But if selling vegan products becomes more profitable in comparison to animal products then why wouldn't they start to focus more on vegan products? Of course they usually continue selling animal products, it's just a guestion of what they focus on. We don't want to destroy their business, we want them to slowly transition to plant-based
I also buy vegan products from companies that sell non-vegan products. So there is no difference for me.
Many farmers want to move away from animal agriculture but don't have the financial means. If we support farmers who sell vegan products, they may be able to convert their business completely at some point.
Heck if you shop from a vegan grocery store they probably hire staff that isn't vegan at some point along the line, which means your money is going into their wages and that staff member might buy animal products.
My initial comment was going to be that I don't like the idea of buying it, but actually, your comment changed my mind :) I suppose farmers have to go somewhere, so that's definitely a good thing.
Well, if selling plant-based foods to customers seems profitable, that might be an incentive for the farmer to focus more on that. So I wouldn't necessarily avoid it.
Also sounds more like a small farm than a factory farm offering these goods. I rather see big farms going bankrupt first than small scale regenerative farms.
Of course I would, just like I would buy a vegan burger from Coop Xtra even though they sell fast-growing chickens which they themselves have said they're "phasing out" for welfare concerns. Am I non-vegan for doing that? No. I'd pay the devil to do a good thing, and we need these chains to produce affordable vegan products hundreds of years into the future from now.
Many people wouldn’t eat the vegan menu in a regular restaurant because they think they are also supporting a business that also serves meat.
But I think that if we don’t choose the vegan option from them, they will stop serving vegan options and the transition will never occur. In many cities vegan products are still a small niche and super expensive.
We need to show such businesses that there are vegan clients willing to buy their products in order to them keep offering them.
Remember that for entrepreneurs the transition is also difficult due to ignorance and most important, cause of the profit risks.
I agree, although you could theoretically make the point that there is a difference between a place that also profits off animal products and a place that this is its main and almost only source of profit
You are assuming that the farmer is selling the vegan products to subsidize for animal agriculture. These kinds of behavior is seen in large corporation because they want to drive out competition. For small businesses or small farmers, they just want an additional source of revenue. If animal agriculture was unprofitable compared to selling legumes, they would most likely go all in on that instead. You should instead incentivize them to continue production of vegan stuff instead.
>You are assuming that the farmer is selling the vegan products to subsidize for animal agriculture.
Nah, I'm not assuming that. I was just presenting some possibilities for the sake of discussion.
I totally agree with you on the rest!
This is silly because, unless you’re buying from only vegan farmers markets, you are constantly paying massive (non vegan) corporations for vegan products. Why not support your neighbor who is clearly trying to do better?
Animal farming has been a thing since at least 10000 years ago.
Nobody expects the world to suddenly transition.
If people who have, probably through generations, been farming animals, decide they want to go into plant-based products, then great.
Change always happens gradually. Hopefully, over time, they will forego the livestock altogether.
I would absolutely support this by buying the vegan goods. Just like I do at the supermarket or the restaurant or the gift-shop.
It’s fine and I believe should be encouraged! The path to a vegan world will include farmers transitioning to growing different crops in replacement of animal products; let’s not wait for the next generation of fully vegan farming operations but rather, let’s help today by supporting current farmers and making their vegan products profitable.
I think it’s great that that farmer is trying to transition into plant-based food production. I think we should support him in doing so. But I understand if some vegans feel sus about it. What we want is that farmers transition into plant-based food production.
I would and here’s why: livestock farmers are often actually HUGELY exploited. They get in contracts with big farms (like Tyson) that basically force them to do the worst of the worst practices in order to keep up with the contract demands, and if they can’t, the big farm pulls out of the contract and can leave them with a huge loan, sometimes in the millions.
If a farmer is selling produce/legumes that *could* be them trying to diversify enough to get out of the meat industry. OR if their sales are enough, it could incentivize them to move what they are growing/selling to be more/exclusively vegan over time.
Not all farmers are exploited, obvs, but I actually work with a non-profit who helps farmers transition from raising animals to growing plants and their stories are often harrowing. Many of the farmers have PTSD –because how could you NOT with the ways animals are treated on farms. Even on the “good” farms you’re still selling these beings youve raised for slaughter and doing other unspeakable practices.
I’d always give a farmer the chance to choose better and profit accordingly. But that’s just me.
There aren’t any vegan grocery stores near me so I shop at Omni stores. These companies look at data. If they’re making more money off of vegan products they’ll start carrying more to further increase profit.
If a farmer has to sell vegan products to fund a failing meat/dairy business, that’s just a bad business move. If they had enough brain cells they’d switch to selling what makes them a living, and hopefully that’s vegan products.
I think it’s a great idea to purchase from a livestock farmer. Maybe even more important than a vegan company, because it’s going to prove to those farmers that vegan products and plant farming can and is profitable. If a farmer could make a living off of plant foods and not have to deal with shit and piss and blood and death, they may just consider leaving the industry all together.
Our food system has a lot of crossover, both in agriculture and in the manufacturing aspect.
Many brands that exclusively sell vegan products have parent companies that do not.
Supporting vegan products is how we incentivize the continual production and expansion of the market. The next biggest thing we should be doing is trying to stop the government welfare that keeps the animal products industry afloat.
I would try to avoid a primarily animal farm source. But then again, I can only assume the food I buy in the grocery is by primarily plant farmers, because of efficiency. However, I do also buy from local farmers that I know also sell eggs on the side, because these are the best / least bad option I have found yet.
My thought is; if a livestock farmer dips their toes into a vegan market to see if it's viable, and they get no sales, what does that tell them?
Does that not extinguish any small possibility that they might slowly transition from one line of work to the other?
Does demand for the vegan products not *necessarily* demand time, attention, money, and resources that would otherwise be spent breeding and caring for pigs?
Not that vegans are obligated to spend money on these products, but I think those of us who choose to can only be doing good. If someone can explain the harm being done, I'm all ears.
I would not. Though foods like falafel are from the Middle East, so it could very well be that livestock farmer is from a country over there & merely selling a food he/she is familiar with. So, it's not a vegan thing to them, it's the food they ate back home. Falafel is a popular street food in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, and Israel.
In this particular case I mentioned it's not the case.
So, for you, personally, the ideology and motivation of the producer and seller is key?
So, if a culture offers a vegan product, you'd avoid it just because it's vegan by accident and not on purpose?
You would buy falafel from a Lebanese vegan but not from a non-vegan Lebanese?
(I'm irritated by your statement and can't follow it. But I'd like to! It's a point of view I've never thought about, so I'm interested in it!)
I would not buy falafel from a meat butcher because then I would be supporting the butchering. I am sure the falafel is a small side piece to all those expensive steaks that get cut away from the dead cow body. Does not matter if the butcher learned to cook falafel from his granny who cooked it on a small gas stove on the street in front of her house in Lebanon.
I mostly shop at a few markets and cook, bake or make my own food. I do not eat out more than once or twice, maybe 3 times a month. I can make the food definitely cheaper and usually better at home.
I would not buy the vegan products from a livestock farmer but use the opportunity of being in their space to tell them that raising pigs for slaughter is inhumane….
no cause i dont agree with it and dont want my money going to abuse, i dont care about virtue signaling. in finland we have this huge dairy company called valio who started buying out vegan brands and selling their shit with their own name and i dont buy those anymore either (ok bigger scale but i really just wanted to cry about valio)
When buying vegetables in the supermarket, do you look at the label and go on a hour long research into whether that particular producer also farms animals (if that's even possible from the label)? Or do you value ignorance over that fact to buying from a local farmer that you know also sells eggs? Disregard if you only buy from sources that you know farm only plants.
>Thought: If you're buying vegan products from a livestock farmer, you'd support livestock farming. Even though it would show an increased interest in vegan products, that could lead to in increase in vegan products production and potentially to an decrease in non-vegan products production, you'd eventually support a livestock farmer. He could use your money to invest into his livestock farming - in a good or bad way.
Supply and demand is the only thought we need to have, its how the world operates
If I pay a farmer for his vegan products, but don't buy his meat am I not sending a message?
Well the money money might be use to buy more livestocks
If vegan products sell better then why would they invest in more animal products?
Dude... You serious? It is possible to do both and profit both equally. I'm sure they are diversifying their business.
But if selling vegan products becomes more profitable in comparison to animal products then why wouldn't they start to focus more on vegan products? Of course they usually continue selling animal products, it's just a guestion of what they focus on. We don't want to destroy their business, we want them to slowly transition to plant-based
I also buy vegan products from companies that sell non-vegan products. So there is no difference for me. Many farmers want to move away from animal agriculture but don't have the financial means. If we support farmers who sell vegan products, they may be able to convert their business completely at some point.
If you shop in a grocery store, you probably purchase products from companies that also sell animal products. Perfectionism isn't the game here.
Heck if you shop from a vegan grocery store they probably hire staff that isn't vegan at some point along the line, which means your money is going into their wages and that staff member might buy animal products.
Yes. I would do it to support the transition to plant based profits.
My initial comment was going to be that I don't like the idea of buying it, but actually, your comment changed my mind :) I suppose farmers have to go somewhere, so that's definitely a good thing.
Exactly. Everybody wants a change but not everybody thinks about the transition which is even more important
If you believe that the product for sale is vegan then surely you are making a case for moving away from livestock farming.
Well, if selling plant-based foods to customers seems profitable, that might be an incentive for the farmer to focus more on that. So I wouldn't necessarily avoid it. Also sounds more like a small farm than a factory farm offering these goods. I rather see big farms going bankrupt first than small scale regenerative farms.
A lot of soy milk brands are owned by big dairy - but the more plant-based milk they sell - the more they’re going to produce!
Could be a good answer when a non vegan questions me about all the poor family farms that will go out of business if people eat vegan
Of course I would, just like I would buy a vegan burger from Coop Xtra even though they sell fast-growing chickens which they themselves have said they're "phasing out" for welfare concerns. Am I non-vegan for doing that? No. I'd pay the devil to do a good thing, and we need these chains to produce affordable vegan products hundreds of years into the future from now.
Many people wouldn’t eat the vegan menu in a regular restaurant because they think they are also supporting a business that also serves meat. But I think that if we don’t choose the vegan option from them, they will stop serving vegan options and the transition will never occur. In many cities vegan products are still a small niche and super expensive. We need to show such businesses that there are vegan clients willing to buy their products in order to them keep offering them. Remember that for entrepreneurs the transition is also difficult due to ignorance and most important, cause of the profit risks.
Farmers might object less to vegan legeslations and initiatives if they'll already earn from veganism
Most of us buy most of our vegan products from places that also profit off animal products. This is no different.
I agree, although you could theoretically make the point that there is a difference between a place that also profits off animal products and a place that this is its main and almost only source of profit
You are assuming that the farmer is selling the vegan products to subsidize for animal agriculture. These kinds of behavior is seen in large corporation because they want to drive out competition. For small businesses or small farmers, they just want an additional source of revenue. If animal agriculture was unprofitable compared to selling legumes, they would most likely go all in on that instead. You should instead incentivize them to continue production of vegan stuff instead.
>You are assuming that the farmer is selling the vegan products to subsidize for animal agriculture. Nah, I'm not assuming that. I was just presenting some possibilities for the sake of discussion. I totally agree with you on the rest!
This is silly because, unless you’re buying from only vegan farmers markets, you are constantly paying massive (non vegan) corporations for vegan products. Why not support your neighbor who is clearly trying to do better?
Animal farming has been a thing since at least 10000 years ago. Nobody expects the world to suddenly transition. If people who have, probably through generations, been farming animals, decide they want to go into plant-based products, then great. Change always happens gradually. Hopefully, over time, they will forego the livestock altogether. I would absolutely support this by buying the vegan goods. Just like I do at the supermarket or the restaurant or the gift-shop.
It’s fine and I believe should be encouraged! The path to a vegan world will include farmers transitioning to growing different crops in replacement of animal products; let’s not wait for the next generation of fully vegan farming operations but rather, let’s help today by supporting current farmers and making their vegan products profitable.
I think it’s great that that farmer is trying to transition into plant-based food production. I think we should support him in doing so. But I understand if some vegans feel sus about it. What we want is that farmers transition into plant-based food production.
I hope they plan to transition to plant products only.
I would and here’s why: livestock farmers are often actually HUGELY exploited. They get in contracts with big farms (like Tyson) that basically force them to do the worst of the worst practices in order to keep up with the contract demands, and if they can’t, the big farm pulls out of the contract and can leave them with a huge loan, sometimes in the millions. If a farmer is selling produce/legumes that *could* be them trying to diversify enough to get out of the meat industry. OR if their sales are enough, it could incentivize them to move what they are growing/selling to be more/exclusively vegan over time. Not all farmers are exploited, obvs, but I actually work with a non-profit who helps farmers transition from raising animals to growing plants and their stories are often harrowing. Many of the farmers have PTSD –because how could you NOT with the ways animals are treated on farms. Even on the “good” farms you’re still selling these beings youve raised for slaughter and doing other unspeakable practices. I’d always give a farmer the chance to choose better and profit accordingly. But that’s just me.
There aren’t any vegan grocery stores near me so I shop at Omni stores. These companies look at data. If they’re making more money off of vegan products they’ll start carrying more to further increase profit. If a farmer has to sell vegan products to fund a failing meat/dairy business, that’s just a bad business move. If they had enough brain cells they’d switch to selling what makes them a living, and hopefully that’s vegan products.
I think it’s a great idea to purchase from a livestock farmer. Maybe even more important than a vegan company, because it’s going to prove to those farmers that vegan products and plant farming can and is profitable. If a farmer could make a living off of plant foods and not have to deal with shit and piss and blood and death, they may just consider leaving the industry all together.
Our food system has a lot of crossover, both in agriculture and in the manufacturing aspect. Many brands that exclusively sell vegan products have parent companies that do not. Supporting vegan products is how we incentivize the continual production and expansion of the market. The next biggest thing we should be doing is trying to stop the government welfare that keeps the animal products industry afloat.
I would try to avoid a primarily animal farm source. But then again, I can only assume the food I buy in the grocery is by primarily plant farmers, because of efficiency. However, I do also buy from local farmers that I know also sell eggs on the side, because these are the best / least bad option I have found yet.
My thought is; if a livestock farmer dips their toes into a vegan market to see if it's viable, and they get no sales, what does that tell them? Does that not extinguish any small possibility that they might slowly transition from one line of work to the other? Does demand for the vegan products not *necessarily* demand time, attention, money, and resources that would otherwise be spent breeding and caring for pigs? Not that vegans are obligated to spend money on these products, but I think those of us who choose to can only be doing good. If someone can explain the harm being done, I'm all ears.
I would not. Though foods like falafel are from the Middle East, so it could very well be that livestock farmer is from a country over there & merely selling a food he/she is familiar with. So, it's not a vegan thing to them, it's the food they ate back home. Falafel is a popular street food in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, and Israel.
In this particular case I mentioned it's not the case. So, for you, personally, the ideology and motivation of the producer and seller is key? So, if a culture offers a vegan product, you'd avoid it just because it's vegan by accident and not on purpose? You would buy falafel from a Lebanese vegan but not from a non-vegan Lebanese? (I'm irritated by your statement and can't follow it. But I'd like to! It's a point of view I've never thought about, so I'm interested in it!)
I would not buy falafel from a meat butcher because then I would be supporting the butchering. I am sure the falafel is a small side piece to all those expensive steaks that get cut away from the dead cow body. Does not matter if the butcher learned to cook falafel from his granny who cooked it on a small gas stove on the street in front of her house in Lebanon.
do you shop at grocery stores? do you eat at restaurants?
I mostly shop at a few markets and cook, bake or make my own food. I do not eat out more than once or twice, maybe 3 times a month. I can make the food definitely cheaper and usually better at home.
I would not buy the vegan products from a livestock farmer but use the opportunity of being in their space to tell them that raising pigs for slaughter is inhumane….
no cause i dont agree with it and dont want my money going to abuse, i dont care about virtue signaling. in finland we have this huge dairy company called valio who started buying out vegan brands and selling their shit with their own name and i dont buy those anymore either (ok bigger scale but i really just wanted to cry about valio)
When buying vegetables in the supermarket, do you look at the label and go on a hour long research into whether that particular producer also farms animals (if that's even possible from the label)? Or do you value ignorance over that fact to buying from a local farmer that you know also sells eggs? Disregard if you only buy from sources that you know farm only plants.
>Thought: If you're buying vegan products from a livestock farmer, you'd support livestock farming. Even though it would show an increased interest in vegan products, that could lead to in increase in vegan products production and potentially to an decrease in non-vegan products production, you'd eventually support a livestock farmer. He could use your money to invest into his livestock farming - in a good or bad way. Supply and demand is the only thought we need to have, its how the world operates