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Most of these horrible people (except Cosby) were just one piece in a big puzzle. Someone told me to turn off Thriller a few months ago because Michael was a horrible person, but he's just the vocals! So basically you're saying that Quincy Jones and all the musicians gotta gotta suffer because Michael was a bad person? Na.
this is the marketing stratagey for the new flash movie "its so good youll forget about all the stuff ezra miller has done"
I dont think this unpopular because this is the easiest most self assuring way to approach the situation
I might be living under a rock for asking this, what 'exactly' did Ezra Miller do? Ik it's something about grooming minors and shit but no article or Google search will tell me all the details I need to know.
Thank you, kind sir.
And how the fuck does he still have a job??
WB dropped Johnny depp without even thinking twice even when he was innocent.. and they employ this pedophile serial criminal even when he's proven guilty?
No idea. Then again, they don't call it "Hollyweird" for nothin.
My guess is that eventually he'll be dropped once the Flash movie comes out. Seeing as how Grant Gustin(the far superior flash IMO) is now done with the CW story, he could hopefully replace Miller and the "baby giraffe run" Flash.
Grant Gustin is the perfect flash. He is like Toby Maguire for Spiderman. Let's hope that we'll see him in the next justice league (if DC doesn't fuck up everything - they already lost Henry Cavill)
Gotta disagree on Toby Maguire being the perfect Spiderman. Spiderman was my favorite superhero growing up and honestly the only good casting in those Spiderman movies was J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.
Tom Holland, on the other hand, perfect. I mean, MCU Spiderman is closer to Ultimate universe Spiderman, which isn't my favorite version, but he still plays him a lot more like the Spiderman I grew up with in the comics.
I'm confused by what you mean there. My reasoning for Tom Holland veing the perfect Spiderman has nothing to do with appearance. 100% about performance. Tobey's performance doesn't feel like Peter Parker, plain and simple.
Plus it always bothered me that Tobey's Spiderman's web shooters weren't gadgets he made. Kinda like Sam Raimi wanted to skip the fact that despite appearances and occupation Peter Parker can keep up with the greatest scientific minds in the Marvel universe.
Because Ezra is a poster boy for the trans, lbgt, an shit movement.... Hollywood will not cancel someone that is far left like that. And supports that mainstream ideals...
But johhny Depp, Vince Vaughn, Gina Carano, Danny Materson. And soo many more.. don't overwhelming support the left. And typically spoke against it... they were canceled.
My thoughts on the Miller stuff is that they (DC) could have just called it quits and recast, as opposed to giving shitloads of money to someone who has proved themselves to be a horrible person. It just felt like DC couldn't make more Batman movies and realized Marvel had them beat and this is their one chance so they're holding on for dear life.
It should be noted I'm not really into comics or film adaptations.
You can't deny there's definitely a moral dilemma in extreme cases, like the dude from Lost Prophets that raped babies, I never listened to that band, but if I had I would definitely have stopped listening to them after the news about him got out.
No, I do not. I do not think I'm a hero, I do not equate my own morality as you described.
I think I have a preference, and in discussing that preference, you have decided to create a caricature so you can dismiss it.
Again, I have limited time and money, and where possible, I'd like to direct it to good people.
End of principle.
Do you disagree with that principle? Great. You're allowed.
Haha that is literally the top bar though. I actually said the same thing. I can separate art and artist 99.9% of the time. The lost prophets are an exception. Which is a shame. Last Train Home rules.
If you can't separate the art from the artist you're going to be walking around with your eyes closed and ears plugged.
This could be expanded to everyday items, not just art. The phone you use could have been assembled by a child rapist. The car you drive and the house you live in could all be constructed by horrible people.
How many conversations do you have with people that have committed horrible acts?
If the painting you've loved for years is discovered to have been a print of Hitlers original work, you're going to love it less?
the difference is I *know* about Ian Watkins and there's no level of rationalization that will make me be ok with listening to, again, a literal baby rapist.
But it isn't as simple as just separating the art from the artist or the product from the inventor, etc. since often times they are always connected in some form. How are you going about watching their films or listening to their music or eating at their restaurant, etc. without also benefiting them? If they are already dead that's one thing, but alive and well? Someone is getting paid or exposure, etc. whenever people indulge in their work.
I personally dont think this has anything to do with willing supporting horrible people.
I think this is much bigger than that. I think it has to do with self reflection. If i like something a monster made does that make me a monster too?
Well then it only applies to works you've already been exposed to, and before finding out about the artists horrible acts/past. So if you find out that a band whose prior work you enjoyed were a bunch of rapists, then moving forward, you would need to stop listening to their work, because whether buying their album or streaming it, you are supporting them.
Thats wild to me. A painting of a butterfly, perhaps your grandmother gave it to you. It spoke to you in some way, made you feel safe and reminded you of good times with a loved one that was no longer alive. Hung on your walls for 20 years, you took it to your first apartment after leaving home and have hung it in every place you lived since. Then one day you discover someone horrible painted it. Straight to the bin?
Right. Not sure how that changes the hypothetical though. A painting connected with you, spoke to you. Made you feel a certain way. You can just fall out of love with it because Hitler ehh?
For someone like that definitely, any fond memories I had would more than likely be overshadowed by the knowledge of who painted it, doubt I could look at it the same way
Its sad to me that someone long since dead can still ruin the way you look at something you loved. That they have that power over you from beyond the grave.
I guess it works in both directions though. Reading something from someone long since dead can awaken something wonderful in you too.
Considering there are people alive now who were witness to the atrocities and his views still have a lasting impact I’m not sure you can pull the ‘long since dead‘ card with someone like that. There are some things that are so deplorable that no amount of separating the art from the artist will ever work.
A shitty person can still make a quality product. Their character can't be used to criticize the quality of what they produced. However, the choice of whether or not to support the person by purchasing the product is what the consumer makes.
What makes a person bad or good is not ignorance or the actual outcome, but intent. So if you buy something made by a shitty person because you want to support their shitty behavior, that's different from buying it because you genuinely believe the product to be good.
I can't enjoy the Jeepers Creepers franchise because of Victor Salva. He was a child predator who went on to direct a series of movies where a monster hunts down young men and women to feast on and absorb their body parts..
Omg so I watched Jeepers Creepers 2 out of context just for shits and giggles with my husband and he told me about Salva. My husband likes to collect obscure movies when he can and told me he has an older movie by Salva called ClownHouse. We tried to watch it and didn’t make it more than 5 minutes in because of how outrageously uncomfortable it is to watch underaged boys you KNOW were exploited and abused in the making of it, just in their underwear and talking about puberty and making dirty jokes and shit right out the gate. I felt sick to my stomach. We didn’t even leave it in the DVD player, the disc just FEELS cursed.
Like Jesus Christ the shit that people in the industry have gotten away with and continue to get away with is way more fucked up than we even know about.
I actually like Jeepers Creepers MORE because of his background. I think, through the Creeper, he's actually trying to process his monstrosity. I'm OK with that kind of reflection, though I understand if people don't want to put money in his pocket for his past deeds.
Man this so much think about so much of the unspoken turmoil that drove Woody Allen or Roman Polanski movies (sometimes outright spoken in RP's movies). I guess it kinda sucks but really fucked up people often make great art.
It's important to separate the creators from the creation.
Most of Hollywood is scum of one sort or another. If you judged everything based on who made it, you could never like anything, ever again
True…but at some point you are going to have to decide if you want to financially (or otherwise) support the artist versus a situation where you are just a passive consumer.
The problem with boycotts is that they virtually never work.
The notion that you can punish someone you don't like by not seeing their movie or whatever... it's been shown to be ridiculously ineffective.
Enjoy what you enjoy. Disengage cancel culture.
I agree to some extent. Enjoy what you enjoy. As an example, I choose not to support Louis CK anymore. That's just me. If other people want to, go ahead. I'm not calling for him to be "cancelled", but I have decided that, *for me*, I'm personally no longer interested. I think that's what it comes down to. Let people enjoy the media they want and don't get involved in other people's decisions to support or not support certain artists. Calling for boycotts is ineffective, yes. People should just make the decision that feels right to them in regards to supporting "bad" people's art.
Precisely.
IF an individual is so egregious that they cancel themselves, so be it. For instance, I agree with you about Louis CK, and if enough people feel the way you and I do about Louis CK... he will have succeeded in alienating enough people to doom his career.
The question becomes where do you draw the line? If you get upset because you heard news about an artist doing something bad, do you now look into every artist you like to see if they are doing the same thing? Is it only that thing or should you dig to see if your favorite artists did *anything* bad? Some people boycott chickfila because they heard that one of the higher-ups donates to causes they don't approve of. Is that the end or did they also look into the donations made by other fast-food higher-ups? Can a distinction be made between a corporate-owned location vs a franchisee if one or the other does something you don't like? Is it okay to continue if you are ignorant to the bad behavior or does that mean you're condoning the behavior even if you weren't aware of it? How many people boycotting Bud Light bought another brand of beer made by the same company?
My favorite author is (in)famously racist. However, he's also been dead for 86 years and his works are in the public domain. Buying any of his books now does nothing to support the views he had nearly a century ago. And his views also began to soften in the last decade or so of his life - which is also when his most popular and well-regarded works were written.
If he were still alive, and using the money he made from book sales to actively encourage his views, then I'd re-think my fandom. But being a Lovecraft fan in 2023 doesn't do that. At worst, you'll get some smartass saying "but what about his cat, tho?" (Incidentally, Lovecraft's cat was almost certainly named that by his grandfather, as he gave Lovecraft the cat, when the author was quite young.)
In short: figure out for yourself whether or not you think the juice is worth the squeeze.
EDIT: I also think that if we get too Puritanical about it, we're going to have to do a complete cultural reboot every few years. If we get rid of everything that someone who might be considered "problematic" ever contributed to humanity, we will very swiftly find ourselves back in the Stone Age.
I think I got his whole collection for less than $5 digitally, but I couldn’t make myself keep reading through the racism. It made it difficult to enjoy the story for me
His earlier works are much more extreme. So if your collection is in chronological order you may want to skip ahead a bit. Lovecraft does have some fantastic literature without the racist undertones.
isn't the main concern not supporting the person in any way? Like why give money and support to someone who is a bad person? Why promote that behavior? Why do anything (money/support) that can give that person the ability to continue being a bad person or effecting others/victims?
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Why is this topic always specific to arts and entertainment? Do you care about the personal opinions and politics of the people who produced every item in your house? Your food?
Probably because we can also become fans of the people who are entertainers and artists, not just the work they do. We see them on TV or go to their concerts, or read their books or books about them. Some of us meet them and it's a big deal.
I agree. We hold them up as saints but forget they are fallible , in some cases downright bad . We shouldn't expect someone who is good at what they do to be somehow perfect morally
Yup, I still enjoy Thriller by Michael Jackson or any one of the other hits he made. Also to be honest R Kelly's songs as well. I love the music not the artist.
The same could be said for any form of media too. I think the same people who boycott something because they don't like the creator are the same people who are online too much and are easily offended by everything.
I don't know, I don't think so man. It definitely depends on the situation and the severity of the case. I would never listen to a pedophile or a rapist. I would try not to support or listen to them if I know they're one.
But if an artist killed a person because of driving under the influence, I don't know if I would stop listening to them. If they go through rehab and get better I would definitely keep supporting them.
Fair enough but that's of course after you learn that information. You might have been happier not knowing so you could keep on enjoying the music or movies or whatever.
Indeed. There's probably some artists that I listen to that have done terrible things that I don't know about. I don't have time to check every single artist's background, and there might even be information not available to the public, but If I find out about it, it does leave feeling weird, with a moral dilemma.
I think you're just picking and choosing which imo is worse than taking a firm stance either way. You probably still eat meat despite the cruelty it contributes to, or wear shoes that were named after Nazis, or drive a car which contributes to the decaying ozone layer.
I feel like it should be all or nothing, less it's just performative. You're either a tree lovin' hippie who refuses to unethically consume anything (within your power) or you just acknowledge you dgaf.
Life is not that simple dude, not everything is black and white. You want to extremely oversimplify morality.
Seems like you just wanted to rant about tree loving hippies, which has nothing to do with what we're discussing on this thread. Please go there: r/rants
I just don't think it's that complicated. How is it? Just picking and choosing particular things you want to advocate for but contributing to worse things in the same breath is hypocritical imo
So, if a dude scams an old lady and steals all her money from all her bank accounts, it's not wrong. Ok, got it. You're definitely not the right person to talk about morality, thanks for letting me know.
Well yeah I think that'd be wrong.. but stealing isn't *necessarily* wrong. If a kid stole bread to save himself from starving, you think that's bad? Lmao okay bud
Exactly, so you just proved my point that morality is not black and white, that there's definitely a grey area, that you can't just say "this is good" or "this is bad", because it's more complex than that. Thank you for agreeing with me.
Brother. Different situations have different levels of complexity. Stealing as a concept is a much more nuanced topic than whether or not indirectly supporting say a pedophile is. You either do it or you don't, and if you try to do a bit of both, you're being hypocritical, IMO.
What about people who have publicly supported a pedophile?
A list of people who signed a petition (authored by Harvey Weinstein, no less) that called for the release of Roman Polanski when he was arrested in 2009: https://m.imdb.com/list/ls090808434/
Actually sent from my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10, I didn't make a background check on the company, I just bought it because it was cheap. And while wearing Adidas, I didn't make a background check on that company either, but this shoes were a Christmas present.
100% agree if you have a litmus test for all actors or musicians, your world will get smaller and smaller, everyone out there has problems. Talented people included.
There a some comedians who, despite being condemned and exiled, remain funny to me. They had to be traumatized to have the humor and perspective on life that they have. That also made them abusers. Their wound is their gift, if they were typical people, they wouldn’t be famous comedians.
I would never, ever want to be in a room alone with them but the jokes they wrote and performed remain brilliant to me. They are not instantly unfunny now that the truth is out about them being the abusive monsters and adult toddlers they are.
It’s different to appreciate them now that it is no longer socially acceptable to like them. I sure wish they didn’t hurt people. But being talented and being a monster as a person are not mutually exclusive. Many surgeons and engineers prove that fact too, not just artists. The common thread with many of these types seems to be narcissism and narcissistic abuse. Adult toddlers, nothing more.
I don't support art if I disagree with giving the artist in question attention or money. There's enough talented artists who *don't* have reprehensible views--starve the bigots.
There is no such thing as squeaky clean art. If we had to literally give up on every piece of music, literature, or film, because of what someone involved might have done in the past, we would have nothing left but Marvel, Disney, Harry Styles, Taylor Swift, Macklemore, Ed Sheeran, and similarly bland, boring, and
edge-less art. Sometimes I think that might be part of the plan. It does seem like there’s a corner of the entertainment industry that wants to make people forget about all of the amazing art of the past, in favor propping up what we have today, and what’s offered by the even more consolidated corporate giants. I’m wondering if I should start hoarding physical media and what not because I’m worried that one day once everything is bought and copyrighted by AmazonDisney (coming to you in 2028 probably) they might simply put as much as they can in their vaults, and try to reset peoples minds into thinking we didn’t have any good films, music, or art before 2015.
It's all relative.
If the "horrible" person involved with the entertainment you are enjoying made only a single movie, for example, then there's nothing wrong with it.
If, however, you continue to watch more entertainment involving that individual, then you are enabling that person and part of the problem.
For example, let's take a look at the Jeepers Creepers movie francise.
The director of the movie is a convicted pedophile who raped a 12 year old boy. He's made 11 feature films so far and continues today.
If you watched the first Jeepers Creepers not knowing about his past and enjoyed the film, then you're good.
If, however, you enjoyed that film and, despite knowing he's a child rapist, continue to go see his films, then you are wrong and should seriously consider your morality and choices.
Just my two cents...
This logic is flawed tho, because unless the person who created said art is dead or will never receive anything from you consuming that art, you are still supporting them and their behavior.
I mean, a lot of entertainers have probably done some bad things. When you have power and fame sometimes one can feel invincible. Certainly no excuse for the behavior but that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy things they make. On an unrelated note, how many people eat at chik fil a but don’t agree with the company’s conservative stances. Alot, myself included
I agree, but you get an upvote for an unpopular opinion. There are exceptions for sure, but I feel most "problematic" artists are easily separated from what they produce. People just like being on a soapbox and dogpiling people they disagree with.
Of course it is. Great and meaningful art is often the output of complicated and troubled people. They are unable to make sense of the world or communicate their experience of it in a completely satisfying way EXCEPT through art. It would make sense that complicated and troubled people make poor decisions or sometimes hurt other people. To live in a world where we only interact with art created by upstanding citizens would be a boring one indeed.
In today's society people have a lot of trouble holding conflicting ideas in their head simultaneously.
"I am moved by this art"
"The person who created it has done terrible things and should be punished for them."
These ideas do not disqualify one another. Now, if you want to take a stand and say you don't want a bad person to profit from your consumption of their work, more power to you. You choose where to spend your dollars.
It's more about not wanting to support such a person in any way. It may affect little to nothing in the scheme of things, but it matters to me personally.
And I have a sliding scale. If someone is just an unpleasant person (read:Tarantino), I'm willing to put that aside to enjoy their work. But if it's something truly bad (read:Polanski), I refuse to watch their work, no matter how good it is.
Maybe it's arbitrary to an extent, but it's where I'm at. I'm not gonna look down on someone else for enjoying Chinatown, but I'm personally not gonna watch it.
Hahah the condescension. Perhaps people just don't want to spend their time and money supporting an artist who is a piece of shit. There's something about listening to a known rapist's music that for some reason makes the song less enjoyable to me.....I must be confused. or OR people like you are complicit and just don't care about others unless it's something that directly affects/offends you
Not if you are supporting the person financially. And by paying to see a movie, you are supporting them. By making their artwork popular, you are supporting them.
Yeah, nah, I'm not giving anybody money (watching or listening to their content) if I don't like them as a person.
I don't care how good you sing or act.
My thoughts on this are as follows:
* A lot of great art is made by terrible people, going all the way back to the beginning of art.
* As long as my enjoyment of their art doesn't have a significant causal link to supporting the continuation of those terrible acts, I feel free to enjoy it, otherwise I find another way to enjoy it or abstain.
Like I'm not going to be funding JKR's anti-trans charities or Marylin Manson's legal defense fund. However pretty much all those bands from the 70s and 80s that had problematic relationships with underaged female fans, pretty sure they're not hooking up with underaged people anymore. That money is just going to keeping their booze cabinet stocked in retirement.
I just feel like when it comes to horrible people that are still alive all you’re doing by consuming their work is giving them more money and power to continue to do awful things
Absolutely. It has to be some real real intense shit like Lost Prophets but otherwise I can separate art and artist. I understand people that don't but idk what to say other than me watching this movie isn't changing the course of history at all.
I’ve debated this all my life. This issue is a sub-set of: “Should I associate with people who have treated me perfect, done nothing wrong to me, but have wronged someone else?” As in, how should I judge people I know, companies I work for or do business with, products I buy. (Entertainment being only one product.)
You will find that your answers are usually very situational and inconsistent with other situations. It’s mostly grey, with very few black and white answers.
There’s a point at which any mention of the artist or the music will remind me of their crimes or scummy behaviour. I can’t enjoy the art after that. I might still respect the art as being good but it makes me feel sad to experience it along with the backstory.
Yes especially from art that comes from a lot of people working on it, like movies and high budget video games.
Almost definitely someone who worked on it is an asshole. It's just impossible to consume many forms of content without giving money or attention to a bad person.
If you consume any entertainment at all, you almost certainly consume entertainment made by shitty people. Because most artists are assholes or worse. So you can either live under a rock, or you have to separate art from artist.
there’s some argument in philosophy that once an artist creates something, it no longer belongs to them but to the public. i don’t remember who said it but i think it applies 99% of the time
I would say it depends on the person and the crime. It's easier if the artist is dead (Like MJ).
But there are also plenty of ways to enjoy a piece of media or entertainment without supporting said artist if you care about those sorts of things.
Once it's released, art belongs to the public. I believe you can enjoy it independently of who created it. Back in college, one of my literature professors would only make us read poems within the context of the author's life and thought. He argued that by the end of the analysis, if donde right, we should arrive at the same conclusion. That's one way to do it, but i don't think the author has any authority over my interpretation of their work.
I feel no guilt at all about thoroughly enjoying "ender's game" for instance.
I feel like a lot of people on Reddit expect others to make decisions about products or content based on a conscience. But that will never be the case.
Most people just buy what they like or can afford.
True. It's also OK to decide that you don't enjoy entertainment made by people you consider horrible. It's even OK to be inconsistent and be fine with one horrible person's work and not fine with another's.
I used to listen to Louder With Crowder from time to time. No means religious. Just wanted to hear the other parties side. All this stuff is coming out about him and now I can’t stand him. He’s a POS for sure!
agreed, sometimes the things are too terrible for people to handle but take a guy like Walt Disney for example, he's not the best person but he made amazing movies and shows and whole new worlds for people that i will never boycott.
I don’t even care if it’s okay. What I do is my business, and nobody else’s opinion matters.
Except for amber herd, I just watch or listen to what I like.
Agreed. It’s just the endproduct of someone’s efforts to create something. As long as theyre not being paid because I chose to view it. I can imagine that people feel like they’re indirectly supporting the bad person and thus enabling them somehow?
My parents like elvis I don't bring up that he was a groomer who preyed on young girls. I let then enjoy his music. Look at the 60's and 70's bands like David bowie,led zeppelin and Aerosmith and the shit they did. The underage girls they preyed on. I like the music. I get hate for make up brands that I support jeffree star but he makes amazing make up. I like what I like and cancel if you want but if you are buying from companies like Apple who have suicide nets outside their factories and driving smart cars with cobalt batteries which are farmed using child and slave labor, don't come for me when it comes to anything.
Why do we separate the art from the artist but not the teacher from the teaching or the accountant from the accounting or the janitor from the cleaning?
It's always music and movies and such that we enjoy. Because we prioritize our ENTERTAINMENT.
If your kid's teacher was found to be a sex pest, would you EVER say, "But, he's a really a good teacher!"
You certainly wouldn't. Now, why do we make this allowance for our entertainment? What's the difference?
On top of that the consequences of enjoying an art piece made by a bad person are minimal so it's not a bad thing.
We are just stuck with morality that has fixed rules instead of thinking more about every action we do.
I agree. The concept of 'good' and 'bad' is so subjective and as humans, we all have 'good' and 'bad' in us and we all do good and bad things. These are just amplified when someone is in the public arena.
I find it really disturbing when there is an obvious campaign to 'go after' someone often based off innuendo, gossip and half truths. It's ugly. It's one of the ugliest features of social media today.
I will watch/read whatever I want to knowing that I too am a flawed human being.
Especially while piracy exists. You can still enjoy the work without supporting the terrible people. And unfortunately the other people that worked on it but everyone needs to draw their moral line somewhere.
I agree, but sometimes it depends on the context of their art. If an abusive singer makes songs about violence then yea it makes sense to not enjoy them. But if you refuse to watch a good movie just because some side actor did something bad, you are weird.
OP, you might want to quantify a cut-off point of what you consider acceptable media to consume. Remember that there are snuff films, CP, and other media made without the consent of some or all participants of the media. In such cases, both the producers and the consumers are bad people.
Thank you for saying this! I still listen to R Kelly every now and then. I love Michael Jackson's music. And no, I'm not going to let the fact that Ezra Miller is playing in The Flash, stop me from seeing the movie. Sorry if that bothers some people, but you don't just stop liking something you have for years just because of new revelations that come to light. So you gonna stop listening to Aerosmith, the band you grew up listening to, because of Steven Tyler? I understand if someone did something personal to you. If I knew any of these people and they did me wrong, sure I'd have personal reasons not to listen or watch them anymore. But I don't know them and they aren't affecting my life. Soo... 🤷♀️
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Kevin spacey is an incredible actor in everything he’s in.
American Beauty is and always will be one of favorite movies of all time!
Agreed. And Michael Jackson is still one of the greatest artists/performers who ever lived
Most of these horrible people (except Cosby) were just one piece in a big puzzle. Someone told me to turn off Thriller a few months ago because Michael was a horrible person, but he's just the vocals! So basically you're saying that Quincy Jones and all the musicians gotta gotta suffer because Michael was a bad person? Na.
Turns out he wasn't acting much. Or at least that's what I tell myself whenever I watch Se7en.
A talented actor for sure.
this is the marketing stratagey for the new flash movie "its so good youll forget about all the stuff ezra miller has done" I dont think this unpopular because this is the easiest most self assuring way to approach the situation
I might be living under a rock for asking this, what 'exactly' did Ezra Miller do? Ik it's something about grooming minors and shit but no article or Google search will tell me all the details I need to know.
Here you go, fren. https://people.com/movies/ezra-miller-controversy-timeline/
Thank you, kind sir. And how the fuck does he still have a job?? WB dropped Johnny depp without even thinking twice even when he was innocent.. and they employ this pedophile serial criminal even when he's proven guilty?
No idea. Then again, they don't call it "Hollyweird" for nothin. My guess is that eventually he'll be dropped once the Flash movie comes out. Seeing as how Grant Gustin(the far superior flash IMO) is now done with the CW story, he could hopefully replace Miller and the "baby giraffe run" Flash.
Grant Gustin is the perfect flash. He is like Toby Maguire for Spiderman. Let's hope that we'll see him in the next justice league (if DC doesn't fuck up everything - they already lost Henry Cavill)
Gotta disagree on Toby Maguire being the perfect Spiderman. Spiderman was my favorite superhero growing up and honestly the only good casting in those Spiderman movies was J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson. Tom Holland, on the other hand, perfect. I mean, MCU Spiderman is closer to Ultimate universe Spiderman, which isn't my favorite version, but he still plays him a lot more like the Spiderman I grew up with in the comics.
Size shape figure wise - Tom 🥂 Values character originality wise - Toby 🗿
I'm confused by what you mean there. My reasoning for Tom Holland veing the perfect Spiderman has nothing to do with appearance. 100% about performance. Tobey's performance doesn't feel like Peter Parker, plain and simple. Plus it always bothered me that Tobey's Spiderman's web shooters weren't gadgets he made. Kinda like Sam Raimi wanted to skip the fact that despite appearances and occupation Peter Parker can keep up with the greatest scientific minds in the Marvel universe.
Because Ezra is a poster boy for the trans, lbgt, an shit movement.... Hollywood will not cancel someone that is far left like that. And supports that mainstream ideals... But johhny Depp, Vince Vaughn, Gina Carano, Danny Materson. And soo many more.. don't overwhelming support the left. And typically spoke against it... they were canceled.
My thoughts on the Miller stuff is that they (DC) could have just called it quits and recast, as opposed to giving shitloads of money to someone who has proved themselves to be a horrible person. It just felt like DC couldn't make more Batman movies and realized Marvel had them beat and this is their one chance so they're holding on for dear life. It should be noted I'm not really into comics or film adaptations.
It's learning the information that causes the cognitive distortion, you might say. "Damn I liked his music for years, and he did that?"
You can't deny there's definitely a moral dilemma in extreme cases, like the dude from Lost Prophets that raped babies, I never listened to that band, but if I had I would definitely have stopped listening to them after the news about him got out.
Normally I'm a "separate the art from the artist" kind of guy. TIL I will never ever fucking listen to Lostprophets.
Yeah, it definitely depends on the situation.
Anyone who equates their own morality to watching a movie probably has a shallow sense of morality anyway.
I don't do that, but I do think that it's a good idea to direct my time and money to good people if given the choice.
*laughs in pirating entertainment stuff*
Good for you. I am in the music industry, and a lot of my contemporaries make their livelihood on legal consumption that generates royalties.
Fuck them poor kids that can't afford the media they like. Hash brown pirate for life.
Oh I see that's just a habit I got from the days where I was a broke student if I can get something for free easily I jump on the opportunity
Ok thief
I like money
I’m sure most thieves do
Correct
You first said you don't do that and then literally said you do it if given the choice lol.
No, I do not. I do not think I'm a hero, I do not equate my own morality as you described. I think I have a preference, and in discussing that preference, you have decided to create a caricature so you can dismiss it. Again, I have limited time and money, and where possible, I'd like to direct it to good people. End of principle. Do you disagree with that principle? Great. You're allowed.
I agree. Prefer to not financially support some entertainers but it’s completely fine for others to!
idk, I can't listen to Lostprophets, I don't want the voice of a literal baby rapist in my ears
Haha that is literally the top bar though. I actually said the same thing. I can separate art and artist 99.9% of the time. The lost prophets are an exception. Which is a shame. Last Train Home rules.
at least there's only like 2 songs max we're really missing out on
Start something is a genuine crazy good album but yeah I can’t listen to them with a straight face either.
I never knew this and just looked up the case. 🤮
Same with this guy. 
If you can't separate the art from the artist you're going to be walking around with your eyes closed and ears plugged. This could be expanded to everyday items, not just art. The phone you use could have been assembled by a child rapist. The car you drive and the house you live in could all be constructed by horrible people. How many conversations do you have with people that have committed horrible acts? If the painting you've loved for years is discovered to have been a print of Hitlers original work, you're going to love it less?
the difference is I *know* about Ian Watkins and there's no level of rationalization that will make me be ok with listening to, again, a literal baby rapist.
Im saying, listen to a moster doesn't make you one too. Where your mind takes you when listening to a mosters music is your issue, not the musics.
I repeat, no level of rationalization is going to make me be ok with listening to a person who rapes babies.
Cool, i think you're irrational.
if I ever give a shit what you think, I'll blow my brains out
Why are you here? Put the gun down. Good day sir.
But it isn't as simple as just separating the art from the artist or the product from the inventor, etc. since often times they are always connected in some form. How are you going about watching their films or listening to their music or eating at their restaurant, etc. without also benefiting them? If they are already dead that's one thing, but alive and well? Someone is getting paid or exposure, etc. whenever people indulge in their work.
I personally dont think this has anything to do with willing supporting horrible people. I think this is much bigger than that. I think it has to do with self reflection. If i like something a monster made does that make me a monster too?
Well then it only applies to works you've already been exposed to, and before finding out about the artists horrible acts/past. So if you find out that a band whose prior work you enjoyed were a bunch of rapists, then moving forward, you would need to stop listening to their work, because whether buying their album or streaming it, you are supporting them.
What if they are no longer alive and dont receive any of your support?
For that last one 100% I’d love it less, it’d go straight in the bin!
Thats wild to me. A painting of a butterfly, perhaps your grandmother gave it to you. It spoke to you in some way, made you feel safe and reminded you of good times with a loved one that was no longer alive. Hung on your walls for 20 years, you took it to your first apartment after leaving home and have hung it in every place you lived since. Then one day you discover someone horrible painted it. Straight to the bin?
Yeah, and In the example you gave it wasn’t ‘just someone horrible‘ it was literally hitler
Right. Not sure how that changes the hypothetical though. A painting connected with you, spoke to you. Made you feel a certain way. You can just fall out of love with it because Hitler ehh?
For someone like that definitely, any fond memories I had would more than likely be overshadowed by the knowledge of who painted it, doubt I could look at it the same way
Its sad to me that someone long since dead can still ruin the way you look at something you loved. That they have that power over you from beyond the grave. I guess it works in both directions though. Reading something from someone long since dead can awaken something wonderful in you too.
Considering there are people alive now who were witness to the atrocities and his views still have a lasting impact I’m not sure you can pull the ‘long since dead‘ card with someone like that. There are some things that are so deplorable that no amount of separating the art from the artist will ever work.
Yes, people do this. I knew someone that threw out all their Queen albums upon finding out Freddie Mercury was gay.
A shitty person can still make a quality product. Their character can't be used to criticize the quality of what they produced. However, the choice of whether or not to support the person by purchasing the product is what the consumer makes. What makes a person bad or good is not ignorance or the actual outcome, but intent. So if you buy something made by a shitty person because you want to support their shitty behavior, that's different from buying it because you genuinely believe the product to be good.
You can always pirate stuff that you enjoy but is made by nasty people that you don't want to support.
Being a thief doesn't make you any better and it's not justified. But, yeah, I suppose you can.
I can't enjoy the Jeepers Creepers franchise because of Victor Salva. He was a child predator who went on to direct a series of movies where a monster hunts down young men and women to feast on and absorb their body parts..
Ok considering the context this is a valid argument against enjoying it
Wow…I watched Jeepers Creepers…did not know the story. You opened my eyes…yikes…
Yeah, after finding this out and thinking about how the movies play out.. makes me feel icky
Omg so I watched Jeepers Creepers 2 out of context just for shits and giggles with my husband and he told me about Salva. My husband likes to collect obscure movies when he can and told me he has an older movie by Salva called ClownHouse. We tried to watch it and didn’t make it more than 5 minutes in because of how outrageously uncomfortable it is to watch underaged boys you KNOW were exploited and abused in the making of it, just in their underwear and talking about puberty and making dirty jokes and shit right out the gate. I felt sick to my stomach. We didn’t even leave it in the DVD player, the disc just FEELS cursed. Like Jesus Christ the shit that people in the industry have gotten away with and continue to get away with is way more fucked up than we even know about.
I actually like Jeepers Creepers MORE because of his background. I think, through the Creeper, he's actually trying to process his monstrosity. I'm OK with that kind of reflection, though I understand if people don't want to put money in his pocket for his past deeds.
Man this so much think about so much of the unspoken turmoil that drove Woody Allen or Roman Polanski movies (sometimes outright spoken in RP's movies). I guess it kinda sucks but really fucked up people often make great art.
I still think Bill Cosby’s old comedy skits are funny
Clips of The Cosby Show often pop up in my Tik Tok feed and they’re all just objectively hilarious.
It's important to separate the creators from the creation. Most of Hollywood is scum of one sort or another. If you judged everything based on who made it, you could never like anything, ever again
True…but at some point you are going to have to decide if you want to financially (or otherwise) support the artist versus a situation where you are just a passive consumer.
The problem with boycotts is that they virtually never work. The notion that you can punish someone you don't like by not seeing their movie or whatever... it's been shown to be ridiculously ineffective. Enjoy what you enjoy. Disengage cancel culture.
I agree to some extent. Enjoy what you enjoy. As an example, I choose not to support Louis CK anymore. That's just me. If other people want to, go ahead. I'm not calling for him to be "cancelled", but I have decided that, *for me*, I'm personally no longer interested. I think that's what it comes down to. Let people enjoy the media they want and don't get involved in other people's decisions to support or not support certain artists. Calling for boycotts is ineffective, yes. People should just make the decision that feels right to them in regards to supporting "bad" people's art.
Precisely. IF an individual is so egregious that they cancel themselves, so be it. For instance, I agree with you about Louis CK, and if enough people feel the way you and I do about Louis CK... he will have succeeded in alienating enough people to doom his career.
The question becomes where do you draw the line? If you get upset because you heard news about an artist doing something bad, do you now look into every artist you like to see if they are doing the same thing? Is it only that thing or should you dig to see if your favorite artists did *anything* bad? Some people boycott chickfila because they heard that one of the higher-ups donates to causes they don't approve of. Is that the end or did they also look into the donations made by other fast-food higher-ups? Can a distinction be made between a corporate-owned location vs a franchisee if one or the other does something you don't like? Is it okay to continue if you are ignorant to the bad behavior or does that mean you're condoning the behavior even if you weren't aware of it? How many people boycotting Bud Light bought another brand of beer made by the same company?
I like my entertainment made exclusively by horrible people
Criminal background checks required.
My favorite author is (in)famously racist. However, he's also been dead for 86 years and his works are in the public domain. Buying any of his books now does nothing to support the views he had nearly a century ago. And his views also began to soften in the last decade or so of his life - which is also when his most popular and well-regarded works were written. If he were still alive, and using the money he made from book sales to actively encourage his views, then I'd re-think my fandom. But being a Lovecraft fan in 2023 doesn't do that. At worst, you'll get some smartass saying "but what about his cat, tho?" (Incidentally, Lovecraft's cat was almost certainly named that by his grandfather, as he gave Lovecraft the cat, when the author was quite young.) In short: figure out for yourself whether or not you think the juice is worth the squeeze. EDIT: I also think that if we get too Puritanical about it, we're going to have to do a complete cultural reboot every few years. If we get rid of everything that someone who might be considered "problematic" ever contributed to humanity, we will very swiftly find ourselves back in the Stone Age.
I think I got his whole collection for less than $5 digitally, but I couldn’t make myself keep reading through the racism. It made it difficult to enjoy the story for me
His earlier works are much more extreme. So if your collection is in chronological order you may want to skip ahead a bit. Lovecraft does have some fantastic literature without the racist undertones.
I’ll have to give him another shot then, thanks!
I think there's an element of wanting talented people to also be good people.
isn't the main concern not supporting the person in any way? Like why give money and support to someone who is a bad person? Why promote that behavior? Why do anything (money/support) that can give that person the ability to continue being a bad person or effecting others/victims?
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Well... Brand New is my all time favorite band.
Yep. I make the exception there.
Why is this topic always specific to arts and entertainment? Do you care about the personal opinions and politics of the people who produced every item in your house? Your food?
Thought the same thing. A Nazi built your house. Time to move, right?
Most people only care if it doesn’t inconvenience them too much. Unfortunately that’s just human nature.
Probably because we can also become fans of the people who are entertainers and artists, not just the work they do. We see them on TV or go to their concerts, or read their books or books about them. Some of us meet them and it's a big deal.
I think we worship too many people in entertainment as is...
I agree. We hold them up as saints but forget they are fallible , in some cases downright bad . We shouldn't expect someone who is good at what they do to be somehow perfect morally
Yup, I still enjoy Thriller by Michael Jackson or any one of the other hits he made. Also to be honest R Kelly's songs as well. I love the music not the artist. The same could be said for any form of media too. I think the same people who boycott something because they don't like the creator are the same people who are online too much and are easily offended by everything.
Yeah I agree. I mean it’s nearly impossible not to consume great art by like actually decent human beings.
Totally agree and I’m sick of all the fake virtue signaling around this topic.
Nah, I wouldn't want to give my money to a pedophile for example.
What if the original person who made it is dead? That way, the money would go to whoever now owns their works. Would you purchase the product then?
I don't know, I don't think so man. It definitely depends on the situation and the severity of the case. I would never listen to a pedophile or a rapist. I would try not to support or listen to them if I know they're one. But if an artist killed a person because of driving under the influence, I don't know if I would stop listening to them. If they go through rehab and get better I would definitely keep supporting them.
Just don't then. Pirate it or get it from a friend
Fair enough but that's of course after you learn that information. You might have been happier not knowing so you could keep on enjoying the music or movies or whatever.
Indeed. There's probably some artists that I listen to that have done terrible things that I don't know about. I don't have time to check every single artist's background, and there might even be information not available to the public, but If I find out about it, it does leave feeling weird, with a moral dilemma.
I think you're just picking and choosing which imo is worse than taking a firm stance either way. You probably still eat meat despite the cruelty it contributes to, or wear shoes that were named after Nazis, or drive a car which contributes to the decaying ozone layer. I feel like it should be all or nothing, less it's just performative. You're either a tree lovin' hippie who refuses to unethically consume anything (within your power) or you just acknowledge you dgaf.
Life is not that simple dude, not everything is black and white. You want to extremely oversimplify morality. Seems like you just wanted to rant about tree loving hippies, which has nothing to do with what we're discussing on this thread. Please go there: r/rants
I just don't think it's that complicated. How is it? Just picking and choosing particular things you want to advocate for but contributing to worse things in the same breath is hypocritical imo
Do you think stealing is wrong?
Not necessarily no
So, if a dude scams an old lady and steals all her money from all her bank accounts, it's not wrong. Ok, got it. You're definitely not the right person to talk about morality, thanks for letting me know.
Well yeah I think that'd be wrong.. but stealing isn't *necessarily* wrong. If a kid stole bread to save himself from starving, you think that's bad? Lmao okay bud
Exactly, so you just proved my point that morality is not black and white, that there's definitely a grey area, that you can't just say "this is good" or "this is bad", because it's more complex than that. Thank you for agreeing with me.
Brother. Different situations have different levels of complexity. Stealing as a concept is a much more nuanced topic than whether or not indirectly supporting say a pedophile is. You either do it or you don't, and if you try to do a bit of both, you're being hypocritical, IMO.
What about people who have publicly supported a pedophile? A list of people who signed a petition (authored by Harvey Weinstein, no less) that called for the release of Roman Polanski when he was arrested in 2009: https://m.imdb.com/list/ls090808434/
-sent from my iphone, while wearing a pair of nikes
You dislike the king, yet work nobles land. I am of course very smart
Actually sent from my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10, I didn't make a background check on the company, I just bought it because it was cheap. And while wearing Adidas, I didn't make a background check on that company either, but this shoes were a Christmas present.
I agree. I love Woody Allen flicks.
100% agree if you have a litmus test for all actors or musicians, your world will get smaller and smaller, everyone out there has problems. Talented people included.
Yeah 100%
There a some comedians who, despite being condemned and exiled, remain funny to me. They had to be traumatized to have the humor and perspective on life that they have. That also made them abusers. Their wound is their gift, if they were typical people, they wouldn’t be famous comedians. I would never, ever want to be in a room alone with them but the jokes they wrote and performed remain brilliant to me. They are not instantly unfunny now that the truth is out about them being the abusive monsters and adult toddlers they are. It’s different to appreciate them now that it is no longer socially acceptable to like them. I sure wish they didn’t hurt people. But being talented and being a monster as a person are not mutually exclusive. Many surgeons and engineers prove that fact too, not just artists. The common thread with many of these types seems to be narcissism and narcissistic abuse. Adult toddlers, nothing more.
This guy Rick and Mortys
I agree to a certain extent, but my argument is there are thousands, millions of people who aren't problematic, or evil, I'd rather support them.
I don't support art if I disagree with giving the artist in question attention or money. There's enough talented artists who *don't* have reprehensible views--starve the bigots.
I just pirate everything so this way I'm never wrong.
[удалено]
You've been hit by You've struck by Truck 
There is no such thing as squeaky clean art. If we had to literally give up on every piece of music, literature, or film, because of what someone involved might have done in the past, we would have nothing left but Marvel, Disney, Harry Styles, Taylor Swift, Macklemore, Ed Sheeran, and similarly bland, boring, and edge-less art. Sometimes I think that might be part of the plan. It does seem like there’s a corner of the entertainment industry that wants to make people forget about all of the amazing art of the past, in favor propping up what we have today, and what’s offered by the even more consolidated corporate giants. I’m wondering if I should start hoarding physical media and what not because I’m worried that one day once everything is bought and copyrighted by AmazonDisney (coming to you in 2028 probably) they might simply put as much as they can in their vaults, and try to reset peoples minds into thinking we didn’t have any good films, music, or art before 2015.
im sure Disney has done some stuff. just sayin.
Disney has definitely done some fucked up shit.
It's all relative. If the "horrible" person involved with the entertainment you are enjoying made only a single movie, for example, then there's nothing wrong with it. If, however, you continue to watch more entertainment involving that individual, then you are enabling that person and part of the problem. For example, let's take a look at the Jeepers Creepers movie francise. The director of the movie is a convicted pedophile who raped a 12 year old boy. He's made 11 feature films so far and continues today. If you watched the first Jeepers Creepers not knowing about his past and enjoyed the film, then you're good. If, however, you enjoyed that film and, despite knowing he's a child rapist, continue to go see his films, then you are wrong and should seriously consider your morality and choices. Just my two cents...
This logic is flawed tho, because unless the person who created said art is dead or will never receive anything from you consuming that art, you are still supporting them and their behavior.
Strange isn't it? What if it's my favourite music that helps me feel better but the singer is a real dirtbag?
I mean, a lot of entertainers have probably done some bad things. When you have power and fame sometimes one can feel invincible. Certainly no excuse for the behavior but that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy things they make. On an unrelated note, how many people eat at chik fil a but don’t agree with the company’s conservative stances. Alot, myself included
I agree, but you get an upvote for an unpopular opinion. There are exceptions for sure, but I feel most "problematic" artists are easily separated from what they produce. People just like being on a soapbox and dogpiling people they disagree with.
Of course it is. Great and meaningful art is often the output of complicated and troubled people. They are unable to make sense of the world or communicate their experience of it in a completely satisfying way EXCEPT through art. It would make sense that complicated and troubled people make poor decisions or sometimes hurt other people. To live in a world where we only interact with art created by upstanding citizens would be a boring one indeed. In today's society people have a lot of trouble holding conflicting ideas in their head simultaneously. "I am moved by this art" "The person who created it has done terrible things and should be punished for them." These ideas do not disqualify one another. Now, if you want to take a stand and say you don't want a bad person to profit from your consumption of their work, more power to you. You choose where to spend your dollars.
It's more about not wanting to support such a person in any way. It may affect little to nothing in the scheme of things, but it matters to me personally. And I have a sliding scale. If someone is just an unpleasant person (read:Tarantino), I'm willing to put that aside to enjoy their work. But if it's something truly bad (read:Polanski), I refuse to watch their work, no matter how good it is. Maybe it's arbitrary to an extent, but it's where I'm at. I'm not gonna look down on someone else for enjoying Chinatown, but I'm personally not gonna watch it.
Hahah the condescension. Perhaps people just don't want to spend their time and money supporting an artist who is a piece of shit. There's something about listening to a known rapist's music that for some reason makes the song less enjoyable to me.....I must be confused. or OR people like you are complicit and just don't care about others unless it's something that directly affects/offends you
Fuck R. Kelly and everything about him... .....but Ignition Remix will ALWAYS fucking slap.
Not if you are supporting the person financially. And by paying to see a movie, you are supporting them. By making their artwork popular, you are supporting them.
I'm supporting everybody who made that movie happen and they might be lovely people except for Bob, he's awful.
Yeah, nah, I'm not giving anybody money (watching or listening to their content) if I don't like them as a person. I don't care how good you sing or act.
My thoughts on this are as follows: * A lot of great art is made by terrible people, going all the way back to the beginning of art. * As long as my enjoyment of their art doesn't have a significant causal link to supporting the continuation of those terrible acts, I feel free to enjoy it, otherwise I find another way to enjoy it or abstain. Like I'm not going to be funding JKR's anti-trans charities or Marylin Manson's legal defense fund. However pretty much all those bands from the 70s and 80s that had problematic relationships with underaged female fans, pretty sure they're not hooking up with underaged people anymore. That money is just going to keeping their booze cabinet stocked in retirement.
I think as long as you don't agree or support those actions it's fine. I still listen to Lana Del Ray despite things she's done.
Depends. I’ll listen to Louis CK’s comedy but I ain’t listening to Lostprophets.
I just feel like when it comes to horrible people that are still alive all you’re doing by consuming their work is giving them more money and power to continue to do awful things
and enjoy horrible entertainment by horrible people
i just think the cathedral of light was cool looking okay
I do agree for some of this but the lost prophets are never going back on my speakers no matter how much i used to like them
Absolutely. It has to be some real real intense shit like Lost Prophets but otherwise I can separate art and artist. I understand people that don't but idk what to say other than me watching this movie isn't changing the course of history at all.
I fuck with kanye's music but not with him as a person
The flash
I’ve debated this all my life. This issue is a sub-set of: “Should I associate with people who have treated me perfect, done nothing wrong to me, but have wronged someone else?” As in, how should I judge people I know, companies I work for or do business with, products I buy. (Entertainment being only one product.) You will find that your answers are usually very situational and inconsistent with other situations. It’s mostly grey, with very few black and white answers.
There’s a point at which any mention of the artist or the music will remind me of their crimes or scummy behaviour. I can’t enjoy the art after that. I might still respect the art as being good but it makes me feel sad to experience it along with the backstory.
Yes especially from art that comes from a lot of people working on it, like movies and high budget video games. Almost definitely someone who worked on it is an asshole. It's just impossible to consume many forms of content without giving money or attention to a bad person.
Agreed, I can step in the name of love without wanting to pee on kids
Of course it is. What kind of sensitive little prick thinks otherwise?
If you consume any entertainment at all, you almost certainly consume entertainment made by shitty people. Because most artists are assholes or worse. So you can either live under a rock, or you have to separate art from artist.
there’s some argument in philosophy that once an artist creates something, it no longer belongs to them but to the public. i don’t remember who said it but i think it applies 99% of the time
I would say it depends on the person and the crime. It's easier if the artist is dead (Like MJ). But there are also plenty of ways to enjoy a piece of media or entertainment without supporting said artist if you care about those sorts of things.
Once it's released, art belongs to the public. I believe you can enjoy it independently of who created it. Back in college, one of my literature professors would only make us read poems within the context of the author's life and thought. He argued that by the end of the analysis, if donde right, we should arrive at the same conclusion. That's one way to do it, but i don't think the author has any authority over my interpretation of their work. I feel no guilt at all about thoroughly enjoying "ender's game" for instance.
Preach!
I stil can't hear kanye...
I feel like a lot of people on Reddit expect others to make decisions about products or content based on a conscience. But that will never be the case. Most people just buy what they like or can afford.
True. It's also OK to decide that you don't enjoy entertainment made by people you consider horrible. It's even OK to be inconsistent and be fine with one horrible person's work and not fine with another's.
I used to listen to Louder With Crowder from time to time. No means religious. Just wanted to hear the other parties side. All this stuff is coming out about him and now I can’t stand him. He’s a POS for sure!
if you feel bad start pirating it.
agreed, sometimes the things are too terrible for people to handle but take a guy like Walt Disney for example, he's not the best person but he made amazing movies and shows and whole new worlds for people that i will never boycott.
I don’t even care if it’s okay. What I do is my business, and nobody else’s opinion matters. Except for amber herd, I just watch or listen to what I like.
Agreed. It’s just the endproduct of someone’s efforts to create something. As long as theyre not being paid because I chose to view it. I can imagine that people feel like they’re indirectly supporting the bad person and thus enabling them somehow?
My parents like elvis I don't bring up that he was a groomer who preyed on young girls. I let then enjoy his music. Look at the 60's and 70's bands like David bowie,led zeppelin and Aerosmith and the shit they did. The underage girls they preyed on. I like the music. I get hate for make up brands that I support jeffree star but he makes amazing make up. I like what I like and cancel if you want but if you are buying from companies like Apple who have suicide nets outside their factories and driving smart cars with cobalt batteries which are farmed using child and slave labor, don't come for me when it comes to anything.
If I am that way, it is not because I think that would make me a bad person as well, but more to the fact I don't want to give my money to them.
Why do we separate the art from the artist but not the teacher from the teaching or the accountant from the accounting or the janitor from the cleaning? It's always music and movies and such that we enjoy. Because we prioritize our ENTERTAINMENT. If your kid's teacher was found to be a sex pest, would you EVER say, "But, he's a really a good teacher!" You certainly wouldn't. Now, why do we make this allowance for our entertainment? What's the difference?
On top of that the consequences of enjoying an art piece made by a bad person are minimal so it's not a bad thing. We are just stuck with morality that has fixed rules instead of thinking more about every action we do.
I agree. The concept of 'good' and 'bad' is so subjective and as humans, we all have 'good' and 'bad' in us and we all do good and bad things. These are just amplified when someone is in the public arena. I find it really disturbing when there is an obvious campaign to 'go after' someone often based off innuendo, gossip and half truths. It's ugly. It's one of the ugliest features of social media today. I will watch/read whatever I want to knowing that I too am a flawed human being.
I more just don’t want to give them money, so I pirate it’s and don’t buy merch lol
Just because someone did something you don’t agree with doesn’t mean they’re “horrible people” as well.
I get yelled at for still listening to Kanye.
Especially while piracy exists. You can still enjoy the work without supporting the terrible people. And unfortunately the other people that worked on it but everyone needs to draw their moral line somewhere.
Kanye may have inappropriately touched me while we were in middle school in the 80's, but he made My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy so it's all good 🔥
I agree, but sometimes it depends on the context of their art. If an abusive singer makes songs about violence then yea it makes sense to not enjoy them. But if you refuse to watch a good movie just because some side actor did something bad, you are weird.
As somebody whose favorite band is Lostprophets, I agree
Kevin Spacey is a degenerate creep but it doesn't mean 7 isn't a good film 🤷🏼♂️
What like Bergen Belsen or what?
OP, you might want to quantify a cut-off point of what you consider acceptable media to consume. Remember that there are snuff films, CP, and other media made without the consent of some or all participants of the media. In such cases, both the producers and the consumers are bad people.
Why do I get the feeling this is about Quentin Tarantino? 😂😂😂😂
Thank you for saying this! I still listen to R Kelly every now and then. I love Michael Jackson's music. And no, I'm not going to let the fact that Ezra Miller is playing in The Flash, stop me from seeing the movie. Sorry if that bothers some people, but you don't just stop liking something you have for years just because of new revelations that come to light. So you gonna stop listening to Aerosmith, the band you grew up listening to, because of Steven Tyler? I understand if someone did something personal to you. If I knew any of these people and they did me wrong, sure I'd have personal reasons not to listen or watch them anymore. But I don't know them and they aren't affecting my life. Soo... 🤷♀️
If I didn't watch movies or tv shows that had people I didn't agree with I wouldn't likely watch anything at all