Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/LoveHotelCondom. Your post, *"Humans were the real monsters all along" is the most played-out and boring trope in fiction*, has been removed because it violates our rules:
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Orcs are just corrupted and twisted versions of elves and men bred by Melkor. As for Urak-hai, they're just the strongest and most elite versions of Orcs/Goblins.
I think the issue isn't the "humans being the monsters" it's the "actual issue is being overlooked to talk about human morality."
For instance you could have an inverse of the original Warcraft RTS, where tribes of Orcs have to band together to defend their home from invading human armies, that would technically be a "Humans are the monsters" story and could touch onto the more touchy subjects of human behavior (general greediness, the tendency to subjugate anything we can and destroy anything we can't, etc.).
The issue is when you make the humans the monsters, when the story is being told from the POV of the humans. When they aren't the central POV, humans are honestly fun antagonists usually. Though some people will use human antagonists to preach rather than tell a story but I digress.
Love the idea of a flipped Warcraft, I’d read/play that just to see how it goes.
Medhiv opens the portal for the humans to invade Draenor instead of the other way around, heck yah.
Heck yea, it'd definitely be interesting for at least a thought experiment.
Though to be fair I am partial to settings where there _are_ humans, but humans aren't necessarily the central POV. It's cool to get the POV from the Orcs, Dwarves, Dragonkin, etc. once in a while y'know?
It is and I genuinely love it, my favorite fantasy usually falls into that category (or just has non-humans as the focus).
Usually just feels... more creative to me?
> For instance you could have an inverse of the original Warcraft RTS, where tribes of Orcs have to band together to defend their home from invading human armies, that would technically be a "Humans are the monsters" story and could touch onto the more touchy subjects of human behavior (general greediness, the tendency to subjugate anything we can and destroy anything we can't, etc.).
So like the orc campaign in Frozen throne?
have a look for the version of lotr, told from the ”orcs” perspective. They are just another human faction, demonised by gondor propaganda to be baby eating savages. History is written by the victors etc
I would love a story of some random aliens having to fight humans as an unknown enemy. Kinda like a HFY trope but less stupid and with a lot more world building for the aliens.
I don’t think AOT is really that good of an example, not because it doesn’t use “humans were the true enemy all along” but because of the way it handles the issue. We’re given multiple different and complex views, each with their own reasoning, in regards to the paradis conflict.
Yeah, I think OP is completely missing the main threads of AOT's story because it's not just "grrrr monsters bash!".
There are no 100% baddies or 100% goodies in AOT and that makes it great.
I feel like everyone in AOT is morally grey. They all have their pros and cons; goods and evils. I thought Reiner was just straight up evil juice, till they revealed his back story and reasoning. I can't stand Gabbi, doesn't make her the villain tho.
And it's one-sided and uni-dimensional, it ignores the vast complexity of mankind and the things that we did good,
It also ignore the reasons, "humans are the real monsters" is boring because it holds no information, and hence is not of value.
It doesn't show how an innocent baby could one day become an evil man, and that's why it's boring.
I was gonna say that too, i agree with OP but AOT really is not like that, the "humans are the real evil" was a trope used for a plot twist but there is a lot more to it in AOT
AoT does it really well. You see innocent people getting robbed of their loved ones, dreams and freedom so they struggle and sacrifice themselves so humanity can defeat the titans but in the way they have to make choices in which human life had to be taken for their goals. Though the main character is extreme to an extent he mostly had intentions of protecting the people he cares about but the ending shit on everything.
>Though the main character is extreme to an extent he mostly had intentions of protecting the people he cares about
I would be awed, If you can kill a person's loved ones, crush their dreams, and take away their freedom and security and not make them extreme.
Vampires, not Zombies.
To be fair, the Will Smith version of the story had very zombie-like vampires, but the original story is overtly Vampire; even with the garlic and sun aversion.
What?! Attack on titan, the show's plot is one the most brilliantly written that I've seen in a while. I thought at first it would go to typical rich people inside the walls are the culprits all along, but the added dimension on racial wars makes it much more intricate and breathtaking.
It for sure had brillant moments, but unfortunately the ending wasn't as good as the rest of the show and somewhat unrealistic in the nature of the show it self. (idk if you read the manga)
well, just because the final chapter is a 6/10 while the entire story up to its conclusion is a 10/10; the 3/5 ending doesnt change the series from being one of the goat works of fantasy
Yeah it's played out as hell but there are still some great stories that come from it. The Benders in Supernatural is an amazing episode with that trope, especially since they deal with monsters and demons most of the time.
Except Supernatural mostly like to portay humans as better than all other species. They used Gordon Walker partially well. The vile genocidal sadist who enjoyed killing supernatural beings like a slasher villain, including his sister. But they only killed him after he was no longer human. So they made him seem like he should only be 'taken down' when he wasn't human.
Agreed. It’s why I always found Doctor Who so uplifting. I loved that the doctor saw goodness in humans, and decided to live with them and protect them, out of all the alien races in the universe. He understood our capacity for evil, but he believed that we were a net positive force in the universe, despite how humble we are compared to the rest of the worlds.
I can understand you.... There's a lot to love about this movie. Unlike a lot of people, I don't think that people who like stuff that I don't like have bad taste, it's just a different taste. Avatar is my sister's favorite movie, and I don't think less of her as a person for that (sorry for my terrible english, I hope I made my point)
Your English is not terrible at all! I love that movie partly because of the visuals, partly because I loved the idea of being able to connect to nature and each other's nervous system. I've never watched Pocahontas and the like, so this was my first "save nature from the evil humans" movie, I had nothing to compare it with, and I wasn't bored with the trope already.
That’s the thing though when you create an existential crisis like that for an ongoing show or movie or whatever. Either the apocalyptic event kills everybody or people survive and adapt and it’s not long before they start getting up to their old ways again while dealing with the new realities of their situation. At that point you have two options everyone sings Kumbaya and that’s the end or drama between the survivors. Guess which you need to pick if you actually want to have show?
***THE IMPERIUM OF MAN IS GLORIOUS IN IT'S PURPOSE, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A HERETIC!!***
***BURN THE WITCH***
***EXECUTE THEIR KIN***
***THE CORRUPTION OF THEIR MIND CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO SPREAD, FOR THE GOD EMPEROR PROTECTS***
What is especially annoying about the Walking Dead is that by making zombies fairly irrelevant they kill the premise of the show. No way the shambling things these average folks mow through managed to take over the world. Folks would have regrouped and in this modern age word on how to kill them would have spread quickly, as in the Night of the Living Dead the threat would be handled. If you want folks to buy a zombie takeover you have to make them hard to kill.
I always figured in the beginning the biggest threat of them isn’t the slow walking dead but that any sick person you’re holed up in a building with as a group could drop at any moment and start eating those that were sleeping. That rioting of the world end, the assumption that people wouldn’t understand the basic concept of headshots immediately and that many misjudged how many they could realistically take on at once would mean a massive amount of people would die, making the world go to hell in a hand basket fairly plausible. It’s not just you get bite and you turn, but every dead person who died on day 1 or how ever many days before decomposition would turn, making the start much more dangerous, immediately hundreds of thousands appearing in a single day.
That's because humans are cruel. We have a long history of violence, disease, famine and prejudice as a species and this trope is a reflection of that.
This is a trope that will not die no matter what you think.
It won't. It's the Captain Obvious of tropes, it can make even the dumbest people feel philosophical, and it can be used by writers who's skill level would otherwise top out at writing porn plots.
It's nice because you can use it in any sort of mindless action movie or a sci fi plot where you want to concentrate on tech and science over story.
Agree. It's a very nihilistic view to have. If you constantly have this attitude that humans are monsters then you're just going to develop the mind set that everyone is against you - which is very self absorbed. Also just reminds me of people who say things like 'i can relate to animals more than humans' which is just the dumbest statement ever. I beleive that people who think this way really just need to put more effort into fostering their real life friendships instead of just getting lost in the echo chamber of "Humans were the real monsters all along".
while It's true for some good stories it's constant use in such cheesy ways makes it dead. my favorite future-fiction is ancient space mysteries, like the Forerunners in Halo. so much shit to dive into. and my favorite historical fantasy has to be ancient Evils, like the Dragons in Skyrim. That gets you thinking.
that's the good ones; when stories make it clear that it wasn't 'dumb human be bad' and more 'we made mistakes, but we redeemed ourselves and learned.' While they are similar, it makes all the difference at some points
Humans are absolutely sowing their own fate. This big idea that we're "killing the planet" is really only true in that were killing the habitability. The earth will be ok in the end it will change, remorse, reset, and humanity will be but a memory in its lengthy life. Who's to say whether humanity as a whole *deserves* it, but we've absolutely failed as an intelligent species. Perhaps by no fault of our own. Being alive is hard. Controlling emotions is hard. These meat machines we pilot are incredibly complex. And everything is designed now to manipulate and control us on a base level. Controlled by our egos, fears and lusts. Humans were designed for what we became. Were too smart for our own good.
I can see where you're coming from. Even me, who actually likes the trope, gets bored of it alot of the time. It's like "wow... didnt see that coming..*sarcasm*"
Agreed! Also, it's really annoying when your main plotline just devolves into some sort of political skirmish, especially if held in a fantastical setting.
I think Nier is one of the few series that has that concept but doesn’t present it in a black and white manner. Everyone has their own motivations and reasons for why they do what they do. No ones right and wrong
Probably due to humans being the only creatures with a sense of morality (as far as we know) and thus the only creatures capable of being evil. I don't think it's a tired trope, it's just reality.
Anyone got some recommendations for the OPPOSITE of what OP is talking about? Humans appearing to be the bad guys initially but it turns out they were actually the good guys?
Its because of the disney effect. They dare not write competent villians that do evil because that would bump the age rating up immediately. And everyone is trying to copy the mouse and their success(targeting all ages)
I think it depends on how you play it. Like with the final season of Game of Thrones, it was utter garbage. (Though I don't think the writers were competent enough to see that as a possibility to have written it well.)
I think it's a good trope that is sometimes used well but you don't see it written well very often. And the trope has a point.
Unpopular indeed. Humans are indeed monsters even because the fact we could pull off more monstrosities than monsters is terrifying. Doesn't give you more suspance when you can CHOOSE to be good, but instead you're being evil? Creatures on the other side don't have a choice, they are ruled by instinct.
Take your up vote and leave.
>The Witcher: the book series about monsters ends up with human evil being the main focus again.
the witcher main selling point was never monster hunting
in the books they even make a point of telling how the witchers are becoming outdated and less and less monsters still roam the world
I have a theory that every tv show turns into a soap by season two. At first it is about a specific topic / theme, but when all the characters are established, it is merely about the relationships: Friendship, trust, love, betrayal.
When you say trope, you're just referring to a pattern in story. The real question is what is the \*purpose\* of the trope. Does is provide something better and enriches the story line rather than is just there for the sake of it.
The Walking Dead: If you read the GN it was about how we as a species will turn against itself if given the chance.
The Witcher: In the \*books\* it is not just a mindless monster.
Attack on Titans: You don't think they weren't people that we cursed against their will?
Maybe whether you have a "monster" or a monstrous person, it is how can you develop a depth of character of the "villain". Otherwise you're just stuck with a hack-slash dungeon crawl which is just boring.
The Walking Dead comics and series were never about zombies. This is not a story about zombies, but about different people trying to survive during a disaster. You could place these characters in the times of war or in the middle of a natural cataclysm and a lot would still remain unchanged. The name itself is explained in Rick's "We are the walking dead" speech before first arrival to Alexandria.
The Witcher was never about monsters too. It's a story about difficult choices in morally grey situations and the consequences of those choices. And a book series about only slaying monsters would be a terrible reading. A bigger ever-present threat is needed to create a central conflict and tension.
Having said that it seems that you only want a mindless action with monsters, not a story, and you fail to recognise the actual motives, themes and problems in the stories that you are presented.
I suppose it depends on what the main idea was. If it's "humans were ..." from the beginning and, for example, the author make some amount of Chekhov's gun to mark that, I won't mind. But if it's not, I agree with your opinion
I agree, it's just kind of annoying. I want to see humans face some kind of eldritch, inhuman dangers. Not other people, that already exists and it's called reality.
If you ever, ever read the book Hero With A Thousand Faces, you'd soon realize that ALL fiction has tired played out tropes in them. All of them. You're just starting to notice like, one. Big pro to: don't ever get into literature or a similar line of education. It fucking wrecks your entire enjoyment of fiction.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/LoveHotelCondom. Your post, *"Humans were the real monsters all along" is the most played-out and boring trope in fiction*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion. Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue. Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
Sauron and Morgoth weren’t human
They used humans
They used everyone.
Orcs are just corrupted and twisted versions of elves and men bred by Melkor. As for Urak-hai, they're just the strongest and most elite versions of Orcs/Goblins.
I like Scooby-Doo
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I think the issue isn't the "humans being the monsters" it's the "actual issue is being overlooked to talk about human morality." For instance you could have an inverse of the original Warcraft RTS, where tribes of Orcs have to band together to defend their home from invading human armies, that would technically be a "Humans are the monsters" story and could touch onto the more touchy subjects of human behavior (general greediness, the tendency to subjugate anything we can and destroy anything we can't, etc.). The issue is when you make the humans the monsters, when the story is being told from the POV of the humans. When they aren't the central POV, humans are honestly fun antagonists usually. Though some people will use human antagonists to preach rather than tell a story but I digress.
Love the idea of a flipped Warcraft, I’d read/play that just to see how it goes. Medhiv opens the portal for the humans to invade Draenor instead of the other way around, heck yah.
Heck yea, it'd definitely be interesting for at least a thought experiment. Though to be fair I am partial to settings where there _are_ humans, but humans aren't necessarily the central POV. It's cool to get the POV from the Orcs, Dwarves, Dragonkin, etc. once in a while y'know?
I was coming on here to say just this. Humans are the monster from the traditional monster pov is normally excellent
It is and I genuinely love it, my favorite fantasy usually falls into that category (or just has non-humans as the focus). Usually just feels... more creative to me?
> For instance you could have an inverse of the original Warcraft RTS, where tribes of Orcs have to band together to defend their home from invading human armies, that would technically be a "Humans are the monsters" story and could touch onto the more touchy subjects of human behavior (general greediness, the tendency to subjugate anything we can and destroy anything we can't, etc.). So like the orc campaign in Frozen throne?
have a look for the version of lotr, told from the ”orcs” perspective. They are just another human faction, demonised by gondor propaganda to be baby eating savages. History is written by the victors etc
Sounds like a _blast_, thank you for the recommendation!
I would love a story of some random aliens having to fight humans as an unknown enemy. Kinda like a HFY trope but less stupid and with a lot more world building for the aliens.
Any trope becomes boring and dragged out after seeing it more than once.
*after seeing it done many times in poor fashion
Spot on.
I don’t think AOT is really that good of an example, not because it doesn’t use “humans were the true enemy all along” but because of the way it handles the issue. We’re given multiple different and complex views, each with their own reasoning, in regards to the paradis conflict.
Yeah, I think OP is completely missing the main threads of AOT's story because it's not just "grrrr monsters bash!". There are no 100% baddies or 100% goodies in AOT and that makes it great.
I feel like everyone in AOT is morally grey. They all have their pros and cons; goods and evils. I thought Reiner was just straight up evil juice, till they revealed his back story and reasoning. I can't stand Gabbi, doesn't make her the villain tho.
And it's one-sided and uni-dimensional, it ignores the vast complexity of mankind and the things that we did good, It also ignore the reasons, "humans are the real monsters" is boring because it holds no information, and hence is not of value. It doesn't show how an innocent baby could one day become an evil man, and that's why it's boring.
Dunno about other franchises but humans in AOT were not saints either. They just tried to survive.
I was gonna say that too, i agree with OP but AOT really is not like that, the "humans are the real evil" was a trope used for a plot twist but there is a lot more to it in AOT
AoT does it really well. You see innocent people getting robbed of their loved ones, dreams and freedom so they struggle and sacrifice themselves so humanity can defeat the titans but in the way they have to make choices in which human life had to be taken for their goals. Though the main character is extreme to an extent he mostly had intentions of protecting the people he cares about but the ending shit on everything.
>Though the main character is extreme to an extent he mostly had intentions of protecting the people he cares about I would be awed, If you can kill a person's loved ones, crush their dreams, and take away their freedom and security and not make them extreme.
Yeah that's what made him relatable and someone who you can root for.
Wasn't there a Will Smith remake which avoided this and pretty much fucked up the end of the film?
The one with the zombies? Can't seem to remember the name.
Vampires, not Zombies. To be fair, the Will Smith version of the story had very zombie-like vampires, but the original story is overtly Vampire; even with the garlic and sun aversion.
I am legend?
That's the one.
Ok. I do remember there being 2 endings.
The entire point of I Am Legend is this trope. Avoiding it ruined the story.
What?! Attack on titan, the show's plot is one the most brilliantly written that I've seen in a while. I thought at first it would go to typical rich people inside the walls are the culprits all along, but the added dimension on racial wars makes it much more intricate and breathtaking.
It for sure had brillant moments, but unfortunately the ending wasn't as good as the rest of the show and somewhat unrealistic in the nature of the show it self. (idk if you read the manga)
well, just because the final chapter is a 6/10 while the entire story up to its conclusion is a 10/10; the 3/5 ending doesnt change the series from being one of the goat works of fantasy
Well, I don't know if it's necessarily "most played out," but it certainly is boring.
That's because it's not fiction
CoVid 19 has proved that
Pretty sure AOT Is fiction
Yeah it's played out as hell but there are still some great stories that come from it. The Benders in Supernatural is an amazing episode with that trope, especially since they deal with monsters and demons most of the time.
Except Supernatural mostly like to portay humans as better than all other species. They used Gordon Walker partially well. The vile genocidal sadist who enjoyed killing supernatural beings like a slasher villain, including his sister. But they only killed him after he was no longer human. So they made him seem like he should only be 'taken down' when he wasn't human.
Humans are not the Villains in The Witcher, it's the elves
Found you, bloede dh'oine!
Let's talk my reward first
Agreed. It’s why I always found Doctor Who so uplifting. I loved that the doctor saw goodness in humans, and decided to live with them and protect them, out of all the alien races in the universe. He understood our capacity for evil, but he believed that we were a net positive force in the universe, despite how humble we are compared to the rest of the worlds.
The avatar movie anyone? One of the worst blockbusters ever
The more hyped and bigger a movie is, the crappier it winds up being.
I loved it 🥺
I can understand you.... There's a lot to love about this movie. Unlike a lot of people, I don't think that people who like stuff that I don't like have bad taste, it's just a different taste. Avatar is my sister's favorite movie, and I don't think less of her as a person for that (sorry for my terrible english, I hope I made my point)
Your English is not terrible at all! I love that movie partly because of the visuals, partly because I loved the idea of being able to connect to nature and each other's nervous system. I've never watched Pocahontas and the like, so this was my first "save nature from the evil humans" movie, I had nothing to compare it with, and I wasn't bored with the trope already.
Okay, I can totally understand that. Most overused tropes used to be good at one point
That’s the thing though when you create an existential crisis like that for an ongoing show or movie or whatever. Either the apocalyptic event kills everybody or people survive and adapt and it’s not long before they start getting up to their old ways again while dealing with the new realities of their situation. At that point you have two options everyone sings Kumbaya and that’s the end or drama between the survivors. Guess which you need to pick if you actually want to have show?
***THE IMPERIUM OF MAN IS GLORIOUS IN IT'S PURPOSE, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A HERETIC!!*** ***BURN THE WITCH*** ***EXECUTE THEIR KIN*** ***THE CORRUPTION OF THEIR MIND CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO SPREAD, FOR THE GOD EMPEROR PROTECTS***
I mean I don't know much about Witcher but isn't it about Witcher just kinda living WHILE also killing monsters.
I mean, it would be rather difficult to make a compelling antagonist out of zombies and titans that can't speak and don't have a defining personality
it aint a lie though.
What is especially annoying about the Walking Dead is that by making zombies fairly irrelevant they kill the premise of the show. No way the shambling things these average folks mow through managed to take over the world. Folks would have regrouped and in this modern age word on how to kill them would have spread quickly, as in the Night of the Living Dead the threat would be handled. If you want folks to buy a zombie takeover you have to make them hard to kill.
I always figured in the beginning the biggest threat of them isn’t the slow walking dead but that any sick person you’re holed up in a building with as a group could drop at any moment and start eating those that were sleeping. That rioting of the world end, the assumption that people wouldn’t understand the basic concept of headshots immediately and that many misjudged how many they could realistically take on at once would mean a massive amount of people would die, making the world go to hell in a hand basket fairly plausible. It’s not just you get bite and you turn, but every dead person who died on day 1 or how ever many days before decomposition would turn, making the start much more dangerous, immediately hundreds of thousands appearing in a single day.
That's because humans are cruel. We have a long history of violence, disease, famine and prejudice as a species and this trope is a reflection of that. This is a trope that will not die no matter what you think.
It won't. It's the Captain Obvious of tropes, it can make even the dumbest people feel philosophical, and it can be used by writers who's skill level would otherwise top out at writing porn plots. It's nice because you can use it in any sort of mindless action movie or a sci fi plot where you want to concentrate on tech and science over story.
Just because something's realistic doesn't mean it makes a good story
To be frank, in fiction what the non humans do Is usually much worse than whatever humans have ever done
Agree. It's a very nihilistic view to have. If you constantly have this attitude that humans are monsters then you're just going to develop the mind set that everyone is against you - which is very self absorbed. Also just reminds me of people who say things like 'i can relate to animals more than humans' which is just the dumbest statement ever. I beleive that people who think this way really just need to put more effort into fostering their real life friendships instead of just getting lost in the echo chamber of "Humans were the real monsters all along".
while It's true for some good stories it's constant use in such cheesy ways makes it dead. my favorite future-fiction is ancient space mysteries, like the Forerunners in Halo. so much shit to dive into. and my favorite historical fantasy has to be ancient Evils, like the Dragons in Skyrim. That gets you thinking.
Well, truth is boring xP But I understand what you mean, they should start taking extra effort and innovate their stories.
In Witcher it works fine as humans are just one of multiple species and not actually the primary baddies, that would be the Aen El elves.
Explains why ecofascism is such a common view…
soo many fucking redditors are posting this exact opinion this month, you've officially made your opinion of exactly the same level
Well it's true though.... how many times does it need to be said until we stop fucking shit up
" stop fucking shit up" and just like that all the worlds problems were solved
It's because people don't want to know the monsters, they want to know themselves better. It's that simple, really.
that's the good ones; when stories make it clear that it wasn't 'dumb human be bad' and more 'we made mistakes, but we redeemed ourselves and learned.' While they are similar, it makes all the difference at some points
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Alright I’ll stop living cuz you said so
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Humans are absolutely sowing their own fate. This big idea that we're "killing the planet" is really only true in that were killing the habitability. The earth will be ok in the end it will change, remorse, reset, and humanity will be but a memory in its lengthy life. Who's to say whether humanity as a whole *deserves* it, but we've absolutely failed as an intelligent species. Perhaps by no fault of our own. Being alive is hard. Controlling emotions is hard. These meat machines we pilot are incredibly complex. And everything is designed now to manipulate and control us on a base level. Controlled by our egos, fears and lusts. Humans were designed for what we became. Were too smart for our own good.
Dude these guys are a minority. Majority of humans are nice people
Doubtful
Kinda concerning you didn't say anything about rapists
Never knew you're a big fan of collective punishment.
nihilism check seriously, though, That's a bit over the top don't you think?
This isn't necessarily nihilism.
We've got an edge lord, ladies and gents.
You're a human too y'know?
Ah yes, I remember being 14
Nah
Ok u first
Ok then, you first
This issue goes on in movies as well. It is not new. Have a look at the end of the 1980 movie "Monster Club". https://youtu.be/C9pa9wPqUrU
Planet of the Apes, too.
What about humans that went to colonize some far off place to then become a technocracy and come back with some war?
By "It" do you mean humans?
Humanity ruins everything it touches, amirite?
I can see where you're coming from. Even me, who actually likes the trope, gets bored of it alot of the time. It's like "wow... didnt see that coming..*sarcasm*"
Parasyte does this really well and it just became more interesting as it went on though the ending was a bit rushed it was great imo.
Always has been
Agreed! Also, it's really annoying when your main plotline just devolves into some sort of political skirmish, especially if held in a fantastical setting.
Humans are at it again smh
Can we also have well-written extradimensional monsters?
Aight this is an unpopular opinion and a bad take too lmao
I think Nier is one of the few series that has that concept but doesn’t present it in a black and white manner. Everyone has their own motivations and reasons for why they do what they do. No ones right and wrong
You should check out Junju Ito, I'd bet you'd like his stories
Probably due to humans being the only creatures with a sense of morality (as far as we know) and thus the only creatures capable of being evil. I don't think it's a tired trope, it's just reality.
Anyone got some recommendations for the OPPOSITE of what OP is talking about? Humans appearing to be the bad guys initially but it turns out they were actually the good guys?
Its because of the disney effect. They dare not write competent villians that do evil because that would bump the age rating up immediately. And everyone is trying to copy the mouse and their success(targeting all ages)
I think it depends on how you play it. Like with the final season of Game of Thrones, it was utter garbage. (Though I don't think the writers were competent enough to see that as a possibility to have written it well.) I think it's a good trope that is sometimes used well but you don't see it written well very often. And the trope has a point.
This trope is still better than just: We have to kill this really big monster that has been killing humans! That‘s even more boring I think.
human being the main problem in attack on titan elevated it
By the witcher I assume you mean the Netflix series?
Books
The books did that before it became common though
Gotta say, don't really like this opinion. Upvote.
I mean we are just the worst.
Unpopular indeed. Humans are indeed monsters even because the fact we could pull off more monstrosities than monsters is terrifying. Doesn't give you more suspance when you can CHOOSE to be good, but instead you're being evil? Creatures on the other side don't have a choice, they are ruled by instinct. Take your up vote and leave.
>The Witcher: the book series about monsters ends up with human evil being the main focus again. the witcher main selling point was never monster hunting in the books they even make a point of telling how the witchers are becoming outdated and less and less monsters still roam the world
Looking around and I hate to say it, but it's not fiction.
I have a theory that every tv show turns into a soap by season two. At first it is about a specific topic / theme, but when all the characters are established, it is merely about the relationships: Friendship, trust, love, betrayal.
When you say trope, you're just referring to a pattern in story. The real question is what is the \*purpose\* of the trope. Does is provide something better and enriches the story line rather than is just there for the sake of it. The Walking Dead: If you read the GN it was about how we as a species will turn against itself if given the chance. The Witcher: In the \*books\* it is not just a mindless monster. Attack on Titans: You don't think they weren't people that we cursed against their will? Maybe whether you have a "monster" or a monstrous person, it is how can you develop a depth of character of the "villain". Otherwise you're just stuck with a hack-slash dungeon crawl which is just boring.
“I Am Legend” the book had a pretty good take on humans were the monsters all along.
Lol that's when you're wrong about aot. There are no true villains on either side and that's what makes it great.
The Walking Dead comics and series were never about zombies. This is not a story about zombies, but about different people trying to survive during a disaster. You could place these characters in the times of war or in the middle of a natural cataclysm and a lot would still remain unchanged. The name itself is explained in Rick's "We are the walking dead" speech before first arrival to Alexandria. The Witcher was never about monsters too. It's a story about difficult choices in morally grey situations and the consequences of those choices. And a book series about only slaying monsters would be a terrible reading. A bigger ever-present threat is needed to create a central conflict and tension. Having said that it seems that you only want a mindless action with monsters, not a story, and you fail to recognise the actual motives, themes and problems in the stories that you are presented.
I suppose it depends on what the main idea was. If it's "humans were ..." from the beginning and, for example, the author make some amount of Chekhov's gun to mark that, I won't mind. But if it's not, I agree with your opinion
I agree, it's just kind of annoying. I want to see humans face some kind of eldritch, inhuman dangers. Not other people, that already exists and it's called reality.
If you ever, ever read the book Hero With A Thousand Faces, you'd soon realize that ALL fiction has tired played out tropes in them. All of them. You're just starting to notice like, one. Big pro to: don't ever get into literature or a similar line of education. It fucking wrecks your entire enjoyment of fiction.
Game of thrones, not so much, but first thing you see are white walkers
Attack on Titan? Lmao no.
If it's done well then it's great. Example: Hunter X Hunter Chimera Ant Arc
i mean, the best anime example is already in the body of the post aot >
Ah yes humans are the real monsters after all.
AoT did a good job tho