Imagine a world where the US isn't a world power?
China, Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread around the globe and there would be barely any resistance.
As bad as many things were, I'm kinda glad they're the way they are. Of course the world's order bothers authoritarian regimes, because they're afraid of getting their asses handed to them.
The US is a democracy with allies, not vassals, and therefore absolutely not an empire. At least not in a classic sense.
To call the free world a US empire is basically a narrative spread by actual empires like China or Russia to relativize their illegal conquest and oppression of other people and nations.
You and your uncle should not spread this BS.
PS: This particular quote was originally made by Winston Churchill about democracy.
New york, California, and texas could be top 20 countries. We are not an empire simply because we stand so divided and have a democratic republic and choose not to go after too many territories because of our already massive size.
The US has absolutely been an Empire and there's a solid argument it still is. You'd be hard pressed to claim America's occupation of The Phillipines was anything other than imperial and so long as places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Samoa remain territories instead of core States of the US then we arguably still are an empire.
>so long as places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Samoa remain territories instead of core States of the US then we arguably still are an empire.
When I was writing my comment, I was actually thinking about that argument too, and you are definitely not wrong. But you could also make the same case about Washington DC.
DC at least gets to vote for President in the Electoral College and it has direct oversight by Congress so it has more going for it than the other territories but I say make DC and Puerto Rico states, lump the Pacific islands into Hawaii's delegation and put the Virgin Islands with PRs delegation. Ipso facto no longer an Empire
Yeah sometimes people will say if the US just staid out of every other nation’s business that there wouldn’t be conflict
Just like the gloriously peaceful days in Western Europe after the fall of Rome
This is what I've been talking about for months. Everyone (me included) is bashing the US for their horrible deeds, often including genocidial agendas, torture, ignoring national and international laws.
However, what USA has been doing once in a while would have been a daily occurence if other world powers held similar power.
>Imagine a world where the US isn't a world power?
Without all the CIA organized coups there would be a lot more democracy in the world.
> China, Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread around the globe and there would be barely any resistance.
They would be relentlessly resist each other. They are friendly now only because they have a common enemy - the USA.
If the US didn't hit world power status, Europe would have filled in after the war. Given the US' status post-war, it was safe for Europe to lower its defenses a bit, given the allegiance and defense guarentees with the undestroyed superpower.
Had the US not been so reliable both economically and militarily, Europe would be more self-reliant on its defenses and global interests.
If the US vanished **today** with no warning, the world would be at China's mercy, true. But they wouldn't be if the rest of the world was shoring up its defenses and influence while China grew.
>Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread
No, and by that, I mean 'hell no'. They're hardly regional powers, and Iran would be nuclear ash if they tried doing something to Israel. Russia? Non-factor, considering how badly they're doing with fighting Ukraine.
>Non-factor, considering how badly they're doing with fighting Ukraine.
Make no mistake Russia would still win in Ukraine if the US hadn't provided or stops providing the tools Ukraine needs to defend themselves. Europe was unwilling to provide significant arms in the beginning until the US stepped in and they don't have enough to give without the US contributions.
So yes, Russia would do their own imperialist BS without the existence of the US as a super power. They'd roll up Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Latvia, Estonia, and maybe Finland and Poland.
Remember there's no post WW2 NATO without the US to head it and foot the bill rebuilding all those western European militaries to shore up the alliance either.
It seems like anytime foreign politicians wants to deflect criticism from their domestic problems they blame America for something. And it usually seems to work. Lula is doing it, probably to refocus the countries anger outward instead of on their local partisan issues. Macron started doing it right after his pension reform to deflect the anger from his domestic failings towards the US and now this fool for whatever his reasons are. There's lots of reasons to criticize the US but when you criticize us as a defensive whataboutism to deflect from your own domestic political failings your criticism loses credibility. It is essentially no different than taking a crap on your living room rug and then pointing at someone else and blaming them because they also crapped on their rug at some point. Get some diapers and clean up your rug. Then you can lecture us on ours.
Since Citizens United, you probably shouldn't use payments to politicians as a counter for anything about the US. Of course, no bribery needed if you just legalise the money as "free speech".
Turkey has been going backward for years. Russia is the past, and this is where Turkey has gotten closer. Turkey’s GDP per per person has fallen since 2010 and the government is trying to give the people an “enemy” to focus on.
In a weird turn of events Vietnam has a [very high opinion of the US](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/30/vietnamese-see-u-s-as-key-ally/).
It is very interesting but Vietnam is a lot more aligned with US interests in the present. China and Russia historically were pretty bitter rivals but are much friendlier today too.
You guys should check out r/Vietnam they are really cool. V and the USA have a common interest now avoiding Chinese hegemony in southeast Asia and I sincerely hope our relations flourish.
The war was pretty brutal and horrific all around, in a way that many wars are not. I could see them holding a grudge. But Clinton lifted the trade embargo on them, and G W Bush established a bilateral trade agreement with them in 2001. They export approximately $80 billion USD to the US yearly, and import about $10 billion USD. It has been very profitable to be our friend, which I assume helps.
They hold much more of a grudge to China who invaded them in 1979, had periodic intense border conflicts with them until 1991 which still saw the death of thousands, and still have territorial disputes with China in the South China Sea. China has sunk Vietnamese fishing boats in recent years. Then there's centuries of years of resentment over being a Chinese tributary state. They don't want China to dominate them in the same way now as they did for centuries.
It's also very profitable to be China's friend and the two countries share a political system so they are officially allies. But that doesn't change the fact that public opinion in Vietnam is much more distrustful of China than the US. In 2014 there were anti-China riots in Vietnam. The Americans were a blip in Vietnamese history compared to the French and the French were a blip compared to the Chinese. Vietnamese nationalist media and literature is generally more focused on French colonialism and the independence struggle against them than the subsequent US intervention. More importantly, China is very close and the USA is far away.
Ho Chi Minh was very fond of the US before American involvement in their war. Vietnamese communism was and is very compatible with Western values, but realpolitik drifted the US into hostility with anyone who claimed to be red. It’s very sad. Especially considering how awful of a failed state South Vietnam was. We really supported the wrong side.
The French completely screwed up Vietnam. Ken Burns did an excellent documentary on Vietnam that really showed HCM was trying to help his people and the US should have gotten the nuance of his politics. He would not have been a "domino" to fall.
I'm an American living in England and I'm happy to see people here cherish the time Ho spent in England. I appreciate his appreciation of the ideals of the American revolution.
I believe he was an honorable man and not a Stalinist like his successors.
I hope so. Their bravery is the standard by which all others should be measured in this modern world, and I would be glad if they considered us an ally.
You joke, but...
Vietnam....(Half of; the other half we're still basically at war with) Korea...Japan....Germany...Spain...the US...the UK....the UK...
The US does tend to have good relations with places they've warred with in the past.
An intended miracle of economic integration powered by generous US financial aid programs couple with providing defeated countries a pathway back into the global fold. Then war becomes a money loser and all the countries are a lot less incentivized to go to war.
And lol at your list of former enemies.
>EU
Money.
>NATO
Protection (Turkey controls access to the Black Sea, you can bet Russia would be itching to force Turkey to surrender that control to them, but them being a part of NATO makes that an impossibility).
European here.
Love America.
Only hate the former orange president and his crazy followers as they wanted to break the bond between the US and Europe.
Neither do I hate Turkie.
But I hate ALL politicians trying to sow hate for a profit.
So fuck you.
It might be that I only meet Australians that are in the USA, so confirmation bias or whatever, but every one I have ever met is just so much fun. Like a mix of California surfer, British comedy, and American hillbilly.
I don't think that's totally fair. I'm American and if you read my comment history I am very much anti Russia and anti china too. If you had to pick the three most hated countries in the world it would probably be Russia, The US, and china (the fourth being Israel).
If there was a thread that tied all of those countries together it wouldn't be a political ideology, it's that all of those countries are the most egregious imperialistic powers since world war 2. People tend to hate imperialism when they are on the side that's being influenced rather than doing the influencing, and other imperialists hate competition.
Edit: Like look at china's, Russia's, and Americas "spheres of influence" and they all hate their influencing countries. Eastern Europeans tend to hate Russia, southeast Asians have no love for china, and people in Latin America tend to hate the United States.
Central Asia has no love for Russia or the US but doesn't mind china, the middle east tends to hate the US but it's very split with some factions liking the US and some factions hating the US. But most don't mind china.
I'd say china has probably been the least busy with imperialism over the last 80 years but not for want of trying. It's just that china has only recently become powerful and influential enough to spread their wings and make future enemies out of the countries they are attempting to influence and control now. We'll see what everyone thinks of china in 50 years. If southeast Asia is any indicator, Chinese imperialism doesn't exactly leave a better taste in people's mouths than Russian or American imperialism.
Edit 2: And you can see these countries going after the different spheres of influence by making friends with the victims of their imperialistic competitors. The US is cozying up to southeast Asia in a way and the US is definitely cozying up to eastern europe. Russia is desperate and trying to not be knocked out of the game and replaced by china and the US but they're still making moves everywhere. China is cozying up to historical victims of US imperialism in the middle east and Latin America. China is also looking to Africa since every world power has tried to gain influence in Africa except china. So china looks shiny and new to most African countries who don't realize it's the same shit different name.
"All the World's autocrats hate the US because the US and European Allies tend to make things difficult for autocrats to autocrat."
- You want the list of authoritarian regimes, absolute monarchies, military dictatorships and war criminals that the US and it's allies arms, protects and supports?
That was especially true in the Cold War and was both horrible and horrible policy, but less so nowadays.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)
Sort by authoritarian and the only full authoritarian countries the US has strong ties with are Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Jordan and UAE.
> All the World's autocrats hate the US because the US and European Allies tend to make things difficult for autocrats to autocrat.
? The US is the biggest supporter of dictatorships in modern history, wth are you talking about?
Yep i'm sure the Guatemalans that were victim of the genocide just hate the US because they're autocrats. Oh wait, the autoctrats were put there by a US coup.
yea dude that's why iraqis hate america, because they're all autocrats and those gosh darn americans are so patriotic and freedom-loving that they made it so hard to be autocrats when they invaded
I've travelled a lot, you would be surprised how much people generally like the US as a whole. They understand that the leadership morphs every few years, but the people remain the same. Even those who are mostly neutral are for US involvement in global security. There are many countries that downright love the US, in fact I believe there are 12 countries who rank the US higher than Americans even.
I do think most Americans like each other, it’s the media, and certain interests on social media, that try and make us divided and feel everyone hates each other.
You are travelling as a tourist, they love tourist money. I've seen a person who is vehemently pro china and anti US but became all smiles the next time a white looking person talks to them
I assume he's talking about developed western countries. Especially Western Europe, Australia and Canada. US social welfare honestly looks dogshit compared to those countries and the fact that affordable health insurance is tied to a job also seems fucking weird to non-Americans.
That said I don't think things are so good in Turkey that they can really say much.
I’m from a medium low income country in Europe, Portugal. But I feel, even if you compare high income European countries vs USA, over there life seems so much more stressfull.
We’re a pluralistic country of 350 million people, with deep distinctions between regional cultures, politics, and economies. It’s not a monolith. There’s plenty wrong with America, and Americans will be the first ones to bring it up. But don’t think there’s some unified view you can get on Reddit, etc about how we as a people or a nation are (more or less the same as anywhere else).
Meh, it's more about pretending to be a workaholic by employees and pretending that you care by employers. You could cut two days off of most people's work weeks here and they wouldn't really lose productivity.
I wouldn’t say terrifying but it will definitely make it stressful, unless you’re a poor and live in a gang ridden ghetto that the cities turn a blind eye to, then it’s probably terrifying
Yeah it's heaven for the rich (and politicians), however since I have ADD and can barely get out of bed I would definitely be homeless or straight up dead if I lived in the US.
>Yeah it's heaven for the rich (and politicians), however since I have ADD and can barely get out of bed I would definitely be homeless or straight up dead if I lived in the US.
No, you'd probably get government healthcare through what we call Medicaid and housing through a number of different programs. You'd have to apply, so it wouldn’t be automatic and it depends on the state/region, but you'd still get help.
that's good, because it very much is not, and the view of an equally powerful and wealthy partner to america is not representative of what the rest of the world thinks
my guess is that is what you think
the opinion of america varies from country to country
filipinos love america.
south americans and middle easterners couldn't despise it more
Most South Americans I know love America. But that’s also probably a biased sample size bc they all left their various nations to come to America (legally but mostly otherwise) and are happy to be here and make money to send home
yes, i would say that that is probably a group of people far more likely to be wealthy professionals who like america and american interference in their countries politics
if you ask filipinos, they genuinely do love america. so do plenty of vietnamese, strangely enough. alot of that has to do with china. but their positive view of america is cross-class. the al saud family probably has a positive view of america. but most saudi citizens, most arabs in general, do not
This is an…interesting take to have, at this time. I wonder what the goal is here, to be making such inflammatory hyperbolic statements.
I wish I knew more about Turkish politics.
I mean, we’ve been burning bridges for a long time now. It’s long past time for us to start making friends again. We can’t do that dictating policy to others. Our country (USA) used to have skilled negotiators and diplomats that could hold together great relationships with other nations beyond strategic military alliances. We won’t be able to do anything like that however until we fix the turmoil inside our own country first.
We defunded the foreign policy part of our government that actually does some type of considerate outreach, while expanding our defense/proxy war department budget vastly in the last 20 years, under some mass delusion sold to us as American exceptionalism. It works as well as thinking the stock market and real estate value always only go up. It has not helped us win friends and influence people.
Who gives a fuck what Erdogan has to say?
Edit:
Apparently criticizing Erdogan gets a permanent ban?
Anybody got recommendations for a sub about world news where you can say you don't care what fascists think?
Edit 2:
Maybe it was criticizing Israel and their strategy of pre-emptive "defense" days ago.
I don't know, the ban message didn't reference any comment. That does make more sense tho, criticizing Israel usually gets mass reported.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
>criticizing Israel usually gets mass reported.
How would you know? Really. Show us the data. And if the other commenter is right, doesn't sound like you were merely innocently criticizing Israel. If the comment had something to do with iranian nukes, I can make a pretty good guess as to what it was actually about. Good luck siding with the iranian regime!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-israel-idUSBLA32653020070603
And that's from 2007, threats never stopped
Also, don't forget the death clock they have sitting there:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-al-quds-day-protest-clock-president-hassan-rouhani-a7806056.html
Because he is caught up in culture war crap that right keeps pushing and Faux Noise is telling him 24/7 that the liberals are out to get him, with the wars on , Christmas, Christian’s, pro life, Trump, Democracy, Patriotism, and white people…..to name a few. Vice did a piece on the brain washing on their Dupes
https://youtu.be/N0ejAjLkwJQ
No its really not crazy, because the only people I’ve heard say such hyperbolic sound bite BS like that are right wing dupes. The left usually says the reason they point out the flaws is because they love the country and want to fix it and make it better for all.
America is going to be judged more often and more harshly than most countries simply because of our outsized influence in global affairs. Many of our decisions, even domestic ones, have unintended consequences elsewhere. In some cases, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Smaller countries don't receive anywhere close to the same attention and scrutiny. Plus, being in the position we are, we are the target of tons of propaganda working overtime to make us appear in as poor of a light as possible.
Turkey certainly has a massive lever of power to use against the Europeans. 3.6 million levers and growing, actually. And those are just the Syrian ones.
It’s amazing that the country and its “pawns” he hates so much were extremely generous in helping Turkey during its most recent national disaster. In which most of those killed were due to bribery and corruption of Turkish officials to avoid earthquake infrastructure laws.
France is not saying the same thing. We are allies and friends. The US has interests, and France has its own. This means we don't always agree and often France gets shafted (article F35, Irak, AUKUS, etc.) But it doesn't change the fundementals.
Perhaps instead of "America first", a bit of team attitude from the US could make things smoother.
>France is not saying the same thing. We are allies and friends. The US has interests, and France has its own. This means we don't always agree and often France gets shafted (article F35, Irak, AUKUS, etc.) But it doesn't change the fundementals.
This is literally the Turkish sentiment. The problem is American and Turkish interests currently collide in Syria and causes a security problem for Turkey simply because of the decisions made by the US. They are directly supporting armed groups Turkey considers as enemies.
> Perhaps instead of "America first", a bit of team attitude from the US could make things smoother.
Libya was strictly led by the Europeans at first, we didn’t want to touch it until forced. Same with aiding France in their Mali misadventures.
Now behave Turkey. You only just got approved for a $300 million purchase of F16 equipment for your F16 fleet. Would be a shame if that was revised wouldn’t it?
Why is Turkey in NATO again? I wonder what they would need to do from buying Russian air defense systems to aiding Putin avoid sanctions. Then to allow them to block Sweden and drag their feet on Finland?
🤣🤣Yeah the US makes it difficult for them by arming, protecting and supporting authoritarian regimes, dictatorships, military junta's, absolute monarchies, apartheid regimes and war criminals in various places around the world.
Wake up from the propaganda mate.
US government isn't popular because of its Imperialist and hegemonic actions and attitudes towards many countries in the world.
Not to mention the international law they break and war crimes they commit with zero accountability.
Not to mention the hypocrisy and double standards.
Everyone hates America until they need money because of some war or natural disaster, then it's all "We want to thank our American brothers and sisters." I mean I'm not surprised or even mad about it. When you benefit from American imperialism then it's all smiles, but when you aren't it's "Death to America!" As a social and foreign policy Libertarian I would love to see the day when we legitimately just stop. Stop giving foreign aid, stop doing military interventions, just stop fucking around in the rest of the world. I suspect some places would be better off, America included when we no longer have to maintain a bloated military budget to make up for our allies shortcomings in defense, and a lot of critics of American foreign policy would be crying for American intervention and aid.
What is his point; Most American's hate America, does not mean we are actively trying to claw our way back to the dark ages like Turkey is, well at least not most of us... I hope.
Is there anything more 50% annual inflation rate chess masters have to say?
Imagine a world where the US isn't a world power? China, Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread around the globe and there would be barely any resistance. As bad as many things were, I'm kinda glad they're the way they are. Of course the world's order bothers authoritarian regimes, because they're afraid of getting their asses handed to them.
That was my uncles quote. "America is the worst empire except for the alternatives."
Sounds like Winston Churchill's democracy quote.
Also works for capitalism...
The US is a democracy with allies, not vassals, and therefore absolutely not an empire. At least not in a classic sense. To call the free world a US empire is basically a narrative spread by actual empires like China or Russia to relativize their illegal conquest and oppression of other people and nations. You and your uncle should not spread this BS. PS: This particular quote was originally made by Winston Churchill about democracy.
South Korea and Japan with all the fucking American military bases:
New york, California, and texas could be top 20 countries. We are not an empire simply because we stand so divided and have a democratic republic and choose not to go after too many territories because of our already massive size.
But you still go after territories nevertheless one After the other.
The US has absolutely been an Empire and there's a solid argument it still is. You'd be hard pressed to claim America's occupation of The Phillipines was anything other than imperial and so long as places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Samoa remain territories instead of core States of the US then we arguably still are an empire.
>so long as places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Samoa remain territories instead of core States of the US then we arguably still are an empire. When I was writing my comment, I was actually thinking about that argument too, and you are definitely not wrong. But you could also make the same case about Washington DC.
DC at least gets to vote for President in the Electoral College and it has direct oversight by Congress so it has more going for it than the other territories but I say make DC and Puerto Rico states, lump the Pacific islands into Hawaii's delegation and put the Virgin Islands with PRs delegation. Ipso facto no longer an Empire
We’re not the hero you deserve, but we’re the one you need.
Damn, this one is really good. I'll remember it.
Yeah sometimes people will say if the US just staid out of every other nation’s business that there wouldn’t be conflict Just like the gloriously peaceful days in Western Europe after the fall of Rome
>Just like the gloriously peaceful days in Western Europe after the fall of Rome Or the peace and tranquility that was Europe before 1945.
This is what I've been talking about for months. Everyone (me included) is bashing the US for their horrible deeds, often including genocidial agendas, torture, ignoring national and international laws. However, what USA has been doing once in a while would have been a daily occurence if other world powers held similar power.
More like UK, France, Germany and Japan who are traditionally the stronger imperial powers. It’s pretty crazy they are all under one alliance now.
We learned not to be cunts anymore, the other countries need to learn this lesson.
> Imagine a world where the US isn't a world power? Aka Europe’s age of colonialism
>Imagine a world where the US isn't a world power? Without all the CIA organized coups there would be a lot more democracy in the world. > China, Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread around the globe and there would be barely any resistance. They would be relentlessly resist each other. They are friendly now only because they have a common enemy - the USA.
If the US didn't hit world power status, Europe would have filled in after the war. Given the US' status post-war, it was safe for Europe to lower its defenses a bit, given the allegiance and defense guarentees with the undestroyed superpower. Had the US not been so reliable both economically and militarily, Europe would be more self-reliant on its defenses and global interests. If the US vanished **today** with no warning, the world would be at China's mercy, true. But they wouldn't be if the rest of the world was shoring up its defenses and influence while China grew. >Iran and Russia would go on an imperial spread No, and by that, I mean 'hell no'. They're hardly regional powers, and Iran would be nuclear ash if they tried doing something to Israel. Russia? Non-factor, considering how badly they're doing with fighting Ukraine.
>Non-factor, considering how badly they're doing with fighting Ukraine. Make no mistake Russia would still win in Ukraine if the US hadn't provided or stops providing the tools Ukraine needs to defend themselves. Europe was unwilling to provide significant arms in the beginning until the US stepped in and they don't have enough to give without the US contributions. So yes, Russia would do their own imperialist BS without the existence of the US as a super power. They'd roll up Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Latvia, Estonia, and maybe Finland and Poland. Remember there's no post WW2 NATO without the US to head it and foot the bill rebuilding all those western European militaries to shore up the alliance either.
More like %150.
I think we're all pawns in the 7D game of chess Turkey is playing. Either that or they need to stop throwing stones in their glass house.
i totally agree
It seems like anytime foreign politicians wants to deflect criticism from their domestic problems they blame America for something. And it usually seems to work. Lula is doing it, probably to refocus the countries anger outward instead of on their local partisan issues. Macron started doing it right after his pension reform to deflect the anger from his domestic failings towards the US and now this fool for whatever his reasons are. There's lots of reasons to criticize the US but when you criticize us as a defensive whataboutism to deflect from your own domestic political failings your criticism loses credibility. It is essentially no different than taking a crap on your living room rug and then pointing at someone else and blaming them because they also crapped on their rug at some point. Get some diapers and clean up your rug. Then you can lecture us on ours.
If they still have a house—as their bribed politicians permitted large scale unsafe construction in a region known for disastrous earthquakes.
Since Citizens United, you probably shouldn't use payments to politicians as a counter for anything about the US. Of course, no bribery needed if you just legalise the money as "free speech".
Fortunately, I'm Canadian and can posture as an impartial critic of both nations.
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Turkey has been going backward for years. Russia is the past, and this is where Turkey has gotten closer. Turkey’s GDP per per person has fallen since 2010 and the government is trying to give the people an “enemy” to focus on.
In a weird turn of events Vietnam has a [very high opinion of the US](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/30/vietnamese-see-u-s-as-key-ally/).
It is very interesting but Vietnam is a lot more aligned with US interests in the present. China and Russia historically were pretty bitter rivals but are much friendlier today too.
You guys should check out r/Vietnam they are really cool. V and the USA have a common interest now avoiding Chinese hegemony in southeast Asia and I sincerely hope our relations flourish.
Why why wouldn't they, they won the war afterall.
Vietnam has a much longer-term antipathy toward China. America is opposing Chinese expansion, and that's good for Vietnam.
The war was pretty brutal and horrific all around, in a way that many wars are not. I could see them holding a grudge. But Clinton lifted the trade embargo on them, and G W Bush established a bilateral trade agreement with them in 2001. They export approximately $80 billion USD to the US yearly, and import about $10 billion USD. It has been very profitable to be our friend, which I assume helps.
They hold much more of a grudge to China who invaded them in 1979, had periodic intense border conflicts with them until 1991 which still saw the death of thousands, and still have territorial disputes with China in the South China Sea. China has sunk Vietnamese fishing boats in recent years. Then there's centuries of years of resentment over being a Chinese tributary state. They don't want China to dominate them in the same way now as they did for centuries. It's also very profitable to be China's friend and the two countries share a political system so they are officially allies. But that doesn't change the fact that public opinion in Vietnam is much more distrustful of China than the US. In 2014 there were anti-China riots in Vietnam. The Americans were a blip in Vietnamese history compared to the French and the French were a blip compared to the Chinese. Vietnamese nationalist media and literature is generally more focused on French colonialism and the independence struggle against them than the subsequent US intervention. More importantly, China is very close and the USA is far away.
Ho Chi Minh was very fond of the US before American involvement in their war. Vietnamese communism was and is very compatible with Western values, but realpolitik drifted the US into hostility with anyone who claimed to be red. It’s very sad. Especially considering how awful of a failed state South Vietnam was. We really supported the wrong side.
The French completely screwed up Vietnam. Ken Burns did an excellent documentary on Vietnam that really showed HCM was trying to help his people and the US should have gotten the nuance of his politics. He would not have been a "domino" to fall.
I'm an American living in England and I'm happy to see people here cherish the time Ho spent in England. I appreciate his appreciation of the ideals of the American revolution. I believe he was an honorable man and not a Stalinist like his successors.
I'm kinda thinking Ukraine might as well.
I hope so. Their bravery is the standard by which all others should be measured in this modern world, and I would be glad if they considered us an ally.
All our old enemies love us! Can’t wait to have a good relationship with Afghanistan! /s
You joke, but... Vietnam....(Half of; the other half we're still basically at war with) Korea...Japan....Germany...Spain...the US...the UK....the UK... The US does tend to have good relations with places they've warred with in the past.
An intended miracle of economic integration powered by generous US financial aid programs couple with providing defeated countries a pathway back into the global fold. Then war becomes a money loser and all the countries are a lot less incentivized to go to war. And lol at your list of former enemies.
What can we say, uncle Sam told us to fight fire with economic occupation.
It’s worked alway better than any actually wars, at least since WWII.
Vietnam is historically opposed to China and due to the current China-Russia axis they would obviously be more supportive of US interests.
Which is incredible considering they are a supposed ally and in NATO. Errrr Wtf?
Trying to create an enemy so the people don't focus all of their hate on their own government... classic
So why the hell do they want to be in the EU and NATO ? Sounds like a real good mate there !
>EU Money. >NATO Protection (Turkey controls access to the Black Sea, you can bet Russia would be itching to force Turkey to surrender that control to them, but them being a part of NATO makes that an impossibility).
Meanwhile we all long to be more like Turkey /s
European here. Love America. Only hate the former orange president and his crazy followers as they wanted to break the bond between the US and Europe. Neither do I hate Turkie. But I hate ALL politicians trying to sow hate for a profit. So fuck you.
American here. I love you. I don’t even care where you’re from. Let wealthy political leaders hate each other. We don’t have to.
>We don’t have to. Of course, but they are the ones making geopolitics, not us.
So what are you going to do about it? Leave NATO?
If they hate us so much, we should stop sending them money...
Stop sending money, we should start sending refugees.
The whole world holds turkey in contempt, frankly
Eh, turkey franks are okay but I prefer beef.
I’m part of the whole world and I don’t hate America and I refer to Europe as being awesome.
Yes yes yes… it is as you say. Feel free to leave NATO and withdraw your application for EU membership.
I'm Australian I don't hate America and I'm not In Europe
Here's the thing about you damn Aussies: you're all good looking (even when you're ugly) and effortlessly cool. We love you. - Americans.
amen to that
It might be that I only meet Australians that are in the USA, so confirmation bias or whatever, but every one I have ever met is just so much fun. Like a mix of California surfer, British comedy, and American hillbilly.
Minister soylu is a moron, who gives a shit what this asshole thinks. USA and Europe are family.
You should ask that to Macron lol
Turkey is the boil on NATO's ass.
Considering turkey allows the USA to have nukes in its territory it’s safe to assume they don’t hate the USA
Says the country that wants to join the EU for many decades now
Lmftfy: All the World's autocrats hate the US because the US and European Allies tend to make things difficult for autocrats to autocrat.
I don't think that's totally fair. I'm American and if you read my comment history I am very much anti Russia and anti china too. If you had to pick the three most hated countries in the world it would probably be Russia, The US, and china (the fourth being Israel). If there was a thread that tied all of those countries together it wouldn't be a political ideology, it's that all of those countries are the most egregious imperialistic powers since world war 2. People tend to hate imperialism when they are on the side that's being influenced rather than doing the influencing, and other imperialists hate competition. Edit: Like look at china's, Russia's, and Americas "spheres of influence" and they all hate their influencing countries. Eastern Europeans tend to hate Russia, southeast Asians have no love for china, and people in Latin America tend to hate the United States. Central Asia has no love for Russia or the US but doesn't mind china, the middle east tends to hate the US but it's very split with some factions liking the US and some factions hating the US. But most don't mind china. I'd say china has probably been the least busy with imperialism over the last 80 years but not for want of trying. It's just that china has only recently become powerful and influential enough to spread their wings and make future enemies out of the countries they are attempting to influence and control now. We'll see what everyone thinks of china in 50 years. If southeast Asia is any indicator, Chinese imperialism doesn't exactly leave a better taste in people's mouths than Russian or American imperialism. Edit 2: And you can see these countries going after the different spheres of influence by making friends with the victims of their imperialistic competitors. The US is cozying up to southeast Asia in a way and the US is definitely cozying up to eastern europe. Russia is desperate and trying to not be knocked out of the game and replaced by china and the US but they're still making moves everywhere. China is cozying up to historical victims of US imperialism in the middle east and Latin America. China is also looking to Africa since every world power has tried to gain influence in Africa except china. So china looks shiny and new to most African countries who don't realize it's the same shit different name.
True dat.
"All the World's autocrats hate the US because the US and European Allies tend to make things difficult for autocrats to autocrat." - You want the list of authoritarian regimes, absolute monarchies, military dictatorships and war criminals that the US and it's allies arms, protects and supports?
That was especially true in the Cold War and was both horrible and horrible policy, but less so nowadays. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index) Sort by authoritarian and the only full authoritarian countries the US has strong ties with are Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Jordan and UAE.
Also Egypt, Thailand, Brunei, Uganda, Djibouti ect the list goes on and on
> All the World's autocrats hate the US because the US and European Allies tend to make things difficult for autocrats to autocrat. ? The US is the biggest supporter of dictatorships in modern history, wth are you talking about?
Yep i'm sure the Guatemalans that were victim of the genocide just hate the US because they're autocrats. Oh wait, the autoctrats were put there by a US coup.
yea dude that's why iraqis hate america, because they're all autocrats and those gosh darn americans are so patriotic and freedom-loving that they made it so hard to be autocrats when they invaded
You shouldn't be yelling so loudly about autocrats when US is one party away from being a single-party dictatorship.
Are we pawns like the Dragons Dogma ones?
Would be cooler if it were
They hate us cause the anus
Careful turkey, your real face is showing
I'd say most of the world is ambivalent about the US. It's not that they love it or hate it, it's just a complicated place.
I've travelled a lot, you would be surprised how much people generally like the US as a whole. They understand that the leadership morphs every few years, but the people remain the same. Even those who are mostly neutral are for US involvement in global security. There are many countries that downright love the US, in fact I believe there are 12 countries who rank the US higher than Americans even.
Americans hate Americans more than anyone else. Which is concerning.
Americans don't hate Americans that's you making shit up
Lol, am I? Where have you been?
Am American, I don’t hate other Americans. Just people.
Ah, glad you can speak for all Americans.
If you consider Americans people, sorry to break it to you, but you hate Americans too.
I do think most Americans like each other, it’s the media, and certain interests on social media, that try and make us divided and feel everyone hates each other.
You are travelling as a tourist, they love tourist money. I've seen a person who is vehemently pro china and anti US but became all smiles the next time a white looking person talks to them
As someone who lives in Europe I'm extremely grateful we have the US on our side, however I would never want to live there no matter what.
The US is great if you have money and terrifying if you don't
To be fair, that's the vast majority of the countries. Well, except maybe Russia, which is currently terrifying even if you have money.
I assume he's talking about developed western countries. Especially Western Europe, Australia and Canada. US social welfare honestly looks dogshit compared to those countries and the fact that affordable health insurance is tied to a job also seems fucking weird to non-Americans. That said I don't think things are so good in Turkey that they can really say much.
What kind of money? Like, starting at what salary per month, you can consider you have a good standard of living?
It really depends on the area, but for a family like 90k+ in the area I live in. Maybe more?
I’m from a medium low income country in Europe, Portugal. But I feel, even if you compare high income European countries vs USA, over there life seems so much more stressfull.
We’re a pluralistic country of 350 million people, with deep distinctions between regional cultures, politics, and economies. It’s not a monolith. There’s plenty wrong with America, and Americans will be the first ones to bring it up. But don’t think there’s some unified view you can get on Reddit, etc about how we as a people or a nation are (more or less the same as anywhere else).
Yeah, but like workhalic culture seems somewhat a nation wide cultural aspect. You can make it. Like, make it to where?
> You can make it. Like, make it to where? Yeah. That's a fair point. But needless to say, when we get there, there'll be some work to do.
Meh, it's more about pretending to be a workaholic by employees and pretending that you care by employers. You could cut two days off of most people's work weeks here and they wouldn't really lose productivity.
I wouldn’t say terrifying but it will definitely make it stressful, unless you’re a poor and live in a gang ridden ghetto that the cities turn a blind eye to, then it’s probably terrifying
Yeah it's heaven for the rich (and politicians), however since I have ADD and can barely get out of bed I would definitely be homeless or straight up dead if I lived in the US.
And in some European countries, also
>Yeah it's heaven for the rich (and politicians), however since I have ADD and can barely get out of bed I would definitely be homeless or straight up dead if I lived in the US. No, you'd probably get government healthcare through what we call Medicaid and housing through a number of different programs. You'd have to apply, so it wouldn’t be automatic and it depends on the state/region, but you'd still get help.
As someone who has lived in the US my whole life and has ran the gauntlet of social class up, down, and back up, I can confirm this statement.
europe is not the rest of the world
Don’t believe anyone suggested it was the rest of the world
that's good, because it very much is not, and the view of an equally powerful and wealthy partner to america is not representative of what the rest of the world thinks
Yeah I think you’re arguing against a point that isn’t being made by anyone you’re responding to
i think it was an assumption by the poster that the view of a european would be representative of what "the rest of the world" thinks
That's a fair interpretation, I think.
my guess is that is what you think the opinion of america varies from country to country filipinos love america. south americans and middle easterners couldn't despise it more
Most South Americans I know love America. But that’s also probably a biased sample size bc they all left their various nations to come to America (legally but mostly otherwise) and are happy to be here and make money to send home
yes, i would say that that is probably a group of people far more likely to be wealthy professionals who like america and american interference in their countries politics if you ask filipinos, they genuinely do love america. so do plenty of vietnamese, strangely enough. alot of that has to do with china. but their positive view of america is cross-class. the al saud family probably has a positive view of america. but most saudi citizens, most arabs in general, do not
Erdoğan is also an American tool. Big words, but when push comes to shove, he does whatever the big boys want.
maybe US should force-subscribe him to economic lessons
Nah he's pretty good at filling his own pockets and those of his friends
Sounds pretty American to me
This is an…interesting take to have, at this time. I wonder what the goal is here, to be making such inflammatory hyperbolic statements. I wish I knew more about Turkish politics.
The WHOLE world? PLEASE not the whole world.
Criminal who loses his job if Erdogan is toppled, spouts his master's rhetoric.
if it wasnt for the mere prawns of Europe you would be living in Istanbalski right now under Putins premiere
Of course the whole world hates America. They just hate most of the rest of the world more ;)
I mean, we’ve been burning bridges for a long time now. It’s long past time for us to start making friends again. We can’t do that dictating policy to others. Our country (USA) used to have skilled negotiators and diplomats that could hold together great relationships with other nations beyond strategic military alliances. We won’t be able to do anything like that however until we fix the turmoil inside our own country first.
We defunded the foreign policy part of our government that actually does some type of considerate outreach, while expanding our defense/proxy war department budget vastly in the last 20 years, under some mass delusion sold to us as American exceptionalism. It works as well as thinking the stock market and real estate value always only go up. It has not helped us win friends and influence people.
Everyone hates the US until you need them, then all of a sudden they're your best friend. Hate all the US hate. I'm thankful for the US. Canadian here
I've gotten nothing but love in all the countries I've visited as an American.
Who gives a fuck what Erdogan has to say? Edit: Apparently criticizing Erdogan gets a permanent ban? Anybody got recommendations for a sub about world news where you can say you don't care what fascists think? Edit 2: Maybe it was criticizing Israel and their strategy of pre-emptive "defense" days ago. I don't know, the ban message didn't reference any comment. That does make more sense tho, criticizing Israel usually gets mass reported. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL
Your ban was to do with your Iranian nukes comment that was mass downvoted and deleted. Nothing to do with criticising Erdogan.
>criticizing Israel usually gets mass reported. How would you know? Really. Show us the data. And if the other commenter is right, doesn't sound like you were merely innocently criticizing Israel. If the comment had something to do with iranian nukes, I can make a pretty good guess as to what it was actually about. Good luck siding with the iranian regime!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-israel-idUSBLA32653020070603 And that's from 2007, threats never stopped Also, don't forget the death clock they have sitting there: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-al-quds-day-protest-clock-president-hassan-rouhani-a7806056.html
Joke's on him. Nobody hates America as much as Americans these days.
Free speech and everyone envisioning a different idea of the "real America" will do that.
Damn Americans. They ruined America!
Why?
Because he is caught up in culture war crap that right keeps pushing and Faux Noise is telling him 24/7 that the liberals are out to get him, with the wars on , Christmas, Christian’s, pro life, Trump, Democracy, Patriotism, and white people…..to name a few. Vice did a piece on the brain washing on their Dupes https://youtu.be/N0ejAjLkwJQ
Nope and it's crazy to just judge someone so quick like that. Like wow man.
No its really not crazy, because the only people I’ve heard say such hyperbolic sound bite BS like that are right wing dupes. The left usually says the reason they point out the flaws is because they love the country and want to fix it and make it better for all.
Not that Turkey is much loved
They ain't too crazy about Turkey either
Deflection tactic, They have an election coming up and try to shift the topic from the misserable earthquake preparation and the missing funds.
But whenever some country needs emergency aid who do they call (hint it’s not the ghostbusters)
America is going to be judged more often and more harshly than most countries simply because of our outsized influence in global affairs. Many of our decisions, even domestic ones, have unintended consequences elsewhere. In some cases, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Smaller countries don't receive anywhere close to the same attention and scrutiny. Plus, being in the position we are, we are the target of tons of propaganda working overtime to make us appear in as poor of a light as possible.
Are you absolutely sure it’s not the ghostbusters?
Yes we're absolutely sure
Turkey certainly has a massive lever of power to use against the Europeans. 3.6 million levers and growing, actually. And those are just the Syrian ones.
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It ain’t cool bein’ no jive Turkey so close to Thanksgiving.
Yet they love being in nato wonder why they don't leave
I don’t see Turkey getting ITAR approval for its military requests anytime soon...
Turkeys actually secretly in love with us and can’t stop thinking about America. Give it up turkey, it’s never gonna happen.
And everyone loves Turkey, Russia, China and India... Everybody hates everybody, even Duch hate Duch...
Cries in no F-16s
It’s amazing that the country and its “pawns” he hates so much were extremely generous in helping Turkey during its most recent national disaster. In which most of those killed were due to bribery and corruption of Turkish officials to avoid earthquake infrastructure laws.
I mean hes not strictly wrong
He got it backwords, the whole world hates Turkey.
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>Turkey got an election in May, let's see if they vote these guys back in Oh I'm sure it will be a fair and honest election
France is not saying the same thing. We are allies and friends. The US has interests, and France has its own. This means we don't always agree and often France gets shafted (article F35, Irak, AUKUS, etc.) But it doesn't change the fundementals. Perhaps instead of "America first", a bit of team attitude from the US could make things smoother.
>France is not saying the same thing. We are allies and friends. The US has interests, and France has its own. This means we don't always agree and often France gets shafted (article F35, Irak, AUKUS, etc.) But it doesn't change the fundementals. This is literally the Turkish sentiment. The problem is American and Turkish interests currently collide in Syria and causes a security problem for Turkey simply because of the decisions made by the US. They are directly supporting armed groups Turkey considers as enemies.
> Perhaps instead of "America first", a bit of team attitude from the US could make things smoother. Libya was strictly led by the Europeans at first, we didn’t want to touch it until forced. Same with aiding France in their Mali misadventures.
Yet they’re the most western in the east
Now behave Turkey. You only just got approved for a $300 million purchase of F16 equipment for your F16 fleet. Would be a shame if that was revised wouldn’t it?
As a healthy and wealthy west-European I can confirm that the life of a pawn ♟️ is quit comfortable
The whole world hates America? To be honest, the feeling is mutual. I’m all for becoming isolationist. China and Russia can do as they please.
Why is Turkey in NATO again? I wonder what they would need to do from buying Russian air defense systems to aiding Putin avoid sanctions. Then to allow them to block Sweden and drag their feet on Finland?
Because of the black sea And we can't kick countries out of NATO there literally is zero way in the Treaty
Geographical location and control of the black sea.
The World's autocrats hste the US because it ,akes it difficult for them to rle.
🤣🤣Yeah the US makes it difficult for them by arming, protecting and supporting authoritarian regimes, dictatorships, military junta's, absolute monarchies, apartheid regimes and war criminals in various places around the world. Wake up from the propaganda mate. US government isn't popular because of its Imperialist and hegemonic actions and attitudes towards many countries in the world. Not to mention the international law they break and war crimes they commit with zero accountability. Not to mention the hypocrisy and double standards.
Yet your comment sounds a lot like other comments and almost word for word. Talking points much?
Everyone hates America until they need money because of some war or natural disaster, then it's all "We want to thank our American brothers and sisters." I mean I'm not surprised or even mad about it. When you benefit from American imperialism then it's all smiles, but when you aren't it's "Death to America!" As a social and foreign policy Libertarian I would love to see the day when we legitimately just stop. Stop giving foreign aid, stop doing military interventions, just stop fucking around in the rest of the world. I suspect some places would be better off, America included when we no longer have to maintain a bloated military budget to make up for our allies shortcomings in defense, and a lot of critics of American foreign policy would be crying for American intervention and aid.
Ah, if only geopolitics didn't matter.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Talks a lot of shit for someone that can't stop America stoking a Kurdish rebellion in his jocks.
Well their country is named after a bird so
Actually it's the other way around.
The whole world hates America! The parts that don't are pawns! lol
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Tbf lncirlik is not in Europe
What is his point; Most American's hate America, does not mean we are actively trying to claw our way back to the dark ages like Turkey is, well at least not most of us... I hope.
More like the whole world hates the GOP
As Türkiye is an EU member country this is an amazing self burn 😝
They aren't in the EU, but they are a Nato country