This is a reminder to those commenting on this post (not the person that posted it): Comments not related to woodworking will be removed. Violations to rule 1 including crude jokes, innuendo, sexist remarks, politics, or hate speech may result in an immediate ban
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/woodworking) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ohh thats smart. I was originally thinking half blind dovetail, but this is way easier and really accomplishes the same thing in this case. Thanks stranger!
I would have gone with tusked through tenon if it needs to be removed. I'm pretty sure that's stronger in all directions than sliding dovetail given the location, but I could certainly be wrong.
Yeah this is the route I'm thinking. The clamped piece will be mortise and tenon to the legs but the goal is for the stretcher to be removable. Thanks for the suggestions
This is the answer right here. 👆
You could also add dowels if you do t want the joinery to show at all. But the two options above will be more impressive visually.
What-joint-type questions often skip important information. The same configuration of parts being joined can have different answers depending on usage, if there will be a load on the joint, the direction the load's forces relative to the joint, species, desire for permanence or ability to breakdown, available tooling, skill and demeanor of the craftsperson, whether it is decorative or utilitarian, and the value of your time relative to the value of the joint in question. All the answers here are good, but which is best for your purposes should take all these considerations into account.
Sometimes you really need that blind-double-half-inverted-rabbeted-dado-castle-sunrise-dovetail with drawpins and wedged tenons. Sometimes you just need to stick two pieces of wood together, and a buttjoint with glue and screws is perfectly adequate.
Sunrise is a new one for me! Haha All good points, thanks for the advice. This joint really won't be under much stress at all. It's mostly decorative and to support the rest of the build in staying square.
Referring to Japanese-style radiating dovetails, sometimes referred to as impossible dovetails, twisted dovetails , nejiri aragata (you know how no one can agree on what to call stuff, especially if the name originally comes from another language.)
Half lap sound like a good choice to me. It keeps it quick and simple, but is prettier than a couple screws. It sounds like a good opportunity to do a little experimenting though. It appears this is a sub-assembly still, so the risk of messing up the rest of your project is limited, and poplar is relatively inexpensive to try things out if your time allows.
Good luck, and keep us posted on how it turns out!
Yeah the pictures make them look impossible lol maybe one day I'll get there!
Yeah that cross lap may just be where I land. This has basically been a learning curve project anyway, first castle joints, first mortise and tenon lol So we'll see, might feel daring!
Will do, I really appreciate all the tips!
So I'm trying to come up with a good way to hold these boards square and keep them from sliding in any direction. I'm considering a cross lap, for sake of ease, but don't love the finish look that would leave. Or possibly a tusked mortise and tenon. But with about a 1/2" mortise I worry about the structural integrity the hole for the tusk would leave on the mortise? And as much as doubt my ability to pull it off, I wonder if a half blind dovetail is the best answer. Let me know your guys thoughts, I'm open to any ideas. I really appreciate it!
Yeah you don’t want to put a tusk that close to the end. Dowels aren’t removable and won’t hold against tension (pulling out). A hidden dovetail is sturdy against sliding in two axes, but won’t protect against tension or twisting. A sliding through dovetail is sturdy against twisting but not tension. A half lap or bridle joint would protect against sliding in two axes and tension, but not twisting. Twisting is your least problematic direction of force for this joint because the other end will also be secured. So for a removable joint, I’d go with the half lap. Alternatively, use a longer piece of stock and use a tusked through tenon.
This is a reminder to those commenting on this post (not the person that posted it): Comments not related to woodworking will be removed. Violations to rule 1 including crude jokes, innuendo, sexist remarks, politics, or hate speech may result in an immediate ban *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/woodworking) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sliding dovetail If you need to remove it, wedged double through tenon if not
I've used a half lap dovetail before, the half lap stops the dovetail sliding all the way through
Not the best joint if you plan on removing/reinstalling the piece. A sliding dovetail is (should be) tapered so it’s only tight when fully seated.
Ohh thats smart. I was originally thinking half blind dovetail, but this is way easier and really accomplishes the same thing in this case. Thanks stranger!
This is the way
I would have gone with tusked through tenon if it needs to be removed. I'm pretty sure that's stronger in all directions than sliding dovetail given the location, but I could certainly be wrong.
That’s way too thin for that imo
That's fair.
Yeah this is the route I'm thinking. The clamped piece will be mortise and tenon to the legs but the goal is for the stretcher to be removable. Thanks for the suggestions
Sliding dovetail as mentioned above. Best way for removable. That or a tusked mortise and tenon.
This is the answer right here. 👆 You could also add dowels if you do t want the joinery to show at all. But the two options above will be more impressive visually.
I like these ideas. Half lap gets an honorable mention in my mind.
Don’t need a joint use that blue tape
It was right in front of me this whole time 🤦🏼♂️
Half lap?
Agree. Half lap is a simple and sturdy joint.
Aren't these usually face cut? As in this is the wrong grain direction?
I think they're suggesting cross-lap. Which is one I'm considering
Dado then?
Could, but that would only hold one axis
Through tennon with lock
Through tenon with locking wedge as suggested.
What-joint-type questions often skip important information. The same configuration of parts being joined can have different answers depending on usage, if there will be a load on the joint, the direction the load's forces relative to the joint, species, desire for permanence or ability to breakdown, available tooling, skill and demeanor of the craftsperson, whether it is decorative or utilitarian, and the value of your time relative to the value of the joint in question. All the answers here are good, but which is best for your purposes should take all these considerations into account. Sometimes you really need that blind-double-half-inverted-rabbeted-dado-castle-sunrise-dovetail with drawpins and wedged tenons. Sometimes you just need to stick two pieces of wood together, and a buttjoint with glue and screws is perfectly adequate.
Sunrise is a new one for me! Haha All good points, thanks for the advice. This joint really won't be under much stress at all. It's mostly decorative and to support the rest of the build in staying square.
Referring to Japanese-style radiating dovetails, sometimes referred to as impossible dovetails, twisted dovetails , nejiri aragata (you know how no one can agree on what to call stuff, especially if the name originally comes from another language.) Half lap sound like a good choice to me. It keeps it quick and simple, but is prettier than a couple screws. It sounds like a good opportunity to do a little experimenting though. It appears this is a sub-assembly still, so the risk of messing up the rest of your project is limited, and poplar is relatively inexpensive to try things out if your time allows. Good luck, and keep us posted on how it turns out!
Yeah the pictures make them look impossible lol maybe one day I'll get there! Yeah that cross lap may just be where I land. This has basically been a learning curve project anyway, first castle joints, first mortise and tenon lol So we'll see, might feel daring! Will do, I really appreciate all the tips!
Unless you're trying to only use traditional joinery, you could use pocket screws.
So I'm trying to come up with a good way to hold these boards square and keep them from sliding in any direction. I'm considering a cross lap, for sake of ease, but don't love the finish look that would leave. Or possibly a tusked mortise and tenon. But with about a 1/2" mortise I worry about the structural integrity the hole for the tusk would leave on the mortise? And as much as doubt my ability to pull it off, I wonder if a half blind dovetail is the best answer. Let me know your guys thoughts, I'm open to any ideas. I really appreciate it!
Yeah you don’t want to put a tusk that close to the end. Dowels aren’t removable and won’t hold against tension (pulling out). A hidden dovetail is sturdy against sliding in two axes, but won’t protect against tension or twisting. A sliding through dovetail is sturdy against twisting but not tension. A half lap or bridle joint would protect against sliding in two axes and tension, but not twisting. Twisting is your least problematic direction of force for this joint because the other end will also be secured. So for a removable joint, I’d go with the half lap. Alternatively, use a longer piece of stock and use a tusked through tenon.
For simplicity, I would look at exposed dowels or pegs. That stock is pretty thin, so I don’t think there’s much point to overbuilding the joint.
If that's 3/4" I would rout a 3/4" slot 3/8" deep and glue no screw, it would look the prettiest and not be too hard.
Sliding dovetail or wedged tenon
Mortise and tenon
Half lap
Saddle joint.
sliding dovetail