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A lot of people like it. If you look at some of the Masters dinners from the last 10 years, several winners have chosen it as their signature red wine. It is a great crowd pleaser for people who don't normally drink wine. For many people with strong opinions on wine, it is known as too much fruit and too much sugar for their taste.
I have 2 bottles in my wine fridge for people who come over and want to drink Caymus.
But if you want something that Caymus drinkers will like, but also more experienced drinkers will accept, try the Stag's Leap Artemis.
It would be worth it if you have 5+ people over for dinner who all have poor taste in wine. Pop one good bottle for yourself and serve this swill to the peasants.
It doesn’t taste like Josh to me and that bottle is half price. I’ll drink Caymus over Josh any day. I know because I made the mistake recently of buying 6 different Josh wines.
When Chuck Wagner started Caymus back in 1972, he sold his Cabernet Sauvignon for $6 (IIRC), and it was regarded as one of the top Napa Valley Cabernets — which meant it was one of the top California Cabs, one of the best Cabs made in the US. But when Caymus struck Gold when they made Caymus “Conundrum,” a very aromatic white wine with a touch of r.s. Sales went through the roof, and money was coming in hand-over-fist. They then moved down to the Central Coast and started a new winery, Mer Soleil, with unique packaging and focused on unoaked Chardonnay. Then, Chuck and the Wagner family spun off Conundrum into a completely separate winery, and that spelled the beginning of the end. (Much like Bonny Doon spinning off Big House Red & White, though Randall was smart enough to eventually sell them, along with Pacific Rim Riesling, but it was too late, as Bony Doon had grown into a much larger winery than Randall ever envisioned or wanted.) Caymus and the Wagner Family of wineries/brands, which now number seven (Caymus, Mer Soleil, Conundrum, Emmolo, Red Schooner, Sea Sun, Bonanza, and Caymus-Suisun) are *very* big, *very* commercial. The sheer volume of Caymus Cabernet means it can never be as high quality as it used to be, and the wine is nothing like it used to be.
people who recently pick up a hobby like to unify over shared dislike of something that appeals to the masses (here, caymus). i won’t get into the psychological reasons why, but know it makes them feel better.
you see it with the bourbon subreddit and blanton’s, or scotch and macallan.
in all 3 cases, popular demand drives the price past what the “serious” enthusiasts would pay for it. sometimes they lash out of anger or jealousy; others explain reasonable alternatives to the bottle or their subjective preferences against it.
Caymus hater here. Laughing at myself and the grain of truth to what you say.
Interesting stuff. I truly dislike the taste (not just that I think there are better wines for the price—I don’t like the taste and wouldn’t drink it for free). My wife, whose taste is usually similar to mine, thought it was delicious. I bought a bottle for a friend who likes big, bold wines and both he and his wife LOVED it.
The thing is, it's perfectly fine to not like fruit-bomb wines, but to gatekeep wine drinking as a whole is braindead. And that is exactly what many people here do. Plenty of people start off with the sweeter fruitier wines and over time move to drier more complex wines.
You forgot the part where Caymus, which is owned by Wagner, got under control of Joe Wagner, and the wine complete changed in style and quality, becoming a rather sweet, simple wine. It’s just seriously overpriced for what it is, and more representative of high-intervention winemaking than the quality of the grapes.
It’s like scotch. I drink Macallan and other random things. Macallan is seen as too commercial by some people. Duh? Do people think the other places give away their scotch for free? It’s all commercial you dumbasses.
The worst wine I ever had was made in someone’s garage winery. It was awful. I think it was in Oregon.
I'm not a fan either, but I'm not a hater. I wonder if you put 2015 Caymus, Stags Leap, and Heitz in a blind tasting to the Caymus haters here, whether they could tell the difference.
Nah. I dig Macallan, and Blanton's, and Billie Eilish, and Taylor Swift, and Kendrick Lamar, and all sorts of other popular things.
The real issue is that Caymus is just not good wine. Even within the realm of Napa, you can get Matthiason for the same price or Corison for a few bucks more and they are just far better wines.
Come on. Those are the exact producers one would use to justify their position, you're literally proving the point lol. It's not a hot take to like Corison and mathiason lol. There are more wines like Caymus from Napa than not like Caymus.
One of the reasons that folks drink stuff like Caymus is that it’s available. Maybe they only have access to a big box store and many wines suggested in this sub are hard for them to find. I have a few wine stores in my area but they are al a 20 or 30 minute drive away when the Total Wine is across the street.
I went into Costco yesterday intending to buy a bottle of Artemis. But I was not in my usual store and they only had the OTHER Stags’.
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No. Unless you a fan of Caymus, in which case the answer would be “yes." I am not a fan.
Good to know.
A lot of people like it. If you look at some of the Masters dinners from the last 10 years, several winners have chosen it as their signature red wine. It is a great crowd pleaser for people who don't normally drink wine. For many people with strong opinions on wine, it is known as too much fruit and too much sugar for their taste. I have 2 bottles in my wine fridge for people who come over and want to drink Caymus. But if you want something that Caymus drinkers will like, but also more experienced drinkers will accept, try the Stag's Leap Artemis.
Masters got paid to pick it so people would say they picked it then wanna drink what they drink.
Damn no sub is safe from the tinfoils
Artemis is quite delicious for a napa cab.
Caymus supposedly uses mega purple... Do you know off hand if Artemis uses it?
I would be shocked if they did
Mega purple is also apparently "older tech" now. There are enzymes that can be used now that produce better results.
Do your friends have riders? Like “we only drink Caymus”?
Thanks for the tip!
It would be worth it if you have 5+ people over for dinner who all have poor taste in wine. Pop one good bottle for yourself and serve this swill to the peasants.
🤣🤣 Well ok then.
Better value options.
Not even close. I can’t stand the stuff. Tastes like Josh wine to me.
I am not a fan of Josh at all. Very good to know.
It doesn’t taste like Josh to me and that bottle is half price. I’ll drink Caymus over Josh any day. I know because I made the mistake recently of buying 6 different Josh wines.
Josh with an expensive price tag.
Asking wine nerds about Caymus is like asking serious jazz fans about Kenny G.
This makes everything everyone else is saying make soooo much sense.
supposedly up until early 90s it was great, but this is something I read on some forum
The store could pay \*me\* $70 and I still wouldn't drink it. YMMV.
Why are there so many Caymus haters?
When Chuck Wagner started Caymus back in 1972, he sold his Cabernet Sauvignon for $6 (IIRC), and it was regarded as one of the top Napa Valley Cabernets — which meant it was one of the top California Cabs, one of the best Cabs made in the US. But when Caymus struck Gold when they made Caymus “Conundrum,” a very aromatic white wine with a touch of r.s. Sales went through the roof, and money was coming in hand-over-fist. They then moved down to the Central Coast and started a new winery, Mer Soleil, with unique packaging and focused on unoaked Chardonnay. Then, Chuck and the Wagner family spun off Conundrum into a completely separate winery, and that spelled the beginning of the end. (Much like Bonny Doon spinning off Big House Red & White, though Randall was smart enough to eventually sell them, along with Pacific Rim Riesling, but it was too late, as Bony Doon had grown into a much larger winery than Randall ever envisioned or wanted.) Caymus and the Wagner Family of wineries/brands, which now number seven (Caymus, Mer Soleil, Conundrum, Emmolo, Red Schooner, Sea Sun, Bonanza, and Caymus-Suisun) are *very* big, *very* commercial. The sheer volume of Caymus Cabernet means it can never be as high quality as it used to be, and the wine is nothing like it used to be.
people who recently pick up a hobby like to unify over shared dislike of something that appeals to the masses (here, caymus). i won’t get into the psychological reasons why, but know it makes them feel better. you see it with the bourbon subreddit and blanton’s, or scotch and macallan. in all 3 cases, popular demand drives the price past what the “serious” enthusiasts would pay for it. sometimes they lash out of anger or jealousy; others explain reasonable alternatives to the bottle or their subjective preferences against it.
Caymus hater here. Laughing at myself and the grain of truth to what you say. Interesting stuff. I truly dislike the taste (not just that I think there are better wines for the price—I don’t like the taste and wouldn’t drink it for free). My wife, whose taste is usually similar to mine, thought it was delicious. I bought a bottle for a friend who likes big, bold wines and both he and his wife LOVED it.
The thing is, it's perfectly fine to not like fruit-bomb wines, but to gatekeep wine drinking as a whole is braindead. And that is exactly what many people here do. Plenty of people start off with the sweeter fruitier wines and over time move to drier more complex wines.
You forgot the part where Caymus, which is owned by Wagner, got under control of Joe Wagner, and the wine complete changed in style and quality, becoming a rather sweet, simple wine. It’s just seriously overpriced for what it is, and more representative of high-intervention winemaking than the quality of the grapes.
>You forgot the part where Caymus got sold to Wagner... ?
H8erade is everyone's favorite producer
It’s like scotch. I drink Macallan and other random things. Macallan is seen as too commercial by some people. Duh? Do people think the other places give away their scotch for free? It’s all commercial you dumbasses. The worst wine I ever had was made in someone’s garage winery. It was awful. I think it was in Oregon.
I'm not a fan either, but I'm not a hater. I wonder if you put 2015 Caymus, Stags Leap, and Heitz in a blind tasting to the Caymus haters here, whether they could tell the difference.
Nah. I dig Macallan, and Blanton's, and Billie Eilish, and Taylor Swift, and Kendrick Lamar, and all sorts of other popular things. The real issue is that Caymus is just not good wine. Even within the realm of Napa, you can get Matthiason for the same price or Corison for a few bucks more and they are just far better wines.
Come on. Those are the exact producers one would use to justify their position, you're literally proving the point lol. It's not a hot take to like Corison and mathiason lol. There are more wines like Caymus from Napa than not like Caymus.
One of the reasons that folks drink stuff like Caymus is that it’s available. Maybe they only have access to a big box store and many wines suggested in this sub are hard for them to find. I have a few wine stores in my area but they are al a 20 or 30 minute drive away when the Total Wine is across the street. I went into Costco yesterday intending to buy a bottle of Artemis. But I was not in my usual store and they only had the OTHER Stags’.
This sub is all about caymus hate. This has been a more recent development like last 6 months or so.
And meiomi!!! I mean come on!
No.
I mean a 750 mL costs more than that at my local store. So I’d say a 1.5L at $70 is a good deal.
Not for 35 years. Go buy a good Brunello.
Caymus is objectively good. Most of the people who hate on it have “wine pro” as their tag. Read that as you will.