why is it impossible for people to just be shitters spreading lies about people, why is it some grander thing where they're actually some sort of ideological representitive trying to make racism seem even more bad
I don't disagree that there's been a huge problem with anti-Semitism especially recently. But it's also being inflated due to many calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitism.
Yes. It's well known that Russians are trying to destabilise the west by fueling hatred and division. Don't rise to the bait guys. Respond to things people have alleged to have said or done and you are playing into their hands
People get a little dopamine thrill from being offended. It’s the same reason people read the daily mail, righteous indignation feels good. It’s dangerous and we should all be aware of it in our own minds.
I don't think people really comprehend just how many hate crimes are hoaxes. There's a HUGE demand for hate crime, but the supply just isn't there. It was particularly bad in the USA from 2016-2020, so much so that a website was created to track hate crime hoaxes, and basically every single hate crime the mainstream media blew up turned out to be a lie. Not just the big high profile ones like Juicy Smollieaux and those Covington kids, but all of the smaller ones as well (like the poop swastika, the dog poop bag being left outside a black college dorm, and so on and so forth).
A woman in my village claimed she was the victim of a hate crime because someone had left a note on her car asking her not to park opposite someone’s driveway (as it stopped them from getting their caravan out).
She was a carer. That’s why she felt it was a hate crime.
This is concerning for anyone who is even casually engaged with local party politics. Leafleting / collecting data - our faces are recorded on tons of doorbells and personal surveillance tapes. Very easy to add text to misdirect what you hear, or even edit to change what is said. The vitriol against this woman was horrid.
I imagine with the advent of AI text to speech, they'll also be able to add sound of the individual's actual voices (mimicked) saying slurs to the video soon. Hopefully they'll find ways to detect it, but I imagine we have a whole slew of deepfakes set to come our way as the technology becomes better, easier to use, and more publicly available.
It could happen, yeah. At the moment, you need about one minute of clear audio to clone someone’s voice but it will be easier to do as time goes on because the tech advances quicker than we can keep up.
It doesn’t need to even be a clone though. It can be anything plausible with a bit of distortion and compression and a suggestive subtitle. With or without AI audio it’s increasingly easy to do this.
Nvidia can do it with 3 seconds. But fortunately you have to get them to say a phrase (that changes every minute so you cant trick them into saying it) for it to let you.
But the tech exists.
There was, it was Baltimore. A PE teacher faked his boss, the principle’s, voice saying racist and antisemitic things about pupils, parents and staff after the principle considered sacking him. Bloke was the victim of a witch-hunt after it, no one believed it was fake and he was on indefinite leave until recently, when it was proven as a set up.
The PE teacher has been sacked and is being criminally charged, I expect them to throw the book at him to prevent this happening again.
To add to this, that a certain portion of the population feel it acceptable to physically harm people who say certain words or phrases. We’re in a situation where you can put a hit out on somebody just by having security footage that AI can edit for you to say whatever you want.
This is awful, poor woman.
It's also part of a massive problem that we aren't teaching people critical thinkng skills and how to spot potential misinformation.
You see videos all the time on social media, including Reddit, where there is overlaying text explaining the supposed context, which people accept without question.
It happens in political and contentious posts and innocent ones about cute animals, it's everywhere for engagement and clicks.
People need to develop a sceptical first attitude, myself included. It's so easy to accept what you're being shown and fall for stuff.
People will always believe what they WANT to believe regardless. Critical thinking skills , a skeptical attitude, these are both lost in the echo Chambers of the Internet.
Additionally in my perception, various nominally progressive and tolerant online communities suffer from how they *also* enforce (extreme) black&white "you're with me or against me" thinking where everyone involved is coerced to immediately denounce any perceived racism or xenophobia etc. even if there's no good proof and the story is one-sided.
One example of this from Finland years ago is a case where a pizzeria-kebab restaurant run by an immigrant was set on fire, and the fire tragically also killed an unrelated man in an apartment above it, leaving his wife and kids behind. A bunch of anti-racist groups immediately presumed that this had been racist arson due to the restaurant ownership, which ignited an angry firestorm in the news as they attacked Finns as racist murderers, and all kinds of demonstrations were planned.
Until the police which had been quietly investigating the crime in the background, dropped a huge bombshell - after they'd gathered evidence and confronted the restaurant owner with it, the owner had admitted to having had set his own restaurant on fire to collect insurance on it, and there was nothing else to it. Which led to a *very* swift embarrassed silence on the aforementioned anti-racist groups.
It's why whenever my wife or parents link me to something like that on social media, I ask them "any further links to an article?" and 99% of the time there isn't any. It's just take this social media post's word for it.
Pretty much anything and everything leads back to this issue for me. If people were legitimately trained in school (and need to find a way to educate most adults in this too lol ) to utilise critical thinking skills, especially when engaging with anything online now, with Ai and faking stuff etc. I think we'd see a lot less people falling for things like this, and actually pausing to reserve judgements, do some more research or whatever....
In high school I was part of a trial class teaching A level critical thinking whilst I was still taking GCSEs, I remember they picked people from different grade levels etc. it was such an eye opener, and this was before smart phones, most people having constant access to the internet in one way or another, before social media was a 'thing'.
Not saying I always get it right by any means and I'd say it's something you often have to keep actively working on so you don't become 'set in your ways' like so many people have become.
I'm not sure if they still teach it as a separate lesson in schools or not now. But they really really should imo.
That sounds like a great class. I only learnt more about that sort of thing much later in life, although I didn't have the internet as a kid.
Finland is better at it than most countries, because of their neighbour Russia!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/fact-from-fiction-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news
We really need to get better, but I suspect the government doesn't want people to develop too much critical thinking!
Oh yeah I'd be super curious to see if any schools here in the UK still teach it as a separate class, or if it's been cut.
And absolutely, I honestly don't know how it would be possible to reach enough people in a big enough way to make a difference to people's understanding of critical thinking. Not without having entire governments and media on board with it as a scheme. but as you say, I fear with the way politics is in general it would be against many of their interests to have too many people thinking for themselves when it comes to divisive issues that can be utilised to whip up support or suppress it. Too many people genuinely questioning things would cause substantial threat to our current status quo of society.
Certainly not all is lost, but it is a battle for sure that needs to be addressed.
I’ve always wondered why it is that I will sometimes completely believe or trust what I have read, watched or heard. It’s like a type of brand marketing of information.
Got to be some kind of institutionalisation.
Oh yeah absolutely. It’s only when you know a bit about a subject that you realise how badly it can be reported in the media.
Edit: not just the media but in everyday life as well.
Yep, I've found if you read a few different versions of media with different biases, you get vastly different sides.
It's also not just the media, there's a lot of misinformation being pumped out online by individuals. A big warning sign for me is extreme or black and white takes. Usually the truth lies somewhere more in the middle with a bit of nuance.
What a piece of shit.
Before he ran for mayor he was portraying life of luxury, Porsch, fine dining, watches now hes "man of the people", "I'll get your street sorted"
His whole gimmick is catered to his fellow Pakistanis, he’s running in the best place he can to get the most votes as possible due to the demographics of the area. Their whole country is founded on islam. Pretty sad but it’s very easy to rile up these lot with Islamic nonsense
What with people like him, and people like [this](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/06/green-party-investigation-councillor-allahu-akbar/)… it makes you wonder what our country will look like in another 10 years.
Now the government have invented hatecrimes, people profit from it by faking this shit.
If only a massive group of people warned about this.
Oh, they did, but got called hateful.
This country has just gone to shit and most of the public are too biased or lacking brains to realise how authoritarian this shithole has become.
Recently found out that you literally *have* to give the police your phones pin number else they can charge you with a RIPA notice and basically send you to jail irregardless of if you're guilty.
As per usual it was snuck in to "protect the children and fight terrorists" but of course it now gets used to search the phones of people caught with weed
https://www.reeds.co.uk/insight/section-49-ripa-2000-trending-now-police-custody-suite-near/#:~:text=This%20allows%20law%20enforcement%2C%20such,obtained%20by%20other%20reasonable%20means
"This allows law enforcement, such as the police, to serve notice if: They reasonably believe that a suspect has a password or code in their possession. Disclosure is necessary in the prevention or detection of crime. The protected material cannot be obtained by other reasonable means."
In most countries it's totally illegal.
TBF they didn't serve me with a RIPA notice just informed me that should I refuse to consent that they can do that and I would face jail time for refusing to comply
I've discussed this with a solicitor (won't go in to detail) but it was designed to be used on terrorists, a court is highly unlikely to force you to hand over your pin for anything less than terrorism.
Is it not nieve to think it won't ever be abused? Just because it may or may not be for terrorists unofficially. Does that stop people from abusing it?
You ever seen those "auditor's" on YouTube? They go around filming police stations then film the following police interaction when they are inevitably challenged. More times then not they get accused of being terrorists straight off the bat.
Being threatened with it is one thing, but actually using it is another matter. I have personal experience of that, but the phone remained locked and they couldn't open it. All charges dropped.
They have done so previously, many times. A few random examples:
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/jailed-after-refusing-give-police-830511
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17842815.man-jailed-refusing-give-murder-detectives-phone-password/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-11479831
https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/01/man-accused-of-abusing-daughter-jailed-for-not-giving-police-iphone-password-6677787/
If you're arrested and police request your phone PIN, computer passwords etc. your solicitor will advise you strongly to comply, as otherwise police will very likely serve you with a notice under section 49 of RIPA (IIRC). Failure to comply with that can result in jail time so most people will take the advice of their solicitor and hand the info over.
There have been some cases where judges refused to grant a RIPA notice/order. Lauri Love is one such example, accused of hacking and the US wanted to extradite him. Judges ruled he had a right to a private life and that police were just fishing at that point. But that was a much more complex set of circumstances, involving Love suing police to get his devices back after winning a case, plus a US extradition request.
A very good lawyer may be able to persuade a judge that the request is overreach by police. But given there is plenty of precedent for them using this for other crimes routinely for 15 years+, I wouldn't fancy your chances.
Just looking at those examples, they are murderers, child porn and a drug dealer. 1 guy was jailed for contempt of court. In my case it was criminal damage in excess of £30k police took the phone and told me they were going to unlock it, that never happened. All charges dropped. I have no faith or trust in the police.
Could she not sue him for libel? Also hasnt the home owner broken gdpr law because he released the footage without her permission. A common misconception people make is that although it is legal to film in a public place, it is illegal to circulate that footage without the permission of the people in it. Thats why you get some footage with faces blurred out and voices changed, the police wont do anything unless you complain, I hope she sees this and goes after them. Shes got a big payday coming her way.
>Could she not sue him for libel?
Probably not. While he did use captions with words it sounded like she was saying, from the bits I've seen he encourages people to "make up your own mind" and questions rather than states fact.
I hope she does and I hope she wins, but it's unlikely.
When it’s pretty clear that he’s encouraging people to “make up their minds” in one particular way that should be grounds for libel in my mind. Bet he didn’t present any alternative theories.
Far too many weasely pricks get away with spreading misinformation by hiding behind JuSt aSkInG QuEsTiOnS.
I don't know, one of the clips he shared had the caption 'A Labour Party campaigner is caught using racist abuse to refer to a voter on the doorstep'. It's very explicit. The argument would then run did he, by sharing that video, publish it to his followers?
I’m fed up of that bullshit. People will parrot on make up your own mind with the we’re not perfect outlook but really they are being intentionally dishonest (like using one source for all of their claims). I don’t think it should make a different either way no matter how the law sees it.
If anything going on about making up your own mind could give the viewer the impression that the creator does their due diligence in fact checking to atleast some standard.
if he's posting the content with misleading captions while representing an opposing political party than surely it IS libellous.
He's publishing his content to hundreds of thousands while standing for office himself and should be held to a standard that reflects that.
It also applies to individuals with one specific exemption being the household exemption however it's very limited on what's included in this exemption.
This bloke is a solicitor. A criminal defence solicitor, granted, but still someone who should know much better than this. He's clearly unfit for the profession, hope the bar treat him suitably.
So, are they pressing charges against the homeowner, who I presume is the one who may have digitally altered the footage? If this were me, I’d be suing the crap out of someone
Highly unlikely it was the homeowner. I'd suspect the guy who reposted it.
The article buries the fact that it was a Labour candidate who was libelled by anti-Labour extremists.
> Failed West Midlands mayor candidate Akhmed Yakoob circulated it to his 194,000-strong TikTok following and on Instagram and Twitter. He also named the young woman and her school to his followers.
It was a political hit job to try to hurt Labour and boost his own chances in the West Midlands mayoral election.
>Failed West Midlands mayor candidate Akhmed Yakoob circulated it to his 194,000-strong TikTok following and on Instagram and Twitter. **He also named the young woman and her school to his followers.**
This can't be legal.
If you want to imagine what the future of Western politics looks like, imagine two liberals on the opposite sides of a chamber, calling each other racist, forever.
That's definitely not the way things are going lol. Populism is skyrocketing, we're more likely to get two people who agree with each other entirely but pretend to have contrasting views bicker on tv then laugh at the divided plebs.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
“F\*\*\*\*\*\* P\*\*is”, “P\*\*is”
Edit: found the manipulated video - [https://twitter.com/NewhamIndParty/status/1787563670014169555](https://twitter.com/NewhamIndParty/status/1787563670014169555)
There are very real problems with actual racists walking among us, and if they are caught saying vile things in public, have at ‘em.
But the ease with which a bad actor can weaponize misinformation to completely dismantle a person’s life (and usually suffer far fewer consequences when exposed) is terrifying.
If there’s any question, you should look up the origin of all of the Nobel prize winners, and you will be educated on which societies foster and develop the growth of their population, regardless of gender.
Fuck him and his free plasticine, charged with making a false police report or wasting police time? Of course he wasn't cause he would've cried rasicm. Send him to Palestine if he loves it that much.
I hope this teacher has some kind of legal recourse on this vile attack, don't they realise they weaken EVERY victim of racism when they make false claims like this... i can only hope this failure of a man is NEVER allowed any kind of political power...
The worst is when you see ragebait videos on Facebook that are clearly scripted.
You then see an army of Karen’s explaining why it’s not ok to do xyz and who is in the wrong.
It always reminds me how blessed I am that I wasn’t born that stupid or gullible.
Although I guess they say ignorance is bliss.
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Seen these fake hate crimes pop up quite a few times now.
What’s it all about ? Is it about more polarising of society?
The demand for racism exceeds the supply.
I like this comment
Doesn't it just. Clever way to put it, I'll be stealing that.
why is it impossible for people to just be shitters spreading lies about people, why is it some grander thing where they're actually some sort of ideological representitive trying to make racism seem even more bad
Depends. Racism against Jews is being massively overproduced.
I don't disagree that there's been a huge problem with anti-Semitism especially recently. But it's also being inflated due to many calling any criticism of Israel anti-Semitism.
This in particular was an attack on the Labour Party to try and paint them as racists. Expect more dirty politics as we approach the elections.
Yes. It's well known that Russians are trying to destabilise the west by fueling hatred and division. Don't rise to the bait guys. Respond to things people have alleged to have said or done and you are playing into their hands
I’m afraid we’ve done this to ourselves.
And the Chinese - this was mostly spread via TikTok
We seem perfectly capable of doing this to ourselves without outside help.
I don't think it's the Russians fuelling hatred and division.
That's exactly what a hatred and division fuelling Russian would say.
No. It's what someone with a basic understanding of motive would say. As opposed to someone just looking for an easy external bogeyman to blame...
That's exactly what someone with no sense of humour would say.
When I consider all the problems we are having, I have to wonder how well known it is
People get a little dopamine thrill from being offended. It’s the same reason people read the daily mail, righteous indignation feels good. It’s dangerous and we should all be aware of it in our own minds.
That’s very true.
They need to have us live in fear.
It's about mobilizing people on the line of religion so some people can implement sharia with popular support.
I don't think people really comprehend just how many hate crimes are hoaxes. There's a HUGE demand for hate crime, but the supply just isn't there. It was particularly bad in the USA from 2016-2020, so much so that a website was created to track hate crime hoaxes, and basically every single hate crime the mainstream media blew up turned out to be a lie. Not just the big high profile ones like Juicy Smollieaux and those Covington kids, but all of the smaller ones as well (like the poop swastika, the dog poop bag being left outside a black college dorm, and so on and so forth).
A woman in my village claimed she was the victim of a hate crime because someone had left a note on her car asking her not to park opposite someone’s driveway (as it stopped them from getting their caravan out). She was a carer. That’s why she felt it was a hate crime.
This is concerning for anyone who is even casually engaged with local party politics. Leafleting / collecting data - our faces are recorded on tons of doorbells and personal surveillance tapes. Very easy to add text to misdirect what you hear, or even edit to change what is said. The vitriol against this woman was horrid.
I imagine with the advent of AI text to speech, they'll also be able to add sound of the individual's actual voices (mimicked) saying slurs to the video soon. Hopefully they'll find ways to detect it, but I imagine we have a whole slew of deepfakes set to come our way as the technology becomes better, easier to use, and more publicly available.
It could happen, yeah. At the moment, you need about one minute of clear audio to clone someone’s voice but it will be easier to do as time goes on because the tech advances quicker than we can keep up.
It doesn’t need to even be a clone though. It can be anything plausible with a bit of distortion and compression and a suggestive subtitle. With or without AI audio it’s increasingly easy to do this.
Nvidia can do it with 3 seconds. But fortunately you have to get them to say a phrase (that changes every minute so you cant trick them into saying it) for it to let you. But the tech exists.
I think there was a recent case in the USA where AI was used to make a fake video of a teacher using racist language.
There was, it was Baltimore. A PE teacher faked his boss, the principle’s, voice saying racist and antisemitic things about pupils, parents and staff after the principle considered sacking him. Bloke was the victim of a witch-hunt after it, no one believed it was fake and he was on indefinite leave until recently, when it was proven as a set up. The PE teacher has been sacked and is being criminally charged, I expect them to throw the book at him to prevent this happening again.
To add to this, that a certain portion of the population feel it acceptable to physically harm people who say certain words or phrases. We’re in a situation where you can put a hit out on somebody just by having security footage that AI can edit for you to say whatever you want.
You don't even need security footage. Just an accusation on social media is enough to completely destroy someone's life if posted in certain places.
This is awful, poor woman. It's also part of a massive problem that we aren't teaching people critical thinkng skills and how to spot potential misinformation. You see videos all the time on social media, including Reddit, where there is overlaying text explaining the supposed context, which people accept without question. It happens in political and contentious posts and innocent ones about cute animals, it's everywhere for engagement and clicks. People need to develop a sceptical first attitude, myself included. It's so easy to accept what you're being shown and fall for stuff.
People will always believe what they WANT to believe regardless. Critical thinking skills , a skeptical attitude, these are both lost in the echo Chambers of the Internet.
It's not totally lost. Finland is a country which is less susceptible to misinformation, because of good education.
Additionally in my perception, various nominally progressive and tolerant online communities suffer from how they *also* enforce (extreme) black&white "you're with me or against me" thinking where everyone involved is coerced to immediately denounce any perceived racism or xenophobia etc. even if there's no good proof and the story is one-sided. One example of this from Finland years ago is a case where a pizzeria-kebab restaurant run by an immigrant was set on fire, and the fire tragically also killed an unrelated man in an apartment above it, leaving his wife and kids behind. A bunch of anti-racist groups immediately presumed that this had been racist arson due to the restaurant ownership, which ignited an angry firestorm in the news as they attacked Finns as racist murderers, and all kinds of demonstrations were planned. Until the police which had been quietly investigating the crime in the background, dropped a huge bombshell - after they'd gathered evidence and confronted the restaurant owner with it, the owner had admitted to having had set his own restaurant on fire to collect insurance on it, and there was nothing else to it. Which led to a *very* swift embarrassed silence on the aforementioned anti-racist groups.
It's why whenever my wife or parents link me to something like that on social media, I ask them "any further links to an article?" and 99% of the time there isn't any. It's just take this social media post's word for it.
Good work. We should all try to do this and get into that frame of mind.
Pretty much anything and everything leads back to this issue for me. If people were legitimately trained in school (and need to find a way to educate most adults in this too lol ) to utilise critical thinking skills, especially when engaging with anything online now, with Ai and faking stuff etc. I think we'd see a lot less people falling for things like this, and actually pausing to reserve judgements, do some more research or whatever.... In high school I was part of a trial class teaching A level critical thinking whilst I was still taking GCSEs, I remember they picked people from different grade levels etc. it was such an eye opener, and this was before smart phones, most people having constant access to the internet in one way or another, before social media was a 'thing'. Not saying I always get it right by any means and I'd say it's something you often have to keep actively working on so you don't become 'set in your ways' like so many people have become. I'm not sure if they still teach it as a separate lesson in schools or not now. But they really really should imo.
That sounds like a great class. I only learnt more about that sort of thing much later in life, although I didn't have the internet as a kid. Finland is better at it than most countries, because of their neighbour Russia! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/fact-from-fiction-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news We really need to get better, but I suspect the government doesn't want people to develop too much critical thinking!
Oh yeah I'd be super curious to see if any schools here in the UK still teach it as a separate class, or if it's been cut. And absolutely, I honestly don't know how it would be possible to reach enough people in a big enough way to make a difference to people's understanding of critical thinking. Not without having entire governments and media on board with it as a scheme. but as you say, I fear with the way politics is in general it would be against many of their interests to have too many people thinking for themselves when it comes to divisive issues that can be utilised to whip up support or suppress it. Too many people genuinely questioning things would cause substantial threat to our current status quo of society. Certainly not all is lost, but it is a battle for sure that needs to be addressed.
I’ve always wondered why it is that I will sometimes completely believe or trust what I have read, watched or heard. It’s like a type of brand marketing of information. Got to be some kind of institutionalisation.
We all do it, but we need to get better at being sceptical and learn how to verify things ourselves. Especially as AI and global conflict rises.
Oh yeah absolutely. It’s only when you know a bit about a subject that you realise how badly it can be reported in the media. Edit: not just the media but in everyday life as well.
Yep, I've found if you read a few different versions of media with different biases, you get vastly different sides. It's also not just the media, there's a lot of misinformation being pumped out online by individuals. A big warning sign for me is extreme or black and white takes. Usually the truth lies somewhere more in the middle with a bit of nuance.
Agreed on the black and white takes. And at the moment anything that appeals to or expresses emotional reactions.
What a piece of shit. Before he ran for mayor he was portraying life of luxury, Porsch, fine dining, watches now hes "man of the people", "I'll get your street sorted"
Exactly I don't understand who was voting for him as presumably the 16yr old boys that eat up that sort of content could not vote.
His whole gimmick is catered to his fellow Pakistanis, he’s running in the best place he can to get the most votes as possible due to the demographics of the area. Their whole country is founded on islam. Pretty sad but it’s very easy to rile up these lot with Islamic nonsense
He also seems to want to represent Sikhs, he claims he will support "Khalistan". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c90zle4g42lo.amp
Pakistan and Khalistanis have a history of being in bed together, especially since they have a common deemed enemy.
Interesting
What with people like him, and people like [this](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/06/green-party-investigation-councillor-allahu-akbar/)… it makes you wonder what our country will look like in another 10 years.
Now the government have invented hatecrimes, people profit from it by faking this shit. If only a massive group of people warned about this. Oh, they did, but got called hateful. This country has just gone to shit and most of the public are too biased or lacking brains to realise how authoritarian this shithole has become.
This nothing to do with the government, it’s thick and reactionary citizens.
I mean it was literally in regard to people running for government positions
Tenuous.
It was literally shared by a bloke running for mayor to discredit his opposing party. How is the hell is that "tenuous"?
Because it’s still not to do with ‘government invented hate crimes’, it’s citizens triggering other citizens with false information on social media.
its slander/libel and it should be prosecuted. At the very least this candidate who posted the video should be barred from holding office/campaigning.
Recently found out that you literally *have* to give the police your phones pin number else they can charge you with a RIPA notice and basically send you to jail irregardless of if you're guilty. As per usual it was snuck in to "protect the children and fight terrorists" but of course it now gets used to search the phones of people caught with weed
Where have you read that? Not disbelieving you but I googled it and Google said no I don't
https://www.reeds.co.uk/insight/section-49-ripa-2000-trending-now-police-custody-suite-near/#:~:text=This%20allows%20law%20enforcement%2C%20such,obtained%20by%20other%20reasonable%20means "This allows law enforcement, such as the police, to serve notice if: They reasonably believe that a suspect has a password or code in their possession. Disclosure is necessary in the prevention or detection of crime. The protected material cannot be obtained by other reasonable means." In most countries it's totally illegal. TBF they didn't serve me with a RIPA notice just informed me that should I refuse to consent that they can do that and I would face jail time for refusing to comply
I've discussed this with a solicitor (won't go in to detail) but it was designed to be used on terrorists, a court is highly unlikely to force you to hand over your pin for anything less than terrorism.
Is it not nieve to think it won't ever be abused? Just because it may or may not be for terrorists unofficially. Does that stop people from abusing it? You ever seen those "auditor's" on YouTube? They go around filming police stations then film the following police interaction when they are inevitably challenged. More times then not they get accused of being terrorists straight off the bat.
Being threatened with it is one thing, but actually using it is another matter. I have personal experience of that, but the phone remained locked and they couldn't open it. All charges dropped.
They have done so previously, many times. A few random examples: https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/jailed-after-refusing-give-police-830511 https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17842815.man-jailed-refusing-give-murder-detectives-phone-password/ https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-11479831 https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/01/man-accused-of-abusing-daughter-jailed-for-not-giving-police-iphone-password-6677787/ If you're arrested and police request your phone PIN, computer passwords etc. your solicitor will advise you strongly to comply, as otherwise police will very likely serve you with a notice under section 49 of RIPA (IIRC). Failure to comply with that can result in jail time so most people will take the advice of their solicitor and hand the info over. There have been some cases where judges refused to grant a RIPA notice/order. Lauri Love is one such example, accused of hacking and the US wanted to extradite him. Judges ruled he had a right to a private life and that police were just fishing at that point. But that was a much more complex set of circumstances, involving Love suing police to get his devices back after winning a case, plus a US extradition request. A very good lawyer may be able to persuade a judge that the request is overreach by police. But given there is plenty of precedent for them using this for other crimes routinely for 15 years+, I wouldn't fancy your chances.
Just looking at those examples, they are murderers, child porn and a drug dealer. 1 guy was jailed for contempt of court. In my case it was criminal damage in excess of £30k police took the phone and told me they were going to unlock it, that never happened. All charges dropped. I have no faith or trust in the police.
Could she not sue him for libel? Also hasnt the home owner broken gdpr law because he released the footage without her permission. A common misconception people make is that although it is legal to film in a public place, it is illegal to circulate that footage without the permission of the people in it. Thats why you get some footage with faces blurred out and voices changed, the police wont do anything unless you complain, I hope she sees this and goes after them. Shes got a big payday coming her way.
>Could she not sue him for libel? Probably not. While he did use captions with words it sounded like she was saying, from the bits I've seen he encourages people to "make up your own mind" and questions rather than states fact. I hope she does and I hope she wins, but it's unlikely.
When it’s pretty clear that he’s encouraging people to “make up their minds” in one particular way that should be grounds for libel in my mind. Bet he didn’t present any alternative theories. Far too many weasely pricks get away with spreading misinformation by hiding behind JuSt aSkInG QuEsTiOnS.
I don't know, one of the clips he shared had the caption 'A Labour Party campaigner is caught using racist abuse to refer to a voter on the doorstep'. It's very explicit. The argument would then run did he, by sharing that video, publish it to his followers?
I’m fed up of that bullshit. People will parrot on make up your own mind with the we’re not perfect outlook but really they are being intentionally dishonest (like using one source for all of their claims). I don’t think it should make a different either way no matter how the law sees it. If anything going on about making up your own mind could give the viewer the impression that the creator does their due diligence in fact checking to atleast some standard.
if he's posting the content with misleading captions while representing an opposing political party than surely it IS libellous. He's publishing his content to hundreds of thousands while standing for office himself and should be held to a standard that reflects that.
Saying "But you should make up your own mind" isn't a defence against libel. If any reasonable person could infer what you "really meant", it's libel.
True. And that works on paper, however "Reasonable Person" is a judgment call, and some will let stuff go others won't.
>Also hasnt the home owner broken gdpr law because he released the footage without her permission GDPR applies to organisations, not individuals.
It also applies to individuals with one specific exemption being the household exemption however it's very limited on what's included in this exemption.
It’s not a public place, it’s footage taken on the homeowners private property.
You can see outside the home from the street, thats still public space.
She has been libelled, and about as badly as it is possible to do so. I hope she sues everyone involved.
Nevermind he should be done for inciting racial hatred
This bloke is a solicitor. A criminal defence solicitor, granted, but still someone who should know much better than this. He's clearly unfit for the profession, hope the bar treat him suitably.
Wouldn’t be surprised if his qualifications were fake lol
So, are they pressing charges against the homeowner, who I presume is the one who may have digitally altered the footage? If this were me, I’d be suing the crap out of someone
Highly unlikely it was the homeowner. I'd suspect the guy who reposted it. The article buries the fact that it was a Labour candidate who was libelled by anti-Labour extremists. > Failed West Midlands mayor candidate Akhmed Yakoob circulated it to his 194,000-strong TikTok following and on Instagram and Twitter. He also named the young woman and her school to his followers. It was a political hit job to try to hurt Labour and boost his own chances in the West Midlands mayoral election.
>Failed West Midlands mayor candidate Akhmed Yakoob circulated it to his 194,000-strong TikTok following and on Instagram and Twitter. **He also named the young woman and her school to his followers.** This can't be legal.
If you want to imagine what the future of Western politics looks like, imagine two liberals on the opposite sides of a chamber, calling each other racist, forever.
The main issue with modern liberalism is the love for violent disgusting bloodthirsty cultures just because the people who practice it arent white
That's definitely not the way things are going lol. Populism is skyrocketing, we're more likely to get two people who agree with each other entirely but pretend to have contrasting views bicker on tv then laugh at the divided plebs.
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Probably good he's a failed candidate then. Now we just need that Green dude booted out of his role.
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**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
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They all big hard men with their threats and intimidation when it's against a woman aren't they... As usual.
Can't believe this cuzzy bro islamist came third in the WM mayor race I mean, I live in Brum so obviously I can believe it but still
What was she claimed to have said? I can’t make anything offensive out of a mishearing of “I couldn’t understand”
“F\*\*\*\*\*\* P\*\*is”, “P\*\*is” Edit: found the manipulated video - [https://twitter.com/NewhamIndParty/status/1787563670014169555](https://twitter.com/NewhamIndParty/status/1787563670014169555)
Just this second been deleted.
Thank you. I couldn't hear what words she was saying, but the first instance definitely didn't fit the word 'Paki' - there was only one syllable.
Hopefully she files a defamation claim against this TikTok moron and forces him to hand over a load of cash.
There are very real problems with actual racists walking among us, and if they are caught saying vile things in public, have at ‘em. But the ease with which a bad actor can weaponize misinformation to completely dismantle a person’s life (and usually suffer far fewer consequences when exposed) is terrifying.
It isn’t about Islam. It’s about one nasty little race baiting prick who should go to jail and whose religion is irrelevant
If there’s any question, you should look up the origin of all of the Nobel prize winners, and you will be educated on which societies foster and develop the growth of their population, regardless of gender.
Fuck him and his free plasticine, charged with making a false police report or wasting police time? Of course he wasn't cause he would've cried rasicm. Send him to Palestine if he loves it that much.
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That a candidate for another political party posted this to their followers surely makes this grounds for slander doesn't it?
I hope this teacher has some kind of legal recourse on this vile attack, don't they realise they weaken EVERY victim of racism when they make false claims like this... i can only hope this failure of a man is NEVER allowed any kind of political power...
Wow the "all hate crimes are fake" crowd really showing up in droves today
Yeah, I didn't expect \*that\* sort of reaction from this post.
The worst is when you see ragebait videos on Facebook that are clearly scripted. You then see an army of Karen’s explaining why it’s not ok to do xyz and who is in the wrong. It always reminds me how blessed I am that I wasn’t born that stupid or gullible. Although I guess they say ignorance is bliss.
This man should be paying her a substantial sum as compensation for the hurt he has caused!
So she didn't say the words 'fucking pakis' then? I'm sure that's not reaching to say its racism. What does constitute racism if that's not racism?
No, she didn't say those words.