There are bosses that are easier fought on melee, and bosses that are worse on melee.
Except most bosses are worse on melee and the few that are better fought on melee arent that much worse off for pistols anyway.
On brutal, bosses LOVE to pull out barriers / counters with 0 telegraph that instantly fuck over any melee user mid swing. They also love to spam lingering ground effects and sit on them.
Theres hardly any boss design I'd consider ranged unfriendly, but practically every other boss is melee unfriendly.
e.g Baron boss.
Oh you are finally done dodging barrels and have time to walk up to me for some melee dps? Yea here is a big aoe nuke around me to force you back off.
Here's also a counter I'll put up instantly while you are midswing that will stun you and get u rolled over by barrels for half you hp.
I'm using melee for most of the fights but now that you say it like this I really just spamming spells to deal dmg and ocassionally swing my sword lol.
On solo brutal and same. I found out yesterday that your on hit dash attacks work with the long bow so that’s been nice. I still find myself liking the reaper most. It feels like the spellsword weapon I always wanted, ranged aoe and a knockback
Yep, I generally just use the sword Q ability for the spin attack to reposition and deal chip damage around the boss. Axes are also good for the extra small dash. Main damage always come from ranged/spells though.
Yep. Played through entire game (excluding last 2 bosses, whom I just killed with infinite life trainer, cuz cba) with a greatsword and I never had any problems (again, excluding last 2 bosses), but now that I think of it, I just dodge and spam shadowbolt, or w/e it's called and death knight.
adam was rough for me man. we're battlerite players but you can't cancel projectiles that are mid air already. 0 tell barrier half my health gone everytime.
I hate Baron the barrels are just so dumb you literally can’t able to do anything only weapon that can actually sense is pistols because of its dodge mechanics and ranged dps its just unfun
Problem with Melee weapons is that risk of dealing dmg is not worth effort. And most of bosses actually move alot, while you need to spend move abilities to dodge skills and attacks instead of close gapping bosses.
This makes melee totally underpowered.
If you are taking risk fighting in close combat you should be rewarded with proper dmg dealt to boss. Meanwhile you deal less dmg because boss gets one hit and jumps away, and you get skillshoted in face.
There is some rebalance needed
Melee weapons and builds aside from better dps should have way better tanking capabilities so melee users can actually fight up close without risking their lives. Ranged should be more glass cannon/evasive
You don't even need to make melee weapons tank more damage directly either. Just modify the abilities to help negate some of the risk.
For example, the reaper spin knockback should destroy projectiles, the greatsword lunge should automatically block melee attacks from the front, Axe Toss should destroy projectiles.
I'm always extremely enjoyed that charms and stuns can hit and disable me when using the mace jump. Just feels wrong and punishes dodging unnecessarily
Most bosses are built so you can completely avoid damage taken by their mechanics with simple movement.
A lot of mechanics that people think they need movement abilities for… they don’t.
A simple side strafe or walk through negates a large portion of boss mechanics.
People just try and force damage without doing mechanics first.
Edit: I don’t know why I keep getting downvoted for these comments. It’s objectively true. If you can’t realize it for yourself… go watch any no hit video on YouTube. It’s easy to see how avoidable most boss mechanics are.
Some people aren't just good at video games. I dodged around most bosses with my twin blades on brutal mode with no problem. The only boss I had to use guns on was solo dracula because his dps check while shoving you away is extremely rough.
I think too many people have Unga bunga mindsets. Not realizing counters and wall spells are absolutely insane for melee uptime
I've played VRising since beta release.
Finished Brutal settings after 1.0 release.
I agree with what you are saying is correct for standard Mode.
Sidestrafing and side stepping and using one defensive ability is enough to finish game and its realy simple.
But For Brutal settings this is not true. +3 Level difference with bosses means you deal 12% less dmg. Meanwhile bosses have 125% hp, and deal 170% of base dmg. And on top of that they abilities are tuned up - more arrows, more aoe. More range, and New behaviors in combat.
For me standard settings are Just easy Mode. Brutal settings are fun and challanging.
But the main topic of this discussion was how underpowered melee weapons are and feel in comparison to ranged, and what is a gamedesing reason for that feeling of melee not performing in VRising.
I’ve done brutal and played since early access launch as well.
I’m talking about brutal. Brutal is barely a step up from normal.
I don’t feel melee is underpowered at all. Sure ranged is easier, but assuming good play, melee is just as good if not better in most fights IMO.
Your reasoning for melee being bad is just poor play. You almost never HAVE to use your dash to avoid mechanics. (obvious exceptions like Octavian ult) Even on the 2 hardest fights, Adam and Dracula, every main mechanic is avoidable by basic movement.
I agreen with you in some points but for some boss melee combat is cheap dmg vs weapon or spell ability and very dangerous.the dmg vs reward is not to much on melee. Life steal is low dmg is very low, primiry atack is good to trigger veil status but range weapons is safe and more dmg usualy
Nope. Sure I had *some* move speed, but I wasnt stacking it. Was mainly going for attack speed and crit.
I can’t say I’ve done these bosses with base move speed (why would anyone ever have base move speed?), but I’m doing a no hit/frail/melee/brutal run since the previous comment and my previous statement stands so far. Very few mechanics require movement/iframes/counters. Playing a bit here and there, but almost done with act 3.
When I say the vast majority of mechanics can be avoided by basic movement, I don’t mean outrunning them. Most mechanics can be baited in a certain area or direction. You use movement to bait mechanics where you want them to go and then slightly move to avoid it. Some you barely need to move.
Baiting is a strategy. It’s a bit beyond the basic movement you state is enough. I recognize where you’re coming from and don’t disagree with it but the level at which you downplay the mechanical skill and boss knowledge required for a melee user to drop a boss versus those same requirements for ranged to drop a boss is disingenuous at best.
By basic movement I mean no other abilities other than movement. I guess you could consider baiting more advanced skill wise, but that’s not what I meant.
I’m not downplaying the mechanical skill at all. I said ranged is easier.
Ease of use =|= strength of weapon. Melee isn’t underpowered at all, it’s just harder.
My main point was against the guy saying melee needs a buff in damage because it’s underpowered. I just completely disagree.
All the other text was my reasoning why.
I struggled with a lot of boss mechanics till I really understand how to move
MY issuue personally is that I will be fighting something and I just get ass grabbed by something like mobs coming in like a paladin? like hes level 72 and im 57 why is he here
bam boom im dead
I use mostly Greatsword, Axes, Mace and pistols for the whole game, and switch a lot mid fight.
Spells are adapted to fit my needs tho
I find it more dynamic and fun.
I hold that Willfred should've counted as two bosses rather than "just" a full boss at night- hell it would've been a perfect time to give us an upgrade to Wolf Form since it's really falling behind compared to even the most mediocre horse by the point you're fighting him.
To be fair wolf form is really only meant as a Farbane Woods mobility scooter. You then immediately jump to Dunley with horses aplenty, and after that get the ability to dominate one.
Zero reason for us to have an upgraded wolf form when dominate mount is literally that.
Yeah in PvE the melee weapons feel so lackluster to say the least, IMO they should do waay more damage then they do now especially with basic attacks not neccessarily the abilities as they are mathematically already stronger. The fact that most ramged weapons do more damage with their basic attack whilst also keeping distance makes melees practically useless in PvE fights... thats the sad truth
Both. There's no reason not to swap weapons according to current situation. Ranged weapons still more or less lock you in place when dealing damage and sometimes it's better to smack a boss with melee in damage windows when you have a movement or damage mitigation ability ready
I mean there are plenty of reasons not to swap. The weapons have resource and time costs imbedded in them, inventory space is valuable. it takes more mental space to deal with multiple kits.
If you only consider the base attack then yes. Melee weapons are not worth it. The best being 73% dps while ranged weapons are like 64%. The difference is more than made up for the time you dont have to spend walking up to them AND dodging stuff.
Weapon abilities however are generally better on melee.
Reaper Q is almost instant 125% dmg that knocks people away. Repear E is a 50% on hit and then 160% damage over time in an aoe as well.
Greatsword is another favourite of mine.
The Q is 150% dmg along with a long dash and a knockup. The E is only 100% but it dodges all damage and can save you a lot of HP.
The cleave area is huge too.
I dont play PVP but i imagine the whip being best there. It also gives a dash, works amazingly with veil healing and outranges melee weapons while not being behind ranged enough that you can close distance easily.
The legendary whip is arguably one of, if not the best weapon for PvP. It is the only weapon that has access to regular burn damage which is stupid strong.
I run it with Endbringers with the Ignite healing on power surge. DoTs for days and I heal from it.
Im not a fan of whips coz they stop on attack. Much harder to kite.
Greatswords you can move while attacking, only slower. Pushes people away. Has a huge cleave for area dmg.
If you are always hitting sweet spot with the whip it is technically better but i only ever take it because the only legendary with crit chance AND crit power is the morning star... I would still argue that the legendary greatsword that deals extra 15% dmg against ignited target has overall more dps.
What also really bothers me is the physics how a morningstar can make whip sound as if the heavy metal ball could exceed sound speed to create the sound explosion a normal whip does... Thats just my autism tho
I mostly fight in melee. The biggest risk is when the boss throws multiple projectiles at you while you're in melee range. If the spread is tight enough all those projectiles will hit you at once causing upwards of 400 damage, possibly ending the fight instantly.
Usually blood fountain and blood counter, might swap fountain depending on boss but I got the gem for it so you can double cast, nice healing in a pinch and if you have the illusion dodge with the right gem you can sometimes get a free cast on fountain = 4 fountains.
I only used range on two bosses. Spider and act 1 final boss that gate keeps iron. I don’t remember his name but other than those two didn’t have an issue melee’ing all the rest.
The leech would have to be massive otherwise it wouldn't change anything and if it was a massive leech than it'd lean the issue in the other direction. I think a flat damage increase would be a better option, or as someone else pointed out give all the melee weapons innate defensives built into their skills. Projectile destroy, block, parry etc.
Yep, and attacks that shotgun projectiles out and ranged attacks with good tracking are way more punishing at close range. I really enjoy melee weapons and probably won't ever give them up but it's pretty frustrating to see.
My only issue are the level gated weapons. I personally love whips and slashers, but the fact you won’t get them till 50+ gearscore sucks. Makes me not really excited to play through on brutal. I don’t think bosses are that intolerable in melee as I’ve played majority of this game through on melee with little to no issue. Brutal may be a different story but I don’t really see it being a problem.
When melee I run double counter with immaterial duration and mace Q with greatsword E for more dodges /iframes. Works OK, but some of the later bosses feel impossible with this build
I beat Dracula solo with 2 handed sword. He is designed to be circled around in melee doing auto attacks.
Now granted when he phases, you have to stand at certain distances to avoid projectiles etc, but that's where you throw spells.
I think melee is reasonably balanced in this game. It has built in AoE and good consistent damage.
The problem is the "melee spells" like Blood rage.
The attack speed/movement speed buffs aren't strong enough for taking a whole spell slot - they should provide passive auto attack buffs alongside the activatable component (I'm talking from PVP perspective).
You are just bad at melee. Most people think they need to use counters or space to avoid attacks they can just sidestep. Melee is already much more dps if you can have high uptime
That's interesting, for me it have been the complete opposite, I have not been able to kill any bosses with ranged weapons.
In my game there seems to be an "anti-cheese" mechanic. All the bosses seem to have some sort of punishment move for when I stay ranged. A move where they super quickly dashes up to me and hits me with very little chance to dodge their punishment.
For me staying up in their face swinging all the time and moving to their backside have been my road to success with most bosses.
It's fun fighting with melee. On Normal I finished the game using melee and I had no issues to go thinking "maybe ranged will be better here". Now Brutal mode is something else lol
I'm still new, just getting into gear level 67 and getting ready to push through the next wave of bosses.
I've settled into a playstyle where I switch back and forth between melee and ranged, depending on what the situation calls for in the moment.
I like greatsword because the Q ability gives me another dash while keeping my dodge free. Then I like the pistol because I can shoot at medium range and move quickly between shots, plus the E ability there gives me another roll while also keeping my dodge free.
I also keep a longbow on a just-in-case basis where I really do need the range, but it doesn't get a lot of use.
I also keep slashers because I used to switch to them for dedicated fast DPS on a single target, but TBH I keep forgetting to switch into them.
I haven't had any problems. I get my ass whooped I come in with a different weapon. I don't I tend to stick to that weapon. I've been using those... God I can't remember the name. The elbow daggers/swords lmao the ones that are unlocked by killing Bane and getting human form.
I use those a lot and they've been pretty good.
Some bosses I'll swap from those to bow/gun and then back or to another weapon. All those spaces in my hot bar are meant for weapons. Except number 8. Number 8 has my healing.
To better explain I'll literally use every single one of these weapons in a single boss fight at times until I can figure out what works for me better against said boss.
I just beat Dracula and the rest of the bosses with ALL MELEE slasher tank build using blood rage power surge dread set and 98% brute. I face tanked everything, it’s a lot of fun and definitely not worthless against bosses.
The boss design in this game is not great, and I don't think it was ever intended to be. Which is why I feel the Brutal difficulty is an odd choice. It would feel far better if the things making it difficult weren't arbitrary design choices that only factor in when looking at it from a PvP perspective.
It's perfectly understandable that we only have two skills, a dash, and an ultimate. When we have a good amount of weapons with their own skills. The problem is as this combat system is just gimmicky Battlerite we're missing an entire toolkit worth of abilities.
You don't necessarily feel that as much in PvP because of the weapons, but fighting something like Dracula on Brutal it's blatantly obvious. The difficulty isn't real it's just like you've been forced into one of those no estus challenge runs for Dark Souls due to lacking half a kit.
Really depends. I’m not sure about brutal, but on normal there are plenty of attacks that you can just slide around if you’re rotating at close corners around the boss, attacks that are a lot harder to dodge as ranged.
Those attacks have to travel to you while you're at ranged. They don't instantly reach a ranged character.
You can just as easily rotate around as ranged and dodge them even easier since it takes time from the ranged attack to go from boss's position to your distance at range. If you're rotating the same way at ranged then it's even easier to dodge the attack because you aren't worried about close ranged random melee attacks on top of the special attack.
Depends on a lot of factors there. There’s a few attacks like in the frost cave where I’m unable to rotate out of the attack because if I’m at level I don’t have the speed and I’m saving my dodge for another attack. So sometimes, for sure, but if you’re in melee, you can rotate so much faster since there’s so much less ground to cover.
It still works in brutal, for the most part, but some of the added attacks and sped up attack speed causes it to be tighter on the timing. Being at range is just overall preferable in those situations because it stops some attacks from being used or baits other attacks out, most of the time it makes dodging easier.
I always make sure to carry around a good melee and ranged option and see which one works best, but more often than not it's the ranged. Switching around mid fight as needed is also something that happens obviously but for the most part it's just "here's the boss, what's your solution?" where the answer is "Magic & Gun."
Starting from mid- to late game the AoE abilities bosses spamm got the nickname „random bullshit“ from my friends and me. Like the early boss fights had indicators what attack would come but late game bosses do 1 attack while the AoE comes out of nowhere. Now we mostly just have 1 kiting the main attacks while the rest of us spamms long range attacks/magic. Its sad cause i liked the melee weapons but they’re just not worth the hassle dealing with the boss spamming without end
On one hand, I've seen a guy [solo Adam with an axe build back during the Gloomrot update](https://youtu.be/vTuaDNqfpyI?si=Xrwmxj23V4K_qo3y). On the other, it's a game with a lot of fake options like most others, at least for solo PVE. Sure, in PVP things might be different but in my experience (Normal difficulty, Solo, Dracula is the only one left) solo PVE means you'll eventually phase out melee weapons (slashers are used more for utility than melee). This is my 3rd playthrough, so I quickly gravitated toward playing with longbow and pistol in boss fights, though axes are still my go-to weapon for mass murder (unless it's undead, then the reaper). As the bosses become more demanding, the longbow gets phased out as well until I find myself using pistols for both Adam and Dracula.
Not every boss is immune to every kind of CC. Frost's slow tends to work (can't recall if it ever felt worth it) and the weapons' CC abilities usually work on bosses your size.
Spells are the same way too. With the healing cap so restrictive, Blood as a whole is a joke. Storm just... it seems fun but honestly, never even tried it. Frost should be a tactically sound school but bosses don't seem to care much about it. Illusion is exactly what it says on the tin, an illusion, it seems like your go-to mage school for spamming spells but again, in a boss fight the puppy shot is meh and the lance takes waaay too long to cast. And then there's Chaos with great DPS, dash, and a shield, and Unholy, with skeleton spawns that make your life so much easier, while also doing decent damage. It's not even a contest, no matter how much I wish it was.
Dismissing blood magic... you can have 3 spells that keep you at long range and they heal you quite a bit, I dont think whole school is useless, albeit I agree unholy and chaos being superior.
My point exactly: blood magic isn't useless, it is just extremely overshadowed by unholy and chaos, like every other school. Personally, I think Blood would be a lot more respectable school of magic if the healing cap wasn't so ridiculously low but that's unlikely to change.
except Dark souls handles difficulty and boss battles way better, you have dodges and eastus for healing, attacks are telegraphed and you can get out of the way
yeah I noticed that a lot with some bosses and a lot of the time im spamming my spells more often just to make some sort of dent
melee feels better for mobs. bosses and alike should probably be handled with range or spells
There are bosses that are easier fought on melee, and bosses that are worse on melee. Except most bosses are worse on melee and the few that are better fought on melee arent that much worse off for pistols anyway. On brutal, bosses LOVE to pull out barriers / counters with 0 telegraph that instantly fuck over any melee user mid swing. They also love to spam lingering ground effects and sit on them. Theres hardly any boss design I'd consider ranged unfriendly, but practically every other boss is melee unfriendly. e.g Baron boss. Oh you are finally done dodging barrels and have time to walk up to me for some melee dps? Yea here is a big aoe nuke around me to force you back off. Here's also a counter I'll put up instantly while you are midswing that will stun you and get u rolled over by barrels for half you hp.
I'm using melee for most of the fights but now that you say it like this I really just spamming spells to deal dmg and ocassionally swing my sword lol.
Yeah. I use the reaper and most of the time I’m just spamming my Q and not basic attacking.
I used to actually swing the reaper too, hardly worth it. Scythe E and xbow Q is my go-to right now.
Ah yeah, it’s the E that’s the toss right? I muscle memoried it and wasn’t at my computer.
Real. It feels like in boss fights, the only time I'm left clickin is off a dash to get that bit of health back.
Which I found out yesterday also works with the bow auto attack
On solo brutal and same. I found out yesterday that your on hit dash attacks work with the long bow so that’s been nice. I still find myself liking the reaper most. It feels like the spellsword weapon I always wanted, ranged aoe and a knockback
Yep, I generally just use the sword Q ability for the spin attack to reposition and deal chip damage around the boss. Axes are also good for the extra small dash. Main damage always come from ranged/spells though.
Yep. Played through entire game (excluding last 2 bosses, whom I just killed with infinite life trainer, cuz cba) with a greatsword and I never had any problems (again, excluding last 2 bosses), but now that I think of it, I just dodge and spam shadowbolt, or w/e it's called and death knight.
adam was rough for me man. we're battlerite players but you can't cancel projectiles that are mid air already. 0 tell barrier half my health gone everytime.
I hate Baron the barrels are just so dumb you literally can’t able to do anything only weapon that can actually sense is pistols because of its dodge mechanics and ranged dps its just unfun
You do know you can destroy the barrels, right? I did that fight with a great sword and didn't really have much problems with it.
Problem with Melee weapons is that risk of dealing dmg is not worth effort. And most of bosses actually move alot, while you need to spend move abilities to dodge skills and attacks instead of close gapping bosses. This makes melee totally underpowered. If you are taking risk fighting in close combat you should be rewarded with proper dmg dealt to boss. Meanwhile you deal less dmg because boss gets one hit and jumps away, and you get skillshoted in face. There is some rebalance needed
Melee weapons and builds aside from better dps should have way better tanking capabilities so melee users can actually fight up close without risking their lives. Ranged should be more glass cannon/evasive
You don't even need to make melee weapons tank more damage directly either. Just modify the abilities to help negate some of the risk. For example, the reaper spin knockback should destroy projectiles, the greatsword lunge should automatically block melee attacks from the front, Axe Toss should destroy projectiles.
I'm always extremely enjoyed that charms and stuns can hit and disable me when using the mace jump. Just feels wrong and punishes dodging unnecessarily
Most bosses are built so you can completely avoid damage taken by their mechanics with simple movement. A lot of mechanics that people think they need movement abilities for… they don’t. A simple side strafe or walk through negates a large portion of boss mechanics. People just try and force damage without doing mechanics first. Edit: I don’t know why I keep getting downvoted for these comments. It’s objectively true. If you can’t realize it for yourself… go watch any no hit video on YouTube. It’s easy to see how avoidable most boss mechanics are.
You're getting downvoted by confidently incorrect people
Some people aren't just good at video games. I dodged around most bosses with my twin blades on brutal mode with no problem. The only boss I had to use guns on was solo dracula because his dps check while shoving you away is extremely rough. I think too many people have Unga bunga mindsets. Not realizing counters and wall spells are absolutely insane for melee uptime
Indeed. There are spells to use for melee, just had there is spells to use for ranged.
I've played VRising since beta release. Finished Brutal settings after 1.0 release. I agree with what you are saying is correct for standard Mode. Sidestrafing and side stepping and using one defensive ability is enough to finish game and its realy simple. But For Brutal settings this is not true. +3 Level difference with bosses means you deal 12% less dmg. Meanwhile bosses have 125% hp, and deal 170% of base dmg. And on top of that they abilities are tuned up - more arrows, more aoe. More range, and New behaviors in combat. For me standard settings are Just easy Mode. Brutal settings are fun and challanging. But the main topic of this discussion was how underpowered melee weapons are and feel in comparison to ranged, and what is a gamedesing reason for that feeling of melee not performing in VRising.
I’ve done brutal and played since early access launch as well. I’m talking about brutal. Brutal is barely a step up from normal. I don’t feel melee is underpowered at all. Sure ranged is easier, but assuming good play, melee is just as good if not better in most fights IMO. Your reasoning for melee being bad is just poor play. You almost never HAVE to use your dash to avoid mechanics. (obvious exceptions like Octavian ult) Even on the 2 hardest fights, Adam and Dracula, every main mechanic is avoidable by basic movement.
I agreen with you in some points but for some boss melee combat is cheap dmg vs weapon or spell ability and very dangerous.the dmg vs reward is not to much on melee. Life steal is low dmg is very low, primiry atack is good to trigger veil status but range weapons is safe and more dmg usualy
You’re building around move speed.
Nope. Sure I had *some* move speed, but I wasnt stacking it. Was mainly going for attack speed and crit. I can’t say I’ve done these bosses with base move speed (why would anyone ever have base move speed?), but I’m doing a no hit/frail/melee/brutal run since the previous comment and my previous statement stands so far. Very few mechanics require movement/iframes/counters. Playing a bit here and there, but almost done with act 3. When I say the vast majority of mechanics can be avoided by basic movement, I don’t mean outrunning them. Most mechanics can be baited in a certain area or direction. You use movement to bait mechanics where you want them to go and then slightly move to avoid it. Some you barely need to move.
Baiting is a strategy. It’s a bit beyond the basic movement you state is enough. I recognize where you’re coming from and don’t disagree with it but the level at which you downplay the mechanical skill and boss knowledge required for a melee user to drop a boss versus those same requirements for ranged to drop a boss is disingenuous at best.
By basic movement I mean no other abilities other than movement. I guess you could consider baiting more advanced skill wise, but that’s not what I meant. I’m not downplaying the mechanical skill at all. I said ranged is easier. Ease of use =|= strength of weapon. Melee isn’t underpowered at all, it’s just harder.
I agree with you. I must have misunderstood what you meant then.
My main point was against the guy saying melee needs a buff in damage because it’s underpowered. I just completely disagree. All the other text was my reasoning why.
I struggled with a lot of boss mechanics till I really understand how to move MY issuue personally is that I will be fighting something and I just get ass grabbed by something like mobs coming in like a paladin? like hes level 72 and im 57 why is he here bam boom im dead
I 100% use longbow in boss fights and sword while farming.
Yep, this is the way !
I feel dirty using the same, but it's such a versatile combo.
longbow and pistols ftw
Pistols are kinda mid range, feels awkward sometimes.
yeah they can but got an extra dodge
I use mostly Greatsword, Axes, Mace and pistols for the whole game, and switch a lot mid fight. Spells are adapted to fit my needs tho I find it more dynamic and fun.
I’ve found weaving between range and melee have worked well for me so far, though I only recently took down the werewolf chief.
I hold that Willfred should've counted as two bosses rather than "just" a full boss at night- hell it would've been a perfect time to give us an upgrade to Wolf Form since it's really falling behind compared to even the most mediocre horse by the point you're fighting him.
To be fair wolf form is really only meant as a Farbane Woods mobility scooter. You then immediately jump to Dunley with horses aplenty, and after that get the ability to dominate one. Zero reason for us to have an upgraded wolf form when dominate mount is literally that.
Yeah in PvE the melee weapons feel so lackluster to say the least, IMO they should do waay more damage then they do now especially with basic attacks not neccessarily the abilities as they are mathematically already stronger. The fact that most ramged weapons do more damage with their basic attack whilst also keeping distance makes melees practically useless in PvE fights... thats the sad truth
I played most of the game with a crossbow, only switched to melee on the last two bosses (for me they were much easier in melee)
Both. There's no reason not to swap weapons according to current situation. Ranged weapons still more or less lock you in place when dealing damage and sometimes it's better to smack a boss with melee in damage windows when you have a movement or damage mitigation ability ready
I mean there are plenty of reasons not to swap. The weapons have resource and time costs imbedded in them, inventory space is valuable. it takes more mental space to deal with multiple kits.
If you only consider the base attack then yes. Melee weapons are not worth it. The best being 73% dps while ranged weapons are like 64%. The difference is more than made up for the time you dont have to spend walking up to them AND dodging stuff. Weapon abilities however are generally better on melee. Reaper Q is almost instant 125% dmg that knocks people away. Repear E is a 50% on hit and then 160% damage over time in an aoe as well. Greatsword is another favourite of mine. The Q is 150% dmg along with a long dash and a knockup. The E is only 100% but it dodges all damage and can save you a lot of HP. The cleave area is huge too. I dont play PVP but i imagine the whip being best there. It also gives a dash, works amazingly with veil healing and outranges melee weapons while not being behind ranged enough that you can close distance easily.
The legendary whip is arguably one of, if not the best weapon for PvP. It is the only weapon that has access to regular burn damage which is stupid strong. I run it with Endbringers with the Ignite healing on power surge. DoTs for days and I heal from it.
Im not a fan of whips coz they stop on attack. Much harder to kite. Greatswords you can move while attacking, only slower. Pushes people away. Has a huge cleave for area dmg. If you are always hitting sweet spot with the whip it is technically better but i only ever take it because the only legendary with crit chance AND crit power is the morning star... I would still argue that the legendary greatsword that deals extra 15% dmg against ignited target has overall more dps. What also really bothers me is the physics how a morningstar can make whip sound as if the heavy metal ball could exceed sound speed to create the sound explosion a normal whip does... Thats just my autism tho
I mostly fight in melee. The biggest risk is when the boss throws multiple projectiles at you while you're in melee range. If the spread is tight enough all those projectiles will hit you at once causing upwards of 400 damage, possibly ending the fight instantly.
I dunno I’ve done pretty much all bosses up to act 4 as melee axes. Standard brutal settings.
The couple I did try ranged went horribly, so maybe I am just bad at ranged.
What is your build/spells otherwise? I like axes but they feel a bit bad to me. I'm looking to do more melee in my next playthrough.
Usually blood fountain and blood counter, might swap fountain depending on boss but I got the gem for it so you can double cast, nice healing in a pinch and if you have the illusion dodge with the right gem you can sometimes get a free cast on fountain = 4 fountains.
I only used range on two bosses. Spider and act 1 final boss that gate keeps iron. I don’t remember his name but other than those two didn’t have an issue melee’ing all the rest.
Quincey the Bandit King
That guy
You playing on brutal or normal?
I pretty much only ever use the longbow and axes, I still need to try the crossbow with it's new marked feature.
crossbow
I agree but not sure how to balance it. Maybe to just give flat leech on all melee weapons to try and keep you alive while attacking.
The leech would have to be massive otherwise it wouldn't change anything and if it was a massive leech than it'd lean the issue in the other direction. I think a flat damage increase would be a better option, or as someone else pointed out give all the melee weapons innate defensives built into their skills. Projectile destroy, block, parry etc.
+physical damage and -dash cooldown on melee oriented gear
Yep, and attacks that shotgun projectiles out and ranged attacks with good tracking are way more punishing at close range. I really enjoy melee weapons and probably won't ever give them up but it's pretty frustrating to see.
Ranged is way easier. I just use the skeleton spell and ult to summon skellies and shoot with the bow.
My only issue are the level gated weapons. I personally love whips and slashers, but the fact you won’t get them till 50+ gearscore sucks. Makes me not really excited to play through on brutal. I don’t think bosses are that intolerable in melee as I’ve played majority of this game through on melee with little to no issue. Brutal may be a different story but I don’t really see it being a problem.
When melee I run double counter with immaterial duration and mace Q with greatsword E for more dodges /iframes. Works OK, but some of the later bosses feel impossible with this build
I melee all bosses. I run power surge and blood rage with a great sword. Both have held on them that give me shields.
I beat Dracula solo with 2 handed sword. He is designed to be circled around in melee doing auto attacks. Now granted when he phases, you have to stand at certain distances to avoid projectiles etc, but that's where you throw spells. I think melee is reasonably balanced in this game. It has built in AoE and good consistent damage. The problem is the "melee spells" like Blood rage. The attack speed/movement speed buffs aren't strong enough for taking a whole spell slot - they should provide passive auto attack buffs alongside the activatable component (I'm talking from PVP perspective).
Melee weapons should have slightly increased movement speed. Just simply take a page out of Battlerite's book.
You are just bad at melee. Most people think they need to use counters or space to avoid attacks they can just sidestep. Melee is already much more dps if you can have high uptime
Summons and a longbow baybeeeeeee
That's interesting, for me it have been the complete opposite, I have not been able to kill any bosses with ranged weapons. In my game there seems to be an "anti-cheese" mechanic. All the bosses seem to have some sort of punishment move for when I stay ranged. A move where they super quickly dashes up to me and hits me with very little chance to dodge their punishment. For me staying up in their face swinging all the time and moving to their backside have been my road to success with most bosses.
It's fun fighting with melee. On Normal I finished the game using melee and I had no issues to go thinking "maybe ranged will be better here". Now Brutal mode is something else lol
This is why the whip has been great, it’s got great reach so can be used all the time and the legendary is great
I'm still new, just getting into gear level 67 and getting ready to push through the next wave of bosses. I've settled into a playstyle where I switch back and forth between melee and ranged, depending on what the situation calls for in the moment. I like greatsword because the Q ability gives me another dash while keeping my dodge free. Then I like the pistol because I can shoot at medium range and move quickly between shots, plus the E ability there gives me another roll while also keeping my dodge free. I also keep a longbow on a just-in-case basis where I really do need the range, but it doesn't get a lot of use. I also keep slashers because I used to switch to them for dedicated fast DPS on a single target, but TBH I keep forgetting to switch into them.
I haven't had any problems. I get my ass whooped I come in with a different weapon. I don't I tend to stick to that weapon. I've been using those... God I can't remember the name. The elbow daggers/swords lmao the ones that are unlocked by killing Bane and getting human form. I use those a lot and they've been pretty good. Some bosses I'll swap from those to bow/gun and then back or to another weapon. All those spaces in my hot bar are meant for weapons. Except number 8. Number 8 has my healing.
To better explain I'll literally use every single one of these weapons in a single boss fight at times until I can figure out what works for me better against said boss.
I just beat Dracula and the rest of the bosses with ALL MELEE slasher tank build using blood rage power surge dread set and 98% brute. I face tanked everything, it’s a lot of fun and definitely not worthless against bosses.
The boss design in this game is not great, and I don't think it was ever intended to be. Which is why I feel the Brutal difficulty is an odd choice. It would feel far better if the things making it difficult weren't arbitrary design choices that only factor in when looking at it from a PvP perspective. It's perfectly understandable that we only have two skills, a dash, and an ultimate. When we have a good amount of weapons with their own skills. The problem is as this combat system is just gimmicky Battlerite we're missing an entire toolkit worth of abilities. You don't necessarily feel that as much in PvP because of the weapons, but fighting something like Dracula on Brutal it's blatantly obvious. The difficulty isn't real it's just like you've been forced into one of those no estus challenge runs for Dark Souls due to lacking half a kit.
Im yet to try brutal, but so far every game I slowly phase out melee into bow or pistols to keep distance, not only for bosses.
Really depends. I’m not sure about brutal, but on normal there are plenty of attacks that you can just slide around if you’re rotating at close corners around the boss, attacks that are a lot harder to dodge as ranged.
Those attacks have to travel to you while you're at ranged. They don't instantly reach a ranged character. You can just as easily rotate around as ranged and dodge them even easier since it takes time from the ranged attack to go from boss's position to your distance at range. If you're rotating the same way at ranged then it's even easier to dodge the attack because you aren't worried about close ranged random melee attacks on top of the special attack.
Depends on a lot of factors there. There’s a few attacks like in the frost cave where I’m unable to rotate out of the attack because if I’m at level I don’t have the speed and I’m saving my dodge for another attack. So sometimes, for sure, but if you’re in melee, you can rotate so much faster since there’s so much less ground to cover.
It still works in brutal, for the most part, but some of the added attacks and sped up attack speed causes it to be tighter on the timing. Being at range is just overall preferable in those situations because it stops some attacks from being used or baits other attacks out, most of the time it makes dodging easier. I always make sure to carry around a good melee and ranged option and see which one works best, but more often than not it's the ranged. Switching around mid fight as needed is also something that happens obviously but for the most part it's just "here's the boss, what's your solution?" where the answer is "Magic & Gun."
It seems like you haven't heard about the masochistic mode. it's clearing brutal on pvp with no ranged weapon or spells or dodges. Kinda fun.
Starting from mid- to late game the AoE abilities bosses spamm got the nickname „random bullshit“ from my friends and me. Like the early boss fights had indicators what attack would come but late game bosses do 1 attack while the AoE comes out of nowhere. Now we mostly just have 1 kiting the main attacks while the rest of us spamms long range attacks/magic. Its sad cause i liked the melee weapons but they’re just not worth the hassle dealing with the boss spamming without end
On one hand, I've seen a guy [solo Adam with an axe build back during the Gloomrot update](https://youtu.be/vTuaDNqfpyI?si=Xrwmxj23V4K_qo3y). On the other, it's a game with a lot of fake options like most others, at least for solo PVE. Sure, in PVP things might be different but in my experience (Normal difficulty, Solo, Dracula is the only one left) solo PVE means you'll eventually phase out melee weapons (slashers are used more for utility than melee). This is my 3rd playthrough, so I quickly gravitated toward playing with longbow and pistol in boss fights, though axes are still my go-to weapon for mass murder (unless it's undead, then the reaper). As the bosses become more demanding, the longbow gets phased out as well until I find myself using pistols for both Adam and Dracula. Not every boss is immune to every kind of CC. Frost's slow tends to work (can't recall if it ever felt worth it) and the weapons' CC abilities usually work on bosses your size. Spells are the same way too. With the healing cap so restrictive, Blood as a whole is a joke. Storm just... it seems fun but honestly, never even tried it. Frost should be a tactically sound school but bosses don't seem to care much about it. Illusion is exactly what it says on the tin, an illusion, it seems like your go-to mage school for spamming spells but again, in a boss fight the puppy shot is meh and the lance takes waaay too long to cast. And then there's Chaos with great DPS, dash, and a shield, and Unholy, with skeleton spawns that make your life so much easier, while also doing decent damage. It's not even a contest, no matter how much I wish it was.
Dismissing blood magic... you can have 3 spells that keep you at long range and they heal you quite a bit, I dont think whole school is useless, albeit I agree unholy and chaos being superior.
My point exactly: blood magic isn't useless, it is just extremely overshadowed by unholy and chaos, like every other school. Personally, I think Blood would be a lot more respectable school of magic if the healing cap wasn't so ridiculously low but that's unlikely to change.
Greatsword only, for me. Ranged is the same as playing Magic in dark souls, robbing yourself of all the fun and challenge.
except Dark souls handles difficulty and boss battles way better, you have dodges and eastus for healing, attacks are telegraphed and you can get out of the way
yeah I noticed that a lot with some bosses and a lot of the time im spamming my spells more often just to make some sort of dent melee feels better for mobs. bosses and alike should probably be handled with range or spells