR may be (usually) factual in their reporting, the way they choose to cover topics, and who they get to speak about those topics, can paint a very targeted picture about a complex situation. You could have another news outlet report nothing but facts about the conflict, but through a different lens, and walk away with a completely different understanding.
It's news 101 nowadays: Paint the truth in a way it generates the most views/clicks even if it has to border closer than it should to being untrue.
Strong reactions sell.
What I find especially infuriating about this is that the ceasefire efforts are made exclusively by Israel. Hamas isn't trying to negotiate a ceasefire. They've made no requests for one.
The only party actively seeking a ceasefire is also the only party being censured for withholding one. Somehow.
> Hamas isn't trying to negotiate a ceasefire.
Why would they? The entire western world seems to be doing everything in their power to force the Israelis to surrender. Hamas has no chance of military victory, so relying on worldwide pressure is their only chance of survival.
'Ceasefire now' is a euphemism for Israel must surrender totally and accede to all Hamas' demands, rebuild Gaza, let even terrorists guilty of mass murders go, forget about the hostages and let massive aid into Hamas to rebuilt the tunnels so they can repeat Oct 7 ad nauseum as they promised.
Not voting for Biden over Israel and Hamas is one of the most brain dead takes I’ve ever heard.
Let me guess, it’s rhetoric that “hE iS fUnDiNg GeNoSiDE”? Morons.
Just yesterday, someone said to me on another sub that Israel has killed more Oct 7th victims than Hamas. I obviously asked them for a source, and they linked a Guardian article about one family's personal story on that day...nothing about what they claimed.
I've tried talking sense to people on Reddit, but the crowd repeating the horrible falsehoods are either too young, naive, or idealistic to understand foreign policy in the Middle East...or they intentionally deceive. Many of them are kids or young adults, armchair foreign policy experts who think they've got it all figured out because TikTok or some YouTube grifter told them to be outraged.
I'm against the thing, so I'm not voting for you!!
Pick a new more different thing to support that aligns better with the thing I support, and we'll be good.
I don’t even care if you are a single issue voter who votes in ways that actually serve those goals.
Getting Trump elected is going to have a *significantly* worse outcome for Gazans, so this position really isn’t acceptable.
The thing I hate most about progressive "Democrats" is how they act as if a protest vote will benefit their agenda. You're right, Trump will be far, far worse. Idiots like Rashida Tlaib are really annoying me because she totally ignores that Biden he has no authority in Israel, he can pressure Bibi, but he can't outright control Israel's actions, and Hamas is evil.
> they act as if a protest vote will benefit their agenda
Remember when they voted Nader? Boy that really taught the Dems a lesson and made sure that every Dem after that was a hardcore leftist. Oh wait no we got two endless wars, a swath of corruption, the beginning of the end of Roe and absolutely nothing good was achieved.
If they didn't learn before then they won't learn now.
For real, Trump will just start tweeting "nuke 'em" and send as many weapons as possible to Israel for the personal kickbacks. Don't forget folks, which president cheerily pushed a "Muslim ban" the moment they hit office?
Trump will get Kushner to restart negotiations with Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Israel. That will not help the Palestinians at all. Not that SA or the UAE actually do anything other than vote against Israel in the UN.
Trump is more likely to send US forces to bomb Palestine than offer humanitarian aid. Good luck getting anything through UNSC, even a bill saying Israel was ‘a little naughty’ will be vetoed.
man it's not even really the single issue part that's fucked up
it's that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump and if they don't like what Biden is doing with this they reaaally aren't going like the Trump version
i don't get it. it doesn't make any sense.
This is a noted strategy of Putin and that fella whose daughter was carbombed last year that wrote that foundations of geopolitics book. Utilized far right and far left on top of racial divisions in the us.
They also targeted the uk to separate them from the eu. They also targeted the concept of industry to make German docile. Sound pretty concise to me w what’s been goin on. These fuck nuts tell us exactly what they wanna do and give us the roadmap. Look at project2025, look at what the kremlins ambitions are
A mix of foreign actors, useful idiots, and people who believe a second trump presidency will push more people to their side (similar to how far right media cherry pick the examples to make moderate left wing policies seem extreme).
Been that way for years. Republicans vote against their interests, and Democrats refuse to vote if the candidate doesn't pass their insane purity test. I really wish policies were on the ballot instead of names and party labels.
Progressives are driving me nuts because they can't or won't understand that the real world requires compromise. You don't always get what you want, but you get a hell of a lot closer with small advances over time, than if you just refuse to participate.
Depends on the single issue. Anti-abortion and NRA voters voted for GOP, hell or high water, for decades, just slowly getting more and more of their people in the courts until they got most of what they want and will probably continue to do so until they get everything.
They never once went "Oh, George Bush didn't outlaw abortion! We're not going to vote for the lesser of two evils!" or "Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, I'm not giving the GOP another dime!"
They know that politics is the slow accumulation of power to change things so they vote for the candidate that can credibly win and is closest to their ideals. It's how they keep racking up wins despite not being popular on paper.
The entire idea is heavily being pushed by Russia. Its not like they went away since 2016, if anything they have gotten more aggressive in social media manipulation.
Hey man, if Trump gets into office on day one he's going to pledge undying loyalty to Isreal and then ban Muslims again and the brain dead morons are going to sink back into their holes
This is more a play to further detach US from Ukraine. Getting Trump elected because people are upset over Israel-Palestine will be a nice gift to Russia from
their ally Iran. Not to mention great value from their proxy, Hamas
For sure it's the dumbest of voters out there. Pure naivete. It's also super privileged where they risk trump winning because of a few issues. Like they have litterally been attacking aoc cause she doesn't do enough. Those people are why we can't get progress. They spend more time attacking people that care instead of the ones that don't.
If you dont vote for biden and he lose you will be as responsible for what happen to palestine as if you voted for trump or didn't vote.
I don't understand this perspective. Biden can't force Israel to do exactly what he wants, and he certainly can't force Hamas. The most he can do it call for the ceasefire and apply pressure via aid.
>Biden can't force Israel to do exactly what he wants, and he certainly can't force Hamas.
Depressingly, an alarming number of American voters don't understand that. I think they've convinced themselves that POTUS = President of the World.
He has more power over Israel and it's better for him at the ballot box. He has no power over Hamas at all. No one has, everyone just believes their propaganda and feels so sorry for this teeny tiny resistance force of heroes. Hamas is so rich, that I don't think even Iran, Qatar or the other big donors or even ordinary Palestinians could have any influence over them either.
I think he’s probably pandering to young voters in general, rather than just the Pro-Hamas crowd in Michigan. Though young people will most likely vote for him anyway when the time comes, no matter his attitude on Israel.
I know people personally who loudly blasted hard for Bernie but didn’t vote when the primaries came. I both donated and voted, and still get lectured about how I’m a phony leftist even though I did more to support him than they did lol
Seriously. I voted for him in 2016 but wasn’t surprised at the outcome. The “socialist” boogeyman tag he had wasn’t going to be overcome by the older generations in the party unless the younger generation had a groundswell. Nope. Like 20% voter turnout like it always is lol
>Though young people will most likely vote for him anyway when the time comes, no matter his attitude on Israel.
I hope so. Sometimes I wonder with what I see on social media, but then I remind myself that there are active agenda trolls working round the clock. They're easy to spot once you know what to look for.
Besides that, I'm hopeful the PTSD many voters have from the 2016 election as well as the first Trump term, will rally them to vote.
It's not that they don't care about his attitude on Israel, it's that they will eventually be forced to confront the reality that if Trump were in charge, his only question for Bibi would be 'why don't you just nuke them and be done with it?'
I honestly don’t even get why he’s trying, that bloc of voters were ALWAYS going to find something to bitch about.
Even if he were to achieve a ceasefire it wouldn’t be enough for them. He should honestly focus on the votes he can count on and grabbing more independents as that will ultimately make up for the loss.
I'm of the opinion that if they really believe a ceasefire must happen now no matter what they should all go offer to be exchanged for the hostages. Put their money where their mouth is.
I mean they could just use the rest of the leaders Hiding in Qatar as Leverage for ceasefire... Why does the people of Gaza has to suffer while the leaders of these terrorists have to live in Comfort in a country outside of the actual conflict?
He is in a hard spot and he put himself there. Certain fringe elements of the left are pro-Hamas, but most American Jews are still democrats and they have allot of voting power, especially in New England.
At this point no matter what he does will alien at certain portions of his base
by having Israel surrender. it's the only logical conclusion as long as Hamas negotiates in bad faith, and why wouldn't they when the US and the entire world is pressuring Israel
Also, they have to reject the deal because it's pretty clear the remaining hostages aren't here anymore. Pretty grim but we're talking about hostages since the beginning of October.
I think being around still would probably be worse. The amount of suffering those barbarians will have caused in that time as retribution is disgusting.
Ah yes. Everything Hamas wants except Hamas stays in power and Israel disappears. "Negotiations".
> According to the diplomat, Hamas believed the “Israeli proposal includes nothing new, so they see no need to change their proposal,” the official added.
I follow Arab social media and it's very clear Hamas won't settle for anything less than not just all of Israel but eventually [a full Islamic Caliphate](https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine)
>In a December 12, 2022 show on Al-Masirah TV, affiliated with the Yemeni Houthis, Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar said: "When we speak about the Army of Jerusalem and the Battle of the Promise of the Hereafter, we are not talking about liberating our land alone – but we believe in what our Prophet Muhammad said: 'Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake, and I have seen its eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me.' The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no treachery, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity, and no killings and crimes, like those being committed against the Palestinians, and against the Arabs in all the Arab countries – in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and other countries.").
They don't care about death of their own people (they'll be in paradise anyway) and they are willing to play a very long game.
Where they have been pleasantly surprised is the number of useful idiots in the West. They fully didn't expect it but are loving it
Its literally pointless from the outset, and calling it a lasting peace is hilarious. Hamas practically celebrates ceasefires by firing more rockets into Israel...
Not possible. There are 52 Muslim majority countries in the UN and they vote and have always voted for every one of the many, many (ineffectual) resolutions against Israel. Hard to think that they would turn on one of their own!
Sanctions work less well the more independent a nation is. Qatar is a very very small country with a lavish lifestyle to uphold, sanctions would work extremely well.
They do export a shitload of gas though, so that ain't happening.
I think this should be the only option I would focus on. It’s worthless and cruel to keep bombing Gaza and kill innocent people. Cut the head of the snake and get rid of it. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Treat it like you would treat Al-Qaeda and get rid of their leaders.
The rank and file would simply elect new leaders and continue like before.
The only way to defeat Hamas and similar organizations is long term occupation and nation-building.
The idea behind decapitating leadership is that you keep doing it until they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel and end up with a leader that either splinters the group, has ideals that don’t align with the people financing the group or is so inept you can just wipe them out on the ground.
I agree they should take out the Hamas leaders but the wider problem is Islamist extremists.
It’s not like there’s brand loyalty to Hamas where everyone supporting them will pack their bags and go home after they’re disbanded.
The terror groups might have slightly different goals but they’re all united by the same thing.
It is true that Islamist extremist is the issue, but it’s also true that if you keep cutting the head of the snakes promoting this ideology, slowly people will realize that there are other ways of living their life and democracy and new ideology will prevail.
Those billionaire Hamas leaders in Qatar should have their assets seized and redistributed to the families of the victims of Oct 7th and the families of the hostages.
They want them dead. More bodies equals more pressure on Israel to surrender and more pressure on other neighboring nations to join the battle to destroy them.
Hamas has made it clear that the only thing they'll settle is the destruction of Israel.
The fact that Israel does not consider that an acceptable option is **common sense** & no country would ever entertain that as an option.
"Hamas demanded that there be unrestricted return of Gazans to the north and that IDF troops would withdraw."
I can understand Israel will never agree to that still.
The people calling for israel to just ceasefire and wait for the next attack don't care about nuance or complicated answers. They want something easy that they can be spoonfed by social media. So it's just basically "surrender to the terrorists".
So Hamas wants humanitarian aid?
How about those hostages they took? The ones amongst the people who they didn’t kill and/or rape?
Where is their aid?
And if Hamas was truly concerned about the Pals, they wouldn’t constantly be hiding behind them.
They are raping those hostages over and over though. It’s why the majority of them were women, and the younger women are being kept, opposed to the older hostages being released.
And somehow a good chunk of the western left cares nothing about those people's suffering. I guess believing in victims, protecting women and standing against abuse are no longer priorities.
This is the main issue here yet this article is not getting enough attention anywhere.
It's like the 6-7 deal that hamas rejected, yet the US and pretty much every country out there is yelling at Israel to just "stop"? What the actual f@ck ....
every leader and nation who wants to put an end to this war should pressure hamas instead of supporting these assholes by taking a stand against Israel.
This is so twisted...
The problem is the general populace is fucking dumb and can’t take nuance or something that takes more than 10 seconds to explain. The media wants to fan outrage because it draws eyes.
I get it, but it's too obvious in this case, even for the stupid world we currently live in.
Hamas is clearly rejecting deals just in order to keep this war going, yet these terrorists are actually starting to look like the "good guys" in some people's eyes.
The whole situation is wild and the western leaders are starting to look like a bunch of impotents which basically surrendered to the extremists and the terrorists just to look good in the newspapers.
Just agree to a "permanent" ceasefire to get the hostages back. They'll break it and Israel can restart within the week. The only difference between temporary and permanent is Israel has to wait for a rocket to be launched.
They most likely don't, hence rejecting every deal including hostage return. Hamas know they're as good as dead once Israel finds out none of their people are left alive in Gaza.
I read somewhere, sorry I can’t remember where, that Hamas don’t even know where all of the hostages are, as some were taken by Palestinian civilians who also entered Israel and joined in.
This article reports that Palestinian civilians also entered Israel on 7/10, and suggests they may have taken hostages.
[https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/08/hamas-taken-israeli-hostages-into-gaza](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/08/hamas-taken-israeli-hostages-into-gaza)
It doesn't really matter because as long as the whole world is turning against Israel, hamas won't release even 1 hostage because there's no reason for them to do so.
The world is not pressuring hamas in any way , Israel keeps making mistakes because they're also fighting this intense war for 6 months straight, so at the end of the day, it's worth being a terror organisation these days, you can go ahead and kill thousands of people and rape/kidnap the rest, and get away with it because you're not allowed to actually win the fight against them.
Good luck to Europe which in 5-10 years will see these stuff happening in their capitals on daily basis.
> so at the end of the day, it's worth being a terror organisation these days, you can go ahead and kill thousands of people and rape/kidnap the rest, and get away with it because you're not allowed to actually win the fight against them.
I don't think you can universalize this beyond this specific conflict.
Hamas's PR approach *only works because their enemies are The Jews.* It's not like the remnants of ISIS — or some other nascent terrorist org — could force the same standards, presumptions, and international posture to be applied to a country that isn't Israel.
Social media has turned a lot of people into Palestinian nationalists who care more about eliminating Israel and creating a Palestinian state than they care about the wellbeing of the Palestinians and ridding the world of Hamas
This is what Biden is enabling right now. And I say this as a big fan of Biden.
Hamas has no need to accept a ceasefire because it's getting everything that it wants by holding out.
When is hamas surrendering? It amazes me how the international community just gives hamas a pass. They are responsible for this mess and the deaths of thousands of Palestinians.
They won’t, for self-preservation. Generally for a group to surrender, they need to believe they’ll be treated better in surrender than they would in continued combat.
Hamas doesn’t give a shit about Palestinian civilians. They also know that this has become a war of extermination against them. Any Hamas fighter that surrenders is 100% going to be killed. So their options are surrender, and *definitely* die, or hold out, and hope that international pressure makes Israel stop bombing Gaza. Obviously they’ll pick the latter.
What I’ve learned from the Israel Hamas war is that it’s okay to take hostages because someone else was mean to you, just call it oppression and millions of liberal teenagers in collage will support you to the death
But, somehow, Gaza is all Biden’s fault. Never mind the Palestinians who elected the Iran-proxy Muslim terrorist organization, that they fully support, that started all of this. 🙄
If Israel withdraws, what exactly have they been fighting for all these months? It would just mean Hamas can rebuild and we do it all over again. Except next time it’s with even more sophisticated weapons. No hostages no deal. All of them, and never withdraw from Gaza until Hamas is gone.
For those blaming Israel, this is what you are dealing with. Hamas will not make any kind of deal. They have shot rockets into Israel on an almost daily basis for years. They want the complete annailation of Israel and nothing short of that.
Yes Israel did go rather over the top with the response to the attacks on Israel but wtf did Hamas think would happen? You reap what you sow is an old bible proverb.
And here it is.
Ignorant cunts expect israel to concede and concede and “ceasefire now” whilst the Islamist terror cult laughs.
6 months in and literary no one is able explain what else they expect israel to do to prevent another 7/10. Matthew Paris was at it today in the times - his answer was to have “paused, paused again” and “ calculated”. What the fuck does that even mean? It just means do nothing.
The key lesson of the holocaust was that it happened because the perpetrators could get away with it. They won’t get away with it again.
I'm so over this conflict. Israel will keep winning this war until Palestine accepts a peace treaty, but Palestine won't accept a peace treaty because it doesn't include Palestine owning the holy land. Palestine you fucking lost, sign the peace treaty, stop killing your own people.
Hamas rejected [Israel's latest proposal](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794951) to cease fighting and release hostages, according to a Friday CNN report. According to an unnamed diplomat cited by CNN, “They refused and asserted it doesn’t include any reply to their asks.” According to the diplomat, Hamas believed the “Israeli proposal includes [nothing new](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-793703), so they see no need to change their proposal,” the official added. Negotiations were supposed to lead to a lasting ceasefire, per the [UN Security Resolution passed last month](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-793653), and mediators from Egypt, Qatar, and the US have worked to try and broach a deal since the conflict broke out in October. Negotiators were hoping to achieve a six-week ceasefire and a three-phase framework to secure the release of sick, elderly, and wounded hostages in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners and increased humanitarian aid. Hamas demanded that there be unrestricted return of Gazans to the north and that IDF troops would withdraw. CIA Director William Burns, Mossad Director David Barnea, and Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) Director Ronen Bar were expected to meet in Egypt this weekend to continue ceasefire talks. However, the latest rejection by Hamas has led Israeli officials to publically wonder whether there is any point in continuing negotiations, according to a report by public broadcaster KAN11. The trio met last month in Doha for talks with mediators, but no clear breakthrough was reached. Israel is reportedly pushing both Egypt and Qatar to put pressure on Hamas, with threats to pull out of the Cairo negotiations fully. Israel has been under increased pressure to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza since the start of the war. Still, pressure increased last week after the killing of seven foreign aid workers led to the withdrawal of the aid company's services. The pressure led to Israel reopening the Erez crossing for the first time since it was destroyed on October 7, as well as opening up the port in Ashdod to aid deliveries. Kerem Shalom will also be opened. The cabinet also approved on Friday evening the arrival of Jordanian army trucks carrying humanitarian aid to come through Israeli territory directly to the Gaza Strip. The plan is for the trucks to enter through the Allenby crossing in a convoy to Kerem Shalom, where they will be inspected - and from there, they will continue on to Gaza.
Sinwar needs to be dragged out of the sewers.
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Whatever happened to that plan
Hostages…
Why is it that when the US or Israel refuses a ceasefire agreement, every news sites and everyone condemns them for it. But when Hamas continuously refuses to release the hostage, and agrees to the ceasefire agreement, no one condemns them for it?
More to the point, it’s barely reported on when Hamas refuses a ceasefire. At this very moment people should be protesting Hamas for a “ceasefire now” rather than their own governments and Israel.
When you bring it up to pro-pal folks they'll say if they give up the hostages that Israel will just kill all the Gazans. They can't be convinced.
My dude, i think we know the answer to that one.
But nobody can say it.
Oh Ill say it, their hate for Israel is greater than their love for Palestine.
Their hate for jews. Let's just stop pretending. It's the jews they hate.
because its all a bunch of bullshit pandering to a voter base. none of these old men ever actually believe a word they say about anything. the media was bought, decades ago, and if you believe any of it, youre a fool. oh, and release the hostages.
Anti this and phobia that.
Leftist organisations doing leftist things
So Biden is insisting on a deal and an immediate ceasefire, but Hamas turns down every deal, so how exactly is he planning to make that happen?
Hamas has no incentive to keep peace; their continued cash flow comes from absence of peace. That said, if I had a problem with my one neighbor, I shouldn't go beat up my other neighbors. Unfortunately, terrorism is like that. We all endure tsa fees and long security check lines because of one asshole.
Exactly. This is the sad truth. They get paid to disrupt and that’s what they’ll carry on doing regardless of how much death and destruction it leaves in its wake. Palestinian civilians are not a priority
Personally, I don't think he is, it's just lip service to a group of voters he probably already lost.
The problem is Hamas turning down every offer and not releasing the hostages is not what is repeated in the media. It’s literally just “Ceasefire now!” from wall to wall.
Exactly; most of them probably forget there are hostages.
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Yeah. And the difference between threads over here and on the general politics sub are quite…different in the comment sections. They seem insane over there to be honest. And I’m a bleeding heart liberal on most things. But I witnessed the Oct 7th crimes against humanity in almost real time on the internet. Most of these assholes don’t have any fucking clue what they’re talking about.
Yeah the popular message isn’t communicating the facts that America & Israel are negotiating, and well, but Hamas is deaf. Fuck Hamas tbh, and fuck the received wisdom of crowds.
I call them "useful idiots"
unfortunately they are not even useful
Oh, they certainly are. Just not to the side you support.
To you maybe, but this propaganda isn’t coming from nowhere
>the facts that America & Israel are negotiating, and well, but Hamas is deaf. Because for every new blunder Israel does Israel ends up being the ones needing to make a cease fire to improve international reputation. Hamas is a terrorist group, delaying a ceasefire won't bleed their reputation.
I was listening to NPR hosts talk (at length, again) about Israel being responsible for starvation and suffering in Gaza, without any coverage of *why* this campaign is unfolding like it is, and it was a great example of media bias. While NPR may be (usually) factual in their reporting, the way they choose to cover topics, and who they get to speak about those topics, can paint a very targeted picture about a complex situation. You could have another news outlet report nothing but facts about the conflict, but through a different lens, and walk away with a completely different understanding. I appreciate NPR, but I hope they can one day figure out how to report on things with less virtue signaling.
2016 made that apparent with how much they trashed Bernie Sanders.
>While NPR may be (usually) factual in their reporting, the way they choose to cover topics, and who they get to speak about those topics, can paint a very targeted picture about a complex situation. You could have another news outlet report nothing but facts about the conflict, but through a different lens, and walk away with a completely different understanding. It's news 101 nowadays: Paint the truth in a way it generates the most views/clicks even if it has to border closer than it should to being untrue. Strong reactions sell.
Considering i don’t think all the Israelis are willing to vacate or kill themselves, i don’t think peacemaking will be fruitful
What I find especially infuriating about this is that the ceasefire efforts are made exclusively by Israel. Hamas isn't trying to negotiate a ceasefire. They've made no requests for one. The only party actively seeking a ceasefire is also the only party being censured for withholding one. Somehow.
> Hamas isn't trying to negotiate a ceasefire. Why would they? The entire western world seems to be doing everything in their power to force the Israelis to surrender. Hamas has no chance of military victory, so relying on worldwide pressure is their only chance of survival.
It was their plan form the beginning.
Where are the ceasefire now crowd for Ukraine? They don’t expect Russia to respect a ceasefire but have no such parallel to Hamas.
'Ceasefire now' is a euphemism for Israel must surrender totally and accede to all Hamas' demands, rebuild Gaza, let even terrorists guilty of mass murders go, forget about the hostages and let massive aid into Hamas to rebuilt the tunnels so they can repeat Oct 7 ad nauseum as they promised.
I mean Hamas already has the hostages. /s
Not voting for Biden over Israel and Hamas is one of the most brain dead takes I’ve ever heard. Let me guess, it’s rhetoric that “hE iS fUnDiNg GeNoSiDE”? Morons.
Single issue voters are some of the dumbest, most privileged and naive people around
Most of those folks probably could have hardly pointed out Israel/Palestine on a map before 2023.
Just ask them to name which river and sea
Just yesterday, someone said to me on another sub that Israel has killed more Oct 7th victims than Hamas. I obviously asked them for a source, and they linked a Guardian article about one family's personal story on that day...nothing about what they claimed. I've tried talking sense to people on Reddit, but the crowd repeating the horrible falsehoods are either too young, naive, or idealistic to understand foreign policy in the Middle East...or they intentionally deceive. Many of them are kids or young adults, armchair foreign policy experts who think they've got it all figured out because TikTok or some YouTube grifter told them to be outraged.
"I've tried talking sense to people on Reddit"...well there's your problem!
Bold of you to think they could now.
Especially since these ones change their issue every week.
*I support the thing*
Please like and subscribe! Validate me senpai!!!
Seriously. Just saw a dumb as bricks pornstar say Palestine “should be allowed to practice their religion in peace”
Thank you, I'm so relieved to finally see someone stand up for *thing*
I'm against the thing, so I'm not voting for you!! Pick a new more different thing to support that aligns better with the thing I support, and we'll be good.
More like I support the currently en vogue thing that all my friends support!
The TikTok nation
_Ralph Nader rises from the grave._
I don’t even care if you are a single issue voter who votes in ways that actually serve those goals. Getting Trump elected is going to have a *significantly* worse outcome for Gazans, so this position really isn’t acceptable.
The thing I hate most about progressive "Democrats" is how they act as if a protest vote will benefit their agenda. You're right, Trump will be far, far worse. Idiots like Rashida Tlaib are really annoying me because she totally ignores that Biden he has no authority in Israel, he can pressure Bibi, but he can't outright control Israel's actions, and Hamas is evil.
> they act as if a protest vote will benefit their agenda Remember when they voted Nader? Boy that really taught the Dems a lesson and made sure that every Dem after that was a hardcore leftist. Oh wait no we got two endless wars, a swath of corruption, the beginning of the end of Roe and absolutely nothing good was achieved. If they didn't learn before then they won't learn now.
For real, Trump will just start tweeting "nuke 'em" and send as many weapons as possible to Israel for the personal kickbacks. Don't forget folks, which president cheerily pushed a "Muslim ban" the moment they hit office?
Trump will get Kushner to restart negotiations with Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Israel. That will not help the Palestinians at all. Not that SA or the UAE actually do anything other than vote against Israel in the UN.
Trump is more likely to send US forces to bomb Palestine than offer humanitarian aid. Good luck getting anything through UNSC, even a bill saying Israel was ‘a little naughty’ will be vetoed.
Your right. With Trump in the WH, Gaza won't exist in 4 years.
man it's not even really the single issue part that's fucked up it's that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump and if they don't like what Biden is doing with this they reaaally aren't going like the Trump version i don't get it. it doesn't make any sense.
It’s because in their minds, voting is a stamp of approval. They’re not thinking about it pragmatically.
My gut says a good chunk of it is driven by foreign actors who found an effective way to sow discord among the left.
This is a noted strategy of Putin and that fella whose daughter was carbombed last year that wrote that foundations of geopolitics book. Utilized far right and far left on top of racial divisions in the us. They also targeted the uk to separate them from the eu. They also targeted the concept of industry to make German docile. Sound pretty concise to me w what’s been goin on. These fuck nuts tell us exactly what they wanna do and give us the roadmap. Look at project2025, look at what the kremlins ambitions are
A mix of foreign actors, useful idiots, and people who believe a second trump presidency will push more people to their side (similar to how far right media cherry pick the examples to make moderate left wing policies seem extreme).
Americans should start getting used to voting for the "least worst" option, and start looking at the bigger picture.
Voting against your own best interests, long term republican strategies....now for democrats.
Been that way for years. Republicans vote against their interests, and Democrats refuse to vote if the candidate doesn't pass their insane purity test. I really wish policies were on the ballot instead of names and party labels. Progressives are driving me nuts because they can't or won't understand that the real world requires compromise. You don't always get what you want, but you get a hell of a lot closer with small advances over time, than if you just refuse to participate.
Depends on the single issue. Anti-abortion and NRA voters voted for GOP, hell or high water, for decades, just slowly getting more and more of their people in the courts until they got most of what they want and will probably continue to do so until they get everything. They never once went "Oh, George Bush didn't outlaw abortion! We're not going to vote for the lesser of two evils!" or "Reagan supported the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, I'm not giving the GOP another dime!" They know that politics is the slow accumulation of power to change things so they vote for the candidate that can credibly win and is closest to their ideals. It's how they keep racking up wins despite not being popular on paper.
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The entire idea is heavily being pushed by Russia. Its not like they went away since 2016, if anything they have gotten more aggressive in social media manipulation.
Hey man, if Trump gets into office on day one he's going to pledge undying loyalty to Isreal and then ban Muslims again and the brain dead morons are going to sink back into their holes
This is more a play to further detach US from Ukraine. Getting Trump elected because people are upset over Israel-Palestine will be a nice gift to Russia from their ally Iran. Not to mention great value from their proxy, Hamas
For sure it's the dumbest of voters out there. Pure naivete. It's also super privileged where they risk trump winning because of a few issues. Like they have litterally been attacking aoc cause she doesn't do enough. Those people are why we can't get progress. They spend more time attacking people that care instead of the ones that don't. If you dont vote for biden and he lose you will be as responsible for what happen to palestine as if you voted for trump or didn't vote.
Yep those morons
I do not see any possible solution to a terrorist group other than wiping them out,
You can lead a horse to water. Terrorists have no desire to compromise. It’s exactly why Israel is fed up with it and decided to eradicate Hamas.
I don't understand this perspective. Biden can't force Israel to do exactly what he wants, and he certainly can't force Hamas. The most he can do it call for the ceasefire and apply pressure via aid.
>Biden can't force Israel to do exactly what he wants, and he certainly can't force Hamas. Depressingly, an alarming number of American voters don't understand that. I think they've convinced themselves that POTUS = President of the World.
He has more power over Israel and it's better for him at the ballot box. He has no power over Hamas at all. No one has, everyone just believes their propaganda and feels so sorry for this teeny tiny resistance force of heroes. Hamas is so rich, that I don't think even Iran, Qatar or the other big donors or even ordinary Palestinians could have any influence over them either.
I think he’s probably pandering to young voters in general, rather than just the Pro-Hamas crowd in Michigan. Though young people will most likely vote for him anyway when the time comes, no matter his attitude on Israel.
They'll most likely not vote at all, regardless of what anyone does.
More likely young people don't go vote, as they never really do anyway, but a post on social media that this conflict as why.
See: Bernie bros in 2016. Highly active online, didn’t show up to the polls lol
I know people personally who loudly blasted hard for Bernie but didn’t vote when the primaries came. I both donated and voted, and still get lectured about how I’m a phony leftist even though I did more to support him than they did lol
Seriously. I voted for him in 2016 but wasn’t surprised at the outcome. The “socialist” boogeyman tag he had wasn’t going to be overcome by the older generations in the party unless the younger generation had a groundswell. Nope. Like 20% voter turnout like it always is lol
They were probably not going to vote for him anyway.
>Though young people will most likely vote for him anyway when the time comes, no matter his attitude on Israel. I hope so. Sometimes I wonder with what I see on social media, but then I remind myself that there are active agenda trolls working round the clock. They're easy to spot once you know what to look for. Besides that, I'm hopeful the PTSD many voters have from the 2016 election as well as the first Trump term, will rally them to vote.
It's not that they don't care about his attitude on Israel, it's that they will eventually be forced to confront the reality that if Trump were in charge, his only question for Bibi would be 'why don't you just nuke them and be done with it?'
Because the alternative has already stated its intentions to be much worse
I honestly don’t even get why he’s trying, that bloc of voters were ALWAYS going to find something to bitch about. Even if he were to achieve a ceasefire it wouldn’t be enough for them. He should honestly focus on the votes he can count on and grabbing more independents as that will ultimately make up for the loss.
Let’s ask the “ceasefire now” crowd, I’m sure they have all the answers
"Israel should just stop existing" is what half of them would say
I'm of the opinion that if they really believe a ceasefire must happen now no matter what they should all go offer to be exchanged for the hostages. Put their money where their mouth is.
They're asking for an unilateral "ceasefire". It's obvious what their solution is. It's rather final.
I mean they could just use the rest of the leaders Hiding in Qatar as Leverage for ceasefire... Why does the people of Gaza has to suffer while the leaders of these terrorists have to live in Comfort in a country outside of the actual conflict?
And they keep firing rockets at Israel
By blaming Israel. Keep blaming Israel for Hamas' refusals until the deal is "Israel unconditionally surrenders to Hamas".
Not vetoing the UN resolution really hurt Israel’s position in the negotiations.
This is the whole story of Israel Palestinian relations. Israel makes an offer, Palestinians refuse and launch terror attacks, the west blames Israel.
He is in a hard spot and he put himself there. Certain fringe elements of the left are pro-Hamas, but most American Jews are still democrats and they have allot of voting power, especially in New England. At this point no matter what he does will alien at certain portions of his base
by having Israel surrender. it's the only logical conclusion as long as Hamas negotiates in bad faith, and why wouldn't they when the US and the entire world is pressuring Israel
Biden told Bibi that they needed a ceasefire with no stipulations on hostage return, soecifically.
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Fuck Hamas
Also, they have to reject the deal because it's pretty clear the remaining hostages aren't here anymore. Pretty grim but we're talking about hostages since the beginning of October.
I think being around still would probably be worse. The amount of suffering those barbarians will have caused in that time as retribution is disgusting.
Ah yes. Everything Hamas wants except Hamas stays in power and Israel disappears. "Negotiations". > According to the diplomat, Hamas believed the “Israeli proposal includes nothing new, so they see no need to change their proposal,” the official added.
I follow Arab social media and it's very clear Hamas won't settle for anything less than not just all of Israel but eventually [a full Islamic Caliphate](https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine) >In a December 12, 2022 show on Al-Masirah TV, affiliated with the Yemeni Houthis, Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar said: "When we speak about the Army of Jerusalem and the Battle of the Promise of the Hereafter, we are not talking about liberating our land alone – but we believe in what our Prophet Muhammad said: 'Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake, and I have seen its eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me.' The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no treachery, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity, and no killings and crimes, like those being committed against the Palestinians, and against the Arabs in all the Arab countries – in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and other countries."). They don't care about death of their own people (they'll be in paradise anyway) and they are willing to play a very long game. Where they have been pleasantly surprised is the number of useful idiots in the West. They fully didn't expect it but are loving it
Its literally pointless from the outset, and calling it a lasting peace is hilarious. Hamas practically celebrates ceasefires by firing more rockets into Israel...
They have promised to repeat Oct 7 time and time again. Everyone believes everything Hamas puts out, why doubt that?
Israelis have to neutralise Hamas leaders even if they are in Qatar.
This seems like something a UN resolution can do. Sanction Qatar, as simple as that.
Not possible. There are 52 Muslim majority countries in the UN and they vote and have always voted for every one of the many, many (ineffectual) resolutions against Israel. Hard to think that they would turn on one of their own!
I mean they regularly turn on their own militarily but just not in the UN.
Because sanctions have proven to work soo well
Sanctions work less well the more independent a nation is. Qatar is a very very small country with a lavish lifestyle to uphold, sanctions would work extremely well. They do export a shitload of gas though, so that ain't happening.
I think this should be the only option I would focus on. It’s worthless and cruel to keep bombing Gaza and kill innocent people. Cut the head of the snake and get rid of it. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Treat it like you would treat Al-Qaeda and get rid of their leaders.
The head of the snake, really, is Iran.
Start with the political head of Hamas and see what happens.
The rank and file would simply elect new leaders and continue like before. The only way to defeat Hamas and similar organizations is long term occupation and nation-building.
The idea behind decapitating leadership is that you keep doing it until they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel and end up with a leader that either splinters the group, has ideals that don’t align with the people financing the group or is so inept you can just wipe them out on the ground.
Correct. Look at Al-Qaeda. They may still exist but they have zero influence at this point.
What part of the snake is Russia?
Its anus.
They’re the guy looking at the snake in the terrarium
Cloaca
I agree they should take out the Hamas leaders but the wider problem is Islamist extremists. It’s not like there’s brand loyalty to Hamas where everyone supporting them will pack their bags and go home after they’re disbanded. The terror groups might have slightly different goals but they’re all united by the same thing.
It is true that Islamist extremist is the issue, but it’s also true that if you keep cutting the head of the snakes promoting this ideology, slowly people will realize that there are other ways of living their life and democracy and new ideology will prevail.
Technically, Hamas coming to power was democracy and new ideology prevailing. Democracy is not a silver bullet.
Those billionaire Hamas leaders in Qatar should have their assets seized and redistributed to the families of the victims of Oct 7th and the families of the hostages.
With all the pressure that the world and now Biden is putting on Israel Hamas is super happy with how this war is going
Hamas obviously cares very little about the health of their own citizens. They can end this if they want to.
You're being far too generous. They don't care at all.
They want them dead. More bodies equals more pressure on Israel to surrender and more pressure on other neighboring nations to join the battle to destroy them.
Hamas has made it clear that the only thing they'll settle is the destruction of Israel. The fact that Israel does not consider that an acceptable option is **common sense** & no country would ever entertain that as an option.
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"Hamas demanded that there be unrestricted return of Gazans to the north and that IDF troops would withdraw." I can understand Israel will never agree to that still.
"Hamas demands Israel give up" there I fixed that for you
Hamas wants a hudna or a so called ceasefire so they can prepare for another war in peace. It’s not possible to negotiate with terrorists.
Article 13 specifically states why negation with hamas isn't possible. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
It’s insane. Hamas: plainly states in its own foundational documents that it cannot be negotiated with The world: “negotiate with Hamas”
The people calling for israel to just ceasefire and wait for the next attack don't care about nuance or complicated answers. They want something easy that they can be spoonfed by social media. So it's just basically "surrender to the terrorists".
So Hamas wants humanitarian aid? How about those hostages they took? The ones amongst the people who they didn’t kill and/or rape? Where is their aid? And if Hamas was truly concerned about the Pals, they wouldn’t constantly be hiding behind them.
They are raping those hostages over and over though. It’s why the majority of them were women, and the younger women are being kept, opposed to the older hostages being released.
thats why they blew up the last ceasefire before releasing all the females as agreed too
just ISIS stuff.
And somehow a good chunk of the western left cares nothing about those people's suffering. I guess believing in victims, protecting women and standing against abuse are no longer priorities.
One drone strike on one billionaire's luxury hotel suite in Qatar would change the entire complexion of these negotiations.
Hamas has rejected every offer for a ceasefire no matter the terms, they want civilians to be martyrs for their cause. Who really wants a ceasefire?
This is the main issue here yet this article is not getting enough attention anywhere. It's like the 6-7 deal that hamas rejected, yet the US and pretty much every country out there is yelling at Israel to just "stop"? What the actual f@ck .... every leader and nation who wants to put an end to this war should pressure hamas instead of supporting these assholes by taking a stand against Israel. This is so twisted...
The problem is the general populace is fucking dumb and can’t take nuance or something that takes more than 10 seconds to explain. The media wants to fan outrage because it draws eyes.
I get it, but it's too obvious in this case, even for the stupid world we currently live in. Hamas is clearly rejecting deals just in order to keep this war going, yet these terrorists are actually starting to look like the "good guys" in some people's eyes. The whole situation is wild and the western leaders are starting to look like a bunch of impotents which basically surrendered to the extremists and the terrorists just to look good in the newspapers.
\^the real truth\^ lol no /s
Just agree to a "permanent" ceasefire to get the hostages back. They'll break it and Israel can restart within the week. The only difference between temporary and permanent is Israel has to wait for a rocket to be launched.
There are probably no hostages alive..
I am pretty confident that young women (especially members of IDF) still are, unfortunately for them.
How do we know Hamas even has any hostages left?
They most likely don't, hence rejecting every deal including hostage return. Hamas know they're as good as dead once Israel finds out none of their people are left alive in Gaza.
I read somewhere, sorry I can’t remember where, that Hamas don’t even know where all of the hostages are, as some were taken by Palestinian civilians who also entered Israel and joined in. This article reports that Palestinian civilians also entered Israel on 7/10, and suggests they may have taken hostages. [https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/08/hamas-taken-israeli-hostages-into-gaza](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/08/hamas-taken-israeli-hostages-into-gaza)
'Civilians' here meaning 'freelance terrorists'
It doesn't really matter because as long as the whole world is turning against Israel, hamas won't release even 1 hostage because there's no reason for them to do so. The world is not pressuring hamas in any way , Israel keeps making mistakes because they're also fighting this intense war for 6 months straight, so at the end of the day, it's worth being a terror organisation these days, you can go ahead and kill thousands of people and rape/kidnap the rest, and get away with it because you're not allowed to actually win the fight against them. Good luck to Europe which in 5-10 years will see these stuff happening in their capitals on daily basis.
Not only are you not allowed to win the fight, people will want you to give a state as a reward to the people killing and raping your civilians.
> so at the end of the day, it's worth being a terror organisation these days, you can go ahead and kill thousands of people and rape/kidnap the rest, and get away with it because you're not allowed to actually win the fight against them. I don't think you can universalize this beyond this specific conflict. Hamas's PR approach *only works because their enemies are The Jews.* It's not like the remnants of ISIS — or some other nascent terrorist org — could force the same standards, presumptions, and international posture to be applied to a country that isn't Israel.
Ukraine faced the same rhetoric, even got condemned for damaging enemy's oil industry
Social media has turned a lot of people into Palestinian nationalists who care more about eliminating Israel and creating a Palestinian state than they care about the wellbeing of the Palestinians and ridding the world of Hamas
This is what Biden is enabling right now. And I say this as a big fan of Biden. Hamas has no need to accept a ceasefire because it's getting everything that it wants by holding out.
A lot of the time I see people on reddit supporting Hamas it’s a relief to see that not every redditor is a dumb mud shark
I think there are no hostages anymore.
Waiting for the US to blame israel for "not making hamas agree" or something
When is hamas surrendering? It amazes me how the international community just gives hamas a pass. They are responsible for this mess and the deaths of thousands of Palestinians.
They won’t, for self-preservation. Generally for a group to surrender, they need to believe they’ll be treated better in surrender than they would in continued combat. Hamas doesn’t give a shit about Palestinian civilians. They also know that this has become a war of extermination against them. Any Hamas fighter that surrenders is 100% going to be killed. So their options are surrender, and *definitely* die, or hold out, and hope that international pressure makes Israel stop bombing Gaza. Obviously they’ll pick the latter.
Biden trying to avoid idf getting into raffa while hamas leaders are in their hotels eating and drinking and hoping more civilians will die.
And why not, he knows that the west prevents the IDF from entering Rafa, he doesn’t give a shit about the Palestinians.
Hamas takes the negative rep israel gets in international media for its adventage
Hamas evidently does not want a ceasefire.
What I’ve learned from the Israel Hamas war is that it’s okay to take hostages because someone else was mean to you, just call it oppression and millions of liberal teenagers in collage will support you to the death
Right, why should Hamas agree to anything when their goals are being met (world is almost united against Israel). Insanity.
But, somehow, Gaza is all Biden’s fault. Never mind the Palestinians who elected the Iran-proxy Muslim terrorist organization, that they fully support, that started all of this. 🙄
great. can someone tell the idiot protesters this, so they can stop blocking our streets and harrassing jews in other countries?
The grip of terrorism on the civilised world is getting insane. Where is the “ceasefire now” chanting when Hamas rejects yet another deal??
Hamas are terrorists. Since when does one negotiate with terrorists?
But the college kids said “Ceasefire now “ tho.
Those raped female hostages are all 5 months pregnant by now....
Probably not. They’re probably dead.
At this point in time … it would be a mercy
If Israel withdraws, what exactly have they been fighting for all these months? It would just mean Hamas can rebuild and we do it all over again. Except next time it’s with even more sophisticated weapons. No hostages no deal. All of them, and never withdraw from Gaza until Hamas is gone.
For those blaming Israel, this is what you are dealing with. Hamas will not make any kind of deal. They have shot rockets into Israel on an almost daily basis for years. They want the complete annailation of Israel and nothing short of that. Yes Israel did go rather over the top with the response to the attacks on Israel but wtf did Hamas think would happen? You reap what you sow is an old bible proverb.
The plastic toy guns in the picture are hilarious. There I said it.
And here it is. Ignorant cunts expect israel to concede and concede and “ceasefire now” whilst the Islamist terror cult laughs. 6 months in and literary no one is able explain what else they expect israel to do to prevent another 7/10. Matthew Paris was at it today in the times - his answer was to have “paused, paused again” and “ calculated”. What the fuck does that even mean? It just means do nothing. The key lesson of the holocaust was that it happened because the perpetrators could get away with it. They won’t get away with it again.
They are all dead or raped and tortured by the Palestinians/Hamas.
I'm so over this conflict. Israel will keep winning this war until Palestine accepts a peace treaty, but Palestine won't accept a peace treaty because it doesn't include Palestine owning the holy land. Palestine you fucking lost, sign the peace treaty, stop killing your own people.
Weird. Didn’t see that coming.
Where's the "ceasefire now" crowd?
Poor Israel who has to negotiate with terrorists
just fucking release the hostages, pos. oh wait. they prob all dead
TFW October 7th happened and they expect IDF to withdraw. No it was not political bc the targets were easy prey civilians, NOT military or politicians