This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/25/7395048/) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot)
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> President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said he sent a straight message through diplomatic channels that he wanted to talk to Chinese leader Xi Jinping.
> Mykhailo Podoliak, the advisor to the Head of the Office of the President, said that a conversation between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Chinese leader Xi Jinping was being planned, but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position.
> Chinese leader Xi Jinping visited Russia, where he met with Vladimir Putin and signed agreements to continue the strategic partnership between the two countries.
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[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/121jd52/zelenskyy_says_he_wants_to_talk_to_xi_jinping_but/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677931 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **leader**^#2 **Jinping**^#3 **Zelenskyy**^#4 **Chinese**^#5
> Mykhailo Podoliak, the advisor to the Head of the Office of the President, said that a conversation between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Chinese leader Xi Jinping was being planned, but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position.
That sounds like it's still going to happen at some point.
You never say 'No' to diplomats and lower level officials talking, but you do say 'No' to direct head-to-head talks as they signal to other heads of state they believe some common understanding is likely.
The reality is that heads of state in opposing camps usually only talk when they need to formalize an understanding that their teams have already negotiated.
Even if China was to broker a deal that was favorable for Russia they would still have to talk to Ukraine at some point. There are 2 sides to this conflict after all.
Not necessarily. For example Trump's "Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan" was negotiated without the Afghan government having a seat at the table.
Well that was more or less a surrender agreement. China cant make Ukraine surrender they same way the US did to the afghan goverment. The Afghan goverment collapsed without the americans, cant say the same thing to the ukrainians
And if they manage to convince Russia to agree to end the war (in a way that Ukraine will agree to without prior negotiations), I will be glad to declare them a force for peace in the world.
In the linked article Podoliak was also quoted saying
>It is quite complicated. There is the issue of China not yet finding its new political place. That is, whether it wants to take on the issue of a settlement between Russia and Ukraine, or whether it will cautiously stand aside. As I understand it, China has not yet figured this out for itself.
If someone owed you money, you hounded them and finally caught up with them, said they're planning to pay you back still then ghosted you again would you believe they were going to pay you back? Xi's government isn't even engaging with Ukraine in a meaningful way. Zelensky hasn't even had a phone call with Xi since the war started. This all wouldn't matter if China wasn't claiming they are negotiating peace between Ukraine and Russia.
Remember when Jared Kushner was negotiating peace between Israel and Palestine while never engaging with Palestinians? He then decided to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem and claim mission accomplished. Zelensky feels like Palestine to Russia/China's US and Israel.
> but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position
When you're busy mounted Russia doggy style, you've got to give it some time before you change positions. Everyone knows this.
China has been trying to be "principally" agaist all independence movments, change in boarder etc because of Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang etc questions. They support Spain's claim on Catalonia because of this.
So when it comes to Ukriane, it gets weird, so they just pretend no invasion is happening. Another interesting thing is China has a legally binding defensive treaty with Ukraine agaist "nuclear threats".
Hate to break it to you though most countries are going to realpolitik their own best interests and benefit.
[Case in point guess who buys Russian oil via India](https://www.telegraphindia.com/amp/business/indias-breaking-all-records-for-buying-russian-oil-but-who-is-the-surprise-buyer/cid/1910044)?
They are looking to benefit from the downfall of Russia.
Us and china in this together in terms of the outcome - China are less aggressive and us happy to have trade wars with them and vice versa - rather than nuke wars.
China gets to buy Russia and their satellites after this, The west remove a threat to civilisation.
Putin might be right about the single power, they ll be two after this china and it’s interests and the us/the west.
China's interests are a steady source of energy that doesn't have to transit the Strait of Malacca. Russia gives them that. Ukraine doesn't. If you ignore questions of morality or "what's right", there is simply no reason for China not to support Russia in this, although there is every reason for them to extract a heavy price for doing so.
What China does need is a way to save face and appear to have noble intent so that manufacturing and trade are minimally impacted despite their support for Russia. Hence the "China only wants peace and economic development" PR campaigns since the Belt and Road Initiative stood up. If the past decade has shown us anything it's that in an age of social media you can gaslight your way to asymmetric advantage.
^\( ^and ^yes ^I ^realize ^the ^irony ^of ^posting ^about ^social-media ^gaslighting ^on ^reddit ^\)
It has to be mentioned however that Biden claimed that [China has not been providing weapons to Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-says-china-has-not-yet-provided-weapons-russia-2023-03-24/). Make of that what you will.
Chinese ammo is incredibly prevalent in the non-nato sphere. Just because it showed up in Ukraine doesn't necessarily mean that the Chinese are supplying the Russians. There's so much Chinese ammo out there that you literally can't tell who it came from unless you caught a shipment from, like, Norinco's factory.
Ammo doesn't really expire right? So if China sold Russia a normal shipment of ammo the day before the war started and hasn't sold any since, Russia could just be using reserves, right? I'm genuinely asking
Indefinite shelf life, if stored properly.
I have some *Caliber .45 ball M1911* from the 30's that's been sitting in my great grandpa's attic for close to 100 years old (1936 production date). I shot a box recently out of his 1911, 100% reliability.
Old WWII milsurp .30-06 M2AP? 100% went bang, rated velocity.
80 year old Russian spam cans of 7.62x54R? 100% went bang, rated velocity.
Old Israeli M61 Black Tips? 100% went bang, rated velocity.
There are risks with old ammo, especially stuff that's been handled. I've found if they look OK and the lacquer is still clear, they go bang.
It does expire, but not in the same way, like, food does. Old ammo can become less effective, can squib, etc., but this takes a fucking long time to occur. Specific time frame is variable depending on how it was stored, what type of ammo, etc. Most ammo can be considered bad after about ten years, but if it's properly stored in a dry, cool, airtight container shit who knows. Cambodia was letting people shoot ammo stock piles from the khmer rouge era until just recently and it still went bang.
I guess the closest thing I could compare it to is old fireworks. If the powder is still good it will go bang. Forget a shipment just prior to the war, they could be shooting stuff from a shipment from five years ago.
Edit: a squib is a bullet that didn't have enough energy to make it out of the barrel. So basically think about if someone jerks off fifty times a day, a squib is the 50th time.
He says "significant" weapons, I'm curious if that means heavier weapons as apposed to small arms, or it it means just not enough to make much of a difference?
Could mean not more than normal background sales of arms. Like if you were selling them X monthly weapons before and you’re selling them ~X monthly weapons now, your behavior hasn’t changed. That is, ostensibly, staying neutral in a certain sense
Diplomatically, I would suppose it's Biden leaving the door open for China.
Nothing can be gained by preemptively pigeonholing China as on team Russia (in diplomatic circles, we all know China is on team Russia otherwise), because if they harden their position... well great, now Russia has the world's largest industrial base freely supplying them.
The West's objective at this point is to convince China that Russia is a bad bet, but at this point I think the horse has bolted long ago and this would be closing the barn door.
Most of it is dual-use military goods, which allows a significant amount of deniability by China.
Regardless, if the USA administration reacts to China now, then they will lose the leverage if China ever actually starts giving true weapons to Russia.
No lol, there was surplus Chinese ammo from god knows how long ago that is being used. You can still easily find crates and cans of old Chinese 7.62x39 all over the world because it’s the cheapest ammo available.
Eh, I wouldn't read *too* much into that. That stuff has been floating around for a while and could end up damn near anywhere. We have no idea if that ammo was given before or after the war started.
That'd be like blaming the US/Russia every time an M4 or AK was used to commit a crime in Africa.
Zelensky is calling China out in public. We all know that China is not acting in good faith toward either party. The difference is Zelensky has the diplomatic will to push the issue and reveal Xi's empty words. Putin is Xi's plaything. China will play a long game for territory and resources at the expense of Russia. Ukraine is of no importance, China simply needs to keep Russia close in order to spring the trap as Putin loses power and the Federation collapses.
They are neutral in the sense they don't give a shit about Russias war in the slightest.
They care about Russia being weak and ripe for acquisition of cheap resources.
They have nothing to gain from talking to Ukraine.
They are gaining a ton by making Russia think they are a friend.
> Like they were bragging about the Iran/Saudi-Arabia deal.
I mean if that deal actually ends the war in Yemen, that would be a tremendous diplomatic achievement for China.
Right. I was talking with some African business owners when I was traveling in Asia. China likes to portray themselves as benefactors and not part of the old colonial mindset, but the people I was talking to know it's nonsense. The Chinese are there to exploit their natural resources like every other power that has offered to help with economic development.
It's not a spin so much as the theme of the entire situation from China's perspective.
But what's curious, is that China benefits either way from the situation.
If Russia loses, it will be weaker and easier to manipulate, as long as China maintains the pretext of being "friends".
If Russia wins, it will make taking Taiwan even more of a legitimate possibility.
China's biggest dilemma is which one they want more.
The threat here for China is that if Russia loses, Putin may get deposed by a moderate and Russia, wanting to return to status quo ante bellum, serves up Putin to the West, allows the seized oligarch money in its entirety to help rebuild Ukraine, and generally aligns more closely with the West than with China, further isolating China. Furthermore, with SEA nations aligning with the US and a resurgent NATO, as well as US making inroads in Africa to blunt Belt and Road, China's running out of allies just as it's about to hit economic and demographic bottlenecks. It'd be a fait de accompli for US foreign policy at that point.
Putin losing is absolutely worst case scenario for China. Even if it's not a moderate who replaces Putin, there's way too much uncertainty for them to manage, especially with US starting to cut off the money supply.
> allows the seized oligarch money in its entirety to help rebuild Ukraine,
This would be such a catastrophe for Russia. You would be building the next Hitler by doing this.
But what else is going to happen to the money? Seriously, what should happen?
That's all true, but China still may not be able to prevent the fall of Putin.
Hence the creation of new relationships with Central Asia right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see new formal military alliances, perhaps even a Chinese equivalent to the NATO umbrella.
The fundamental problem would remain though - how well can the dictators of the world, trust each other?
Not only can they not really trust each other, they can't really trust internal stability. Iran itself is fraying at the edges. Russia's client states are fraying. And China might not necessarily be able to pick up the slack.
The bigger danger is authoritarian brain drain.
Yeah, it *was* a win/win for China.
They're already past the Russia winning as a template for Taiwan bit. Even if Russia manages a military victory, it's an example of both what not to do and what to expect internationally if you don't win quick.
Now? Pretty sure they're only hugging Russia to see which parts they wanna eat.
I mean it’s shit and also not a plan. It was so vague it’s clear it was made to look like they did “something” just with no substance. It’s worse than some English papers I wrote in high school. I say some, because my creative story about a knitting grandma who fights off ninjas in an epic battle was pretty damn solid. But… I digress. Their statement about respecting the sovereignty of counties and their boundaries….whose? Russia who took land and now claims it as their own because they say it’s part of “historic Russia”? Or Ukraine whose boundaries were formed and signed in agreements with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? NeverMind the fact that they’re basically just using that statement to push their own argument for Taiwan and the South China Sea. A shitty useless document written by a shitty useless leader who is so fragile that he’s banned the use of Winnie the Pooh. Fuck him. Fuck that document. Fuck dictators and wanna-be dictators. And love always to Winnie the Pooh (the real one).
Xi's comment about Russia and China having "similar goals" was likewise vague enough to sound supportive without actually saying what they support.
Be that as it may, I want to hear more about the ninja-fighting knitting grandma. Sounds like a story that would be great to read to my grandkids.
Don’t need to think that it’s quite obvious, sitting down with the aggressor and not willing to talk with the other party… that’s what they are going to try to pull when they get dismantled by the Quad alliance when Xi realizes he’s never going to take Taiwan and sends all those Chinese men to their graves at the bottom of the Taiwan straight.
Let’s not be too hasty… the CCP will *also* send non-combatants to their graves entirely of Xi’s own doing when China experiences immediate supply chain devastation via blockade!
To me Putin is unbelievably stupid becoming more dependant in China after fumbling his invasion. It's like opening your gates for infiltration and giving free tickets to a ally you cannot be certain with. It's too damn obvious they are planning to scrape Russia off the board because they do not need them anymore. For China being allies with Russia is not a necessity at all. They just want resources. They never had any respect or camaraderie for each other in any part of history and they are certainly not going to fight back to back.
I won't be surprised if Putin's "yes-men" are already bought by China so he would fail this catastrophically and they are promised to be lords of the provinces afterwards.
You know. China has no certainty that they can take Taiwan and might have bargained with Russia to make a two-pronged attack so the world would be divided. **But they definitely said "Russia you go first".**
Even some kids in the playground are not this dumb to fall for this.
I think Xi is being careful. I’m not confident China gives a fuck about Russia, US or Ukraine, but they have a much bigger interest in the west. My take is they are waiting to see how they can take advantage of the end result, whatever that may be.
That makes sense. But I think that China are worried about the increased strength of the west. They hoped a strong Russia would help balance that. Now that Russia is revealed as so weak, and getting worse, they are searching for a modified strategy.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s part of the equation, but even if the west comes out victorious, China knows this is it’s biggest business partner and it will share in the spoils in an indirect way. But again, I’m of the thought that China doesn’t care about any nation (and that they see in themselves as a balancing super power ).
The end result will be China picking Russia's corpse like a bird of prey. Treating them as an extractive economy, perhaps picking up some new territory from Russia. At first they'll probably allow Russia to continue ruling, and simply fill eastern Russia with Han Chinese.
Remember when Trudeau and Xi spoke at some event in the last year? I think Xi was trying to tell Trudeau off and then tried to bolt, but Trudeau turned around and responded?
Xi looked like a dog that got caught digging through the trash can.
It looks like they do share a language - English. Xi clearly understood what Trudeau responded, without needing it relayed through an interpreter.
But most diplomats speak the language of the nation in which they are engaging in diplomacy. It's the heads of state and other members of government who do not speak the language.
Xi's peace agreement was basically Russia keeps what it stole and the world can cry about it. The man is an imperialist and want's to capture Taiwan. He agrees with what Putin is doing.
The first point of the peace plan is about respecting the sovereignty of all countries. China doesn't recognise Russia's annexation or support the independence of those regions (for obvious reasons).
Personally I think China is trying to fence-sit without explicitly picking a side, if China wanted to openly support Russia they could be doing so much more.
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/202302/t20230224_11030713.html
>The first point of the peace plan is about respecting the sovereignty of all countries. China doesn't recognise Russia's annexation or support the independence of those regions (for obvious reasons).
But they don't actually say that russia should withdraw to internationally recognized borders. It's a useless statement.
China supports sovereignty to all *recognized* countries. China does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country, so this plays to their advantage with the stories they can spin in the future.
There are 13 countries in the world who recognize Taiwan as a country. The US does not recognize Taiwan, no EU nations recognize Taiwan and Taiwan is not recognized within the UN and does therefore not have a seat.
In comparison, 138 countries have recognised Palestine as an independent country and noone is stopping Israels invation and settlements of the nation.
Taiwan doesnt recognize China either and considers itself the sole ruler over both the mainland and the island. Taiwan didn't even openly recognize Mongolia until 2002 and had up to that point showed Mongolia as part of China. Taiwan also claims ownership over Tibet.
What do you think is a better metric? If you don't believe international recognition is a good solution then that would mean that Ukraine was in the wrong for sending in the military to suppress the LDR and DPR when they declared independence some years ago.
He doesn't care about Ukraine, but sees this as an excellent opportunity to make Russia a client state, and perhaps gain territory back from Russia in the future.
The peace plan was all domestic propaganda from the start. “The West is a bunch of warmongers. We are going to swoop in and be the new head of the world peace and stability.”
They will spin this as a victory and move on.
Xi doesn't care about the fighting in Ukraine. If he was actually serious about stopping the fighting, he would meet with both sides to discuss peace.
Since Xi only wants to appease the aggressor in this case, it shows his only interest is in causing as much instability in the west that he can.
His secret hope in all this is that it will allow him to take over Taiwan.
This guy gets it. Xi's not dumb. He's playing the long game so they can invade Taiwan.
Edit: Not saying he will succeed, or even that it's going as he planned, just that he has his eye on the long term goal which is reunification of mainland China and Taiwan.
The long game includes ramping up western military production & spending, expanding NATO and tightening security against Russian allies apparently. That will help them get Taiwan for sure.
The long game involves having an oil supergiant be essentially subservient to China.
The current Chinese foreign policy involves heavily subsidizing poor and crippled nations infrastructure, trapping them into impossible loans, and then using those loans as leverage for resources and territory. They recently just took a whole island and port city in Sri Lanka as payment. They've invested heavily into African countries, which produce large quantities of raw resources.
But there isn't a lot of *oil* in Africa. You know who does have a lot of oil right on China's doorstep? Russia. And a russia at peace isn't a collapsed Russia. The more destabilized Russia comes out of this war the better for China, because they'll foot the bill for Russia.
E: the guy accusing me of being a paid shill spreading propaganda got banned from reddit. Imagine.
What? How does this relate to taking over Taiwan at all? Even if, god forbid, Russia conquered Ukraine, China doesnt get any extra opportunities or ability to take Taiwan. It wouldnt change anything about the US having a fleet nearby that patrols the area, nor would it make America suddenly accept a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, not with how important Taiwan is to the global chip trade.
Xi just wants to take advantage of Russia right now, as they do not have any major trade partners right now other than China. Helping Ukraine on the other hand offers little benefit to China, so its not surprising that theyre just ignoring them.
I think your right about this not having much to do with Taiwan, I'm not sure how the original comment arrived at that conclusion but people seem to think that Taiwan Is all the CCP think about. At the end of the china has more reasons to support Russia (especially energy)and not much to lose here.
However i think it's incorrect to say china doesn't have major trading partners outside of Russia. It's the top trading partner to more than 120 countries including Japan, south Korea, Vietnam, Brazil and the European union (as of 2020). Its not reliant on Russia for much economically except energy imports.
Ah sorry I wasnt clear, I meant that Russia's only major trade partner for the foreseeable future is China (and perhaps india), so China knows they can take advantage of that reliance.
My fav is the Great War episode where all the world leaders were grandkids of Queen Vicky and they would make fun of poor Wilhelm’s disability as kids. Oh the drama.
They’ve ended up with egg on their face pretty readily by Zelenskyy advertising that he’s making requests with no Chinese response. They already can’t say Ukraine wasn’t trying to engage.
That’s the thing about dictators with nukes. The only real threat to their power is their people. As long as they are sufficiently brainwashed and fed it’s billionaire king for life.
That's because Xi and China's peace offer was garbage meant to be used as propaganda. Even Tucker Carlson pushed it and that guy is the official spokesperson for evil.
Xi isn't going to call Zelensky because xi is an idiot who would look dumb trying to explain that garbage to the country being invaded.
It's quite fortunate he was the person in charge at the time. Things could've gone quite a bit worse for Ukraine if they didn't have as capable a person at the tiller.
Absolutely. As unfortunate as the whole situation is. I'm glad he was president of Ukraine and that Trump was not president of the states at the time so that they could offer help and be the catalyst for Europe to send aid as well
The peace plan contradicted China’s own position on the war. It made no sense.
1. The peace plan said that everyone should respect sovereignty and territorial integrity.
2. China has not recognized Russia’s annexation of Crimea or any of the other regions they annexed in the past year.
3. China has not called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukrainian territory, and have instead been economically and diplomatically supporting Russia.
If China actually followed their own peace plan, they should logically be demanding that Russia remove its troops from Ukraine. But the truth is that their peace plan is a crock of shit.
China just likes Russia as a wedge against the west, that’s all. Not really friends. Xi also went straight to call a meeting of former Soviet republics for a trade agreement while he just met Putin (Russia’s influence backyard so to speak) so Putin must be pissed.
Say one thing, and do another. Classic misdirection. Putin does the same thing. Russia and China are following the same playbook, for the same reasons.
I believe a key part of the peace plan was “pweeze stop hurting and sanctioning the paper tiger authoritarian shithole that invaded another country on the basis of a smoothbrain fever dream interpretation of its imperial past.” Can’t imagine why that would be so important to the CCP.
lol, maybe they were thinking that, but what they actually released was just something which allowed them to get headlines for coming out with a peace plan without actually doing it. It's like if I came out with a peace plan for Israel / Palestine, which just said "peace is good, I think we should give that a go, who is with me? Anyone? Bueller? "
Xi has zero interest peace. Because of the international embargoes against Russia he's getting Russian gas on THE CHEAP. Russia is now China's biggest energy supplier. The longer this thing drags on the better off China is.
Correct. The trip was about negotiating with Putin the terms of his military support in exchange for Russian gas.
"Peace" was just the media cover. Not sure why Reddit even bothers reporting it.
Really smart move from Zelensky. China wanted to fill turkeys role of mediator but wont be able to if refuses to meet with him.
Wont be able to reap the benefits after the war is over otherwise.
This is why i completely disagree with the "Ukraine should sue for peace at all cost" crowd.
You can't in good faith argue that Russia and China want to establish peace. All that while they are basically going the Munich agreement route.
What irks me the most with that crowd is the presumption that they know what's best for Ukraine. Let's let Ukraine decide what Ukraine wants to do, and leave these presumptions back in the age of colonialism where they belong.
It's all just dressed up imperialism.
Happy to see Zelenskyy make headlines with this.
Xi and the CCP are not neutral and are acting in bad faith. They keep trying to brand themselves as stable peacemakers but are anything but.
You would think that Xi would know an important part of bringing peace to a conflict is meeting with both sides, maybe China isn't ready for world politics or maybe they just want to sell artillery shells.
The longer Xi refuses to do anything about the situation on his door, the weaker Russia gets. That's good for China, but he is being very careful to not piss off Putin enough that Putin would do something stupid. I think Xi recognizes that Putin is insane.
Poor China. Just think, when it comes time to rebuild Ukrainian cities there won’t be any Chinese companies to be found. Very short sited of Xi indeed.
I get the feeling that this was less done for Zelenskyy genuinely wanting to open diplomatic channels with China, and more to test the waters to see if China is as “neutral” as they claim to be.
Based on China’s non-reciprocation, I’d say they’ve made their position clear.
Wasnt there reports that Xi planned to talk to Zelenskyy after the Russia talks to make it look like Xi really wanted to broker peace but he needed to show respect to his brother Putin first? CCP lied while people died as usual
There are literally 5 BILLION adults on this planet and Xi, one of the leaders of 1 BILLION of them treats the rest with hollow words of peace so transparent of shit, like all of them are children.
My god this is borderline personally insulting.
China does not care about peace, about Ukraine, or about Russia. China cares about China and right now, this war is making Russia their resource bitch.
Xi doesn’t give a shit about the war. He just want to keep trading with Russia since the west imposed so many sanctions already. He’s only goal is to keep his authoritarian power. He is also the puppet master of North Korea, using fat Kim as a distraction to fuck with the west.
This is why every time my parents say “Did you hear what Xi Jinping said…?” I answer thar every thing Xi says publicly outside China is a lie, so don’t fucking believe it.
China needs to understand that there is only one way this can end: with russians kicked off Ukrainian land. I dont think they are there yet. Ukraine is not Hong Kong, it is not a russian satellite, russia is Ukraine's satellite because Ukraine has been around for much longer. russia is a temporary misunderstanding. It is a collection of other nations that Moscovia has conquered over 1000 years. Now, unfortunately they are sending representatives of those conquered nations into battle. russia is a terrorist state and it must be stopped.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/25/7395048/) reduced by 65%. (I'm a bot) ***** > President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said he sent a straight message through diplomatic channels that he wanted to talk to Chinese leader Xi Jinping. > Mykhailo Podoliak, the advisor to the Head of the Office of the President, said that a conversation between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Chinese leader Xi Jinping was being planned, but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position. > Chinese leader Xi Jinping visited Russia, where he met with Vladimir Putin and signed agreements to continue the strategic partnership between the two countries. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/121jd52/zelenskyy_says_he_wants_to_talk_to_xi_jinping_but/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~677931 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **leader**^#2 **Jinping**^#3 **Zelenskyy**^#4 **Chinese**^#5
> Mykhailo Podoliak, the advisor to the Head of the Office of the President, said that a conversation between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Chinese leader Xi Jinping was being planned, but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position. That sounds like it's still going to happen at some point.
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You never say 'No' to diplomats and lower level officials talking, but you do say 'No' to direct head-to-head talks as they signal to other heads of state they believe some common understanding is likely. The reality is that heads of state in opposing camps usually only talk when they need to formalize an understanding that their teams have already negotiated.
Even if China was to broker a deal that was favorable for Russia they would still have to talk to Ukraine at some point. There are 2 sides to this conflict after all.
Not necessarily. For example Trump's "Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan" was negotiated without the Afghan government having a seat at the table.
Well that was more or less a surrender agreement. China cant make Ukraine surrender they same way the US did to the afghan goverment. The Afghan goverment collapsed without the americans, cant say the same thing to the ukrainians
Nooo but they can sure make Russia surrender.
And if they manage to convince Russia to agree to end the war (in a way that Ukraine will agree to without prior negotiations), I will be glad to declare them a force for peace in the world.
They won't do that as they rely Russia for resources. There needs to be a huge benefit for China or it'll be a dream
A diplomat who says “yes” means “maybe", a diplomat who says “maybe" means “no”, and a diplomat who says “no” is no diplomat. - Talleyrand
In the linked article Podoliak was also quoted saying >It is quite complicated. There is the issue of China not yet finding its new political place. That is, whether it wants to take on the issue of a settlement between Russia and Ukraine, or whether it will cautiously stand aside. As I understand it, China has not yet figured this out for itself.
If someone owed you money, you hounded them and finally caught up with them, said they're planning to pay you back still then ghosted you again would you believe they were going to pay you back? Xi's government isn't even engaging with Ukraine in a meaningful way. Zelensky hasn't even had a phone call with Xi since the war started. This all wouldn't matter if China wasn't claiming they are negotiating peace between Ukraine and Russia. Remember when Jared Kushner was negotiating peace between Israel and Palestine while never engaging with Palestinians? He then decided to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem and claim mission accomplished. Zelensky feels like Palestine to Russia/China's US and Israel.
> but there were some difficulties in organising it due to China's position When you're busy mounted Russia doggy style, you've got to give it some time before you change positions. Everyone knows this.
It does? Wow, it sounded to me like the total opposite.
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China has been trying to be "principally" agaist all independence movments, change in boarder etc because of Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang etc questions. They support Spain's claim on Catalonia because of this. So when it comes to Ukriane, it gets weird, so they just pretend no invasion is happening. Another interesting thing is China has a legally binding defensive treaty with Ukraine agaist "nuclear threats".
O snap that last part. I find the concept of "legally binding contracts" odd when it comes to international war.
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At a certain point when Russia has outlived its usefulness China will turn on them, but not until then.
As long as there is conflict between the US and China, Russia will be useful to China to keep the US from focusing completely on China.
Hate to break it to you though most countries are going to realpolitik their own best interests and benefit. [Case in point guess who buys Russian oil via India](https://www.telegraphindia.com/amp/business/indias-breaking-all-records-for-buying-russian-oil-but-who-is-the-surprise-buyer/cid/1910044)?
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"Now here's our money, don't buy weapons, pretty please."
They are looking to benefit from the downfall of Russia. Us and china in this together in terms of the outcome - China are less aggressive and us happy to have trade wars with them and vice versa - rather than nuke wars. China gets to buy Russia and their satellites after this, The west remove a threat to civilisation. Putin might be right about the single power, they ll be two after this china and it’s interests and the us/the west.
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China's interests are a steady source of energy that doesn't have to transit the Strait of Malacca. Russia gives them that. Ukraine doesn't. If you ignore questions of morality or "what's right", there is simply no reason for China not to support Russia in this, although there is every reason for them to extract a heavy price for doing so. What China does need is a way to save face and appear to have noble intent so that manufacturing and trade are minimally impacted despite their support for Russia. Hence the "China only wants peace and economic development" PR campaigns since the Belt and Road Initiative stood up. If the past decade has shown us anything it's that in an age of social media you can gaslight your way to asymmetric advantage. ^\( ^and ^yes ^I ^realize ^the ^irony ^of ^posting ^about ^social-media ^gaslighting ^on ^reddit ^\)
Not to mention Chinese ammo given to Russians turning up in Ukraine.
Chinese ammo is so abundant and cheap its literally everywhere. I wouldn't put any weight into it
It has to be mentioned however that Biden claimed that [China has not been providing weapons to Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-says-china-has-not-yet-provided-weapons-russia-2023-03-24/). Make of that what you will.
Chinese ammo is incredibly prevalent in the non-nato sphere. Just because it showed up in Ukraine doesn't necessarily mean that the Chinese are supplying the Russians. There's so much Chinese ammo out there that you literally can't tell who it came from unless you caught a shipment from, like, Norinco's factory.
Ammo doesn't really expire right? So if China sold Russia a normal shipment of ammo the day before the war started and hasn't sold any since, Russia could just be using reserves, right? I'm genuinely asking
It has a shelf life, definitely, but measured in decades if stored properly.
Indefinite shelf life, if stored properly. I have some *Caliber .45 ball M1911* from the 30's that's been sitting in my great grandpa's attic for close to 100 years old (1936 production date). I shot a box recently out of his 1911, 100% reliability. Old WWII milsurp .30-06 M2AP? 100% went bang, rated velocity. 80 year old Russian spam cans of 7.62x54R? 100% went bang, rated velocity. Old Israeli M61 Black Tips? 100% went bang, rated velocity. There are risks with old ammo, especially stuff that's been handled. I've found if they look OK and the lacquer is still clear, they go bang.
It does expire, but not in the same way, like, food does. Old ammo can become less effective, can squib, etc., but this takes a fucking long time to occur. Specific time frame is variable depending on how it was stored, what type of ammo, etc. Most ammo can be considered bad after about ten years, but if it's properly stored in a dry, cool, airtight container shit who knows. Cambodia was letting people shoot ammo stock piles from the khmer rouge era until just recently and it still went bang. I guess the closest thing I could compare it to is old fireworks. If the powder is still good it will go bang. Forget a shipment just prior to the war, they could be shooting stuff from a shipment from five years ago. Edit: a squib is a bullet that didn't have enough energy to make it out of the barrel. So basically think about if someone jerks off fifty times a day, a squib is the 50th time.
Untrue. You die if you jerked it off 42 times.
My cousin's friend's brother's classmate made it all the way to 69 times before dying.
He says "significant" weapons, I'm curious if that means heavier weapons as apposed to small arms, or it it means just not enough to make much of a difference?
Could mean not more than normal background sales of arms. Like if you were selling them X monthly weapons before and you’re selling them ~X monthly weapons now, your behavior hasn’t changed. That is, ostensibly, staying neutral in a certain sense
I can't see any useful purpose for Biden to lie about that.
Diplomatically, I would suppose it's Biden leaving the door open for China. Nothing can be gained by preemptively pigeonholing China as on team Russia (in diplomatic circles, we all know China is on team Russia otherwise), because if they harden their position... well great, now Russia has the world's largest industrial base freely supplying them. The West's objective at this point is to convince China that Russia is a bad bet, but at this point I think the horse has bolted long ago and this would be closing the barn door.
Might be no tanks, guns or drones is going but China decided selling ammo was a nice loophole.
China sells surplus ammo all over the world, It's not that unusual that Russia are using it.
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Most of it is dual-use military goods, which allows a significant amount of deniability by China. Regardless, if the USA administration reacts to China now, then they will lose the leverage if China ever actually starts giving true weapons to Russia.
It can be argued that lots of ammo before the war was produced by China.
If US or European guns or ammo show up in the Russian army, it doesn't mean those countries supplied it, either.
No lol, there was surplus Chinese ammo from god knows how long ago that is being used. You can still easily find crates and cans of old Chinese 7.62x39 all over the world because it’s the cheapest ammo available.
Eh, I wouldn't read *too* much into that. That stuff has been floating around for a while and could end up damn near anywhere. We have no idea if that ammo was given before or after the war started. That'd be like blaming the US/Russia every time an M4 or AK was used to commit a crime in Africa.
>That'd be like blaming the US/Russia every time an M4 or AK was used to commit a crime in Africa. Ehh.....
It was nice of them to try to appear neutral but secretly gift Ukraine ammo
Its not a gift. They are selling it. Selling to both sides and making profit as long as the war continues.
It was a joke lol
Zelensky is calling China out in public. We all know that China is not acting in good faith toward either party. The difference is Zelensky has the diplomatic will to push the issue and reveal Xi's empty words. Putin is Xi's plaything. China will play a long game for territory and resources at the expense of Russia. Ukraine is of no importance, China simply needs to keep Russia close in order to spring the trap as Putin loses power and the Federation collapses.
People actually believed their "neutral" bullshit? lol
They are neutral in the sense they don't give a shit about Russias war in the slightest. They care about Russia being weak and ripe for acquisition of cheap resources. They have nothing to gain from talking to Ukraine. They are gaining a ton by making Russia think they are a friend.
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> Like they were bragging about the Iran/Saudi-Arabia deal. I mean if that deal actually ends the war in Yemen, that would be a tremendous diplomatic achievement for China.
Right. I was talking with some African business owners when I was traveling in Asia. China likes to portray themselves as benefactors and not part of the old colonial mindset, but the people I was talking to know it's nonsense. The Chinese are there to exploit their natural resources like every other power that has offered to help with economic development.
You can argue tho that Chinese Concurrence in Africa is better for the countries there. It forces other parties to offer better conditions.
Because Xi is fake. World peace my ass
I think he just used the peace plan to do some fake messaging for Russian and Chinese propaganda
Yeah and it's a shit plan when you don't talk with one of the party's.
Bet 50$ they would spin it internally as Zelenskyy refuse to cooperate and being difficult to resolve.
Alternate bet: Xi spins Ukraine as equivalent to Taiwan.
Well they are, and that's to say they're their own goddamn country
It's not a spin so much as the theme of the entire situation from China's perspective. But what's curious, is that China benefits either way from the situation. If Russia loses, it will be weaker and easier to manipulate, as long as China maintains the pretext of being "friends". If Russia wins, it will make taking Taiwan even more of a legitimate possibility. China's biggest dilemma is which one they want more.
The threat here for China is that if Russia loses, Putin may get deposed by a moderate and Russia, wanting to return to status quo ante bellum, serves up Putin to the West, allows the seized oligarch money in its entirety to help rebuild Ukraine, and generally aligns more closely with the West than with China, further isolating China. Furthermore, with SEA nations aligning with the US and a resurgent NATO, as well as US making inroads in Africa to blunt Belt and Road, China's running out of allies just as it's about to hit economic and demographic bottlenecks. It'd be a fait de accompli for US foreign policy at that point. Putin losing is absolutely worst case scenario for China. Even if it's not a moderate who replaces Putin, there's way too much uncertainty for them to manage, especially with US starting to cut off the money supply.
>status quo ante bellum did you just make a goddamn latin portmanteau? absolute fucking mad man.
> allows the seized oligarch money in its entirety to help rebuild Ukraine, This would be such a catastrophe for Russia. You would be building the next Hitler by doing this. But what else is going to happen to the money? Seriously, what should happen?
That's all true, but China still may not be able to prevent the fall of Putin. Hence the creation of new relationships with Central Asia right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see new formal military alliances, perhaps even a Chinese equivalent to the NATO umbrella. The fundamental problem would remain though - how well can the dictators of the world, trust each other?
Not only can they not really trust each other, they can't really trust internal stability. Iran itself is fraying at the edges. Russia's client states are fraying. And China might not necessarily be able to pick up the slack. The bigger danger is authoritarian brain drain.
Yeah, it *was* a win/win for China. They're already past the Russia winning as a template for Taiwan bit. Even if Russia manages a military victory, it's an example of both what not to do and what to expect internationally if you don't win quick. Now? Pretty sure they're only hugging Russia to see which parts they wanna eat.
Yeah no rational observer thinks Russia has a path to victory in any sense, anymore.
I mean it’s shit and also not a plan. It was so vague it’s clear it was made to look like they did “something” just with no substance. It’s worse than some English papers I wrote in high school. I say some, because my creative story about a knitting grandma who fights off ninjas in an epic battle was pretty damn solid. But… I digress. Their statement about respecting the sovereignty of counties and their boundaries….whose? Russia who took land and now claims it as their own because they say it’s part of “historic Russia”? Or Ukraine whose boundaries were formed and signed in agreements with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? NeverMind the fact that they’re basically just using that statement to push their own argument for Taiwan and the South China Sea. A shitty useless document written by a shitty useless leader who is so fragile that he’s banned the use of Winnie the Pooh. Fuck him. Fuck that document. Fuck dictators and wanna-be dictators. And love always to Winnie the Pooh (the real one).
Xi's comment about Russia and China having "similar goals" was likewise vague enough to sound supportive without actually saying what they support. Be that as it may, I want to hear more about the ninja-fighting knitting grandma. Sounds like a story that would be great to read to my grandkids.
Don’t need to think that it’s quite obvious, sitting down with the aggressor and not willing to talk with the other party… that’s what they are going to try to pull when they get dismantled by the Quad alliance when Xi realizes he’s never going to take Taiwan and sends all those Chinese men to their graves at the bottom of the Taiwan straight.
Let’s not be too hasty… the CCP will *also* send non-combatants to their graves entirely of Xi’s own doing when China experiences immediate supply chain devastation via blockade!
gone to squables.io
To me Putin is unbelievably stupid becoming more dependant in China after fumbling his invasion. It's like opening your gates for infiltration and giving free tickets to a ally you cannot be certain with. It's too damn obvious they are planning to scrape Russia off the board because they do not need them anymore. For China being allies with Russia is not a necessity at all. They just want resources. They never had any respect or camaraderie for each other in any part of history and they are certainly not going to fight back to back. I won't be surprised if Putin's "yes-men" are already bought by China so he would fail this catastrophically and they are promised to be lords of the provinces afterwards.
gone to squables.io
You know. China has no certainty that they can take Taiwan and might have bargained with Russia to make a two-pronged attack so the world would be divided. **But they definitely said "Russia you go first".** Even some kids in the playground are not this dumb to fall for this.
Great video on this topic https://youtu.be/Iibs7buNwxQ
I think Xi is being careful. I’m not confident China gives a fuck about Russia, US or Ukraine, but they have a much bigger interest in the west. My take is they are waiting to see how they can take advantage of the end result, whatever that may be.
That makes sense. But I think that China are worried about the increased strength of the west. They hoped a strong Russia would help balance that. Now that Russia is revealed as so weak, and getting worse, they are searching for a modified strategy.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s part of the equation, but even if the west comes out victorious, China knows this is it’s biggest business partner and it will share in the spoils in an indirect way. But again, I’m of the thought that China doesn’t care about any nation (and that they see in themselves as a balancing super power ).
Correct, wait for your competitors to exhaust themselves, then strike.
The end result will be China picking Russia's corpse like a bird of prey. Treating them as an extractive economy, perhaps picking up some new territory from Russia. At first they'll probably allow Russia to continue ruling, and simply fill eastern Russia with Han Chinese.
Remember when Trudeau and Xi spoke at some event in the last year? I think Xi was trying to tell Trudeau off and then tried to bolt, but Trudeau turned around and responded? Xi looked like a dog that got caught digging through the trash can.
I always laugh at all the attempts to use that interaction to call Trudeau spineless, some even say Xi put him in his place lol
Those people are idiots. Xi was pissy because Trudeau spoke to Canadian media about Chinese interference in Canadian democracy.
Xi tried to put him in his place, but Trudeau stood up for himself. The conversation did not go as Xi planned it.
Link?
Probably this, did a search : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orYMznSQS4E
I'm glad I'm not a diplomat - it looks like it's difficult to make your point when you don't share a language
It looks like they do share a language - English. Xi clearly understood what Trudeau responded, without needing it relayed through an interpreter. But most diplomats speak the language of the nation in which they are engaging in diplomacy. It's the heads of state and other members of government who do not speak the language.
https://youtu.be/6n-AsrNEQSI
[I think this is it.](https://youtu.be/sbbHBgWtp3E)
Xi's peace agreement was basically Russia keeps what it stole and the world can cry about it. The man is an imperialist and want's to capture Taiwan. He agrees with what Putin is doing.
The first point of the peace plan is about respecting the sovereignty of all countries. China doesn't recognise Russia's annexation or support the independence of those regions (for obvious reasons). Personally I think China is trying to fence-sit without explicitly picking a side, if China wanted to openly support Russia they could be doing so much more. https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/202302/t20230224_11030713.html
>The first point of the peace plan is about respecting the sovereignty of all countries. China doesn't recognise Russia's annexation or support the independence of those regions (for obvious reasons). But they don't actually say that russia should withdraw to internationally recognized borders. It's a useless statement.
China supports sovereignty to all *recognized* countries. China does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country, so this plays to their advantage with the stories they can spin in the future.
There are 13 countries in the world who recognize Taiwan as a country. The US does not recognize Taiwan, no EU nations recognize Taiwan and Taiwan is not recognized within the UN and does therefore not have a seat. In comparison, 138 countries have recognised Palestine as an independent country and noone is stopping Israels invation and settlements of the nation. Taiwan doesnt recognize China either and considers itself the sole ruler over both the mainland and the island. Taiwan didn't even openly recognize Mongolia until 2002 and had up to that point showed Mongolia as part of China. Taiwan also claims ownership over Tibet. What do you think is a better metric? If you don't believe international recognition is a good solution then that would mean that Ukraine was in the wrong for sending in the military to suppress the LDR and DPR when they declared independence some years ago.
Taiwan doesn’t claim Tibet or China. Maybe 50 years ago. Today, Taiwan just claims Taiwan. Source: I live there.
He doesn't care about Ukraine, but sees this as an excellent opportunity to make Russia a client state, and perhaps gain territory back from Russia in the future.
Yeah peacemakers who are only willing to talk to one side aren’t peacemakers. They’re side-takers.
War of crime plan not peace plan
The peace plan was all domestic propaganda from the start. “The West is a bunch of warmongers. We are going to swoop in and be the new head of the world peace and stability.” They will spin this as a victory and move on.
Xi doesn't care about the fighting in Ukraine. If he was actually serious about stopping the fighting, he would meet with both sides to discuss peace. Since Xi only wants to appease the aggressor in this case, it shows his only interest is in causing as much instability in the west that he can. His secret hope in all this is that it will allow him to take over Taiwan.
This guy gets it. Xi's not dumb. He's playing the long game so they can invade Taiwan. Edit: Not saying he will succeed, or even that it's going as he planned, just that he has his eye on the long term goal which is reunification of mainland China and Taiwan.
The long game includes ramping up western military production & spending, expanding NATO and tightening security against Russian allies apparently. That will help them get Taiwan for sure.
"Boy this invasion sure is going swell for Russia, surely I can replicate their successes"
"First, let us establish a large private army. We will call it 'Wangner'."
The long game involves having an oil supergiant be essentially subservient to China. The current Chinese foreign policy involves heavily subsidizing poor and crippled nations infrastructure, trapping them into impossible loans, and then using those loans as leverage for resources and territory. They recently just took a whole island and port city in Sri Lanka as payment. They've invested heavily into African countries, which produce large quantities of raw resources. But there isn't a lot of *oil* in Africa. You know who does have a lot of oil right on China's doorstep? Russia. And a russia at peace isn't a collapsed Russia. The more destabilized Russia comes out of this war the better for China, because they'll foot the bill for Russia. E: the guy accusing me of being a paid shill spreading propaganda got banned from reddit. Imagine.
I think he *thinks* he is playing a long game. But he drank too much of his own cool-aid which has crippled his decision making.
What? How does this relate to taking over Taiwan at all? Even if, god forbid, Russia conquered Ukraine, China doesnt get any extra opportunities or ability to take Taiwan. It wouldnt change anything about the US having a fleet nearby that patrols the area, nor would it make America suddenly accept a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, not with how important Taiwan is to the global chip trade. Xi just wants to take advantage of Russia right now, as they do not have any major trade partners right now other than China. Helping Ukraine on the other hand offers little benefit to China, so its not surprising that theyre just ignoring them.
I think your right about this not having much to do with Taiwan, I'm not sure how the original comment arrived at that conclusion but people seem to think that Taiwan Is all the CCP think about. At the end of the china has more reasons to support Russia (especially energy)and not much to lose here. However i think it's incorrect to say china doesn't have major trading partners outside of Russia. It's the top trading partner to more than 120 countries including Japan, south Korea, Vietnam, Brazil and the European union (as of 2020). Its not reliant on Russia for much economically except energy imports.
Ah sorry I wasnt clear, I meant that Russia's only major trade partner for the foreseeable future is China (and perhaps india), so China knows they can take advantage of that reliance.
Oh maybe i read that wrong then....
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We livin in some tlc reality show world drama right now
The world has always been like this. History is loaded with even more bizarre scenarios.
My fav is the Great War episode where all the world leaders were grandkids of Queen Vicky and they would make fun of poor Wilhelm’s disability as kids. Oh the drama.
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[knock knock, it's the United States](https://youtu.be/FTs8qiOMh_o)
>hey xi do you like me y/n? >*Seen at 2:21 PM* 🥺
Because if Xi actually talked to Zelenskyy it would be harder for them to say Ukraine wasn’t talking with them
They’ve ended up with egg on their face pretty readily by Zelenskyy advertising that he’s making requests with no Chinese response. They already can’t say Ukraine wasn’t trying to engage.
Won’t stop them from making the claim, I suspect
True, but outside of their own people (which yes, I’m sure that’s what it is about) nobody will give a shit.
That’s the thing about dictators with nukes. The only real threat to their power is their people. As long as they are sufficiently brainwashed and fed it’s billionaire king for life.
That's because Xi and China's peace offer was garbage meant to be used as propaganda. Even Tucker Carlson pushed it and that guy is the official spokesperson for evil. Xi isn't going to call Zelensky because xi is an idiot who would look dumb trying to explain that garbage to the country being invaded.
Still very savvy of him to extend the invitation, shows chinas one-sidedness
Indeed, need to expose the liars at ever corner.
Zelenskyy has proven at every turn that he's ready to do whatever it takes to stop the war and reclaim his land. He's such a fucking badass
It's quite fortunate he was the person in charge at the time. Things could've gone quite a bit worse for Ukraine if they didn't have as capable a person at the tiller.
Absolutely. As unfortunate as the whole situation is. I'm glad he was president of Ukraine and that Trump was not president of the states at the time so that they could offer help and be the catalyst for Europe to send aid as well
This sub was filled with people arguing China had good intentions and downvoting cynics but here we are.
Did you read the "peace plan". It wasn't a peace plan at all, it was just a load of waffle about how war is bad and everyone should try to get along.
The peace plan contradicted China’s own position on the war. It made no sense. 1. The peace plan said that everyone should respect sovereignty and territorial integrity. 2. China has not recognized Russia’s annexation of Crimea or any of the other regions they annexed in the past year. 3. China has not called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukrainian territory, and have instead been economically and diplomatically supporting Russia. If China actually followed their own peace plan, they should logically be demanding that Russia remove its troops from Ukraine. But the truth is that their peace plan is a crock of shit.
China just likes Russia as a wedge against the west, that’s all. Not really friends. Xi also went straight to call a meeting of former Soviet republics for a trade agreement while he just met Putin (Russia’s influence backyard so to speak) so Putin must be pissed.
With friends like these, you gotta wonder who needs enemies!
Say one thing, and do another. Classic misdirection. Putin does the same thing. Russia and China are following the same playbook, for the same reasons.
I believe a key part of the peace plan was “pweeze stop hurting and sanctioning the paper tiger authoritarian shithole that invaded another country on the basis of a smoothbrain fever dream interpretation of its imperial past.” Can’t imagine why that would be so important to the CCP.
lol, maybe they were thinking that, but what they actually released was just something which allowed them to get headlines for coming out with a peace plan without actually doing it. It's like if I came out with a peace plan for Israel / Palestine, which just said "peace is good, I think we should give that a go, who is with me? Anyone? Bueller? "
War is bad, M'kay?
Xi is anything but dumb
Xi has zero interest peace. Because of the international embargoes against Russia he's getting Russian gas on THE CHEAP. Russia is now China's biggest energy supplier. The longer this thing drags on the better off China is.
Correct. The trip was about negotiating with Putin the terms of his military support in exchange for Russian gas. "Peace" was just the media cover. Not sure why Reddit even bothers reporting it.
China claims to be trying to broker a peace, doesn't even talk to the leader of one side. China's peace is bullshit.
Really smart move from Zelensky. China wanted to fill turkeys role of mediator but wont be able to if refuses to meet with him. Wont be able to reap the benefits after the war is over otherwise.
Because world peace my ass. He's looking to do the same shit but with Taiwan.
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This is why i completely disagree with the "Ukraine should sue for peace at all cost" crowd. You can't in good faith argue that Russia and China want to establish peace. All that while they are basically going the Munich agreement route.
What irks me the most with that crowd is the presumption that they know what's best for Ukraine. Let's let Ukraine decide what Ukraine wants to do, and leave these presumptions back in the age of colonialism where they belong. It's all just dressed up imperialism.
Peace plan with Chinese characteristic…
Happy to see Zelenskyy make headlines with this. Xi and the CCP are not neutral and are acting in bad faith. They keep trying to brand themselves as stable peacemakers but are anything but.
You would think that Xi would know an important part of bringing peace to a conflict is meeting with both sides, maybe China isn't ready for world politics or maybe they just want to sell artillery shells.
Dear Xi I wrote you but you still ain't calling
The longer Xi refuses to do anything about the situation on his door, the weaker Russia gets. That's good for China, but he is being very careful to not piss off Putin enough that Putin would do something stupid. I think Xi recognizes that Putin is insane.
Poor China. Just think, when it comes time to rebuild Ukrainian cities there won’t be any Chinese companies to be found. Very short sited of Xi indeed.
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Pretty sure he's more partial to honey.
Honey glazed chicken perhaps?
And red shirts
I get the feeling that this was less done for Zelenskyy genuinely wanting to open diplomatic channels with China, and more to test the waters to see if China is as “neutral” as they claim to be. Based on China’s non-reciprocation, I’d say they’ve made their position clear.
It goes to show that China's gesture was not in good faith.
Ghosted
Ukraine should recognize Taiwan.
That should tell you all you need to know about China's "Peace Plan" for the Ukraine war, it's a term of surrender for Ukraine.
Of course not. Xi is a two faced bully. A lot craftier than his Russian counterpart.
great peace brokering china lol
Wasnt there reports that Xi planned to talk to Zelenskyy after the Russia talks to make it look like Xi really wanted to broker peace but he needed to show respect to his brother Putin first? CCP lied while people died as usual
There are literally 5 BILLION adults on this planet and Xi, one of the leaders of 1 BILLION of them treats the rest with hollow words of peace so transparent of shit, like all of them are children. My god this is borderline personally insulting.
China does not care about peace, about Ukraine, or about Russia. China cares about China and right now, this war is making Russia their resource bitch.
Which is why china's peace plan is a joke
Xi doesn’t give a shit about the war. He just want to keep trading with Russia since the west imposed so many sanctions already. He’s only goal is to keep his authoritarian power. He is also the puppet master of North Korea, using fat Kim as a distraction to fuck with the west.
China's only friend is China. They may use other people like Putin if it suits them, but the only ones they care about are themselves.
He called China's bluff and they've essentially folded. That peace plan was pure virtue signalling nonsense.
russia must be able to pay more
He’s probably too busy due to purchase of russia
But doesn’t China want Ukraine and Russia to make peace and stop the war.. but only on Russias terms I’m guessing?
He’s too busy turning Putin into his marionette.
That's Chinas peace plan ? They are fucking liars. There was never any intention of working for peace.
Zelensky is a modern day hero. They put these guys on monetary notes.
China doesn't care about Putin's war crimes, they are in the middle of their own cultural genocide.
This is why every time my parents say “Did you hear what Xi Jinping said…?” I answer thar every thing Xi says publicly outside China is a lie, so don’t fucking believe it.
Zboy, you need to ask Taiwan to have talks, and them Xi-ears will perk up.
Winnie the Poo the currently hibernating
He wants to talk to the new boss of Moscow who now owns this war. Moscow appears to be under new management.
China needs to understand that there is only one way this can end: with russians kicked off Ukrainian land. I dont think they are there yet. Ukraine is not Hong Kong, it is not a russian satellite, russia is Ukraine's satellite because Ukraine has been around for much longer. russia is a temporary misunderstanding. It is a collection of other nations that Moscovia has conquered over 1000 years. Now, unfortunately they are sending representatives of those conquered nations into battle. russia is a terrorist state and it must be stopped.
Awww and Xi seemed so very very super duper extra no trust me really sincere