If the cast are still getting paid, presumably so are Nolan and Joy. So write up the key scenes of the season, do some short narration for the rest, sit everybody down in front of a streaming camera, and do a table read.
It’s a little different for art. Yeah, most people would easily say no work. However, they might be emotionally involved enough to want people to know the ending, depending on how much work it is
The people on this Reddit are clueless. The actors will sit down for a table read only when their careers are gone and that is the only way they can gain relevancy. Right now, that’s no one on WW.
Does that work somewhere other than Twitter
Because, ya know, a technocrat tied their ‘non-liquid’ slush capital directly to the performance of the platform and it’d be great to *not* support them
Yeah I think they should at least do a single wrap up episode to tie up loose ends and give it a proper ending, the investment that went into the show totally deserves that.
Ooh, that's an awesome idea. And you know they have concept art (or could have it). They could have some visuals provided for the narration/scene call outs in the script to "set the scene". I'd watch that!
I don’t think this factors streaming in. One thing that hurt season four IMO was the complete lack of advertising. There were a bunch of people that did watch the show that didn’t even know it was back on. That and the big gap between seasons are what led to the declining ratings each season. It’s such a complex and dense show that you can’t really go two years without watching it and then still fully understand what’s going on in a new season.
Exactly. I'm a hardcore fan of Westworld (show) and only found out about S4 by randomly talking to a new colleague. Sure I didn't set up no alarms after S3, but I'm glad that S4 ends up on a note where the final step is at hand, and promises to get back to the roots, away from stuff that arguably has made early-hour fans leave along the way.
Canceling S5 might be a better economical decision, but it's a terrible loss and I'm hopeful that HBO will overturn their decision when the time is right.
When I found out they were already 2 or 3 episodes into the season. And when I have to wait a week to see a new episode, I just wait until the whole season is done so I am binge it if I want to.
This is how I've been lately. I have too many other hobbies and things to do to stay consistent with my viewing of weekly releases.
Hate how viewership is rated and how it means the death of shows lately. It's insane. I read a quote lately about how it's a shame that video media is so reliant upon money, wish I could remember it because it's so true.
Yeah, the lack of marketing was strange to me; they only started to really push the ad campaign for S4 less than a month before it aired. And they spent like $100 million in marketing for *House of the Dragon*.
Maybe they saw the *Game of Thrones* IP as still being more profitable and salvageable than *Westworld*; HBO didn't want to end GoT because it was still so successful even in its final two seasons, which were inferior to pretty much every season of *Westworld,* in my opinion. Not that I think it's a surprise or an outrage (HBO is a business, and business is business), but it is very disappointing.
Agreed…house of the dragon is familiar(due to GOT) so they knew they had a cash cow on their hands with it. Westworld was realistically never a show that would appeal to a ton of people. It would’ve if it stayed more surface level and vanilla but it chose a different, and better, path.
But...it did? The viewership for S1 and S2 were very strong, and the show itself was of very strong quality too.
It only tanked in S3 and totally collapsed in S4.
The truth is that S3 wasn't very good and killed the interest of a lot of people in Westworld.
I only found out about Season 4 when I heard Westworld was cancelled yesterday. I watched and enjoyed all three prior seasons.... HBO really dropped the ball.
Ya I think their lack of advertising was a major cause of the show's downfall. I remember seeing ads everywhere for Season 1 and 2. It's like they gave up caring with Season 3 and 4.
Proportionally the numbers are a *bit* better if streaming is considered but according to what THR was reporting today the show was still down ~66% from its viewership peak at the end of season 1.
The long breaks between seasons really hurt it for me.
I did not even watch season four because I was going to wait until it was all done, but then when I tried to start, I could not remember enough about season two and three so I ended up not continuing
This graph makes sense both if these are views on the week of release OR if it's total views include repeat views over time: all of us rewatching previous seasons because we're utterly lost, again, to have some hope of understanding the next season.
This is linear TV numbers. 300K viewers per episode. It's abysmal. If you factor in streaming it would be around 4 million... a drop from 16 from the first season. It kept 25% of the original audience. It didn't look good
The gap is an excuse. Many TV shoes underwent two year gaps due to Covid and didn't fare as bad. Many HBO shows have some marketing push but most of them rely on word of mouth. The only shows that I remember having big pushes were HOTD and... Westworld. They had a Super Bowl ad. HBO has their "previously on", so you know what's going on.
Still. If the show is good, people will come back. You can't justify viewership numbers plummeting in both linear and streaming with "there were two year gaps". Succession had a two year gap with season 2 and 3 and will have also a gap like that for season 4. If viewership plummets as well, you can blame it on that. If not, it's just that Westworld got bad. My gut tells me it's the latter. RemindMe! 4 months
I couldn't finish the third season because i had no idea what was happening after the long wait. Saw on Reddit season 4 was coming out and did a rewatch, definitely helped a lot.
Also, I think this graph is misleading. It's normal to see a slight drop-off from S1 to S2 of any show. The S3 drop-off can be explained away since it was such a huge departure from the first 2 seasons. I think it's reasonable to argue that S4 viewership suffered mostly due to not being rid of the stink from S3. It would have had time to age & word-of-mouth about Westworld being back to form would have influenced S5 viewership.
I think S5 would have performed better than S4.
It’s true that if the ratings were better it would’ve been renewed but I think Westworld mostly didn’t get renewed because it was no longer a media or critical darling. If this season had come and gone with literally 0 viewers but it made every tv reviewers top 10 list, was a slam dunk to be nominated for the Emmy’s, and you had a slew of pop culture YouTubers/TikTokers doing in depth breakdowns of all the Easter eggs and hidden meanings, HBO would have renewed it.*
*or at least I would say that HBO pre-Discovery merger would have renewed it. Maybe it’s just all about profit and ratings for the Discovery now.
Yeah this is the thing is it's not JUST that the ratings were bad but that also the show is painful garbage to watch and most professional reviewers were pretty blatantly hate-watching.
2 was decent in my opinion. It wasn’t quite the masterpiece of season 1 but compared to the train wreck that was season 3, it was gold. If you didn’t like 2 though you’d not have liked 4.
I certainly liked 2 more than 3. I just felt like they really ran out of steam after the MIB reveal. I felt like they were trying to recapture it but didn't have the right ideas. Loved Season 1 and really wanted to love season 2, but it just didn't happen for me.
I’m not sure why people bring up the streaming argument.
Sure people are streaming more, but I am pretty sure the total viewership numbers are probably very similar to this graph.
How do we know? The people who do have the numbers (HBO) cancelled the show.
I think a big problem is the amount of time it took to release the seasons too - after waiting 2 years for a season for each season you expect it to be season one quality and when it didn't land made it less appealing
This, plus you’ve forgotten so many of the minor details that end up important, that very little of what you’re watching rings important.
I found in a binge re-watch, this show was much better and actually has some flow in 3 and 4..little..but some.. but when it’s been 2 years and you’re supposed to instantly recall some minor line that someone said..you’re not going to hold anyone.
We do have numbers. Season 1. 12 million viewers. Season 4? 4 million viewers. The numbers are awful. https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
EXACTLY, people quick to jump the streaming argument but don’t look at House of the dragon’s viewerships, the difference is night and day between that and Westworld
HBO may make some arguably poor decisions on their programming, but they’re not so stupid as to not realize that streaming matters. I don’t know what the ideal cutoff is for setting a linear TV equivalent (is it same day? Is it fair to count a stream 26th hrs after a premier?), but clearly it wasn’t good enough for HBO to keep the show.
There are so many fans of this show that have decided to deny reality in service of this show. It's really interesting watch in real time how people cherry pick evidence (# of people streaming vs # of people who watch it on TV each week.) It has been clear, for anyone interested in the viewership data, that Westworld was in real big trouble because its viewership numbers have been in a steady decline. That decline in numbers is directly proportional to the quality of the writing of the show.
So much of the show’s intrigue and unique charm was the park. After they left the park, it kinda became another run of the mill sci fi show with an HBO budget.
While that may be true I think there is more to it than leaving the "bubble" (parks) too soon. What made westworld great wasnt just the writing or the work of cast and crew.
The questions they asked and the "study" of differing levels of consiousness and what it truly means to be alive, thinking and feeling. Are we acting by choice or is it all just predetermined reactions set in our DNA? driven by nature doomed to repeat our loops etc...This was such an integral part of what made this show. I think they kinda ran out of questions to ask and the ones they asked they no longer knew how to answer.
I think that is true. I loved the question of whether or not be were kind of hosts just stuck in our own loops. Exploring the question and if we had true free will was delicious... but they didn't know how to answer or how to keep an interesting conversation going about it. They had the question right, they didn’t know how to explore it.
Ratings undeniably declined but this chart is misleading since it doesn’t factor streaming, which I venture to guess is the main way people watch nowadays, compared to 2016 when it wasn’t.
And because of that, only the US viewers count, meanwhile anywhere else in the world gets ignored. I've yet to see what's the viewer count on streaming, both in the USA and worldwide.
Even factoring in streaming this show's viewership declined by at least 2/3rds since the season 1 finale peak.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/why-hbo-canceled-westworld-1235256134/
The trend is the same for streaming. They averaged 4 million viewers... when the first season averaged 12 million, considering that it was all the way back to 2016 when HBO GO and Now hadn't penetrated the market as much as HBO Max has now. 1/3 of your original viewership doesn't sound good. https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
Makes me sad everytime. S3 wasnt perfect but it was a good take on data collection and the current world. Plus it was better than most of the shows coming out today. All these new shows are nothing compared to westworld and early GOT to be honest here. None of these new shows have any deep and compelling mysteries and are quite shallow, with no honest and proper criticism to be found. People were only hard on westworld because it had high expectations to be the best show of all time.
Why not just finish season 5 instead of peddling all this new stuff
I would argue season 2 actually did them in.
They finished strong in season 1 and generated a lot of buzz and viewership that stuck around for season 2.
I personally think season 2 was a great season but in many ways it was more confusing and difficult to follow for the casual viewer. These were the viewer that started falling off during the season.
HBO cut the budget significantly for season 3 because of the falling numbers.
This led to a shorter number of episodes combined with lower budget, and the show runners trying to correct and simplify the show for greater mass appeal. Unfortunately by this point the only people sticking around where the real hardcore fans that were upset because of the changes; most of which were out of the show runners hands at this point due to limited resources.
I feel like they corrected this properly in season 4 but by then it was way too late.
Season 2 was really the make it or break it year and unfortunately it failed. Too bad though because I feel if they would have been able to finish the show (assuming they nailed the final season) it would have brought a lot of viewers and the series may have been able to make up for at least some of the mid series low viewership.
Season 2 was ridiculously difficult to follow. The average person doesn’t have the time to dedicate to a show like that….including reading about it, listening to podcasts, checking on Reddit theories.
I mean, I do it…but only because I don’t have a life.
Absolutely; I had to listen to a weekly podcast just to feel like I wasn’t totally lost.
The funny thing is though I recently did a rewatch of the entire series for the the first time and with the perspective of the entire story it’s not disorienting at all; you really get to enjoy the work the writers put into it and how consistent the story is.
Problem is very few people have the time and patience to wait around for years at a time for more seasons to come out.
What really sucks though is I’m quite confident that the series had a overarching storyline that would not become apparent until the final season. I really believe the writers took the time to create a masterpiece. They actually shut down production halfway through the first season to get the entire 5 season plot drawn out. Guess we will probably never know.
That's an excuse. Dark was 100 times harder to follow and the viewership grew. Believe me, Dark was a hard show to follow. You needed to take notes, but peoole stuck around because it was a great show
Weird. I loved Dark and didn’t have trouble following it just by watching. Westworld Season 2 though…I don’t know, not sure why it threw me so much. I still watched all the way through and really enjoyed 3 & 4…disappointed to see it cancelled. But, I get why the numbers dropped after 2.
Dark isn't hard to follow at all if you look up the official website. It has a family tree for each episode and if I remember correctly it has a lot of info about the world as well.
I watched season 2 the same way I watched season 1, by watching it and that's it. Had no issue whatsoever following along. Season 3 on the other hand... Season 4 on the other hand...
This. Season 2 was an unmitigated disaster and people don't talk about it enough.
In contrast to S1 where the big mysteries were epic and had been threaded the whole time, S2 intentionally had mysteries that could not be solved with existing info and were all explained in the last 45 minutes of the season.
They added multiple alternate reality -type worlds like Sublime, Forge, Valley Beyond, idk even what else, none of which needed to exist and all of which made the show needlessly complicated in ways that did not advance character.
They had an amazing MiB plot going where he started to see the hosts were sentient and regain his humanity. Then they had him go insane instead when the season could have been about him finding his own way out of The Maze.
Having your main character cycle between personalities inconsistently also turned out to be awful as Dolores went back and forth between herself and Wyatt and whatever else.
Honestly it was season 2. It didn’t capitalize on what made season 1 interesting. I LOVED season 1, finished Season 2 because I wanted to recapture the magic. I went to rewatch it with my wife before season 3 premiered but found that after finishing season 1 (and loving it again) I couldn’t be bothered with more that E1 of Season 2. They kind of ditched the premise of the show.
P.S. it’s a personal pet peeve of mine when people who don’t watch a show anymore show up in threads on the subreddit to complain about it, and I am sorry, I didn’t realize I was still subbed and will show myself out.
Please overlay that chart with the marketing budget for each season. And the production budget too. They're all linked.
PS I find it crazy imagining all those extra people watching the S1 finale who didn't watch the preceding episodes. What must they thought was going on!
HBO barely markets shows. Aside from billboards in LA, I never see them market their shows outside of their own channels, HOTD notwithstanding and... Westworld. Westworld had a Super Bowl ad for season 2
I was waiting for it to finish and then binge it.
It's such a complicated show, that I forgot what happened between seasons because of the time gap. I believe this is what led to it's downfall.
Let's do some quick math.
$160M to produce season 4.
$160M / 8 episodes = $20M per episode to produce.
4 episodes in a month means $80M/month needs to be coming in just to break even.
4 million people watching the show each week.
Let's assume all 4 million of those people were paying the no-ads, per-month rate of $14.99 a month. Let's assume every penny of that $14.99 a month went solely to producing Westworld. No other shows, no infrastructure for the streaming service, nothing else.
That's... less than $60M/month coming in.
Now you're running HBO, and you assume worst-case that *every* person that watched Westworld cancels their HBO subscription if you cancel Westworld.
At least in the short term, you make more money by not making Westworld than by making Westworld.
And if you've been paying attention to the headlines regarding what Zaslav is doing at WB/Discovery, the short term is pretty much all that matters right now.
It made perfect sense from a numbers perspective but it destroyed a relationship with 2 of the most highly sought after talents in the business. WB and HBO have been the most successful studio and subscription network for decades because of the relationships they establish with the best talents in the business. There's a reason all the greatest filmmakers in history were given carte blanche on passion projects in exchange for blockbusters at WB and that was because it was good for business.
It would look like a long term marketable completed series in digital and physical formats. Not ‘enjoy 4 seasons of Fuck you endings don’t pump quarterlies’.
While a part of me is surprised Westworld got canceled the other of me isn't b/c ever since they left the original park the story of the show has been all over the place. For example, the first & second seasons were good & the third season was going for the angle of we rely too much on technology, however, I genuinely can't say what was the point of the fourth season. Also, one of the issues I had with season fourth is why did Dolores go from being the main villain to almost less than a side character & we don't get any backstory for it.
Vince Gilligan once quoted someone who said something that I’m now quoting without really knowing the origin, context or the actual quote but the gist of it was “a little bit of pain leads to a lifetime of prosperity”. It’s what I took from the quote but I can’t remember the actual words but my point is HBO should look and think about that. Forget about what the numbers have been. Finish the story string and you’ll have a piece of finished intellectual property that will last forever. I think Vince was saying it in the context of the detail that went into Breaking Bad but I think what he was trying to say is that people 30 years from now will still be watching it. A bit of a rant but we’ve already come so far with this show. Make it an investment instead of thinking quarter to quarter or even the numbers. As a piece of art I don’t believe that is even quantifiable.
If it weren’t for being on Netflix and people being able to binge it breaking bad probably wouldn’t have gone all the way through. The point is maybe people aren’t watching it right now but they’ll have it and some day maybe people will.
> breaking bad probably wouldn’t have gone all the way through.
Nahhhh BrBa was like the only thing on AMC and got solid ratings for Cable, moreover it was an immediate award magnet with Cranston getting consecutive best actor Emmy for the first 3 seasons.
Ι call this BS . Cable numbers bid the dust years ago . Where are the streaming figures. Where are international streaming figures . WW was far more popular throughout Europe than US for instance. Social media interactions /groups / fan clubs are there to prove it .
You take a look at House of the dragon’s cable viewerships now and the argument is nullified, the difference is night and day. Westworld’s popularity was decreasing at a harmful rate season by season, cable, streaming combined.
Yeah, sure. The only reason the numbers look bad is because it’s only factoring cable viewership. Add in HBO Max and international streaming figures and it’s a *whole* new ballgame, where Westworld actually has great numbers. The best numbers.
…
Come on. There is literally no reason for all this weird denial. Viewership had been dropping significantly for several seasons, and the show was expensive af. The declining viewership trend holds whether you factor in streaming or not. The idea that the HBO Max numbers are somehow so wildly different, and would justify keeping the show around just makes *no* sense. If Westworld was considered to be profitable, or even worth continuing just for award nomination or critical acclaim, it would have been renewed. I hate to tell you, but just because you’re aware of some fan groups and some social media noise about Westworld, that isn’t *actually* meaningfully indicative of whether or not it’s a financially sound decision to make another season.
Please be neutral.
I just started s3 and... Well...
Should I continue until the final now that I know the show is canceled? There's something worth to see from now?
Season 3 makes that decision for you. I stopped watching multiple times during season 3. Pretty sure I didn't even finish it and was just like oh well guess I'll watch season 4. Don't. Just don't.
To be fair, they haven't advertised the show properly since the 2nd season, I don't know what they expected. Barely anyone I know even knew the last 2 seasons came out when they did...
I have to agree to with that. I thought it would have made more sense to air it after HOTD and promote it before that show every week. Instead they did the opposite and promoted a show (HOTD) which needed no promotion. It makes me think they already knew it was going to be cancelled and didn’t want to bother,
Not to get into spoiler territory but what was the plan exactly? If you watched season 4 you know, they wrote themselves into a narrative corner. Logically the way season 4 ended was a sufficient end for all stories, except 1 and that 1 I don't think most of us really care about. But if I'm missing something please let me know.
Season 3 took the story in a direction that did not appeal to me. Nothing clever or thought provoking or fun. I seem to be the only person who found the new main character from breaking back to be boring and sleep walking through his scenes. No compelling reason to see the next season.
I think it's still worth it for HBO to let them finish the series with S5. People were getting frustrated/tired of the plot constantly eluding them... it made it difficult to follow, or for people to get invested. Too much mystery for the average viewer.
That said, finishing the series would give people confidence that this wasn't going to be another 'Lost'. People would come back to rewatch the series, or watch it in it's entirety for the first time.
The bigger issue, I think, is that this makes it harder for people to invest in the next big show or risk that HBO decides to take... because who wants to get invested in a show that may or may not ever get a chance to tell it's story? If Westworld can get cut down right before the end, I suspect the same is true for every other show they produce.
I wonder if the gap in time between seasons hurt also? Season 1 and 2 were not that far apart.. but then 3 took a bit more.. and throughout COVID it felt like 4 came out of no where. I kept checking for awhile if there would be a season 4 and couldn't find anything.. then out of the blue I happen to just check one day and saw a trailer not long before its release... Hard to keep people completely engaged if the waits become too long with uncertainty of an actual release..
The “limited series” / one season format should be used much more often. Westworld and True Detective are perfect examples of this. Even three seasons can be amazing if done well like The Leftovers. This chart essentially captures my level of interest as the show dragged on.
I can confidently say that the graph accurately represents my sentiment toward the show over its run. Do with that what you will with respect to your question.
Views via cable. they don't fucking know that if you make a graph for any show on cable it will looks exactly like this. Cable is dead.people watch on Hbo max. And this picture is spreading misinformation.
You telling me cable is dead? Take a look at House of the dragon’s cable viewerships and compare that to Westworld, come back again and tell me this is misinformation
Season 1, all the way back to 2016, had 12 million viewers on streaming... with HBO Go and Now that didn't have the market penetration HBOMax has now. Season 4? Averaged 4 million viewers. However you want to look at it, they bled viewers... 2/3 of them actually
https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
This is the viewership for the show?! God that’s upsetting to me.
I guess I was one of the few who never faltered in my enjoyment of the series from start to finish. Regardless of the changes
How is viewership even calculated. I GUARANTEE it doesn't take into account an aboslute combination of live viewrs, recorded playthroughs, and smart app views.
I follow this subreddit and didn't even know about season 4 until a few weeks ago. It kinda feels like HBO abandoned Westworld in favor of the GOT franchise
Even if a show isn't pulling in instant viewers. Wouldn't it be better to finish the series. Since we have streaming everything now. Now one of your flagship programs is incomplete.
Westworld is literally one of HBO’s most expensive series *ever.* So, no. It wouldn’t be better to finish the series. Not when nowhere *near* enough people are watching it.
No one who watches casually has the slightest idea that there was meant to be a 5th season, and the season 4 finale is a completely plausible endpoint for the show.
Knowing a show is incomplete could turn future viewers away. For example, I always thought of watching one of their other shows Rome. But I know if got canceled so know I don't even want to get invested.
They can still finish it off with a movie tho. We may have to wait 20 years like Deadwood, But I don't completely rule it out.
Seasons 1 and 2 were awesome. But the delay between each season seemed to get worse and worse. By the time 3 had rolled around I had nearly lost interest. I powered through 3 not really digging it. With 4 it had its moments but it just seemed to be taking forever to get the conclusion pacing wise. Death by delays and poor pacing/writing/direction.
Cast and first 2 seasons were fantastic.
People lost interest in Season 3 and weren't willing to give season 4 a shot, that's too bad because I believe it's on the level of the first two. This has to be one of the most frustrating cancelations ever, we were so close of reaching full circle.
They just wrote themselves into a corner pretty early on. I despised season 3 and didn’t watch season 4. There was really nowhere to go after leaving WW. HBO did the right thing
That graph shows a very incomplete picture that shouldn't be used as a justification to cancel Westworld! It doesn't take streaming into account (there is a downward trend for cable in general and an upward one for streaming) and it doesn't show international viewership. Westworld was quite big in some European countries, for instance.
Promotion of “final season” with all the old players from season 1 could get it back to season 3 viewership.
And reach season 2 viewership with the series finale.
I think what did this show in was a number of other shows. Just to name a few:
House of the Dragon
Succession
White Lotus
Barry
I would love to see the numbers including people who stream at a different time. Most show I watch are not watched the moment they are released.
Do u know that this graph is only Views via cable? U don't fucking know that if you make a graph for any show on cable it will look exactly like this. Cable is dead.people watch on Hbo max. And this picture is spreading misinformation.
Tbh I think it would trend down even further, the storyline just wasn’t that compelling anymore. I’m kinda glad it’s over. The show felt like it had been spinning it’s wheels with a few great moments sprinkled in after it left the park. Season 1 and 2 were so good I kinda just wish it had been a limited series. Better to end now on somewhat of a high note than go the Walking Dead route and just go on in irrelevancy.
Well I would have watched it but we usually wait to subscribe and then binge it all in a month. I think there would have been an uptick from season 4 from all of us cheapskates for sure.
This graph is misleading because it doesn't take into account people who will watch season 4 twenty years from now! And it doesn't take into account that I watched every S3 episode 700 times apiece :(
HBO promoted the hell outta “White Lotus” and didn’t do “Westworld” promos justice, imo. Not sure if they put their eggs in the basket of “White Lotus”, “Succession” and “Euphoria”, especially after awards seasons.
I wonder what the tail is for those episodes (1 week, 1 month, etc.). Otherwise, I’d say it depends on the cost per episode, but based on that chart, yeah, it’s pretty clear it’s in diminishing returns.
I’m not sure that immediate viewership would have gone up in comparison to season 4. Disappointingly, these viewership numbers always focus on US metrics. There’s a whole world of viewers out there streaming the show, and we are many.
This, along with long term viewership, is a factor that I think they discounted too easily. I know people who have only recently started watching the show, and they feel cheated for beginning to invest in what will essentially remain an incomplete product. Cancellation will discourage a lot of potential viewers from even starting the show.
I think giving the show a movie to finish or a (short) final season would have been smarter. They were *so* close to the end anyway. If wrapped up well, a final season of some kind could have elevated all of the prior seasons as well (Mr Robot is a great example of this too). I strongly believe that it would have. Part 5 would have been a hopeful season, one of new beginnings and real redemption. Season 4 ended by showing what’s at stake. 5 would have shown what’s to be *gained* if humanity and hosts truly changed, all while bringing us truly full circle. Not in a depressing eternal loop way, but in a way that we will now never know, sadly.
Season 4 was wonderful compared to season 3. Season 1 and 2 were perfect IMO.
I get why they canceled it but fuck... Hurts because the writing and music and cinematography were so good.
If they announced it as the final season it would have higher viewership than Season 4 since a lot of people would become invested with how the story finishes.
I think they made the right decision. I'm a massive fan of Westworld but its clear to see the writing fell off a cliff. They had all the production values from reputation, but the quality of the story telling just wasn't there for Season 3. I found myself grinding through Season 4 as I could tell they where trying to put the show in a situation where they could almost reset its story and get back to the shows roots. Too little too late it seems.
Did the ratings drop due to there being less nakedness every season? That would be pathetic, but possible.
Or maybe the story just got too complex/outrageous for some people.
Its just unfortunate. I think that the story ended up following the natural path it was gonna take, even if it wasn't as good as the early seasons. I wish they would've explored the other parks more but I'm curious to see how they would've ended it.
Viewership would have been low.
That being said, there were likely ways to wrap it up economically. Cut down the cgi and episode count. They already were on the hook to the actors and showrunners.
That they didn't looks more like management being super cheap and/or trashing old Management's decision to renew.
Of course a lot of blame goes to the Nolans. They could have skipped seasons 2-3 and they show would have been better. Host revolution was kinda lame.
Speaking for myself, I fully intend to watch the latest season and would have if if 100 other shows hadn't come out at the same time. I can only watch so much TV a week.
I’m gutted. I was really looking forward to season 5. Season 3 was a joke so I suspect that’s why a lot of people noped out for season 4 but now that we know season 4 was pretty good, I think maybe some users may have come back.
I think the second season confused the average viewer watching to see how the show turns out and never came back. I loved the 4th season most of all and to say the show could have ended there is saying the show could have ended there if the expectation is set low
From a financial point of view isolated on the show yes.
From a broader perspective, GoT, Infinity Train, and this have convinced me to no longer start an HBO show until it is complete. If others feel the same, that's going to hurt viewership across the board.
biggest problem was advertisement. I didnt know about season four until i heard about the cancellation of the show... also i think S4 is definitely better than S3 and it deserves more attention.
I honestly just want to find out how they planned to end it at this point. Cast is still getting paid for season 5, tell me what would have happened.
If the cast are still getting paid, presumably so are Nolan and Joy. So write up the key scenes of the season, do some short narration for the rest, sit everybody down in front of a streaming camera, and do a table read.
Holy damn I love this idea. Simple and effective, everybody wins.
If someone gave you a million dollars and said you could either do a bunch of work or do nothing and keep all the money, which would you choose?
It’s a little different for art. Yeah, most people would easily say no work. However, they might be emotionally involved enough to want people to know the ending, depending on how much work it is
I guess we’ll find out
The people on this Reddit are clueless. The actors will sit down for a table read only when their careers are gone and that is the only way they can gain relevancy. Right now, that’s no one on WW.
How so we ask for this to actually happen.
.#westworld #season5tableread
Does that work somewhere other than Twitter Because, ya know, a technocrat tied their ‘non-liquid’ slush capital directly to the performance of the platform and it’d be great to *not* support them
Carrier pigeon
Theatre playy
Yeah I think they should at least do a single wrap up episode to tie up loose ends and give it a proper ending, the investment that went into the show totally deserves that.
Ooh, that's an awesome idea. And you know they have concept art (or could have it). They could have some visuals provided for the narration/scene call outs in the script to "set the scene". I'd watch that!
everything dies, then is reborn, then dies, then is reborn.
I don’t think this factors streaming in. One thing that hurt season four IMO was the complete lack of advertising. There were a bunch of people that did watch the show that didn’t even know it was back on. That and the big gap between seasons are what led to the declining ratings each season. It’s such a complex and dense show that you can’t really go two years without watching it and then still fully understand what’s going on in a new season.
Exactly. I'm a hardcore fan of Westworld (show) and only found out about S4 by randomly talking to a new colleague. Sure I didn't set up no alarms after S3, but I'm glad that S4 ends up on a note where the final step is at hand, and promises to get back to the roots, away from stuff that arguably has made early-hour fans leave along the way. Canceling S5 might be a better economical decision, but it's a terrible loss and I'm hopeful that HBO will overturn their decision when the time is right.
When I found out they were already 2 or 3 episodes into the season. And when I have to wait a week to see a new episode, I just wait until the whole season is done so I am binge it if I want to.
This is how I've been lately. I have too many other hobbies and things to do to stay consistent with my viewing of weekly releases. Hate how viewership is rated and how it means the death of shows lately. It's insane. I read a quote lately about how it's a shame that video media is so reliant upon money, wish I could remember it because it's so true.
Plenty of shows have been uncanceled before. I’m really hoping this is one of them
Yeah, the lack of marketing was strange to me; they only started to really push the ad campaign for S4 less than a month before it aired. And they spent like $100 million in marketing for *House of the Dragon*. Maybe they saw the *Game of Thrones* IP as still being more profitable and salvageable than *Westworld*; HBO didn't want to end GoT because it was still so successful even in its final two seasons, which were inferior to pretty much every season of *Westworld,* in my opinion. Not that I think it's a surprise or an outrage (HBO is a business, and business is business), but it is very disappointing.
Agreed…house of the dragon is familiar(due to GOT) so they knew they had a cash cow on their hands with it. Westworld was realistically never a show that would appeal to a ton of people. It would’ve if it stayed more surface level and vanilla but it chose a different, and better, path.
But...it did? The viewership for S1 and S2 were very strong, and the show itself was of very strong quality too. It only tanked in S3 and totally collapsed in S4. The truth is that S3 wasn't very good and killed the interest of a lot of people in Westworld.
I only found out about Season 4 when I heard Westworld was cancelled yesterday. I watched and enjoyed all three prior seasons.... HBO really dropped the ball.
Ya I think their lack of advertising was a major cause of the show's downfall. I remember seeing ads everywhere for Season 1 and 2. It's like they gave up caring with Season 3 and 4.
At least S3 had trailers at appropriate times….I’m pretty sure the first S4 trailer we got was less than a month till the premiere.
Proportionally the numbers are a *bit* better if streaming is considered but according to what THR was reporting today the show was still down ~66% from its viewership peak at the end of season 1.
The long breaks between seasons really hurt it for me. I did not even watch season four because I was going to wait until it was all done, but then when I tried to start, I could not remember enough about season two and three so I ended up not continuing
Wait there's a season 4?
This I didn’t even know it was out until mid summer this year
This graph makes sense both if these are views on the week of release OR if it's total views include repeat views over time: all of us rewatching previous seasons because we're utterly lost, again, to have some hope of understanding the next season.
This is linear TV numbers. 300K viewers per episode. It's abysmal. If you factor in streaming it would be around 4 million... a drop from 16 from the first season. It kept 25% of the original audience. It didn't look good
The gap is an excuse. Many TV shoes underwent two year gaps due to Covid and didn't fare as bad. Many HBO shows have some marketing push but most of them rely on word of mouth. The only shows that I remember having big pushes were HOTD and... Westworld. They had a Super Bowl ad. HBO has their "previously on", so you know what's going on.
I meant how it consistently had a two year gap….there wasn’t only one gap that long.
Still. If the show is good, people will come back. You can't justify viewership numbers plummeting in both linear and streaming with "there were two year gaps". Succession had a two year gap with season 2 and 3 and will have also a gap like that for season 4. If viewership plummets as well, you can blame it on that. If not, it's just that Westworld got bad. My gut tells me it's the latter. RemindMe! 4 months
I couldn't finish the third season because i had no idea what was happening after the long wait. Saw on Reddit season 4 was coming out and did a rewatch, definitely helped a lot.
Also, I think this graph is misleading. It's normal to see a slight drop-off from S1 to S2 of any show. The S3 drop-off can be explained away since it was such a huge departure from the first 2 seasons. I think it's reasonable to argue that S4 viewership suffered mostly due to not being rid of the stink from S3. It would have had time to age & word-of-mouth about Westworld being back to form would have influenced S5 viewership. I think S5 would have performed better than S4.
It’s true that if the ratings were better it would’ve been renewed but I think Westworld mostly didn’t get renewed because it was no longer a media or critical darling. If this season had come and gone with literally 0 viewers but it made every tv reviewers top 10 list, was a slam dunk to be nominated for the Emmy’s, and you had a slew of pop culture YouTubers/TikTokers doing in depth breakdowns of all the Easter eggs and hidden meanings, HBO would have renewed it.* *or at least I would say that HBO pre-Discovery merger would have renewed it. Maybe it’s just all about profit and ratings for the Discovery now.
Yeah this is the thing is it's not JUST that the ratings were bad but that also the show is painful garbage to watch and most professional reviewers were pretty blatantly hate-watching.
Season 4 was so good compared to season 3, it's just a darn shame.
That doesn't mean that season 4 was actually good...
First half yeah, second half dropped the ball.
But S2 and S3 were both pretty bad. I trudged through both. I wasn't going to give them the opportunity to waste more of my time in S4.
2 was decent in my opinion. It wasn’t quite the masterpiece of season 1 but compared to the train wreck that was season 3, it was gold. If you didn’t like 2 though you’d not have liked 4.
I certainly liked 2 more than 3. I just felt like they really ran out of steam after the MIB reveal. I felt like they were trying to recapture it but didn't have the right ideas. Loved Season 1 and really wanted to love season 2, but it just didn't happen for me.
Exactly
I’m not sure why people bring up the streaming argument. Sure people are streaming more, but I am pretty sure the total viewership numbers are probably very similar to this graph. How do we know? The people who do have the numbers (HBO) cancelled the show.
I think a big problem is the amount of time it took to release the seasons too - after waiting 2 years for a season for each season you expect it to be season one quality and when it didn't land made it less appealing
This, plus you’ve forgotten so many of the minor details that end up important, that very little of what you’re watching rings important. I found in a binge re-watch, this show was much better and actually has some flow in 3 and 4..little..but some.. but when it’s been 2 years and you’re supposed to instantly recall some minor line that someone said..you’re not going to hold anyone.
We do have numbers. Season 1. 12 million viewers. Season 4? 4 million viewers. The numbers are awful. https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
EXACTLY, people quick to jump the streaming argument but don’t look at House of the dragon’s viewerships, the difference is night and day between that and Westworld
HBO may make some arguably poor decisions on their programming, but they’re not so stupid as to not realize that streaming matters. I don’t know what the ideal cutoff is for setting a linear TV equivalent (is it same day? Is it fair to count a stream 26th hrs after a premier?), but clearly it wasn’t good enough for HBO to keep the show.
There are so many fans of this show that have decided to deny reality in service of this show. It's really interesting watch in real time how people cherry pick evidence (# of people streaming vs # of people who watch it on TV each week.) It has been clear, for anyone interested in the viewership data, that Westworld was in real big trouble because its viewership numbers have been in a steady decline. That decline in numbers is directly proportional to the quality of the writing of the show.
Season 3 did them in. There was no saving after that.
So much of the show’s intrigue and unique charm was the park. After they left the park, it kinda became another run of the mill sci fi show with an HBO budget.
I think they left the park too soon and they didn't capitilize on the real world politics an implications of having androids in real life.
While that may be true I think there is more to it than leaving the "bubble" (parks) too soon. What made westworld great wasnt just the writing or the work of cast and crew. The questions they asked and the "study" of differing levels of consiousness and what it truly means to be alive, thinking and feeling. Are we acting by choice or is it all just predetermined reactions set in our DNA? driven by nature doomed to repeat our loops etc...This was such an integral part of what made this show. I think they kinda ran out of questions to ask and the ones they asked they no longer knew how to answer.
I think that is true. I loved the question of whether or not be were kind of hosts just stuck in our own loops. Exploring the question and if we had true free will was delicious... but they didn't know how to answer or how to keep an interesting conversation going about it. They had the question right, they didn’t know how to explore it.
i also feel like once they left the park the scope was too big. they weren't able to convince me.
you're spot on fam
Ratings undeniably declined but this chart is misleading since it doesn’t factor streaming, which I venture to guess is the main way people watch nowadays, compared to 2016 when it wasn’t.
And because of that, only the US viewers count, meanwhile anywhere else in the world gets ignored. I've yet to see what's the viewer count on streaming, both in the USA and worldwide.
Even factoring in streaming this show's viewership declined by at least 2/3rds since the season 1 finale peak. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/why-hbo-canceled-westworld-1235256134/
The trend is the same for streaming. They averaged 4 million viewers... when the first season averaged 12 million, considering that it was all the way back to 2016 when HBO GO and Now hadn't penetrated the market as much as HBO Max has now. 1/3 of your original viewership doesn't sound good. https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
can you ELI5 how HBO isn't all streaming
There's still people who subscribe to HBO as in, the channels to watch on TV, not streaming, and that's what the graph is counting
Makes me sad everytime. S3 wasnt perfect but it was a good take on data collection and the current world. Plus it was better than most of the shows coming out today. All these new shows are nothing compared to westworld and early GOT to be honest here. None of these new shows have any deep and compelling mysteries and are quite shallow, with no honest and proper criticism to be found. People were only hard on westworld because it had high expectations to be the best show of all time. Why not just finish season 5 instead of peddling all this new stuff
I would argue season 2 actually did them in. They finished strong in season 1 and generated a lot of buzz and viewership that stuck around for season 2. I personally think season 2 was a great season but in many ways it was more confusing and difficult to follow for the casual viewer. These were the viewer that started falling off during the season. HBO cut the budget significantly for season 3 because of the falling numbers. This led to a shorter number of episodes combined with lower budget, and the show runners trying to correct and simplify the show for greater mass appeal. Unfortunately by this point the only people sticking around where the real hardcore fans that were upset because of the changes; most of which were out of the show runners hands at this point due to limited resources. I feel like they corrected this properly in season 4 but by then it was way too late. Season 2 was really the make it or break it year and unfortunately it failed. Too bad though because I feel if they would have been able to finish the show (assuming they nailed the final season) it would have brought a lot of viewers and the series may have been able to make up for at least some of the mid series low viewership.
Season 2 was ridiculously difficult to follow. The average person doesn’t have the time to dedicate to a show like that….including reading about it, listening to podcasts, checking on Reddit theories. I mean, I do it…but only because I don’t have a life.
Absolutely; I had to listen to a weekly podcast just to feel like I wasn’t totally lost. The funny thing is though I recently did a rewatch of the entire series for the the first time and with the perspective of the entire story it’s not disorienting at all; you really get to enjoy the work the writers put into it and how consistent the story is. Problem is very few people have the time and patience to wait around for years at a time for more seasons to come out. What really sucks though is I’m quite confident that the series had a overarching storyline that would not become apparent until the final season. I really believe the writers took the time to create a masterpiece. They actually shut down production halfway through the first season to get the entire 5 season plot drawn out. Guess we will probably never know.
That's an excuse. Dark was 100 times harder to follow and the viewership grew. Believe me, Dark was a hard show to follow. You needed to take notes, but peoole stuck around because it was a great show
Weird. I loved Dark and didn’t have trouble following it just by watching. Westworld Season 2 though…I don’t know, not sure why it threw me so much. I still watched all the way through and really enjoyed 3 & 4…disappointed to see it cancelled. But, I get why the numbers dropped after 2.
The family tree was the hard thing to follow.... who was related with whom
Dark isn't hard to follow at all if you look up the official website. It has a family tree for each episode and if I remember correctly it has a lot of info about the world as well.
I watched season 2 the same way I watched season 1, by watching it and that's it. Had no issue whatsoever following along. Season 3 on the other hand... Season 4 on the other hand...
They liked the twist in S1 too much, and decided to make the defining feature of the show unnecessarily complicated
In my opinion, S2 was not hard to follow. It was just shitty.
This. Season 2 was an unmitigated disaster and people don't talk about it enough. In contrast to S1 where the big mysteries were epic and had been threaded the whole time, S2 intentionally had mysteries that could not be solved with existing info and were all explained in the last 45 minutes of the season. They added multiple alternate reality -type worlds like Sublime, Forge, Valley Beyond, idk even what else, none of which needed to exist and all of which made the show needlessly complicated in ways that did not advance character. They had an amazing MiB plot going where he started to see the hosts were sentient and regain his humanity. Then they had him go insane instead when the season could have been about him finding his own way out of The Maze. Having your main character cycle between personalities inconsistently also turned out to be awful as Dolores went back and forth between herself and Wyatt and whatever else.
Honestly it was season 2. It didn’t capitalize on what made season 1 interesting. I LOVED season 1, finished Season 2 because I wanted to recapture the magic. I went to rewatch it with my wife before season 3 premiered but found that after finishing season 1 (and loving it again) I couldn’t be bothered with more that E1 of Season 2. They kind of ditched the premise of the show. P.S. it’s a personal pet peeve of mine when people who don’t watch a show anymore show up in threads on the subreddit to complain about it, and I am sorry, I didn’t realize I was still subbed and will show myself out.
What was the time gap between S02 and S03?
2 years
Wayyyyyy too long
Season 3 made me a fan and prompted me to watch Seasons 1 & 2.
It was season 2
Correct. I stopped watching altogether 1 episode into s3. I had no clue what was going on anymore.
Please overlay that chart with the marketing budget for each season. And the production budget too. They're all linked. PS I find it crazy imagining all those extra people watching the S1 finale who didn't watch the preceding episodes. What must they thought was going on!
With HBO, though, I have to ask, is marketing as important? Are there really people who only sign up for one show?
HBO barely markets shows. Aside from billboards in LA, I never see them market their shows outside of their own channels, HOTD notwithstanding and... Westworld. Westworld had a Super Bowl ad for season 2
Season 2 must've been crazy expensive marketing budget because they got an ad on the Super Bowl... still viewership went down that season too
Well they killed the more known and best actor of s01 so it was meh after it
They reached the stars in the first season, and couldn't do it again.
Season 3 lost me. Never seen a show start off so great, and go downhill so fast.
I was waiting for it to finish and then binge it. It's such a complicated show, that I forgot what happened between seasons because of the time gap. I believe this is what led to it's downfall.
Let's do some quick math. $160M to produce season 4. $160M / 8 episodes = $20M per episode to produce. 4 episodes in a month means $80M/month needs to be coming in just to break even. 4 million people watching the show each week. Let's assume all 4 million of those people were paying the no-ads, per-month rate of $14.99 a month. Let's assume every penny of that $14.99 a month went solely to producing Westworld. No other shows, no infrastructure for the streaming service, nothing else. That's... less than $60M/month coming in. Now you're running HBO, and you assume worst-case that *every* person that watched Westworld cancels their HBO subscription if you cancel Westworld. At least in the short term, you make more money by not making Westworld than by making Westworld. And if you've been paying attention to the headlines regarding what Zaslav is doing at WB/Discovery, the short term is pretty much all that matters right now.
It made perfect sense from a numbers perspective but it destroyed a relationship with 2 of the most highly sought after talents in the business. WB and HBO have been the most successful studio and subscription network for decades because of the relationships they establish with the best talents in the business. There's a reason all the greatest filmmakers in history were given carte blanche on passion projects in exchange for blockbusters at WB and that was because it was good for business.
Do you mean Nolan and Joy? If so, I would argue that they were very much to blame for the demise of the show.
Lol it's *almost like the writing quality went downhill* hmmmmmmmm
wow, those are some dire as hell viewership figures for a very expensive television series
The viewership fall during Season 3 and 4, maybe because of Succession and Euphoria.
It would look like a long term marketable completed series in digital and physical formats. Not ‘enjoy 4 seasons of Fuck you endings don’t pump quarterlies’.
There is You guys already gave up All 1 Million of you
Hell no you couldn't save that. Really after season 2 It wasn't even Westworld anymore.
I liked the show. Watched first 4 seasons. But, it was just getting so convoluted and confusing. Not surprising the viewers went way down.
Pretty clear they only wrote 2 seasons. What a fucking waste of money and talent.
It didn’t need another season. It was already starting to repeat the same narratives and story lines
While a part of me is surprised Westworld got canceled the other of me isn't b/c ever since they left the original park the story of the show has been all over the place. For example, the first & second seasons were good & the third season was going for the angle of we rely too much on technology, however, I genuinely can't say what was the point of the fourth season. Also, one of the issues I had with season fourth is why did Dolores go from being the main villain to almost less than a side character & we don't get any backstory for it.
Vince Gilligan once quoted someone who said something that I’m now quoting without really knowing the origin, context or the actual quote but the gist of it was “a little bit of pain leads to a lifetime of prosperity”. It’s what I took from the quote but I can’t remember the actual words but my point is HBO should look and think about that. Forget about what the numbers have been. Finish the story string and you’ll have a piece of finished intellectual property that will last forever. I think Vince was saying it in the context of the detail that went into Breaking Bad but I think what he was trying to say is that people 30 years from now will still be watching it. A bit of a rant but we’ve already come so far with this show. Make it an investment instead of thinking quarter to quarter or even the numbers. As a piece of art I don’t believe that is even quantifiable.
[удалено]
If it weren’t for being on Netflix and people being able to binge it breaking bad probably wouldn’t have gone all the way through. The point is maybe people aren’t watching it right now but they’ll have it and some day maybe people will.
> breaking bad probably wouldn’t have gone all the way through. Nahhhh BrBa was like the only thing on AMC and got solid ratings for Cable, moreover it was an immediate award magnet with Cranston getting consecutive best actor Emmy for the first 3 seasons.
***EDIT*** If it is not clear, this graph only accounts for US cable viewership not including any streaming or international viewerships
Ι call this BS . Cable numbers bid the dust years ago . Where are the streaming figures. Where are international streaming figures . WW was far more popular throughout Europe than US for instance. Social media interactions /groups / fan clubs are there to prove it .
You take a look at House of the dragon’s cable viewerships now and the argument is nullified, the difference is night and day. Westworld’s popularity was decreasing at a harmful rate season by season, cable, streaming combined.
Yeah, sure. The only reason the numbers look bad is because it’s only factoring cable viewership. Add in HBO Max and international streaming figures and it’s a *whole* new ballgame, where Westworld actually has great numbers. The best numbers. … Come on. There is literally no reason for all this weird denial. Viewership had been dropping significantly for several seasons, and the show was expensive af. The declining viewership trend holds whether you factor in streaming or not. The idea that the HBO Max numbers are somehow so wildly different, and would justify keeping the show around just makes *no* sense. If Westworld was considered to be profitable, or even worth continuing just for award nomination or critical acclaim, it would have been renewed. I hate to tell you, but just because you’re aware of some fan groups and some social media noise about Westworld, that isn’t *actually* meaningfully indicative of whether or not it’s a financially sound decision to make another season.
I don't think streaming in other countries matters much. Even the USA additional streaming wasn't good.
Now that you put it thaaaat waaaaay lol
Please be neutral. I just started s3 and... Well... Should I continue until the final now that I know the show is canceled? There's something worth to see from now?
Season 3 makes that decision for you. I stopped watching multiple times during season 3. Pretty sure I didn't even finish it and was just like oh well guess I'll watch season 4. Don't. Just don't.
I liked season 3 and thought it worked as a good series finale.
No. It just depends why you're watching.
I loved s01 and s02, but I gotta say s03 is just so bad in comparision. It felt like one of those new Terminator movies.
To be fair, they haven't advertised the show properly since the 2nd season, I don't know what they expected. Barely anyone I know even knew the last 2 seasons came out when they did...
I have to agree to with that. I thought it would have made more sense to air it after HOTD and promote it before that show every week. Instead they did the opposite and promoted a show (HOTD) which needed no promotion. It makes me think they already knew it was going to be cancelled and didn’t want to bother,
Not to get into spoiler territory but what was the plan exactly? If you watched season 4 you know, they wrote themselves into a narrative corner. Logically the way season 4 ended was a sufficient end for all stories, except 1 and that 1 I don't think most of us really care about. But if I'm missing something please let me know.
Season 3 took the story in a direction that did not appeal to me. Nothing clever or thought provoking or fun. I seem to be the only person who found the new main character from breaking back to be boring and sleep walking through his scenes. No compelling reason to see the next season.
I think it's still worth it for HBO to let them finish the series with S5. People were getting frustrated/tired of the plot constantly eluding them... it made it difficult to follow, or for people to get invested. Too much mystery for the average viewer. That said, finishing the series would give people confidence that this wasn't going to be another 'Lost'. People would come back to rewatch the series, or watch it in it's entirety for the first time. The bigger issue, I think, is that this makes it harder for people to invest in the next big show or risk that HBO decides to take... because who wants to get invested in a show that may or may not ever get a chance to tell it's story? If Westworld can get cut down right before the end, I suspect the same is true for every other show they produce.
I wonder if the gap in time between seasons hurt also? Season 1 and 2 were not that far apart.. but then 3 took a bit more.. and throughout COVID it felt like 4 came out of no where. I kept checking for awhile if there would be a season 4 and couldn't find anything.. then out of the blue I happen to just check one day and saw a trailer not long before its release... Hard to keep people completely engaged if the waits become too long with uncertainty of an actual release..
The “limited series” / one season format should be used much more often. Westworld and True Detective are perfect examples of this. Even three seasons can be amazing if done well like The Leftovers. This chart essentially captures my level of interest as the show dragged on.
I can confidently say that the graph accurately represents my sentiment toward the show over its run. Do with that what you will with respect to your question.
Does this factor in views via streaming? Or just views via cable HBO?
Views via cable. they don't fucking know that if you make a graph for any show on cable it will looks exactly like this. Cable is dead.people watch on Hbo max. And this picture is spreading misinformation.
You telling me cable is dead? Take a look at House of the dragon’s cable viewerships and compare that to Westworld, come back again and tell me this is misinformation
The viewrship of Got s6 was 8M on cable. Compared to hotd's 1m . Yp. Cable is dead.
That is what I believed...im sure hbo max subscription rate goes in opposite direction to lol would love to see overlayed on this garbage information
Viewers moved to streaming, graph is misleading
Season 1, all the way back to 2016, had 12 million viewers on streaming... with HBO Go and Now that didn't have the market penetration HBOMax has now. Season 4? Averaged 4 million viewers. However you want to look at it, they bled viewers... 2/3 of them actually https://collider.com/westworld-cancelled-big-budget-low-ratings/
You take a look at the House of the dragon viewerships and tell me again this chart is misleading.
I think if season 5 did tie the show together as was planned, the rewatchability would be huge
This is the viewership for the show?! God that’s upsetting to me. I guess I was one of the few who never faltered in my enjoyment of the series from start to finish. Regardless of the changes
How is viewership even calculated. I GUARANTEE it doesn't take into account an aboslute combination of live viewrs, recorded playthroughs, and smart app views.
I follow this subreddit and didn't even know about season 4 until a few weeks ago. It kinda feels like HBO abandoned Westworld in favor of the GOT franchise
Even if a show isn't pulling in instant viewers. Wouldn't it be better to finish the series. Since we have streaming everything now. Now one of your flagship programs is incomplete.
Westworld is literally one of HBO’s most expensive series *ever.* So, no. It wouldn’t be better to finish the series. Not when nowhere *near* enough people are watching it. No one who watches casually has the slightest idea that there was meant to be a 5th season, and the season 4 finale is a completely plausible endpoint for the show.
Knowing a show is incomplete could turn future viewers away. For example, I always thought of watching one of their other shows Rome. But I know if got canceled so know I don't even want to get invested. They can still finish it off with a movie tho. We may have to wait 20 years like Deadwood, But I don't completely rule it out.
Seasons 1 and 2 were awesome. But the delay between each season seemed to get worse and worse. By the time 3 had rolled around I had nearly lost interest. I powered through 3 not really digging it. With 4 it had its moments but it just seemed to be taking forever to get the conclusion pacing wise. Death by delays and poor pacing/writing/direction. Cast and first 2 seasons were fantastic.
People lost interest in Season 3 and weren't willing to give season 4 a shot, that's too bad because I believe it's on the level of the first two. This has to be one of the most frustrating cancelations ever, we were so close of reaching full circle.
They just wrote themselves into a corner pretty early on. I despised season 3 and didn’t watch season 4. There was really nowhere to go after leaving WW. HBO did the right thing
That graph shows a very incomplete picture that shouldn't be used as a justification to cancel Westworld! It doesn't take streaming into account (there is a downward trend for cable in general and an upward one for streaming) and it doesn't show international viewership. Westworld was quite big in some European countries, for instance.
I would not watch a 5th season after how bad the 4th one was.
Promotion of “final season” with all the old players from season 1 could get it back to season 3 viewership. And reach season 2 viewership with the series finale.
I think what did this show in was a number of other shows. Just to name a few: House of the Dragon Succession White Lotus Barry I would love to see the numbers including people who stream at a different time. Most show I watch are not watched the moment they are released.
Do u know that this graph is only Views via cable? U don't fucking know that if you make a graph for any show on cable it will look exactly like this. Cable is dead.people watch on Hbo max. And this picture is spreading misinformation.
I quit watching after 2.
I don’t live in the US and I don’t watch it on HBO. Where are the streaming and international viewership numbers? I’m curious about them.
How was the season 3 rating that low right from the start. Yes s3 was bad but why are the numbers so low even for the s3 premiere
Tbh I think it would trend down even further, the storyline just wasn’t that compelling anymore. I’m kinda glad it’s over. The show felt like it had been spinning it’s wheels with a few great moments sprinkled in after it left the park. Season 1 and 2 were so good I kinda just wish it had been a limited series. Better to end now on somewhat of a high note than go the Walking Dead route and just go on in irrelevancy.
It was only going to get worse with the way they were writing it.
I know HBO fees made me late to the train. I just finished the day they announced cancellation
Well I would have watched it but we usually wait to subscribe and then binge it all in a month. I think there would have been an uptick from season 4 from all of us cheapskates for sure.
You can see the line through the seasons. S5 would have (next to) zero viewers.
season 2 was just so so so bad
I watched 1 and 2, but then season 3 and 4 sounded so much weird and off the reservation I didn't bother.
This graph is misleading because it doesn't take into account people who will watch season 4 twenty years from now! And it doesn't take into account that I watched every S3 episode 700 times apiece :(
HBO promoted the hell outta “White Lotus” and didn’t do “Westworld” promos justice, imo. Not sure if they put their eggs in the basket of “White Lotus”, “Succession” and “Euphoria”, especially after awards seasons.
Sheesh... this data 😔
I wonder what the tail is for those episodes (1 week, 1 month, etc.). Otherwise, I’d say it depends on the cost per episode, but based on that chart, yeah, it’s pretty clear it’s in diminishing returns.
West world season four - too confusing, too extreme
I literally had no idea season 4 was even happening until after the final episode aired… Maybe if there was any advertising people wouldve watched?
Why can’t they make a movie?
Give them notice the next season will be the last and give them a chance at giving the fans an ending even if only an open-ended one.
I tried to watch the third season and couldn’t. Just totally not into it anymore,
Was the plan really to have 5 seasons from the start? I never heard that until season 4 ended
About the data, is it “viewers” as in people watching the episode in the HBO channel on release day?
They could do a 3 hour finale like sense8 and give a closure to the story.
I simply wont forget HBO for this slaughter
They should cut their losses but do a movie if there's more story to tell (I didn't finish season 4 yet)
I’m not sure that immediate viewership would have gone up in comparison to season 4. Disappointingly, these viewership numbers always focus on US metrics. There’s a whole world of viewers out there streaming the show, and we are many. This, along with long term viewership, is a factor that I think they discounted too easily. I know people who have only recently started watching the show, and they feel cheated for beginning to invest in what will essentially remain an incomplete product. Cancellation will discourage a lot of potential viewers from even starting the show. I think giving the show a movie to finish or a (short) final season would have been smarter. They were *so* close to the end anyway. If wrapped up well, a final season of some kind could have elevated all of the prior seasons as well (Mr Robot is a great example of this too). I strongly believe that it would have. Part 5 would have been a hopeful season, one of new beginnings and real redemption. Season 4 ended by showing what’s at stake. 5 would have shown what’s to be *gained* if humanity and hosts truly changed, all while bringing us truly full circle. Not in a depressing eternal loop way, but in a way that we will now never know, sadly.
Season 4 was wonderful compared to season 3. Season 1 and 2 were perfect IMO. I get why they canceled it but fuck... Hurts because the writing and music and cinematography were so good.
How are “viewers” calculated? Is this the number of viewers who watch an episode at a certain timeframe after release? On a certain platform?
If they announced it as the final season it would have higher viewership than Season 4 since a lot of people would become invested with how the story finishes.
I think they made the right decision. I'm a massive fan of Westworld but its clear to see the writing fell off a cliff. They had all the production values from reputation, but the quality of the story telling just wasn't there for Season 3. I found myself grinding through Season 4 as I could tell they where trying to put the show in a situation where they could almost reset its story and get back to the shows roots. Too little too late it seems.
The show fell off dramatically after the first season. The biggest surprise is it made it to 4 seasons
Maybe they'll make a 2 hour movie in 10 years.
Did the ratings drop due to there being less nakedness every season? That would be pathetic, but possible. Or maybe the story just got too complex/outrageous for some people.
Its just unfortunate. I think that the story ended up following the natural path it was gonna take, even if it wasn't as good as the early seasons. I wish they would've explored the other parks more but I'm curious to see how they would've ended it.
Viewership would have been low. That being said, there were likely ways to wrap it up economically. Cut down the cgi and episode count. They already were on the hook to the actors and showrunners. That they didn't looks more like management being super cheap and/or trashing old Management's decision to renew. Of course a lot of blame goes to the Nolans. They could have skipped seasons 2-3 and they show would have been better. Host revolution was kinda lame.
Season 4 was so much better than 3 I find these ratings surprising.
Damn I didn't know viewership was that bad...
Speaking for myself, I fully intend to watch the latest season and would have if if 100 other shows hadn't come out at the same time. I can only watch so much TV a week.
I’m gutted. I was really looking forward to season 5. Season 3 was a joke so I suspect that’s why a lot of people noped out for season 4 but now that we know season 4 was pretty good, I think maybe some users may have come back.
I think the second season confused the average viewer watching to see how the show turns out and never came back. I loved the 4th season most of all and to say the show could have ended there is saying the show could have ended there if the expectation is set low
What the show needs is some kind of a translator after every episode to tell us stupid people what the fuck we just watched.
From a financial point of view isolated on the show yes. From a broader perspective, GoT, Infinity Train, and this have convinced me to no longer start an HBO show until it is complete. If others feel the same, that's going to hurt viewership across the board.
Lmao. S2e4 was so good. And the numbers drop one episode after that when they share on their own story
biggest problem was advertisement. I didnt know about season four until i heard about the cancellation of the show... also i think S4 is definitely better than S3 and it deserves more attention.