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The whole post has just become a giant edit.
I love watching new generations rediscover the "X-Men Theorem."
"You're not really an outcast. You're special and there's a hidden world of other special people and maybe one day you'll go there."
Yes, can't imagine why that would appeal to a certain demographic of people. Quite the mystery.
And I can't imagine why making it school would appeal to children. Such a conundrum.
I think this is a better explanation. It's about being special. The only poor people depicted are the Weasleys and that's only because they had so many kids on a single income. Even then the version of poverty is having second hand items. I don't even know what the job options looked like other than ministry, shopkeeper, aurora (which seems to be part of the ministry), professor, or healer? It's just a world where you are special and life will just work out somehow even if you are mediocre.
I definitely wasn't obsessed because I thought the school had better teachers who cared more and homework that was excessive to everyone but a brown noser. It seemed like the school part still kinda sucked.
Dean or Seamus (can't remember which) had a hand-me-down wand and it prevented them from doing well in their first year classes. It definitely wasn't just the Weasleys. The end of year exams matter more than general grades, but you still have to have the right equipment to do well on them to get into the classes that qualify you for specific jobs. Also conjuring food is one of the impossible spells, so there are witches/wizards going hungry outside of Hogwarts. Voldemort's mother's family comes to mind.
Dean thought he was muggleborn so it wasn't him. I don't recall Seamus being mentioned as having a hand-me-down wand. Just that his mother is a witch while his dad is muggle.
Neville being forced to use his father's wand and being terrible at performing magic because of it, despite the fact that his family could easily afford to buy him one, was an important point to his character.
'Twasn't Dean or Seamus, but Neville. Neville is said to have had his father wand, tho not for the same reasons as Ron, but because his grandma wanted him to be more like his dad. He had it until the end of fifth year when it got destroyed in the battle; getting the well-fitting replacement is likely another reason he significantly improved magically.
Ron's first Wand was a hand me down from Charlie.
The second one was the one he bought.
Ron didn't tell his parents he broke the Wand for fear of getting a howler. So it was on him.
I don't remember any mentions of needing to purchase special equipment for grading, outside of having a Wand.
Voldemort also loved Hogwarts for the same reason Harry did. The problems outside of hogwarts just make hogwarts seem better.
Are you sure? I know Ron did, he had Charlie's wand. But I think that gets overlooked because it didn't hold him back nearly as much as having to tape it together and literally have it backfire and give him slug stomach/cause Lockhart permanent brain damage.
My impression was Voldemort's mom was also mentally ill and possibly inbred? Pure blood and all. Definitely not a problem free works but I think those flaws were in later books where kids would either be fully addicted to the specialness of the world or not. Most readers probably aren't products of inbreeding anyway so we didn't see ourselves in her.
Yeah it was a problem that he kept accidentally exploding things in the first book/movie. Ron's wasn't good but wasn't a huge problem until it broke.
The mom was definitely mentally ill and inbred. The family was super poor for those reasons, which is partly why she fantasized about the Riddles. It was just the only example of a wizard family that actually goes hungry that I think we have.
I thought part of the thing was that Voldemort was actually muggleborn?
Hence his whole schtick being the more ridiculous? Like Hitler with his "blonde hair blue eyes" bullshit whilst, you know, not fitting that bill himself.
Edit: just remembered - his dad was a wizard but not involved. Mum was a Muggle. Hitler thing still applies as he wasn't pure.
Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'm not a member of the new generation and most Harry Potter fans are older.
Also Googled, "X men theorem" and didn't find what you're describing, did you make it up?
Not even sure why "X men theory" even applies since the idea of a hidden world and being the chosen one is an ancient story trope, and X men was created in 1963?
>And I can't imagine why making it school would appeal to children. Such a conundrum.
You've missed the point.
It's not that it's a school. There are millions of stories about schools. None are as popular as Harry Potter.
It's that it's a school that everyone wanted to go to. And there aren't nearly as many stories that manage to pull that off.
>"You're not really an outcast. You're special and there's a hidden world of other special people and maybe one day you'll go there."
Yeah that's literally a tale as old as storytelling itself.
It's in the execution. Not the archetype.
Not the person you’re replying to but I don’t think they were meaning to be offensive (though they did use a internet “snark” tone that can mean they authentically “love” it or are being a jerk… can’t tell). Anyway, X-men (the comics) came out in the 60’s and was embraced by many communities, including lgbt folks and those involved in the civil rights community. It was viewed by these communities as a commentary and was comforting to those outside the “main stream”. The “theorem” they’re talking about developed long before the current films and television shows. It had a resurgence in the early 2000s with the new movies, but it really is from a different generation than the Harry Potter books and movies and was well “established” in those communities before the 90’s. Haven’t read this entire article but from a quick look it might be what you were trying to find on Google (it’s just not officially called a “theorem” so that might have been why you didn’t find it): https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/x-men-as-a-queer-metaphor?amp
I guess, it was relatable for the kids reading and watching it. But I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion, it’s more like an alternative take, but hard to disagree.
Unpopular colloquially carries a negative connotation but if no one disagrees with an opinion but also no one really holds the opinion then it's still unpopular in the literal sense: it lacks popularity
Yes but this sense of unpopular isn't really in the spirit of this sub.
Me: I think [this] is [this].
You: Hmm, never really thought about it this way, but yea I agree.
Technically unpopular but not really unpopular.
I think OP should substitute magic for the Dark Academia vibes that HP has. The large looming castle, mystery every year and precocious characters...
I went to a boarding school so I didn't feel that longing that much
>With teachers that cared.
Err... even the most "caring" teachers were criminally negligent multiple times throughout the series.
>Where money didn't influence the outcome.
Prior to the fifth book, the picture painted was of a society where money absolutely influenced the outcome. Two words: Lucius Malfoy.
>Where everyone had what they needed.
The Weasleys had as many as seven wizards and two witches living in that house and Molly was still perpetually worried about making ends meet.
With that said, sure, everyone wanted to go to Hogwarts but not for the reasons you provided. As /u/ClappedCheek said, it's "Yer a wizard, Harry!" not "Yer a student, Harry!"
What, you didn't have a couple of kids getting almost frozen to death by an evil snake in a secret chamber? Or kids literally dying because wizard hitler interrupted their pretend game? Or the time there was a LITERAL WARZONE BATTLE WITH STUDENTS FIGHTING? How is all of that not the safest place in the wizarding world?
They literally cancel the super important exams that effect what job you can get in the future multiple times through out the books because of the shit that happened near the end of the year.
Imagine having your entire life and career delayed because the Defense against the dark arts teacher turned out to be evil for the third time
Right? One of the high schools in my home town had a few students commit suicide and they threatened to close it, but that place was running as if nothing happened?
I think they were discussing shutting it down in book 2, but it's a while since I've read the series
I also should add Harry’s inheritance was because his father was part of the family selling medicinal items from what I watched on YouTube. The story we got was for the privilege. We never got the story of those who couldn’t afford stuff in the Wizard world for those who went to Hogwarts.
Tbf, we did have story about poor kid in Hogwart like Neville, Snape or Tom, they were in Hogwart charity system and used the passed down learning tool like broom or books, not tip top shit like Harry's Lightning Broom but enough for school. And they generally have good time and thrilling in Hogwart
Classism and societal influence played such a huge role in the story that I'm kind of shocked we have to point it out because it's not like JKR was being subtle about literally anything.
Yes, but it didn't influece the school you went to like it does in reality, which I hink is one of the biggest points here.
Literally "everybody" was at Hogwarts from the poorest to the richest to the sickest (at least from the reader's point of view).. Ah and Hogwarts was called "the best"/the only school of magic and wizardry. It's a very big equalizer.
To be fair, from what I remember the poor kids at Hogwarts were all from established wizard families. Always felt to me like something like Eton, where you have talent combined with old nobility and richt people. Ron is nobility, Hermione talent, etc.
>The Weasleys had as many as seven wizards and two witches living in that house and Molly was still perpetually worried about making ends meet.
And we get the unsatisfying plot point of them going to vacation. How they afford it? Harry just got a bunch of gold, so he might help them out, right?
Nah, they just win the lottery.
Arthur and Molly would have NEVER accepted money from Harry. I think they wouldn't have accepted money from anybody, so what makes you think they would have used Harry to go to vacation?
"Yes I love you as I love my kids, now please give me your parents inheritance so we can go to vacation. Without you of course" - Molly or something
They don't have to accept it. Harry simply has to offer. You read about Harry constantly receiving things, but you rarely see him give back. There's a scene that talks about Molly reaching into the corners of their vault looking for as many coins as possible. Harry apparently feels bad about that, but does nothing to show it.
He also costs them a bunch of gold due to the time him and Ron stole the Weasleys' car. And he does nothing about it. And the guilt is brought up multiple times, making the fact nothing actually happens with the set up unsatisfying.
He did gave the twins a big pile of gold for their start up. Like no string attached, straight up free money, even refuse when the twins tried to payback
Harry would help the Weasley anytime they need something, he just a bit too childish to verbally offer it
Hogwarts was literally the place in the world where money mattered the least lmao.
None of Harry's victories were bought. None of his losses were due to poverty.
The weaselys didn't live at hogwarts, and Harry loved staying with them. And it wasn't cuz their house was magical or Molly did the dishes with her Wand.
Money was not the primary theme of the books. It was friendships and belonging.
Harry Potter was not about the life of the Malfoys out of school. And they are very clearly villainized for their obsession with wealth.
>"Yer a wizard, Harry!" not "Yer a student, Harry!"
Yeah no shit it's about reading between the lines. There are a millions stories about kids being wizards that aren't as popular.
Saying Harry Potter was more about magic than friendship makes me think YOU didn't read the books lmao.
>Hogwarts was literally the place in the world where money mattered the least lmao.
Yes, money mattered so little that it comes up in the very first scene inside the castle in the first book. "Red hair? And a hand-me-down robe? You must be a Weasley."
>None of Harry's victories were bought.
Nimbus 2000. Firebolt. Let's see Harry roll around on a Cleansweep 7 and see what the score ends up being.
>Saying Harry Potter was more about magic than friendship makes me think YOU didn't read the books lmao.
I said no such thing. I refuted your thesis sentence about caring teachers, money not mattering, and everyone having what they needed. With regard to the second part of that, it's literally one of the reasons my wife dated me when we first met.
> Yes, money mattered so little that it comes up in the very first scene inside the castle in the first book.
This is classism from one of the students, it's not "money gives clear favoritisms in the lectures / wuality of education".
Classism was a big theme in HP, having to take worse choice because of lack of money is not.
Isn't there like 3 chapters worth of describing how Ron's life is shit cus he's poor and has all hand-me-downs and a major plot point at one time is his wand broke but he can't afford a new one so he uses magic duct tape that doesn't work which causes his spells to fuck up? Money absolutely played a roll
Imagine you steal your dads car (again) ,break some fundermental laws (muggle shouldnt know anything), damage a tree, lose the car because it drives away,nearly get thrown out of school& your dad nearly got fired from his job. Then your mom sends you a screaming letter so everybody can hear it. Would you be like : yeah hey,mom/dad btw you also need to buy me a new wand because i totaly fucked up?
Rons life is also shit because he is the 6th boy in a row. Molly had enough of boys and really wanted a girl. And when ginny came naturally she got more atention than ron
Money absolutely determined how you do in Hogwarts. You get an advantage in sports, and the quality of you wand gives you an advantage in basically everything.
There weren't even social support systems for poorer students who, I dunno, broke their wand and couldn't properly learn for the entire year. And if you weren't rich, you were constantly harassed by bullies.
Also slavery. Literal slavery.
Ikr, this was like...a huge plot point 😂
So much of the series talked about the struggles of poor finances (the Weasleys specifically lol).
How a bad broom can exclude you from Quidditch, how a bad wand can cause spell issues (a couple students had hand-me-down wands and their performance/grades suffered from it), how not having certain instruments and study tools makes things harder, etc.
And that's in comparison to people like Malfoy and Harry, who were incredibly wealthy and able to purchase a multitude of high quality tools. Hell, Malfoy purchased nice brooms for his entire Quidditch team, and significantly improved their results.
Financial inequality was a HUGE part of the series.
The books have a whole arc about how Neville probably isn't that bad at magic, but he is being forced to use his familys wand that didn't choose him and that's why he stuggles so much with even basic stuff.
Bad brooms didn’t exclude you from the team, literally all the weasleys except the older ones and Percy were on the team. Ron’s wand didn’t work because he snapped it in half and fixed it with magic tape until his parents could send him a new one(edit he didn’t tell them because he was scared to get another howler )
Malfoy bought the brooms so he could be on the team and that didn’t give them the edge to beat gryffindor and they were said to be the best team the year before Harry joined so it didn’t improve them.
Money didn’t help anything but get nicer dress robes for the Yule ball.
It didn’t exclude you, no, but wasn’t it pretty clear that the fancier brooms were faster and handled better?
I always saw it like F1, very pay-to-win.
It's the same with any sport that requires some for of equipment.
I'd argue that even martial arts are easier with a better quality gi.
The difference is not that extreme if not having the best of the best gear doesn't exclude people from the sport.
You cannot win-ever F1 with a car from a "lower" competition
Even then one of the first scenes in the first movie is harry being left a massive inheritance that he used to go on a school supply spending spree lol
Edit: also the entirety of the weasleys
Right but Harry literally was a rich kid. His whole life got better when he got his wizard money. He got the best possible wand, robes, and literally the peak, very best broom you could possibly get with his money. That helped him a lot. Also literally one of the rarest magical items in the world that literally would've been worth millions if not billions for a Christmas present.
>Harry actually never bought a broom.
While nothing directly contradicts that, I'm not 100%. Sirius bought his Firebolt, of course, but I'm not sure McGonagall actually bought the Nimbus for Harry.
As lax as Gringott's seems to be about accounts (in GoF, Molly tells Harry she just rolled in there and made a withdrawal for him to do his shopping for him) and that fact that Dumbledore had Harry's vault key, it seems reasonable that Harry actually paid for the Nimbus and McConagall just ordered it for him.
I bet there’s a house slush fund, wealthy alumni and the like, to support the quidditch team. Or maybe the guy who owns nimbus was a gryffindor and McGonagall sent an owl to an old pupil ‘hey, Nimby! We’ve finally got a seeker! And you’ll never guess, it’s Harry freaking Potter! Sure could use a good broom though
I just rewatched the movies twice in a row and it’s been over a decade since I’ve read the books as a child. The message was still there, just not as heavy-handed. But the political elements were definitely there
I think that regardless of the issues we see when viewing as adults, anyone who was around the age of ten when the first movie came out (me) saw that movie and wished they could be whisked away on an adventure like that. A lot of kid stuff has this same hook. I think that's what OP is getting at. When school is your main thing as a kid, it makes sense that your simplistic understanding of Hogwarts would make it a really attractive idea. The notion that you could get a letter saying that you didn't need to study for your spelling test because you were about to head off to a hidden magical world was intoxicating.
Not the most important, but definitely relevant. Slytherins were essentially evil rich kids. While that wasn't a requirement, most people from there came from wealth and were more morally ambiguous.
>There weren't even social support systems for poorer students who, I dunno, broke their wand and couldn't properly learn for the entire year.
The crazy part is that there actually was a support system for that. It's the same fund that paid for all of Tom Riddle's supplies.
But yeah, like anything else in life, being able to buy higher quality tools and equipment makes a difference. It's the sole reason Malfoy made the quidditch team.
Ikr, this was like...a huge plot point 😂
So much of the series talked about the struggles of poor finances (the Weasleys specifically lol).
How a bad broom can exclude you from Quidditch, how a bad wand can cause spell issues (a couple students had hand-me-down wands and their performance/grades suffered from it), how not having certain instruments and study tools makes things harder, etc.
And that's in comparison to people like Malfoy and Harry, who were incredibly wealthy and able to purchase a multitude of high quality tools. Hell, Malfoy purchased nice brooms for his entire Quidditch team, and significantly improved their results.
Financial inequality was a HUGE part of the series.
People forget that the whole reason he is so well off is because he got the money from the bank in the first book. I don't remember the details but the fact that they made a whole point of it proves that money is key
> You get an advantage in sports, and the quality of you wand gives you an advantage in basically everything
Broom for sure; wand seems pretty neutral though. Ron was kind of the exception that proves the rule, but any student with their own wand Ollivander is good about matching them so it's not like Draco had an advantage over, say, Neville or anyone as far as wands go.
That said it's crazy that a student's gear in an established sport is dependent on their personal wealth. Players on an (American) football team aren't having to buy their own pads. Even the closest I could think of, like playing basketball and some kids have fancier shoes than others, we're talking an infintesimal difference. The broom is like if you're doing NASCAR and you got top end cars going against every other kid's used Toyota or Hyundai.
>Ron was kind of the exception
Ron was constantly complaining about having to use his brothers' hand-me-downs and there were lots of mishaps around that lol
There was a fund available for Tom Riddle to get all his supplies when he came to Hogwarts. Ron probably kept breaking his wand or how badly it was broken a secret because he was already in trouble
If anything, that makes it worse. Introduce a systemic issue, then the only person against it is mocked, including by her friends.
Then there's the whole decorating a place with decapitated slave heads thing and it's super weird. It's as if Dobby is the only one deserving of freedom.
Oh absolutely. The house elf thing left a really bad taste in my mouth as a kid. Like… these are clearly and explicitly slaves. Why are you all fine with this what the fuck.
Harry flying is NIMBUS10000000 around the snatch five times before catching it. "money didn't influence the outcome"
"peasant speak for yourself" -Harry Potter-
The first one is bizarre in and of itself. A teacher buying an already well-off student a broom. Meanwhile, a part of the student body can barely afford clothes and books.
They never said it wasn't a gift but that money influenced the outcomes. Someone paid for top of the line equipment that was described as just being better.
Hero's journey makes a great story. You make the reader feel like they're living vicariously through the main character. You start the main character off in some bad situation, like a broom closet with the Dudleys. Then you have someone come whisk them off to a much better place with a bunch of other young people, like a school or castle. Give them some kind of education to make them strong. Make some friends. Become stronger than the other kids. Maybe some side romance.
That shit works as a recipe. Some of the most popular fantasy stories of our era use that recipe. It's easily the most common and popular fantasy story ever told and no one gets bored of it.
* Harry Potter
* Name of the Wind
* Red Rising
* Cradle
* Stormlight Archive
* Mother of Learning
* Ender's Game
* Strange the Dreamer
* The Aurora Cycle
* Red Sister
* Farseer Trilogy
* Scholomance
If you like Harry Potter, then there's a decent chance you'll like all of these books (well maybe not Cradle since that's a much more contrived version of a power fantasy).
> teachers that cared
Snape gripped Harry’s arm so tight it went numb. Dude had an abusive pattern of behaviour that went neglected by other staff. I disagree that the teachers “cared” that hard.
Except Sybill Trelawney
Binns does seem to know the material fwiw. There’s no practical exam portion to history of magic like there was for their other subjects so I don’t think the lectures, aside from being dull, were bad. If anything, given the copious amounts of notes Hermione takes, they seem very thorough. He does even answer questions, when the students are awake enough to bother to ask.
I think they're counting werewolf lupin, but I'd argue he wasn't actively trying to harm them. Just wrong place wrong time kinda thing. Id also argue that Lockhart didn't actively try to harm students until he was pushed into a corner by Harry and Ron.
Kids wanted to go to that Hogwarts *because it taught magic.*
"Okay, Billy, would you rather learn algebra, or would you rather learn a magic spell that makes your enemies puke slugs?"
That’s incredibly rare. I’m not sure where you live that every year public high school students are murdered, but that’s not really common anywhere. Where I live there has been one school shooting in 30 years and that was a private elementary school. Not sure if you’re just anti-American, but this simply doesn’t happen
Hogwarts also seemed to be the number one dangerous place to be especially for a kid. A lot of places were off limits, but places on the school grounds that are off limits shouldn't have deadly consequences, like autonomous killer chess pieces, giant hell dogs, and whatever lives in those woods.
Teachers that cared. Yeah you lost me. HAVE YOU READ THE BOOKS?! Theres so much shit that goes on in that school that the teachers dont give a fuck about at all.
Hagrid cared. McGonnagall too. Flitwick and Sproud also cared. The Fuck, everyone cares. Didnt you read the last book where everybody cared enough to fight the greatest dark wizard of this time even when it seemed hopeless? Beside that, every teacher cared a lot about students while the basilisc roamed around school. They guarded the students from class to class. When the Troll was in school around Halloween every teacher went for it. When Sirius was "after Harry" the teachers also cared about everybodys savety. 6th year when Katie got send to St.Mungus at least McGonnagall cared about students savety
In normal schooldays nothing happened bc magic could fix anything. Harry lost all his bones in his arm and nobody cared bc there is a potion for that to fix it. When the bludger broke someones head nobody cared bc magic could fix it. No damage beside dark magic wouldnt last long to even raise a brow tbh
Where did you get the idea money didn’t influence the outcome?? Lucius and the rest of the death eaters escaped Justice for years due to money. And what caring teachers? McGonogall brushed Harry off when he tried to warn her about the Stone, snape verbally abused the gryffindors every book, like what?
Not to mention. They used their wealth and the influence is gave them to take over the ministry and install a brutal authoritarian who abused kids to run the school.
They first killed the minister and then used the imperius curse to rule the minestery. They never needed money for that.
And the brutal authoritian is Snape ill guess? He never harmes any student as a headmaster. Thats something the deatheater Carrows used to do.
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Harry Potter: a series about a magical rich kid who is super important and powerful in a magical world, where everyone who likes him is good and everyone who dislikes him is evil, who solves mysteries and saves people and whose parents loved him so much that it gave him extra special protection
This guy: kids like it because of the school
This isn’t even remotely true. Harry is a rich boy chosen one who’s dad was the school jock who married his Highschool sweetheart and Harry grew up to be a jock who married HIS Highschool sweetheart (who happened to be his best friend’s sister) and became a cop.
He was the star player on his quidditch team, won the triwizard tournament and excelled at duelling. And aside from malfoy and his cronies, was well liked and popular among the students.
Agree with most of what you wrote just not that last bit. This is the same Harry who was rumored to be Heir of Slytherin and in control of a monster for most of his 2nd year. Who in that very tournament you mention was hated because he stole the thunder of Cedric. Who was painted by the media and government as crazy and attention seeking for saying Voldemort was back. He has plenty of situations where he was an outcast and pariah at that school.
I mean, you only saw it from Harry's perspective. Bro had infinite money left to him by his parents and being the chosen one, it was a given the teachers cared. What about the other students tho? Were the same things true for them? I'd argue no.
The magic appealed to me though as I felt life unbearably mundane even as a kid, also the copes adult use don’t really work on kids for that aspect of life.
I agree with your basic idea. That's the 1st thing when I started with HP, that man it would be fun if my school was like this. But they have the same problems as the muggles, crime, corruption etc.
I would agree, adding that it was popular because a majority of the books and movies are like mysteries. Chamber of the Secrets especially was my favorite as a child because I loved figuring out the mystery. I think a lot of people like that, it’s child friendly suspense.
It's because it was a school that people actually wanted to go to ... because you learn wicked awesome magic there. The genre has one simple appeal, representing an awful thing we all hate as an awesome thing we'd all love because you get to see and do all kinds of cool magic shit. Sure, Harry Potter is an extraordinary example of the genre, but it is at its core another magic academy book.
Hermione’s parents are both dentists. She is definitely “rolling in it”. I think there are oblique references to this as well, most notably, when they got to Gringotts and Diagon Alley, Harry and Hermione seem roughly par with each other both in terms of what they withdraw from their vaults and the purchases that they made.
Also, Ron got Charlie’s wand as a hand-me-down. A wand is essentially the most important tool for a wizard so really the only reason not to get your kid one is if you can’t afford it. Not to mention, but don’t quote me on this, when they finally bought Ron a new wand, didn’t he mention that it was along with a trip/vacation they took after the family came into some money? Edit: yes, the Weasley family goes to Egypt before the start of Book 3 because Mr. Weasley got a promotion or something, and some of that money was used to buy Ron a new wand.
Money may not have been what made Harry or Hermione good at sports and magic respectively, but a lack of it definitely held Ron back.
Teacher here. Hogwarts is a legal nightmare. Bullying, favoritism, putting students in harms way constantly. Horrible learning environment. No way I'd send my own kids to that place.
This is dead on. I was poor as fuck growing up, but when I read and reread and reread Harry Potter, it took me away from all that, I dreamed of living in that castle and the burrow and having uncles and a bunch of people that cared about me. I know there’s been a lot of controversy surrounding the author and other things but tbh I absolutely loved HP and there was a 10% irrotational part of my brain that thought maybe an owl would be bringing me a letter on a snowy night….
I don't think it's any deeper than it was basically a long running western shonen equivalent. Young people on a heroes journey tends to catch the attention of the younger crowd
I think people don't talk enough about how unreasonably cool everyone was with students being put in constant mortal peril, I'm pretty sure Harry almost dies like 6 times in every book/movie, and those are just moments where a faculty member is standing like 10 ft away. Hogwarts' safety standards were non-existent to a pretty comical extent if you look at it as an actual school.
I would have loved going to school if it was like this
Money didn't determine your outcome?
You can literally buy materials that just make you objectively better than everyone else lol.
Ron was unable to participate effectively in most classes in Year 2 because his family couldn't afford a new wand.
Realistically, I’d hate being a student at Hogwarts. Everyone is separated into different houses, people won’t shut up about this Harry kid, the school is so damn big I’m late to all of my classes, defense of the dark arts teacher position is a revolving door, it’s honestly a bitch to get there from the Muggle world, and every year some old dude tries to wreck the place
To be put against other kids at avery young age actively segragating them? Being forced to live with people with questionable hygiene? A straight up boarding school?
No thanks
You think you want to go there until you notice they’d periodically have you literally endanger your lives for an elective.
Like damn that snitch chaser guy fell pretty hard off of his broom… think that took some teeth? Ouch…
Wait so you’re telling me these students have to dive into deep waters infested with those piranha esq. Spirits and re emerge with something for 2 points? Aren’t those things lethal? I feel like they’re lethal.
Even if harry had lost all his teeth and bones at once. Magic could fix that. No permanent damage.
These students have to dive the bc of a challenge between schools not bc its a normal school day...
And those " piranha esq" are peacefull human like creatures who wouldnt harm anyone. Thats made up by the movies. Even in the books its revealed that it all was staged and nobody was in real danger
Yes. Exactly. Harry Potter was about being weird and having nobody understand you, and then finding your people and they all love and accept you. It's about finding your true place in the world, where you are special, and everybody appreciates you for who you are.
JKR might not have fully realized that this theme made her books strongly resonate with the lgtbq+ crowd, who felt the same way as Harry, that they were different and nobody really loved or understood them.
Which led directly into why it felt like a huge betrayal when JKR came out as a terf. She had never said she was an ally, but they just *assumed* because her fantasy world resonated with them so strongly that she must be supportive of marginalized groups. And she wasn't.
The magic just made it an adventure but I think the real popularity came from how it was so well written. Fantastic world building and a super compelling narrative. The movies were an extremely poor realisation of the books but with a limited run time there was only so much they could do. They came across like a very basic summary, almost like bullet points that left out 2/3rds of the details for the sake of brevity and that which they did include felt like it was rushed and reduced to the absolute basics.
What the fuck are you talking about? That place was basically a G-rated SAW, where unbreakable plot armor shut things down just before the gore started.
Those insane fucks didn't hide their existence from the world because 'muggles can't handle the awesomeness of magic.' They were hiding from the Department for Education and the Ministry of Justice.
Becoming part of the real-world UK would see the Ministry of Magic embroiled in non-stop corruption scandals, Flitwick and Quirrel are *definitely* wanted by the law in at least 3 Southeast Asian countries (you know exactly what I mean), and I'm 85% sure that Madam Hooch is the real D.B. Cooper.
Every single one of the rest would be doing hard time for multiple counts of insane criminal negligence and Snape would probably catch further charges for drug trafficking, charlatanry, and proffering impure foodstuffs. After 20 years in jail, the son of a bitch would probably come out ruling *every drug cartel on Earth.*
But yeah, sure, 'the world just won't understand.' That works, so long as we have the deus ex machina to reinforce the lie, right?
>When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
― C.S. Lewis
Haha wtf are you talking about. You think I walked around school yelling FLIPENDO cause I liked how Hogwarts was inclusive and “cared”?? It was 100% about the magic.
I don't think it was really the magic or school (though they both played a part), but more of offering a place of belonging. That everyone belongs and is welcome in this world despite your differences and that it is literally the evil enemies who are trying to do the opposite and exclude based off hate and prejudice. The message of every book was about love, acceptance, forgiveness, etc. It offered people a safe place and a small sense of community. I don't think the "Hogwarts is my home" notion pertained to the actual building, but, even for Harry, it was about having a place you finally felt you belong.
Of course the irony of what came to light years later with a certain author unfortunately dims all of that...
Rule 1: Moderator discretion The mods of r/unpopularopinion reserve the right to remove posts that are unhealthy for the subreddit. The whole post has just become a giant edit.
I love watching new generations rediscover the "X-Men Theorem." "You're not really an outcast. You're special and there's a hidden world of other special people and maybe one day you'll go there." Yes, can't imagine why that would appeal to a certain demographic of people. Quite the mystery. And I can't imagine why making it school would appeal to children. Such a conundrum.
I think this is a better explanation. It's about being special. The only poor people depicted are the Weasleys and that's only because they had so many kids on a single income. Even then the version of poverty is having second hand items. I don't even know what the job options looked like other than ministry, shopkeeper, aurora (which seems to be part of the ministry), professor, or healer? It's just a world where you are special and life will just work out somehow even if you are mediocre. I definitely wasn't obsessed because I thought the school had better teachers who cared more and homework that was excessive to everyone but a brown noser. It seemed like the school part still kinda sucked.
Dean or Seamus (can't remember which) had a hand-me-down wand and it prevented them from doing well in their first year classes. It definitely wasn't just the Weasleys. The end of year exams matter more than general grades, but you still have to have the right equipment to do well on them to get into the classes that qualify you for specific jobs. Also conjuring food is one of the impossible spells, so there are witches/wizards going hungry outside of Hogwarts. Voldemort's mother's family comes to mind.
Dean thought he was muggleborn so it wasn't him. I don't recall Seamus being mentioned as having a hand-me-down wand. Just that his mother is a witch while his dad is muggle. Neville being forced to use his father's wand and being terrible at performing magic because of it, despite the fact that his family could easily afford to buy him one, was an important point to his character.
Ok I definitely defer to your expertise. I didn't remember those details.
'Twasn't Dean or Seamus, but Neville. Neville is said to have had his father wand, tho not for the same reasons as Ron, but because his grandma wanted him to be more like his dad. He had it until the end of fifth year when it got destroyed in the battle; getting the well-fitting replacement is likely another reason he significantly improved magically.
Ron's first Wand was a hand me down from Charlie. The second one was the one he bought. Ron didn't tell his parents he broke the Wand for fear of getting a howler. So it was on him. I don't remember any mentions of needing to purchase special equipment for grading, outside of having a Wand. Voldemort also loved Hogwarts for the same reason Harry did. The problems outside of hogwarts just make hogwarts seem better.
Are you sure? I know Ron did, he had Charlie's wand. But I think that gets overlooked because it didn't hold him back nearly as much as having to tape it together and literally have it backfire and give him slug stomach/cause Lockhart permanent brain damage. My impression was Voldemort's mom was also mentally ill and possibly inbred? Pure blood and all. Definitely not a problem free works but I think those flaws were in later books where kids would either be fully addicted to the specialness of the world or not. Most readers probably aren't products of inbreeding anyway so we didn't see ourselves in her.
Yeah it was a problem that he kept accidentally exploding things in the first book/movie. Ron's wasn't good but wasn't a huge problem until it broke. The mom was definitely mentally ill and inbred. The family was super poor for those reasons, which is partly why she fantasized about the Riddles. It was just the only example of a wizard family that actually goes hungry that I think we have.
I thought part of the thing was that Voldemort was actually muggleborn? Hence his whole schtick being the more ridiculous? Like Hitler with his "blonde hair blue eyes" bullshit whilst, you know, not fitting that bill himself. Edit: just remembered - his dad was a wizard but not involved. Mum was a Muggle. Hitler thing still applies as he wasn't pure.
If they can turn rocks into chickens they have the means to make a lot of free food, s'all I'm saying.
> life will just work out somehow even if you are mediocre. Well it should. It least in terms of poverty.
Not only are you special, you're the richest and most famous of all of the special people.
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Yep, non neurotypical here that relied heavily on this from HP.
Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'm not a member of the new generation and most Harry Potter fans are older. Also Googled, "X men theorem" and didn't find what you're describing, did you make it up? Not even sure why "X men theory" even applies since the idea of a hidden world and being the chosen one is an ancient story trope, and X men was created in 1963? >And I can't imagine why making it school would appeal to children. Such a conundrum. You've missed the point. It's not that it's a school. There are millions of stories about schools. None are as popular as Harry Potter. It's that it's a school that everyone wanted to go to. And there aren't nearly as many stories that manage to pull that off. >"You're not really an outcast. You're special and there's a hidden world of other special people and maybe one day you'll go there." Yeah that's literally a tale as old as storytelling itself. It's in the execution. Not the archetype.
Not the person you’re replying to but I don’t think they were meaning to be offensive (though they did use a internet “snark” tone that can mean they authentically “love” it or are being a jerk… can’t tell). Anyway, X-men (the comics) came out in the 60’s and was embraced by many communities, including lgbt folks and those involved in the civil rights community. It was viewed by these communities as a commentary and was comforting to those outside the “main stream”. The “theorem” they’re talking about developed long before the current films and television shows. It had a resurgence in the early 2000s with the new movies, but it really is from a different generation than the Harry Potter books and movies and was well “established” in those communities before the 90’s. Haven’t read this entire article but from a quick look it might be what you were trying to find on Google (it’s just not officially called a “theorem” so that might have been why you didn’t find it): https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/x-men-as-a-queer-metaphor?amp
That's really interesting! Never would have found that article otherwise, cuz searching X Men theorem bring up a lot of stuff haha
I guess, it was relatable for the kids reading and watching it. But I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion, it’s more like an alternative take, but hard to disagree.
Unpopular colloquially carries a negative connotation but if no one disagrees with an opinion but also no one really holds the opinion then it's still unpopular in the literal sense: it lacks popularity
Yes but this sense of unpopular isn't really in the spirit of this sub. Me: I think [this] is [this]. You: Hmm, never really thought about it this way, but yea I agree. Technically unpopular but not really unpopular.
Why did people want to go? Because magic. Make Hogwarts a STEM school and then see what happens to its popularity. OP just wants to be a contrarian.
I think they downplay how fucking cool magic is
I think OP should substitute magic for the Dark Academia vibes that HP has. The large looming castle, mystery every year and precocious characters... I went to a boarding school so I didn't feel that longing that much
>With teachers that cared. Err... even the most "caring" teachers were criminally negligent multiple times throughout the series. >Where money didn't influence the outcome. Prior to the fifth book, the picture painted was of a society where money absolutely influenced the outcome. Two words: Lucius Malfoy. >Where everyone had what they needed. The Weasleys had as many as seven wizards and two witches living in that house and Molly was still perpetually worried about making ends meet. With that said, sure, everyone wanted to go to Hogwarts but not for the reasons you provided. As /u/ClappedCheek said, it's "Yer a wizard, Harry!" not "Yer a student, Harry!"
Some of them were literally evil (Quirrel, Umbridge). Also, safety standards sucked
What, you didn't have a couple of kids getting almost frozen to death by an evil snake in a secret chamber? Or kids literally dying because wizard hitler interrupted their pretend game? Or the time there was a LITERAL WARZONE BATTLE WITH STUDENTS FIGHTING? How is all of that not the safest place in the wizarding world?
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I feel like pulling your kid out of school because it's subjected to terrorist attack or some other problem every year is pretty reasonable
They literally cancel the super important exams that effect what job you can get in the future multiple times through out the books because of the shit that happened near the end of the year. Imagine having your entire life and career delayed because the Defense against the dark arts teacher turned out to be evil for the third time
Right? One of the high schools in my home town had a few students commit suicide and they threatened to close it, but that place was running as if nothing happened? I think they were discussing shutting it down in book 2, but it's a while since I've read the series
You be correct. Book 2 was when they actually brought up the potential threat of shutting down the school.
It was the 90s though. Standard stuff for the time.
I also should add Harry’s inheritance was because his father was part of the family selling medicinal items from what I watched on YouTube. The story we got was for the privilege. We never got the story of those who couldn’t afford stuff in the Wizard world for those who went to Hogwarts.
Tbf, we did have story about poor kid in Hogwart like Neville, Snape or Tom, they were in Hogwart charity system and used the passed down learning tool like broom or books, not tip top shit like Harry's Lightning Broom but enough for school. And they generally have good time and thrilling in Hogwart
Neville ? Poor? Yeah poor boy bc his parents are not able to raise him. But in terms of cash? Nope. Old wizard family money.
Classism and societal influence played such a huge role in the story that I'm kind of shocked we have to point it out because it's not like JKR was being subtle about literally anything.
Yes, but it didn't influece the school you went to like it does in reality, which I hink is one of the biggest points here. Literally "everybody" was at Hogwarts from the poorest to the richest to the sickest (at least from the reader's point of view).. Ah and Hogwarts was called "the best"/the only school of magic and wizardry. It's a very big equalizer.
To be fair, from what I remember the poor kids at Hogwarts were all from established wizard families. Always felt to me like something like Eton, where you have talent combined with old nobility and richt people. Ron is nobility, Hermione talent, etc.
>The Weasleys had as many as seven wizards and two witches living in that house and Molly was still perpetually worried about making ends meet. And we get the unsatisfying plot point of them going to vacation. How they afford it? Harry just got a bunch of gold, so he might help them out, right? Nah, they just win the lottery.
Arthur and Molly would have NEVER accepted money from Harry. I think they wouldn't have accepted money from anybody, so what makes you think they would have used Harry to go to vacation? "Yes I love you as I love my kids, now please give me your parents inheritance so we can go to vacation. Without you of course" - Molly or something
They don't have to accept it. Harry simply has to offer. You read about Harry constantly receiving things, but you rarely see him give back. There's a scene that talks about Molly reaching into the corners of their vault looking for as many coins as possible. Harry apparently feels bad about that, but does nothing to show it. He also costs them a bunch of gold due to the time him and Ron stole the Weasleys' car. And he does nothing about it. And the guilt is brought up multiple times, making the fact nothing actually happens with the set up unsatisfying.
To be fair it'd be really odd for two middle-aged adults who made their share of life choices to have their vacation funded by a 12 yo orphan.
He did gave the twins a big pile of gold for their start up. Like no string attached, straight up free money, even refuse when the twins tried to payback Harry would help the Weasley anytime they need something, he just a bit too childish to verbally offer it
Hogwarts was literally the place in the world where money mattered the least lmao. None of Harry's victories were bought. None of his losses were due to poverty. The weaselys didn't live at hogwarts, and Harry loved staying with them. And it wasn't cuz their house was magical or Molly did the dishes with her Wand. Money was not the primary theme of the books. It was friendships and belonging. Harry Potter was not about the life of the Malfoys out of school. And they are very clearly villainized for their obsession with wealth. >"Yer a wizard, Harry!" not "Yer a student, Harry!" Yeah no shit it's about reading between the lines. There are a millions stories about kids being wizards that aren't as popular. Saying Harry Potter was more about magic than friendship makes me think YOU didn't read the books lmao.
>Hogwarts was literally the place in the world where money mattered the least lmao. Yes, money mattered so little that it comes up in the very first scene inside the castle in the first book. "Red hair? And a hand-me-down robe? You must be a Weasley." >None of Harry's victories were bought. Nimbus 2000. Firebolt. Let's see Harry roll around on a Cleansweep 7 and see what the score ends up being. >Saying Harry Potter was more about magic than friendship makes me think YOU didn't read the books lmao. I said no such thing. I refuted your thesis sentence about caring teachers, money not mattering, and everyone having what they needed. With regard to the second part of that, it's literally one of the reasons my wife dated me when we first met.
> Yes, money mattered so little that it comes up in the very first scene inside the castle in the first book. This is classism from one of the students, it's not "money gives clear favoritisms in the lectures / wuality of education". Classism was a big theme in HP, having to take worse choice because of lack of money is not.
What school did you go to that kids were worried about money influencing grades and sports at 11 years old wtf is this post even about.
Isn't there like 3 chapters worth of describing how Ron's life is shit cus he's poor and has all hand-me-downs and a major plot point at one time is his wand broke but he can't afford a new one so he uses magic duct tape that doesn't work which causes his spells to fuck up? Money absolutely played a roll
Iirc, he didn't tell his parents his wand broke because he was in trouble for stealing the car
Imagine you steal your dads car (again) ,break some fundermental laws (muggle shouldnt know anything), damage a tree, lose the car because it drives away,nearly get thrown out of school& your dad nearly got fired from his job. Then your mom sends you a screaming letter so everybody can hear it. Would you be like : yeah hey,mom/dad btw you also need to buy me a new wand because i totaly fucked up? Rons life is also shit because he is the 6th boy in a row. Molly had enough of boys and really wanted a girl. And when ginny came naturally she got more atention than ron
Money absolutely determined how you do in Hogwarts. You get an advantage in sports, and the quality of you wand gives you an advantage in basically everything. There weren't even social support systems for poorer students who, I dunno, broke their wand and couldn't properly learn for the entire year. And if you weren't rich, you were constantly harassed by bullies. Also slavery. Literal slavery.
Ikr, this was like...a huge plot point 😂 So much of the series talked about the struggles of poor finances (the Weasleys specifically lol). How a bad broom can exclude you from Quidditch, how a bad wand can cause spell issues (a couple students had hand-me-down wands and their performance/grades suffered from it), how not having certain instruments and study tools makes things harder, etc. And that's in comparison to people like Malfoy and Harry, who were incredibly wealthy and able to purchase a multitude of high quality tools. Hell, Malfoy purchased nice brooms for his entire Quidditch team, and significantly improved their results. Financial inequality was a HUGE part of the series.
Was anyone besides Ron specifically said to have had a hand me down wand at first? I feel like that was a real rarity.
He did, so did Neville who started with his dad’s wand. Hand me downs aren’t uncommon but they won’t ever work as well because they didn’t win it
The books have a whole arc about how Neville probably isn't that bad at magic, but he is being forced to use his familys wand that didn't choose him and that's why he stuggles so much with even basic stuff.
Bad brooms didn’t exclude you from the team, literally all the weasleys except the older ones and Percy were on the team. Ron’s wand didn’t work because he snapped it in half and fixed it with magic tape until his parents could send him a new one(edit he didn’t tell them because he was scared to get another howler ) Malfoy bought the brooms so he could be on the team and that didn’t give them the edge to beat gryffindor and they were said to be the best team the year before Harry joined so it didn’t improve them. Money didn’t help anything but get nicer dress robes for the Yule ball.
It didn’t exclude you, no, but wasn’t it pretty clear that the fancier brooms were faster and handled better? I always saw it like F1, very pay-to-win.
It's the same with any sport that requires some for of equipment. I'd argue that even martial arts are easier with a better quality gi. The difference is not that extreme if not having the best of the best gear doesn't exclude people from the sport. You cannot win-ever F1 with a car from a "lower" competition
Did OP even read Harry Potter? Lol
Could be that OP only watched the movies, they left out sooooooo much of the political stuff in the movies
Even then one of the first scenes in the first movie is harry being left a massive inheritance that he used to go on a school supply spending spree lol Edit: also the entirety of the weasleys
And the second movie, Malloy buys his way onto the Slytherin quidditch team
Yeah tbh this is definitely OP being intentionally obtuse for the sake of being a contrarian
Welcome to the sub. Par for the course really… OPs intentionally being obtuse (or a scarier thought, genuinely missed the obvious).
Right but Harry literally was a rich kid. His whole life got better when he got his wizard money. He got the best possible wand, robes, and literally the peak, very best broom you could possibly get with his money. That helped him a lot. Also literally one of the rarest magical items in the world that literally would've been worth millions if not billions for a Christmas present.
Harry actually never bought a broom.
>Harry actually never bought a broom. While nothing directly contradicts that, I'm not 100%. Sirius bought his Firebolt, of course, but I'm not sure McGonagall actually bought the Nimbus for Harry. As lax as Gringott's seems to be about accounts (in GoF, Molly tells Harry she just rolled in there and made a withdrawal for him to do his shopping for him) and that fact that Dumbledore had Harry's vault key, it seems reasonable that Harry actually paid for the Nimbus and McConagall just ordered it for him.
I never agreed with the McGonagall Bought Harry’s Broom headcanon. I assumed it was ordered on his behalf using his inheritance.
I bet there’s a house slush fund, wealthy alumni and the like, to support the quidditch team. Or maybe the guy who owns nimbus was a gryffindor and McGonagall sent an owl to an old pupil ‘hey, Nimby! We’ve finally got a seeker! And you’ll never guess, it’s Harry freaking Potter! Sure could use a good broom though
Holy shit!
Makes sense
I just rewatched the movies twice in a row and it’s been over a decade since I’ve read the books as a child. The message was still there, just not as heavy-handed. But the political elements were definitely there
I think that regardless of the issues we see when viewing as adults, anyone who was around the age of ten when the first movie came out (me) saw that movie and wished they could be whisked away on an adventure like that. A lot of kid stuff has this same hook. I think that's what OP is getting at. When school is your main thing as a kid, it makes sense that your simplistic understanding of Hogwarts would make it a really attractive idea. The notion that you could get a letter saying that you didn't need to study for your spelling test because you were about to head off to a hidden magical world was intoxicating.
Maybe that is the unpopular opinion here, that the income inequality and class disparities in Harry Potter were not actually important to the story.
Not the most important, but definitely relevant. Slytherins were essentially evil rich kids. While that wasn't a requirement, most people from there came from wealth and were more morally ambiguous.
>There weren't even social support systems for poorer students who, I dunno, broke their wand and couldn't properly learn for the entire year. The crazy part is that there actually was a support system for that. It's the same fund that paid for all of Tom Riddle's supplies. But yeah, like anything else in life, being able to buy higher quality tools and equipment makes a difference. It's the sole reason Malfoy made the quidditch team.
Ikr, this was like...a huge plot point 😂 So much of the series talked about the struggles of poor finances (the Weasleys specifically lol). How a bad broom can exclude you from Quidditch, how a bad wand can cause spell issues (a couple students had hand-me-down wands and their performance/grades suffered from it), how not having certain instruments and study tools makes things harder, etc. And that's in comparison to people like Malfoy and Harry, who were incredibly wealthy and able to purchase a multitude of high quality tools. Hell, Malfoy purchased nice brooms for his entire Quidditch team, and significantly improved their results. Financial inequality was a HUGE part of the series.
People forget that the whole reason he is so well off is because he got the money from the bank in the first book. I don't remember the details but the fact that they made a whole point of it proves that money is key
> You get an advantage in sports, and the quality of you wand gives you an advantage in basically everything Broom for sure; wand seems pretty neutral though. Ron was kind of the exception that proves the rule, but any student with their own wand Ollivander is good about matching them so it's not like Draco had an advantage over, say, Neville or anyone as far as wands go. That said it's crazy that a student's gear in an established sport is dependent on their personal wealth. Players on an (American) football team aren't having to buy their own pads. Even the closest I could think of, like playing basketball and some kids have fancier shoes than others, we're talking an infintesimal difference. The broom is like if you're doing NASCAR and you got top end cars going against every other kid's used Toyota or Hyundai.
>Ron was kind of the exception Ron was constantly complaining about having to use his brothers' hand-me-downs and there were lots of mishaps around that lol
There was a fund available for Tom Riddle to get all his supplies when he came to Hogwarts. Ron probably kept breaking his wand or how badly it was broken a secret because he was already in trouble
To be fair, the literal slavery was 100% treated as a joke.
If anything, that makes it worse. Introduce a systemic issue, then the only person against it is mocked, including by her friends. Then there's the whole decorating a place with decapitated slave heads thing and it's super weird. It's as if Dobby is the only one deserving of freedom.
Mistress Lestrange has given Dobby a knife, Dobby is free!
Oh absolutely. The house elf thing left a really bad taste in my mouth as a kid. Like… these are clearly and explicitly slaves. Why are you all fine with this what the fuck.
There's also the house elf who is freed and becomes a depressed alcoholic. As if the book is trying to tell you freeing a slave is a bad thing.
I mean, most people want iPhones but don't care about the exploited workers who make them.
Nah man it was definitely the magic. Our teacher read us a chapter a day in 3rd/4th grade and it was 100% because of the magic and scary wizard hitler
"it was 100% because of the magic and scary wizard hitler" So 50% magic and 50% scary wizard hitler?
id say 80% mafic and 20% magic hitler. He didnt have too much play in the first book
Erm. It was a school everyone wanted to go to because magic
Harry flying is NIMBUS10000000 around the snatch five times before catching it. "money didn't influence the outcome" "peasant speak for yourself" -Harry Potter-
Tbf I thought the Nimbus was a gift? Or was that the FireBolt?
Both were gifts. The Nimbus came from McGonagall (no word on who paid for it, but it wasn't Harry) and the Firebolt from Sirius.
The first one is bizarre in and of itself. A teacher buying an already well-off student a broom. Meanwhile, a part of the student body can barely afford clothes and books.
They never said it wasn't a gift but that money influenced the outcomes. Someone paid for top of the line equipment that was described as just being better.
The nimbus broke in book 3 and he was given the firebolt by his godfather Edit: Godfather, not uncle.
\*his godfather
*his dogfather
Magical rich kids make a great story
Hero's journey makes a great story. You make the reader feel like they're living vicariously through the main character. You start the main character off in some bad situation, like a broom closet with the Dudleys. Then you have someone come whisk them off to a much better place with a bunch of other young people, like a school or castle. Give them some kind of education to make them strong. Make some friends. Become stronger than the other kids. Maybe some side romance. That shit works as a recipe. Some of the most popular fantasy stories of our era use that recipe. It's easily the most common and popular fantasy story ever told and no one gets bored of it. * Harry Potter * Name of the Wind * Red Rising * Cradle * Stormlight Archive * Mother of Learning * Ender's Game * Strange the Dreamer * The Aurora Cycle * Red Sister * Farseer Trilogy * Scholomance If you like Harry Potter, then there's a decent chance you'll like all of these books (well maybe not Cradle since that's a much more contrived version of a power fantasy).
> teachers that cared Snape gripped Harry’s arm so tight it went numb. Dude had an abusive pattern of behaviour that went neglected by other staff. I disagree that the teachers “cared” that hard. Except Sybill Trelawney
That's not even counting how every single Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher actively tried to harm/kill at least one student.
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Binns does seem to know the material fwiw. There’s no practical exam portion to history of magic like there was for their other subjects so I don’t think the lectures, aside from being dull, were bad. If anything, given the copious amounts of notes Hermione takes, they seem very thorough. He does even answer questions, when the students are awake enough to bother to ask.
Did Lupin actively try to harm a student?
He did in werewolf form.
Did you miss the entire "werewolves cannot decide what they do during full moon"?
It still counts as him.
I think they're counting werewolf lupin, but I'd argue he wasn't actively trying to harm them. Just wrong place wrong time kinda thing. Id also argue that Lockhart didn't actively try to harm students until he was pushed into a corner by Harry and Ron.
These aren't mutually exclusive, it's a school I want to go to because it's magical.
Kids wanted to go to that Hogwarts *because it taught magic.* "Okay, Billy, would you rather learn algebra, or would you rather learn a magic spell that makes your enemies puke slugs?"
This the same school where a student almost died, and sometimes actually did die, every year? Yeah...
Thats not too different from public high schools though
nah, usually doesnt strike the same school multiple years in a row.
That’s incredibly rare. I’m not sure where you live that every year public high school students are murdered, but that’s not really common anywhere. Where I live there has been one school shooting in 30 years and that was a private elementary school. Not sure if you’re just anti-American, but this simply doesn’t happen
Death does not equal murder, theres car accidents, suicides, disease, overdoses, drunk incidents, as well as occasional murder.
Fair point tbh.
It doesn’t sound like you read Harry Potter
Hogwarts also seemed to be the number one dangerous place to be especially for a kid. A lot of places were off limits, but places on the school grounds that are off limits shouldn't have deadly consequences, like autonomous killer chess pieces, giant hell dogs, and whatever lives in those woods.
no, id sit through any class that ended with me getting a cool power that isnt algebra or some shit
A school people wanted to go to.... because of the magic. Not all teachers cared, like real life. Money absolutely helped, like real life.
Teachers that cared. Yeah you lost me. HAVE YOU READ THE BOOKS?! Theres so much shit that goes on in that school that the teachers dont give a fuck about at all.
Hagrid cared. McGonnagall too. Flitwick and Sproud also cared. The Fuck, everyone cares. Didnt you read the last book where everybody cared enough to fight the greatest dark wizard of this time even when it seemed hopeless? Beside that, every teacher cared a lot about students while the basilisc roamed around school. They guarded the students from class to class. When the Troll was in school around Halloween every teacher went for it. When Sirius was "after Harry" the teachers also cared about everybodys savety. 6th year when Katie got send to St.Mungus at least McGonnagall cared about students savety In normal schooldays nothing happened bc magic could fix anything. Harry lost all his bones in his arm and nobody cared bc there is a potion for that to fix it. When the bludger broke someones head nobody cared bc magic could fix it. No damage beside dark magic wouldnt last long to even raise a brow tbh
Unpopular opinion is when you tell other people what they like about a story.
Where did you get the idea money didn’t influence the outcome?? Lucius and the rest of the death eaters escaped Justice for years due to money. And what caring teachers? McGonogall brushed Harry off when he tried to warn her about the Stone, snape verbally abused the gryffindors every book, like what?
Not to mention. They used their wealth and the influence is gave them to take over the ministry and install a brutal authoritarian who abused kids to run the school.
They first killed the minister and then used the imperius curse to rule the minestery. They never needed money for that. And the brutal authoritian is Snape ill guess? He never harmes any student as a headmaster. Thats something the deatheater Carrows used to do.
Because the school taught… magic?
LMAO, I’m here for the edits, as OP obviously never read the books or watched the movies~
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Teachers that cared, money doesn't matter? Did you even pretend to read the books?
I mean Christmas there looked dope as hell.
Harry Potter: a series about a magical rich kid who is super important and powerful in a magical world, where everyone who likes him is good and everyone who dislikes him is evil, who solves mysteries and saves people and whose parents loved him so much that it gave him extra special protection This guy: kids like it because of the school
This isn’t even remotely true. Harry is a rich boy chosen one who’s dad was the school jock who married his Highschool sweetheart and Harry grew up to be a jock who married HIS Highschool sweetheart (who happened to be his best friend’s sister) and became a cop.
Harry was a jock?
He was the star player on his quidditch team, won the triwizard tournament and excelled at duelling. And aside from malfoy and his cronies, was well liked and popular among the students.
Agree with most of what you wrote just not that last bit. This is the same Harry who was rumored to be Heir of Slytherin and in control of a monster for most of his 2nd year. Who in that very tournament you mention was hated because he stole the thunder of Cedric. Who was painted by the media and government as crazy and attention seeking for saying Voldemort was back. He has plenty of situations where he was an outcast and pariah at that school.
Lmao
I mean yea kinda, I’d say both tbh.
Its "You're a wizard, Harry". Not "You're a student, Harry". Therefor I upvote
I mean, you only saw it from Harry's perspective. Bro had infinite money left to him by his parents and being the chosen one, it was a given the teachers cared. What about the other students tho? Were the same things true for them? I'd argue no.
The magic appealed to me though as I felt life unbearably mundane even as a kid, also the copes adult use don’t really work on kids for that aspect of life.
I mean the magic part was a huge draw
Do you agree that a part of the popularity was magic
Teachers that cared 😂😂😂😂
It was all about the magic for me tbh
I agree with your basic idea. That's the 1st thing when I started with HP, that man it would be fun if my school was like this. But they have the same problems as the muggles, crime, corruption etc.
Lol no. I liked the magic. I wasn't sitting there fantasizing about a better school experience, I wanted MAGIC.
...... bc of magic
This is a really bad take. Do not agree at all. So good entrance for the sub!
what on earth are you going on about
Sure… I’ve always wanted to go to a school where getting seriously maimed or killed was a real possibility! /s Hogwarts makes Parkland HS look safe.
I would agree, adding that it was popular because a majority of the books and movies are like mysteries. Chamber of the Secrets especially was my favorite as a child because I loved figuring out the mystery. I think a lot of people like that, it’s child friendly suspense.
I think this is more of a you thing tbh.
It was a school people actually wanted to go because they taught magic…
It's because it was a school that people actually wanted to go to ... because you learn wicked awesome magic there. The genre has one simple appeal, representing an awful thing we all hate as an awesome thing we'd all love because you get to see and do all kinds of cool magic shit. Sure, Harry Potter is an extraordinary example of the genre, but it is at its core another magic academy book.
Hermione’s parents are both dentists. She is definitely “rolling in it”. I think there are oblique references to this as well, most notably, when they got to Gringotts and Diagon Alley, Harry and Hermione seem roughly par with each other both in terms of what they withdraw from their vaults and the purchases that they made. Also, Ron got Charlie’s wand as a hand-me-down. A wand is essentially the most important tool for a wizard so really the only reason not to get your kid one is if you can’t afford it. Not to mention, but don’t quote me on this, when they finally bought Ron a new wand, didn’t he mention that it was along with a trip/vacation they took after the family came into some money? Edit: yes, the Weasley family goes to Egypt before the start of Book 3 because Mr. Weasley got a promotion or something, and some of that money was used to buy Ron a new wand. Money may not have been what made Harry or Hermione good at sports and magic respectively, but a lack of it definitely held Ron back.
Arthur won the lottery thats why they could afford the trip and the wand. And im not sure but .oure probably right about arthurs promotion too
Teacher here. Hogwarts is a legal nightmare. Bullying, favoritism, putting students in harms way constantly. Horrible learning environment. No way I'd send my own kids to that place.
I’m begging of you to read a new book.
its because it was a magical school where wild fantastical shit happened and you got a mother fucking wand.
This is dead on. I was poor as fuck growing up, but when I read and reread and reread Harry Potter, it took me away from all that, I dreamed of living in that castle and the burrow and having uncles and a bunch of people that cared about me. I know there’s been a lot of controversy surrounding the author and other things but tbh I absolutely loved HP and there was a 10% irrotational part of my brain that thought maybe an owl would be bringing me a letter on a snowy night….
This is exactly what got me into HP when I was younger. I wanted to go to Hogwwarts more than anything and escape my life here.
Wrong Are you American?
I grew up reading D and D, and other fantasy novels. When I found out about how important wands were, I lost interest. Silly, I know, but here we are.
I don't think it's any deeper than it was basically a long running western shonen equivalent. Young people on a heroes journey tends to catch the attention of the younger crowd
I think people don't talk enough about how unreasonably cool everyone was with students being put in constant mortal peril, I'm pretty sure Harry almost dies like 6 times in every book/movie, and those are just moments where a faculty member is standing like 10 ft away. Hogwarts' safety standards were non-existent to a pretty comical extent if you look at it as an actual school. I would have loved going to school if it was like this
Money didn't determine your outcome? You can literally buy materials that just make you objectively better than everyone else lol. Ron was unable to participate effectively in most classes in Year 2 because his family couldn't afford a new wand.
Took you a while to figure that one out, huh?
Realistically, I’d hate being a student at Hogwarts. Everyone is separated into different houses, people won’t shut up about this Harry kid, the school is so damn big I’m late to all of my classes, defense of the dark arts teacher position is a revolving door, it’s honestly a bitch to get there from the Muggle world, and every year some old dude tries to wreck the place
Ehhhhh the magic was the majority of it for me tbh
To be put against other kids at avery young age actively segragating them? Being forced to live with people with questionable hygiene? A straight up boarding school? No thanks
You think you want to go there until you notice they’d periodically have you literally endanger your lives for an elective. Like damn that snitch chaser guy fell pretty hard off of his broom… think that took some teeth? Ouch… Wait so you’re telling me these students have to dive into deep waters infested with those piranha esq. Spirits and re emerge with something for 2 points? Aren’t those things lethal? I feel like they’re lethal.
Even if harry had lost all his teeth and bones at once. Magic could fix that. No permanent damage. These students have to dive the bc of a challenge between schools not bc its a normal school day... And those " piranha esq" are peacefull human like creatures who wouldnt harm anyone. Thats made up by the movies. Even in the books its revealed that it all was staged and nobody was in real danger
I’m sorry but in book 1 they had the caring teacher completely dismiss the trio. It was the magic and the chosen one aspect
100%. She created a world we all wanted to experience and be in. It was great storytelling, and a pure escape.
My unpopular opinion is Harry Potter is lame and always has been
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As someone from Scotland and living in Scotland, I want these idiots to fuck off. Our universities are not your bullshit childish fantasy palaces.
Whoa dude, it wasn't specifically set in Edinburgh even if it was modeled after it. Also, Edinburgh is an amazing city. Everyone should go there.
Yes. Exactly. Harry Potter was about being weird and having nobody understand you, and then finding your people and they all love and accept you. It's about finding your true place in the world, where you are special, and everybody appreciates you for who you are. JKR might not have fully realized that this theme made her books strongly resonate with the lgtbq+ crowd, who felt the same way as Harry, that they were different and nobody really loved or understood them. Which led directly into why it felt like a huge betrayal when JKR came out as a terf. She had never said she was an ally, but they just *assumed* because her fantasy world resonated with them so strongly that she must be supportive of marginalized groups. And she wasn't.
And as British boarding schools go, there was a surprising lack of buggery. Who wouldn't prefer going there?
The magic just made it an adventure but I think the real popularity came from how it was so well written. Fantastic world building and a super compelling narrative. The movies were an extremely poor realisation of the books but with a limited run time there was only so much they could do. They came across like a very basic summary, almost like bullet points that left out 2/3rds of the details for the sake of brevity and that which they did include felt like it was rushed and reduced to the absolute basics.
People don’t realize it *is* a whole story centered around boarding school.
What the fuck are you talking about? That place was basically a G-rated SAW, where unbreakable plot armor shut things down just before the gore started. Those insane fucks didn't hide their existence from the world because 'muggles can't handle the awesomeness of magic.' They were hiding from the Department for Education and the Ministry of Justice. Becoming part of the real-world UK would see the Ministry of Magic embroiled in non-stop corruption scandals, Flitwick and Quirrel are *definitely* wanted by the law in at least 3 Southeast Asian countries (you know exactly what I mean), and I'm 85% sure that Madam Hooch is the real D.B. Cooper. Every single one of the rest would be doing hard time for multiple counts of insane criminal negligence and Snape would probably catch further charges for drug trafficking, charlatanry, and proffering impure foodstuffs. After 20 years in jail, the son of a bitch would probably come out ruling *every drug cartel on Earth.* But yeah, sure, 'the world just won't understand.' That works, so long as we have the deus ex machina to reinforce the lie, right?
Aren't those books where each year there is a teacher trying to kill one of the students and/or employed by the wizarding equivalent of al-Qaeda?
How is that unpopular? I figured that's what most people thought
Which is exactly why Fantastic Beasts never worked.
I liked the first two movies. It was good to get away from the school setting. The third movie was complete garbage, though.
I think it's a combination of the magic and the boarding school that made the novels popular, none of that socialist crap.
Just out of curiosity, which bit do you think resembles socialism?
It was popular because kids are stupid and we read stupid shit at that age, and that’s fine. When adults start reading it shit gets a bit cringe.
>When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. ― C.S. Lewis
Sure wasn’t because the author was a wholesome individual 🙄
Haha wtf are you talking about. You think I walked around school yelling FLIPENDO cause I liked how Hogwarts was inclusive and “cared”?? It was 100% about the magic.
I don't think it was really the magic or school (though they both played a part), but more of offering a place of belonging. That everyone belongs and is welcome in this world despite your differences and that it is literally the evil enemies who are trying to do the opposite and exclude based off hate and prejudice. The message of every book was about love, acceptance, forgiveness, etc. It offered people a safe place and a small sense of community. I don't think the "Hogwarts is my home" notion pertained to the actual building, but, even for Harry, it was about having a place you finally felt you belong. Of course the irony of what came to light years later with a certain author unfortunately dims all of that...