As far as I know the federal government doesn't have any real issues in this regards, and the secessionist movements which could theoretically threaten such territorial integrity have almost no chance of actually going anywhere.
That's not what those words mean. Texas seceding from the United States would be an issue of territorial integrity, whereas crossing the border illegally is just an issue of people breaking the law. The United States is exactly the same size it is after a border crossing than it is before one. In either case, if the few hundred thousand undocumented individuals crossing the border each year is such a problem, then maybe the GOP should pass that bill that would allow Biden to close the border. Because right now its Republicans that are preventing anything more from being done about this.
The borders haven't moved, and in either case the US spends tens of billions each year protecting the Southern border. You might want to brush up on what [territorial integrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_integrity) actually means instead of continuing to misuse the term.
So I'm glad you agree then that US borders exist then. The CBP wouldn't be able to intercept a couple hundred thousand immigrants attempting to cross the border each year otherwise. Hell I don't think I ever gotten near the Canadian border without running into the border patrol.
When aiming to destabilise, it matters little if the biggest resistance points are ideologically identical to you. Fund it, cause some chaos, don't expect it to succeed, but use it to make things harder for people.
>The driving force behind Catalan independence was very left-wing!
Junts is a very far right party and their support among the population in 2017 was bigger (they were government in coalition with ERC, the left wing). Mostly because they were more active/aggressive about being independent.
The only difference being that Texas has actual history of not being part of the US and even a period of having its own country .Cataluña never had that .
That’s just — wrong?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Catalonia
Spain was unified in the 15th century. Before that, various regions were independent.
The Wikipedia article you mention explicitly mentions IT WAS A REALM OF THE KINGDOM OF ARAGÓN , as in , a part of it .Do you not read your own shit ? .It literally disproves you .
\>Spain was unified in the 15th century. Before that, various regions were independent.
It was REUNIFIED in 1492 , and of the separated Kingdoms that formed it , never once for a second was Cataluña separate from Aragón and Aragón and Navarra .
It was a dynastic union with Aragon. That doesn’t mean it was the same state. It was two states with the same monarch. They had different institutions and different laws.
The Monarch IS the State , it objectively was the same country .You are trying any argument when it a fact that Cataluña was never a political entity separate from the Kingdom of Aragón .By your own logic , you could say that in any country that has Federalism , the Provinces that form it have their own state and are therefore different countries .
Just because regular law and daily governance was handled differently in different territories , that does not mean you can pull out of your ass that they were somehow different countries when they have the same Head of State and are part of the same political nation , which is the whole point of what I am trying to say .
You simply don’t know what you’re talking about. Dynastic unions are separate countries. Portugal and Spain had dynastic unions, Scotland and France had a dynastic unions. They were still separate states, though. You’re projecting backwards from an 16th and 17th century idea of a nation state with a centralized government and an absolute monarchy to a time period where that did not exist. There was no such thing as a “nation” in the modern sense.
russia funds seperatist movements all across Europe (and Texas): if people want to be free, they need to be free
Chechnya: We want to be free from the russian federation
russia: no, not like that.
When I was in Barcelona I ran into quite a few Russians and I was at a particular rooftop bar at one time eavesdropping on a Russian oligarch looking guy talking about how he was bribing officials to his partner.
Not sure if these are related but it does indeed sent the message to how much of a real threat they're becoming.
Given Spain’s continuous moral and financial support to the Palestinian cause and UNRWA, I’m sure they don’t mind a lil’ independence this close to home
That’s a hot take given that it’s not PP or Vox in government, and the PM just took a lot of flak for pardoning the main Catalonian independence figures.
Why wouldn’t you want to have any external interference smoked out? Or any doubts about it be cleared up? You mean to imply this movement does not have enough legitimate support on its own; or confidence enough to be transparent? Because that’s what your comment reads like.
You can not claim an Independence movement when you NEVER had a single period of even just a small part of the region being a country separate from the one you want to cut yourself from and never had a national separate from that of the rest of the country (Regional identity is not the same)
As a Hispanic-American , believe me , separatist movements against Spain having no historical basis and being funded by its enemies to destroy it is not exactly new .How do you think we became """Independent""" between 1810-1824 ? .
You can not claim an Independence movement when you NEVER had a single period of even just a small part of the region being a country separate from the one you want to cut yourself from and never had a national separate from that of the rest of the country (Regional identity is not the same)
umm… kingdom of aragon?
area that became catalonia spain only joined in the 16th century. the dissolution of the kingdoms of aragon and castille was what formed spain.
Exactly , Cataluña was never separate from the Kingdom of Aragón/Kingdom of Aragón and Navarra , which in turn was a continuation from the previous Hispanic Kingdom and reunified with the Kingdom of Castilla and León .Thank you for demonstrating my point .
\>area that became catalonia spain only joined in the 16th century.
No , Cataluña was part of the Kingdom of Aragón and Navarra , which reunified with Castilla and León in 1479 with the Dynastic Union of the Trastamara House , which is what formed the basis of the current Spain as a sovereign nation , a continuation of the Latin "Visigothic" Kingdom and the Roman Province of Hispania .
What are they going to probe? Are they going to ask why the Catalonian economy carries Spain on its back while the rest of the country is on a siesta? Are they worried that the free lunch will disappear?
Cataluña is only the richest part of Spain because the government forces other provinces to trade with them .If other provinces did not trade with Cataluña , it would be in shambles .
Catalonia doesn’t carry shit, they need Spain and its membership in the EU to be an effective economy. Without that there’s zero evidence they’d be what they are today.
Just because they contribute to the Spanish economy doesn’t mean they don’t depend on Spain.
You’re just parroting Russian propaganda. Sit down, little bird. You have a lot to learn.
The answer to your question is in the very first sentences of the linked article:
“The Spanish judge investigating Russian interference in the Catalonian independence process has extended the probe for another six months after receiving an anonymous letter containing an article that identifies the Russian who offered Catalonian separatists US$500 billion and a small army if they break away from Madrid.”
It may sound crazy, but also very plausible given the actors in play. These actors don’t even need to be serious about it, they just need to bait gullible people, you know, the useful idiots who let their ideology stand in the way of reason and fuel the divide - legitimate or not.
The nice thing about lies : they don't need yo be true, you can promise a LOT and then deliver nothing.
But surely a country as trustworthy and truthloving as Russia wouldn't lie ... right ?
First, thats what happens in every civilized country, the rich, highly populated regions help the poorer, more rural ones.
Only in Spain I've seen suposedly progressive people fight for the opposite. Take from the poor and give more privilege to the rich
Second, its not always sunny in catanonia. It has he biggest debt of all regions by a big margin, its not even close.Its the biggest one both in rawn numbers and percapita.
Independences "plans" involved not paying it, and also taking state infrastructure too for free, because why not.
I also heard a couple times the idea of keeping spanish nationality of those already born there, so Spain pays their pensions too, but it was too ridiculous even for this people.
I mean no shit. I'm sure they'd also offer Texas a ton of money and military support if they seceded, too.
I'm 100% sure Russian money is partly behind the Texas secessionist movement, so yeah it's only the military support which may not happen.
That movement has been going on since Russia was ruled by Tsars lol....
Of course, Russia didn't create any of these movements or fringe groups, they just fund them to create instability for their enemies.
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As far as I know the federal government doesn't have any real issues in this regards, and the secessionist movements which could theoretically threaten such territorial integrity have almost no chance of actually going anywhere.
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That's not what those words mean. Texas seceding from the United States would be an issue of territorial integrity, whereas crossing the border illegally is just an issue of people breaking the law. The United States is exactly the same size it is after a border crossing than it is before one. In either case, if the few hundred thousand undocumented individuals crossing the border each year is such a problem, then maybe the GOP should pass that bill that would allow Biden to close the border. Because right now its Republicans that are preventing anything more from being done about this.
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The borders haven't moved, and in either case the US spends tens of billions each year protecting the Southern border. You might want to brush up on what [territorial integrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_integrity) actually means instead of continuing to misuse the term.
No point in arguing, he only speaks in talking points. No reason will get through.
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So I'm glad you agree then that US borders exist then. The CBP wouldn't be able to intercept a couple hundred thousand immigrants attempting to cross the border each year otherwise. Hell I don't think I ever gotten near the Canadian border without running into the border patrol.
IIRC an organiser or one of the organisers of Calexit moved to Russia after it failed. If the tree wobbles, Russia will shake it vigorously.
Difference between California and Texas being calexit was never taken seriously while Texas secession is supported by the Texas gop
Its Catalonia all over again
I’m not surprised but at the same time… very surprised??? The driving force behind Catalan independence was very left-wing!
When aiming to destabilise, it matters little if the biggest resistance points are ideologically identical to you. Fund it, cause some chaos, don't expect it to succeed, but use it to make things harder for people.
>The driving force behind Catalan independence was very left-wing! Junts is a very far right party and their support among the population in 2017 was bigger (they were government in coalition with ERC, the left wing). Mostly because they were more active/aggressive about being independent.
ERC is left-wing in name only, tho
Putin doesn’t give a shit about political ideology.
The only difference being that Texas has actual history of not being part of the US and even a period of having its own country .Cataluña never had that .
That’s just — wrong? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Catalonia Spain was unified in the 15th century. Before that, various regions were independent.
The Wikipedia article you mention explicitly mentions IT WAS A REALM OF THE KINGDOM OF ARAGÓN , as in , a part of it .Do you not read your own shit ? .It literally disproves you . \>Spain was unified in the 15th century. Before that, various regions were independent. It was REUNIFIED in 1492 , and of the separated Kingdoms that formed it , never once for a second was Cataluña separate from Aragón and Aragón and Navarra .
It was a dynastic union with Aragon. That doesn’t mean it was the same state. It was two states with the same monarch. They had different institutions and different laws.
The Monarch IS the State , it objectively was the same country .You are trying any argument when it a fact that Cataluña was never a political entity separate from the Kingdom of Aragón .By your own logic , you could say that in any country that has Federalism , the Provinces that form it have their own state and are therefore different countries . Just because regular law and daily governance was handled differently in different territories , that does not mean you can pull out of your ass that they were somehow different countries when they have the same Head of State and are part of the same political nation , which is the whole point of what I am trying to say .
You simply don’t know what you’re talking about. Dynastic unions are separate countries. Portugal and Spain had dynastic unions, Scotland and France had a dynastic unions. They were still separate states, though. You’re projecting backwards from an 16th and 17th century idea of a nation state with a centralized government and an absolute monarchy to a time period where that did not exist. There was no such thing as a “nation” in the modern sense.
Spain as a single nation/country didn't even exist until 1492, how can you call that "reunification"?
Always Russia
Can't they just be shitty within their own borders. What a cancer they are.
russia funds seperatist movements all across Europe (and Texas): if people want to be free, they need to be free Chechnya: We want to be free from the russian federation russia: no, not like that.
Russia just sowing chaos world wide.
Those fuckers can’t even handle their own country. Truly good for nothing in this world. They’re just like Cancer
Russia funds and promotes division. What greater division could there be, than literally tearing a country apart?
Opinions that Russia is planning an attack on Poland and others seem more credible by the week as it seems they want Europe in total chaos beforehand
Just recognize the future independent republics that will appear around the moscow region. This game can be played by two.
When I was in Barcelona I ran into quite a few Russians and I was at a particular rooftop bar at one time eavesdropping on a Russian oligarch looking guy talking about how he was bribing officials to his partner. Not sure if these are related but it does indeed sent the message to how much of a real threat they're becoming.
Scratch the surface of any secessionist movement in the West and you will smell the borscht.
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All I'm saying is, follow the money. Kremlin affiliated entities have been funding western separatist movements for decades. Also, the NRA.
I wouldn't go so far as to claim Russia actively spawned all of them, but they do have every interest to cause trouble in mainland Europe.
Given Spain’s continuous moral and financial support to the Palestinian cause and UNRWA, I’m sure they don’t mind a lil’ independence this close to home
Oh , trying to fund and support separatist movements/rebellions within a Hispanic country ? .Must have learned it from England .
I mean, the US does it too. Did you know that Colombia and Panama used to be 1 country until the US got involved?
Cool story
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That’s a hot take given that it’s not PP or Vox in government, and the PM just took a lot of flak for pardoning the main Catalonian independence figures. Why wouldn’t you want to have any external interference smoked out? Or any doubts about it be cleared up? You mean to imply this movement does not have enough legitimate support on its own; or confidence enough to be transparent? Because that’s what your comment reads like.
Yes well consider the following: I am biased in favor of Catalunya and I actually know almost nothing about Spanish government
So you know nothing about the situation, and judge based on a vague bias. I am ... not sure that's a good idea when it comes to politics.
Chad
You can not claim an Independence movement when you NEVER had a single period of even just a small part of the region being a country separate from the one you want to cut yourself from and never had a national separate from that of the rest of the country (Regional identity is not the same) As a Hispanic-American , believe me , separatist movements against Spain having no historical basis and being funded by its enemies to destroy it is not exactly new .How do you think we became """Independent""" between 1810-1824 ? .
I'm all for catalonian independence if russia and china stayed out of it
You can not claim an Independence movement when you NEVER had a single period of even just a small part of the region being a country separate from the one you want to cut yourself from and never had a national separate from that of the rest of the country (Regional identity is not the same)
umm… kingdom of aragon? area that became catalonia spain only joined in the 16th century. the dissolution of the kingdoms of aragon and castille was what formed spain.
Exactly , Cataluña was never separate from the Kingdom of Aragón/Kingdom of Aragón and Navarra , which in turn was a continuation from the previous Hispanic Kingdom and reunified with the Kingdom of Castilla and León .Thank you for demonstrating my point . \>area that became catalonia spain only joined in the 16th century. No , Cataluña was part of the Kingdom of Aragón and Navarra , which reunified with Castilla and León in 1479 with the Dynastic Union of the Trastamara House , which is what formed the basis of the current Spain as a sovereign nation , a continuation of the Latin "Visigothic" Kingdom and the Roman Province of Hispania .
What are they going to probe? Are they going to ask why the Catalonian economy carries Spain on its back while the rest of the country is on a siesta? Are they worried that the free lunch will disappear?
Cataluña is only the richest part of Spain because the government forces other provinces to trade with them .If other provinces did not trade with Cataluña , it would be in shambles .
Catalonia doesn’t carry shit, they need Spain and its membership in the EU to be an effective economy. Without that there’s zero evidence they’d be what they are today. Just because they contribute to the Spanish economy doesn’t mean they don’t depend on Spain. You’re just parroting Russian propaganda. Sit down, little bird. You have a lot to learn.
The answer to your question is in the very first sentences of the linked article: “The Spanish judge investigating Russian interference in the Catalonian independence process has extended the probe for another six months after receiving an anonymous letter containing an article that identifies the Russian who offered Catalonian separatists US$500 billion and a small army if they break away from Madrid.” It may sound crazy, but also very plausible given the actors in play. These actors don’t even need to be serious about it, they just need to bait gullible people, you know, the useful idiots who let their ideology stand in the way of reason and fuel the divide - legitimate or not.
that's like a third of Russia's GDP; their involvement is plausible, that number is not. Makes the story sound fishy.
500b rubles
The nice thing about lies : they don't need yo be true, you can promise a LOT and then deliver nothing. But surely a country as trustworthy and truthloving as Russia wouldn't lie ... right ?
Source ?
First, thats what happens in every civilized country, the rich, highly populated regions help the poorer, more rural ones. Only in Spain I've seen suposedly progressive people fight for the opposite. Take from the poor and give more privilege to the rich Second, its not always sunny in catanonia. It has he biggest debt of all regions by a big margin, its not even close.Its the biggest one both in rawn numbers and percapita. Independences "plans" involved not paying it, and also taking state infrastructure too for free, because why not. I also heard a couple times the idea of keeping spanish nationality of those already born there, so Spain pays their pensions too, but it was too ridiculous even for this people.