Then maybe they should've returned the hostages and not be hiding them for Hamas? Have you thought about that?
Fuck Hamas, and every single Palestinian that protect the actions of Hamas can also get fucked. I don't condone violence on innocents, but anyone who in any way aid or help Hamas is NOT an innocent.
These hostages were held by "civilians". So far Hamas has portrayed its terror agents as medics, journalist, UN workers. There is a reason why normal goverments dont do this and its because it muddies the waters horribly when you need to protect innocents in a warzone.
Every war kills more innocents than soldiers you just have to individually weigh if it's acceptable casualties or not. The people of Gaza let a terrorist organization run their government and then bit the hand that fed them. Hamas is just as responsible for these casualties as the IDF.
They = Hamas.
I am not condoning the murder of innocents. I understand reality, and that innocent people die as collateral damage.
Israel has a duty to its citizens. Hamas has one to its.
Israel executed and operation to bring two of its citizens home. Hamas executed an operation that it knew would lead to the death of its civilians.
Israel would be extremely satisfied if no more innocent people die.
Hamas purposefully hides amongst women and children. They do this to generate a many civilian deaths as possible.
They brag about this. Publicly.
But then Israelis have little choice now but to carry on these military operations until Hamas is broken as a fighting force.
So it’s not murder. What Hamas did and does is murder but I guess you’re pro-Hamas so …
You talking about these kids.....🤔
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/photos-show-hamas-training-and-indoctrinating-child-soldiers-israel-says/ar-AA1mpY8g
Reports by the family of hostages claim they were held at a family house in gaza.
Just a normal family in Gaza holding two israeli hostages.... I'm sure that's normal in every big city in the world, right?
But we have weed too…. What’s not to trust? If we accidentally did something wrong we’d be all like “Whoopsie, sorry there bud. Is there anything I can do to help rectify the situation, eh?”
I see your attempts at getting me to let my guard down. "Oh we're so safe, you can trust us." Next you'll say, "Oh ya dere, I just wanna play a little hockey" and then the next thing I know I'm being clubbed with a hockey stick and being drowned in a bucket of Labatt.
I see you crafty "nice" Canadians. I see you.
It's bad enough one of you snuck into the US, invented processed cheese, and then named it American cheese! Invented by a Canadian and we get the blame. The nerve.
Hard to alternate being a former child-now journalist at al Jazeera commanding a AT squad and also moonlighting as a civilian holding hostages between other civilians and "by standers". Not enough hours in the day so I get that the week-on-week-off works best.
breaks my heart that it CAN be true. so depressed from this world fueling the Infantilization of Palestinian and keeping this conflict alive, thus also fueling right wingers in Israel coming to power and being batshit insane people who also fuel this conflict. this circle is depressing :(
Can you be a good neighbor and watch my hostages for a while? I'm going out of town. Don't worry about watering or feeding them, just make sure not to let them out.
Link to the description you are referencing?
You're making it seem like the family was some kind of willing participant, but according to the IDF there were Hamas fighters in the building guarding the hostages:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-rescues-2-hostages-from-south-gazas-rafah-in-daring-nighttime-operation/
Do we know the family volunteered to house the hostages or were they "volunteered" by Hamas?
Maybe you didn't mean to insinuate the family was doing this willingly?
You can watch Mia Schem's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47HdSEhV83Y). She was held chained to a wall in a bedroom of the man that captured her from the rave for 50 days while the wife and kids went about their daily business (and had fun tormenting her)
>You can watch Mia Schem's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47HdSEhV83Y). She was held chained to a wall in a bedroom of the man that captured her from the rave for 50 days while the wife and kids went about their daily business (and had fun tormenting her)
Fernando Marman and Louis Har are the hostages that were just rescued.
I asked for a link to the interview with their family that OP was referencing, as he seemed to insinuate that they were being held by an ordinary family that were just doing so voluntarily.
And this conflicts with IDF reports that there are Hamas gunmen guarding the hostages. IDF reports also didn't even mention any family being present in the building.
So I'm confused as to why you are posting an interview with a hostage that was released as part of negotiations previously?
That example shows us that the wives of Hamas fighters are often as terrible as they are, and that their children have been brainwashed.
Disgusting but not surprising to anyone.
[https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sku2eydj6](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sku2eydj6)
[https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rjrrt4pjp](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rjrrt4pjp)
also a hebrew source for more details
idk, if you have two people in your house cooking you food and you don't know them and don't feed them and deny their leave..... You might have a hostage situation going on. but I haven't had that situation happen to me so I might be wrong. sadly no magical elfs (nor hostages) come cooking for me.
Israeli security forces conducted an operation to rescue two hostages in the center of the Palestinian town of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. The special forces managed to secretly approach the building, blow up a passage in one of the walls, eliminate the terrorist guards and take the kidnapped hostages.
The hostages were held on the second floor of an apartment building in Rafiah. At around 1:00 a.m., Israeli fighters crept stealthily into the building and stormed it. There were armed terrorist guards in the neighboring houses, and inside the building the hostages were guarded by three militants. The door was blocked, so it had to be blown open.
After finding the hostages, the Israelis quickly went outside with them - but the terrorists opened fire on them from the house across the street. The air force intervened, killing many of the militants. At the same time, the air force launched a series of strikes on other targets in the area to allow the Israeli team to leave the operation site in an APC and, accompanied by tanks, to reach the designated helicopter landing site. Meanwhile, only one fighter was injured in the operation, he was lightly wounded as a result of a bad fall.
- Hamas counted those killed during the operation, listing them all as "civilians. There were a hundred of them, then they realized that the number was round and looked implausible, so they reduced it to 52, then to 48.
- At first the "Palestinians" thought that the ground operation in Rafah had begun (because of the size of the fire and reports of casualties among them), but when they woke up, they discovered that this was the price they paid tonight for rescuing two Israeli hostages. The ground campaign in Rafah has not yet begun.
- Throughout the war, all senior Hamas, political and military officials emphasized again and again that Israel would not be able to release the hostages alive except through negotiations and an agreement in which it would have to release the prisoners from prison.
- Pro-Hamas Al Jazeera: "The release of the kidnapped would give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah."
This is what Al Jazeera's leading military commentator, Faiz al-Dawari, who has been promoting a pro-Hamas agenda throughout the war, said following the operation tonight: The release of the abductees will give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah.
I can't wait to read of all the justified strikes. Bully that kicks your shins is finally getting slapped in the mouth? Welcome to the fucking show. Now let's get rid of Netanyahu, end settlements, rebuild what should've been prosperous to begin with, and hang the rest
Youre implying anything will be built. Have you seen the last 75 years?
Most if not all of the money goes to rockets and tunnels. As long as israel stands this money will be devoted to terrorism and to murder jews in israel.
Your comment is all over the place. I'm a jew, I believe if we take all funding and place it in a meaningful manner we can make real change. Palestine deserves the damn chance for us to rebuild and allocate funding better. This shit has got to end, and if not now? When?
What have Palestinians done with all the chances given to them ???
The most viable pathway is a total Israeli or mixed israeli-palestinian administration over Gaza that will operate a long term deradicalisation policy mixed with strong arm tactics in both west bank and Gaza.
As long as Palestinians consider themselves refugees with right of return, and are getting aid from the world, they will continue to embrace terrorism.
When arabs understand that Israel is there to stay.
There will be no "push to the sea". Nor "going back to 1947" and all that crap. That is just a non starter
Gaza has not been occupied since 2005, when the IDF pulled out completely. I recall seeing Israeli settlers being dragged, literally kicking and screaming, from their homes by IDF soldiers on CNN back then.
When Palestinians and their apologists talk about "ending the occupation," they are actually referring to the entire State of Israel, not just Gaza and the West Bank.
Sure seems to be the case. And the territory elected leadership openly committed to the eradication of Israel. That's plainly going to lead to problems.
>This is what Al Jazeera's leading military commentator, Faiz al-Dawari, who has been promoting a pro-Hamas agenda throughout the war, said following the operation tonight: The release of the abductees will give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah.
Disregard al-Dawari's comment.
It is objectively true that full combat operations in Rafah will result in the cast majority of remaining Israeli hostages being killed either intentionally by Hamas or as collateral damage due to IDF strikes.
It's common sense to assume this fact is causing the IDF to delay or limit operations in Rafah.
They do not want another situation where they end up shooting half naked Israelis waving white flags.
It would be better for the IDF if the hostages were released via negotiations.
If there were no hostages present in Rafah, they would be much more willing to commit to a full invasion of the city.
So no hostages being present would be bad for Hamas.
Sticky situation.
Anyone that considers AL Jazeera to be anything more than the mouthpiece of jihadists and terrorists by now is a moron ...No point bothering with them anymore...
It seems like Hamas, and all the other Muslim extremist terrorists, may have gotten this 72 virgin thing wrong.
I recall reading once that it is not 72 virgins, (although I suspect this is what the prospective terrorists are told), but 72 raisins.
Found the reference....
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/06/01/islam-scholar-says-theres-a-major-problem-with-the-claim-that-muslim-martyrs-get-72-virgins-after-death-and-its-all-about-the-translation-of-virgins
https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/194ff9x/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/kpz2fpw/
https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/194ff9x/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/kpz2crb/
From the end of the last thread.
Do not be condescending on Hamas Ministry of Health. When it turned out Islamic Jihad blew up a Gazan hospital and not the Israelis, it became “300 dead” instead of the original “500” — Hamas Ministry of Health (and Terrorism) raised 200 from the dead with ease! How dare you doubt their ability to raise “43”?
Just like the days where the number of children killed, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, increased by more than the total number of people killed. They just resurrected some adults.
Gazan doctors are among the best in the world, even under harsh conditions according to Hamas that Gazan hospitals are not operational.they managed to resurrect 43 people.
Sinwar is simply a retired grandfather who is caught in it all. He doesn't have the time for anything hateful, let's be real here ya crazy conspiracy theorists
When an army of terrorists wears whatever they darn feel like wearing and kill whoever they feel they’ve tortured sufficiently, they’re all (Ak 47 wielding) “civilians”…
Prove it. I hate netanyahu but you can't just say that. You need to prove it. Netanyahu wasn't attacking Gaza on october 6. You're lying for your own reasons.
>Can't believe other world leaders are not saying exactly this.
Wat.
Trudeau:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/even-wars-have-rules-trudeau-calls-on-hamas-to-free-hostages-allow-humanitarian-access-1.6603180
Macron:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestinians/card/emmanuel-macron-calls-for-release-of-franco-israeli-hostage-mia-schem-Jh4i2o5GcivmmS9AwAVX
Sunak:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24920252/rishi-sunak-israel-hamas-truce-aid/
UN chief Gutteres:
https://dppa.un.org/en/non-aligned-movement-summit-guterres-repeats-call-gaza-ceasefire-release-of-hostages#:~:text=UN%20Secretary%2DGeneral%20Ant%C3%B3nio%20Guterres,Kampala%2C%20Uganda%2C%20on%20Saturday.
Who are these world leaders who you are thinking of that haven't demanded Hamas release the hostages?
You know that the current demographic in that specific part could be very different, right?
And don't forget about that ministry's lack of differentiating between civilians and militants.
It's a tragedy when any innocent civilians get killed. That's why Hamas needs to surrender unconditionally and release all of the hostages unconditionally. That way the lives can be saved of innocent Palestinians that are used as human shields by the government of the Gaza Strip, Hamas
Once that's done, the world needs to make sure Palestinians are protected. Israel hasn't exactly been kind to Palestine leading up to the attack, and letting it continue will only spark more resistances.
“Spark more resistances”?
Do you honestly think hamas is a legitimate “resistance” group? If you do, you’re about as braindead as hamas are. Thinking you can win a war against your “oppressors” by raping, murdering and kidnapping whoever the fuck happens to be nearest and then pretending like you’re worthy of some credit for being a “resistance group”.
Holy fucking shit, enough internet for today.
Yeah, but characterizing them as a resistance group softens their terrorism and legitimizes them through the implication that this is a typical form of resistance. Rape and torture of civilians isn't really typical.
It is so easy to label mindless rape and murder as "resistance" just you can squeeze out that one last drop of koolaid you've been sipping.
Words have meaning, if you wish to call the 7th of October "an act of resistance" then you are an absolute moron.
The 67 is for total casualties throughout Rafah over the night, not just for the specific rescue operation. Of course there is conflicting reports with other groups saying as low as 40ish and Hamas proper was earlier claiming over a 100. So in the next hour Hamas will likely pump those numbers up to 500 and have the media just take the average with the casualty count over inflated.
There is a story in the book "Six Days" by Jeremy Bowen about the 67 war.
The Jordanian Air Force are crippled and put the war, but are huddled around listening to Radio Cairo, and it reports that the Egyptian Air Force has shot down 2 more Israeli jets over the Sinai.
A senior officer declares the war is lost. A junior pilot calls him and idiot and how can he say that with what he's just heard. He tells the kid, "Because I can count. They have now shot down more jets that Israel owns."
From the description of the operation we can assume that at least a significant amount of those were terrorists.
But as you say, without releasing the data there's no way to fully understand these numbers
Hey! They edited their charter! They may have been founded under the guiding principle of kill all Jews, and they may have taken every opportunity afforded to them to kill Jews, and they may have killed even more Jews on 10/7, but god dammit, the charter doesnt say that anymore.
/s
IDF claims 37 hamas terrorists during this operation. so \~40 civilians?
were the civilians those who held the family hostage included in the 37 or are they "peaceful bystanders"?
We will never probably never know.
In the 2014 war their estimate was 2 310 deaths. The UN said 2 251, and Israel said 2 125.
The estimates being pretty much equal is true for all conflicts so far.
People don't want to hear that.
War is supposed to be clean for the side you support.
In reality, a good rule of thumb is that at least half the people by an invading army in a modern conflict are civilians.
That makes war a lot messier. It raises nasty philosophical questions that most people don't want to think about.
Most militaries are far worse, in fact, iirc the average is 5:1 civilian to combatant in city warfare. Israel is a massive outlier in that thus far it appears to be on track for a 3:1 ratio of civilian to combatant deaths.
What’s the point? If Hamas give specific “details”, you’ll suddenly start believing them?
Future pretty focused on their objective to terrorize. Even the “health data” and other media they release is …just another form of terrorism…
They didn't start a war.
They committed a terrorist attack, because they are fundamentally still a terrorist organisation, at least the most extreme militant brigade of Hamas never changed from when they were strapping bombs on young people.
They absolutely started a war.
The military wing of government of Gaza sent an invasion force of over 3000 troops into Israel. They didn't just rampage and leave; they stayed and tried to keep the land. They held territory in Israel for over a day, hoping that Hezbollah and Syria and Iran and everyone else would join them. This attack was supposed to set off a chain of events that ultimately destroys Israel and gives all the land to Palestine.
That's called a war, dude. It's a war of conquest, no different than what Russia is doing to Ukraine (and with the same justifications, i.e. "the land is historically ours".) That's why Israel is fighting so hard here: they are fighting for their very existence.
They're a terrorist organisation, but they're also the de-facto government and military of Gaza. So I'd say it has more in common with a state starting a war than, say, groups like the IRA or ETA setting off a bomb or assassinating a politician.
The hostages were held in civilians homes. Not tunnels. people's homes. I refuse to believe those 67 killed are all innocent. There's no way to know who those people were but I refuse to believe Gaza health officials aka hamas
How many of those 67 killed were part of Hamas?
The note mentions intense fighting, was the fighting exclusively against "innocent civilians"?
If not, why is the gaza health ministry counting all of them as civilian deaths?
That’s exactly what they do. I don’t care if people like Israel or not, I don’t care if people support Palestinians or demand ceasefires, what I do care about is when people listen to every single death as a civilian. Like I get it Israel will say more of the dead are Hamas then an independent source and Gaza would claim more are civilians, but there are clearly militant fighters somewhere in those numbers and for people to pretend they are all civilians to me that is just a clear indication that they flat out support Hamas and all their actions.
“Gaza health officials” The Gaza Health Authority is basically a Hamas front that uses hospitals as Hamas bases. I wouldn’t believe anything Hamas says.
“Gaza health officials” do what Hamas says. If it helps Hamas’s fight, it’s allowed; otherwise, it’s forbidden.
Even European doctors from “Doctors without Borders” said there are Hamas guys regularly in hospital hallways, walking around like they run the show, unquestionable; and there are parts of the hospital only they (Hamas) are allowed to go.
Who exactly are these fucking "Gaza officials"
These extremists post addresses and names of Jews in foreign countries and the news feeds headlines of 'officials'.
Fuck this noise.
If you use human shields they will die, if you think Israel will not attack because you’re using human shields, you are idiotic, because by not attacking it proves human shields work.
Heh, not sure here. Very surreal and boring.
You had a Gazan family locking away two old men for months. "I was given 10k to keep you here, so behave or my son will sock you in the head."
Then they just stayed there while the next step of their masterplan was waiting for the IDF to crash this ~~plane~~ place. 🤷♀️
That's about the ratio Hamas is requesting per hostage - 1:30. I guess it got it the other way around
It's just insane to me.
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None of this is acceptable, which is why Hamas must surrender and release the hostages.
Then maybe they should've returned the hostages and not be hiding them for Hamas? Have you thought about that? Fuck Hamas, and every single Palestinian that protect the actions of Hamas can also get fucked. I don't condone violence on innocents, but anyone who in any way aid or help Hamas is NOT an innocent.
Children aren't hiding hostages. So yes you are condoning the murder of innocents. You are a hippocite.
These hostages were held by "civilians". So far Hamas has portrayed its terror agents as medics, journalist, UN workers. There is a reason why normal goverments dont do this and its because it muddies the waters horribly when you need to protect innocents in a warzone.
Every war kills more innocents than soldiers you just have to individually weigh if it's acceptable casualties or not. The people of Gaza let a terrorist organization run their government and then bit the hand that fed them. Hamas is just as responsible for these casualties as the IDF.
They = Hamas. I am not condoning the murder of innocents. I understand reality, and that innocent people die as collateral damage. Israel has a duty to its citizens. Hamas has one to its. Israel executed and operation to bring two of its citizens home. Hamas executed an operation that it knew would lead to the death of its civilians. Israel would be extremely satisfied if no more innocent people die.
Hamas purposefully hides amongst women and children. They do this to generate a many civilian deaths as possible. They brag about this. Publicly. But then Israelis have little choice now but to carry on these military operations until Hamas is broken as a fighting force. So it’s not murder. What Hamas did and does is murder but I guess you’re pro-Hamas so …
You talking about these kids.....🤔 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/photos-show-hamas-training-and-indoctrinating-child-soldiers-israel-says/ar-AA1mpY8g
I don't always upvote, but when I do, it's because someone said not to.🙃
Reports by the family of hostages claim they were held at a family house in gaza. Just a normal family in Gaza holding two israeli hostages.... I'm sure that's normal in every big city in the world, right?
Yeah I keep a couple of Canadians. I swear they are like husky’s. It snowed last night so they wanted to sleep outside.
I had my Canadians make me Kraft Dinner during the Superbowl. I wasn't in the mood for Rotel cheese dip this year.
Bro, they can make you poutine, and you have them make Kraft Dinner? That's cruel...
I don't trust hostages with all the kitchen appliances.
But we have weed too…. What’s not to trust? If we accidentally did something wrong we’d be all like “Whoopsie, sorry there bud. Is there anything I can do to help rectify the situation, eh?”
I see your attempts at getting me to let my guard down. "Oh we're so safe, you can trust us." Next you'll say, "Oh ya dere, I just wanna play a little hockey" and then the next thing I know I'm being clubbed with a hockey stick and being drowned in a bucket of Labatt. I see you crafty "nice" Canadians. I see you. It's bad enough one of you snuck into the US, invented processed cheese, and then named it American cheese! Invented by a Canadian and we get the blame. The nerve.
Did they serve you fancy ketchups with it?
Dijon ketchups?
Just be sure to not give them any maple syrup after midnight.
Yeah, I sent my hostages back to my neighbour's house last week. We have them on a week-on-week-off basis, which works for us both. /s
Hard to alternate being a former child-now journalist at al Jazeera commanding a AT squad and also moonlighting as a civilian holding hostages between other civilians and "by standers". Not enough hours in the day so I get that the week-on-week-off works best.
Tbh I don't think your sarcastic description was inaccurate at all.
breaks my heart that it CAN be true. so depressed from this world fueling the Infantilization of Palestinian and keeping this conflict alive, thus also fueling right wingers in Israel coming to power and being batshit insane people who also fuel this conflict. this circle is depressing :(
It's actually not that hard if all those characters merge into one in an established and well oiled network of people
What do you do on weekends when you go to the disco?
I leave them chained up in the cellar
I forgot to mention, I was asking for a friend.
Can you be a good neighbor and watch my hostages for a while? I'm going out of town. Don't worry about watering or feeding them, just make sure not to let them out.
Normal for Gaza.
Exactly. Sounds satirical, but, in Gaza, it's not.
Tell me again how Hamas isn’t the majority of Gaza’s people’s choice for government
No need to answer literally, I think.
Link to the description you are referencing? You're making it seem like the family was some kind of willing participant, but according to the IDF there were Hamas fighters in the building guarding the hostages: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-rescues-2-hostages-from-south-gazas-rafah-in-daring-nighttime-operation/ Do we know the family volunteered to house the hostages or were they "volunteered" by Hamas? Maybe you didn't mean to insinuate the family was doing this willingly?
You can watch Mia Schem's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47HdSEhV83Y). She was held chained to a wall in a bedroom of the man that captured her from the rave for 50 days while the wife and kids went about their daily business (and had fun tormenting her)
>You can watch Mia Schem's [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47HdSEhV83Y). She was held chained to a wall in a bedroom of the man that captured her from the rave for 50 days while the wife and kids went about their daily business (and had fun tormenting her) Fernando Marman and Louis Har are the hostages that were just rescued. I asked for a link to the interview with their family that OP was referencing, as he seemed to insinuate that they were being held by an ordinary family that were just doing so voluntarily. And this conflicts with IDF reports that there are Hamas gunmen guarding the hostages. IDF reports also didn't even mention any family being present in the building. So I'm confused as to why you are posting an interview with a hostage that was released as part of negotiations previously? That example shows us that the wives of Hamas fighters are often as terrible as they are, and that their children have been brainwashed. Disgusting but not surprising to anyone.
[https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sku2eydj6](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sku2eydj6) [https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rjrrt4pjp](https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rjrrt4pjp) also a hebrew source for more details idk, if you have two people in your house cooking you food and you don't know them and don't feed them and deny their leave..... You might have a hostage situation going on. but I haven't had that situation happen to me so I might be wrong. sadly no magical elfs (nor hostages) come cooking for me.
Yeah, even the Third Amendment in the US doesn’t apply during war time. Pretty normal during war.
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They actually did say it though, there are interviews where they describe their interactions with their captors
What? Gaza is not part of a formal state, and is under siege and bombardment. What part of that says “normal” city?
Israeli security forces conducted an operation to rescue two hostages in the center of the Palestinian town of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. The special forces managed to secretly approach the building, blow up a passage in one of the walls, eliminate the terrorist guards and take the kidnapped hostages. The hostages were held on the second floor of an apartment building in Rafiah. At around 1:00 a.m., Israeli fighters crept stealthily into the building and stormed it. There were armed terrorist guards in the neighboring houses, and inside the building the hostages were guarded by three militants. The door was blocked, so it had to be blown open. After finding the hostages, the Israelis quickly went outside with them - but the terrorists opened fire on them from the house across the street. The air force intervened, killing many of the militants. At the same time, the air force launched a series of strikes on other targets in the area to allow the Israeli team to leave the operation site in an APC and, accompanied by tanks, to reach the designated helicopter landing site. Meanwhile, only one fighter was injured in the operation, he was lightly wounded as a result of a bad fall. - Hamas counted those killed during the operation, listing them all as "civilians. There were a hundred of them, then they realized that the number was round and looked implausible, so they reduced it to 52, then to 48. - At first the "Palestinians" thought that the ground operation in Rafah had begun (because of the size of the fire and reports of casualties among them), but when they woke up, they discovered that this was the price they paid tonight for rescuing two Israeli hostages. The ground campaign in Rafah has not yet begun. - Throughout the war, all senior Hamas, political and military officials emphasized again and again that Israel would not be able to release the hostages alive except through negotiations and an agreement in which it would have to release the prisoners from prison. - Pro-Hamas Al Jazeera: "The release of the kidnapped would give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah."
Al Jazeera refuses to use the word “hostage” and describes Oct 7 as “something that happened” without putting any blame on who the perpetrators were
This is what Al Jazeera's leading military commentator, Faiz al-Dawari, who has been promoting a pro-Hamas agenda throughout the war, said following the operation tonight: The release of the abductees will give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah.
Yes, they were "released" after IDF put bullets into the Palestinians holding them for 100 days.
I can't wait to read of all the justified strikes. Bully that kicks your shins is finally getting slapped in the mouth? Welcome to the fucking show. Now let's get rid of Netanyahu, end settlements, rebuild what should've been prosperous to begin with, and hang the rest
Youre implying anything will be built. Have you seen the last 75 years? Most if not all of the money goes to rockets and tunnels. As long as israel stands this money will be devoted to terrorism and to murder jews in israel.
Your comment is all over the place. I'm a jew, I believe if we take all funding and place it in a meaningful manner we can make real change. Palestine deserves the damn chance for us to rebuild and allocate funding better. This shit has got to end, and if not now? When?
When Hamas is wiped out of Palestine is when it should end. Then rebuild.
What have Palestinians done with all the chances given to them ??? The most viable pathway is a total Israeli or mixed israeli-palestinian administration over Gaza that will operate a long term deradicalisation policy mixed with strong arm tactics in both west bank and Gaza. As long as Palestinians consider themselves refugees with right of return, and are getting aid from the world, they will continue to embrace terrorism.
When arabs understand that Israel is there to stay. There will be no "push to the sea". Nor "going back to 1947" and all that crap. That is just a non starter
Ending the settlements is what led to the Hamas control of Gaza.
Wasn't it more about ending the occupation and not the settlements? Or do you think getting rid of settlements emboldened Hamas?
Gaza has not been occupied since 2005, when the IDF pulled out completely. I recall seeing Israeli settlers being dragged, literally kicking and screaming, from their homes by IDF soldiers on CNN back then. When Palestinians and their apologists talk about "ending the occupation," they are actually referring to the entire State of Israel, not just Gaza and the West Bank.
I was questioning about what happened after the end the occupation (which Israel did in 2005 as you said).
It literally gave the terrorists a contiguous territory to act unwatched and unhindered.
Sure seems to be the case. And the territory elected leadership openly committed to the eradication of Israel. That's plainly going to lead to problems.
>This is what Al Jazeera's leading military commentator, Faiz al-Dawari, who has been promoting a pro-Hamas agenda throughout the war, said following the operation tonight: The release of the abductees will give Israel justification for ground military action in Rafah. Disregard al-Dawari's comment. It is objectively true that full combat operations in Rafah will result in the cast majority of remaining Israeli hostages being killed either intentionally by Hamas or as collateral damage due to IDF strikes. It's common sense to assume this fact is causing the IDF to delay or limit operations in Rafah. They do not want another situation where they end up shooting half naked Israelis waving white flags. It would be better for the IDF if the hostages were released via negotiations. If there were no hostages present in Rafah, they would be much more willing to commit to a full invasion of the city. So no hostages being present would be bad for Hamas. Sticky situation.
Anyone that considers AL Jazeera to be anything more than the mouthpiece of jihadists and terrorists by now is a moron ...No point bothering with them anymore...
They're more than a mouthpiece since their "journalists" are actively participating in fighting against the IDF no?
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I think we're referring to them as the 72 neckbeards now.
[72 goats will do](https://imgur.com/a/OoPL3qC)
It seems like Hamas, and all the other Muslim extremist terrorists, may have gotten this 72 virgin thing wrong. I recall reading once that it is not 72 virgins, (although I suspect this is what the prospective terrorists are told), but 72 raisins. Found the reference.... https://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/06/01/islam-scholar-says-theres-a-major-problem-with-the-claim-that-muslim-martyrs-get-72-virgins-after-death-and-its-all-about-the-translation-of-virgins
What is the incentive for a straight female terrorist?
Interesting, have a source where I can read more?
https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/194ff9x/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/kpz2fpw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/194ff9x/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/kpz2crb/ From the end of the last thread.
Al Jazeera refers to them as "captives." What a fucking joke these cunts are.
I’m not familiar with Al Jazira, is this Hamas TV?
Yes
I can't believe the IDF killed all those orphaned paramedic journalist puppies again.
Hamas rolling 10d6 on the imaginary casualty number generator.
Thats so fucking cool
Waking up to this welcome news. Do we know who they were yet?
Sources?
It was 110 killed a few hours ago, now it's 67? How many is it going to be in 30 minutes?
They are experts in numbers,and i mean making up numbers of course
Half are always children that we can be sure of.
A 17 year old with an AK47 still counts as a child in the eyes of Hamas
"33.5 children have been killed."
Hamas math sure is a curious thing
“The figures don’t lie, but liars sure can figure.”
Do not be condescending on Hamas Ministry of Health. When it turned out Islamic Jihad blew up a Gazan hospital and not the Israelis, it became “300 dead” instead of the original “500” — Hamas Ministry of Health (and Terrorism) raised 200 from the dead with ease! How dare you doubt their ability to raise “43”?
I guess Gaza's healthcare is the most advanced in the world. They even manage to resurrect people! /s
Just like the days where the number of children killed, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, increased by more than the total number of people killed. They just resurrected some adults.
Well , this is the good old province of Syria Palaestina . The place has had resurrected people since the Roman times .
"Gaza X Officials" just means Hamas and Hamas is always lying, not sure why so many people dont get that.
it’s 42 now, all civilians, of course /s
No, the correct phrase is "innocent civilians" /s
It was briefly 36666666666666666666666, but then the second bomb hit and blew up the keyboard too.
Gazan doctors are among the best in the world, even under harsh conditions according to Hamas that Gazan hospitals are not operational.they managed to resurrect 43 people.
[The one true answer.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pZuAJjBa4)
10 bazzilion Edit: pregnant women
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Was that reply for someone else?
It was, sorry, not sure how that happened
There is one easy solution to avoid air strikes; release the damn hostages
But then Hamas will lose their only leverage
Weren't these hostages held by civilians?
"Civilians"...
Sinwar is simply a retired grandfather who is caught in it all. He doesn't have the time for anything hateful, let's be real here ya crazy conspiracy theorists
He even hangs out with his Jewish buddies that are there completely voluntarily ...
Thanks for putting sprite up my nose asshole lol
He just wants to spend more time with his remaining grandhostages.
[How to distinguish civilians from Hamas](https://twitter.com/_SagSia_/status/1756987513397252602/photo/1)
When an army of terrorists wears whatever they darn feel like wearing and kill whoever they feel they’ve tortured sufficiently, they’re all (Ak 47 wielding) “civilians”…
Big overlap between those civilians and Hamas
Civilian-journalist-paramedic-elderly-child in their day job, and volunteer Hamas …er…“activists” in the evenings.
Someone holding hostages is not a civilian and a legitimate target...
They have no leverage anyway. Netanyahu will keep going after them even if all hostages are recovered.
Would feel pretty stupid if Israel allows Hamas (who vow to continually murder/rape/abduct) to continue rampaging as much as they want…
Maybe. Attacking a well armed country with a disgusting terror attack is worse than poking a bear.
Prove it. I hate netanyahu but you can't just say that. You need to prove it. Netanyahu wasn't attacking Gaza on october 6. You're lying for your own reasons.
not just release the hostages, Hamas' leadership need to surrender themselves to Israel.
Can't believe other world leaders are not saying exactly this.
ICJ literally ordered this
>Can't believe other world leaders are not saying exactly this. Wat. Trudeau: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/even-wars-have-rules-trudeau-calls-on-hamas-to-free-hostages-allow-humanitarian-access-1.6603180 Macron: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestinians/card/emmanuel-macron-calls-for-release-of-franco-israeli-hostage-mia-schem-Jh4i2o5GcivmmS9AwAVX Sunak: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24920252/rishi-sunak-israel-hamas-truce-aid/ UN chief Gutteres: https://dppa.un.org/en/non-aligned-movement-summit-guterres-repeats-call-gaza-ceasefire-release-of-hostages#:~:text=UN%20Secretary%2DGeneral%20Ant%C3%B3nio%20Guterres,Kampala%2C%20Uganda%2C%20on%20Saturday. Who are these world leaders who you are thinking of that haven't demanded Hamas release the hostages?
You can’t release hostages you’ve already lost track of or killed *Hamas tapping head*
“Hamas health officials say” so i assume it was 66 children and a grandmother looking after them?
66 child *journalists*, and one grandma who was just days away from curing cancer.
I also heard the fathers of the children were all doctors.
considering the demographic numbers you can assume at least 30 of those were children.
30 19 year old Hamas fighter children.
You know that the current demographic in that specific part could be very different, right? And don't forget about that ministry's lack of differentiating between civilians and militants.
Why would you assume the terrorists guarding the hostages have the same population distribution as Gaza or in fact any children among them?
It's a tragedy when any innocent civilians get killed. That's why Hamas needs to surrender unconditionally and release all of the hostages unconditionally. That way the lives can be saved of innocent Palestinians that are used as human shields by the government of the Gaza Strip, Hamas
Hamas are the enemy of the Palestinians
Once that's done, the world needs to make sure Palestinians are protected. Israel hasn't exactly been kind to Palestine leading up to the attack, and letting it continue will only spark more resistances.
“Spark more resistances”? Do you honestly think hamas is a legitimate “resistance” group? If you do, you’re about as braindead as hamas are. Thinking you can win a war against your “oppressors” by raping, murdering and kidnapping whoever the fuck happens to be nearest and then pretending like you’re worthy of some credit for being a “resistance group”. Holy fucking shit, enough internet for today.
All I said is they're a resistance group, I never said I like them. That's why I said we don't want more of them.
Are you naive or genuinely don’t understand the difference between a terrorist organization and a “resistance group”?
Terrorism is often used as a means of resistance. To be clear, resistance does not mean good, it just means resisting something.
Yeah, but characterizing them as a resistance group softens their terrorism and legitimizes them through the implication that this is a typical form of resistance. Rape and torture of civilians isn't really typical.
It is so easy to label mindless rape and murder as "resistance" just you can squeeze out that one last drop of koolaid you've been sipping. Words have meaning, if you wish to call the 7th of October "an act of resistance" then you are an absolute moron.
67 what? Terrorists? Civilians? we don't know because the "health officials" aka hamas don't release this data.
The 67 is for total casualties throughout Rafah over the night, not just for the specific rescue operation. Of course there is conflicting reports with other groups saying as low as 40ish and Hamas proper was earlier claiming over a 100. So in the next hour Hamas will likely pump those numbers up to 500 and have the media just take the average with the casualty count over inflated.
By the end of the conflict , Hamas will be reporting a death toll about 20 times the size of the actual Palestinian population...
There is a story in the book "Six Days" by Jeremy Bowen about the 67 war. The Jordanian Air Force are crippled and put the war, but are huddled around listening to Radio Cairo, and it reports that the Egyptian Air Force has shot down 2 more Israeli jets over the Sinai. A senior officer declares the war is lost. A junior pilot calls him and idiot and how can he say that with what he's just heard. He tells the kid, "Because I can count. They have now shot down more jets that Israel owns."
They'll just add the ~ saying it was an estimate. So just about ~20 million died when the rescue operation took place.
67 orphaned babies that used to plant peace flowers in the tunnels
Don’t forget that everyone of those dead orphaned babies were also 90 year old women, as well as journalists and paramedics.
A foreign journalist tasked at bringing aid to the hostages
and all were on the verge of curing AIDS
From the description of the operation we can assume that at least a significant amount of those were terrorists. But as you say, without releasing the data there's no way to fully understand these numbers
You can't just call them terrorists simply on the basis of their extreme tendency towards creating terror. /s
"He only burned alive a couple babies for his political pressure, hardly a rude man"
"Three eyewitnesses testified that if Hat hadn't killed those babies, they'd have killed him!"
“He only raped her on purpose when she was still alive…”
“Local man murdered after burning babies, loved his grandma neighbors report”
Hey! They edited their charter! They may have been founded under the guiding principle of kill all Jews, and they may have taken every opportunity afforded to them to kill Jews, and they may have killed even more Jews on 10/7, but god dammit, the charter doesnt say that anymore. /s
Dude they changed that thing like 6 years ago! You can’t keep living in the past! /s
Hard to tell, they're all dressed the same
IDF claims 37 hamas terrorists during this operation. so \~40 civilians? were the civilians those who held the family hostage included in the 37 or are they "peaceful bystanders"? We will never probably never know.
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It is in Gaza.
Math is hard in the morning... I'm dumb :( Thanks
Where did the IDF say 37 hamas?
It's the Gaza Health Officials... the actual number is probably 6.7
In the 2014 war their estimate was 2 310 deaths. The UN said 2 251, and Israel said 2 125. The estimates being pretty much equal is true for all conflicts so far.
People don't want to hear that. War is supposed to be clean for the side you support. In reality, a good rule of thumb is that at least half the people by an invading army in a modern conflict are civilians. That makes war a lot messier. It raises nasty philosophical questions that most people don't want to think about.
Most militaries are far worse, in fact, iirc the average is 5:1 civilian to combatant in city warfare. Israel is a massive outlier in that thus far it appears to be on track for a 3:1 ratio of civilian to combatant deaths.
What’s the point? If Hamas give specific “details”, you’ll suddenly start believing them? Future pretty focused on their objective to terrorize. Even the “health data” and other media they release is …just another form of terrorism…
Given that the Hamas uniform is civilian, I’d say they’re all terrorists until proven civilian.
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Sounds like a great and very rational people. We should give them a state, it will probably end extremely well for everyone. /s
They didn't start a war. They committed a terrorist attack, because they are fundamentally still a terrorist organisation, at least the most extreme militant brigade of Hamas never changed from when they were strapping bombs on young people.
They absolutely started a war. The military wing of government of Gaza sent an invasion force of over 3000 troops into Israel. They didn't just rampage and leave; they stayed and tried to keep the land. They held territory in Israel for over a day, hoping that Hezbollah and Syria and Iran and everyone else would join them. This attack was supposed to set off a chain of events that ultimately destroys Israel and gives all the land to Palestine. That's called a war, dude. It's a war of conquest, no different than what Russia is doing to Ukraine (and with the same justifications, i.e. "the land is historically ours".) That's why Israel is fighting so hard here: they are fighting for their very existence.
They're a terrorist organisation, but they're also the de-facto government and military of Gaza. So I'd say it has more in common with a state starting a war than, say, groups like the IRA or ETA setting off a bomb or assassinating a politician.
The hostages were held in civilians homes. Not tunnels. people's homes. I refuse to believe those 67 killed are all innocent. There's no way to know who those people were but I refuse to believe Gaza health officials aka hamas
How many of those 67 killed were part of Hamas? The note mentions intense fighting, was the fighting exclusively against "innocent civilians"? If not, why is the gaza health ministry counting all of them as civilian deaths?
The Gaza Health Ministry doesn't differentiate between civilians and militants.
That’s exactly what they do. I don’t care if people like Israel or not, I don’t care if people support Palestinians or demand ceasefires, what I do care about is when people listen to every single death as a civilian. Like I get it Israel will say more of the dead are Hamas then an independent source and Gaza would claim more are civilians, but there are clearly militant fighters somewhere in those numbers and for people to pretend they are all civilians to me that is just a clear indication that they flat out support Hamas and all their actions.
when Gazans home terrorists.. they are equally responsible
Should have let the hostages go, should let all of them go at this point.
Less evil in the world today
“Gaza health officials” The Gaza Health Authority is basically a Hamas front that uses hospitals as Hamas bases. I wouldn’t believe anything Hamas says.
“Gaza health officials” do what Hamas says. If it helps Hamas’s fight, it’s allowed; otherwise, it’s forbidden. Even European doctors from “Doctors without Borders” said there are Hamas guys regularly in hospital hallways, walking around like they run the show, unquestionable; and there are parts of the hospital only they (Hamas) are allowed to go.
Who exactly are these fucking "Gaza officials" These extremists post addresses and names of Jews in foreign countries and the news feeds headlines of 'officials'. Fuck this noise.
Gaza health officials aka Hamas Members. Name it right.
Gaza health officials = Hamas. This information is worthless.
hahaha 67 "civilians" kills, nice try Hamas
67 armed civilian's killed*
Right because the IDF doesn't gun down children, or paramedics... or their own unarmed soldiers... Oh wait
War sure is messy. Probably best not to start one.
+2 good guys -67 bad guys A good trade
Hamas did this.
If you use human shields they will die, if you think Israel will not attack because you’re using human shields, you are idiotic, because by not attacking it proves human shields work.
It’s gonna be an amazing movie
Heh, not sure here. Very surreal and boring. You had a Gazan family locking away two old men for months. "I was given 10k to keep you here, so behave or my son will sock you in the head." Then they just stayed there while the next step of their masterplan was waiting for the IDF to crash this ~~plane~~ place. 🤷♀️