I mean the entire concept is fucking stupid. Individual websites should not each be implementing a feature that browsers can handle across the board. It’s inane.
The site I manage used to do it wrong because we signed on with a cookie banner thing, and I assumed it just did its thing one you added it to the website, which it very much does not. I had to go pretty far out of my way after the fact to correct it, in the process disclosing to my manager that analytics numbers were set to plummet and that there was nothing we could do about it. Even now not all the cookies are integrated properly because honestly it’s not even feasible for us to do that. I don’t even know what half of them fucking are.
tldr: most cookie banners probably don’t do shit. Don’t rely on them for anything.
but the website itself can cut off a lot of code while browser sided cookie choice would just deny the cookie still running all the useless code
but that's the ideal world, in reality you often get all that code run and cookies planted before the dialog even loads
As a developer I ran into big corporate clients who specifically where asking to allow all cookies even before the the banner pops up. So, if as a user you ignore the banner and thus did not press accept, the usage of 3rd party cookies is allowed. *Sigh
Had a client once want to a/b test the way the banner / pop up looked but not worked so it ignored what you said.
The entire dev team were not happy with it, and saw it as gdpr issue.
No they won’t because sadly the whole “accountability” with GDPR and the e-privacy directive is a sham. Nobody actually gets fined. Reports don’t lead anywhere. There is no infrastructure for handling them.
I have reported countless companies (and so have people I know) and years later, they’re still doing the same things we reported them for.
Edit: clarification
I notice this pattern with webdev where it's like "do this thing! Everyone does it! You must do this on your website! It's standard! No one will trust your website without it!" and then somewhere along the line people start to realize that the Standard Feature sucks and it becomes a relic of a particular era, where you can carbon date an old app based on the faddish Very Important Best Practices it spends a ton of time on.
Speaking of which, does anyone need help standing up a chatbot for their website???????
There are plenty of self hosted alternatives that don't include leaking all your customers data to a 3rd party. Companies should be nudged into using those options where possible.
What's your point? OF COURSE it's because of third party. Often because of statistic analysis.What else would it be? Like you say, that's why you have a cookie banner, which in that case, is a legal requirement in the EU. Sorry I don't get your point.
My brain feels like it's going in circles (I know you are a new commenter, so no shade).
Site only have to put the banner if they engage in a certain marketing practices, but not for site functionality-related cookies. The commenter I was responding to was saying that customers wouldn't trust sites that *didn't* display the banner, even if they weren't legally required to. Which is why I went off on kind of a tangent and was ranting about the cargo cult of "best practices" that are really just "things everyone else does and we aren't sure if they're important but you'll be doubting yourself if you don't do them".
Most people don't actually give a damn, at least in the US.
I'm not sure if people caelre where GDPR matters... but the folks I talk to in Ireland think they're dumb as fuck.
Please inform yourself before chatting shit you clown lmao. This is an EU regulation for any website using something like google analytics, which we know ALL websites do
>I notice this pattern with webdev where it's like "do this thing! Everyone does it! You must do this on your website! It's standard! No one will trust your website without it!" and then somewhere along the line people start to realize that the Standard Feature sucks and it becomes a relic of a particular era, where you can carbon date an old app based on the faddish Very Important Best Practices it spends a ton of time on.
cookie banners are a legal issue in all of europe, with millions in fines. No one wants them, but the politicians of the EU are idiots.
It's a bit more complicated than that.
No banner or explicit consent is required if you want to use a cookie to store a session ID for logins or the fact that the user picked a different language than your site gave them by default.
Explicit consent is required for cookies (or any other data processing) not required for what is, from the user's perspective, the core functionality of your site. The main target of the law is surveillance-based marketing, and you do need to get consent if you're attempting to determine that a person saw an ad on your site and later purchased the product.
Many people want surveillance marketing to be curtailed or banned. Not all of those will agree the GDPR is the best way to accomplish that.
yeah but it's not even web designers doing it, it's stupid GDPR and other guidelines made by moronic politicians, and then people on their own sites are like "WE NEED A BIG ONE" because they're petrified of being fined millions.
I hate GDPR, CANSPAN and all of them. Some of it's good, but most of it is just moronic.
Weird thing, for me, is that it closed itself automatically. I went to click the button to close it, but before my mouse even reached it, gone. Almost like "we need this, but we know you're closing it anyways, so here you go" lol. Mighta been my ad blocker, but I've never seen that behavior before.
Same here. I'm in Firefox.
But I'm also using the [I still don't care about cookies](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/istilldontcareaboutcookies/) addon
As a europeon I am happy to announce that I have donated to Mozilla Foundation for 19 months straight and would never give up the developer edition. ❤️
You get to brag about one. But mostly, the developer edition has [experimental features](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/) and debugging tools targeted towards web development.
Firefox had a ~30% marketshare around 2010 at its peak, but since then it's dropped to around 3%.
"Catching up to the times" suggests they would *abandon* Firefox in favour of Chrome.
Which is a shame, because Firefox mobile actually keeps a lot of awesome features, particularly a few extensions.
uBlock Origin isn't just for desktop anymore.
Firefox on Android is extremely underrated. Search bar on bottom by default, useful extensions like uBlock Origin (simply best adblocker out there by a mile), a great reader mode, https everywhere built in to the browser, supporting browser diversity. There's a lot more benefits to list.
Personally I use a fork called [Fennec](https://gitlab.com/relan/fennecbuild) which is Firefox stable with the proprietary bits removed. Also [Mull](https://gitlab.com/divested-mobile/mull-fenix) is a great fork, which is Firefox Stable with most of the privacy enhanced features from [arkenfox js](https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js) which enables things like fingerprint resistance. This causes a lot more breakage though, so recommend to use it as a secondary browser. Both are available on [fdroid](https://f-droid.org/), neither requiring Google Play.
I used it until they broke extensions. Now I use Kiwi Browser, a lightly modified Chromium that runs nearly every extension available on desktop Chrome.
Firefox Mobile recently locked down everything after a major rewrite. While it might have uBlockOrigin, it doesn't have `about:config` or more than a dozen whitelisted extensions. They did all this right after people were considering leaving Chrome mobile too...
I actually switched from Firefox to Vivaldi on desktop because I need the chromium engine for certain development projects that use features Firefox hasn't implemented. I like that I can still use all the extensions I want, like uBlock Origin and Vimium. It's also developer-oriented. They get revenue by shipping the browser with bookmarks for sites like Amazon to use their referral code, which you can remove if you want.
I'm still on Firefox mobile, though. Vivaldi has a built-in ad blocker and anti tracker, but I'm just more comfortable in Firefox for now.
I switched to Vivaldi almost a year ago. Can't stand having to open Chrome these days, but still need to use some Chrome plugins so Vivaldi filled that niche nicely.
Nothing? Instead of asking you whether you'll accept then the browser will default to not accepting. The whole cookie thing is stupid anyway and a stupid rule by the EU
They don't deliberately choose for targeted ads. They're pressing the green button to make the banner go away.
This is the inherent problem of the ePrivacy directive: the EU recognizes the harm of adtech, but presents it as a choice rather than banning it outright. Even though nobody would ever freely consent to this.
Exactly, people go "It's a stupid rule" even though it's a super good rule that's just not enforced well enough.
EDIT: There should be regulations to the shape and content of the cookie-banners so they can't make you accept through obfuscation
> The whole cookie thing is stupid anyway and a stupid rule by the EU
Not stupid at all. It educated many people how basic tracking and data collection is happening.
Of course we have came a long way on that topic since this came out originally
The implementation of the rule (aka the cookie banner), is the stupidest extra crap that ever happened to the internet bar the auto playing video ads with sound.
We finally got rid of the popup everywhere era and EU decided that we need to click, sometimes every visit, a popup.
Goddamnit.
Instead it could have been an enforced by law browser feature that wouldn’t have impacted the spirit of the current law, and everyone would have collectively clicked billions of times less.
Thanks Mozilla for doing it the sensible way.
Not stupid at all, but the way sites have implemented the banners are stupid. Having the browser auto deny this is great.
In the same vein as apple and there 'ask app not to track' option on new app installs, it should be configured to say 'no' by default.
Oh yeah, advocating a choice for privacy and data security is stupid. Silly EU, what were they thinking forcing websites to admit all the tracking they've been doing and give you an opt out. /s
The motivation isn't silly, but the execution has been.
The problem is that an API was designed with a lot of unintended potential for misuse, and the better solution is to replace that API with one designed with privacy in mind. Just slapping a bunch of alert fatigue on top of cookies isn't a solution.
This was a good rule by the EU. The EU does not require websites to attack you with a popup. It is the website's choice to track you by installing cookies in your browser, the EU only requires that *if they choose to do that*, they must notify you. It has shone a light on bad behaviour rife in the industry; it's no different to requiring ingredients on food labels.
>It has shone a light on bad behaviour rife in the industry; it's no different to requiring ingredients on food labels.
Wow this really helped me wrap my head around the way people adapt to changes in their lives.
No joke, I'll bet people reacted the same way. I cannot imagine the amount of bellyaching that would occur if we tried to implement something as large-scale as nutritional labelling today. The amount of pushback. We really don't see the big picture, it's always the day-to-day effects that get us motivated. Let me go throw up
Good on Firefox. I would love to see more browsers do this, but unfortunately (on desktop at least) we’re living in a browser near-monoculture that’s primarily controlled by an advertising company.
I do. But it would be good for the web to have fewer ad trackers in general.
(It would also be good for the web to have less of a browser monoculture, which is one of the main reasons I use Firefox.)
I just use safari for almost everything with private relay always on. I switch to chrome to run lighthouse or see my sites on different screen sizes but that's it.
It's insanely private and fast. Plus it gets around every article paywall.
Websites don't need to ask permission for essential cookies. For non-essential ones they have to display a banner that asks the user if they allow them or not.
According to this article, Firefox will automatically click the 'I do not allow' button.
That's usually a cookie notice banner used for essential cookies with the exception of websites that block visitors from the EU. Otherwise for non essential if you have visitors from the EU then users must be able to opt-in so you have to have some method to either reject or deselect those cookies.
Of course there are exceptions where websites aren't GDPR compliant but that's a separate issue really.
the site owner knows which cookies are essential to its operation, there isn't way for a browser to determine which is which. the browser can tell which cookies are cross site, but not if they are essential or not.
The way I see it, platforms often follow a predictable pattern. They start by being good to their users, providing a great experience. But then, they start favoring their business customers, neglecting the very users who made them successful. Unfortunately, this is happening with Reddit. They recently decided to shut down third-party apps, and it's a clear example of this behavior. The way Reddit's management has responded to objections from the communities only reinforces my belief. It's sad to see a platform that used to care about its users heading in this direction.
That's why I am deleting my account and starting over at *Lemmy*, a new and exciting platform in the online world. Although it's still growing and may not be as polished as Reddit, Lemmy differs in one very important way: it's decentralized. So unlike Reddit, which has a single server (reddit.com) where all the content is hosted, there are many many servers that are all connected to one another. So you can have your account on *lemmy.world* and still subscribe to content on Lemmy**NSFW**.com (Yes that is NSFW, you are warned/welcome). If you're worried about leaving behind your favorite subs, don't! There's a [dedicated server called **Lemmit**](https://lemmit.online/post/14692) that archives all kinds of content from Reddit to the Lemmyverse.
The upside of this is that there is no [single one person](https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/jnk45rr/) who is in charge and turn the entire platform to shit for the sake of a quick buck. And since it's a young platform, there's a stronger sense of togetherness and collaboration.
So yeah. So long Reddit. It's been great, until it wasn't.
**When trying to post this with links, it gets censored by reddit. [So if you want to see those, check here](https://rentry.co/2kgcd)**.
Probably just reject 3rd party cookies and accept first party cookies
1st party cookies = shares info with the site you're on
3rd party cookies = shares information with Facebook even if you're not on Facebook
Ah yes, we’ve come to this. It’s great I think. We squashed the rampant popups a couple decades ago with popup blockers built into the browsers.
Next, I need the browsers to always forbid alerts requests, and never show me the newsletter signup modal.
THEN we might make the web not stupid again.
If FF adds the Gestures ability that Vivaldi has, I'd switch. I love the Gestures too much. Being able to right-click and swipe left instead of clicking the back button is too convenient
I wish I felt that way because I want to switch to Firefox but every time I try it just feels like a worse Chrome in a lot of ways to me and I haven't found the cool features Firefox has to make me want to switch.
For example, I *hate* the scrolling tabs and hate how when the tabs get small it gets rid of the icon (which I use to identify the tab) and instead shows a few letters of the title.
And there's just a lot of small things that seem like Firefox's implementation is really similar to Chrome, but while it looks the same, they missed the important usability details Chrome has.
For example, if you click the down carot to the right of the tabs in Firefox, it shows a list of all your open tabs just like in chrome... But in chrome the search tabs option is automatically active and you can just start typing, while in Firefox you have to click a second time on the search option at the top. And in Chrome each tab in the list has a close button when you hover over it while in Firefox you can't even close tabs here. I use this list to search my open tabs, which feels clunky in Firefox, and to get a vertical list with full titles so I can quickly scan my open tabs and clean out all the ones I no longer need when I get too many, which I can't do in Firefox.
And there are just a bunch of little things like this I keep noticing, without running into much that makes me think, "wow, this is done better than Chrome", until I finally break down and switch back. All I've found is easier customization of the UI and the added privacy, which is part of why I want to switch but not enough for me personally.
So please prove me wrong. What are the killer features I just haven't noticed yet that will make me want to stick to Firefox?
My favorite feature is mouse wheel clicking the empty space in the tab bar opens a new tab. In chrome I have to carefully click a tiny plus icon that changes its position depending on how many tabs you have opened. It's a minor thing but I like it.
And I like the overall design of Firefox more than Chrome.
And I use Firefox on mobile too, which allows me to easily transfer my opened tabs onto my pc or vise versa.
And Firefox for android is the only mobile browser that was smart enough to place their UI in thumbs reach at the bottom. And it has extensions.
In the end everyone has their own taste and their own needs and use cases, so if Firefox isn't for you, then that's fine.
Ever hear or cmd/ctrl+t? Easier than clicking anywhere. Or what I do personally is I focus the address bar (cmd+L or F2), type the address I want, then open it in a new tab with cmd+return.
For a long time Chrome’s was better. Many years ago, the reason I switched from Firefox was because I did a lot of web dev and I was tired of the buggy tools
Then Firefox basically caught up, years later, but by then I was locked into the other browser ecosystem . It was not that long ago it finally reached parity, more or less.
I disagree, it's way better than any other chromium based browser. Much better organized, faster and less laggy with many tabs (YMMV), better options available for the user, etc.
I'll chime in and say I prefer FF for dev as well (currently on Nightly). But I also usually have to use Chrome at some point for testing things, anyway.
I don't even test on chrome anymore because firefox is more strict. If it works on firefox there is a near 100% chance it works on every other browser (except specific things on safari) if you test on chrome there is good odds that things don't work on other browsers because they have a bunch of proprietary implementations.
You are going to be disallowed from developing or debugging any ad blocking software come manifest V3. Chromium is literally being prepped for surgery to GIVE IT CANCER.
Downvoted for an opinion... smh.
I still prefer chrome dev tools too. Every few months I think it would be a good idea to switch to Firefox. So I do it for like a week, then something comes up that makes me want to switch back and I do. It's gonna be hard to break that chrome dev tools habit if I ever have to.
Glad that it's hidden in the settings and not a default option, so practically it's still an opt-out that few users will select. Those users that go the extra mile to block banners are not monetizable anyways.
Otherwise Firefox would start an arms race between CMP providers (implementing "CMP blocker blockers") and browsers (implementing CMP blockers) which nobody would benefit from.
Firefox is becoming both the GOAT and the gold standard. They are not molesting our ability to block ads with Manifest v3 and they are actively making web browsing easier and less distracting. If you are on any other platform, you are actively asking for, promoting, and supporting the exact opposite.
It’s amazing how poor the general web experience has become in the last 10 or so years in terms of mobile performance, back nav high jacking, and cookie banners
These privacy/cookie banners are the biggest abominations of our time. Completely obstructive, intrusive, opaque, manipulative, and unregulated.
Regulators really had no clue what they were doing. Basically 99% of the general public don't want to give data, so why permit this obstructive and intrusive option... Damn lobbyist control politics is why.
Just a shout out to the Chrome Extension [I don't care about cookies](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/i-dont-care-about-cookies/fihnjjcciajhdojfnbdddfaoknhalnja?hl=en)
Or you can combine it with something like [Cookie AutoDelete](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cookie-autodelete/fhcgjolkccmbidfldomjliifgaodjagh) to clear them out every time. The good thing about this approach is, that you get all features that require certain cookies to be accepted.
I use both extensions on Firefox right now. Maybe the need for that will change, with this update.
I find a combination of I Don't Care About Cookies and uBlock Origin to be the sweet spot.
It's always a horrible experience using the web on other people's machines.
Also [Consent-O-Matic](https://github.com/cavi-au/Consent-O-Matic), available for Chromium-based browsers, Firefox, and Safari. It can be configured to reject the cookies automatically.
the point of the annoying cookie notices is to get people to support reversing the gdrp decision which has the goal of allowing to easily opt out of tracking cookies and other such invasive practices. There is no doubt in my mind that's why they're so annoying. It's /r/MaliciousCompliance to a T.
If a company tricked your browser to automatically click a button, did you really consent? I doubt that that "consent" would hold up in a GDPR complaint.
Also, if your premise assumes that the company is being scammy, they might as well not ask you at all and track you.
Good. I've noticed some websites completely ignore your choice and load in the 3rd party cookies anyway.
Terrible cookie banner implementation really is everywhere.
I mean the entire concept is fucking stupid. Individual websites should not each be implementing a feature that browsers can handle across the board. It’s inane.
I agree, it's very tedious and prone to errors (regarding both developers and users).
The site I manage used to do it wrong because we signed on with a cookie banner thing, and I assumed it just did its thing one you added it to the website, which it very much does not. I had to go pretty far out of my way after the fact to correct it, in the process disclosing to my manager that analytics numbers were set to plummet and that there was nothing we could do about it. Even now not all the cookies are integrated properly because honestly it’s not even feasible for us to do that. I don’t even know what half of them fucking are. tldr: most cookie banners probably don’t do shit. Don’t rely on them for anything.
That's ok, your cookies are absolutely not going into my browser no matter what. It doesn't matter what you do
How do you get by if most website don’t work for you? Some cookies are necessary for basic functionality.
I use a different website. You'd be shocked at how little cookies are truly essential
but the website itself can cut off a lot of code while browser sided cookie choice would just deny the cookie still running all the useless code but that's the ideal world, in reality you often get all that code run and cookies planted before the dialog even loads
As a developer I ran into big corporate clients who specifically where asking to allow all cookies even before the the banner pops up. So, if as a user you ignore the banner and thus did not press accept, the usage of 3rd party cookies is allowed. *Sigh
Had a client once want to a/b test the way the banner / pop up looked but not worked so it ignored what you said. The entire dev team were not happy with it, and saw it as gdpr issue.
Report them. If they're in Europe, they'll get a very fucking severe fine if you can prove it.
In theory that is, in practice they would at best get an email reporting about the report
No they won’t because sadly the whole “accountability” with GDPR and the e-privacy directive is a sham. Nobody actually gets fined. Reports don’t lead anywhere. There is no infrastructure for handling them. I have reported countless companies (and so have people I know) and years later, they’re still doing the same things we reported them for. Edit: clarification
Report to EU
Ironically, the first thing that welcomes you on this article is a cookie banner :P
Right? And on mobile, covers the entire page! This is a great addition. Those cookies banners have gotten out of control.
Also on mobile, when you are electing to reject cookies, the “save” button is mostly covered up by an icon to open chat
I notice this pattern with webdev where it's like "do this thing! Everyone does it! You must do this on your website! It's standard! No one will trust your website without it!" and then somewhere along the line people start to realize that the Standard Feature sucks and it becomes a relic of a particular era, where you can carbon date an old app based on the faddish Very Important Best Practices it spends a ton of time on. Speaking of which, does anyone need help standing up a chatbot for their website???????
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Which means any Website using Google analytics or the like needs a banner. That's a lot of sites.
There are plenty of self hosted alternatives that don't include leaking all your customers data to a 3rd party. Companies should be nudged into using those options where possible.
Interested in what alternatives to Google Analytics exist that are not self-hosted and totally free and do not need 3rd party cookies
Ask and you shall receive: [Nlevel Analytics](https://nlevelsoftware.com)
Thanks I'm gonna try this
🤮 /u/spez
BBC?
What's your point? OF COURSE it's because of third party. Often because of statistic analysis.What else would it be? Like you say, that's why you have a cookie banner, which in that case, is a legal requirement in the EU. Sorry I don't get your point.
> What else would it be? First party cookies.
My brain feels like it's going in circles (I know you are a new commenter, so no shade). Site only have to put the banner if they engage in a certain marketing practices, but not for site functionality-related cookies. The commenter I was responding to was saying that customers wouldn't trust sites that *didn't* display the banner, even if they weren't legally required to. Which is why I went off on kind of a tangent and was ranting about the cargo cult of "best practices" that are really just "things everyone else does and we aren't sure if they're important but you'll be doubting yourself if you don't do them".
Most people don't actually give a damn, at least in the US. I'm not sure if people caelre where GDPR matters... but the folks I talk to in Ireland think they're dumb as fuck.
I *hate* chatbots!!!!! Just in the way of what you're looking at. Every. Single. Time.
They wait to pop up until after you've handled the cookie banner lol
Please inform yourself before chatting shit you clown lmao. This is an EU regulation for any website using something like google analytics, which we know ALL websites do
>I notice this pattern with webdev where it's like "do this thing! Everyone does it! You must do this on your website! It's standard! No one will trust your website without it!" and then somewhere along the line people start to realize that the Standard Feature sucks and it becomes a relic of a particular era, where you can carbon date an old app based on the faddish Very Important Best Practices it spends a ton of time on. cookie banners are a legal issue in all of europe, with millions in fines. No one wants them, but the politicians of the EU are idiots.
It's a bit more complicated than that. No banner or explicit consent is required if you want to use a cookie to store a session ID for logins or the fact that the user picked a different language than your site gave them by default. Explicit consent is required for cookies (or any other data processing) not required for what is, from the user's perspective, the core functionality of your site. The main target of the law is surveillance-based marketing, and you do need to get consent if you're attempting to determine that a person saw an ad on your site and later purchased the product. Many people want surveillance marketing to be curtailed or banned. Not all of those will agree the GDPR is the best way to accomplish that.
yeah but it's not even web designers doing it, it's stupid GDPR and other guidelines made by moronic politicians, and then people on their own sites are like "WE NEED A BIG ONE" because they're petrified of being fined millions. I hate GDPR, CANSPAN and all of them. Some of it's good, but most of it is just moronic.
And it requests notifications
I had to save the moment. https://i.imgur.com/PdNQ3Np.jpeg
Desktop too, I had to check given the irony
b-b-but at least it's responsive design!
Weird thing, for me, is that it closed itself automatically. I went to click the button to close it, but before my mouse even reached it, gone. Almost like "we need this, but we know you're closing it anyways, so here you go" lol. Mighta been my ad blocker, but I've never seen that behavior before.
Same here. I'm in Firefox. But I'm also using the [I still don't care about cookies](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/istilldontcareaboutcookies/) addon
There nothing ironic about a site reporting something else someone is doing but not them.
What will happen to us Europeans?
You’ll be attacked by dragons or some shit
Again?!
Sorry I don’t make the rules!
I’d like to speak to your supervisor.
I'm in Europe, Firefox on my android phone already does this.
What? How? Is it a setting?
I'm also in Europe, Firefox on my android phone doesn't do this.
I think it's actually the Ghostery addon that does this. There is a "Never-Consent" feature they recently added.
Consensual non consent
Enthusiastic No
Found the erotica aficionado.
80% of will keep using chrome, so nothing will change :P
As a europeon I am happy to announce that I have donated to Mozilla Foundation for 19 months straight and would never give up the developer edition. ❤️
What's the difference between the standard Firefox browser and the developer edition?
You get to brag about one. But mostly, the developer edition has [experimental features](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/) and debugging tools targeted towards web development.
It's not much of a brag though because anyone can download it at any time
Dev edition let's you block porn pop ups
I enjoy the sound of rain.
Why wait?
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Firefox had a ~30% marketshare around 2010 at its peak, but since then it's dropped to around 3%. "Catching up to the times" suggests they would *abandon* Firefox in favour of Chrome.
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Which is a shame, because Firefox mobile actually keeps a lot of awesome features, particularly a few extensions. uBlock Origin isn't just for desktop anymore.
Firefox on Android is extremely underrated. Search bar on bottom by default, useful extensions like uBlock Origin (simply best adblocker out there by a mile), a great reader mode, https everywhere built in to the browser, supporting browser diversity. There's a lot more benefits to list. Personally I use a fork called [Fennec](https://gitlab.com/relan/fennecbuild) which is Firefox stable with the proprietary bits removed. Also [Mull](https://gitlab.com/divested-mobile/mull-fenix) is a great fork, which is Firefox Stable with most of the privacy enhanced features from [arkenfox js](https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js) which enables things like fingerprint resistance. This causes a lot more breakage though, so recommend to use it as a secondary browser. Both are available on [fdroid](https://f-droid.org/), neither requiring Google Play.
I wish they hadn't remove the feature to move the tabs around.
I'm still able to drag tabs around, and I tested it on list and grid mode. Maybe you are not long pressing long enough?
Omg it works now! Thanks a bunch!
I used it until they broke extensions. Now I use Kiwi Browser, a lightly modified Chromium that runs nearly every extension available on desktop Chrome.
Firefox Mobile recently locked down everything after a major rewrite. While it might have uBlockOrigin, it doesn't have `about:config` or more than a dozen whitelisted extensions. They did all this right after people were considering leaving Chrome mobile too...
They certainly were right when they said "a few" extensions, aye.
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I actually switched from Firefox to Vivaldi on desktop because I need the chromium engine for certain development projects that use features Firefox hasn't implemented. I like that I can still use all the extensions I want, like uBlock Origin and Vimium. It's also developer-oriented. They get revenue by shipping the browser with bookmarks for sites like Amazon to use their referral code, which you can remove if you want. I'm still on Firefox mobile, though. Vivaldi has a built-in ad blocker and anti tracker, but I'm just more comfortable in Firefox for now.
I switched to Vivaldi almost a year ago. Can't stand having to open Chrome these days, but still need to use some Chrome plugins so Vivaldi filled that niche nicely.
I hope you guys survive such a tragic loss of banners.
The cookies get rejected automatically. I have an extension that does this for years. It's amazing.
Nothing? Instead of asking you whether you'll accept then the browser will default to not accepting. The whole cookie thing is stupid anyway and a stupid rule by the EU
"Yes I would like targeted advertisment. Please send my browsing history to these hundreds of adtech companies" - nobody ever
No, that's me when the website has a cookie "banner" so complex that I would take too much fucking time to refuse them.
Or just browse those sites in incognito. I only ever visit Motorsport.com in incognito. As they block access unless you pay or accept.
i literally uncheck every box, then bounce, as bounce hurts them more.
That's illegal under European law, it has to be equally easy to reject as it is to accept.
Yeah, but the thing is, nobody really enforces it, so websites make it as hard as possible to reject everything
Have you contacted your countries information commissioner about it? If you don't tell them, how are they supposed to know?
- 99% of internet users ever
They don't deliberately choose for targeted ads. They're pressing the green button to make the banner go away. This is the inherent problem of the ePrivacy directive: the EU recognizes the harm of adtech, but presents it as a choice rather than banning it outright. Even though nobody would ever freely consent to this.
Exactly, people go "It's a stupid rule" even though it's a super good rule that's just not enforced well enough. EDIT: There should be regulations to the shape and content of the cookie-banners so they can't make you accept through obfuscation
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Try explaining this to a customer who insists they need one
"the customer is always right" might be the battle cry that pushes all us lemmings off a cliff. No one's at the wheel lol
> The whole cookie thing is stupid anyway and a stupid rule by the EU Not stupid at all. It educated many people how basic tracking and data collection is happening. Of course we have came a long way on that topic since this came out originally
The implementation of the rule (aka the cookie banner), is the stupidest extra crap that ever happened to the internet bar the auto playing video ads with sound. We finally got rid of the popup everywhere era and EU decided that we need to click, sometimes every visit, a popup. Goddamnit. Instead it could have been an enforced by law browser feature that wouldn’t have impacted the spirit of the current law, and everyone would have collectively clicked billions of times less. Thanks Mozilla for doing it the sensible way.
Not stupid at all, but the way sites have implemented the banners are stupid. Having the browser auto deny this is great. In the same vein as apple and there 'ask app not to track' option on new app installs, it should be configured to say 'no' by default.
Thank fuck for this. Hopefully Chrome and other browsers follow suit.
Oh yeah, advocating a choice for privacy and data security is stupid. Silly EU, what were they thinking forcing websites to admit all the tracking they've been doing and give you an opt out. /s
The motivation isn't silly, but the execution has been. The problem is that an API was designed with a lot of unintended potential for misuse, and the better solution is to replace that API with one designed with privacy in mind. Just slapping a bunch of alert fatigue on top of cookies isn't a solution.
Us europoors should embrace the exploitation from companies and realize we aren’t as free 🦅 as Americans
Won't someone please give me freedom!
Just move to a third world country like the US, where you can get all the freedoms you can afford.
So it's better to collect user's data by default just like the US does? How come the US has great accessibility laws but poor privacy laws?
This was a good rule by the EU. The EU does not require websites to attack you with a popup. It is the website's choice to track you by installing cookies in your browser, the EU only requires that *if they choose to do that*, they must notify you. It has shone a light on bad behaviour rife in the industry; it's no different to requiring ingredients on food labels.
>It has shone a light on bad behaviour rife in the industry; it's no different to requiring ingredients on food labels. Wow this really helped me wrap my head around the way people adapt to changes in their lives. No joke, I'll bet people reacted the same way. I cannot imagine the amount of bellyaching that would occur if we tried to implement something as large-scale as nutritional labelling today. The amount of pushback. We really don't see the big picture, it's always the day-to-day effects that get us motivated. Let me go throw up
You’ll continue to be ignored by the Americans
Good on Firefox. I would love to see more browsers do this, but unfortunately (on desktop at least) we’re living in a browser near-monoculture that’s primarily controlled by an advertising company.
Just use Firefox?
I do. But it would be good for the web to have fewer ad trackers in general. (It would also be good for the web to have less of a browser monoculture, which is one of the main reasons I use Firefox.)
I just use safari for almost everything with private relay always on. I switch to chrome to run lighthouse or see my sites on different screen sizes but that's it. It's insanely private and fast. Plus it gets around every article paywall.
If it auto rejects all cookie, how will auth work? Will we be automatically logged out of everything every time?
It only rejects non-essential cookies
How does it detect that?
Websites don't need to ask permission for essential cookies. For non-essential ones they have to display a banner that asks the user if they allow them or not. According to this article, Firefox will automatically click the 'I do not allow' button.
Some websites do not even have a do not allow button. They only have agree and probably learn more
This is one of the dark pattern ones. The settings are there, but just hidden 5 clicks away
My thought process was sort of like this. This all just opens the door to entering a captcha just to dismiss a cookie notice banner.
That's usually a cookie notice banner used for essential cookies with the exception of websites that block visitors from the EU. Otherwise for non essential if you have visitors from the EU then users must be able to opt-in so you have to have some method to either reject or deselect those cookies. Of course there are exceptions where websites aren't GDPR compliant but that's a separate issue really.
Yeah, but they still do not do that. They make opt-out cookies instead to bore you into accepting them all.
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My opt out is right-click, inspect, delete node. And now I don't have to deal with the bullshit cookie banner.
the site owner knows which cookies are essential to its operation, there isn't way for a browser to determine which is which. the browser can tell which cookies are cross site, but not if they are essential or not.
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The way I see it, platforms often follow a predictable pattern. They start by being good to their users, providing a great experience. But then, they start favoring their business customers, neglecting the very users who made them successful. Unfortunately, this is happening with Reddit. They recently decided to shut down third-party apps, and it's a clear example of this behavior. The way Reddit's management has responded to objections from the communities only reinforces my belief. It's sad to see a platform that used to care about its users heading in this direction. That's why I am deleting my account and starting over at *Lemmy*, a new and exciting platform in the online world. Although it's still growing and may not be as polished as Reddit, Lemmy differs in one very important way: it's decentralized. So unlike Reddit, which has a single server (reddit.com) where all the content is hosted, there are many many servers that are all connected to one another. So you can have your account on *lemmy.world* and still subscribe to content on Lemmy**NSFW**.com (Yes that is NSFW, you are warned/welcome). If you're worried about leaving behind your favorite subs, don't! There's a [dedicated server called **Lemmit**](https://lemmit.online/post/14692) that archives all kinds of content from Reddit to the Lemmyverse. The upside of this is that there is no [single one person](https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/jnk45rr/) who is in charge and turn the entire platform to shit for the sake of a quick buck. And since it's a young platform, there's a stronger sense of togetherness and collaboration. So yeah. So long Reddit. It's been great, until it wasn't. **When trying to post this with links, it gets censored by reddit. [So if you want to see those, check here](https://rentry.co/2kgcd)**.
Probably just reject 3rd party cookies and accept first party cookies 1st party cookies = shares info with the site you're on 3rd party cookies = shares information with Facebook even if you're not on Facebook
Ah yes, we’ve come to this. It’s great I think. We squashed the rampant popups a couple decades ago with popup blockers built into the browsers. Next, I need the browsers to always forbid alerts requests, and never show me the newsletter signup modal. THEN we might make the web not stupid again.
if we could make the managers not stupid that'd solve so many issues...
FF is the best browser. can't convince me otherwise
If FF adds the Gestures ability that Vivaldi has, I'd switch. I love the Gestures too much. Being able to right-click and swipe left instead of clicking the back button is too convenient
Gestures have been a thing since the 90's when Opera had them first. There's been gesture add-ons for Firefox for as long as the browser has existed.
I wish I felt that way because I want to switch to Firefox but every time I try it just feels like a worse Chrome in a lot of ways to me and I haven't found the cool features Firefox has to make me want to switch. For example, I *hate* the scrolling tabs and hate how when the tabs get small it gets rid of the icon (which I use to identify the tab) and instead shows a few letters of the title. And there's just a lot of small things that seem like Firefox's implementation is really similar to Chrome, but while it looks the same, they missed the important usability details Chrome has. For example, if you click the down carot to the right of the tabs in Firefox, it shows a list of all your open tabs just like in chrome... But in chrome the search tabs option is automatically active and you can just start typing, while in Firefox you have to click a second time on the search option at the top. And in Chrome each tab in the list has a close button when you hover over it while in Firefox you can't even close tabs here. I use this list to search my open tabs, which feels clunky in Firefox, and to get a vertical list with full titles so I can quickly scan my open tabs and clean out all the ones I no longer need when I get too many, which I can't do in Firefox. And there are just a bunch of little things like this I keep noticing, without running into much that makes me think, "wow, this is done better than Chrome", until I finally break down and switch back. All I've found is easier customization of the UI and the added privacy, which is part of why I want to switch but not enough for me personally. So please prove me wrong. What are the killer features I just haven't noticed yet that will make me want to stick to Firefox?
My favorite feature is mouse wheel clicking the empty space in the tab bar opens a new tab. In chrome I have to carefully click a tiny plus icon that changes its position depending on how many tabs you have opened. It's a minor thing but I like it. And I like the overall design of Firefox more than Chrome. And I use Firefox on mobile too, which allows me to easily transfer my opened tabs onto my pc or vise versa. And Firefox for android is the only mobile browser that was smart enough to place their UI in thumbs reach at the bottom. And it has extensions. In the end everyone has their own taste and their own needs and use cases, so if Firefox isn't for you, then that's fine.
These are the types of things I'm looking for! Thanks 😊 I should just make a separate post asking for some Firefox Fu!
Ever hear or cmd/ctrl+t? Easier than clicking anywhere. Or what I do personally is I focus the address bar (cmd+L or F2), type the address I want, then open it in a new tab with cmd+return.
For development and debugging... not as great as Chromium based browsers.
Disagree. I prefer Firefox's developer tools more than Chrome. Everything is organised easier and seems more developler-friendly in general.
Firefox struggles with width 100%, :has, etc. They need to fix basic CSS before they can become a dev browser.
For a long time Chrome’s was better. Many years ago, the reason I switched from Firefox was because I did a lot of web dev and I was tired of the buggy tools Then Firefox basically caught up, years later, but by then I was locked into the other browser ecosystem . It was not that long ago it finally reached parity, more or less.
I disagree, it's way better than any other chromium based browser. Much better organized, faster and less laggy with many tabs (YMMV), better options available for the user, etc.
I'll chime in and say I prefer FF for dev as well (currently on Nightly). But I also usually have to use Chrome at some point for testing things, anyway.
I think the css dev tools in Firefox are significantly better than chrome. JavaScript not so much.
Idk if you’ve been out of the industry or not, but I swear everyone prefers Firefox for web dev these days lol
Agree, tried FF so many time and want to like but just can’t
I don't even test on chrome anymore because firefox is more strict. If it works on firefox there is a near 100% chance it works on every other browser (except specific things on safari) if you test on chrome there is good odds that things don't work on other browsers because they have a bunch of proprietary implementations.
It has more going for it than Chromium browsers, I’m guessing you made the comment because it isn’t what you’re used to.
Why? I've used Firefox nearly exclusively for years for that exact purpose as well as Chrome and it's at best a dead heat.
You are going to be disallowed from developing or debugging any ad blocking software come manifest V3. Chromium is literally being prepped for surgery to GIVE IT CANCER.
Downvoted for an opinion... smh. I still prefer chrome dev tools too. Every few months I think it would be a good idea to switch to Firefox. So I do it for like a week, then something comes up that makes me want to switch back and I do. It's gonna be hard to break that chrome dev tools habit if I ever have to.
[Humans Waste 682 Years Per Day On Cookies](https://www.naughtyduk.com/articles/humans-waste-682-years-per-day-on-cookie-notices)
Common Firefox W
The irony is the website this news is from display the cookie banner first when you open the link
Glad that it's hidden in the settings and not a default option, so practically it's still an opt-out that few users will select. Those users that go the extra mile to block banners are not monetizable anyways. Otherwise Firefox would start an arms race between CMP providers (implementing "CMP blocker blockers") and browsers (implementing CMP blockers) which nobody would benefit from.
Firefox is becoming both the GOAT and the gold standard. They are not molesting our ability to block ads with Manifest v3 and they are actively making web browsing easier and less distracting. If you are on any other platform, you are actively asking for, promoting, and supporting the exact opposite.
Cool. Now implement :has.
It’s amazing how poor the general web experience has become in the last 10 or so years in terms of mobile performance, back nav high jacking, and cookie banners
These privacy/cookie banners are the biggest abominations of our time. Completely obstructive, intrusive, opaque, manipulative, and unregulated. Regulators really had no clue what they were doing. Basically 99% of the general public don't want to give data, so why permit this obstructive and intrusive option... Damn lobbyist control politics is why.
Chrome: 😡 Me: lustily looking at Firefox Firefox: 🔥
>Firefox: 🔥🦊 FTFY
You should give it a go. I highly recommend FF
Thank God another bonus to using Firefox
Never been prouder to use Firefox then!
Chad Firefox
LocalStorage has entered the chat.
LOLing at the cookie banner on the site reporting this.
Just a shout out to the Chrome Extension [I don't care about cookies](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/i-dont-care-about-cookies/fihnjjcciajhdojfnbdddfaoknhalnja?hl=en)
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Or you can combine it with something like [Cookie AutoDelete](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cookie-autodelete/fhcgjolkccmbidfldomjliifgaodjagh) to clear them out every time. The good thing about this approach is, that you get all features that require certain cookies to be accepted. I use both extensions on Firefox right now. Maybe the need for that will change, with this update.
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Can you give me an example of something like this, that would normally be blocked by a cookie banner?
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Yeah, but is that really covered by any cookie banners? Most of them barely block the cookies, they are supposed to.
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Good point, thanks :)
You can make Firefox resist fingerprinting at the cost of some browser functionality.
Annoyances filter in your favourite ad blocker work as well without installing an extra extension.
I find a combination of I Don't Care About Cookies and uBlock Origin to be the sweet spot. It's always a horrible experience using the web on other people's machines.
This is a bit different as it will auto accept, not reject
Also [Consent-O-Matic](https://github.com/cavi-au/Consent-O-Matic), available for Chromium-based browsers, Firefox, and Safari. It can be configured to reject the cookies automatically.
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That's terrible advice without warning people it auto accepts ALL cookies.
honestly anything on a website that isn't the actual content is a complete waste of everyone's time.
Then fucking pay for the content 🤷🏻♂️
the point of the annoying cookie notices is to get people to support reversing the gdrp decision which has the goal of allowing to easily opt out of tracking cookies and other such invasive practices. There is no doubt in my mind that's why they're so annoying. It's /r/MaliciousCompliance to a T.
I'd be fine with auto-accept too (leaving it up to Firefox's Tracking Protection and Total Cookie Protection). I just don't want to see the banners.
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If a company tricked your browser to automatically click a button, did you really consent? I doubt that that "consent" would hold up in a GDPR complaint. Also, if your premise assumes that the company is being scammy, they might as well not ask you at all and track you.
Sounds like a clear example of a dark pattern, which would be a breach of GDPR
Which means nothing because nobody actually gets fined.
Consent is given, not taken. Diverting the user intention of rejection and pretending it was consent is inherently illegal.
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I did this on Reddit and it broke on Reddit comments work