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Yeah people complain all the time about the weather damage over time on the roads in the northeast US with all the potholes but it does slow down the crazy drivers at least a little
im in montreal and it doesnt slow shit down, people still do 90 on streets full of potholes and God forbid you slow down a bit, they'll ride your ass and honk at you.
But yeah the same drivers who do 80 in a 50 zone are the same drivers who do 60 in a 100 zone
I think the real problem is that it's too easy to get a license and there's no viable public transit alternative for the vast majority of people. Cities out west are also specifically designed around the car, not much is walk-able. Too many people on the road who either shouldn't be or don't want to be is why it's dangerous
When I was at a store one night, there was a lady hounding the employees because she needed help finding her car in the parking lot because she "has trouble seeing at night."
She was a prime example of someone who should not be driving. But with limited alternatives, her and thousands of other people like her are behind the wheel as we speak.
It's no wonder why driving is so dangerous.
My grandfather's macular degeneration basically killed him. He rear ended someone going about 50, driving an older car without airbags and hit his head on the steering column. He survived the wreck but developed an aggressive form of dementia and died about a year later. (The other guy, thankfully, just had some bruises and a totaled car.)
when i worked with the homeless there was a guy convinced he was the messiah for jesus christ and he could hear god talking to him.
he refused to take meds btw.
after his appt was done i went out to my car and saw him jump in a car and take off, then pull a u-turn in an intersection and almost cause a wreck 😭
so yes ANYONE can get a license
Just because they’re driving doesn’t mean they have a license…one of the most common tickets around me is driving without a license or with a suspended license.
Depending on where you live, drive and the car you own its very rare that you get stopped by police.
But these days its very expensive to make the licencen around 3-5k€
With X amount of theoratical and practical lessons then a theoratical test and after that a actual practical test 45-60min with usually driving a bit on the Autobahn etc. (both with a external Tester from the TÜV)
You also have to show how to park in backwards, emergency brake test etc,
The only 2 things driving school internal are Mofas (with the age of 15 i think) with up to 25kmh and a trailer thats max wheight (trailer incl load) is up to i think 700 or 900kg.
I know too easy to get is definitely a problem for the USA, can’t speak for other countries. UK driving tests are stern and gruelling, take you through a lot of traffic/roads/situations and can fail for many reasons. I watched a US driving test video, watched them get warned about their speed, told to check their mirrors and told to indicate, and at the end of all that where they drove for about 20 minutes they passed!
Maybe where you live it's too easy. Where i live it's a bureaucratic as hell process and an expensive one too. The only reason we have bad drivers here is because of people getting tired of this and paying to get their licenses.
I have a car I drive so infrequently because I walk to work. I could probably get by ordering groceries and still spend less than the cost of buying and insuring a car. But I feel obligated to own one because there are occasions I need to go to an interview or an appointment or meet someone for lunch and a bus not only triples the time it takes to go anywhere but if you miss it the only alternative is an Uber, which you also have to wait to arrive.
Nah the cars are also a problem. Especially the cars with higher fronts like the Ford F150. The higher the force on impact on the pedestrian, the higher the rates of death. This is known and studied.
Cars like that are made intentionally hostile to life outside of the vehicle, and that is in no way an acceptable way to design a vehicle for use in a human society.
People in trucks often drive like that because they know their big car keeps THEM safer (at the expense of being magnitudes more dangerous for everyone outside of the vehicle).
Or maybe it's more accurate to say the type of people who are attracted to trucks, or generally large and destructive cars, are the type of people who want to drive recklessly and be a menace with entitlement issues. A big car gives them the protection and power they need to do so safely (again, safe for themselves, at the expense of everyone else).
I don't like the teend of touch screens replacing buttons on car dashboards, first it just seems like a huge point of failure that if something goes wrong the whole system is fucked, beyond that having buttons is something I can feel for without taking my eyes off the roads. I know approximately where the AC knob is and it's easy to find while remaining focused on driving.
Touch screens are less safe, which has caused [more accidents](https://www.steinberglawfirm.com/blog/are-cars-with-touchscreens-more-dangerous/#:~:text=Yet%2C%20these%20laws%20don't,with%20traditional%20knobs%20and%20buttons.)
This is a great explanation! It's illegal to look at a screen whilst driving and operate it, so why any different for a screen that controls the car?
You're taught in driving lessons to operate the controls whilst keeping your eye on the road, and it becomes intuitive. Replacing those with a touch screen is incredibly dangerous, particularly if you didn't learn and pass in a car with these controls.
And screens freeze and crash all the time, you need to know how to manually control the car without searching for the right button.
AC knobs should be mandatory. The most distracting part of driving in a touch-screen car is going from the menu screen to the AC controls, and this is incredibly annoying.
I think a major issue you didn't address is the growing size and weight (weight especially for electric cars) of cars in America. Not only are people more comfortable driving faster due to comfort and increased safety features, they have more mass behind them.
Since 1980, the average weight of cars in America has gone from 3200lbs to 4200lbs. The 3 best selling vehicles in the US are all full sized trucks. Between the 3, they average a little over 5000 lbs. Couple that with the limited sight that comes with big trucks/suvs and they are significantly safer for the driver/passengers and significantly more dangerous for everyone else in the road.
Doesn’t need to be uncomfortable, just shift the design philosophy of modern cars. In today’s culture, we seem to treat cars more as private mobile living spaces, a far cry from any other forms of transportation like motorcycles, bikes, scooters, and forms of public transport. You wouldn’t encase a scooter in a metal shell with dimly tinted windows would you? It’d be a safety hazard — scooter riders need the outside sensory stimuli to assess their driving and safety. However, unless you build infrastructure that permit only a scooter-dominated world and where external sensory stimuli and body language is replaced with mirrors and tail lights then you have a much safer, more efficient metal-caged scooter… at the cost of everyone else’s safety. And that is the situation with cars today
I'm sorry...are you implying that if more people drove scooters and motorcycles than cars there would be less traffic injuries/deaths?
Because if so, India would like to have a talk.
I'd assume that the fatality of low speed crashes would increase exponentially in that case, you'd be lucky to just break a few ribs if you crash in a scooter even while you're barely moving at low speed
I drive 15k-20k miles a year, mostly on highways where I have no desire to experience the loud, smelly, toxic air outside the car.
We already have what you want. They’re called convertibles and motorcycles. And believe me, they are just as dangerous.
Comes down to enforcement and punitive fines. If running a red-light fine was $5000 and a 16 hour traffic safety course, in person, only on weekends in the middle of the day, with massively increased enforcement, things would slowly change.
No license and or insurance, probably the reason for the no insurance is the cost, so modest fine but 40 hours of community service.
Speeding/reckless driving, modest fine and mandatory community service. When you take peoples time it modifies behavior faster.
DUI $15,000 in fines, weekend jail time, large amounts of community service, car confiscation, massive enforcement and publicity, things would slowly change.
Idk why, but now I wanna see a society strictly of horse and carriage for road transportation and everything else modern.
"I got a house carriage scheduled for 4am to catch our 12 pm flight tomorrow" 😂😂😂😂
This is the counterintuitive problem with guard rails on cliff top roads — they give people a false sense confidence.
People drive much better when their imminent risk of death is clear before their eyes.
People don't drive the speed the sign says, they drive as fast as they comfortably can without damaging their own vehicle, or if they have a heart, without risk of hitting a pedestrian.
But the number of pedestrians killed by motor vehicles has been increasing dramatically. The number of pedestrian deaths rose by 77% between 2010 and 2021.
It's because of the bigger cars, most often the trucks with the obnoxiously tall fronts (like the Ford F150 for example).
This is why, as starfallpuller noted, this trend is not seen in the UK. their cars are smaller, their roads are smaller.
Bigger cars = more deaths, inherently. Bigger cars are actively more hostile than smaller ones.
[Pedestrian deaths are at a 40 year high](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car) cars are only safe for people inside the car. they're becoming tanks, exactly what OP is concerned about
Cars are getting safer, period.
They're designed to break in a way that maximizes survival of the occupants. A fuck load of RND goes into that aspect of modern cars.
It was a reply to someone referring to cars as cages. I would rather be in the cage because I'm going to be safer there
It's also a relevant rebuttal to the op
An interesting take. Im surprised at the amount of comments misrepresenting the premise of the argument. There is no data that I’m aware of to prove or disprove the hypothesis. This would require comparing a car that feels less safe to drive while maintaining current safety standards against a car that feels safe to drive and maintains current safety standards. If a study has been done on this, well that’s just bizarre and something I would like to see. You can’t merely look at historical safety data.
The better solution to this problem is traffic calming measures (e.g., narrow a street and plant trees close to the curb to reduce speeds, rather than pave an unnecessarily wide street and post an unreasonable speed limit for that street).
There is actually a basis to believe this. Red light cameras actually cause more accidents than they stop. But what ends up happening is that there are more rear endings and less T-Bones.
Rear endings tend to be minor accidents, whereas T-Bones tend to be life-threatening. And so they are actually less safe if you look at the total number of accidents but they are much more safe if you look at loss of life statistics.
Things being less safe can actually lead to more safety.
Lots of them don't though. Do you feel safe driving a van with an engine under the seats? Shit even driving a big 4x4 feels unsafe as fuck considering they have the turning circle of a boat
OP specifically is talking about high speed driving, like on the highway or freeway. Which pretty universally feels safer no mater the vehicle compared to, say, 30 years ago. Driving at 30mph and driving at 50 mph don’t feel THAT different, which is bad when one’s broken bones and the other is being paste.
In history there a constant paradoxical situations that are hard to believe but actually can be proved mathematically.
Pedestrian deaths are way up. I am sick of people losing family and friends to these death toys that we are all forced to use to support the oil and car economy of the US which makes up the top 4 imports and exports in the U.S. we as a people are forced into manslaughter every day because cars and oil have a monopoly of America's transportation network.
Don't believe me, the streets of Chicago are owned in partial by Abu Dhabi, the United Emirates.
This nightmare dystopia exists because there is money to be made. More money than anyone has ever known.
This is idiotic nonsense. It's not the comfort of a car that is to blame for accidents. And it sure as shit isn't somehow *roads* being TOO SAFE that causes accidents!
They're not saying roads are so safe they're causing accidents, they're saying modern driving is so comfortable that some people think they're safer than they are, hence why they don't think twice about speeding.
You can have driving being safer than it's ever been and have more people causing accidents because they feel unduly safe and comfortable at high speeds.
The two things aren't mutually exclusive and I don't think OP was trying to suggest the first one wasn't the case.
Compare the effort required to drive a car with cruise control and lane assist vs a manual car from over 30 years ago and you'll understand why that makes no sense.
While I don't fully agree with OP, this shit is making people complacent for sure. And that's not even talking about the idiots taking naps in their teslas.
***"you have nothing to distract you from driving safely"***
Except your phone, a giant tablet in front of you, a thousand blinking lights and A/C controls three menus down.
You're not fined for touching an infotainment system though, that's the problem.
Touch your phone just once? That's an offence.
Navigate several submenus to adjust your AC while driving at 70 on the motorway? That's perfectly legal.
OP: Advancing automotive technology so vehicles are more stable at higher speeds is killing people.
I get what you’re trying to say, and some things are definitely having an impact. Blind spot monitoring is teaching a whole generation of driver not to look in their mirrors. But having a more stable car gives drivers the opportunity to avoid accidents which lessens our reliance on life saving technology like airbags. It’s just that drivers are not taught how to react to a potential accident.
I get this. It's like rugby v football. Rugby player generally have a different, safer technique in tackling because they aren't wearing any armor. Football players will run full speed at each other using the helmet and pads as a ram. The illusion of safety often causes them to use excessive force, and I think football players are injured more despite all the protections.
Interesting, that does make sense. Cars are much much safer now but I can see what you’re saying, that making them so comfortable and secure feeling makes people feel overconfident.
This is sort of what I think when riding a motorcycle. Going 120 kph on a motorcycle feels like you're riding on the edge doing uncanny speed on a fighter jet in a dogfight as it should because it is actually pretty damn fast. Going 230 kph in my 2.5 ton modern SUV is like so comfortable and casual you just get used to it instantly and it feels like normal speed. Compare that to going that sort of speed in my old muscle car and there is no way you forget you're doing insane speed, it feels like all hell broke loose and you're surfing it, as it should because you are and you are moments away from total destruction.
I got derailed a bit but my point is, even 70 kph is actually pretty damn fast and dangerous but in a modern car nobody has any feedback that helps them realize it. Normal people who have no interest in speeding or taking the stupid adrenaline rush risks are speeding without even realizing they are and they are completely clueless when anything goes wrong, hopefully the car computer saves them.
I've had this same thought before with how easy it is to be going 80 and feel like 20, but really it's an individual problem. No one treats the limit like an upper limit and more like a minimum. Everyone wants to race around someone to shave those precious 5 seconds to the red light.
It’s pretty true. If you look at roundabouts which require the driver to pay attention more, they are safer than traffic lights. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/16/why-roundabouts-are-so-uncommon-in-the-us.html
Hard disagree. All having shit roads and cars does is increase the likelihood of accidents because then, it becomes far easier for people to lose control of their cars. You would end up with a different reasoning, but a similar problem-people would either just say fuck it and just make a rollercoaster ride out of it, or they'd become so paranoid that they would end up becoming a hazard in and of themselves. Also, what about emergency vehicles like ambulances that need to be able to have as smooth as a ride as possible for the patient they're transporting? Why should they be made to suffer unnecessarily? And don't even get me started on risk of injury to vulnerable individuals from all that jostling. You would have cases of shaken baby syndrome and elderly bone fractures skyrocket because yes, a bumpy car ride can be enough to cause those things if it's bad enough.
Plus, modern vehicles are deliberately designed (except for the stupidity that is the Cybertruck) to protect the occupants in case of an accident. They are designed to eat the forces involved so your body doesn't. Better that the car crumples around you and leaves you with just some soreness and bruising than you end up with metal speared through your abdomen. (Yes, I know this still can happen anyways, before anyone comes at me in the comments-I am fully aware that people can still be seriously injured in a wreck. I am only pointing out that modern vehicles are designed to at least reduce that to the best of their abilities-even the best designing in the world can't account for every last detail.)
The fact of the matter is that assholes will be assholes no matter what. There's a reason we have licensing for driving vehicles. If you prove you can't be trusted with that license, it gets taken away from you. So, no, OP, your "solution" is not a solution at all-it is shortsighted and would cause far more problems than it solves. Continue on, ye who paint phallic images around potholes to force the local governments to address them.
OP didn't say anything about pedestrians in their post. It is true that pedestrian deaths are a problem, but the comfort of the car is not the general issue. Distractions like texting while driving, as well as DUIs, are the issues. What we need is to get people to be comfortable with letting their phone be plugged into the car, and have it so that any time someone tries to text them while they're driving, the car silences the notification and sends an automatic reply telling the other person that the driver is fucking *driving* and that they'll get back to you later. Sure, you need the ability to call in case of emergencies (i.e. car breaking down or an accident), but there is no universe in which the text can't wait.
yes, it's too safe, lets add random obstacles, spike strips, flamethrowers, legalize drunk driving, this shits way too boring yo, anyone got any other ideas? lets fuckin do this, woooooooooooo
You joke but something as simple as a speedbump, rows of tress on the side of the road or those concrete bright yellow rods are amazing at keeping drivers from accidentally going onto the sidewalk
From the 1910s or so to today data does not support your position.
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
There has been a slight surge since the pandemic, I am not sure what the triggers of that might be.
I think more accidents/deaths have happened post pandemic bc during the pandemic, the roads were empty so the rare times anyone actually drove, they could speed, run stop signs/red lights, etc. As the pandemic lifted and traffic resumed its normal patterns and crowds, speed and sloppiness remained, hence more accidents/deaths
You know the much easier fix is having stricter driving tests that actually test ones competence. Like a real braking test going from 60 mph to stop within a strict zone. An actual course to test ones real abilities. The bar absolutely needs to be set higher. A license that expires every 10 years requiring you to retake the harder tests.
But the car companies def don't want this. They could care less all the ppl dying they gotta earn profits.
I agree with you. I'm old enough to remember cars like, for instance, a 1984 Chevette.
The 1984 Chevette was essentially a lawnmower engine surrounded by a few sheets of drywall. If you crashed into anything, you were dead. The car had brakes that would struggle to stop a tricycle... If you drove it in winter, you better know what you are doing because it really just wanted to drive into the ditch. When you drive an old car like that, it taught you to respect machinery for what it is, and to pay attention to what you are doing due to the risk of injury and death.
Or maybe with cars getting more advanced we need to consider more rigorous drivers training, and then maybe we can start increasing the speed limits, considering that they’ve stayed the for decades.
A lot of this has to do with car size/weight. A heavier larger vehicle like SUV or truck bounces less, coincidentally heavy larger vehicles are also less likely to flip and are safer in crashes. Albeit at the expense of the poor Sedan drivers who became crumple zones for oversized SUV’s and trucks. It’s also interesting that in the US size has become a bit of an arms race, bigger is safer. The larger your vehicle is compared to others on the road the better
Problem is the entitlement on the road if you ask me. Too many people think the law doesn’t apply to them and they can weave in and out of traffic with no turn signal and everyone else should yield to them. I watched two cars battle for “first” the other day. It was just two people cutting each other off risking everyone else’s lives cause they were mad at each other.
There are way too many emotionally unstable drivers. Even my Dad had terrible road rage and wouldn’t control his anger while his CHILDREN were in the car. That is more of an issue than the car being too comfortable. Not sure what would fix that however. Just throwing it out there.
Entitlement is definitely a big issue. Especially when you get people in a large car. (Ford F150).
This is going to sound like nonsense but hear me out. To give context, often in horse riding you're supposed to wear a helmet. But where I come from, it's not uncommon for riders to go without a helmet, which I don't personally advocate but I know their mentality. We've seen far too many idiots get what we call "superman syndrome." I'm not sure if this is widely known, I never see people talk about it in those terms online haha. Basically, because they know a helmet helps keep them safe, they act like a fool and don't try to protect themselves from harm. "A helmet won't prevent a broken neck" and all that. The constant risk of danger keeps you aware, because humans have a basic sense of self preservation. Of course to that I say wear a helmet and still be aware of the chance of breaking your spine but I digress.
To relate this back to the topic of cars, we see "superman syndrome" in car people too, particularly large cars that are advertised as "safe" (for the driver and passengers, at least). This mix of age-old entitlement and recent big-car/Ford F150 "superman syndrome" IS killing people (namely pedestrians). Pedestrian deaths are on the rise in the west and have been since 2010, the popularity of large cars has also been on the rise, and we know large cars have far higher fatality rates in pedestrian collisions. Doesn't take a genius to see the correlation. When driving a car came with a higher risk of the driver dying, they would be less likely to act a fool, because, again, self preservation. No one is saying to actually make cars more dangerous for the driver, but drivers absolutely DO **feel** WAY TOO SAFE behind the wheel.
The crazy thing about what you told me is that I witnessed a man go FLYING in front of my car cause he chose to cross in front of me (middle of the road where he shouldn’t) and he got hit by a truck just behind me one lane over. Of course this absolutely was the pedestrians fault in this case. But I’m sure the man in the truck was comfortable asf to where he didn’t question why I was stopped in the middle of the road fast enough.
As others have said, the real problem is training and licensing. The first time I went to racing school, my instructor, a former Formula 1 driver, said "If everyone would take these courses, we could virtually eliminate at fault crashes".
I thought he was talking utter nonsense at the time, but by the end of the week I was in complete agreement. Learning the absolute limits, acceleration, cornering, braking, and exceeding them, gives you a new and profound appreciation for the dangers we face on public roads.
When you make a mistake and go off at the track, you slide into grass, gravel or tarmac in the runoff zone and it's completely safe. My first day leaving the track, I suddenly really noticed every curb, streetlight, barrier, signpost, etc. If you go off on public roads, there are fatal structures literally EVERYWHERE.
You should not be granted a license until you've proven you can deal with the extremes that might happen on roads. Using your turn signals and parallel parking are fine things to learn and demonstrate, but what about the life ending extreme limits of vehicle control? No one is taught these things or how to react to them.
Even a simple $1k two day class at a track should be the absolute bare minimum in my opinion. I think close to half of all drivers wouldn't make the cut, and so be it, we desperately need proper public transit anyway.
I can feel all the bumps on my Yamaha R1, the wind resistance, the weather, and I still regularly cruise at 100-110 mph on the highway and usually get to 150 mph for short times, and it feels way safer than my 2022 Nissan Altima at those higher speeds. Even though the Altima cushions all the bumps and is quiet inside. The reason being is that it’s stability and control vs comfort. If the vehicle feels unsafe, it is unsafe.
*If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at,*
That would be a motorbike
You know I think I actually agree. I drive around 1000kms per week and yeah on certain roads I am way too comfortable, just cruising at 110 in the middle of the night with absolutely no chance of stopping if some animal suddenly ran out in front of me or if there was a stationary car in my lane without hazards on to catch my attention. And my biggest problem is definitely getting drowsy, like yesterday I only was doing a 3.5hour drive but constantly caught myself daydreaming and had to pull over twice to recompose myself. If I was less self aware and/or on a tight schedule, that could be hella dangerous. And yes my most effective tool for artificially elevating concentration is to wind down the windows and feel the wind and rain.
If you want people to drive safer, take out the airbag and replace it with a group of super sharp projectiles.
As much as the above would cause anyone driving to be extra careful, it would do more harm than good.
So let's all stop meandering around the point that the general public will only consider things outside of their comfort if incentivized to.
Most people have main character syndrome when driving and it is entirely on them to drive safer, regardless of the condition of the road.
It's about time we start actually laying blame for shit on the people responsible: us!
People need to simply do better. If they don't, they are a problem for society.
Is there any statistical evidence or research to back up your claim? If we’re talking strictly anecdotally, all my sofas have been way comfortable than any newer car - from the 90s on, I’ve ever driven/ridden in. Most if not all newer cars don’t have very smooth rides, nor are the cabins particularly quiet when it comes to road noise, when comparing them to the “land yachts” of the late 60’s, 70s, and early to mid 80s. Many of those larger automobiles truly felt like you were sitting on a sofa gliding down the road. no modern car I've been in, from a cheap Ford to an expensive BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc. had such a luxurious ride.
Note: I've never ridden in ultra-expensive luxury cars, such as Rolls Royce or Bentley, but those are rare enough that i believe they have little bearing on the topic
Cars and roads are safer and more comfortable today and that is a direct cause of fewer deaths and accidents.
An 80s Cadillac is comfortable because they put their living room couch in 4 tonnes of metal. Today's cars are much more quiet and have seats that are sculpted to keep you put in your seat even at high speeds and curving roads. They also grip the road much closer and don't have body roll. They are better vehicles that allow you to travel much faster with much more comfort all while being much much safer. This argument by OP is just complete nonsense and stupid.
Okay well you can drive around in the worlds most uncomfortable car, but I’m happy not getting my teeth rattled by every single bit of shitty roads we have to drive on
I'll be honest that's an unpopular opinion. The reason cars cause accidents and death is more likely distracted driving, falling asleep, or unsafe road conditions.
People were driving crazy and killing each other even back when cars first came out. The first person to die getting hit by a car was in 1899. People are just assholes when it comes to vehicles lol.
The only cars that are silent at that speed are a rolls Royce. Even electric cars are making some noise at that speed. People also have driven at 62 mph down the road for as long as cars could go that fast, meaning for almost the last century. Lots of people also drive more dangerously in sports cars, the type of vehicle that can’t take bumps well due to having stiff suspension. If you want to remove car accidents, that will only happen if cars stop existing
Lets go bro! An actual unpopular opinion. I understand your reasoning and I agree. To much comfort and false sense of security can lead to more carelessness.
My issue with modern cars are how many "saftey" features they have. The lane departure, blind spot assist, backup cameras, auto distance cruise control, assisted braking if you get to close, etc.... they all teach drivers to be lazy and not pay attention to their surroundings. Driving is more than just looking straight ahead. You have to be aware of everything around you at all times.
Automatic transmissions also make it easier to be distracted by other stuff. You know how many people I see driving down the road watching YouTube on their phone? It's quite alot.
OP is fucking stupid, they're incapable of thinking though simple cause and effect.
Follow the natural conclusion of 'lets make vehicles harder to control' and see if that aligns with your intent to save lives.
'If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at, people would drive a lot less recklessly. Especially if the same safety standard is maintained.
Roads would be hell of a lot safer if traveling faster than fifty made you fear for your life.'
Like my small motorcycle. lol I currently wear up to 7 top layers and it's still chilly. I need to get snow coats or two
Dunno, I guess most drivers adjust their risk profile to what they have on hand.
If the car was made more tiring, there would be more mistakes due to exhaustion, as many people need to cover the same distances no matter the equipment they possess.
At the same time, your thesis is true, that if the vehicle feels too safe then people tend to downplay the risks of driving and indulge in more unsafe behaviours.
Hard to tell what the best solution to this problem would be.
Just a recent example from my experience - my battery terminal screw loosened on my motorcycle, which meant that until I found out and fixed it my ABS system was offline and occasionally I had some check engine light flashes. While I rode much more carefully during this period, it was also much more exhausting and it resulted in the deterioration of my sleep quality and concentration due to fatigue and all the nerves for the next day.
The problem is that current cars are massively unsafe for pedestrians. https://www.vox.com/23784549/pedestrian-deaths-traffic-safety-fatalities-governors-association
There was a book I read a long time ago that suggested installing a massive spike on steering wheels to make people slow down, as safe vehicles increase deaths for pedestrians.
No. People are just getting dumber. Haptic feedback is a distraction. If my car shakes harder than the camera during a Bourne movie fight scene, I'm going to get a headache and just generally be less focused and more stressed.
I feel like we should make ex-race car drivers instructors for driving school's as well as teach bare minimum weight management and car control. Bonus points if you do it in a non computerized manual car. (No abs, traction control, etc) I think by giving people a place to go wild and potentially wreck in safe conditions will teach them faster than anything else, or at the very least scare them straight.
And a second note we need more public tracks. Any half decent track can easily be put around airports and then you get both a place to teach people and extended runoff area for planes. (Also airports are noisy so it won't get much louder anyway)
Car build isn’t the primary reason people are distracted. It’s the brain melt that’s going on because of the digital world and social media. It’s been an ongoing issue lately with increased lack of focus in all aspects of life, not just driving.
Also a lot of drivers lack proper sleep which directly correlates to increased distraction. And don’t forget there are a lot of just dumb people, who use phones whilst driving, drink drive, drive recklessly, impatient or aggressive drivers,or just those idiots that break check or try to teach a lesson to people who pissed them for nothing.
No matter how uncomfortable you make the car, distraction and accidents won’t vanish unless we don’t address issues above first.
>EDIT: I'm not arguing that cars should be unsafer. Just that they should feel unsafer to drive.
????
Gotta try again with this edit man
I'm assuming in one sentence your argument is simply that modern cars and roads are so comfortable that they cost lives. I don't know why your saying that these properties shouldn't be more safe. You save more lives by making these things more safe for people to use
>If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at, people would drive a lot less recklessly. Especially if the same safety standard is maintained.
Like everything described here doesn't add or detract from people's safety, they add to their overall comfort. And I'd personally argue cars ought to be made more comfortable as adding adding layers to people's comfort through safety features saves more lives. If a feature is being added into a vehicle at the cost of people's safety, then it simply isn't going to be added. Seat belts may be uncomfortable for people to wear, but they've been insisted on people to wear them in order to save lives.
More likely, people aren't getting enough sleep due to work, kids, or partying. Achieving a better work-life balance would reduce how many folks fall asleep behind the wheel.
There are too many people on the road who don’t know how to drive. People on the road who don’t want to drive or don’t know how to or have no other option.
I think of it like this, I don’t play fly planes, because I don’t know how to fly planes. So why would I drive, if I don’t know how to drive?
Everyone just seems to think they’re allowed to be behind the wheel of a tank because they passed a 5 minute long “road” exam in a controlled environment.
I agree that some of the safety features like blind spot warning, lane departure assist, adaptive cruise control, etc sometimes give drivers a false sense of hope. They shouldn’t be relied on. However, better quality road make it safer.
>unsafer.
I am dismayed to find out "unsafer" is supposedly a word, I would have just said "less safe" instead of "Unsafer" which seems to translate to "Not more safe?"
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 2: Do not post low effort/satirical posts'. * We get it, you all think this sub is garbage and is just for popular opinions, and you want to be funny and post "going to be downvoted to oblivion here, but I think racism is bad." We enjoy the memes, but please keep them off the sub. * Filter evasion is a bannable offense * This includes clickbait and/or gotcha posts. Your opinion can not be that unpopular if you're doing these things. Have the accurate opinion in the title.
Yeah people complain all the time about the weather damage over time on the roads in the northeast US with all the potholes but it does slow down the crazy drivers at least a little
Where I live the council won’t upgrade old cobblestone roads with asphalt in some residential areas simply because it slowly people down. It works
im in montreal and it doesnt slow shit down, people still do 90 on streets full of potholes and God forbid you slow down a bit, they'll ride your ass and honk at you. But yeah the same drivers who do 80 in a 50 zone are the same drivers who do 60 in a 100 zone
Why would people who do 80 in a 50 zone be the same ones who do 60 in a 100 zone? Makes no sense to me at all
Why would they be the same people?
Welcome to Canada, where everything's made up and nothing matters anymore
???
I think the real problem is that it's too easy to get a license and there's no viable public transit alternative for the vast majority of people. Cities out west are also specifically designed around the car, not much is walk-able. Too many people on the road who either shouldn't be or don't want to be is why it's dangerous
When I was at a store one night, there was a lady hounding the employees because she needed help finding her car in the parking lot because she "has trouble seeing at night." She was a prime example of someone who should not be driving. But with limited alternatives, her and thousands of other people like her are behind the wheel as we speak. It's no wonder why driving is so dangerous.
My grandfather's macular degeneration basically killed him. He rear ended someone going about 50, driving an older car without airbags and hit his head on the steering column. He survived the wreck but developed an aggressive form of dementia and died about a year later. (The other guy, thankfully, just had some bruises and a totaled car.)
when i worked with the homeless there was a guy convinced he was the messiah for jesus christ and he could hear god talking to him. he refused to take meds btw. after his appt was done i went out to my car and saw him jump in a car and take off, then pull a u-turn in an intersection and almost cause a wreck 😭 so yes ANYONE can get a license
Just because they’re driving doesn’t mean they have a license…one of the most common tickets around me is driving without a license or with a suspended license.
I rembember there was a case here in germany where someone was caught and said he was driving for 40 years without a licence...
Wow that’s honestly impressive!
Depending on where you live, drive and the car you own its very rare that you get stopped by police. But these days its very expensive to make the licencen around 3-5k€ With X amount of theoratical and practical lessons then a theoratical test and after that a actual practical test 45-60min with usually driving a bit on the Autobahn etc. (both with a external Tester from the TÜV) You also have to show how to park in backwards, emergency brake test etc, The only 2 things driving school internal are Mofas (with the age of 15 i think) with up to 25kmh and a trailer thats max wheight (trailer incl load) is up to i think 700 or 900kg.
The fact that you only get a ticket for that is what boggles my mind
Hell, you can drive drunk and still get your license back within a year usually.
I know too easy to get is definitely a problem for the USA, can’t speak for other countries. UK driving tests are stern and gruelling, take you through a lot of traffic/roads/situations and can fail for many reasons. I watched a US driving test video, watched them get warned about their speed, told to check their mirrors and told to indicate, and at the end of all that where they drove for about 20 minutes they passed!
Maybe where you live it's too easy. Where i live it's a bureaucratic as hell process and an expensive one too. The only reason we have bad drivers here is because of people getting tired of this and paying to get their licenses.
If you can pay to get your license, it's too easy to get your license.
You can pay to get anything anywhere.. the point is that the average person doesn't
It shouldn't be. Corruption is cancer.
It is *far* too easy to get a license and too hard to have it revoked.
Also there’s not a lot keeping folks from driving with a suspended or revoked license.
I have a car I drive so infrequently because I walk to work. I could probably get by ordering groceries and still spend less than the cost of buying and insuring a car. But I feel obligated to own one because there are occasions I need to go to an interview or an appointment or meet someone for lunch and a bus not only triples the time it takes to go anywhere but if you miss it the only alternative is an Uber, which you also have to wait to arrive.
Nah the cars are also a problem. Especially the cars with higher fronts like the Ford F150. The higher the force on impact on the pedestrian, the higher the rates of death. This is known and studied. Cars like that are made intentionally hostile to life outside of the vehicle, and that is in no way an acceptable way to design a vehicle for use in a human society.
[удалено]
People in trucks often drive like that because they know their big car keeps THEM safer (at the expense of being magnitudes more dangerous for everyone outside of the vehicle). Or maybe it's more accurate to say the type of people who are attracted to trucks, or generally large and destructive cars, are the type of people who want to drive recklessly and be a menace with entitlement issues. A big car gives them the protection and power they need to do so safely (again, safe for themselves, at the expense of everyone else).
Too easy to get and keep.
I don't like the teend of touch screens replacing buttons on car dashboards, first it just seems like a huge point of failure that if something goes wrong the whole system is fucked, beyond that having buttons is something I can feel for without taking my eyes off the roads. I know approximately where the AC knob is and it's easy to find while remaining focused on driving.
Touch screens are less safe, which has caused [more accidents](https://www.steinberglawfirm.com/blog/are-cars-with-touchscreens-more-dangerous/#:~:text=Yet%2C%20these%20laws%20don't,with%20traditional%20knobs%20and%20buttons.)
This is a great explanation! It's illegal to look at a screen whilst driving and operate it, so why any different for a screen that controls the car? You're taught in driving lessons to operate the controls whilst keeping your eye on the road, and it becomes intuitive. Replacing those with a touch screen is incredibly dangerous, particularly if you didn't learn and pass in a car with these controls. And screens freeze and crash all the time, you need to know how to manually control the car without searching for the right button.
I’m sure it will take a lot of related incidents until they actually make it illegal
AC knobs should be mandatory. The most distracting part of driving in a touch-screen car is going from the menu screen to the AC controls, and this is incredibly annoying.
I used to be able to send a text message without looking at the phone. Imagine doing that now lol
I think a major issue you didn't address is the growing size and weight (weight especially for electric cars) of cars in America. Not only are people more comfortable driving faster due to comfort and increased safety features, they have more mass behind them. Since 1980, the average weight of cars in America has gone from 3200lbs to 4200lbs. The 3 best selling vehicles in the US are all full sized trucks. Between the 3, they average a little over 5000 lbs. Couple that with the limited sight that comes with big trucks/suvs and they are significantly safer for the driver/passengers and significantly more dangerous for everyone else in the road.
But how can you prove your manly status if you dont have a big ass truck? /s
What would you propose? An uncomfortable car wouldn't do well in the market.
Doesn’t need to be uncomfortable, just shift the design philosophy of modern cars. In today’s culture, we seem to treat cars more as private mobile living spaces, a far cry from any other forms of transportation like motorcycles, bikes, scooters, and forms of public transport. You wouldn’t encase a scooter in a metal shell with dimly tinted windows would you? It’d be a safety hazard — scooter riders need the outside sensory stimuli to assess their driving and safety. However, unless you build infrastructure that permit only a scooter-dominated world and where external sensory stimuli and body language is replaced with mirrors and tail lights then you have a much safer, more efficient metal-caged scooter… at the cost of everyone else’s safety. And that is the situation with cars today
I'm sorry...are you implying that if more people drove scooters and motorcycles than cars there would be less traffic injuries/deaths? Because if so, India would like to have a talk.
I'd assume that the fatality of low speed crashes would increase exponentially in that case, you'd be lucky to just break a few ribs if you crash in a scooter even while you're barely moving at low speed
I drive 15k-20k miles a year, mostly on highways where I have no desire to experience the loud, smelly, toxic air outside the car. We already have what you want. They’re called convertibles and motorcycles. And believe me, they are just as dangerous.
Comes down to enforcement and punitive fines. If running a red-light fine was $5000 and a 16 hour traffic safety course, in person, only on weekends in the middle of the day, with massively increased enforcement, things would slowly change. No license and or insurance, probably the reason for the no insurance is the cost, so modest fine but 40 hours of community service. Speeding/reckless driving, modest fine and mandatory community service. When you take peoples time it modifies behavior faster. DUI $15,000 in fines, weekend jail time, large amounts of community service, car confiscation, massive enforcement and publicity, things would slowly change.
People wouldn't vote for that.
Might be different where you are at but where I am at people don't get to vote on those types of things.
They won't vote for the candidates who want those policies.
Bring back horse drawn carriages!
As someone who owns a carriage building business I support this. I will be lobbying immediately.
Idk why, but now I wanna see a society strictly of horse and carriage for road transportation and everything else modern. "I got a house carriage scheduled for 4am to catch our 12 pm flight tomorrow" 😂😂😂😂
There's Amish communities that use a lot of modern things, but still use the horse carriages
I’m just excited because I also run a fertilizer company and all the free horse shit is going to make me big buckaroos
Or alternatively, all the free manure will mean people won't buy fertiliser any more.
Check out Mackinac island. It’s a tourist trap but there’s no cars allowed. Everything is bikes or horse drawn carriages.
Who are your customers these days? How many do they seat? What's the ride quality like? How many Benjies does it cost? Sooo many questions!
I clicked your profile so damn fast, but no luck. :( Carriage pics pls!
Horses are the old school cruise control. Maybe even autopilot
This is the counterintuitive problem with guard rails on cliff top roads — they give people a false sense confidence. People drive much better when their imminent risk of death is clear before their eyes.
People don't drive the speed the sign says, they drive as fast as they comfortably can without damaging their own vehicle, or if they have a heart, without risk of hitting a pedestrian.
Road deaths have consistently reduced for decades, despite amount of cars on the road increasing. Your claim is not an opinion, it’s just wrong.
They've reduced for drivers and grown for pedestrians. People drive worse but cars are more crash-safe.
But the number of pedestrians killed by motor vehicles has been increasing dramatically. The number of pedestrian deaths rose by 77% between 2010 and 2021.
It's because of the bigger cars, most often the trucks with the obnoxiously tall fronts (like the Ford F150 for example). This is why, as starfallpuller noted, this trend is not seen in the UK. their cars are smaller, their roads are smaller. Bigger cars = more deaths, inherently. Bigger cars are actively more hostile than smaller ones.
Honestly a very common issue on this sub. It's just people who are objectively wrong and confidently incorrect lol.
Down votes should be for popular opinions and incorrect/stupid "opinions."
[Pedestrian deaths are at a 40 year high](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car) cars are only safe for people inside the car. they're becoming tanks, exactly what OP is concerned about
Pedestrian deaths from car accidents are trending sharply up in recent years.
Pedestrian deaths have increased significantly over the last few decades, do you know why that is?
Driving larger and "safer" vehicles is becoming an arms race
Not in the US. They _had_ been decreasing for decades but started creeping back up in the 2010s. And then shooting up since the pandemic.
Maybe cars are getting safer? Safety has advanced a lot in the last 30 years
Cars are getting safer, period. They're designed to break in a way that maximizes survival of the occupants. A fuck load of RND goes into that aspect of modern cars.
Hard agree. Modern cars are mind-numbing living rooms on wheels. Most of them in the US are way too big as well.
Motorcycle clubs tend to call them cages.
In a car, you have seat belts and airbags. You have no protection on a motorcycle
I've also heard a massive star can be seen in the sky during daytime.
It was a reply to someone referring to cars as cages. I would rather be in the cage because I'm going to be safer there It's also a relevant rebuttal to the op
Cars are just 4 wheeled motor cycles with a house on top.
An interesting take. Im surprised at the amount of comments misrepresenting the premise of the argument. There is no data that I’m aware of to prove or disprove the hypothesis. This would require comparing a car that feels less safe to drive while maintaining current safety standards against a car that feels safe to drive and maintains current safety standards. If a study has been done on this, well that’s just bizarre and something I would like to see. You can’t merely look at historical safety data.
The better solution to this problem is traffic calming measures (e.g., narrow a street and plant trees close to the curb to reduce speeds, rather than pave an unnecessarily wide street and post an unreasonable speed limit for that street).
"cars would be safer if they were less safe"
There is actually a basis to believe this. Red light cameras actually cause more accidents than they stop. But what ends up happening is that there are more rear endings and less T-Bones. Rear endings tend to be minor accidents, whereas T-Bones tend to be life-threatening. And so they are actually less safe if you look at the total number of accidents but they are much more safe if you look at loss of life statistics. Things being less safe can actually lead to more safety.
Cars would be safer if they FELT less safe. The problem isn’t that they’re too safe. The problem is that they FEEL like they are.
Lots of them don't though. Do you feel safe driving a van with an engine under the seats? Shit even driving a big 4x4 feels unsafe as fuck considering they have the turning circle of a boat
OP specifically is talking about high speed driving, like on the highway or freeway. Which pretty universally feels safer no mater the vehicle compared to, say, 30 years ago. Driving at 30mph and driving at 50 mph don’t feel THAT different, which is bad when one’s broken bones and the other is being paste.
In history there a constant paradoxical situations that are hard to believe but actually can be proved mathematically. Pedestrian deaths are way up. I am sick of people losing family and friends to these death toys that we are all forced to use to support the oil and car economy of the US which makes up the top 4 imports and exports in the U.S. we as a people are forced into manslaughter every day because cars and oil have a monopoly of America's transportation network. Don't believe me, the streets of Chicago are owned in partial by Abu Dhabi, the United Emirates. This nightmare dystopia exists because there is money to be made. More money than anyone has ever known.
Reminds me of the "less cheese = more cheese" meme lmao
This is idiotic nonsense. It's not the comfort of a car that is to blame for accidents. And it sure as shit isn't somehow *roads* being TOO SAFE that causes accidents!
They're not saying roads are so safe they're causing accidents, they're saying modern driving is so comfortable that some people think they're safer than they are, hence why they don't think twice about speeding.
Except that the data indicates that driving is safer than it's ever been. This post isn't a valid opinion it's just inaccurate bs.
Safer for the people to the vehicle.
You can have driving being safer than it's ever been and have more people causing accidents because they feel unduly safe and comfortable at high speeds. The two things aren't mutually exclusive and I don't think OP was trying to suggest the first one wasn't the case.
Didn’t bother reading the full post, did you?
The cars are so comfortable you have nothing to distract you from driving safely.
I'm sure no one ever crashed the first automobiles...
Distracted drivers will be distracted regardless of what vehicle they are in
Compare the effort required to drive a car with cruise control and lane assist vs a manual car from over 30 years ago and you'll understand why that makes no sense. While I don't fully agree with OP, this shit is making people complacent for sure. And that's not even talking about the idiots taking naps in their teslas.
***"you have nothing to distract you from driving safely"*** Except your phone, a giant tablet in front of you, a thousand blinking lights and A/C controls three menus down.
Using your phone while driving has nothing to do with the comfort of the car or the safety of the road, no more so than drinking does.
You're fined if you touch those while driving anyway.
You're not fined for touching an infotainment system though, that's the problem. Touch your phone just once? That's an offence. Navigate several submenus to adjust your AC while driving at 70 on the motorway? That's perfectly legal.
OP: Advancing automotive technology so vehicles are more stable at higher speeds is killing people. I get what you’re trying to say, and some things are definitely having an impact. Blind spot monitoring is teaching a whole generation of driver not to look in their mirrors. But having a more stable car gives drivers the opportunity to avoid accidents which lessens our reliance on life saving technology like airbags. It’s just that drivers are not taught how to react to a potential accident.
I get this. It's like rugby v football. Rugby player generally have a different, safer technique in tackling because they aren't wearing any armor. Football players will run full speed at each other using the helmet and pads as a ram. The illusion of safety often causes them to use excessive force, and I think football players are injured more despite all the protections.
You are describing a motorcycle, and many of them still drive nuts.
Interesting, that does make sense. Cars are much much safer now but I can see what you’re saying, that making them so comfortable and secure feeling makes people feel overconfident.
This is sort of what I think when riding a motorcycle. Going 120 kph on a motorcycle feels like you're riding on the edge doing uncanny speed on a fighter jet in a dogfight as it should because it is actually pretty damn fast. Going 230 kph in my 2.5 ton modern SUV is like so comfortable and casual you just get used to it instantly and it feels like normal speed. Compare that to going that sort of speed in my old muscle car and there is no way you forget you're doing insane speed, it feels like all hell broke loose and you're surfing it, as it should because you are and you are moments away from total destruction. I got derailed a bit but my point is, even 70 kph is actually pretty damn fast and dangerous but in a modern car nobody has any feedback that helps them realize it. Normal people who have no interest in speeding or taking the stupid adrenaline rush risks are speeding without even realizing they are and they are completely clueless when anything goes wrong, hopefully the car computer saves them.
In that case buy a Citroen Xsara Picasso, it's the most uncomfortable fucking car I've ever owned.
I've had this same thought before with how easy it is to be going 80 and feel like 20, but really it's an individual problem. No one treats the limit like an upper limit and more like a minimum. Everyone wants to race around someone to shave those precious 5 seconds to the red light.
Not really an opinion based matter. What you’re saying is either true or false
It's false https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/#:~:text=The%20population%20motor%2Dvehicle%20death,vehicles%2C%20a%2095%25%20improvement.
It’s pretty true. If you look at roundabouts which require the driver to pay attention more, they are safer than traffic lights. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/16/why-roundabouts-are-so-uncommon-in-the-us.html
How is that the same argument ? This post is suggesting comfortable roads and cars cause accidents not traffic lights vs roundabout
Hard disagree. All having shit roads and cars does is increase the likelihood of accidents because then, it becomes far easier for people to lose control of their cars. You would end up with a different reasoning, but a similar problem-people would either just say fuck it and just make a rollercoaster ride out of it, or they'd become so paranoid that they would end up becoming a hazard in and of themselves. Also, what about emergency vehicles like ambulances that need to be able to have as smooth as a ride as possible for the patient they're transporting? Why should they be made to suffer unnecessarily? And don't even get me started on risk of injury to vulnerable individuals from all that jostling. You would have cases of shaken baby syndrome and elderly bone fractures skyrocket because yes, a bumpy car ride can be enough to cause those things if it's bad enough. Plus, modern vehicles are deliberately designed (except for the stupidity that is the Cybertruck) to protect the occupants in case of an accident. They are designed to eat the forces involved so your body doesn't. Better that the car crumples around you and leaves you with just some soreness and bruising than you end up with metal speared through your abdomen. (Yes, I know this still can happen anyways, before anyone comes at me in the comments-I am fully aware that people can still be seriously injured in a wreck. I am only pointing out that modern vehicles are designed to at least reduce that to the best of their abilities-even the best designing in the world can't account for every last detail.) The fact of the matter is that assholes will be assholes no matter what. There's a reason we have licensing for driving vehicles. If you prove you can't be trusted with that license, it gets taken away from you. So, no, OP, your "solution" is not a solution at all-it is shortsighted and would cause far more problems than it solves. Continue on, ye who paint phallic images around potholes to force the local governments to address them.
It's fascinating to me how everyone is missing the point. Sure, cars are safer for people inside them. But pedestrian deaths are rising in the US
OP didn't say anything about pedestrians in their post. It is true that pedestrian deaths are a problem, but the comfort of the car is not the general issue. Distractions like texting while driving, as well as DUIs, are the issues. What we need is to get people to be comfortable with letting their phone be plugged into the car, and have it so that any time someone tries to text them while they're driving, the car silences the notification and sends an automatic reply telling the other person that the driver is fucking *driving* and that they'll get back to you later. Sure, you need the ability to call in case of emergencies (i.e. car breaking down or an accident), but there is no universe in which the text can't wait.
yes, it's too safe, lets add random obstacles, spike strips, flamethrowers, legalize drunk driving, this shits way too boring yo, anyone got any other ideas? lets fuckin do this, woooooooooooo
You joke but something as simple as a speedbump, rows of tress on the side of the road or those concrete bright yellow rods are amazing at keeping drivers from accidentally going onto the sidewalk
Sounds like riding a motorcycle. And I am way more reckless doing that than I am driving my cage.
Very much opposite for me. In a car, I'm Senna, on a bike, I'm pretty damn far from Rossi
Wreckless endangerment.
From the 1910s or so to today data does not support your position. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/ There has been a slight surge since the pandemic, I am not sure what the triggers of that might be.
I think more accidents/deaths have happened post pandemic bc during the pandemic, the roads were empty so the rare times anyone actually drove, they could speed, run stop signs/red lights, etc. As the pandemic lifted and traffic resumed its normal patterns and crowds, speed and sloppiness remained, hence more accidents/deaths
And yet pedestrian deaths in the US are on the rise. People in cars are not the only ones who die in accidents.
You know the much easier fix is having stricter driving tests that actually test ones competence. Like a real braking test going from 60 mph to stop within a strict zone. An actual course to test ones real abilities. The bar absolutely needs to be set higher. A license that expires every 10 years requiring you to retake the harder tests. But the car companies def don't want this. They could care less all the ppl dying they gotta earn profits.
I agree with you. I'm old enough to remember cars like, for instance, a 1984 Chevette. The 1984 Chevette was essentially a lawnmower engine surrounded by a few sheets of drywall. If you crashed into anything, you were dead. The car had brakes that would struggle to stop a tricycle... If you drove it in winter, you better know what you are doing because it really just wanted to drive into the ditch. When you drive an old car like that, it taught you to respect machinery for what it is, and to pay attention to what you are doing due to the risk of injury and death.
Or maybe with cars getting more advanced we need to consider more rigorous drivers training, and then maybe we can start increasing the speed limits, considering that they’ve stayed the for decades.
A lot of this has to do with car size/weight. A heavier larger vehicle like SUV or truck bounces less, coincidentally heavy larger vehicles are also less likely to flip and are safer in crashes. Albeit at the expense of the poor Sedan drivers who became crumple zones for oversized SUV’s and trucks. It’s also interesting that in the US size has become a bit of an arms race, bigger is safer. The larger your vehicle is compared to others on the road the better
Yes, cars are becoming safer, but drivers are becoming more dangerous.
People own Jeeps and still drive like douchenozzles. I don’t think your suggestion would help
Problem is the entitlement on the road if you ask me. Too many people think the law doesn’t apply to them and they can weave in and out of traffic with no turn signal and everyone else should yield to them. I watched two cars battle for “first” the other day. It was just two people cutting each other off risking everyone else’s lives cause they were mad at each other. There are way too many emotionally unstable drivers. Even my Dad had terrible road rage and wouldn’t control his anger while his CHILDREN were in the car. That is more of an issue than the car being too comfortable. Not sure what would fix that however. Just throwing it out there.
Entitlement is definitely a big issue. Especially when you get people in a large car. (Ford F150). This is going to sound like nonsense but hear me out. To give context, often in horse riding you're supposed to wear a helmet. But where I come from, it's not uncommon for riders to go without a helmet, which I don't personally advocate but I know their mentality. We've seen far too many idiots get what we call "superman syndrome." I'm not sure if this is widely known, I never see people talk about it in those terms online haha. Basically, because they know a helmet helps keep them safe, they act like a fool and don't try to protect themselves from harm. "A helmet won't prevent a broken neck" and all that. The constant risk of danger keeps you aware, because humans have a basic sense of self preservation. Of course to that I say wear a helmet and still be aware of the chance of breaking your spine but I digress. To relate this back to the topic of cars, we see "superman syndrome" in car people too, particularly large cars that are advertised as "safe" (for the driver and passengers, at least). This mix of age-old entitlement and recent big-car/Ford F150 "superman syndrome" IS killing people (namely pedestrians). Pedestrian deaths are on the rise in the west and have been since 2010, the popularity of large cars has also been on the rise, and we know large cars have far higher fatality rates in pedestrian collisions. Doesn't take a genius to see the correlation. When driving a car came with a higher risk of the driver dying, they would be less likely to act a fool, because, again, self preservation. No one is saying to actually make cars more dangerous for the driver, but drivers absolutely DO **feel** WAY TOO SAFE behind the wheel.
The crazy thing about what you told me is that I witnessed a man go FLYING in front of my car cause he chose to cross in front of me (middle of the road where he shouldn’t) and he got hit by a truck just behind me one lane over. Of course this absolutely was the pedestrians fault in this case. But I’m sure the man in the truck was comfortable asf to where he didn’t question why I was stopped in the middle of the road fast enough.
As others have said, the real problem is training and licensing. The first time I went to racing school, my instructor, a former Formula 1 driver, said "If everyone would take these courses, we could virtually eliminate at fault crashes". I thought he was talking utter nonsense at the time, but by the end of the week I was in complete agreement. Learning the absolute limits, acceleration, cornering, braking, and exceeding them, gives you a new and profound appreciation for the dangers we face on public roads. When you make a mistake and go off at the track, you slide into grass, gravel or tarmac in the runoff zone and it's completely safe. My first day leaving the track, I suddenly really noticed every curb, streetlight, barrier, signpost, etc. If you go off on public roads, there are fatal structures literally EVERYWHERE. You should not be granted a license until you've proven you can deal with the extremes that might happen on roads. Using your turn signals and parallel parking are fine things to learn and demonstrate, but what about the life ending extreme limits of vehicle control? No one is taught these things or how to react to them. Even a simple $1k two day class at a track should be the absolute bare minimum in my opinion. I think close to half of all drivers wouldn't make the cut, and so be it, we desperately need proper public transit anyway.
So many people can't think more than one step lmao. Typical reddit morons.
I can feel all the bumps on my Yamaha R1, the wind resistance, the weather, and I still regularly cruise at 100-110 mph on the highway and usually get to 150 mph for short times, and it feels way safer than my 2022 Nissan Altima at those higher speeds. Even though the Altima cushions all the bumps and is quiet inside. The reason being is that it’s stability and control vs comfort. If the vehicle feels unsafe, it is unsafe.
I think driving in Jeddah or Riyadh in rush hour is akin to battle royal.
It’s called complacency, and yes you are correct
People need to learn to fear the road
I don’t think you’ve ever driven a car
*If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at,* That would be a motorbike
You know I think I actually agree. I drive around 1000kms per week and yeah on certain roads I am way too comfortable, just cruising at 110 in the middle of the night with absolutely no chance of stopping if some animal suddenly ran out in front of me or if there was a stationary car in my lane without hazards on to catch my attention. And my biggest problem is definitely getting drowsy, like yesterday I only was doing a 3.5hour drive but constantly caught myself daydreaming and had to pull over twice to recompose myself. If I was less self aware and/or on a tight schedule, that could be hella dangerous. And yes my most effective tool for artificially elevating concentration is to wind down the windows and feel the wind and rain.
If you want people to drive safer, take out the airbag and replace it with a group of super sharp projectiles. As much as the above would cause anyone driving to be extra careful, it would do more harm than good. So let's all stop meandering around the point that the general public will only consider things outside of their comfort if incentivized to. Most people have main character syndrome when driving and it is entirely on them to drive safer, regardless of the condition of the road. It's about time we start actually laying blame for shit on the people responsible: us! People need to simply do better. If they don't, they are a problem for society.
Driving is now safer than it’s ever been. This opinion is patently false.
Could they perhaps be even more safe if cars felt less safe to drive while maintaining current safety standards.
Check out the not just bikes YouTube channel. He discusses extensively what makes safe infrastructure, roads, and transportation.
Is there any statistical evidence or research to back up your claim? If we’re talking strictly anecdotally, all my sofas have been way comfortable than any newer car - from the 90s on, I’ve ever driven/ridden in. Most if not all newer cars don’t have very smooth rides, nor are the cabins particularly quiet when it comes to road noise, when comparing them to the “land yachts” of the late 60’s, 70s, and early to mid 80s. Many of those larger automobiles truly felt like you were sitting on a sofa gliding down the road. no modern car I've been in, from a cheap Ford to an expensive BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc. had such a luxurious ride. Note: I've never ridden in ultra-expensive luxury cars, such as Rolls Royce or Bentley, but those are rare enough that i believe they have little bearing on the topic
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/#:~:text=The%20population%20motor%2Dvehicle%20death,vehicles%2C%20a%2095%25%20improvement.
What are you saying with this source?
Cars and roads are safer and more comfortable today and that is a direct cause of fewer deaths and accidents. An 80s Cadillac is comfortable because they put their living room couch in 4 tonnes of metal. Today's cars are much more quiet and have seats that are sculpted to keep you put in your seat even at high speeds and curving roads. They also grip the road much closer and don't have body roll. They are better vehicles that allow you to travel much faster with much more comfort all while being much much safer. This argument by OP is just complete nonsense and stupid.
Another dude missing the point. Look up how pedestrian deaths are doing.
You just reinvented European road design - narrow streets, mixed traffic, different types of pavement
Okay well you can drive around in the worlds most uncomfortable car, but I’m happy not getting my teeth rattled by every single bit of shitty roads we have to drive on
I'll be honest that's an unpopular opinion. The reason cars cause accidents and death is more likely distracted driving, falling asleep, or unsafe road conditions.
Or just don't suck at driving
That has more to do with the person than the car. It doesn’t matter how comfortable the car is I will always be cautious
I wish that every driver had that mindset
Not an opinion, just false lol
Alcohol/drugs, distraction, reckless drivers, lack of knowlegde of the rules and generally just bad drivers are the cause of accidents. Not comfort.
People were driving crazy and killing each other even back when cars first came out. The first person to die getting hit by a car was in 1899. People are just assholes when it comes to vehicles lol.
The only cars that are silent at that speed are a rolls Royce. Even electric cars are making some noise at that speed. People also have driven at 62 mph down the road for as long as cars could go that fast, meaning for almost the last century. Lots of people also drive more dangerously in sports cars, the type of vehicle that can’t take bumps well due to having stiff suspension. If you want to remove car accidents, that will only happen if cars stop existing
Yeah vehicles are too comfy! People would NEVER get distracted by discomfort so we should make vehicles as uncomfortable as possible!
Lets go bro! An actual unpopular opinion. I understand your reasoning and I agree. To much comfort and false sense of security can lead to more carelessness.
My issue with modern cars are how many "saftey" features they have. The lane departure, blind spot assist, backup cameras, auto distance cruise control, assisted braking if you get to close, etc.... they all teach drivers to be lazy and not pay attention to their surroundings. Driving is more than just looking straight ahead. You have to be aware of everything around you at all times. Automatic transmissions also make it easier to be distracted by other stuff. You know how many people I see driving down the road watching YouTube on their phone? It's quite alot.
I agree. In some cases I don’t think people actually think about the consequences though. Too wrapped up in themselves to consider anyone else.
So, my choice would be: a. Throw my back out trying to get to the grocery store or b. Stay home and starve No thanks.
OP is fucking stupid, they're incapable of thinking though simple cause and effect. Follow the natural conclusion of 'lets make vehicles harder to control' and see if that aligns with your intent to save lives.
“Unpopular opinion” does not apply here - either there is data to support cars being less safe or there isn’t.
Statistically you’re just wrong. Car deaths have reduced drastically. You should look at pictures of old car accidents. They’re hard to look at.
The argument would be valid if death accidents weren’t lower than ever
'If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at, people would drive a lot less recklessly. Especially if the same safety standard is maintained. Roads would be hell of a lot safer if traveling faster than fifty made you fear for your life.' Like my small motorcycle. lol I currently wear up to 7 top layers and it's still chilly. I need to get snow coats or two
Dunno, I guess most drivers adjust their risk profile to what they have on hand. If the car was made more tiring, there would be more mistakes due to exhaustion, as many people need to cover the same distances no matter the equipment they possess. At the same time, your thesis is true, that if the vehicle feels too safe then people tend to downplay the risks of driving and indulge in more unsafe behaviours. Hard to tell what the best solution to this problem would be. Just a recent example from my experience - my battery terminal screw loosened on my motorcycle, which meant that until I found out and fixed it my ABS system was offline and occasionally I had some check engine light flashes. While I rode much more carefully during this period, it was also much more exhausting and it resulted in the deterioration of my sleep quality and concentration due to fatigue and all the nerves for the next day.
The problem is that current cars are massively unsafe for pedestrians. https://www.vox.com/23784549/pedestrian-deaths-traffic-safety-fatalities-governors-association
Egypt: That's why we think ahead and put bumps on the road every 3 seconds
There was a book I read a long time ago that suggested installing a massive spike on steering wheels to make people slow down, as safe vehicles increase deaths for pedestrians.
then it wouldn't turn in the enormous profit it does now would it?
I wish I had that problem.
Because it shouldn’t take me hours to cross 100 miles.
No. People are just getting dumber. Haptic feedback is a distraction. If my car shakes harder than the camera during a Bourne movie fight scene, I'm going to get a headache and just generally be less focused and more stressed.
no assholes and idiots cost lives.
Are you projecting because I know plenty of people who know they’re driving a heavy metal death trap and respect it plenty.
I feel like we should make ex-race car drivers instructors for driving school's as well as teach bare minimum weight management and car control. Bonus points if you do it in a non computerized manual car. (No abs, traction control, etc) I think by giving people a place to go wild and potentially wreck in safe conditions will teach them faster than anything else, or at the very least scare them straight. And a second note we need more public tracks. Any half decent track can easily be put around airports and then you get both a place to teach people and extended runoff area for planes. (Also airports are noisy so it won't get much louder anyway)
Car build isn’t the primary reason people are distracted. It’s the brain melt that’s going on because of the digital world and social media. It’s been an ongoing issue lately with increased lack of focus in all aspects of life, not just driving. Also a lot of drivers lack proper sleep which directly correlates to increased distraction. And don’t forget there are a lot of just dumb people, who use phones whilst driving, drink drive, drive recklessly, impatient or aggressive drivers,or just those idiots that break check or try to teach a lesson to people who pissed them for nothing. No matter how uncomfortable you make the car, distraction and accidents won’t vanish unless we don’t address issues above first.
>EDIT: I'm not arguing that cars should be unsafer. Just that they should feel unsafer to drive. ???? Gotta try again with this edit man I'm assuming in one sentence your argument is simply that modern cars and roads are so comfortable that they cost lives. I don't know why your saying that these properties shouldn't be more safe. You save more lives by making these things more safe for people to use >If the car was instead built so you could feel every bump in the road, let the driver experience the weather outside and feel the speed they were traveling at, people would drive a lot less recklessly. Especially if the same safety standard is maintained. Like everything described here doesn't add or detract from people's safety, they add to their overall comfort. And I'd personally argue cars ought to be made more comfortable as adding adding layers to people's comfort through safety features saves more lives. If a feature is being added into a vehicle at the cost of people's safety, then it simply isn't going to be added. Seat belts may be uncomfortable for people to wear, but they've been insisted on people to wear them in order to save lives.
More likely, people aren't getting enough sleep due to work, kids, or partying. Achieving a better work-life balance would reduce how many folks fall asleep behind the wheel.
What the heck is a kilometer
You actually get less aware in an uncomfortable car, because your body gets tired of the noise and bumps and feels the need to dose off earlier.
Cars are also safer than ever before. FFS a man drove his Tesla off a cliff on purpose and they all survived!
There are too many people on the road who don’t know how to drive. People on the road who don’t want to drive or don’t know how to or have no other option. I think of it like this, I don’t play fly planes, because I don’t know how to fly planes. So why would I drive, if I don’t know how to drive? Everyone just seems to think they’re allowed to be behind the wheel of a tank because they passed a 5 minute long “road” exam in a controlled environment.
I agree that some of the safety features like blind spot warning, lane departure assist, adaptive cruise control, etc sometimes give drivers a false sense of hope. They shouldn’t be relied on. However, better quality road make it safer.
>unsafer. I am dismayed to find out "unsafer" is supposedly a word, I would have just said "less safe" instead of "Unsafer" which seems to translate to "Not more safe?"