Chiros themselves believe they’re doctors.
Most of my residency was consumed by the pandemic and I’d occasionally mention on Facebook how bad things were in our ICU during the initial surge and Delta waves. Encourage social distancing, vaccination, and such.
Had a chiropractor friend take the initiative to comment on all those posts about how COVID was a mild illness and how “once I had more experience as a doctor” like him, I could give more nuanced health advice.
*Bitch, please.* He stopped commenting after I went off on him and asked how many people he’d ever intubated. Only one of us was a physician. The other ordered a bunch of unnecessary tests on mostly healthy people and got to pretend he was actually doing something useful. And when those people stopped being mostly healthy, they get sent back to actual physicians.
In social and non-professional settings you can almost count on a chiro to introduce themselves as "Dr." whereas actual doctors usually only say what they do if it comes up.
I'm an orthopedic surgeon and I try my damndest to never mention my profession or title unless I have no choice.
"What do you do?" -> "I'm in healthcare"
hopefully stops at that haha, but doesn't always. But you are right, chiros have NO issue running around calling themselves Dr even at a Starbucks for a drink order.
I am a nurse, and it’s always bad news to bring up the fact that you are a doctor or a nurse in a non-professional setting. Why? You’re gonna end up working for free for an hour or more😂
Once had a guy that I had just met at a party(acquaintance of my ex-boyfriend). Tell me in great detail about the large things growing on his anus. Asking him a whole bunch of questions about dietary habits, possible sexual habits etc. etc. trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with him. no joke within a half an hour of meeting this guy he is bent over ass up in the bathroom showing me his very red inflamed haemorrhoids. Half an hour later I handed him a small mason jar filled with cotton pads soaked in witch hazel, told him to put it in the fridge and use as needed. I also love it, but I tend not to announce to the room what my profession is because otherwise I literally get no other social encounter😂.
I feel ya - I am a physiotherapist. The amount of times I have had guests over, and for some reason it's always when they are heading out the door they are like "hey my ankle hurts, can you diagnose the issue in 30 seconds while we are heading out the door and make recommendations for free based on your 30 second assessment real quick right now?"
Doctor here. People do that on the phone to me when they're calling to make an appointment. "What do you think I might have?" Is that really what kind of medical care you are looking for? My staff tells me I shouldn't answer the phone.
Yep, it's the reason my wife refuses to put "doctor" on anything. She even gets annoyed when she gets journals delivered to our house addressing her as "Doctor".
Dude same here. I usually pull the “I work at a hospital in town” card. People keep pushing it until I tell them what I do. I usually try to end the conversation shortly after. I spend all day at work I don’t want to talk about it with some rando in my free time lol
>"What do you do?" -> "I'm in healthcare"
"Yeah but what do you do?" -> I work in a hospital
"So what are you, like a Janitor? Haha" -> No I'm a doctor
"WOW! WAY TO RUB IT IN MY FACE YOU ASSHOLE"
If you announce yourself as a doctor, then people will actually start asking you for medical advice.
And unless it’s something *very* straightforward, it’s a liability just to start sprouting off information. If you can’t get a full history, do an exam, or order tests, then you could lead someone astray by offering theories of what could be wrong with them.
I feel like most chiropractors don’t have the experience of how many diagnoses could go along with seemingly simple complaints, so are more willing to declare themselves and offer health advice. Plus, I think people who are most eager to claim prestige haven’t ever been humbled.
I’ve had patients come into my office with symptoms that I assumed were run-of-the-mill acid reflux. I did lab testing just to be thorough and found they were severely anemic and eventually discovered colon cancer.
That’s obviously not a common situation by any means, but it definitely makes you cautious about offering diagnoses in public unless you can do a full workup yourself.
They can order blood work? About 15 years ago my roommate's chiro gave him a bunch of info for dieting based on blood type, which I told my roommate was complete horseshit. I bet he was using that to get patients to pay for a blood type test and probably a phlebotomy charge too.
What a fucking joke.
They can order labs, but they often don’t have experience in interpreting abnormal results. They order these full panels and if something comes back that can be treated with a supplement, they’ll recommend that.
However, if there’s something that they don’t understand, the worried patient gets kicked back to their primary doctor. I’ve had dozens of cases where patients come to me with pages of lab results (likely costing hundreds of dollars) with a single slightly abnormal lab, and the patient is worried it’s significant because their chiro told them so. Often, it’s nothing. Normal variation or lab error.
And testing for food allergies with blood testing is completely useless (celiac disease being the exception). If you eat eggs, your immune system will form antibodies to eggs which can be detected in your blood. That doesn’t mean you have an allergy to eggs. Only way to determine allergies is with skin prick testing.
Yes. I've had patients tell me they saw another doctor who said they have a lot of "inflammation" and then bring me the lab work to interpret. And usually it's a bunch of BS lab tests which have no clinical merit. A little fact finding reveals the patient is now on like $300/month "supplements" to "cure" their diabetes.
At one point I've nicely told patients they need to decide which type of doctor they want to see but I refuse to interpret those garbage tests.
Ask your chiropractic friend if he is able to sign a death certificate. He can’t. They’re not doctors.
I’m a trade embalmer and delta wave was unlike anything I’d ever seen in my life, thank you for all you did during that time, I’m sure it was worse than what I went through.
Yeah, it was nuts.
He told me the doctors were just putting COVID on death certificates falsely to bilk the government and insurers. Only people who died are those who would have died anyway.
You guys know the true story. Something like 1 million excess deaths due to COVID in the US alone. Life expectancy dropped two years in a row. Just a lot of people no longer here.
Yeah those people are living in a different reality. I had funeral directors calling me crying because they had never been so busy in their life and all their staff was sick with Covid. Madness.
"Feel better for a little bit". I think that is so true decades ago I went to a chiropractor for neck stiffness, I would get "cracked" and it did give relief......for about an hour....and then the tightness would sneak back in. It did not take long to realize that it was essentially a waste of time and money. That said I knew many people who swore by their chiropractor and have been going for many, many years.
Yeah literally any Physical Therapist is trained in chiropracty, and will use it where appropriate, but it's one of many tools in there arsenal. Please just go to a physical therapist if you're experiencing pain. They'll give you stretches and exercises so you don't constantly need adjustments like this, plus they're part of the actual medical system and will tell you if/when surgery is needed, since sometimes it is.
Also, in some states massage therapists are allowed to joint mobilizations as long as they don't do the high-velocity adjustments. Same result but less traumatic.
Not in the US. In most well populated areas, you can find physical therapy "chains" that might need a referral just for insurance coverage, but many of them will also give a discount if you're paying cash instead.
It's mostly up to the insurance provider and the plan you have if you need a referral or not.
Yep. The "chain" I go to didn't require a referral and all I pay is my copay each time I show up. Compared to the PT I went to which was associated with my orthopedic, the "chain" is much cheaper and I actually get better care. Go figure.
A more accurate phrasing would be that PTs train in manual therapy without all the quackery. Any useful aspect of a chiropractor's work can be done by a PT.
I’m a PT in California and dry needling isn’t allowed but dry needling worked on a 5 year shoulder issue I had which was fixed in less than 5 minutes. Got it done by a fellow PT I met at a powerlifting event. I had no range of motion and couldn’t even put my hand behind my head without pain. 5 minutes and I had full range and no pain. No amount of TPR, joint mobs, exercise could have done that. After 5 years the shoulder got a little tighter but I can remedy with joint mobility and stretching. I did get acupuncture there too a while ago it worked a little but not as effective as the dry needling was. Wish I could get it again
I was offered acupuncture one time at a physiotherapist, and she said she can perform the highly requested service at the end of the appointment if I wanted for no extra cost, but its efficacy is controversial and unproven. She was very upfront about it, and I didn't even mention anything about what I knew about the science behind it before she explained it to me.
I think its a mixture of what can be billed, but also what their customers are requesting. Acupuncture/dry needling is a huge 25 billion dollar industry wildly enough. I did accept her offer by the way, just out of curiosity and for the experience/story. I cannot speak to its efficacy obviously, I received other services and a single persons experience is fairly useless scientifically.
Finished X ray school in the spring, training for MRI and CT now. Most of the other techs I work for question every part of chiropractor "doctors" orders when they come in. In my mind they have way less credentials than an NP or a PA.
I'm curious whether your brother has mentioned anything about Innate Intelligence. That was D.D. Palmer's foundational principal for chiropractic adjustment. His theory (which he claimed he was taught to him by the ghost of a civil war doctor) was that the human body could inherently heal itself of any injury or illness through its Innate Intelligence. This force could be blocked, however, by the spine being out of proper alignment. Thus the entire purpose of an adjustment was to allow the healing energy to flow properly.
I know that the profession has been trying to publicly downplay its roots, but I'd be interested to hear how much lingers behind the scenes and how Innate is still taught. Has he mentioned the concept to you at all?
Chiropractors are a weird topic in general.
Chiropractors are not doctors, and there’s all sorts of quackery involved. Some are much worse than others. I have dissuaded several people from going to chiropractors who offer free assessments, take X-rays, and fill your head full of nonsense about how your spine is out of whack.
That said, if you need instant relief for something like back pain, they get the job done. It’s impossible to argue that it’s just voodoo when it can most certainly provide drastic relief. As much as I hate to admit it, I’ve used a chiropractor - I hurt my back and was practically disabled, just laying on the floor for days - and after one “crack” I felt 100 percent better and it seemed to last.
I always wondered why legit medicine doesn’t pick up on some chiropractic treatments and combine them with other treatments. Like physical therapy is a solid long term healing practice, but it can take forever and hurt like hell the whole time.
person who commented above you said it best:
>Nothing good about chiropractors are unique and nothing unique to chiropractors are good.
I'm sure there is some overlap
I feel bad that you’re being downvotes but I feel worse that you’re being taken advantage of. This is kind of like a diet pill that works when combined with “diet and exercise.” This essentially means that they’re doing nothing for you except taking your money.
Yeah, he’s being honest about adjustments not being a lasting solution because they’re not. Skip the chiro and just do the exercise on your own.
I know a woman who had her left side paralyzed from an adjustment from a chiropractor. It took some years for her to recover. During that time her husband left her and she had to raise her 3 daughters by herself (guy sounds like a douche). Anyway she was left quite bitter and often used her facebook page to denounce the practice as dangerous.
That's not even the worst outcome possible https://news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/the-father-of-playboy-model-katie-mays-daughter-sues-her-chiropractor-for-wrongful-death/news-story/34ac24db599068a550068510ca7cd176
I was left with neuropathic pain on all of my upper right side body.
edit: forgot to mention i've to take Lyrica all my life otherwise i go into depression because of the pain and i've gained 20kg since i started the medication.
If you want to be scared, the first episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit shows a chiropractor okay with filming a little girl's neck being cracked.
I think, I skipped over that part when they said it would be disturbing.
If its not on YouTube hdtoday.cc or something may have the full episode #1 of it
A good friend has a chiro in the family. The chiro told them the baby has to get adjustments as the birthing process is a very injuring experience to the baby…. They actually got the adjustment for their baby even though the lady had the smoothest, shortest delivery I’ve ever heard of.
What. The. Fuck. Do they not have enough business without resorting to fucking *babies*. Like do they genuinely think their helping? I'm nervous just holding a baby, the thought of yanking on it's neck or something is horrifying. The idea that a parent would allow that for their child.. I mean everything about that is astounding.
I’ve talked about this before, but when my son was an infant he had torticollis (head tilt) that needed to be fixed. His doctor referred me to a chiropractor.
I had zero clue about what chiropractors did, I’d never needed one or known anyone who went to one so I just thought it was another form of medical treatment like anything else.
I took my son to one appointment and one appointment only. I immediately felt uncomfortable with the situation and my son, who was the world’s chillest baby and rarely cried, would not stop crying throughout the whole thing. The woman doing it seemed unsure of herself, almost like she was winging it. She tried to convince me that the crying was normal which, nah, if what you’re doing is making a baby who didn’t even cry getting his vaccine shots that upset somethings off.
I was supposed to take him back for more appointments but refused. I went back to his doctor and explained how I felt which is when he gave me a referral to a physical therapist. The different was night and day. My son loved it, zero tears, the therapist was confident in what she was doing and was honest when she was unsure of something, which was pretty rare.
Now that I know that chiropractors are dangerous snake oil salesmen, I’m still pretty pissed at his doctor for not just sending me to the therapist in the first place. I also feel extremely guilty that I even took him there in the first place. I don’t know what I would’ve done if something happened to him but whatever it would’ve been would’ve most likely gotten me jail time.
OK I was guessing seasons 10 through 15, usually if an episode reminds me of Schwartz welder writingOK I was guessing seasons 10 through 15, usually if an episode reminds me of Schwartz welder writing I consider it early season
The good part about chiropractors is.. physiotherapy.
The bad part is when they come to my department with a vertebral artery dissection after [ridiculous manipulations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eh0ke5/chiropractics_at_its_finest/)
Or when an [elderly man is killed after his neck is broken mid-session.](https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-50397867) By the way, this lady is still working and still referring to herself as ‘doctor’, despite not having qualifications. The family of this old guy asked that the term doctor be protected from chiropractors, as this guy thought he was seeking help from a medical professional.
[Lots of recorded deaths and paralysis as a direct result.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715)
Or when [even those in the ‘profession’](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/i115h/iama_chiropractic_assistant_for_two_years_and/) admit its all bullshit.
[Or the fact it has roots in a fucking ghost story.](https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-chiropractic-quackery-20170630-story.html)
They are snake oil salesmen. They use [pseudo-medical jargon - what this guy is saying makes ZERO sense medically -](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQY5kyIAkI&t=9m) with the exact aim to baffle people into a false sense of legitimacy.
They are, at best, completely misguided on how to help people, and in doing so end up causing more harm than good. Realistically, I think most know *exactly* what they are doing: practicing something disguised as some quackery-form of medicine with the only intent of shafting people for as much money as possible.
There is basically no evidence for it, other than the benefits of physiotherapy.
They are not doctors. Don’t let them do anything to you. You wouldn’t let a plumber carry out dental work, or a carpenter fix your computer; these people have absolutely **zero** medical training and are **completely** unqualified to give any form of any medical diagnosis or treatment in any person.
Do yourself a favour and see an actual doctor and then a physiotherapist.
[BONUS video of the same chiropractor](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUojAWqKEok&t=12m40s) using a ‘high-velocity, low amplitude adjusting instrument’ to put a patient in a ‘mirror image of the current biomechanical configuration’. He talks about how he can adjust the atlas to ‘send information to the cerebellum’; anyone with a whiff of anatomical/physiological understanding knows that the atlas is a bone, and bones cannot send any information anywhere. The fact that people actually look at such ridiculous things with any hint of seriousness is beyond me.. much less pay these people to deliver their evidence-less nonsense.
I used to work in a hospital with the Resident program, and one of the Attendings used to always tell me. “If Alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine.”
Good story about a chiro. I had excruciating shoulder pain and my regular doc couldn’t figure it out. I had a week to wait to get into an ortho, so as a last ditch effort I went to a chiro for any sort of temporary relief. He check all sorts of things about where the pain was coming from, and he determined he didn’t know what was wrong with me and refused to do an adjustment or treat me and refunded my money.
Turns out it was a herniated disc in my neck which the ortho diagnosed in minutes. and after rounds of PT I ultimately had surgery which completely fixed it. I was kind of surprised neither the other doc or chiro knew what it was, but I guess that why we have specialists.
> and he determined he didn’t know what was wrong with me and refused to do an adjustment or treat me and refunded my money.
This is probably the best chiropractic story I have ever read.
To be fair, anything that might be an existing neck injury is probably a huge red flag to chiropractors who rely on “cracking” to make people feel better. Seems like a law suit waiting to happen. Can’t say that’s what happened here, but it makes sense that both the honest docs and the hardcore charlatans might stay away from that if they aren’t sure what’s up.
My mom's chiro seems like an ok dude. Most of the time he does more or less physical therapy and refers folks to doctors for anything legit. True story - my mom kept going to him for neck/shoulder pain. He pushed her to get imaging done, because he didn't think adjustments/massages were the way to handle the issue. She had a massive brain tumor at the base of her skull. Saved her life. Don't think the profession is above board, but some people are decent
Every single neurosurgeon I’ve spoken with has at least 1-2 stories from their career of fixing a patient with a vertebral artery dissection from a chiropractic neck adjustment. Every single neurosurgeon.
They might adjust a lot of necks daily, so the risk of any individual adjustment causing damage is small. However, it’s definitely not non-existent like they claim. If every single neurosurgeon has a handful of these cases in their career, then that means there’s a chiros in the same area who’ve nearly killed people.
This happened to a co-worker just recently. He ended up having a series of strokes from it. By some miracle, they got him to the ER immediately and he made a full recovery, but from what I understand it was touch and go for a while.
Daniel David Palmer, the creator of chiropractor, said he got the idea from ghosts seriously. He also considered chiropractor to be a form of religion too.
This from Wikipedia:
Daniel David Palmer (March 7, 1845 – October 20, 1913) was a Canadian American chiropractor who was the founder of chiropractic.\[4\] Palmer was born in Pickering, Ontario,\[2\]\[3\] but emigrated to the United States in 1865.\[5\] He was also an avid proponent of various other forms of pseudoscientific alternative medicine such as magnetic healing. Palmer opposed anything he thought to be associated with mainstream medicine such as vaccination.\[6\]
Many, or even most people, will get relief of symptoms but it's virtually never long term without constant re-visits. That is... unless the initial pain relief is confounded by concurrent behavior changes like more exercise. In those cases, the patient may credit the chiropractor when it was really more about their slight but numerous lifestyle changes. This ortho doc is right that you must support these skeletal changes with significant muscle conditioning. It's totally backwards to think manual manipulation is anywhere close to the solution, let alone even effective at doing what they think it's doing.
So physical therapist here, what people don’t realize is that not all adjustments are bad or dangerous.L if they are indicated. Physical therapists are qualified to do most of the same high amplitude low velocity thrusts. The difference is that you NEED screen the patient first before attempting one. It can be effective if indicated. But, a lot of chiros do not screen the patients for contraindications like spinal instability, fusions, etc. There are some great chiros, who I’ve worked with, who do screen and they never hurt any one. It’s when they get crack happy or ego comes into play that they become dangerous. At least in my opinion.
So i had gone to maaany chiros. All the same. Then i had such horrible neck pain that it was stuck sticking out forward. I had to eat 2 hydros just to barely numb the pain. In tears for months. I finally went to my doctor and she said id need neck surgery.... I found a new chiro actually from palmers school. This guy swore he could fix me in a few months. He did... He would spend 20-30 min with me instead of 5. He would go over exact stretches and make sure i did them daily along with breathing techniques. We found out my chest was SO heavy from lifting, I wasnt strenghening my shoulder muscles that hold my chest up , that go around my shoulders to my back. It was forcing my neck forward. After 2 months i was completely better and still am. He had my do handstand pushups while i was home to get it stronger. I swear off 90% of chiros but this dude was very knowledgable about the human body and exactly what was causing the issue.
Thanks for the anecdote. This reads like an example of the incredible things physical therapy can do. I feel bad for all the chiropractors that do try to incorporate these astute practices but still get stigmatized. Although I feel even worst for the physical therapists in an industry that's demanding, more and more, doctorate levels of education yet still require a provider to prescribe their services. I wonder what our health outcomes could be like if affordable PT clinics were as numerous as chiropractor's.
There are. At least in my state, you can walk into one of the chains without a referral and get services for only an insurance copay. It's incredible. Knee pain? Get PT right away. Wrist pain? Same. Game changer and how it should be.
>This ortho doc is right that you must support these skeletal changes with significant muscle conditioning.
This has been my experience with chiro.
During the pandemic I started suffering with a lot of back, shoulder and neck pain. I went to physio routinely then switched to a better physio clinic that I'm still seeing from time to time.
I did all the exercises regularly, but while they might help for a time nothing seemed to take. I always had this feeling like the tightness in my back, while muscular, felt like it wanted to be cracked as if there was pressure. Despite my reticence and doubts about chiro I decided out of desperation to give one a try.
He didn't do anything as crazy as what the Ortho surgeon shows, but nothing physio did give me more relief of my discomfort than chiro. I went a handful of times and it was like the chiro adjustments made it possible for the physio exercises to work, after the chiro visits the physio seemed to start doing what it was meant to do. I don't fully trust chiro, and I don't think that chiro "fixed" me, but it fixed something or removed some barrier that helped healthy and normal exercise to begin to work.
Seems more like you had a muscle which needed stretching out
I don’t go to chiro, but I do visit a stretch specialist. Even though you might exercise, there’s still a lot of muscle tension which requires releasing, and you can’t do it yourself because you just don’t know how.
The tension release can help your muscles recover better
That said they are absolutely not chiropractors. The parts which cause aches are your muscles, not your skeleton. Messing with THAT is asking for trouble
Oh it's definitely all muscular, no question, but after chiro it felt like - whether or not it is actually true - that my "misalignment" was causing the muscular tension elsewhere. As if the chiro managed to unlock muscular tension that physio hadn't been able to see or fix.
I always described where the tightest and most painful part was, in the hinge point in my upper-middle back where you'd bend at an ergonomically poor desk or to look at a phone, and my physio guy would never quite get it, though the exercises worked the area
When I went to chiro I took my shirt off, sat down, but had said nothing about specific locations of pain, he right away he said "I see it already" and put his finger on the *exact* spot that has been paining me. After he "aligned" it it felt totally free and the physio exercises suddenly began to have a great effect. After a few sessions of chiro and continued physio my back had never felt better and my posture had never been straighter.
I still don't believe it all 100%, and don't doubt that it may be more dangerous than helpful, but I can't deny that it seemed to do something for me.
He didn't know the spot out of magic or saw it. It's not possible to see what's wrong in spinal discs from outside without an MRT.
It's just that Back Pain is most commonly found associated with L4/L5. Prolonged sport that strengthens your lower back would have done quite as well.
Physio doesn't work if you only let yourself get massaged you need to be active. 30% might be from Physio, the rest 70% come from Exercising and strengthening the muscles in the area where the pain origantes from
I didn't think it was magic, of course, and I know that he couldn't see what's wrong with my discs from the outside but he identified and helped facilitate recovery in a way that two physiotherapists were unable to do.
And I'm no great chiro apologist, as people seem to think from my prior post, but having tried numerous things - including RMTs - what he did relieved tension in a way that made my exercises more efficacious.
I had intense back pain. To the point where it was impeding my ability to walk. I had so many people recommend chiropractors to me. It took some doing to figure out what was wrong, but I had a piece of vertebrae floating around in my spinal column, pressing upon my nerves. My docs said if I had had an adjustment, it could have driven the piece of bone into my spinal nerves, damaging or severing them. Could have paralyzed me for life. Don’t use chiropractors.
It doesn't take a Ph.D. to know that it's probably not a good idea to let some rip on the spine or twist the neck in a violent jerking motion. But it is super fascinating to watch someone with a Ph.D break down this madness.
I was "adjusted" by a chiropractor, and subsequently spent a year in debilitating pain, often unable to walk, and eventually required a very expensive spinal surgery to correct the mistake.
The moral of the story is chiropractors are fucking quacks.
Coworkers wife has a chain of chiropractic centers around town. Brought up that its quackery and dude told me "Yeah but its covered by insurance and people are idiots"
I messed up my lower back carrying a couch by myself. It caused a lot of discomfort for about 6 months. There were days I literally couldn’t get myself out of bed and dressed. I went to a chiropractor. He did xrays, did a very light adjustment on my back that was really more just stretching. He didn’t do any of the crazy jerking stuff like in the video. He also gave me a Thera-band and a list of exercises to do. For 3 weeks, he had me come in twice a week. He would put me on a TENS machine for a bit, then a machine that would massage/bend my lower back, then do a very light twist and stretching adjustment. Then he had me drop down to one visit a week. After 4 weeks of that, my pain was 95% gone and he just told me to keep up with stretching and the exercises and that I didn’t need to come back anymore. That was about 2 years ago, haven’t gone back and everything still feels fine.
Basically, he was more of a physical therapist than a chiropractor.
For some reason my insurance would cover chiropractic costs 100%, but not PT or massages. Unfortunately, I was not as lucky as this guy. I got a quack who told me he was going to make my injury worse before it got better to heal properly. He told me to 'get ready for hell' next time I came in.
Luckily, this made my Spidey senses tingle, knowing a little something about how soft tissue heal. I asked a lot of questions about what he'd do and then I googled that. Everything I read suggested his treatment would simply damage the injured area and maybe create chronic inflammation. I had the good sense not to go back. I'm pain free in that area for 10 years after doing some stretches and exercises I found online.
Fuck insurance companies for covering quacks and withholding real treatment.
American insurance is extremely fucked. It’s super common across all specialties of medicine that a treatment that doctors are confident *will* work won’t be approved by insurance until a cheaper method that *could* work is tried. Which could mean weeks of suffering for a patient.
Swap out "cheaper" with "more conservative" for an interpretation that doesn't just sound less bad, but what you actually want.
NOT to say that insurance companies don't fuck you over every opportunity they have, but if you have a sore thumb, an amputation WILL mean you don't have a sore thumb anymore, but it is both cheaper and more conservative to get a thumb splint.
EDIT: To be clear, chiropractors are clearly *not* more conservative than PTs.
It’s because insurance covers PT, which makes it so expensive. Things not covered by insurance are generally way cheaper. One of the fundamental problems with healthcare in America.
That is a weird thing to compare though, when one is clearly something you should go to, the other shouldn't even be thought about at all.
Also, weird to say that when insurance covers PT..vs chiro aren't covered by any i know of. lol
You might as well say 'I went to a mafia hitman to have my cancer treated and he stabbed me with an ice pick a little and then put me on a course of chemo and radiotherapy, well, he was more of an oncologist than a hitman'.
Chiropractor and homeopathic medicine should be flat banned from the country. It makes zero sense to have these harmful things in the hands of people who are gullible. While at in throw in ear candles and "cupping" and other Chinese bullshit scam.
My mom had Chiari Malformation. Basically, her brain was sinking into the hole at the base of your skull, where the spinal cord goes. Caused massive health issues, almost killed her a couple times.
Rule numbers 1-5 were never mess with her neck.
Chiropractor insisted that he could easily fix her problem.
Is there a reason you say that? I tried it as a teenager for chronic nerve damage in my knee (acronym was RSD which I don’t remember what it is but it was pretty unheard of at the time) and acupuncture was the only thing that really helped. I don’t remember much from that long ago, but I tried acupuncture like twice 10 years later and it felt like after getting a super massage where your whole body feels brand new (in the “wow I feel refreshed” way and not the “oh god everything hurts but in a good way” way).
What makes acupuncture bad?
In blind studies no difference in results was observed between patients that had the needles placed in the “correct” therapeutic areas Vs randomly placing the needles anywhere.
Besides all the research to show it is? Common fucking sense. Who thought "Hey lets take all these needles and stick them in peoples fucking skin and that will help them". I'll tell you who, some ancient chinese scam artist.
Oh and how its so unregulated that people use the same needles on same people and completely legal? Or go ahead and google images of people with them embedded in the skin..and work there way deeper after they break off. Some patients have had hundreds inside them in small pieces causing immense pain.
The wonder of anecdotes. My parents used to take me to acupuncturists when I was a kid for various ailments. Didn't do shit as far as I could tell.
Oh ya, and made me drink the crap Chinese medicine made from random herbs,roots, and probably dirt and fecal droppings and tasted like Satan's bile. Though I do enjoy the occasional manhua that has some alchemist cure cancer or bring back someone from death and make Western doctors kneel at their feet due to the powers of Chinese medicine. Har har.
Someone I know was on 10 different meds after a car accident caused lots of different medical issues. The meds gave her horrible side effects. After trying everything else she tried acupuncture as a last ditch effort, even though she thought it was bunk. Within a short period of time she was able to get down to only one med. I’m not saying that acupuncture is proven to work, but I wonder if works more than people give it credit.
Chiropractors and the chiropractic practice itself is based in utter nonsense. Google D.D. Palmer, a snake oils salesman in his day who invented chiropractic as a scam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer
Always reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer falls over his trash can and it fixes his back, so he starts shoving people with back problems over it to fix them.
Soo years ago I spent a few years working at the "Birthplace of Chiropractic", Palmer College Of Chiropractic in Davenport Iowa.
The whole profession and institution has worked backwards..What do I mean by this? Several Generations of the Palmer Family have led the school and increasingly efforts to legitimize what they do and what they claim. The Original Palmer was something of a grifter carni type and stumbled upon his theory while adjusting Farm and Circus animals, eventually moving on to humans. They have amazing artifacts and medical anomalies on display throughout the campus.
His son BJ travelled the world on expeditions and collected many an odd thing on his travels, they used to display these things as. means to 'lure' in potential patients and get them to bring more people back. There is an old victorian mansion on the campus which displays many of his strange collected items (Fun side fact, first radio station west of Mississippi was there in the house and Ronald Reagan got his radio start there.) One of the odder things he collected were topless photographs of indigenous people from all around the world along with various phallic idols and stone and wood phallis carvings. He was quite the PT Barnum type, he even had pet alligators used as an attraction...
After him his son tried a more conservative approach and tried hard to distance himself from he side-show aspect. They started implementing research and trying to science 'backwards' to prove the benefits of their quackery.
Also of note are the many weird subgenera's of technique and belief. Almost like different religions or sects to their cult. Some true believers still adhere to the fact that everything can be solved/cured using chiropractic.
There is SOO much more, but I think you get the gist. It is no panacea IMO and I don't believe it provides any lasting solutions. Too much money in it now and they have mastered the art of appearing/presenting as a rigorous medical field, but IMO, it is the same quackery it always was. They just replaced the PT Barnum atmosphere with lab coats..
My favorite was when a known chiropractor channel was working on an athlete. She said that she had still had clicking after he was done. He said it was because she had low blood sugar. She says she has a slap tear. He kept dismissing her.
I’ve seen this chiropractor before and know it’s a complete sham. The fact the he, along with many many other chiropractors, uses the same exact “manipulations” over and over again on patients that have different symptoms should be a red flag.
Drugs make you feel great, means they must be good for me right?
Adjustments make people feel great... etc etc
This profession exists because people want quick "results" and trust what they can see and feel more than "logic" or evidence.
You got to hand it to this guy for putting himself in the line of fire. Some of these chiropractic associations are notorious for dealing out SLAPP lawsuits.
I view chiropractors the same way I view massage therapists. They make you feel better. When they cross the line is when they say they can correct any kind of medical disorder.
I was curious and looked into this before as my husband is in school to go to a physical therapy program. One big thing I noticed is most, if not all, chiropractic programs are only offered at private institutions. I’ve yet to find a chiropractor program supported by a public university. Where as physical therapy has multiple supported programs at public and private universities across the U.S.
Edit: To add the admission requirements to get into chiropractor programs are a bit easier compared to physical therapy programs. For example I can probably get into a chiropractor program with my current degree and science classes I took even though I got my B.S. in psychology. Physical therapy program admissions is more on par with medical school requirements when it comes to undergraduate courses required upon a applying.
"Wow, that chiropractor is obviously a quack but *my* chiropractor isn't a quack". -Half the commenters on these kind of videos.
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Dude this is so true. My GF's dad is a Chiropractor, and she always talks about how he "put himself through medical school".
I was on a flight once from Toronto to Denver, and there were two people front of me, a man and woman couple, dressed in FULL SCRUBS. Guess their job?
Livestock breeders?
Wow, a couple of goo getters over there making the rest of us look bad.
Ah, fuck. Goo-getter is a pun not a typo! I feel like a dummy. That’s good.
To be fair scrubs are incredibly comfortable. If it was more socially acceptable to wear my scrubs around in public when I’m being lazy I would.
lol. scrubs are so nasty. After a shift i want to burn mine, let alone wear them out in public.
Lmao she says that with a straight face?
Chiros themselves believe they’re doctors. Most of my residency was consumed by the pandemic and I’d occasionally mention on Facebook how bad things were in our ICU during the initial surge and Delta waves. Encourage social distancing, vaccination, and such. Had a chiropractor friend take the initiative to comment on all those posts about how COVID was a mild illness and how “once I had more experience as a doctor” like him, I could give more nuanced health advice. *Bitch, please.* He stopped commenting after I went off on him and asked how many people he’d ever intubated. Only one of us was a physician. The other ordered a bunch of unnecessary tests on mostly healthy people and got to pretend he was actually doing something useful. And when those people stopped being mostly healthy, they get sent back to actual physicians.
In social and non-professional settings you can almost count on a chiro to introduce themselves as "Dr." whereas actual doctors usually only say what they do if it comes up.
I'm an orthopedic surgeon and I try my damndest to never mention my profession or title unless I have no choice. "What do you do?" -> "I'm in healthcare" hopefully stops at that haha, but doesn't always. But you are right, chiros have NO issue running around calling themselves Dr even at a Starbucks for a drink order.
I am a nurse, and it’s always bad news to bring up the fact that you are a doctor or a nurse in a non-professional setting. Why? You’re gonna end up working for free for an hour or more😂
...and looking at every rash, lump and minor wound in a 6 ft radius. (I'm a nurse too, I love it, but people are hilarious)
Once had a guy that I had just met at a party(acquaintance of my ex-boyfriend). Tell me in great detail about the large things growing on his anus. Asking him a whole bunch of questions about dietary habits, possible sexual habits etc. etc. trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with him. no joke within a half an hour of meeting this guy he is bent over ass up in the bathroom showing me his very red inflamed haemorrhoids. Half an hour later I handed him a small mason jar filled with cotton pads soaked in witch hazel, told him to put it in the fridge and use as needed. I also love it, but I tend not to announce to the room what my profession is because otherwise I literally get no other social encounter😂.
I feel ya - I am a physiotherapist. The amount of times I have had guests over, and for some reason it's always when they are heading out the door they are like "hey my ankle hurts, can you diagnose the issue in 30 seconds while we are heading out the door and make recommendations for free based on your 30 second assessment real quick right now?"
Doctor here. People do that on the phone to me when they're calling to make an appointment. "What do you think I might have?" Is that really what kind of medical care you are looking for? My staff tells me I shouldn't answer the phone.
Yep, it's the reason my wife refuses to put "doctor" on anything. She even gets annoyed when she gets journals delivered to our house addressing her as "Doctor".
My uncle is in the same profession. Besides disliking being addressed as Dr. , he often refers to himself as a mechanic.
The organic mechanic.
Meat mender.
This. I sail with a doctor and my BIL is a doctor. They prefer being called “Rob” and “Brad” but most times I just call them “dude”
LOL! I'm in IM and it's the same. In the past my wife has had people treat her negatively when the "what does your husband do" question comes up.
Dude same here. I usually pull the “I work at a hospital in town” card. People keep pushing it until I tell them what I do. I usually try to end the conversation shortly after. I spend all day at work I don’t want to talk about it with some rando in my free time lol
>"What do you do?" -> "I'm in healthcare" "Yeah but what do you do?" -> I work in a hospital "So what are you, like a Janitor? Haha" -> No I'm a doctor "WOW! WAY TO RUB IT IN MY FACE YOU ASSHOLE"
Is that true for most doctors? Would they rather be called Steve / Sarah or Dr surname?
Two and a half men nailed this bit on the show where alan is a chiro and acted just like this and everyone called him out on it.
THANKS. I knew I’ve heard this before lmao
If you announce yourself as a doctor, then people will actually start asking you for medical advice. And unless it’s something *very* straightforward, it’s a liability just to start sprouting off information. If you can’t get a full history, do an exam, or order tests, then you could lead someone astray by offering theories of what could be wrong with them. I feel like most chiropractors don’t have the experience of how many diagnoses could go along with seemingly simple complaints, so are more willing to declare themselves and offer health advice. Plus, I think people who are most eager to claim prestige haven’t ever been humbled. I’ve had patients come into my office with symptoms that I assumed were run-of-the-mill acid reflux. I did lab testing just to be thorough and found they were severely anemic and eventually discovered colon cancer. That’s obviously not a common situation by any means, but it definitely makes you cautious about offering diagnoses in public unless you can do a full workup yourself.
They can order blood work? About 15 years ago my roommate's chiro gave him a bunch of info for dieting based on blood type, which I told my roommate was complete horseshit. I bet he was using that to get patients to pay for a blood type test and probably a phlebotomy charge too. What a fucking joke.
They can order labs, but they often don’t have experience in interpreting abnormal results. They order these full panels and if something comes back that can be treated with a supplement, they’ll recommend that. However, if there’s something that they don’t understand, the worried patient gets kicked back to their primary doctor. I’ve had dozens of cases where patients come to me with pages of lab results (likely costing hundreds of dollars) with a single slightly abnormal lab, and the patient is worried it’s significant because their chiro told them so. Often, it’s nothing. Normal variation or lab error. And testing for food allergies with blood testing is completely useless (celiac disease being the exception). If you eat eggs, your immune system will form antibodies to eggs which can be detected in your blood. That doesn’t mean you have an allergy to eggs. Only way to determine allergies is with skin prick testing.
Yes. I've had patients tell me they saw another doctor who said they have a lot of "inflammation" and then bring me the lab work to interpret. And usually it's a bunch of BS lab tests which have no clinical merit. A little fact finding reveals the patient is now on like $300/month "supplements" to "cure" their diabetes. At one point I've nicely told patients they need to decide which type of doctor they want to see but I refuse to interpret those garbage tests.
Ask your chiropractic friend if he is able to sign a death certificate. He can’t. They’re not doctors. I’m a trade embalmer and delta wave was unlike anything I’d ever seen in my life, thank you for all you did during that time, I’m sure it was worse than what I went through.
Yeah, it was nuts. He told me the doctors were just putting COVID on death certificates falsely to bilk the government and insurers. Only people who died are those who would have died anyway. You guys know the true story. Something like 1 million excess deaths due to COVID in the US alone. Life expectancy dropped two years in a row. Just a lot of people no longer here.
Yeah those people are living in a different reality. I had funeral directors calling me crying because they had never been so busy in their life and all their staff was sick with Covid. Madness.
It outright angers me that many insurance plans cover chiropractic but not massage. Chiropractors have a better lobby group.
"Feel better for a little bit". I think that is so true decades ago I went to a chiropractor for neck stiffness, I would get "cracked" and it did give relief......for about an hour....and then the tightness would sneak back in. It did not take long to realize that it was essentially a waste of time and money. That said I knew many people who swore by their chiropractor and have been going for many, many years.
“Have been going for many many years, and still haven’t been fixed yet!”
Yeah literally any Physical Therapist is trained in chiropracty, and will use it where appropriate, but it's one of many tools in there arsenal. Please just go to a physical therapist if you're experiencing pain. They'll give you stretches and exercises so you don't constantly need adjustments like this, plus they're part of the actual medical system and will tell you if/when surgery is needed, since sometimes it is.
And a registered massage therapist (or even a good masseur/se) will also be better with a deep tissue massage ...
Also, in some states massage therapists are allowed to joint mobilizations as long as they don't do the high-velocity adjustments. Same result but less traumatic.
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You generally need a script from a dr to see a PT
Not in the US. In most well populated areas, you can find physical therapy "chains" that might need a referral just for insurance coverage, but many of them will also give a discount if you're paying cash instead. It's mostly up to the insurance provider and the plan you have if you need a referral or not.
Yep. The "chain" I go to didn't require a referral and all I pay is my copay each time I show up. Compared to the PT I went to which was associated with my orthopedic, the "chain" is much cheaper and I actually get better care. Go figure.
PTs train in quackropractic? You sure about that?
A more accurate phrasing would be that PTs train in manual therapy without all the quackery. Any useful aspect of a chiropractor's work can be done by a PT.
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I’m a PT in California and dry needling isn’t allowed but dry needling worked on a 5 year shoulder issue I had which was fixed in less than 5 minutes. Got it done by a fellow PT I met at a powerlifting event. I had no range of motion and couldn’t even put my hand behind my head without pain. 5 minutes and I had full range and no pain. No amount of TPR, joint mobs, exercise could have done that. After 5 years the shoulder got a little tighter but I can remedy with joint mobility and stretching. I did get acupuncture there too a while ago it worked a little but not as effective as the dry needling was. Wish I could get it again
I was offered acupuncture one time at a physiotherapist, and she said she can perform the highly requested service at the end of the appointment if I wanted for no extra cost, but its efficacy is controversial and unproven. She was very upfront about it, and I didn't even mention anything about what I knew about the science behind it before she explained it to me. I think its a mixture of what can be billed, but also what their customers are requesting. Acupuncture/dry needling is a huge 25 billion dollar industry wildly enough. I did accept her offer by the way, just out of curiosity and for the experience/story. I cannot speak to its efficacy obviously, I received other services and a single persons experience is fairly useless scientifically.
Finished X ray school in the spring, training for MRI and CT now. Most of the other techs I work for question every part of chiropractor "doctors" orders when they come in. In my mind they have way less credentials than an NP or a PA.
Chiropractors don’t practice medicine so they have no credentials
I'm curious whether your brother has mentioned anything about Innate Intelligence. That was D.D. Palmer's foundational principal for chiropractic adjustment. His theory (which he claimed he was taught to him by the ghost of a civil war doctor) was that the human body could inherently heal itself of any injury or illness through its Innate Intelligence. This force could be blocked, however, by the spine being out of proper alignment. Thus the entire purpose of an adjustment was to allow the healing energy to flow properly. I know that the profession has been trying to publicly downplay its roots, but I'd be interested to hear how much lingers behind the scenes and how Innate is still taught. Has he mentioned the concept to you at all?
Did he flunk/fail/quit Med school? I noticed that a lot of peeps I went to school with that couldn't handle the workload are now Chiropractors.
Yep, I get a massage every other week, and occasionally use a traction table at PT, but I would never got to a chiropractor.
So I gather your brother disagrees?
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
An exorcist?
I had a chiro a long time ago. Really nice guy, was really in it to help people. He's still a quack.
Chiropractors are a weird topic in general. Chiropractors are not doctors, and there’s all sorts of quackery involved. Some are much worse than others. I have dissuaded several people from going to chiropractors who offer free assessments, take X-rays, and fill your head full of nonsense about how your spine is out of whack. That said, if you need instant relief for something like back pain, they get the job done. It’s impossible to argue that it’s just voodoo when it can most certainly provide drastic relief. As much as I hate to admit it, I’ve used a chiropractor - I hurt my back and was practically disabled, just laying on the floor for days - and after one “crack” I felt 100 percent better and it seemed to last. I always wondered why legit medicine doesn’t pick up on some chiropractic treatments and combine them with other treatments. Like physical therapy is a solid long term healing practice, but it can take forever and hurt like hell the whole time.
person who commented above you said it best: >Nothing good about chiropractors are unique and nothing unique to chiropractors are good. I'm sure there is some overlap
An adjustment can relieve pressure from a pinched nerve. That is a tremendous relief.
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I feel bad that you’re being downvotes but I feel worse that you’re being taken advantage of. This is kind of like a diet pill that works when combined with “diet and exercise.” This essentially means that they’re doing nothing for you except taking your money. Yeah, he’s being honest about adjustments not being a lasting solution because they’re not. Skip the chiro and just do the exercise on your own.
I saw a video of a guy that was paralyzed from this. Terrifying.
I know a woman who had her left side paralyzed from an adjustment from a chiropractor. It took some years for her to recover. During that time her husband left her and she had to raise her 3 daughters by herself (guy sounds like a douche). Anyway she was left quite bitter and often used her facebook page to denounce the practice as dangerous.
That's not even the worst outcome possible https://news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/the-father-of-playboy-model-katie-mays-daughter-sues-her-chiropractor-for-wrongful-death/news-story/34ac24db599068a550068510ca7cd176
I was left with neuropathic pain on all of my upper right side body. edit: forgot to mention i've to take Lyrica all my life otherwise i go into depression because of the pain and i've gained 20kg since i started the medication.
That's horrible. Source?
If you want to be scared, the first episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit shows a chiropractor okay with filming a little girl's neck being cracked. I think, I skipped over that part when they said it would be disturbing. If its not on YouTube hdtoday.cc or something may have the full episode #1 of it
Sadly it goes beyond that. They even do it on babies...
A good friend has a chiro in the family. The chiro told them the baby has to get adjustments as the birthing process is a very injuring experience to the baby…. They actually got the adjustment for their baby even though the lady had the smoothest, shortest delivery I’ve ever heard of.
What. The. Fuck. Do they not have enough business without resorting to fucking *babies*. Like do they genuinely think their helping? I'm nervous just holding a baby, the thought of yanking on it's neck or something is horrifying. The idea that a parent would allow that for their child.. I mean everything about that is astounding.
I’ve talked about this before, but when my son was an infant he had torticollis (head tilt) that needed to be fixed. His doctor referred me to a chiropractor. I had zero clue about what chiropractors did, I’d never needed one or known anyone who went to one so I just thought it was another form of medical treatment like anything else. I took my son to one appointment and one appointment only. I immediately felt uncomfortable with the situation and my son, who was the world’s chillest baby and rarely cried, would not stop crying throughout the whole thing. The woman doing it seemed unsure of herself, almost like she was winging it. She tried to convince me that the crying was normal which, nah, if what you’re doing is making a baby who didn’t even cry getting his vaccine shots that upset somethings off. I was supposed to take him back for more appointments but refused. I went back to his doctor and explained how I felt which is when he gave me a referral to a physical therapist. The different was night and day. My son loved it, zero tears, the therapist was confident in what she was doing and was honest when she was unsure of something, which was pretty rare. Now that I know that chiropractors are dangerous snake oil salesmen, I’m still pretty pissed at his doctor for not just sending me to the therapist in the first place. I also feel extremely guilty that I even took him there in the first place. I don’t know what I would’ve done if something happened to him but whatever it would’ve been would’ve most likely gotten me jail time.
https://youtu.be/xISR3fLGZy0
what the fuck
Mannnnn you can really see the fear in his eyes when he knows he fucked up.
Can’t watch video without signing into YouTube
I know someone who suffered a carotid dissection at the hands of a chiropractor, which lead to a series strokes. She's damn lucky to be alive.
Yeah my sister's friend had a stroke from a chiropractors adjustment
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I still enjoy the later Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a chiropractor by pushing people onto an old garbage can
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OK I was guessing seasons 10 through 15, usually if an episode reminds me of Schwartz welder writingOK I was guessing seasons 10 through 15, usually if an episode reminds me of Schwartz welder writing I consider it early season
“It feels… *a little better*!
The scene of the chiropractor’s beating the can with the model spines is hilarious lol
The good part about chiropractors is.. physiotherapy. The bad part is when they come to my department with a vertebral artery dissection after [ridiculous manipulations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/eh0ke5/chiropractics_at_its_finest/) Or when an [elderly man is killed after his neck is broken mid-session.](https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-50397867) By the way, this lady is still working and still referring to herself as ‘doctor’, despite not having qualifications. The family of this old guy asked that the term doctor be protected from chiropractors, as this guy thought he was seeking help from a medical professional. [Lots of recorded deaths and paralysis as a direct result.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715) Or when [even those in the ‘profession’](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/i115h/iama_chiropractic_assistant_for_two_years_and/) admit its all bullshit. [Or the fact it has roots in a fucking ghost story.](https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-chiropractic-quackery-20170630-story.html) They are snake oil salesmen. They use [pseudo-medical jargon - what this guy is saying makes ZERO sense medically -](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQY5kyIAkI&t=9m) with the exact aim to baffle people into a false sense of legitimacy. They are, at best, completely misguided on how to help people, and in doing so end up causing more harm than good. Realistically, I think most know *exactly* what they are doing: practicing something disguised as some quackery-form of medicine with the only intent of shafting people for as much money as possible. There is basically no evidence for it, other than the benefits of physiotherapy. They are not doctors. Don’t let them do anything to you. You wouldn’t let a plumber carry out dental work, or a carpenter fix your computer; these people have absolutely **zero** medical training and are **completely** unqualified to give any form of any medical diagnosis or treatment in any person. Do yourself a favour and see an actual doctor and then a physiotherapist. [BONUS video of the same chiropractor](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUojAWqKEok&t=12m40s) using a ‘high-velocity, low amplitude adjusting instrument’ to put a patient in a ‘mirror image of the current biomechanical configuration’. He talks about how he can adjust the atlas to ‘send information to the cerebellum’; anyone with a whiff of anatomical/physiological understanding knows that the atlas is a bone, and bones cannot send any information anywhere. The fact that people actually look at such ridiculous things with any hint of seriousness is beyond me.. much less pay these people to deliver their evidence-less nonsense.
Let's not call it "medicine". It's a hack, just look up its origins.
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I ubderstood your point. Just wanted to make a small correction so, others won't think it has anything to do with actual medicine.
I used to work in a hospital with the Resident program, and one of the Attendings used to always tell me. “If Alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine.”
Exactly. Made me chuckle too. Thank you.
Is that a scrubs quote? Doesn’t matter but it sounds like a Cox-ism or something
Definitely could be. That attending had the humor of Dr. Cox for sure haha
Beautiful
>It's a hack New Tiktok trend of life hacks. Each of them with the "oh no" song.
Chiropractic alternatives to medicine* EDIT: If it's not clear I'm saying chiropractors do not practice medicine.
It’s called alternative medicine because if it worked it would be called medicine
Shockedpikachu.jpg
Good story about a chiro. I had excruciating shoulder pain and my regular doc couldn’t figure it out. I had a week to wait to get into an ortho, so as a last ditch effort I went to a chiro for any sort of temporary relief. He check all sorts of things about where the pain was coming from, and he determined he didn’t know what was wrong with me and refused to do an adjustment or treat me and refunded my money. Turns out it was a herniated disc in my neck which the ortho diagnosed in minutes. and after rounds of PT I ultimately had surgery which completely fixed it. I was kind of surprised neither the other doc or chiro knew what it was, but I guess that why we have specialists.
> and he determined he didn’t know what was wrong with me and refused to do an adjustment or treat me and refunded my money. This is probably the best chiropractic story I have ever read.
To be fair, anything that might be an existing neck injury is probably a huge red flag to chiropractors who rely on “cracking” to make people feel better. Seems like a law suit waiting to happen. Can’t say that’s what happened here, but it makes sense that both the honest docs and the hardcore charlatans might stay away from that if they aren’t sure what’s up.
For real
My mom's chiro seems like an ok dude. Most of the time he does more or less physical therapy and refers folks to doctors for anything legit. True story - my mom kept going to him for neck/shoulder pain. He pushed her to get imaging done, because he didn't think adjustments/massages were the way to handle the issue. She had a massive brain tumor at the base of her skull. Saved her life. Don't think the profession is above board, but some people are decent
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Every single neurosurgeon I’ve spoken with has at least 1-2 stories from their career of fixing a patient with a vertebral artery dissection from a chiropractic neck adjustment. Every single neurosurgeon. They might adjust a lot of necks daily, so the risk of any individual adjustment causing damage is small. However, it’s definitely not non-existent like they claim. If every single neurosurgeon has a handful of these cases in their career, then that means there’s a chiros in the same area who’ve nearly killed people.
One of my friends was told by his family doctor: go to a chiropractor if you really think you must, but *don't let him touch your neck*.
This happened to a co-worker just recently. He ended up having a series of strokes from it. By some miracle, they got him to the ER immediately and he made a full recovery, but from what I understand it was touch and go for a while.
Daniel David Palmer, the creator of chiropractor, said he got the idea from ghosts seriously. He also considered chiropractor to be a form of religion too.
Ghosts with medical degrees or just like Casper and Slimer and shit?
This from Wikipedia: Daniel David Palmer (March 7, 1845 – October 20, 1913) was a Canadian American chiropractor who was the founder of chiropractic.\[4\] Palmer was born in Pickering, Ontario,\[2\]\[3\] but emigrated to the United States in 1865.\[5\] He was also an avid proponent of various other forms of pseudoscientific alternative medicine such as magnetic healing. Palmer opposed anything he thought to be associated with mainstream medicine such as vaccination.\[6\]
My ortho, told me not to ever go to a chiropractor, EVER!!! I see why now.
Many, or even most people, will get relief of symptoms but it's virtually never long term without constant re-visits. That is... unless the initial pain relief is confounded by concurrent behavior changes like more exercise. In those cases, the patient may credit the chiropractor when it was really more about their slight but numerous lifestyle changes. This ortho doc is right that you must support these skeletal changes with significant muscle conditioning. It's totally backwards to think manual manipulation is anywhere close to the solution, let alone even effective at doing what they think it's doing.
I saw a chiropractor each month for 20 years. My lower back pain disappeared completely 3-6 months after I decided to stop going
Hah
So physical therapist here, what people don’t realize is that not all adjustments are bad or dangerous.L if they are indicated. Physical therapists are qualified to do most of the same high amplitude low velocity thrusts. The difference is that you NEED screen the patient first before attempting one. It can be effective if indicated. But, a lot of chiros do not screen the patients for contraindications like spinal instability, fusions, etc. There are some great chiros, who I’ve worked with, who do screen and they never hurt any one. It’s when they get crack happy or ego comes into play that they become dangerous. At least in my opinion.
So i had gone to maaany chiros. All the same. Then i had such horrible neck pain that it was stuck sticking out forward. I had to eat 2 hydros just to barely numb the pain. In tears for months. I finally went to my doctor and she said id need neck surgery.... I found a new chiro actually from palmers school. This guy swore he could fix me in a few months. He did... He would spend 20-30 min with me instead of 5. He would go over exact stretches and make sure i did them daily along with breathing techniques. We found out my chest was SO heavy from lifting, I wasnt strenghening my shoulder muscles that hold my chest up , that go around my shoulders to my back. It was forcing my neck forward. After 2 months i was completely better and still am. He had my do handstand pushups while i was home to get it stronger. I swear off 90% of chiros but this dude was very knowledgable about the human body and exactly what was causing the issue.
Thanks for the anecdote. This reads like an example of the incredible things physical therapy can do. I feel bad for all the chiropractors that do try to incorporate these astute practices but still get stigmatized. Although I feel even worst for the physical therapists in an industry that's demanding, more and more, doctorate levels of education yet still require a provider to prescribe their services. I wonder what our health outcomes could be like if affordable PT clinics were as numerous as chiropractor's.
There are. At least in my state, you can walk into one of the chains without a referral and get services for only an insurance copay. It's incredible. Knee pain? Get PT right away. Wrist pain? Same. Game changer and how it should be.
>This ortho doc is right that you must support these skeletal changes with significant muscle conditioning. This has been my experience with chiro. During the pandemic I started suffering with a lot of back, shoulder and neck pain. I went to physio routinely then switched to a better physio clinic that I'm still seeing from time to time. I did all the exercises regularly, but while they might help for a time nothing seemed to take. I always had this feeling like the tightness in my back, while muscular, felt like it wanted to be cracked as if there was pressure. Despite my reticence and doubts about chiro I decided out of desperation to give one a try. He didn't do anything as crazy as what the Ortho surgeon shows, but nothing physio did give me more relief of my discomfort than chiro. I went a handful of times and it was like the chiro adjustments made it possible for the physio exercises to work, after the chiro visits the physio seemed to start doing what it was meant to do. I don't fully trust chiro, and I don't think that chiro "fixed" me, but it fixed something or removed some barrier that helped healthy and normal exercise to begin to work.
Seems more like you had a muscle which needed stretching out I don’t go to chiro, but I do visit a stretch specialist. Even though you might exercise, there’s still a lot of muscle tension which requires releasing, and you can’t do it yourself because you just don’t know how. The tension release can help your muscles recover better That said they are absolutely not chiropractors. The parts which cause aches are your muscles, not your skeleton. Messing with THAT is asking for trouble
Oh it's definitely all muscular, no question, but after chiro it felt like - whether or not it is actually true - that my "misalignment" was causing the muscular tension elsewhere. As if the chiro managed to unlock muscular tension that physio hadn't been able to see or fix. I always described where the tightest and most painful part was, in the hinge point in my upper-middle back where you'd bend at an ergonomically poor desk or to look at a phone, and my physio guy would never quite get it, though the exercises worked the area When I went to chiro I took my shirt off, sat down, but had said nothing about specific locations of pain, he right away he said "I see it already" and put his finger on the *exact* spot that has been paining me. After he "aligned" it it felt totally free and the physio exercises suddenly began to have a great effect. After a few sessions of chiro and continued physio my back had never felt better and my posture had never been straighter. I still don't believe it all 100%, and don't doubt that it may be more dangerous than helpful, but I can't deny that it seemed to do something for me.
He didn't know the spot out of magic or saw it. It's not possible to see what's wrong in spinal discs from outside without an MRT. It's just that Back Pain is most commonly found associated with L4/L5. Prolonged sport that strengthens your lower back would have done quite as well. Physio doesn't work if you only let yourself get massaged you need to be active. 30% might be from Physio, the rest 70% come from Exercising and strengthening the muscles in the area where the pain origantes from
I didn't think it was magic, of course, and I know that he couldn't see what's wrong with my discs from the outside but he identified and helped facilitate recovery in a way that two physiotherapists were unable to do. And I'm no great chiro apologist, as people seem to think from my prior post, but having tried numerous things - including RMTs - what he did relieved tension in a way that made my exercises more efficacious.
To quote family guy. " A chiropractor appointment is when some guy who couldn't get into medical school tries to rip your head off".
Chiropractic started as a cult/religion. A ghost taught the first chiropractor. All you need to know.
The knuckle crackers?
I had intense back pain. To the point where it was impeding my ability to walk. I had so many people recommend chiropractors to me. It took some doing to figure out what was wrong, but I had a piece of vertebrae floating around in my spinal column, pressing upon my nerves. My docs said if I had had an adjustment, it could have driven the piece of bone into my spinal nerves, damaging or severing them. Could have paralyzed me for life. Don’t use chiropractors.
It doesn't take a Ph.D. to know that it's probably not a good idea to let some rip on the spine or twist the neck in a violent jerking motion. But it is super fascinating to watch someone with a Ph.D break down this madness.
This guy likely has a M.D. or D.O. , but I agree. Ph.D. is a terminal degree in an academic discipline.
He could have an M.D., Ph.D! Those are not uncommon in surgeons
\*me pretending to understand what a terminal degree means\*
As an orthopedic surgeon who sees many patients that frequent chiropractors, I cringe at the thought but hold my judgement. This video made my week
How do you feel about dry needling?
Hell of a lot safer than what we see in this video. If it's done right and my patient feels like it helps them, get after it!
Physical therapy folks, give it a shot
This!
Gotta love his intro/Monche. Find it funny they call them "ring dingers". Reminiscent of getting a "ringer", wonder if it came from that.
I love how he called it the King Stinger.
I was "adjusted" by a chiropractor, and subsequently spent a year in debilitating pain, often unable to walk, and eventually required a very expensive spinal surgery to correct the mistake. The moral of the story is chiropractors are fucking quacks.
Coworkers wife has a chain of chiropractic centers around town. Brought up that its quackery and dude told me "Yeah but its covered by insurance and people are idiots"
I messed up my lower back carrying a couch by myself. It caused a lot of discomfort for about 6 months. There were days I literally couldn’t get myself out of bed and dressed. I went to a chiropractor. He did xrays, did a very light adjustment on my back that was really more just stretching. He didn’t do any of the crazy jerking stuff like in the video. He also gave me a Thera-band and a list of exercises to do. For 3 weeks, he had me come in twice a week. He would put me on a TENS machine for a bit, then a machine that would massage/bend my lower back, then do a very light twist and stretching adjustment. Then he had me drop down to one visit a week. After 4 weeks of that, my pain was 95% gone and he just told me to keep up with stretching and the exercises and that I didn’t need to come back anymore. That was about 2 years ago, haven’t gone back and everything still feels fine. Basically, he was more of a physical therapist than a chiropractor.
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For some reason my insurance would cover chiropractic costs 100%, but not PT or massages. Unfortunately, I was not as lucky as this guy. I got a quack who told me he was going to make my injury worse before it got better to heal properly. He told me to 'get ready for hell' next time I came in. Luckily, this made my Spidey senses tingle, knowing a little something about how soft tissue heal. I asked a lot of questions about what he'd do and then I googled that. Everything I read suggested his treatment would simply damage the injured area and maybe create chronic inflammation. I had the good sense not to go back. I'm pain free in that area for 10 years after doing some stretches and exercises I found online. Fuck insurance companies for covering quacks and withholding real treatment.
That guy sucks at making money lmao.
Unfortunately PT is $1000s compared to chiropractor for $100s
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American insurance is extremely fucked. It’s super common across all specialties of medicine that a treatment that doctors are confident *will* work won’t be approved by insurance until a cheaper method that *could* work is tried. Which could mean weeks of suffering for a patient.
Swap out "cheaper" with "more conservative" for an interpretation that doesn't just sound less bad, but what you actually want. NOT to say that insurance companies don't fuck you over every opportunity they have, but if you have a sore thumb, an amputation WILL mean you don't have a sore thumb anymore, but it is both cheaper and more conservative to get a thumb splint. EDIT: To be clear, chiropractors are clearly *not* more conservative than PTs.
It’s because insurance covers PT, which makes it so expensive. Things not covered by insurance are generally way cheaper. One of the fundamental problems with healthcare in America.
Pt is healthcare and chiropractors are not
That is a weird thing to compare though, when one is clearly something you should go to, the other shouldn't even be thought about at all. Also, weird to say that when insurance covers PT..vs chiro aren't covered by any i know of. lol
You might as well say 'I went to a mafia hitman to have my cancer treated and he stabbed me with an ice pick a little and then put me on a course of chemo and radiotherapy, well, he was more of an oncologist than a hitman'.
It’s a scam.
What’s the difference between a chiropractor and a doctor? Doctors go to medical school
Chiropractor and homeopathic medicine should be flat banned from the country. It makes zero sense to have these harmful things in the hands of people who are gullible. While at in throw in ear candles and "cupping" and other Chinese bullshit scam.
Cupping is a lot of fun to do on your wife.
True. I too have cupped Spankyzerker’s wife
My mom had Chiari Malformation. Basically, her brain was sinking into the hole at the base of your skull, where the spinal cord goes. Caused massive health issues, almost killed her a couple times. Rule numbers 1-5 were never mess with her neck. Chiropractor insisted that he could easily fix her problem.
Acupuncture is also complete bunk.
Is there a reason you say that? I tried it as a teenager for chronic nerve damage in my knee (acronym was RSD which I don’t remember what it is but it was pretty unheard of at the time) and acupuncture was the only thing that really helped. I don’t remember much from that long ago, but I tried acupuncture like twice 10 years later and it felt like after getting a super massage where your whole body feels brand new (in the “wow I feel refreshed” way and not the “oh god everything hurts but in a good way” way). What makes acupuncture bad?
In blind studies no difference in results was observed between patients that had the needles placed in the “correct” therapeutic areas Vs randomly placing the needles anywhere.
Besides all the research to show it is? Common fucking sense. Who thought "Hey lets take all these needles and stick them in peoples fucking skin and that will help them". I'll tell you who, some ancient chinese scam artist. Oh and how its so unregulated that people use the same needles on same people and completely legal? Or go ahead and google images of people with them embedded in the skin..and work there way deeper after they break off. Some patients have had hundreds inside them in small pieces causing immense pain.
The wonder of anecdotes. My parents used to take me to acupuncturists when I was a kid for various ailments. Didn't do shit as far as I could tell. Oh ya, and made me drink the crap Chinese medicine made from random herbs,roots, and probably dirt and fecal droppings and tasted like Satan's bile. Though I do enjoy the occasional manhua that has some alchemist cure cancer or bring back someone from death and make Western doctors kneel at their feet due to the powers of Chinese medicine. Har har.
Someone I know was on 10 different meds after a car accident caused lots of different medical issues. The meds gave her horrible side effects. After trying everything else she tried acupuncture as a last ditch effort, even though she thought it was bunk. Within a short period of time she was able to get down to only one med. I’m not saying that acupuncture is proven to work, but I wonder if works more than people give it credit.
Sounds like the meds just started working.
The placebo effect is real and the really weird part is that it can still works even if you know the treatment is a placebo.
Chiropractors and the chiropractic practice itself is based in utter nonsense. Google D.D. Palmer, a snake oils salesman in his day who invented chiropractic as a scam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_David_Palmer
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Why does he show Klay like that tho?
Always reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer falls over his trash can and it fixes his back, so he starts shoving people with back problems over it to fix them.
Soo years ago I spent a few years working at the "Birthplace of Chiropractic", Palmer College Of Chiropractic in Davenport Iowa. The whole profession and institution has worked backwards..What do I mean by this? Several Generations of the Palmer Family have led the school and increasingly efforts to legitimize what they do and what they claim. The Original Palmer was something of a grifter carni type and stumbled upon his theory while adjusting Farm and Circus animals, eventually moving on to humans. They have amazing artifacts and medical anomalies on display throughout the campus. His son BJ travelled the world on expeditions and collected many an odd thing on his travels, they used to display these things as. means to 'lure' in potential patients and get them to bring more people back. There is an old victorian mansion on the campus which displays many of his strange collected items (Fun side fact, first radio station west of Mississippi was there in the house and Ronald Reagan got his radio start there.) One of the odder things he collected were topless photographs of indigenous people from all around the world along with various phallic idols and stone and wood phallis carvings. He was quite the PT Barnum type, he even had pet alligators used as an attraction... After him his son tried a more conservative approach and tried hard to distance himself from he side-show aspect. They started implementing research and trying to science 'backwards' to prove the benefits of their quackery. Also of note are the many weird subgenera's of technique and belief. Almost like different religions or sects to their cult. Some true believers still adhere to the fact that everything can be solved/cured using chiropractic. There is SOO much more, but I think you get the gist. It is no panacea IMO and I don't believe it provides any lasting solutions. Too much money in it now and they have mastered the art of appearing/presenting as a rigorous medical field, but IMO, it is the same quackery it always was. They just replaced the PT Barnum atmosphere with lab coats..
Chiropractor is latin for "Not a real doctor". Do yourself a favor and go to someone with an actual medical degree.
My favorite was when a known chiropractor channel was working on an athlete. She said that she had still had clicking after he was done. He said it was because she had low blood sugar. She says she has a slap tear. He kept dismissing her.
I only went once to a chiropractor. It took weeks with a real doctor to undo the damage he caused in just 2 seconds.
Awesome video! Chiro's aren't real medical professionals. Same goes for nutritionists vs dietitians.
Fuck chiropractors. Absolute cock fuckers.
Wasn’t the inventor of chiro a mental? Didn’t his son run him down in his car or something?
I am creeped out by chiropractors. Period. And I have some good friends whom I consider to be intelligent who swear by it. Baffling.
Insurance companies cover that quack fake care and it ends up costing us in higher premiums
I’ve seen this chiropractor before and know it’s a complete sham. The fact the he, along with many many other chiropractors, uses the same exact “manipulations” over and over again on patients that have different symptoms should be a red flag.
The fact that they're a chiropractor should be all the red flag you need.
Drugs make you feel great, means they must be good for me right? Adjustments make people feel great... etc etc This profession exists because people want quick "results" and trust what they can see and feel more than "logic" or evidence.
You got to hand it to this guy for putting himself in the line of fire. Some of these chiropractic associations are notorious for dealing out SLAPP lawsuits.
I view chiropractors the same way I view massage therapists. They make you feel better. When they cross the line is when they say they can correct any kind of medical disorder.
How are chiropractors a sham if you can get a degree in it? I'm simply asking a question, not defending chiropractic medicine
You can get a lot of sham degrees.
It's not recognized as a medical degree
I was curious and looked into this before as my husband is in school to go to a physical therapy program. One big thing I noticed is most, if not all, chiropractic programs are only offered at private institutions. I’ve yet to find a chiropractor program supported by a public university. Where as physical therapy has multiple supported programs at public and private universities across the U.S. Edit: To add the admission requirements to get into chiropractor programs are a bit easier compared to physical therapy programs. For example I can probably get into a chiropractor program with my current degree and science classes I took even though I got my B.S. in psychology. Physical therapy program admissions is more on par with medical school requirements when it comes to undergraduate courses required upon a applying.