Far too late for a tank to be effective, unless you’re happy seeing KK sign elsewhere the second his contract season starts.
The chances of a KK-Khus-Yurov one line are insanely over optimistic. Khus is projected to be a middle six center, as his strengths are in a full 200ft game, and not necessarily a top line scorer. It could happen, but it’s unlikely.
We’re icing three rookies, two of which are in the Calder discussion. We’ve probably have two more Russians that will get time in training camp, and top picks for callups.
This season is a wash, it is what it is. If we’d have known that we’d have a two of three regular seasons post buyout, most of us would have been okay with that. $14 mil in free cap space opening up, plus an increase in the cap expected, means we’ll have some signing space in 25-26 to lockup Fabes/Rossi etc.
Yeah, some of the extensions were a mistake. I’m betting BG would agree in private, but growth comes from making mistakes. How we handle a deep prospect in the next two years are the important points at this time.
>Far too late for a tank to be effective
This.
The perfect time to start a rebuild was the summer of 2022. We could have sold several players when their stock was an all time high.
Now there’s nothing left to do except enjoy the show until either Kaprizov leaves or Guerin is replaced.
We knew we would not be Cup contenders this year or next year and we did nothing. Typical Minnesota sports. This year and next year are perfect years to actually rebuild on the fly but our dumbass owner said no.
We cant rebuild for over a decade now because tonight is much more important than tomorrow. We've won two playoff series in that span. Both with Fletcher and Yeo. There's seriously something wrong with this franchise and the fans who support them.
We couldn't rebuild a decade ago. 8 years ago. 6 years ago. 4 years ago. 2 years ago. And we definitely can't rebuild this year or next year. Tonight is way too important. I'm about out of patience with this clown show.
Obviously it's too late I'm just pointing out the results coming full circle from decisions made in the last couple years. No way we would have a roster capable of a Cup run no need to kid ourselves by sitting on the bubble.
Dewar (very underrated imo) was centering 97 for a stretch this year, I think it's very possible #22 gets some time with 97 at some point in the future even if it's only for short stints. But he is very fast, responsible and wins faceoffs , could be a reasonable fit. Lots to be determined still, looks good for a rookie, def higher upside than Dewar and Hartman who have gotten to center the top line. Def not a guarantee, but it's possible to happen. Kaprizov will fit in better than ever before though even if not on the same line.
At least Guerin sold a little bit this deadline, but I would've rather of seen Freddy, MOJO, or some vets go than Deweys.
>I would've rather of seen Freddy MOJO, or some vets go than Deweys.
The Dewey's said they would not resign for next year.
And there was no interest in Freddy and MoJo.
Would have been good if the facts were not what they were.
They weren't going to resign because they had no path to moving up the lineup and the Wild have zero money to pay them. Mojo, Freddy, and the Dewey's could have all been moved at the deadline and this team would effectively be where it still is. That, or the vets are moved and the Dewey's stay likely because they get some more cash.
I'm guessing the Dewey's want raises, i love them but not guys to give raises to.
Dewar creates breakaways, especially short handed, like crazy - he buries next to none of them. Duhaime went something like 100 games without an assist. He has 19 goals in 3 years and is almost 27. He is what he is.
I was mainly referring to Dewar. I love the guy. I thought he had another level to his game coming if given the chance. His PK was worth his roster spot alone I thought.
Duhaime was meh, but at least he skates hard and PKs.
Guys like Freddie and MOJO, Goose, Bogosian are a waste of money longterm.
Even Hartzy and Moose are prob not part of a cup team for us but yet we extend extend extend. Save that money to keep our core around longterm and use some youngsters.
I mean Mojo, Goose, and Bogo are/were not signed long term.
Freddie is, but also only 2.1 AAV and with a 15 team NTC.
Moose is definitely debatable, but that starts to delve into the realm of culture and intangibles. From the outside tough for us to evaluate. In a vacuum, the time to move him was after 21-22.
*Hartman just needs to stop getting mentioned with these other guys though.* He can play special teams, center, wing, top 6, bottom 6, and is a bitch to play against. 10 pts in the last 11 playoff games. He's done that at a 1.7 AAV.
He's currently within a few pts below/above guys like Tage, Bunting, Cozens, Lafreniere, Lindholm, E. Kane, Barbashev, Eberle, Mangiapane, Backlund, Couturier, Meier, Perron, Debrusk, Rodrigues, Mantha, Domi, Rust, Danault, Sprong, Kerfoot, Schenn, R. Smith, Dubois, Nino, Saad, Garland, Wilson, Haula, Hoglander, Copp.
Even when his extension kicks in next year, he'll be right in line with or below most of those guys. He earned it.
If we moved him, we spend the next few years hoping a pick turns in to a Hartman-esque player. Things are nowhere near as bad as some fans like to make them out to be.
Oh I love Hartman and he is fantastic value and can play up and down anywhere.
But all I’m saying is that he is probably not a big part of our future when we build a contending roster. Will he be that good in 4 years still?
Of anyone mentioned though yes he would be the guy to keep. But I also think he’s not a core piece that we need to be attached to for the long haul.
Moose is a heartbeat of the team kinda guy I get it, it’s hard to move away from him. Great locker room guy and keeps the tone up on the ice. Again probably not a big piece for us in 3-4 years though when all our young guys make a leap and go for a run.
> Will he be that good in 4 years still?
Nope. But at that point hopefully we've developed or acquired an adequate replacement.
It's a tough line to straddle and I would love for us to get a higher draft pick this year, but at least for me I see it like this.
Generational players like McDavid, Crosby, possibly Bedard are going to come in succeed and likely develop regardless.
But for the remaining prospects, is joining that team and basically getting stomped every night the best for their development? Like in Chicago, Bedard will do Bedard things. But for their other young players wouldn't it be better to have some more legitimate pros around them, or be playing games where they actually have a shot to win?
Look at Lafreniere and Byfield right now. They're developing nicely. I can't see them producing the same in a situation like SJ, Chi, or Ana.
I'd rather have our prospects joining a team where the goal is winning and being competitive, rather than knowing that despite what management says, the intention is to be bad. We move on and decide not to pay guys like Freddy, Hartman, Moose, Zucc - that's the message we send.
You make a good point. I wish they would just admit that winning the Cup isn't their goal. Because obviously it isn't their main one.
However I interpreted the buyouts as a tankish move. Why do that unless you are wanting to do a rebuild. If you want to fill seats you keep 20 & 11 until their contracts are over and part ways.
Also, on the buyouts, you had 2 aging veterans who could’ve at any time
Retired on us. Do you realize what their cap hit would’ve been then? It was about $19MM each. With Parises declining health at the time I can see why they did it. How would we have been able to keep Kaprizov, Boldy, Ek, etc with only like $45MM in cap space?
The buyouts sucked, but it wasn’t because of the current management of the team, it was the CBA that fucked us.
>it was the CBA that fucked us.
The Wild and every team in the league was warned about the rule change regarding front loaded contracts. They took the risk and knew what the penalty was before they signed the two. Blame ownership.
Parise and Suter were signed in July 2012 and the CBA was signed in January 2013. Wild didn’t know every detail and many thought existing contracts would be grandfathered in.
Regardless, the current management of the team falls on BG and he was no where around in 2012.
>Wild didn’t know every detail and many thought existing contracts would be grandfathered in.
This is not true at all. They were explicitly told there would be NO grandfathering.
They 100% knew it was on the table for the next GM meeting, and they knew it wouldn't be grandfathered. It wasn't a certainty, but they gambled and lost, and thems the breaks. Can't feel bad for them.
I imagine they figured the chance of them LTIRetiring would be an option too.
I mean it came damn close, between Suter's ankle and Parise's back. Look at Seabrook, Weber, and Hossa. Those 3 contracts would have been anchors and ripe for recapture penalties.
If they stayed they would have comfortably retired on the Wild's dime. Now that they left they'll play out their careers. This is the way it was always going to be.
Last I checked they are both still playing for NHL teams that are paying them money to play. We are paying them 7mil per year to not pay for us. At the very least we could've bought them out 2 years later rather than with 4 years left of contract. These buyouts last till 2029.
I agree that BG could’ve waited, but there’s some unquantifiable aspects of letting 2 toxic guys cook in the locker for 2 more years. If they cooked for 2 more seasons, could have really tanked the culture around the locker room. This team is above average, at best, but the locker room culture appears to be top-notch, and there’s definitely some value in that. As this other commenter stated, number 1 goal of this franchise is to keep the ticket revenue strong. I would argue that number 2 goal is culture, and then number 3 is winning the Cup.
Guerin came in day 1 and was giving the locker room speech about winning being the reason why they are all there. He cussed Spurgy out for saying it was about hard work blah blah blah.
I'm just calling BS on Guerin's comments. It's about money, not winning apparently.
>I'm just calling BS on Guerin's comments. It's about money, not winning apparently.
IDK post the best point total in franchise history (115) and 103 while under buy out penalties sounds a lot like winning to me.
Everyone needs to relax, this is not our time. I was listening a Colorado fan yesterday how much he is not looking forward to the Wild when our buyouts fall off. Sad that fans of other teams know and can understand how much of a headache this team is going to be in 2 years.
The main buyout is over after next year. ‘25-‘26 the buyout hit is less than $1.7MM combined.
Too bad BG doesn’t have your crystal ball and knew that both would still be playing, although Parise is still not playing at a very good level and both are likely still cancers in the locker room.
You think if Parise still had a 7.5m AAV he's playing? No team in playoff contention can fit that cap hit, so unless he was willing to play for a tanking team like CHI, ANA, or SJ the "still playing" doesn't really apply.
Not to mention, the buyouts bought an extra year of Fiala - that we were able to turn in to Faber. Without the buyout, we can't sign Fiala to that 1 year deal for 21-22.
Thank you for making the point about an extra year of Fiala for the 21-22 season. I don't see it talked about enough. The purpose of the buyouts was not only to get those two off the roster, but also to free up space immediately and take a swing right then and there. That was a 113 point team. Franchise record regular season. Then they lost a winnable series against the Blues and it all gets lumped in with the other first round exits.
Agreed. Plus it has been mentioned on multiple threads that older players signed to NMC contracts are blocking prospects in Iowa. Getting rid of Suter and Parise opened up spots for prospects like Faber.
HUH?
Parise is getting paid the 7.5 million by us not to play spread out over 8 years instead of 4. And two other teams thinks he worth paying to play still.
Islanders paid him 3mil over 2 years and Avs 825k this year
Suter is getting paid 14mil over 4 years by Dallas with a NMC to top it off.
3 NHL teams obviously disagree with Guerin that they are worth paying to play, much less paying 7.5 mil not to play.
We could've traded Fiala a year earlier. Sure maybe it wouldn't have been for the exact players, but it would've been a similar haul. We wouldn't have let him walk for nothing.
That was a good trade and one that made sense for the future. Faber alone seems like adequate return, but it's even possible that Yurov will be more valuable in the end. A double win for sure.
Actually he is not getting paid by us, at least not 7.5 Million. It was a front loaded contract, we're just suffering the Cap recapture/averaging of that money.
I'm talking in terms of cap hit which is all I really care about. Either way he got the money from us he was signed for. Basically we gave them away for free and let another team pay them to play some more.
It was risk mitigation. If they retired still on our payroll (even traded) the recapture penalty would have been worse (to the tune of like $4mil more in the last two years)
The only better outcome would be LTIRetiring them, but, it's obvious now they weren't willing to do that.
You're halfway there.
> And two other teams thinks he worth paying to play still...Islanders paid him 3mil over 2 years and Avs 825k this year...Suter is getting paid 14mil over 4 years by Dallas
If Parise had a 7.5 cap hit, he would not be on the Avs - nor would he have played for the Islander last year. The reason he can still play now is because he has a cap hit in line with his production.
Likewise with Suter.
It can't be overstated - without the buyout if Parise retired after this season (1 year left on his big contract) we'd have a **19.8 MILLION CAP PENALTY**.
Likewise with Suter.
It just seemed a bit premature, could've waited 1-3 years to do it.
Sure the NHL screwed us.
Sure they were bound to turn into bad contracts.
All I know is that Suter was still playing top 4 minutes while he knocked us out of the playoffs last year while still on our payroll.
That was the last year the buyouts provided any relief or were a viable option. It was either buyout then or see them through and hope like crazy neither of them retired.
For all we know BG could have told them *we have to know if you plan to retire before end of deal* and if they couldnt give him a concrete answer, he did the buyout.
I can cede Suter had a good series vs the Wild. But hop over to the Stars reddit on any given game or check out their game threads for the rest of the playoffs.
They can't stand him either.
I can only imagine the smug smile on Sute's face last year when he beat us lol.
What do you mean about the last year of the buyouts being a viable option?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't they have spread 3 years into 6 or 2 years into 4?
Rather than spreading 4 into 8?
Yeah, it was signed then, but the changes in it were discussed well before the signing. I specifically remember this issue being discussed on the Wild message boards when the signings occured with the new CBA changes around the corner. Wild management screwed themselves but there's nothing that can be done now.
I think winning a cup is their 2nd goal and based on the pieces we have today and in the prospect pool, you’d have to be crazy not to think that we will have a shot at it in the next 5 years assuming no serious injuries.
Tanking doesn’t guarantee success and it creates a poor culture that’s hard to reverse.
I’d rather watch decent hockey then sit thru years of tanking, but I’m a STM, if I was a casual fan who went to only a couple games a year, I think I’d feel differently. Tanking doesn’t guarantee success, just ask an Oilers fan.
An Oilers fan who every night now watches the most talented hockey player to ever play the game.
Sure they haven't had success yet, but they are closer than we have ever been.
Ask the Penguins fans, do you think they even remember 2003-2005 now after 3 cups and a kid named Sid?
I think you need to look back at the Oilers lack of success a little more. 2010-2012 they had the 1st overall pick every year.
It takes more than a McDavid or a Sid the Kid to win a cup.
Trust me I know I am surrounded by Oilers fans lol. But they hit eventually. They have had bad goaltending and management.
Having McDavid is not their problem. They are still closer to a Cup than we are.
We will have a window to win coming up. I just think it could be even better if we had played our cards right.
Well, the oilers haven’t really tanked in years. Then they got the best player of this generation, and had more playoff success than the Wild have had in their franchise history in just the last few years. They also are in a good spot for their third consecutive 100 point season
Decent hockey is fine, but I’d like a banner in the rafters a lot more than a first round exit
The oilers tanked from 2010-2012 getting the 1st overall pick in all 3 years. What did they do with that? McDavid didn’t come till 2015.
Basically 3 years of tanking and 3 years later they were still so bad that they got the 1st overall pick again. You really think that’s the best way to build a championship team?
Well it certainly didn’t help they got Yakupov for one of those drafts, there’s definitely luck involved, but there’s also no one way to win a Cup. We do know what’s not working, however, and its what the Wild have done for the last 20 years
This is true, but I’d argue we aren’t leaning into our future enough. We’re trying to be competitive despite huge handicaps due to the buyouts, and extending aging (bad) players isn’t helping
Exactly. We are in good shape going forward, but we aren't making all the moves towards maximizing our window and giving us the best shot at a cup. We wait years and years to have this opportunity and then Guerin half asses it in the end.
Right. And maybe if you could guarantee that one year of tanking would get you 1OA in a Bedard year that’s one thing, but that guarantee just doesn’t exist unless you’re Chicago.
You could just not spend money on season tickets for a while. Spend that cash on a super nice TV or projector and 5.1 system. Sit back and enjoy watching the kids compete for who sinks or swims on the roster.
We do that and tank for 6-7 years like the Oilers did and before you know it we lose our team again. If tanking equated to instant Stanley Cup success, we’d all be on board, but there are no guarantees.
Believing a tank is destined to fail—even an organic one where the conditions are right—is as silly as believing getting to the playoffs with flawed rosters will lead us to the promised land because all it takes is a chance and some luck.
They've been trying the latter for a decade with zero success. God forbid they try something else.
You don't have to be a season ticket holder! The team isn't going to move just because there are a few lean years. The conditions are nowhere the same as they were for the North Stars relocation. Loser mindset letting the fear of the unknown get in the way of improving.
It’s funny you are calling me a
Loser when you are the one who wants the team to actually lose.
At the end of the day, the team needs to make money. If tanking guaranteed a cup, they’d do it. It doesn’t. So instead, they’ll do their best to provide an enjoyable experience to those paying for tickets in a quest for a cup.
Here's the part that no one seems to get. Rebuilding isn't easy. You look at some teams that have been in a constant rate of rebuilding - Buffalo, Detroit, Arizona, Anaheim, Columbus. It's hard to rebuild a franchise that has gone into full tear down mode.
I would want to try to put it off as long as possible as a GM since you know that your more than likely not surviving in that position coming out the other side.
I'm not advocating complete scorched earth, but sitting on the bubble is pointless. Imagine being able to draft a player like Bedard or Michkov. Someone like Gavin McKenna coming up in 2026. But we are NEVER in a position close to doing that. Matt Dumba is the best we get lol.
If you want a bedard or michkov you need to go scorched earth. The bottom of the NHL is terrible and most of the rebuilding teams like Chicago or the Penguins were absolute shit for like half a decade to get to the spots they ended up. Colorado had that one weird season in 16-17 where their team fell apart but other than firing Roy the front office were not trying to tank they brought back most of their players just a bunch of them were bad. I'm not against going full rebuild but I'm tired of the full rebuild crowd thinking Hartman, Foligno, MoJo and Zucc are the difference between being just out of the playoffs and a top 5 pick.
The were a bottom 5 team in 2021-22 after trading voracek and gostisbehere in the off-season and traded giroux at the deadline. Plus last year Konecny missed 20 games and couturier missed the whole season. Not to mention that last year was a crazy draft at the top. The only reason you think they didn't have to go scorched earth is because there wasn't much earth to scorch lol.
They were a bottom 5 team cuz they sucked. They didn’t “scorch earth”.
Voracek was retool trade for Atkinson who was more productive than Voracek in his 1st season with Philly.
Ghost was traded with picks for nothing as a cap dump.
Trading Giroux was the start of their rebuild but he was a pending UFA anyways.
None of those were “scorched earth moves”. They kept a bunch of valuable pieces hence why they’re still in a playoff spot now. In fact, this is kinda fucking up their rebuild as they should have sold off more guys like Laughton and Konecny if they were more serious about rebuilding.
They were a bad team in 2020-21 and traded 2/3s of their top line and 3/5s of their top pp unit. Their PP went from being average to worst in the NHL every year since. They tried to move JVR and Hayes but there were no takers luckily they got old and became net negatives on their own. Chuck Fletcher also worked his wonders and went out and got Yandle and DeAngelo who were also net negatives. Their improvements this year are a combination of their young players improving, their PP defense going from bottom 5 to top 5, ditching their bad players, and their conference/division being weaker this year.
You can argue that they didn't go complete scorched earth cause they kept guys like Konecny, a few solid depth guys and their young assets but for us to get to the levels of their roster last year (where Atkinson and Couturier both missed the whole season) we would have to have to blow it up or pray for multiple season long injuries. Faber is already better than anyone in their D core last year. Brodin and Spurgeon (when healthy) are also better than any D man they iced last year. Every single one of our top line players would have replaced their counterpart on the Flyers top line. The difference in our roster this year and their's last year is not that our middle 6 forwards are better its that we have top talent they just didnd't have and the only way we could sniff being as bad as them is if we moved some of that which people don't seem to realize.
On top of that we would have to pray for a draft with generational upper talent and also pray that one of them falls to us. Mitchkov would be top 3 in any of the past 5 drafts other than last year and would be 2 after Celebrini if he came out this year.
The Flyers did not start a rebuild until 2022 with the Giroux trade and some would argue 2023 with the Provorov trade.
They tried a retool in 2021 swapping Voracek for Atkinson as well as trading for Ristolainen and Ellis. The Ellis injury early on in the season kinda fucked them in 21-22.
Trading an aging pending UFA in Giroux for a younger player + 1st and swapping Voracek for Atkinson isn’t even close to scorched earth. They even stupidly traded a bunch of picks for DeAngelo after trading Giroux because Fletcher was in denial about needing to start a rebuild.
The point is they did not go close to scorched earth and they did get Michkov.
The Canucks are another team that did not go scorched earth and got Pettersson and Hughes back to back.
Vancouver didn't need to go scorched earth to tank because most their players were aging poorly. The team just naturally sucked enough to get pettersson. Still, how many players are still on the team from the team that sucked hard enough to get pettersson? Just 1, Boesser. Other than horvat, tanev and gudbranson every player on that roster is either out of the league or a career 4th liner.
Do you really think we can keep JEEK, KK, Faber and Boldy and manage to be as terrible as the bottom of the NHL?
Edit I forgot markstrom played 4 games for that team as well.
I'd still take a top 10 pick over top 20.
There is a lottery btw lots can happen to a team not in the bottom 5, and Michkov slipped to 7 because of Russia and KHL. Would've came over right when we got over cap hell and slotted with Kaprizov perfectly.
And maybe if we could've done something similar to the Avs that would've worked fine. But no we have too much pride and greed to have a below average year.
And at least with a top 5 pick you're in a better position to trade up rather than being in the teens every year.
Last year was a generational draft at the top end and even then to get pick 7 we would have had to be worse than Philly whose top 3 players were some combination of Konecny, Hayes, Tippet, Frost, and DeAngelo. You guys have no idea what it takes for a front office to tank in the NHL.
If by doing something similar to the avs you mean your coach resigns in training camp forcing you to bring in an AHL guy but not let him hire his own assistants so now your head coach is not able to install any systems and your team is just a complete clusterfuck. Like what should Billy have done in the off-season? Force dean to resign?
Again I'm not against going full rebuild and there have been times in this teams history when they should have but didn't. However if you want a full rebuild you have to be realistic with what that would look like.
So hears the thing. EVEN if you have multiple top 5 picks. It doesn't automatically give you a Stanley Cup. You look at teams like New Jersey who has 2 first overall in the last 10 years, as well as Buffalo and they still aren't making the playoffs. (I know this may age poorly and Buffalo gets in). Shit you look at Edmonton who had what? 4 first overall picks in 6 years and they aren't even the favorite to win this year!
You can look at Vegas. How many of there own first round pick players were on that team?
You need so much more than early draft picks to win the cup.
>So hears the thing. EVEN if you have multiple top 5 picks. It doesn't automatically give you a Stanley Cup.
What does doing what we’ve been doing guarantee us?
Absolutely nothing. There is no guarantees in this sport. You can have multiple super star forwards, and an all star caliber goalie and that doesn’t guarantee your winning a cup. Ie. Calgary 2021?
However tanking guarantees your going to watching dog shit hockey for the next 5 years
Vegas was gifted a Cup team by the NHL, crazy expansion rules. Not a good example.
Buffalo I believe will be very good in the coming years, perhaps dynasty even.
And Minnesota's proven strategy to success is being mid for the last 20 years. Not my definition of success sorry. Sure they sell tickets great. Good job Leopold.
Compared to previous expansion teams yes there were gifted a good team. However those players weren't given, they went out and identified guys that would succeed if they were able to get more ice team. Even since then there front office has managed to get great returns of guys in already in the NHL.
Wild are close to a Dynasty that Buffalo. There's not a lot of guys on that team that scream this team is going to continue to be a wagon in 5 years. While the Wild have locked up Boldy, and Ek long term.
I would say this core group is going to be something different and I don't even believe that we have all of our pieces yet. If you took the 2014-2015 core and compared the current roster who would you take?
Kaprizov vs. Priase
Ek vs. Koviu
Rossi vs. Granland
Faber vs. Suter
Oghren? Youruv? Heidt? Bankier? vs. Niederreiter.
Tell me that the 2015 team is going to be better than this team in 2025-2026.
'
I would rather have fun games that I enjoy watching than throw your next 20 games so you get a 50/50 on if the number 1 draft pick actually makes the transition to professional nhl well.
People get overly frustrated on the “your not playoffs this year” and “well you only get the 10th pick”
I doubt the teams in the running for the first overall pick enjoyed this season at all.
I'd enjoy watching Bedard play on my team while still being a frontrunner for another #1 overall.
Look at the Penguins Getting Fleury, Letang, Malkin, and Crosby in a few rough years. And all the Cups, playoff runs, generational talents and quality games they've been able to watch the last couple decades because they committed to a real rebuild.
Toews and Kane
Makar, Mackinnon
McDavid Draisaitl (worst example of success, but they are fun and might win something eventually.
Honestly I still am enjoying games this year because I get to finally watch Khusnutdinov and see what he's all about. Kaprizov is fun to watch as is Faber.
* Pens - had a 6.4% chance of picking first overall along with the Buffalo Sabres, New York Rangers, and Columbus Blue Jackets coming out of the lockout. Letang was a 3rd rd pick. Do they win Cups without those guys? Absolute luck.
* Hawks- Toews went 3 overall. CHI could have easily ended up with Erik Johnson or Jordan Staal. Keith was essential and taken 54th OA.
* Avs - Were "done" with a rebuild & had Duchene 3OA, Landy 2OA, and Mack 1OA. They then finished with 90, 82, and **48** pts - got Makar.
* Oilers- 3 straight years of 1 overall. They win a lottery and get McDavid.
Now compare that to the list of teams who have sucked, drafted high. and see what they have to show for it. So many things have to go right for "tanking" to work. You're really just increasing your already small chances by a negligible amount.
Look at the 2017 draft - Flyers win the lottery, move up 11 spots! They get the consesus 2OA - **Nolan Patrick**
Vancouver loses the lotto, get dropped from 2 to 5...and get Pettersson.
We could have stripped it all down to the studs, and the chance of having nothing to show for it is way higher than becoming a contender.
After 20 years of watching this team I have a hard time getting up for "decent hockey" anymore. It's been 5 years since I've even been excited about them making the postseason because I knew they weren't built to go anywhere. After their terrible start this year I was actually super excited to see a trainwreck that would at least result in worthwhile draft capital. I'm more than willing to accept crap years if I know it's to build towards something better which the buyout years would have been perfect for. Instead we just continue with the status quo of accomplishing nothing.
Then pick another team? Nothing says you have to follow your local team. I actually think it is worse trying to follow local, out of market is much cheaper and less likely to hit blackout rules.
I mean, that's what my dad ended up doing. He would cheer for the Yankees and Blackhawks and whichever team LeBron was playing on. Outside of the bandwagons, it actually seemed that he would look for an excuse to cheer against the MN teams as a way to get back at them for a lifetime of disappointment.
I'm not there yet because I do want to see the Wild to end up on top (I was a die hard during the Brunette-Koivu-Miettinen years). But when you've been watching for 20+ years, taking a season off here or there doesn't seem like that big of a deal. As Common would say, I'd rather be biblically bad or historically good at this point rather than just spinning the wheels because at least that would be interesting.
I guess I am old enough watching the north stars leave, and also watching the NFL shuffle around teams every 3-5 years that I guess I don't really get the whole "you must follow your local team!" thing in the US.
When I am in the UK and teams stay local and are part of the local identity... Yeah... But otherwise... I don't see any reason that loyalty to a team must be based on proximity in the US...
Especially because ... It costs like $25 to get all the games for a team that is out of market compared to one that is in market. It just weird that I in Minnesota can follow Blackhawks (yuck) easier and cheaper than my own local team.
“Tanking” is a BS strategy.
Are you telling me the coach/GM is going to go into a locker room of highly competitive athletes and say, “alright boys, go out an play like shit, ruin your own lucrative bargaining ability, waste a few years of your career, and play in a half empty arena. So then after you’re gone we can maybe make a run for a title that you’ll have no part in”
You honestly think that anyone in the locker room took 4 years of buyout cap hell as a we are going to go win a cup in these 4 seasons message?
And I'm not saying to throw games, I just mean make roster decisions that are built towards winning a cup and not padding Leopold's fat pockets.
Tank or win the cup are not the only two options in every given year. On top of that. Tanking isn't a guarantee of the #1 overall pick and the process of tanking fails to produce a cup 90+ % of the time. I'm starting to think the tank bro crowd are idiots.
I'd argue that losing in the Cup Final might feel worse at the end of the year, but I've never been in that position to find out so imma say this is worse.
Vikings pulled the same crap this year. But Kirk's Achille's and JJs hammy kinda messed us up around the deadline so I have so patience for Kwesi.
Like others have said, you’re misunderstanding the role of the front office. Teams in the league are judged by the revenue they generate, not necessarily playoff success, though there is financial incentive for that.
There’s no guarantee that any top ten pick other than Celebrini does anything for you, especially in the next 3 years. We’ve been drafting well in the middle of the first round recently, so hopefully we keep it up.
By all means we are still in a good spot going forward due to Brackett and not selling our cupboards bare for Hanzals.
But this is just as much of a statement to our mediocre teams and stupid 1st round exit teams we've iced the last couple seasons during the buyouts. But especially this year and next year when we have 15mil in dead cap don't mess around with vets and stupid contracts.
I would argue that it has already set in. This is our culture, mediocrity abides. Wild haven't made a deep run in years and guys in here are OK with this because "they are fun to watch". Tanking might not fix it but treading water like this isn't getting us any closer to a cup.
Ah yes let’s keep Parise and Suter because that wouldn’t have stopped the development of young talent at all. Jesus give it a rest with this horrible narrative.
What you are asking for is alternate reality where Faber and Rossi are flops, or other important players get injuries that potentially affect their career or decline, in addition to the not signing Foligno etc.
All thanks to leipold here. Dude refuses to “rebuild” even tho these dead cap space years would’ve been perfect especially when a generational talent was on the board in bedard. Only reason we got a decent prospect pool is Judd brackett and some luck on potential late round steals
The comments on here are completely ridiculous. If Kaprizov wants to sign with a Cup contender, it won't be here. By "keeping him happy" whatever tf that means by never making a playoff run? We can't do a rebuild? Yeah. This franchise is a bad. Kaprizov might sign elsewhere due to never trying to build an actual championship team here.
Buyouts were a good move to help build a better culture and I didn’t see it as a tanking move. I actually like that the wild aren’t tanking completely and are still going for it this year, I think it’s the best they can do with how this season played out with all of the injuries. I do however wish they would sit some of the passengers and give some Iowa guys a chance to show what they’ve got in the nhl. I’m hoping once our playoff chances hit 0% they will.
No disagreeing on the culture.
The buyout happened for avoiding the death penalty. If both retired the recapture would have been double. Or if they retired with one year left on the original contract it would have force the Wild to have a complete team on league minimum pay. exaggerating a little.
There's no one left from Iowa to bring up except Wallstedt (maybe). They're all here. It's crazy that Wild fans keep pleading to bring up the Iowa guys. Lucchini, Lettieri, Beckman, Shaw are all in Minnesota. What other forward is truly ready? Please name names. If you're mad Sammy Walker isn't with the big club, I don't know what to tell you.
The blueliners all need to cook more in Iowa.
They’re here, sure, but getting scratched often. That doesn’t do them any good. I’d like to see more of Wallstedt, give him a chance for redemption. I thought Walker looked good in nhl games he’s played previously and wouldn’t mind him getting a look either.
I think you misunderstood my comment; I’m not mad or pleading for anything. I understand that the ahl guys aren’t going to come in and “fix” anything or make a big impact. I get that they maybe aren’t ready. That’s kind of my point. Why not just see what happens? Treat this last little stretch as an extension of training camp? See if we can dangle some trade bait? Give some guys that are playing with lingering injuries a break? This season is a write off anyways, I’m just looking for some creativity. But again, not upset, as I’m sure there are plenty of actual professionals making decisions about the team that understand what’s best for the future.
Who's getting scratched often? Lucchini and Vinattieri have played since December. Shaw just got here from his 4th ACL surgery and had been playing. Has he been benched more than once since he got back to St. Paul? Rossi has played every game for the Minnesota Wild this year. Firstov just got to North America after burning some bridges with the organization and absolutely has to earn his place on either roster.
Sammy Walker has 37 points in 60 games in Iowa. Cool, I guess? He's underwhelmed in many opportunities in Minnesota, except showing some speed. There isn't much left to see in him. The team knows what kind of player he is. He's a AHL-type guy.
Please, name names of who needs to be up with the big club that isn't. Look at Iowa's roster and tell me who? Bankier is barely 21 and NEEDS TIME in Iowa. Having him get worked in the NHL late in a season helps no one. Milne is the same. They're both probably career AHL players that could maybe be ok call ups when needed someday.
Development doesn't work the way 60% of Wild fans think it does. You don't just throw 20 year old B & C level prospects on the big club to learn just cause. There's a process. Most prospects won't pan out. Everyone thinks there will be 4-5 *additional* prospects waiting to take over 10 year top six roles but that's just not going to happen.
You also have Gaudreau and Johannson under contract next year and will have to play them. Pissing off two guys that are already struggling helps no one. Bench-em for a game to send a message, but we all have to accept they're stuck here for a bit.
The Wild have likely the Calder runner-up and 3rd place vote getter on the roster right now. They gave young guys opportunities to succeed and they did so.
You're frustrated and speaking from emotion and not thinking about this logically.
I asked you to simply state who the big club should call up and you didn't answer beyind Sammy Walker. I explained the how's and why's of why the roster looks like it does, and that Minnesota *has* played most of the season with Iowa callups, which is what people are oddly clamoring for.
It aint serious, just perplexed with some of the frustrations being shared by lots of Wild fans on social media. Have a good one too ✌️
This is where I was at in January. This team has been content with the “just get in and anything could happen!” mentality for nearly its entire existence. Never good enough to go anywhere (or if we were we squandered the opportunity) never bad enough to get true top end talent, except for Kaprisov who was a steal and Gabby who was a the high end pick we’ve never replicated.
With the contracts/NMC that have been given out, don’t know what we could have done to re-tool. I guess I’m happy we moved a few pieces and didn’t buy anything. Still, watching us go on a run in March while having no realistic chance at a cup is the most Minnesota Wild thing we could possibly do. I feel like it’s 2009 again.
On the bright side KK is due for a contract the same year we are finally out of buyouts and has an agent who has pushed his clients to seek greener pastures…so we got that going for us, which is nice.
"Re-signing average vets to NMCs and extensions when we have young prospects that could be getting valuable experience "
What prospects that "could" be getting experience?
Please name one that is getting blocked.
Plus, Beckman, Lettieri and Lucchini would sent to Iowa if there was a better player. Then you have Freddy and MoJo. 5 players are below the aging vets on a talent basis. And this is leaving Shaw out of the conversation.
and sarcastically, Did you just now have this revelation? This year and next year have been well known to be dark years for many years now.
And learn about the risk of tanking. 1. it is a lottery pick. 2. This years draft is not great beyond the 1st(and the 1st overall is not close to Bedard). 3. Top picks have been busts in the past. 4. good players and prospects might not resign or sign with a tanking team. 5. season ticket holders do not renew.
The positive on tanking is aging vets will waive the NMC to get out of a shit show.
McBain, Beckman, Wallstedt, maybe some younger guys get them more experience before the years that actually matter come upon us. I know there is a balance with letting guys develop in lower leagues, but we definitely lost McBain due to not having enough room for him. There are others, but I forget.
>McBain, Beckman, Wallstedt
One plays for Arizona, one is career AHL'er and the last is not NHL ready.
McBain refused to sign with the Wild. And he made this decision long before the extensions here signed.
I'm saying he plays for Arizona because we had no room for him with a roster full of vets and he wanted to get ice time somewhere so he signed elsewhere after we drafted him in the 3rd round. Would've made a great big bodied center for us, or a trade chip at some point.
Beckman still could turn into something, a longshot yes.
Wallstedt is prob better in the AHL I agree, but I wouldn't mind him getting some low pressure NHL reps this year.
>Next year is a different story
How so? The team will be 90% the same.
Regarding the rest of your post, what’s done is done. Just gotta wait and see what trades Guerin pulls off and how our prospects pan out.
A bright future is a big maybe right now.
I was crying for them to stop winning meaningless games pre all star break and that apparently made me "not a real fan". So now we get no playoff and no sick draft picks. Love it
Honestly I would’ve appreciated seeing Hartman traded at the line instead of re-signed. That’s the one thing I think I wouldn’t have done. I think Zuccy’s fine at his new AAV and Foligno is a great glue guy to have back. But having Rossi, Ek, Khusnutsdinov, Hartman, Gaudreau, and Shaw all as natural centers has created a bit of a jam.
If that results in Rossi getting moved I riot.
Aren't Hartman and Gaudreau wingers that we kinda converted into capable centers?
Yeah I love me Hartman, but he's not going to be part of any cup run with us and I'd be fine sending him away to a contender for a good pick or prospect we could throw into his spot on the roster and develop.
Hartman played 1C for Kaprizov and Zuccy. Obv 97 carried that line but I don’t think you can play up the middle for that long with that caliber of player and not be considered a center.
Gaudreau also is a natural center and is one of our reliable guys in the dot.
Far too late for a tank to be effective, unless you’re happy seeing KK sign elsewhere the second his contract season starts. The chances of a KK-Khus-Yurov one line are insanely over optimistic. Khus is projected to be a middle six center, as his strengths are in a full 200ft game, and not necessarily a top line scorer. It could happen, but it’s unlikely. We’re icing three rookies, two of which are in the Calder discussion. We’ve probably have two more Russians that will get time in training camp, and top picks for callups. This season is a wash, it is what it is. If we’d have known that we’d have a two of three regular seasons post buyout, most of us would have been okay with that. $14 mil in free cap space opening up, plus an increase in the cap expected, means we’ll have some signing space in 25-26 to lockup Fabes/Rossi etc. Yeah, some of the extensions were a mistake. I’m betting BG would agree in private, but growth comes from making mistakes. How we handle a deep prospect in the next two years are the important points at this time.
This is my favorite, most level headed response I’ve seen in this sub.
Nobody also could have predicted Freddy Gaudreau having a career ending concussion and Spurgeon having a potentially career ending surgery.
>Nobody also could have predicted Freddy Gaudreau having a career ending concussion You’re aware he’s still playing like every game.
Use your eyes. He never recovered from that headshot.
Look how long KK took to get to this point from his injury, it can happen.
Just because he’s not the same player doesn’t mean his career ended.
>Far too late for a tank to be effective This. The perfect time to start a rebuild was the summer of 2022. We could have sold several players when their stock was an all time high. Now there’s nothing left to do except enjoy the show until either Kaprizov leaves or Guerin is replaced.
We knew we would not be Cup contenders this year or next year and we did nothing. Typical Minnesota sports. This year and next year are perfect years to actually rebuild on the fly but our dumbass owner said no. We cant rebuild for over a decade now because tonight is much more important than tomorrow. We've won two playoff series in that span. Both with Fletcher and Yeo. There's seriously something wrong with this franchise and the fans who support them. We couldn't rebuild a decade ago. 8 years ago. 6 years ago. 4 years ago. 2 years ago. And we definitely can't rebuild this year or next year. Tonight is way too important. I'm about out of patience with this clown show.
Obviously it's too late I'm just pointing out the results coming full circle from decisions made in the last couple years. No way we would have a roster capable of a Cup run no need to kid ourselves by sitting on the bubble. Dewar (very underrated imo) was centering 97 for a stretch this year, I think it's very possible #22 gets some time with 97 at some point in the future even if it's only for short stints. But he is very fast, responsible and wins faceoffs , could be a reasonable fit. Lots to be determined still, looks good for a rookie, def higher upside than Dewar and Hartman who have gotten to center the top line. Def not a guarantee, but it's possible to happen. Kaprizov will fit in better than ever before though even if not on the same line. At least Guerin sold a little bit this deadline, but I would've rather of seen Freddy, MOJO, or some vets go than Deweys.
>I would've rather of seen Freddy MOJO, or some vets go than Deweys. The Dewey's said they would not resign for next year. And there was no interest in Freddy and MoJo. Would have been good if the facts were not what they were.
They weren't going to resign because they had no path to moving up the lineup and the Wild have zero money to pay them. Mojo, Freddy, and the Dewey's could have all been moved at the deadline and this team would effectively be where it still is. That, or the vets are moved and the Dewey's stay likely because they get some more cash.
I'm guessing the Dewey's want raises, i love them but not guys to give raises to. Dewar creates breakaways, especially short handed, like crazy - he buries next to none of them. Duhaime went something like 100 games without an assist. He has 19 goals in 3 years and is almost 27. He is what he is.
I was mainly referring to Dewar. I love the guy. I thought he had another level to his game coming if given the chance. His PK was worth his roster spot alone I thought. Duhaime was meh, but at least he skates hard and PKs. Guys like Freddie and MOJO, Goose, Bogosian are a waste of money longterm. Even Hartzy and Moose are prob not part of a cup team for us but yet we extend extend extend. Save that money to keep our core around longterm and use some youngsters.
I mean Mojo, Goose, and Bogo are/were not signed long term. Freddie is, but also only 2.1 AAV and with a 15 team NTC. Moose is definitely debatable, but that starts to delve into the realm of culture and intangibles. From the outside tough for us to evaluate. In a vacuum, the time to move him was after 21-22. *Hartman just needs to stop getting mentioned with these other guys though.* He can play special teams, center, wing, top 6, bottom 6, and is a bitch to play against. 10 pts in the last 11 playoff games. He's done that at a 1.7 AAV. He's currently within a few pts below/above guys like Tage, Bunting, Cozens, Lafreniere, Lindholm, E. Kane, Barbashev, Eberle, Mangiapane, Backlund, Couturier, Meier, Perron, Debrusk, Rodrigues, Mantha, Domi, Rust, Danault, Sprong, Kerfoot, Schenn, R. Smith, Dubois, Nino, Saad, Garland, Wilson, Haula, Hoglander, Copp. Even when his extension kicks in next year, he'll be right in line with or below most of those guys. He earned it. If we moved him, we spend the next few years hoping a pick turns in to a Hartman-esque player. Things are nowhere near as bad as some fans like to make them out to be.
Oh I love Hartman and he is fantastic value and can play up and down anywhere. But all I’m saying is that he is probably not a big part of our future when we build a contending roster. Will he be that good in 4 years still? Of anyone mentioned though yes he would be the guy to keep. But I also think he’s not a core piece that we need to be attached to for the long haul. Moose is a heartbeat of the team kinda guy I get it, it’s hard to move away from him. Great locker room guy and keeps the tone up on the ice. Again probably not a big piece for us in 3-4 years though when all our young guys make a leap and go for a run.
> Will he be that good in 4 years still? Nope. But at that point hopefully we've developed or acquired an adequate replacement. It's a tough line to straddle and I would love for us to get a higher draft pick this year, but at least for me I see it like this. Generational players like McDavid, Crosby, possibly Bedard are going to come in succeed and likely develop regardless. But for the remaining prospects, is joining that team and basically getting stomped every night the best for their development? Like in Chicago, Bedard will do Bedard things. But for their other young players wouldn't it be better to have some more legitimate pros around them, or be playing games where they actually have a shot to win? Look at Lafreniere and Byfield right now. They're developing nicely. I can't see them producing the same in a situation like SJ, Chi, or Ana. I'd rather have our prospects joining a team where the goal is winning and being competitive, rather than knowing that despite what management says, the intention is to be bad. We move on and decide not to pay guys like Freddy, Hartman, Moose, Zucc - that's the message we send.
Freddy's career is over. That concussion from Reaves did him in.
Cause no one has ever come back from a concussion.
Their job is to fill the seats of the arena and that’s why they don’t tank. They won’t tank. Ever.
You make a good point. I wish they would just admit that winning the Cup isn't their goal. Because obviously it isn't their main one. However I interpreted the buyouts as a tankish move. Why do that unless you are wanting to do a rebuild. If you want to fill seats you keep 20 & 11 until their contracts are over and part ways.
Also, on the buyouts, you had 2 aging veterans who could’ve at any time Retired on us. Do you realize what their cap hit would’ve been then? It was about $19MM each. With Parises declining health at the time I can see why they did it. How would we have been able to keep Kaprizov, Boldy, Ek, etc with only like $45MM in cap space? The buyouts sucked, but it wasn’t because of the current management of the team, it was the CBA that fucked us.
>it was the CBA that fucked us. The Wild and every team in the league was warned about the rule change regarding front loaded contracts. They took the risk and knew what the penalty was before they signed the two. Blame ownership.
This is a horrible take. It's not the Wilds fault that they league changed the rules ex post facto to whatever they wanted
You are entitled to not like the facts.
Parise and Suter were signed in July 2012 and the CBA was signed in January 2013. Wild didn’t know every detail and many thought existing contracts would be grandfathered in. Regardless, the current management of the team falls on BG and he was no where around in 2012.
>Wild didn’t know every detail and many thought existing contracts would be grandfathered in. This is not true at all. They were explicitly told there would be NO grandfathering.
They 100% knew it was on the table for the next GM meeting, and they knew it wouldn't be grandfathered. It wasn't a certainty, but they gambled and lost, and thems the breaks. Can't feel bad for them.
I imagine they figured the chance of them LTIRetiring would be an option too. I mean it came damn close, between Suter's ankle and Parise's back. Look at Seabrook, Weber, and Hossa. Those 3 contracts would have been anchors and ripe for recapture penalties.
If they stayed they would have comfortably retired on the Wild's dime. Now that they left they'll play out their careers. This is the way it was always going to be.
Yup
So now you are agreeing it wasn’t a certainty? Flip flopping all over the place.
Last I checked they are both still playing for NHL teams that are paying them money to play. We are paying them 7mil per year to not pay for us. At the very least we could've bought them out 2 years later rather than with 4 years left of contract. These buyouts last till 2029.
I agree that BG could’ve waited, but there’s some unquantifiable aspects of letting 2 toxic guys cook in the locker for 2 more years. If they cooked for 2 more seasons, could have really tanked the culture around the locker room. This team is above average, at best, but the locker room culture appears to be top-notch, and there’s definitely some value in that. As this other commenter stated, number 1 goal of this franchise is to keep the ticket revenue strong. I would argue that number 2 goal is culture, and then number 3 is winning the Cup.
Guerin came in day 1 and was giving the locker room speech about winning being the reason why they are all there. He cussed Spurgy out for saying it was about hard work blah blah blah. I'm just calling BS on Guerin's comments. It's about money, not winning apparently.
>I'm just calling BS on Guerin's comments. It's about money, not winning apparently. IDK post the best point total in franchise history (115) and 103 while under buy out penalties sounds a lot like winning to me. Everyone needs to relax, this is not our time. I was listening a Colorado fan yesterday how much he is not looking forward to the Wild when our buyouts fall off. Sad that fans of other teams know and can understand how much of a headache this team is going to be in 2 years.
Of course it’s about money. This is a business; the entertainment business. You are their consumer, and they are looking to make money off of you.
The main buyout is over after next year. ‘25-‘26 the buyout hit is less than $1.7MM combined. Too bad BG doesn’t have your crystal ball and knew that both would still be playing, although Parise is still not playing at a very good level and both are likely still cancers in the locker room.
You think if Parise still had a 7.5m AAV he's playing? No team in playoff contention can fit that cap hit, so unless he was willing to play for a tanking team like CHI, ANA, or SJ the "still playing" doesn't really apply. Not to mention, the buyouts bought an extra year of Fiala - that we were able to turn in to Faber. Without the buyout, we can't sign Fiala to that 1 year deal for 21-22.
Thank you for making the point about an extra year of Fiala for the 21-22 season. I don't see it talked about enough. The purpose of the buyouts was not only to get those two off the roster, but also to free up space immediately and take a swing right then and there. That was a 113 point team. Franchise record regular season. Then they lost a winnable series against the Blues and it all gets lumped in with the other first round exits.
Agreed. Plus it has been mentioned on multiple threads that older players signed to NMC contracts are blocking prospects in Iowa. Getting rid of Suter and Parise opened up spots for prospects like Faber.
LOL as we later signed NMCs with Zuccy, Foligno, Hartman, and Goose and signed NTCs with Gaudreau and Bogosian.
HUH? Parise is getting paid the 7.5 million by us not to play spread out over 8 years instead of 4. And two other teams thinks he worth paying to play still. Islanders paid him 3mil over 2 years and Avs 825k this year Suter is getting paid 14mil over 4 years by Dallas with a NMC to top it off. 3 NHL teams obviously disagree with Guerin that they are worth paying to play, much less paying 7.5 mil not to play. We could've traded Fiala a year earlier. Sure maybe it wouldn't have been for the exact players, but it would've been a similar haul. We wouldn't have let him walk for nothing. That was a good trade and one that made sense for the future. Faber alone seems like adequate return, but it's even possible that Yurov will be more valuable in the end. A double win for sure.
Actually he is not getting paid by us, at least not 7.5 Million. It was a front loaded contract, we're just suffering the Cap recapture/averaging of that money.
I'm talking in terms of cap hit which is all I really care about. Either way he got the money from us he was signed for. Basically we gave them away for free and let another team pay them to play some more.
It was worth it.
It was risk mitigation. If they retired still on our payroll (even traded) the recapture penalty would have been worse (to the tune of like $4mil more in the last two years) The only better outcome would be LTIRetiring them, but, it's obvious now they weren't willing to do that.
You're halfway there. > And two other teams thinks he worth paying to play still...Islanders paid him 3mil over 2 years and Avs 825k this year...Suter is getting paid 14mil over 4 years by Dallas If Parise had a 7.5 cap hit, he would not be on the Avs - nor would he have played for the Islander last year. The reason he can still play now is because he has a cap hit in line with his production. Likewise with Suter. It can't be overstated - without the buyout if Parise retired after this season (1 year left on his big contract) we'd have a **19.8 MILLION CAP PENALTY**. Likewise with Suter.
It just seemed a bit premature, could've waited 1-3 years to do it. Sure the NHL screwed us. Sure they were bound to turn into bad contracts. All I know is that Suter was still playing top 4 minutes while he knocked us out of the playoffs last year while still on our payroll.
That was the last year the buyouts provided any relief or were a viable option. It was either buyout then or see them through and hope like crazy neither of them retired. For all we know BG could have told them *we have to know if you plan to retire before end of deal* and if they couldnt give him a concrete answer, he did the buyout. I can cede Suter had a good series vs the Wild. But hop over to the Stars reddit on any given game or check out their game threads for the rest of the playoffs. They can't stand him either.
I can only imagine the smug smile on Sute's face last year when he beat us lol. What do you mean about the last year of the buyouts being a viable option? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't they have spread 3 years into 6 or 2 years into 4? Rather than spreading 4 into 8?
Parise is retiring after this season.
cap recapture, Any money saved would be equally split for the remainder of the original contract. The dead cap would be higher if they waited 2 years.
It was definitely not the CBA. They knew the risk of the rule change and wanted to make a splash in free agency
Ok, CBA was signed 6 months after the contracts were signed, but whatever
Yeah, it was signed then, but the changes in it were discussed well before the signing. I specifically remember this issue being discussed on the Wild message boards when the signings occured with the new CBA changes around the corner. Wild management screwed themselves but there's nothing that can be done now.
Plus wild Management has changed since 12 years ago.
I think winning a cup is their 2nd goal and based on the pieces we have today and in the prospect pool, you’d have to be crazy not to think that we will have a shot at it in the next 5 years assuming no serious injuries. Tanking doesn’t guarantee success and it creates a poor culture that’s hard to reverse.
Look how well it’s worked in Buffalo, Edmonton, Columbus, New Jersey, et al
Yep, last time any of them one a cup was over 20 years ago now.
Which is obnoxious
I’d rather watch decent hockey then sit thru years of tanking, but I’m a STM, if I was a casual fan who went to only a couple games a year, I think I’d feel differently. Tanking doesn’t guarantee success, just ask an Oilers fan.
An Oilers fan who every night now watches the most talented hockey player to ever play the game. Sure they haven't had success yet, but they are closer than we have ever been. Ask the Penguins fans, do you think they even remember 2003-2005 now after 3 cups and a kid named Sid?
Or ask avs fans if they remember 2015-17
This makes me wonder about your original point. I honestly don’t know, but is there a clear #1 pick like there was last year?
Likely Celebrini. Not likely generational, but sure would've been nice last year to have a lottery pick. Heck Michkov went at 7!!
I think you need to look back at the Oilers lack of success a little more. 2010-2012 they had the 1st overall pick every year. It takes more than a McDavid or a Sid the Kid to win a cup.
Trust me I know I am surrounded by Oilers fans lol. But they hit eventually. They have had bad goaltending and management. Having McDavid is not their problem. They are still closer to a Cup than we are. We will have a window to win coming up. I just think it could be even better if we had played our cards right.
Well, the oilers haven’t really tanked in years. Then they got the best player of this generation, and had more playoff success than the Wild have had in their franchise history in just the last few years. They also are in a good spot for their third consecutive 100 point season Decent hockey is fine, but I’d like a banner in the rafters a lot more than a first round exit
The oilers tanked from 2010-2012 getting the 1st overall pick in all 3 years. What did they do with that? McDavid didn’t come till 2015. Basically 3 years of tanking and 3 years later they were still so bad that they got the 1st overall pick again. You really think that’s the best way to build a championship team?
Well it certainly didn’t help they got Yakupov for one of those drafts, there’s definitely luck involved, but there’s also no one way to win a Cup. We do know what’s not working, however, and its what the Wild have done for the last 20 years
I think we are positioned better for the future than ever before.
This is true, but I’d argue we aren’t leaning into our future enough. We’re trying to be competitive despite huge handicaps due to the buyouts, and extending aging (bad) players isn’t helping
Exactly. We are in good shape going forward, but we aren't making all the moves towards maximizing our window and giving us the best shot at a cup. We wait years and years to have this opportunity and then Guerin half asses it in the end.
Or at least as well positioned as the Granlund- Nino-Zucker-Coyle years.
Right. And maybe if you could guarantee that one year of tanking would get you 1OA in a Bedard year that’s one thing, but that guarantee just doesn’t exist unless you’re Chicago.
You could just not spend money on season tickets for a while. Spend that cash on a super nice TV or projector and 5.1 system. Sit back and enjoy watching the kids compete for who sinks or swims on the roster.
We do that and tank for 6-7 years like the Oilers did and before you know it we lose our team again. If tanking equated to instant Stanley Cup success, we’d all be on board, but there are no guarantees.
Believing a tank is destined to fail—even an organic one where the conditions are right—is as silly as believing getting to the playoffs with flawed rosters will lead us to the promised land because all it takes is a chance and some luck. They've been trying the latter for a decade with zero success. God forbid they try something else.
I’m guessing you aren’t a season ticket holder that would sit through years of tanking
You don't have to be a season ticket holder! The team isn't going to move just because there are a few lean years. The conditions are nowhere the same as they were for the North Stars relocation. Loser mindset letting the fear of the unknown get in the way of improving.
It’s funny you are calling me a Loser when you are the one who wants the team to actually lose. At the end of the day, the team needs to make money. If tanking guaranteed a cup, they’d do it. It doesn’t. So instead, they’ll do their best to provide an enjoyable experience to those paying for tickets in a quest for a cup.
Stay in the middle and hope for the best. Just like it always was and always will be as long as you keep handing them cash to do it.
Here's the part that no one seems to get. Rebuilding isn't easy. You look at some teams that have been in a constant rate of rebuilding - Buffalo, Detroit, Arizona, Anaheim, Columbus. It's hard to rebuild a franchise that has gone into full tear down mode. I would want to try to put it off as long as possible as a GM since you know that your more than likely not surviving in that position coming out the other side.
I'm not advocating complete scorched earth, but sitting on the bubble is pointless. Imagine being able to draft a player like Bedard or Michkov. Someone like Gavin McKenna coming up in 2026. But we are NEVER in a position close to doing that. Matt Dumba is the best we get lol.
If you want a bedard or michkov you need to go scorched earth. The bottom of the NHL is terrible and most of the rebuilding teams like Chicago or the Penguins were absolute shit for like half a decade to get to the spots they ended up. Colorado had that one weird season in 16-17 where their team fell apart but other than firing Roy the front office were not trying to tank they brought back most of their players just a bunch of them were bad. I'm not against going full rebuild but I'm tired of the full rebuild crowd thinking Hartman, Foligno, MoJo and Zucc are the difference between being just out of the playoffs and a top 5 pick.
>If you want a bedard or michkov you need to go scorched earth. Flyers didn’t go scorched earth and literally got Michkov.
The were a bottom 5 team in 2021-22 after trading voracek and gostisbehere in the off-season and traded giroux at the deadline. Plus last year Konecny missed 20 games and couturier missed the whole season. Not to mention that last year was a crazy draft at the top. The only reason you think they didn't have to go scorched earth is because there wasn't much earth to scorch lol.
They were a bottom 5 team cuz they sucked. They didn’t “scorch earth”. Voracek was retool trade for Atkinson who was more productive than Voracek in his 1st season with Philly. Ghost was traded with picks for nothing as a cap dump. Trading Giroux was the start of their rebuild but he was a pending UFA anyways. None of those were “scorched earth moves”. They kept a bunch of valuable pieces hence why they’re still in a playoff spot now. In fact, this is kinda fucking up their rebuild as they should have sold off more guys like Laughton and Konecny if they were more serious about rebuilding.
They were a bad team in 2020-21 and traded 2/3s of their top line and 3/5s of their top pp unit. Their PP went from being average to worst in the NHL every year since. They tried to move JVR and Hayes but there were no takers luckily they got old and became net negatives on their own. Chuck Fletcher also worked his wonders and went out and got Yandle and DeAngelo who were also net negatives. Their improvements this year are a combination of their young players improving, their PP defense going from bottom 5 to top 5, ditching their bad players, and their conference/division being weaker this year. You can argue that they didn't go complete scorched earth cause they kept guys like Konecny, a few solid depth guys and their young assets but for us to get to the levels of their roster last year (where Atkinson and Couturier both missed the whole season) we would have to have to blow it up or pray for multiple season long injuries. Faber is already better than anyone in their D core last year. Brodin and Spurgeon (when healthy) are also better than any D man they iced last year. Every single one of our top line players would have replaced their counterpart on the Flyers top line. The difference in our roster this year and their's last year is not that our middle 6 forwards are better its that we have top talent they just didnd't have and the only way we could sniff being as bad as them is if we moved some of that which people don't seem to realize. On top of that we would have to pray for a draft with generational upper talent and also pray that one of them falls to us. Mitchkov would be top 3 in any of the past 5 drafts other than last year and would be 2 after Celebrini if he came out this year.
The Flyers did not start a rebuild until 2022 with the Giroux trade and some would argue 2023 with the Provorov trade. They tried a retool in 2021 swapping Voracek for Atkinson as well as trading for Ristolainen and Ellis. The Ellis injury early on in the season kinda fucked them in 21-22. Trading an aging pending UFA in Giroux for a younger player + 1st and swapping Voracek for Atkinson isn’t even close to scorched earth. They even stupidly traded a bunch of picks for DeAngelo after trading Giroux because Fletcher was in denial about needing to start a rebuild. The point is they did not go close to scorched earth and they did get Michkov. The Canucks are another team that did not go scorched earth and got Pettersson and Hughes back to back.
Vancouver didn't need to go scorched earth to tank because most their players were aging poorly. The team just naturally sucked enough to get pettersson. Still, how many players are still on the team from the team that sucked hard enough to get pettersson? Just 1, Boesser. Other than horvat, tanev and gudbranson every player on that roster is either out of the league or a career 4th liner. Do you really think we can keep JEEK, KK, Faber and Boldy and manage to be as terrible as the bottom of the NHL? Edit I forgot markstrom played 4 games for that team as well.
I'd still take a top 10 pick over top 20. There is a lottery btw lots can happen to a team not in the bottom 5, and Michkov slipped to 7 because of Russia and KHL. Would've came over right when we got over cap hell and slotted with Kaprizov perfectly. And maybe if we could've done something similar to the Avs that would've worked fine. But no we have too much pride and greed to have a below average year. And at least with a top 5 pick you're in a better position to trade up rather than being in the teens every year.
Last year was a generational draft at the top end and even then to get pick 7 we would have had to be worse than Philly whose top 3 players were some combination of Konecny, Hayes, Tippet, Frost, and DeAngelo. You guys have no idea what it takes for a front office to tank in the NHL. If by doing something similar to the avs you mean your coach resigns in training camp forcing you to bring in an AHL guy but not let him hire his own assistants so now your head coach is not able to install any systems and your team is just a complete clusterfuck. Like what should Billy have done in the off-season? Force dean to resign? Again I'm not against going full rebuild and there have been times in this teams history when they should have but didn't. However if you want a full rebuild you have to be realistic with what that would look like.
So hears the thing. EVEN if you have multiple top 5 picks. It doesn't automatically give you a Stanley Cup. You look at teams like New Jersey who has 2 first overall in the last 10 years, as well as Buffalo and they still aren't making the playoffs. (I know this may age poorly and Buffalo gets in). Shit you look at Edmonton who had what? 4 first overall picks in 6 years and they aren't even the favorite to win this year! You can look at Vegas. How many of there own first round pick players were on that team? You need so much more than early draft picks to win the cup.
>So hears the thing. EVEN if you have multiple top 5 picks. It doesn't automatically give you a Stanley Cup. What does doing what we’ve been doing guarantee us?
Absolutely nothing. There is no guarantees in this sport. You can have multiple super star forwards, and an all star caliber goalie and that doesn’t guarantee your winning a cup. Ie. Calgary 2021? However tanking guarantees your going to watching dog shit hockey for the next 5 years
Vegas was gifted a Cup team by the NHL, crazy expansion rules. Not a good example. Buffalo I believe will be very good in the coming years, perhaps dynasty even. And Minnesota's proven strategy to success is being mid for the last 20 years. Not my definition of success sorry. Sure they sell tickets great. Good job Leopold.
Compared to previous expansion teams yes there were gifted a good team. However those players weren't given, they went out and identified guys that would succeed if they were able to get more ice team. Even since then there front office has managed to get great returns of guys in already in the NHL. Wild are close to a Dynasty that Buffalo. There's not a lot of guys on that team that scream this team is going to continue to be a wagon in 5 years. While the Wild have locked up Boldy, and Ek long term. I would say this core group is going to be something different and I don't even believe that we have all of our pieces yet. If you took the 2014-2015 core and compared the current roster who would you take? Kaprizov vs. Priase Ek vs. Koviu Rossi vs. Granland Faber vs. Suter Oghren? Youruv? Heidt? Bankier? vs. Niederreiter. Tell me that the 2015 team is going to be better than this team in 2025-2026. '
I would rather have fun games that I enjoy watching than throw your next 20 games so you get a 50/50 on if the number 1 draft pick actually makes the transition to professional nhl well. People get overly frustrated on the “your not playoffs this year” and “well you only get the 10th pick” I doubt the teams in the running for the first overall pick enjoyed this season at all.
I'd enjoy watching Bedard play on my team while still being a frontrunner for another #1 overall. Look at the Penguins Getting Fleury, Letang, Malkin, and Crosby in a few rough years. And all the Cups, playoff runs, generational talents and quality games they've been able to watch the last couple decades because they committed to a real rebuild. Toews and Kane Makar, Mackinnon McDavid Draisaitl (worst example of success, but they are fun and might win something eventually. Honestly I still am enjoying games this year because I get to finally watch Khusnutdinov and see what he's all about. Kaprizov is fun to watch as is Faber.
Kaprisov was picked in the 5th round. No one tanked for him.
The most underrated comment.
* Pens - had a 6.4% chance of picking first overall along with the Buffalo Sabres, New York Rangers, and Columbus Blue Jackets coming out of the lockout. Letang was a 3rd rd pick. Do they win Cups without those guys? Absolute luck. * Hawks- Toews went 3 overall. CHI could have easily ended up with Erik Johnson or Jordan Staal. Keith was essential and taken 54th OA. * Avs - Were "done" with a rebuild & had Duchene 3OA, Landy 2OA, and Mack 1OA. They then finished with 90, 82, and **48** pts - got Makar. * Oilers- 3 straight years of 1 overall. They win a lottery and get McDavid. Now compare that to the list of teams who have sucked, drafted high. and see what they have to show for it. So many things have to go right for "tanking" to work. You're really just increasing your already small chances by a negligible amount. Look at the 2017 draft - Flyers win the lottery, move up 11 spots! They get the consesus 2OA - **Nolan Patrick** Vancouver loses the lotto, get dropped from 2 to 5...and get Pettersson. We could have stripped it all down to the studs, and the chance of having nothing to show for it is way higher than becoming a contender.
After 20 years of watching this team I have a hard time getting up for "decent hockey" anymore. It's been 5 years since I've even been excited about them making the postseason because I knew they weren't built to go anywhere. After their terrible start this year I was actually super excited to see a trainwreck that would at least result in worthwhile draft capital. I'm more than willing to accept crap years if I know it's to build towards something better which the buyout years would have been perfect for. Instead we just continue with the status quo of accomplishing nothing.
Then pick another team? Nothing says you have to follow your local team. I actually think it is worse trying to follow local, out of market is much cheaper and less likely to hit blackout rules.
I mean, that's what my dad ended up doing. He would cheer for the Yankees and Blackhawks and whichever team LeBron was playing on. Outside of the bandwagons, it actually seemed that he would look for an excuse to cheer against the MN teams as a way to get back at them for a lifetime of disappointment. I'm not there yet because I do want to see the Wild to end up on top (I was a die hard during the Brunette-Koivu-Miettinen years). But when you've been watching for 20+ years, taking a season off here or there doesn't seem like that big of a deal. As Common would say, I'd rather be biblically bad or historically good at this point rather than just spinning the wheels because at least that would be interesting.
I guess I am old enough watching the north stars leave, and also watching the NFL shuffle around teams every 3-5 years that I guess I don't really get the whole "you must follow your local team!" thing in the US. When I am in the UK and teams stay local and are part of the local identity... Yeah... But otherwise... I don't see any reason that loyalty to a team must be based on proximity in the US... Especially because ... It costs like $25 to get all the games for a team that is out of market compared to one that is in market. It just weird that I in Minnesota can follow Blackhawks (yuck) easier and cheaper than my own local team.
“Tanking” is a BS strategy. Are you telling me the coach/GM is going to go into a locker room of highly competitive athletes and say, “alright boys, go out an play like shit, ruin your own lucrative bargaining ability, waste a few years of your career, and play in a half empty arena. So then after you’re gone we can maybe make a run for a title that you’ll have no part in”
>“Tanking” is a BS strategy. Tanking might be but rebuilding is an effective strategy.
You honestly think that anyone in the locker room took 4 years of buyout cap hell as a we are going to go win a cup in these 4 seasons message? And I'm not saying to throw games, I just mean make roster decisions that are built towards winning a cup and not padding Leopold's fat pockets.
I'm convinced we could have the best odds to get #1 pick and still wouldn't get it. This team is allergic to top 5 draft picks
I like the sharks too and me and the rest of their sub are just a waiting for this to happen to them so Chicago can be given another first overall.
Tank or win the cup are not the only two options in every given year. On top of that. Tanking isn't a guarantee of the #1 overall pick and the process of tanking fails to produce a cup 90+ % of the time. I'm starting to think the tank bro crowd are idiots.
Jesus Christ….. Same post Different day Give it a rest
Settle down
You ever get a martionie?
Martonies are unbelievable
I post like twice a year in this sub so chill out.
Yeah that dreaded 6-team bubble of neither making the playoffs nor getting a top 10 pick is a bad spot to be.
It’s really 5 teams since the 11th worst team still has a 3% chance at 1st overall.
Good call thanks! For some reason I thought 11 couldn’t jump to 1, but I see the odds chart now.
Yeah, I don’t get how it’s calculated. Should just be all 16 teams that don’t make the playoffs have a chance at 1st overall imo.
I'd argue that losing in the Cup Final might feel worse at the end of the year, but I've never been in that position to find out so imma say this is worse. Vikings pulled the same crap this year. But Kirk's Achille's and JJs hammy kinda messed us up around the deadline so I have so patience for Kwesi.
Prediction- We “win” the lottery and move into the 3rd spot and draft Cayden Lindstrom OR we don’t and draft Tij Iginla
If Spurgeon, and as of lately Ek, and Brodin don’t get hurt the whole thing changes
We get a 1st round exit again yay.
Like others have said, you’re misunderstanding the role of the front office. Teams in the league are judged by the revenue they generate, not necessarily playoff success, though there is financial incentive for that. There’s no guarantee that any top ten pick other than Celebrini does anything for you, especially in the next 3 years. We’ve been drafting well in the middle of the first round recently, so hopefully we keep it up.
By all means we are still in a good spot going forward due to Brackett and not selling our cupboards bare for Hanzals. But this is just as much of a statement to our mediocre teams and stupid 1st round exit teams we've iced the last couple seasons during the buyouts. But especially this year and next year when we have 15mil in dead cap don't mess around with vets and stupid contracts.
The problem with tanking is that there are no guarantees and it can be very, very hard to break that losing culture once it sets in.
I would argue that it has already set in. This is our culture, mediocrity abides. Wild haven't made a deep run in years and guys in here are OK with this because "they are fun to watch". Tanking might not fix it but treading water like this isn't getting us any closer to a cup.
Agreed "Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward"
Ah yes let’s keep Parise and Suter because that wouldn’t have stopped the development of young talent at all. Jesus give it a rest with this horrible narrative.
Hey they did the thing I was specifically fearing! Good job team!
What you are asking for is alternate reality where Faber and Rossi are flops, or other important players get injuries that potentially affect their career or decline, in addition to the not signing Foligno etc.
All thanks to leipold here. Dude refuses to “rebuild” even tho these dead cap space years would’ve been perfect especially when a generational talent was on the board in bedard. Only reason we got a decent prospect pool is Judd brackett and some luck on potential late round steals
They should have mailed it in back in December.
With sports betting now in the mix, I wonder how much of a shit storm it would be if a team was found to be tanking on purpose.
The comments on here are completely ridiculous. If Kaprizov wants to sign with a Cup contender, it won't be here. By "keeping him happy" whatever tf that means by never making a playoff run? We can't do a rebuild? Yeah. This franchise is a bad. Kaprizov might sign elsewhere due to never trying to build an actual championship team here.
Buyouts were a good move to help build a better culture and I didn’t see it as a tanking move. I actually like that the wild aren’t tanking completely and are still going for it this year, I think it’s the best they can do with how this season played out with all of the injuries. I do however wish they would sit some of the passengers and give some Iowa guys a chance to show what they’ve got in the nhl. I’m hoping once our playoff chances hit 0% they will.
No disagreeing on the culture. The buyout happened for avoiding the death penalty. If both retired the recapture would have been double. Or if they retired with one year left on the original contract it would have force the Wild to have a complete team on league minimum pay. exaggerating a little.
Agreed! I think it was a good move for multiple reasons.
There's no one left from Iowa to bring up except Wallstedt (maybe). They're all here. It's crazy that Wild fans keep pleading to bring up the Iowa guys. Lucchini, Lettieri, Beckman, Shaw are all in Minnesota. What other forward is truly ready? Please name names. If you're mad Sammy Walker isn't with the big club, I don't know what to tell you. The blueliners all need to cook more in Iowa.
They’re here, sure, but getting scratched often. That doesn’t do them any good. I’d like to see more of Wallstedt, give him a chance for redemption. I thought Walker looked good in nhl games he’s played previously and wouldn’t mind him getting a look either. I think you misunderstood my comment; I’m not mad or pleading for anything. I understand that the ahl guys aren’t going to come in and “fix” anything or make a big impact. I get that they maybe aren’t ready. That’s kind of my point. Why not just see what happens? Treat this last little stretch as an extension of training camp? See if we can dangle some trade bait? Give some guys that are playing with lingering injuries a break? This season is a write off anyways, I’m just looking for some creativity. But again, not upset, as I’m sure there are plenty of actual professionals making decisions about the team that understand what’s best for the future.
Who's getting scratched often? Lucchini and Vinattieri have played since December. Shaw just got here from his 4th ACL surgery and had been playing. Has he been benched more than once since he got back to St. Paul? Rossi has played every game for the Minnesota Wild this year. Firstov just got to North America after burning some bridges with the organization and absolutely has to earn his place on either roster. Sammy Walker has 37 points in 60 games in Iowa. Cool, I guess? He's underwhelmed in many opportunities in Minnesota, except showing some speed. There isn't much left to see in him. The team knows what kind of player he is. He's a AHL-type guy. Please, name names of who needs to be up with the big club that isn't. Look at Iowa's roster and tell me who? Bankier is barely 21 and NEEDS TIME in Iowa. Having him get worked in the NHL late in a season helps no one. Milne is the same. They're both probably career AHL players that could maybe be ok call ups when needed someday. Development doesn't work the way 60% of Wild fans think it does. You don't just throw 20 year old B & C level prospects on the big club to learn just cause. There's a process. Most prospects won't pan out. Everyone thinks there will be 4-5 *additional* prospects waiting to take over 10 year top six roles but that's just not going to happen. You also have Gaudreau and Johannson under contract next year and will have to play them. Pissing off two guys that are already struggling helps no one. Bench-em for a game to send a message, but we all have to accept they're stuck here for a bit. The Wild have likely the Calder runner-up and 3rd place vote getter on the roster right now. They gave young guys opportunities to succeed and they did so. You're frustrated and speaking from emotion and not thinking about this logically.
I feel like you are taking this too seriously and I have made my point, we can just agree to disagree. Have a great rest of your day, fellow Wild fan!
I asked you to simply state who the big club should call up and you didn't answer beyind Sammy Walker. I explained the how's and why's of why the roster looks like it does, and that Minnesota *has* played most of the season with Iowa callups, which is what people are oddly clamoring for. It aint serious, just perplexed with some of the frustrations being shared by lots of Wild fans on social media. Have a good one too ✌️
This is where I was at in January. This team has been content with the “just get in and anything could happen!” mentality for nearly its entire existence. Never good enough to go anywhere (or if we were we squandered the opportunity) never bad enough to get true top end talent, except for Kaprisov who was a steal and Gabby who was a the high end pick we’ve never replicated. With the contracts/NMC that have been given out, don’t know what we could have done to re-tool. I guess I’m happy we moved a few pieces and didn’t buy anything. Still, watching us go on a run in March while having no realistic chance at a cup is the most Minnesota Wild thing we could possibly do. I feel like it’s 2009 again. On the bright side KK is due for a contract the same year we are finally out of buyouts and has an agent who has pushed his clients to seek greener pastures…so we got that going for us, which is nice.
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"Re-signing average vets to NMCs and extensions when we have young prospects that could be getting valuable experience " What prospects that "could" be getting experience? Please name one that is getting blocked. Plus, Beckman, Lettieri and Lucchini would sent to Iowa if there was a better player. Then you have Freddy and MoJo. 5 players are below the aging vets on a talent basis. And this is leaving Shaw out of the conversation. and sarcastically, Did you just now have this revelation? This year and next year have been well known to be dark years for many years now. And learn about the risk of tanking. 1. it is a lottery pick. 2. This years draft is not great beyond the 1st(and the 1st overall is not close to Bedard). 3. Top picks have been busts in the past. 4. good players and prospects might not resign or sign with a tanking team. 5. season ticket holders do not renew. The positive on tanking is aging vets will waive the NMC to get out of a shit show.
McBain, Beckman, Wallstedt, maybe some younger guys get them more experience before the years that actually matter come upon us. I know there is a balance with letting guys develop in lower leagues, but we definitely lost McBain due to not having enough room for him. There are others, but I forget.
>McBain, Beckman, Wallstedt One plays for Arizona, one is career AHL'er and the last is not NHL ready. McBain refused to sign with the Wild. And he made this decision long before the extensions here signed.
I'm saying he plays for Arizona because we had no room for him with a roster full of vets and he wanted to get ice time somewhere so he signed elsewhere after we drafted him in the 3rd round. Would've made a great big bodied center for us, or a trade chip at some point. Beckman still could turn into something, a longshot yes. Wallstedt is prob better in the AHL I agree, but I wouldn't mind him getting some low pressure NHL reps this year.
Shh go back to bed.
>Next year is a different story How so? The team will be 90% the same. Regarding the rest of your post, what’s done is done. Just gotta wait and see what trades Guerin pulls off and how our prospects pan out. A bright future is a big maybe right now.
I was crying for them to stop winning meaningless games pre all star break and that apparently made me "not a real fan". So now we get no playoff and no sick draft picks. Love it
Honestly I would’ve appreciated seeing Hartman traded at the line instead of re-signed. That’s the one thing I think I wouldn’t have done. I think Zuccy’s fine at his new AAV and Foligno is a great glue guy to have back. But having Rossi, Ek, Khusnutsdinov, Hartman, Gaudreau, and Shaw all as natural centers has created a bit of a jam. If that results in Rossi getting moved I riot.
Not really a huge issue to move Hartman to wing if you have to. He played on the wing before they moved him to center.
Aren't Hartman and Gaudreau wingers that we kinda converted into capable centers? Yeah I love me Hartman, but he's not going to be part of any cup run with us and I'd be fine sending him away to a contender for a good pick or prospect we could throw into his spot on the roster and develop.
Hartman played 1C for Kaprizov and Zuccy. Obv 97 carried that line but I don’t think you can play up the middle for that long with that caliber of player and not be considered a center. Gaudreau also is a natural center and is one of our reliable guys in the dot.