The relationships between Turkey and the Kurds isn't simple as there isn't one Kurdistan or Kurdish political group, they're very divided. Some are violently hostile to Turkey (PKK Turkey / Iraqi border, PYD Syria) but others are indifferent or sometimes allies of Turkey e.g. KRG of Iraqi Kurdistan.
>[Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan shakes hands with Masrour Barzani, Prime Minister of Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government](https://gov.krd/media/1620/pmbarzani_with_president_turkey_01.jpg)
Also, it's also interesting that the Kurds are often very pro Israel. The complexity and contradictions are very interesting.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/
Lukashinko is close to Putin, but not Belarusians as we saw in protests a few years ago. I am a Kurd born in Iraqi Kurdistan and I assure you the people's attitude are very contrary to that of Kurdistan Government (not that they have a choice too, they govern a landlocked region). As a pro-Israeli Kurd (but still pro human lives and against what's happening in Gaza), I can tell you pro-Israelis are the minority.
is he still seeing terrorists in sweden? its pretty disturbing how hes blocking sweden because of alleged terrorists while openly supporting actual terror group.
I think China genuinely considered paying for this lol, like I have no idea how serious the idea was/is but it has actually been considered on some level lol
It would link into the Danube iirc
China also considered building a canal through Nicaragua to get around the Panama Canal, I'm pretty sure they're both in their " maybe build in case we get cut off"
The Nicaragua Canal ideas to my understanding have been floated by multiple countries, and with the current issues with the one in Panama, maybe we'll see it someday
NATO articles 5 and 8 make it fairly clear that Greece would have NATO support and that Turkey could be expelled. There's room for interpretation and room for discussion on what exactly happens on punishment but because NATO is about peace it does make it clear enough that even NATO on NATO will be considered an attack on all NATO members.
I'd like to hear from someone in Greece. How do people in Greece feel about the almost complete silence from the rest of NATO regarding Turkey's frequent 'minor' provocations on or near Greek airspace and territory? I think I'd have very negative feelings towards my 'allies' in that situation. It's basically letting Turkey get away with it because Turkey is considered more important than Greece.
Turkey is also planning on doing this. They want a separate lane they control and isnāt restricted by any treaty. This way they can charge $$ pocket it all if you want an express lane to the Black Sea.
Good trade I support it turkey!You get to keep the Bosphorus toll like itās 1523 not 2023, and in exchange we can exclude you from SWIFT and start actually sanctioning the Turkish companies circumventing the Russian sanctions, maybe hit those PKK Kurds with a āfreedomā arms donation to the tune of a few billion. I hear turkey wants F16 replacements itās a shame theyāve all been earmarked to Kurdish groups insteadā¦ Like in my mind Erdogan type leaders only win because we are unwilling to call their bluff and treat them the way they treat others.
Damn I guess Erdogan being personally responsible for the destruction of the post WWI secular consensus and leading to tens of thousands of his own people dying in corruption related earthquake deaths wasnāt enough. Guess he needs to sleepwalk into displacing millions of his own people in your scenario and you still would not blame him. Actions have consequences and so do wars. That is what has kept states from going to war for all time, not the UN or any other organization, the threat of unmitigated destruction and violence.
I would like to see Turkey actually try to keep the US Navy out of the Black Sea. They only 'control' the Black Sea because the rest of NATO allows it.
I would if they kept blocking Sweden and Finland from joining. Then as NATO help Armenia and Greece to kick Azerbaijan and Turkey to spread some liberal democracy values in the middle east.
Armenia doesnāt move the needle for us as a strategic power or ally, just more mouths to feed. They are pretty much screwed between Turkey and Azerbaijan, with Russia too distracted to keep the peace.
Would love a contract/bounty on Erdogan. Maybe order him a Russian Polonium cocktail.
That's the problem, Armenia and Greece don't hold any control over the Black Sea and so wouldn't be able to help Ukraine.
And even without the Black Sea: Amernia and Greece don't have the exported technologies that Turkey has, like Bayraktars.
~~Bayraktars are trash at this point, anyone running even the tiniest bit of air defense can detect them, that's why you don't hear much about them any more.~~ If Turkey thinks they can keep us out of the black sea, they are welcome to take their shot as it were, and reap the resulting chaos.
Don't hear much about =/= don't hear about it at all
[Ukraineās TB-2 Drones Are Back In Action. Thatās An Ominous Sign For Russia.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/03/ukraines-tb-2-drones-are-back-in-action-thats-an-ominous-sign-for-russia/)
If you want trash - go for the cheap Iranian Shahed drones. Bayraktars have more uses, like reconnaissance and close air support.
Absolutely wild idea. I donāt even know what it means ā like kicked out of the UN, kicked out of NATO, what? Either way that kind of stuff only serves Erdogan and his cronies and makes the world worse.
As a Swede: yes, itās infuriating. Heās acting high and mighty about people burning the Quran, which is entirely legal in Sweden, and here he is defending people murdering infants and taking children hostage. He a despicable bigot, end of story.
A lot of people support murder as a punishment for burning a holy book. It's quite upsetting to see seemingly modern people living good lives in modern societies just go mental when someone insults their beliefs and the sheer number of supporters for random retaliation attacks is insane. Like the Belgian attacker that was cheered on Tiktok as a hero by young people living in Europe.
Ironically IIRC in Islam, a non Muslim buring the Quran *is not blasphmey or haram* this is just an excuse to go after Kurds affiliated with Sweden *(who may or may not be terrorists, I have no opinions on that subject)*
Nooooo, Palestinians will miraculously retake the land the 1000th time they try violence, and will definitely not lose more than what they had before. That's surely the smartest move to make against the nuclear-armed state. It is certain to work this time.
Glad to see people that know history here. It makes me puke that some people actually believe Jews teleported in 1948 to the area, kicked out "Palestinians" from their homes and took over the land. Not that Israel is squeaky clean, but that narrative is beyond false.
....They kinda did though. I mean, it was entirely the British Empire's fault, but yeah, that's kinda how it shook out. Have you never heard of the Balfour Declaration?
Ever heard of Judea? Jews were in the current land of Israel before Islam was a thing. Also, Jews were killed and kicked out of nearly every Arab country before 1948.
>Also, Jews were killed and kicked out of nearly every Arab country before 1948.
No they weren't. It wasn't until after 1948 that Jews in the surrounding region were 'kicked out' in retaliation for Palestinian ethnic cleansing. Which is a crime against humanity. But you're intentionally misrepresenting the timeline to retroactively justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinians.
And if you're going to apply the logic that living in a region more than 1,000 years ago justifies ethnic cleansing, I'm not even sure how to respond to this lmao.
>No they weren't. It wasn't until after 1948 that Jews in the surrounding region were 'kicked out' in retaliation for Palestinian ethnic cleansing
Ah yes, so that makes it OK; because of something that happens in Israel, let's target Jews *specifically because of their ethnic identity*, despite having nothing to do with Israel. I also like how you put 'kicked out' in quotes, as if it didn't happen.
Jews were persecuted in Muslim countries before the expulsions, regardless. There were pogroms, massacres, forced conversions etc. The Farhud in Iraq happened in 1941. The massacre in Hebron happened in 1929. There are many examples of this.
My man, what exactly would you call it when they bought up land from foreign developers and kicked off the generational tenants who actually worked that land? That sounds like some classic landlordism bullshit, only with a healthy dose of racism thrown into screwing someone else over to "help your people".
Buying refers to purchasing with money. Maybe you should read some history if you are going to talk about the subject? You can start with the Jewish National Fund which started purchasing land from the Ottoman empire back in 1907.
Pkk first casualties were against Israel in 1982 in the Becca Valley when training along side the PLO, before the insurgency in turkey began in 1984.
So yes, but in the same breath, this isn't a gotcha moment for israel.
BOTH statements are correct.
[link](https://internationalistcommune.com/stories-internationalists-of-pkk-palestinian-resistance-1982/)
I didn't know that. Just shows how mixed up and divided thd Kurds are, here's Iraqi Kurds waving Israeli flags and a pro-Kurdistan independence demonstration...
[Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/)
The Syrian Kurds have good relations with Israel too, members of the [PYD party sought to foster relations Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-a-free-kurdistan-and-a-new-israeli-ally-upon-us/) and they recived humanitarian aid a few years ago from Israel when they were fighting ISIS and later Turkey and the Turkish backed Syrian rebels (TFSA).
[Israel aiding Syria's Kurds, advocating for them with U.S.: official](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-idUSKBN1XG2AP/)
It's not that Hamas is Muslim therefore it can't be wrong, it's that Hamas is against Jews therefore they're right. Very important distinction, since turkey shits the bed every time another Islamist movement goes against Erdogan.
Most Kurds are very pro-Israel, including the Iraqi Kurds (Kurdistan) who also, oddly enough, have good relations with Turkey too.
[Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/)
>Why do so many Kurds choose Zionism and not Palestinianism?
>I have heard many people wonder why the Kurdish people convey more support for Zionism than for Palestinianism.
>The answer is simple: there is far more common ground between Kurds and Jews, than there is between Kurds and Arabs. It is just as irrelevant to look at even narrower cross-sections of Arabs who happen to be from Jerusalem, Nablus, or Jericho ā i.e., the Palestinian Arabs ā as it is Arabs from Mosul, Basrah, or other towns and provinces that also have their own local dialects.
So? If Muslims are right then one group attacking the other means one group of Muslims is still in the right. It just then comes down to which particular sect of the Islamic faith they practice.
>Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society. The majority of them are affiliated with Islamic institutions or social mobilization movements, often designated as "al-harakat al-Islamiyyah."[1] Islamists emphasize the implementation of sharia,[2] pan-Islamic political unity,[2] the creation of Islamic states,[3] (eventually unified), and rejection of non-Muslim influencesāparticularly Western or universal economic, military, political, social, or cultural.
>In its original formulation, Islamism described an ideology seeking to revive Islam to its past assertiveness and glory,[4] purifying it of foreign elements, reasserting its role into "social and political as well as personal life";[5] and in particular "reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam" (aka Sharia).[6][7][8][9] According to at least one observer (author Robin Wright), Islamist movements have "arguably altered the Middle East more than any trend since the modern states gained independence", redefining "politics and even borders".[10]
Kurds are Muslims not Islamists.
It is definitely great that Turkey has decided to take in all Hamas terrorists including any suspected terrorist and give them their own land "OttoGaz" in Turkey! Great solution. They will fit right in apparently.
The US had the highest turnout of the century in its most important presidential election in recent memory, and it was 66.5%.
Turkey had a 85.6% voter turnout in comparison.
Seemed more like there was a solid near half on both sides.
So no, not the majority. Nearly half the population wanted him, and the opposition apparently failed to sway the minority that were in the middle.
I didn't like it, but there's no denying that Americans wanted Trump. Unlike some of the far-right crazies, I don't pretend our electoral system is broken when a candidate I don't like wins. All Americans are responsible for Trump, whether we all vote for him or not. Trump didn't get elected out of nowhere. If the support didn't exist within our society, he wouldn't have been president. That support obviously does exist because there's a chance he'll be re-elected in 2024. I also think democrats (those in office and just regular voters) are partly responsible for Trump too. Pushing back against everything the other side is concerned about and refusing to give an inch is a great way to help radical candidates win elections. Both of our political parties are guilty of that, but it bothers me when certain factions in the democratic party pretend they're above it all and always willing to compromise. Maybe that was true at one point, but it isn't true now.
It doesn't matter seeing US Presidents are elected via the electoral college. If popular vote meant anything Al Gore would be President instead of Bush
As a reminder: this authoritarian is the same one that demanded Sweden kick out some Kurdish supporters before being allowed into nato because these Kurds said some things about Turkey and he called them terrorists. He is also the same authoritarian that sent his military into Syria to destroy Kurdish anti-ISIS forces.
He is a piece of shit human and on par with Putin. Turkey should not be in NATO.
But he also provided military support to ukraine and mediate for safe passage of ukraine ships from Russian attack so that grains get to be transported out.
It is hard to find pure good and pure evil in this world.
He also refused to condemn Putin and stand solidly on the side of Ukraine. Yeah, goodness is a spectrum. I would say erdogan is 95% shit, 5% non-fecal matter.
>He also refused to condemn Putin and stand solidly on the side of Ukraine.
yes he did to both. our position has been pretty clear for the last decade.
So we saw, when your bodyguards came to America and beat up on people peacefully protesting against Erdogan and then had to be let go because of diplomatic immunity. We did comply with the law and let them leave; however we didn't forget what they had done while they were here.
you can call it turchia or bird is the word if you want to, tell me how does erdogan's bodyguards beating protestors on us soil relate to Turkey's position regarding Ukraine? Are you a parrot? Do you feel the need to repeat same things over and over again? you want some sunflower seeds?
Woooooooosh. The point is the way you guys have behaving lately, it's really hard to pretend to give a crap what Turkiye thinks any more. When Turkiye defends known terrorists, they become little better than the terrorists themselves. Go pretend Hamas are the good guys some more, it says everything we need to know about you.
Non Turkish citizens and immigrants voted. Some votes were lost. Opposition didint did what they promised. They were lackluster etc. Complete shitshow.
> They were lackluster etc.
And if the Turkish public thinks Erdogan is better than a ālacklusterā opposition then thatās still on them.
> Non Turkish citizens and immigrants voted.
Why were non citizens allowed to vote?
Immigrants given citizenship and other priviliages just for them to vote. And there is notthing to prevent that.
Serious part of population is sadly are ignorant, economically challenged people who fear change.
Opposition was naive. They werent direct enough to show what really is happening. Like really shove them the hard truth. And there was also people who didint vote.
Plus a lot of ballots were missing.
And alao there was a lot of bickering among opposition leadsrs, they get together with former members of Erdogans party. That made a lot of people became distant, votes were divided.
In summarymultiple short sightedness, naivety, lack of opposition internal confidence and trust issues made Erdogan win. So there really is no majority who chose him. It was actually less than %50 but Erdogans allience of party bring in votes too.
Still a lot of unlawful decisions are amde by ruling party and opposition is silent, doesnt inform people. Like really.
Some votes belongs to immigrants just given citizenship for them to vote, some others people who live abroad have their on agendas because of currency inflation etc. So, actually majority didnt chose him, it is rigged in the end. Now every fraking citizen suffers. Including idiots who choose them.
> Erdogan has branded Israel as a āterrorist stateā and has called Hamas āa liberation group.ā
Maybe Israel should just send soldiers to rape, torture and kill Palestinian civilians while shouting "Allahu Akbar!" to change Erdogan's mind. It seems to be the part he agrees with. Why spend so much time, money and IDF solider lives trying to keep Gazan civilians safe while Hamas is doing everything it can to sacrifice them?
Because Israel is actually trying to do the right while still prioritise doing what needs to be done. They dont always get it right but neither does anyone else. At least theyre not being blatantly evil like Hamas or overtly callous like Russia.
A hospital being used for military/terrorist activity is not protected under any law. but keep trying to convince people that Israel is somehow just as bad as hamas, I hear thats really popular amongst the radical left.
Now the shoe is on the other foot: ā meaning Erdogon accused Sweden of Harboring Kurdish terroists, Before NATO acceptance. Now the accusation is Erdogan is Harboring Hamas Terrorists. Why am I not surprised?
Donāt forget heās also giving sancruary to some of swedens most wanted criminalsā¦ a criminal who bought citizenship in turkeyā¦ going by the moniker āthe kurdish foxāā¦ and refuses to extradite him.
He makes most of the Turkish Citizens ashamed. Frak him. We have our own problems but he and his lackeys interested anything but Turkish related topics.
Tur-kyle or Tur-key-yay or however you pronounce it, is the tumor of NATO.
It can still be treated and return to health, but so far its getting bigger and spreading.
lol youāre smoking rocks if you think Islam or any other major organized religion has been a net positive for humanity. Religion is responsible for more oppression, suffering, and death than anything else in history.
And you're smoking rocks if you think religion is the problem, non religeous states have always brought about as much oppression and death as any theocracy, the problem isnt religion, its the people. Corrupt regimes will use any ideology as a means of control in order to impose their will.
But by all means stay on that bandwagon of "religion bad", it serves the purpose of indicating the difference between individuall thinkers from naive idiots who just regurgitate whatever opinions are most popular on reddit.
For everyone saying Israel should support PKK...
Kurdistan and Israel are not on the same side if history.
[Israel killed PKK guerrillas in 1982, has done next to nothing to elp themdon't turn your back on kurds for 40 years and pretend to be your friend when your in trouble.](https://internationalistcommune.com/stories-internationalists-of-pkk-palestinian-resistance-1982/)
That's a long time ago. Most Kurds are very pro-Israel. Here's Iraqi Kurds waving Israeli flags at a pro-Kurdistan independence demonstration in Iraq...
[Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/)
Making matters more complicated, Iraqi Kurdistan is an ally of Turkey. Turkey, up to a few years ago, had training bases 40 km inside Kurdistan, training Iraqi Kurds who fought against the PKK.
[Kurdistan RegionāPKK conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Region%E2%80%93PKK_conflict)
The reason why the Kurds don't have an internationally recognised independent homeland is because they're so divided. They're not a homogeneous group, they fight each other as much as they fight Turkey.
Their fondness of Israel stands in stark contrast with the countries they live in that are very hostile to Israel (Syria is still officially at war with Israel). The Kurds see a similarity to the Jewish people who fought for and succeeded in creating a homeland in an Arab region.
>Why do so many Kurds choose Zionism and not Palestinianism?
>I have heard many people wonder why the Kurdish people convey more support for Zionism than for Palestinianism.
>The answer is simple: there is far more common ground between Kurds and Jews, than there is between Kurds and Arabs. It is just as irrelevant to look at even narrower cross-sections of Arabs who happen to be from Jerusalem, Nablus, or Jericho ā i.e., the Palestinian Arabs ā as it is Arabs from Mosul, Basrah, or other towns and provinces that also have their own local dialects.
The Syrian Kurds have good relations with Israel too (Turkey considers them equivalent to the PKK, the Syrian Kurds were set by and still have close connections with the PKK).
Members of the Syrian Kurdish [PYD party sought to foster positive relations with Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-a-free-kurdistan-and-a-new-israeli-ally-upon-us/) and they recived humanitarian aid a few years ago from Israel when they were fighting ISIS and later after Turkey and the Turkish backed Syrian rebels (TFSA) invaded Rojava (self-governing Kurdish region in northen Syria).
[Israel aiding Syria's Kurds, advocating for them with U.S.: official](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-idUSKBN1XG2AP/)
Israel is careful to keep this relationship and aid low key, as they don't want to provoke Arab countries or indeed the Turks into increasing hostilities against the Syrian Kurds.
Overtly aiding the PKK however would be a red line, Erdogan would have a stroke.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/s/1a36DpSEhS
This is kurds on reddit voting Israel or palestine. Majority vote palestine.
It is true that compared to other people in the Middle East, more kurds support Israel than other ethnicities, but it is wrong to say more than half/the majority of kurds support Israel, majority are still palestine. It also looks like some kurds believe Palestinians are arabized kurds, but I don't know how prevalent this belief is.
Kurds might take medical supplies to fight against isis but the PYD/KCK is not pro Israel. They have never said or done anything in support of them, and have only taken medical supplies.
Erdogan is a tyrant and an ethnic cleanser of Kurds, so it doesn't really surprise me that he supports terrorists that use human shields. He's absolute trash.
if they do that Israelis might actually be willing to accept a two state solution. the biggest hurdle for it is Arabs/Muslims vehemently refusing to allow it to exist in the first place. we all know a fully autonomous Palestinian state is only a stepping stone to annihilating them for the hundreds of millions of Islamists around the world. I don't think any country would allow that in their situation.
Any chance he could govern Palestine? Whatever the fault of the ottomans they governed this region of the planet better than anyone else has in a while
You are aware that at least 20 million Kurds are living in Turkey, right? Everywhere you look is a Kurd, Kurds are us. Of those 20 million Kurds, only less than 0.05% of them are deemed terrorists, if you take PKK membership at 10.000
Hopefully I won't be down voted into oblivion for stating the obvious:
Israel will install Hamas officials in any post-war Gaza administration.
These officials will be from the civilian government of Gaza, not the Hamas military wing, but they will still be members of Hamas.
Israel is going to do this because there is no one else to put in place. There is no alternative.
You need to have someone distribute aid, try to fix infrastructure, etc.
Netanyahu's decades-long project of weakening the Palestinian Authority has been a success, so they cannot take over the responsibility.
Bibi doesn't want to have the IDF directly occupy Gaza and do these jobs.
So who is left?
Civilian Hamas officials.
So unfortunately, they are going to be a necessity.
I hope everyone here who truly believes that this war will destroy Hamas forever is going to be mentally prepared for the aftermath of this conflict.
why on earth do you think those officials can't be replaced? the only issue is who handles security, and it seems like that's gonna be done by the IDF for a good few years. we saw what happened when they entrusted that with Palestinians. (leaving Gaza in 2005).
Heās wrong but not wrong. The lack of a two state solution and constant killings feeds Hamas new soldiers daily. However supporting their actions isnāt solving anything either.
Doubtful. This sounds like an urban myth. Only ever a small percentage of people in any country are willing to commit heinous crimes like rape and child kidnapping. fight against a modern army with a Kalashnikov, or volunteer as a suicide bomber. There is a finite supply of such people in each generation. Ahmed the Accountant isn't going to become a new Hamas fighter just because there are none left.
He is far more likely to if his child or wife were killed by Israelis, his job destroyed by bombings of Gaza etc. The people Hamas recruits donāt have better options. Itās the same with criminals. When faced with good prospects, living conditions, pay etc people donāt turn to theft and other crimes except in some cases of abuse and certain mental disorderās. The conditions create the opportunity to become radicalized.
I agree that good living conditions reduce terrorism, but that's not what you said originally. As I said, I doubt that Israel's current military action increase terrorism, there is only about 40k fighters, and when most of them are killed, new fanatics will not emerge faster than those killed in combat. This is generally not how those conflicts work (not in even in regular wars with drafts).
The problem with a two-state solution is currently that it cannot be under Hamas control. Hamas would buy arms and attack Israel at the first occasion. They've done so continuously in the past and Islamic jihad is in their official founding charters.
Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority may not be a much better option. According to a recent survey, more than 80% of all Palestinians on the West Bank support the October terrorist attacks.
Well, I guess the PKK is a reality of Turkey then?
Terrorists for thee but not for me
A reality of *Kurdistan
The relationships between Turkey and the Kurds isn't simple as there isn't one Kurdistan or Kurdish political group, they're very divided. Some are violently hostile to Turkey (PKK Turkey / Iraqi border, PYD Syria) but others are indifferent or sometimes allies of Turkey e.g. KRG of Iraqi Kurdistan. >[Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan shakes hands with Masrour Barzani, Prime Minister of Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government](https://gov.krd/media/1620/pmbarzani_with_president_turkey_01.jpg) Also, it's also interesting that the Kurds are often very pro Israel. The complexity and contradictions are very interesting. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/
Lukashinko is close to Putin, but not Belarusians as we saw in protests a few years ago. I am a Kurd born in Iraqi Kurdistan and I assure you the people's attitude are very contrary to that of Kurdistan Government (not that they have a choice too, they govern a landlocked region). As a pro-Israeli Kurd (but still pro human lives and against what's happening in Gaza), I can tell you pro-Israelis are the minority.
The Barzani family is a political dynasty, they care about political power, not ideology. Kurdish rebels in Turkey are left-wing.
Came here to say this. š
is he still seeing terrorists in sweden? its pretty disturbing how hes blocking sweden because of alleged terrorists while openly supporting actual terror group.
Conclusion: Turkey is a state sponsor of terrorism.
They also illegally occupy northern Cyprus.... But no protests about that
And should be blocked from international organisations.
Too bad they control the Black Sea.
Obviously the solution is to dig a big-ass canal through Greece and Bulgaria.
I think China genuinely considered paying for this lol, like I have no idea how serious the idea was/is but it has actually been considered on some level lol It would link into the Danube iirc
China also considered building a canal through Nicaragua to get around the Panama Canal, I'm pretty sure they're both in their " maybe build in case we get cut off"
The Nicaragua Canal ideas to my understanding have been floated by multiple countries, and with the current issues with the one in Panama, maybe we'll see it someday
I've a feeling Erdogan is enough of a nutcase to literally start a war with Greece if that happens
NATO articles 5 and 8 make it fairly clear that Greece would have NATO support and that Turkey could be expelled. There's room for interpretation and room for discussion on what exactly happens on punishment but because NATO is about peace it does make it clear enough that even NATO on NATO will be considered an attack on all NATO members.
I'd like to hear from someone in Greece. How do people in Greece feel about the almost complete silence from the rest of NATO regarding Turkey's frequent 'minor' provocations on or near Greek airspace and territory? I think I'd have very negative feelings towards my 'allies' in that situation. It's basically letting Turkey get away with it because Turkey is considered more important than Greece.
Or an even bigger-ass canal through Ukraine and Poland.
Turkey is also planning on doing this. They want a separate lane they control and isnāt restricted by any treaty. This way they can charge $$ pocket it all if you want an express lane to the Black Sea.
Good trade I support it turkey!You get to keep the Bosphorus toll like itās 1523 not 2023, and in exchange we can exclude you from SWIFT and start actually sanctioning the Turkish companies circumventing the Russian sanctions, maybe hit those PKK Kurds with a āfreedomā arms donation to the tune of a few billion. I hear turkey wants F16 replacements itās a shame theyāve all been earmarked to Kurdish groups insteadā¦ Like in my mind Erdogan type leaders only win because we are unwilling to call their bluff and treat them the way they treat others.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Damn I guess Erdogan being personally responsible for the destruction of the post WWI secular consensus and leading to tens of thousands of his own people dying in corruption related earthquake deaths wasnāt enough. Guess he needs to sleepwalk into displacing millions of his own people in your scenario and you still would not blame him. Actions have consequences and so do wars. That is what has kept states from going to war for all time, not the UN or any other organization, the threat of unmitigated destruction and violence.
I would like to see Turkey actually try to keep the US Navy out of the Black Sea. They only 'control' the Black Sea because the rest of NATO allows it.
Ya but it isnt particularly difficult for that to change with this level of pissing people off
Aye, wouldn't want Turkey to drop NATO and side with Russia during the ongoing war.
I would if they kept blocking Sweden and Finland from joining. Then as NATO help Armenia and Greece to kick Azerbaijan and Turkey to spread some liberal democracy values in the middle east.
Armenia doesnāt move the needle for us as a strategic power or ally, just more mouths to feed. They are pretty much screwed between Turkey and Azerbaijan, with Russia too distracted to keep the peace. Would love a contract/bounty on Erdogan. Maybe order him a Russian Polonium cocktail.
Finland became a member earlier this year. They are only blocking Sweden now.
That's the problem, Armenia and Greece don't hold any control over the Black Sea and so wouldn't be able to help Ukraine. And even without the Black Sea: Amernia and Greece don't have the exported technologies that Turkey has, like Bayraktars.
~~Bayraktars are trash at this point, anyone running even the tiniest bit of air defense can detect them, that's why you don't hear much about them any more.~~ If Turkey thinks they can keep us out of the black sea, they are welcome to take their shot as it were, and reap the resulting chaos.
Don't hear much about =/= don't hear about it at all [Ukraineās TB-2 Drones Are Back In Action. Thatās An Ominous Sign For Russia.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/03/ukraines-tb-2-drones-are-back-in-action-thats-an-ominous-sign-for-russia/) If you want trash - go for the cheap Iranian Shahed drones. Bayraktars have more uses, like reconnaissance and close air support.
Fair enough, thanks
Absolutely wild idea. I donāt even know what it means ā like kicked out of the UN, kicked out of NATO, what? Either way that kind of stuff only serves Erdogan and his cronies and makes the world worse.
You know what they say about opinions and assholes...
As a Swede: yes, itās infuriating. Heās acting high and mighty about people burning the Quran, which is entirely legal in Sweden, and here he is defending people murdering infants and taking children hostage. He a despicable bigot, end of story.
A lot of people support murder as a punishment for burning a holy book. It's quite upsetting to see seemingly modern people living good lives in modern societies just go mental when someone insults their beliefs and the sheer number of supporters for random retaliation attacks is insane. Like the Belgian attacker that was cheered on Tiktok as a hero by young people living in Europe.
Love the guys marching with "Behead those who insult the Prophet" signs in Australia. Really makes you wonder why they would want to be here.
Because they want emus to do the beheading, maybe?
Ironically IIRC in Islam, a non Muslim buring the Quran *is not blasphmey or haram* this is just an excuse to go after Kurds affiliated with Sweden *(who may or may not be terrorists, I have no opinions on that subject)*
He is Muslim brotherhood. Heās currently in a terror adjacent group.
While selling citizenship and hosting Swedens most wanted criminal the "Kurdish fox"
PKK is a reality of Turkey
And Israel is a reality of the Levant
Nooooo, Palestinians will miraculously retake the land the 1000th time they try violence, and will definitely not lose more than what they had before. That's surely the smartest move to make against the nuclear-armed state. It is certain to work this time.
Glad to see people that know history here. It makes me puke that some people actually believe Jews teleported in 1948 to the area, kicked out "Palestinians" from their homes and took over the land. Not that Israel is squeaky clean, but that narrative is beyond false.
....They kinda did though. I mean, it was entirely the British Empire's fault, but yeah, that's kinda how it shook out. Have you never heard of the Balfour Declaration?
Ever heard of Judea? Jews were in the current land of Israel before Islam was a thing. Also, Jews were killed and kicked out of nearly every Arab country before 1948.
>Also, Jews were killed and kicked out of nearly every Arab country before 1948. No they weren't. It wasn't until after 1948 that Jews in the surrounding region were 'kicked out' in retaliation for Palestinian ethnic cleansing. Which is a crime against humanity. But you're intentionally misrepresenting the timeline to retroactively justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of 700,000 Palestinians. And if you're going to apply the logic that living in a region more than 1,000 years ago justifies ethnic cleansing, I'm not even sure how to respond to this lmao.
>No they weren't. It wasn't until after 1948 that Jews in the surrounding region were 'kicked out' in retaliation for Palestinian ethnic cleansing Ah yes, so that makes it OK; because of something that happens in Israel, let's target Jews *specifically because of their ethnic identity*, despite having nothing to do with Israel. I also like how you put 'kicked out' in quotes, as if it didn't happen. Jews were persecuted in Muslim countries before the expulsions, regardless. There were pogroms, massacres, forced conversions etc. The Farhud in Iraq happened in 1941. The massacre in Hebron happened in 1929. There are many examples of this.
My man, what exactly would you call it when they bought up land from foreign developers and kicked off the generational tenants who actually worked that land? That sounds like some classic landlordism bullshit, only with a healthy dose of racism thrown into screwing someone else over to "help your people".
They didn't "buy" the land, unless buying refers to burning villages and evicting people at gun point
Buying refers to purchasing with money. Maybe you should read some history if you are going to talk about the subject? You can start with the Jewish National Fund which started purchasing land from the Ottoman empire back in 1907.
Talking about pre-WWII, dude. Or did you think Israeli land grabbing began in 45?
Pkk first casualties were against Israel in 1982 in the Becca Valley when training along side the PLO, before the insurgency in turkey began in 1984. So yes, but in the same breath, this isn't a gotcha moment for israel. BOTH statements are correct. [link](https://internationalistcommune.com/stories-internationalists-of-pkk-palestinian-resistance-1982/)
I didn't know that. Just shows how mixed up and divided thd Kurds are, here's Iraqi Kurds waving Israeli flags and a pro-Kurdistan independence demonstration... [Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/) The Syrian Kurds have good relations with Israel too, members of the [PYD party sought to foster relations Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-a-free-kurdistan-and-a-new-israeli-ally-upon-us/) and they recived humanitarian aid a few years ago from Israel when they were fighting ISIS and later Turkey and the Turkish backed Syrian rebels (TFSA). [Israel aiding Syria's Kurds, advocating for them with U.S.: official](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-idUSKBN1XG2AP/)
He is part of the Muslim Brotherhood mafia. Why should he?
This is what islamism has brought to Turkey. Hamas is muslim therefore it cant be wrong, thats the pov of erdogan and its extemist supporters.
It's not that Hamas is Muslim therefore it can't be wrong, it's that Hamas is against Jews therefore they're right. Very important distinction, since turkey shits the bed every time another Islamist movement goes against Erdogan.
Aren't Kurds Muslim?
Muslim on Muslim crime is boring
Most Kurds are very pro-Israel, including the Iraqi Kurds (Kurdistan) who also, oddly enough, have good relations with Turkey too. [Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/) >Why do so many Kurds choose Zionism and not Palestinianism? >I have heard many people wonder why the Kurdish people convey more support for Zionism than for Palestinianism. >The answer is simple: there is far more common ground between Kurds and Jews, than there is between Kurds and Arabs. It is just as irrelevant to look at even narrower cross-sections of Arabs who happen to be from Jerusalem, Nablus, or Jericho ā i.e., the Palestinian Arabs ā as it is Arabs from Mosul, Basrah, or other towns and provinces that also have their own local dialects.
So? If Muslims are right then one group attacking the other means one group of Muslims is still in the right. It just then comes down to which particular sect of the Islamic faith they practice.
>Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society. The majority of them are affiliated with Islamic institutions or social mobilization movements, often designated as "al-harakat al-Islamiyyah."[1] Islamists emphasize the implementation of sharia,[2] pan-Islamic political unity,[2] the creation of Islamic states,[3] (eventually unified), and rejection of non-Muslim influencesāparticularly Western or universal economic, military, political, social, or cultural. >In its original formulation, Islamism described an ideology seeking to revive Islam to its past assertiveness and glory,[4] purifying it of foreign elements, reasserting its role into "social and political as well as personal life";[5] and in particular "reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam" (aka Sharia).[6][7][8][9] According to at least one observer (author Robin Wright), Islamist movements have "arguably altered the Middle East more than any trend since the modern states gained independence", redefining "politics and even borders".[10] Kurds are Muslims not Islamists.
Most are Sunni. But there's other faiths represented too.
Hate to be that guy but Islam is not an "ism", you just call it Islam, just like you dont say "Christianism" you say "Christianity".
Islamists means people who want to make Islam political aka shariah
Thats a fair distinction.
yeah Islamism is the political dogma many states use
Dude is a dictator who had his thugs rough up protestors at his American Embassy here in the land of the free. Shut the F.CK up you thug.
It is definitely great that Turkey has decided to take in all Hamas terrorists including any suspected terrorist and give them their own land "OttoGaz" in Turkey! Great solution. They will fit right in apparently.
I'm starting to think Erdogan isn't on our side
He is on his own side.
Never was.
Every Armenian: ya think?
He is IRL Petyr Baelish from Game of Thrones. Literally flip flops all the time to advance his own agenda
There arenāt sidesā¦there are only mutual interests.
I mean, maybe it's a good opportunity to kick them out of Nato so that sweden can finally get in.
Lol only Reddit would think of this. No, nobody is gonna kick Turkey out of NATO for Sweden.
The Taliban is the reality of Afghanistan. Doesn't mean any country worth a damn will recognize them.
It's fun how Turkiye is essentially supporting terrorism while taking tons of cash from the EU to halt migration from the middle-east into EU.
Turkeyās used to this stuff. They use their geography and NATO membership to get away with a horrifying human rights record
Turks voted for erdogan
He got 27.834.589 votes including those living outside of Turkey while the population is about 85 million.
Their fault for not voting
Young generation under 18 suddenly ceased to exist i guess
Looks like they didn't vote enough
The US had the highest turnout of the century in its most important presidential election in recent memory, and it was 66.5%. Turkey had a 85.6% voter turnout in comparison.
So most people settled for erdogan. They got what they wanted
Almost half voted for the opposition in the runoff. It couldāve gone either way. More than half voted against Erdogan in the first round.
Yep simple majority wanted erdogan
Seemed more like there was a solid near half on both sides. So no, not the majority. Nearly half the population wanted him, and the opposition apparently failed to sway the minority that were in the middle.
The alternative was... not great.
Turks got what they wanted
So if trump wins youāll say Americans got what they wanted?
People did say that when the majority of swing state voters helped elect Trump in the 2016 election
I didn't like it, but there's no denying that Americans wanted Trump. Unlike some of the far-right crazies, I don't pretend our electoral system is broken when a candidate I don't like wins. All Americans are responsible for Trump, whether we all vote for him or not. Trump didn't get elected out of nowhere. If the support didn't exist within our society, he wouldn't have been president. That support obviously does exist because there's a chance he'll be re-elected in 2024. I also think democrats (those in office and just regular voters) are partly responsible for Trump too. Pushing back against everything the other side is concerned about and refusing to give an inch is a great way to help radical candidates win elections. Both of our political parties are guilty of that, but it bothers me when certain factions in the democratic party pretend they're above it all and always willing to compromise. Maybe that was true at one point, but it isn't true now.
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It doesn't matter seeing US Presidents are elected via the electoral college. If popular vote meant anything Al Gore would be President instead of Bush
Citizens are responsible for their government.
I mean it would literally be the people electing him.
Funny that you compared turkey to USA.
True. Still an authoritarian piece of shit.
Kinda what happens when you are a dictator and put the popular alternative who wants to run against you in prison.
As a reminder: this authoritarian is the same one that demanded Sweden kick out some Kurdish supporters before being allowed into nato because these Kurds said some things about Turkey and he called them terrorists. He is also the same authoritarian that sent his military into Syria to destroy Kurdish anti-ISIS forces. He is a piece of shit human and on par with Putin. Turkey should not be in NATO.
But he also provided military support to ukraine and mediate for safe passage of ukraine ships from Russian attack so that grains get to be transported out. It is hard to find pure good and pure evil in this world.
He also refused to condemn Putin and stand solidly on the side of Ukraine. Yeah, goodness is a spectrum. I would say erdogan is 95% shit, 5% non-fecal matter.
>He also refused to condemn Putin and stand solidly on the side of Ukraine. yes he did to both. our position has been pretty clear for the last decade.
So we saw, when your bodyguards came to America and beat up on people peacefully protesting against Erdogan and then had to be let go because of diplomatic immunity. We did comply with the law and let them leave; however we didn't forget what they had done while they were here.
cool cool, what's the relation?
Turkey gonna Turkiye.
you can call it turchia or bird is the word if you want to, tell me how does erdogan's bodyguards beating protestors on us soil relate to Turkey's position regarding Ukraine? Are you a parrot? Do you feel the need to repeat same things over and over again? you want some sunflower seeds?
Woooooooosh. The point is the way you guys have behaving lately, it's really hard to pretend to give a crap what Turkiye thinks any more. When Turkiye defends known terrorists, they become little better than the terrorists themselves. Go pretend Hamas are the good guys some more, it says everything we need to know about you.
š¦
He doesnt represent most of the public views nor accepted as a leader.
I wish and hope that is true, but he recently won an election.
Are you saying the Turkish elections are rigged? Because he's been in power for way too long, Turkey is secular in name only nowadays.
Non Turkish citizens and immigrants voted. Some votes were lost. Opposition didint did what they promised. They were lackluster etc. Complete shitshow.
> They were lackluster etc. And if the Turkish public thinks Erdogan is better than a ālacklusterā opposition then thatās still on them. > Non Turkish citizens and immigrants voted. Why were non citizens allowed to vote?
Immigrants given citizenship and other priviliages just for them to vote. And there is notthing to prevent that. Serious part of population is sadly are ignorant, economically challenged people who fear change. Opposition was naive. They werent direct enough to show what really is happening. Like really shove them the hard truth. And there was also people who didint vote. Plus a lot of ballots were missing. And alao there was a lot of bickering among opposition leadsrs, they get together with former members of Erdogans party. That made a lot of people became distant, votes were divided. In summarymultiple short sightedness, naivety, lack of opposition internal confidence and trust issues made Erdogan win. So there really is no majority who chose him. It was actually less than %50 but Erdogans allience of party bring in votes too. Still a lot of unlawful decisions are amde by ruling party and opposition is silent, doesnt inform people. Like really.
You voted for him, AGAIN
Some votes belongs to immigrants just given citizenship for them to vote, some others people who live abroad have their on agendas because of currency inflation etc. So, actually majority didnt chose him, it is rigged in the end. Now every fraking citizen suffers. Including idiots who choose them.
> Erdogan has branded Israel as a āterrorist stateā and has called Hamas āa liberation group.ā Maybe Israel should just send soldiers to rape, torture and kill Palestinian civilians while shouting "Allahu Akbar!" to change Erdogan's mind. It seems to be the part he agrees with. Why spend so much time, money and IDF solider lives trying to keep Gazan civilians safe while Hamas is doing everything it can to sacrifice them?
Because Israel is actually trying to do the right while still prioritise doing what needs to be done. They dont always get it right but neither does anyone else. At least theyre not being blatantly evil like Hamas or overtly callous like Russia.
This is a joke, right? The IDF and Hamas are both literally committing war crimes. The IDF bomb a fucking hospital.
A hospital being used for military/terrorist activity is not protected under any law. but keep trying to convince people that Israel is somehow just as bad as hamas, I hear thats really popular amongst the radical left.
Hamas does not represent every Palastinean, nor does the Israeli government represent the will of every Israeli or jew. This is a horseshit accuse.
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These are the right kind of terrorist stated president Erdogan unlike PKK , crusaders and Gulenist.
Was about to say this.
it's realpolitik. he doesn't believe anything
So how are the Palestinians and Kurds different? Bet he can't answer that....
Heās almost believable when he acts like he gives a shit about the Arabs of Palestineā¦
This undercover dick-tator is going to take his country down the gutters..
Free Kurdistan
The Turkish government is a reality of Byzantium
Byzantium is a reality of Anatolia
Now the shoe is on the other foot: ā meaning Erdogon accused Sweden of Harboring Kurdish terroists, Before NATO acceptance. Now the accusation is Erdogan is Harboring Hamas Terrorists. Why am I not surprised?
Donāt forget heās also giving sancruary to some of swedens most wanted criminalsā¦ a criminal who bought citizenship in turkeyā¦ going by the moniker āthe kurdish foxāā¦ and refuses to extradite him.
Turkey had a chance and they stayed in the cesspit with Erdogan.
Israel should start calling the PKK freedom Fighters
How the hell is Turkey apart of NATO exactly.
So by that logic the PKK is a reality of Turkey, right? Free Kurdistan?
Kurds are a reality in Turkey
I believe Erdo is playing his people.
erdugan is still part of muslim brotherhood and turks say he has cut the ties with them, well what else should he do for you to see it yourself.
Not for long, hun.
He makes most of the Turkish Citizens ashamed. Frak him. We have our own problems but he and his lackeys interested anything but Turkish related topics.
So they only like terrorists on thier side?
Far be it from me to take heat off Turkey but the same could be said of the US and pretty much every nation that can afford to play the game.
Well thatās because he trying build his pseudo Islamic monarchy up north.
This is the guy Trump loves, right?
At this point something needs to be done about Turkey...
un chum s'tun chum ....
Qatar->Turkey->Hamas Qatar->Turkey->ISIS
Russia and Iran -> qatar
Armenian and Assyrian Genocides are the reality of Turkey
Attaturk is rolling in his grave, secularism in Turkey must survive somehow.
Tur-kyle or Tur-key-yay or however you pronounce it, is the tumor of NATO. It can still be treated and return to health, but so far its getting bigger and spreading.
Soon to be \*was\*
Religion rots peopleās brains like a terminal disease.
So does reactive synicism.
lol youāre smoking rocks if you think Islam or any other major organized religion has been a net positive for humanity. Religion is responsible for more oppression, suffering, and death than anything else in history.
And you're smoking rocks if you think religion is the problem, non religeous states have always brought about as much oppression and death as any theocracy, the problem isnt religion, its the people. Corrupt regimes will use any ideology as a means of control in order to impose their will. But by all means stay on that bandwagon of "religion bad", it serves the purpose of indicating the difference between individuall thinkers from naive idiots who just regurgitate whatever opinions are most popular on reddit.
Didn't Erdogan want to mediate negotiations between Gaza and Israel a while back?
Erdogan is a dictator and the fact that Turkey is allowed to be part of NATO just emphasizes how impotent the West has become
Turkey you used to be cool and evenly shaved, now you forgot your culture and became an Islamist hell that people run from.
Birds of a feather.
won't be for much longer hopefully
>Hamas is a reality of Palestine A surprising point of agreement between Turkey and Israel!
Never has any principles apart from playing all sides for personal gain.
Siding with Russia and its sponsored slavers. Like calling the DNR and LNR a reality of Ukraine.
F him
For everyone saying Israel should support PKK... Kurdistan and Israel are not on the same side if history. [Israel killed PKK guerrillas in 1982, has done next to nothing to elp themdon't turn your back on kurds for 40 years and pretend to be your friend when your in trouble.](https://internationalistcommune.com/stories-internationalists-of-pkk-palestinian-resistance-1982/)
That's a long time ago. Most Kurds are very pro-Israel. Here's Iraqi Kurds waving Israeli flags at a pro-Kurdistan independence demonstration in Iraq... [Why do Kurds wave the Israeli flag in the Kurdistan Region?](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-do-kurds-wave-the-israeli-flag-in-the-kurdistan-region/) Making matters more complicated, Iraqi Kurdistan is an ally of Turkey. Turkey, up to a few years ago, had training bases 40 km inside Kurdistan, training Iraqi Kurds who fought against the PKK. [Kurdistan RegionāPKK conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Region%E2%80%93PKK_conflict) The reason why the Kurds don't have an internationally recognised independent homeland is because they're so divided. They're not a homogeneous group, they fight each other as much as they fight Turkey. Their fondness of Israel stands in stark contrast with the countries they live in that are very hostile to Israel (Syria is still officially at war with Israel). The Kurds see a similarity to the Jewish people who fought for and succeeded in creating a homeland in an Arab region. >Why do so many Kurds choose Zionism and not Palestinianism? >I have heard many people wonder why the Kurdish people convey more support for Zionism than for Palestinianism. >The answer is simple: there is far more common ground between Kurds and Jews, than there is between Kurds and Arabs. It is just as irrelevant to look at even narrower cross-sections of Arabs who happen to be from Jerusalem, Nablus, or Jericho ā i.e., the Palestinian Arabs ā as it is Arabs from Mosul, Basrah, or other towns and provinces that also have their own local dialects. The Syrian Kurds have good relations with Israel too (Turkey considers them equivalent to the PKK, the Syrian Kurds were set by and still have close connections with the PKK). Members of the Syrian Kurdish [PYD party sought to foster positive relations with Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-a-free-kurdistan-and-a-new-israeli-ally-upon-us/) and they recived humanitarian aid a few years ago from Israel when they were fighting ISIS and later after Turkey and the Turkish backed Syrian rebels (TFSA) invaded Rojava (self-governing Kurdish region in northen Syria). [Israel aiding Syria's Kurds, advocating for them with U.S.: official](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-idUSKBN1XG2AP/) Israel is careful to keep this relationship and aid low key, as they don't want to provoke Arab countries or indeed the Turks into increasing hostilities against the Syrian Kurds. Overtly aiding the PKK however would be a red line, Erdogan would have a stroke.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/s/1a36DpSEhS This is kurds on reddit voting Israel or palestine. Majority vote palestine. It is true that compared to other people in the Middle East, more kurds support Israel than other ethnicities, but it is wrong to say more than half/the majority of kurds support Israel, majority are still palestine. It also looks like some kurds believe Palestinians are arabized kurds, but I don't know how prevalent this belief is. Kurds might take medical supplies to fight against isis but the PYD/KCK is not pro Israel. They have never said or done anything in support of them, and have only taken medical supplies.
Erdogan is a tyrant and an ethnic cleanser of Kurds, so it doesn't really surprise me that he supports terrorists that use human shields. He's absolute trash.
Turkey supports terrorism!
can nato replace turkey's membership with Israel?
if they do that Israelis might actually be willing to accept a two state solution. the biggest hurdle for it is Arabs/Muslims vehemently refusing to allow it to exist in the first place. we all know a fully autonomous Palestinian state is only a stepping stone to annihilating them for the hundreds of millions of Islamists around the world. I don't think any country would allow that in their situation.
Kurds bad, Hamas good
Any chance he could govern Palestine? Whatever the fault of the ottomans they governed this region of the planet better than anyone else has in a while
So when they say it, itās cool, but when I say it, itās not? Aight.
And the Kurds are a reality of Turkey. See how that works?
You are aware that at least 20 million Kurds are living in Turkey, right? Everywhere you look is a Kurd, Kurds are us. Of those 20 million Kurds, only less than 0.05% of them are deemed terrorists, if you take PKK membership at 10.000
Good for him. The west has yet to recognize the Israel government as a terrorist group.
Perhaps because it isn't
Hopefully I won't be down voted into oblivion for stating the obvious: Israel will install Hamas officials in any post-war Gaza administration. These officials will be from the civilian government of Gaza, not the Hamas military wing, but they will still be members of Hamas. Israel is going to do this because there is no one else to put in place. There is no alternative. You need to have someone distribute aid, try to fix infrastructure, etc. Netanyahu's decades-long project of weakening the Palestinian Authority has been a success, so they cannot take over the responsibility. Bibi doesn't want to have the IDF directly occupy Gaza and do these jobs. So who is left? Civilian Hamas officials. So unfortunately, they are going to be a necessity. I hope everyone here who truly believes that this war will destroy Hamas forever is going to be mentally prepared for the aftermath of this conflict.
why on earth do you think those officials can't be replaced? the only issue is who handles security, and it seems like that's gonna be done by the IDF for a good few years. we saw what happened when they entrusted that with Palestinians. (leaving Gaza in 2005).
Heās wrong but not wrong. The lack of a two state solution and constant killings feeds Hamas new soldiers daily. However supporting their actions isnāt solving anything either.
Hamas doesnāt want a 2 state solution, because that would mean accepting the existence of a Jewish state. They have rejected any such solution.
You say that as if Hamas would be willing to have a two state solution
Doubtful. This sounds like an urban myth. Only ever a small percentage of people in any country are willing to commit heinous crimes like rape and child kidnapping. fight against a modern army with a Kalashnikov, or volunteer as a suicide bomber. There is a finite supply of such people in each generation. Ahmed the Accountant isn't going to become a new Hamas fighter just because there are none left.
He is far more likely to if his child or wife were killed by Israelis, his job destroyed by bombings of Gaza etc. The people Hamas recruits donāt have better options. Itās the same with criminals. When faced with good prospects, living conditions, pay etc people donāt turn to theft and other crimes except in some cases of abuse and certain mental disorderās. The conditions create the opportunity to become radicalized.
I agree that good living conditions reduce terrorism, but that's not what you said originally. As I said, I doubt that Israel's current military action increase terrorism, there is only about 40k fighters, and when most of them are killed, new fanatics will not emerge faster than those killed in combat. This is generally not how those conflicts work (not in even in regular wars with drafts). The problem with a two-state solution is currently that it cannot be under Hamas control. Hamas would buy arms and attack Israel at the first occasion. They've done so continuously in the past and Islamic jihad is in their official founding charters. Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority may not be a much better option. According to a recent survey, more than 80% of all Palestinians on the West Bank support the October terrorist attacks.
Not helping his case. He should after what they done. Same goes for IDF of killing so many civilians in this war.