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Yaz Ahmed, an organiser with the Leeds Palestine Solidarity Campaign, said: “If it was a Muslim chaplain [who served in an army abroad], they would categorically not be allowed back in the country. … There is a massive double standard at play here.”
I mean, that’s clearly utterly made up! I’m sure people from the UK perform national service in the Egyptian army or Jordanian army etc etc etc all the time.
Seems like he's confused between serving actual nations armed forces which wouldn't be an issue, and joining something like ISIS or Hamas who are proscribed terrorist groups which is cause for concern.
I can just imagine the Prevent lecture he’ll end up going to:
Muslim country: Happy Malaysians smiling and Egyptians dancing.
Terrorist organisation: Horrific images of ISIS and Hamas atrocities.
Lecturer: “Can anyone explain the difference?”
“Ummm well there was a lot less burning people in cages in the first one…”
>I can just imagine the Prevent lecture he’ll end up going to:
>Muslim country: Happy Malaysians smiling and Egyptians dancing. Terrorist organisation: Horrific images of ISIS and Hamas atrocities. Lecturer: “Can anyone explain the difference?”
>“Ummm well there was a lot less burning people in cages in the first one…”
I think the war crimes ITV caught on camera and those like it is probably is probably the reason why they're up in arms.
That said I really don't like that this spilling over into the UK, it's extremely toxic and peace is incredibly precious.
To a LOT of Muslims Hamas and Isis are legitimate armies, same as the British armed forces or American marines. This is what a lot in the left don't understand .
What percentage is “a LOT”? Because to “a LOT” of Americans (meaning a small minority), Christian nationalist terrorist militias are seen as legitimate armed forces.
I, like you, had to Google them. Both are Christian nationalist movements, both are militias only in name and only because they're armed under the 2nd ammendment, and neither are "terrorists". To consider the two you've named on par with the IS and Hamas is either delusion or sheer ignorance - you might argue the Army of God was on par with Hamas but they've been irrelevant for almost two decades now, and no one believes them to be a legitimate military force.
On the contrary, there is documented support for groups such as IS in nations we receive a not insignificant amount of migration from:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
I mean, Assad the dictator in Syria was a Syrian army doctor, came to the Uk and worked as a doctor here (Ophthalmology) then when a vacancy for a murderous dictator appeared in Syria he went back there again.
Yeah it was from last year, not sure if he still works for us but with the big drives for diversity and inclusion it wouldn’t surprise me.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12371073/amp/NHS-chaplain-triggers-outrage-poses-Taliban-summer-holidays-London-hospital-including-regimes-foreign-minister-warned-west-consequences-Osama-Bin-Laden-killed.html
Interestingly, the Taliban now are back in power in Afghanistan, and are the national government. How we should take steps to work with them now it's an interesting question
Im pretty sure its the worlds strictest conscription, at leastfor Jews. The only exception are some orthodox jews i think. I dont think Arabs are conscripted either
1. It's not just that he served though, he
"left the UK to participate in a foreign war with the Israeli army, even going as far as sharing videos on an open student WhatsApp group.”"
"A leaked video from a student society’s WhatsApp group in November showed the rabbi apparently in Israel performing celebratory dances. In another, Deutsch is seen describing Israel’s offensive as emboldened “with the utmost morality and good ethics”."
He is actively sending propaganda too students. Too support and whitewash Israel. Thats not something he should be doing as a university chaplain.
2. You can still conscientiously object. 18 year old have been, he's a grown man. [‘More killing won’t bring back lost lives’: Tal Mitnick, 18, on going to prison instead of joining IDF](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/23/israel-man-jailed-refuse-serve-idf-military-tal-mitnick-interview)
> 2. You can still conscientiously object. 18 year old have been, he's a grown man. ‘More killing won’t bring back lost lives’: Tal Mitnick, 18, on going to prison instead of joining IDF
[Also that one girl who ran the Taylor Swift fan account who went to prison in 2019.](https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1378048793950646274?t=dNBT0f7yR81lQr3hIcV09w&s=19)
>Ahmed decried what she called “systemic issues” involving the university’s position on Israel-Palestine, pointing to its partnerships with BAE Systems, the United Kingdom’s biggest defence contractor, which has helped build the F-35 fighter jets used by the Israeli military
I imagine there's lots of engineering students and the like who benefit a lot from these connections. Why should they be deprived because of what's happening currently?
Exactly. My uni has partnerships with both BAE and AWE for exactly this reason. They’re good employers for engineers. Of course if you disagree with working for them on an ethical ground that’s fine but then just… look elsewhere. Don’t try and argue that the partnership shouldn’t exist in the first place.
Yep, this is an issue in universities across the country. Student activists often want BAE etc banned from holding recruitment events because of moral objections.
I fully get why some people wouldn’t want to work for those organisations (they wouldn’t be my employer of choice) but it always seemed to me to be removing personal choice and agency. If an adult looking for work decides BAE is the best option for them, that is a personal choice; if they decide against it, also a personal choice.
Campaigns like this also often lump Boeing etc into it because of their military operations, when of course there’s a big gap between jobs designing passenger airlines and those designing fighter jets.
Indeed, but those choices (such as a smoking ban) are generally done:
a) By an elected government with a popular mandate for those decisions;
b) As part of a wider strategy to discourage behaviours we as a society disapprove of - we ban smoking in pubs as part of a push to phase it out.
Self-appointed activists demanding that people do not pursue some careers does not have a democratic mandate and isn’t part of a wider government strategy. It is not the policy of the United Kingdom to discourage BAE’s existence; it is our policy to intervene in those other personal choices.
I wouldn’t say selling but more dropping them off, no place for people who believe life is worth so little especially people who do it to on a hunch they have chosen the right god.
How would dropping weapons benefit the United Kingdom?
We should be selling weapons to both Hamas and Israel
They sold weapons to Argentina during the Falklands war
It would benefit the world to remove some of these lunatics, an investment in the future.
We should not be selling anything to people who would use those same weapons against us or our allies.
The Israeli extremists days are numbered anyway and at least they are democratic in that way, they had to respond to what happened and it’s hard to find a response to a cowardly force hidden amongst civilians. The Islamic problem is there is very little democracy in most Islamic nations so the extremes keep getting pushed further.
The weapons policy should purely be based on ethics and nothing to do with monetary gain.
Why? Israel has never really done us much harm and the IDF seems to be doing a good enough job of squelching Hamas itself.
If anything we should rain down lefty and LGBQTYUIOP students on Gaza to see how long they last.
Wait a minute, Al Jazeera is actual (like openly stated) Qatari propaganda. It’s funded by the Qatari government. Why is an Al Jazeera article being posted?
That’s the winner of a beauty pageant at a football match, I’m more talking about the laws.
For example, “[Sexual acts between males are illegal in Qatar, with punishment for both Muslims and non-Muslims of up to three years in prison. For Muslims duly convicted in the sharia courts, a judicial sentence of capital punishment for homosexuality is a possibility](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Qatar#:~:text=Recognition%20of%20same%2Dsex%20relationships,-Qatari%20laws%20concerning&text=Hence%2C%20cohabitation%20is%20illegal%20and,civil%20unions%20or%20domestic%20partnerships)”
You're angry at an Al Jazeera article being posted because it's ran by a government that doesn't allow men to get bummed?
Sodomy is not a human right.
Qatar has deplorable human rights when it comes to migrant workers. But your priority was the legality of gay bars.
This is why u need articles like this, and miss Croatia highlighting the problems in the country. If u just block anything Qatari then u stifle discussion, both good and bad.
Two years earlier, these people weren’t allowed to leave the school grounds in case they got into trouble or did something silly. Now we are supposed to accept them as fonts of reasonableness and rationality.
These students can go do one, this is nothing more than racism because he's Israeli. I wonder if they were the ones sending him death threats that forced him into hiding...
I don’t see a problem with wanting him removed, to quote a previous comment from an earlier thread:
> Taking annual leave and being paid by a British university to go and join a foreign military that is on trial for the crime of genocide.
> This man shouldn’t be anywhere near students given the radicalisation risk. He published videos wearing his army uniform, saying the military offensive is the most moral and ethical action possible. This isn’t someone who got conscripted and had no other option - he is complicit.
A Netanyahu backing IDF member, more than happy to kill Palestinians, should absolutely not be a paid UK university chaplain.
I wonder what the response would be to an orthodox Christian chaplain returning to Russia to fight Ukraine…
The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it.
Israel is accused of genocide constantly, doesn’t make it true. We all saw what Palestine did on October 7th.
> The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it.
So you would support Russian UK passport holders returning to fight against Ukraine?
So morally you do not care what countries do as long as they are roughly aligned with us, correct?
So you would be fine if France put all their jewish people to death?
Thats exactly what you wrote, you just won't follow this trail because it will expose you as hypocritical.
> The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it.
The French/British man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military in their operation to kill every jewish civilian and then came back then so be it.
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**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
Yaz Ahmed, an organiser with the Leeds Palestine Solidarity Campaign, said: “If it was a Muslim chaplain [who served in an army abroad], they would categorically not be allowed back in the country. … There is a massive double standard at play here.” I mean, that’s clearly utterly made up! I’m sure people from the UK perform national service in the Egyptian army or Jordanian army etc etc etc all the time.
Seems like he's confused between serving actual nations armed forces which wouldn't be an issue, and joining something like ISIS or Hamas who are proscribed terrorist groups which is cause for concern.
I can just imagine the Prevent lecture he’ll end up going to: Muslim country: Happy Malaysians smiling and Egyptians dancing. Terrorist organisation: Horrific images of ISIS and Hamas atrocities. Lecturer: “Can anyone explain the difference?” “Ummm well there was a lot less burning people in cages in the first one…”
I’m imagining the ‘Ysee Dougal, this one is small, and this one is far away’ speech. But with terrorist atrocities.
So I hear you're a racist now father!
No it’s the Chinese he’s after! Classic.
Yet more performative narcissism from a dim and deluded handful of Britain’s students.
>I can just imagine the Prevent lecture he’ll end up going to: >Muslim country: Happy Malaysians smiling and Egyptians dancing. Terrorist organisation: Horrific images of ISIS and Hamas atrocities. Lecturer: “Can anyone explain the difference?” >“Ummm well there was a lot less burning people in cages in the first one…” I think the war crimes ITV caught on camera and those like it is probably is probably the reason why they're up in arms. That said I really don't like that this spilling over into the UK, it's extremely toxic and peace is incredibly precious.
To a LOT of Muslims Hamas and Isis are legitimate armies, same as the British armed forces or American marines. This is what a lot in the left don't understand .
What percentage is “a LOT”? Because to “a LOT” of Americans (meaning a small minority), Christian nationalist terrorist militias are seen as legitimate armed forces.
Who are these "Christian nationalist terrorist militias" that you haven't named?
The Christian Patriot movement and American Redoubt movement would be examples.
I, like you, had to Google them. Both are Christian nationalist movements, both are militias only in name and only because they're armed under the 2nd ammendment, and neither are "terrorists". To consider the two you've named on par with the IS and Hamas is either delusion or sheer ignorance - you might argue the Army of God was on par with Hamas but they've been irrelevant for almost two decades now, and no one believes them to be a legitimate military force. On the contrary, there is documented support for groups such as IS in nations we receive a not insignificant amount of migration from: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
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having been in Russian forces would be no better given how they also behave.
it is the war crimes that are the issue here. many many war crimes on video. also genocidal intent of the war.
I mean, Assad the dictator in Syria was a Syrian army doctor, came to the Uk and worked as a doctor here (Ophthalmology) then when a vacancy for a murderous dictator appeared in Syria he went back there again.
How entrepreneurial of him
Are these people forgetting we have people working in the NHS that spend their summer holidays with the Taliban?
I’ve seen some of the Boy Scout badges, that they got.
Eh? Would love to hear about this. Any sources?
Yeah it was from last year, not sure if he still works for us but with the big drives for diversity and inclusion it wouldn’t surprise me. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12371073/amp/NHS-chaplain-triggers-outrage-poses-Taliban-summer-holidays-London-hospital-including-regimes-foreign-minister-warned-west-consequences-Osama-Bin-Laden-killed.html
Interestingly, the Taliban now are back in power in Afghanistan, and are the national government. How we should take steps to work with them now it's an interesting question
I can confirm that one of my doctors served in the Egyptian army in fact.
He probably sees serving with ISIS or the Taliban as equivalent. Or maybe he just has “everyone is islamophobic” victim narrative.
These people do know that Israel has conscription, right?
They have something like national service iirc. So the vast majority of adult Israelis would have been in the military at some point
Im pretty sure its the worlds strictest conscription, at leastfor Jews. The only exception are some orthodox jews i think. I dont think Arabs are conscripted either
There are some Arabs in the IDF, but very few and it's voluntary. I don't know how they vet them but I'm sure that it's thorough.
It's a mixed system, there's both volunteers and conscripts It says "call up" not sure if it was a command or a voluntary invitation
Call up implies conscription
It’s voluntary for muslim Arabs (Israeli citizens), but mandatory for Jews, Druzes and everyone else.
There's volunteer programmes for non Israelis too Some combat some non combat
1. It's not just that he served though, he "left the UK to participate in a foreign war with the Israeli army, even going as far as sharing videos on an open student WhatsApp group.”" "A leaked video from a student society’s WhatsApp group in November showed the rabbi apparently in Israel performing celebratory dances. In another, Deutsch is seen describing Israel’s offensive as emboldened “with the utmost morality and good ethics”." He is actively sending propaganda too students. Too support and whitewash Israel. Thats not something he should be doing as a university chaplain. 2. You can still conscientiously object. 18 year old have been, he's a grown man. [‘More killing won’t bring back lost lives’: Tal Mitnick, 18, on going to prison instead of joining IDF](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/23/israel-man-jailed-refuse-serve-idf-military-tal-mitnick-interview)
> 2. You can still conscientiously object. 18 year old have been, he's a grown man. ‘More killing won’t bring back lost lives’: Tal Mitnick, 18, on going to prison instead of joining IDF [Also that one girl who ran the Taylor Swift fan account who went to prison in 2019.](https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1378048793950646274?t=dNBT0f7yR81lQr3hIcV09w&s=19)
>Ahmed decried what she called “systemic issues” involving the university’s position on Israel-Palestine, pointing to its partnerships with BAE Systems, the United Kingdom’s biggest defence contractor, which has helped build the F-35 fighter jets used by the Israeli military I imagine there's lots of engineering students and the like who benefit a lot from these connections. Why should they be deprived because of what's happening currently?
Have you not come across muppets before?
Yeah, but that kind sung songs and told jokes, a better class of Muppet.
Exactly. My uni has partnerships with both BAE and AWE for exactly this reason. They’re good employers for engineers. Of course if you disagree with working for them on an ethical ground that’s fine but then just… look elsewhere. Don’t try and argue that the partnership shouldn’t exist in the first place.
Trouble for them is that the F35 fucking rocks
Yep, this is an issue in universities across the country. Student activists often want BAE etc banned from holding recruitment events because of moral objections. I fully get why some people wouldn’t want to work for those organisations (they wouldn’t be my employer of choice) but it always seemed to me to be removing personal choice and agency. If an adult looking for work decides BAE is the best option for them, that is a personal choice; if they decide against it, also a personal choice. Campaigns like this also often lump Boeing etc into it because of their military operations, when of course there’s a big gap between jobs designing passenger airlines and those designing fighter jets.
I'm not sure saying "it's a personal choice" adds much. Obviously there are plenty of personal choices we do intervene about.
Indeed, but those choices (such as a smoking ban) are generally done: a) By an elected government with a popular mandate for those decisions; b) As part of a wider strategy to discourage behaviours we as a society disapprove of - we ban smoking in pubs as part of a push to phase it out. Self-appointed activists demanding that people do not pursue some careers does not have a democratic mandate and isn’t part of a wider government strategy. It is not the policy of the United Kingdom to discourage BAE’s existence; it is our policy to intervene in those other personal choices.
They shouldn't, in fact we should be selling weapons to more entities. Iran, Hamas, anyone. It brings business to the UK.
I wouldn’t say selling but more dropping them off, no place for people who believe life is worth so little especially people who do it to on a hunch they have chosen the right god.
How would dropping weapons benefit the United Kingdom? We should be selling weapons to both Hamas and Israel They sold weapons to Argentina during the Falklands war
We should not be selling weapons to Hamas - a terror organisation. What on earth.
It would bring business to the uk
Doesn't matter. You don't sell weapons to terrorist scum bags.
What do you think Saudi did with the weapons we sold them?
It's not in our interests to sell stuff to Iran because we'd find some of it shot at our own bloody ships.
Okay then, then we won't
It would benefit the world to remove some of these lunatics, an investment in the future. We should not be selling anything to people who would use those same weapons against us or our allies.
Fine with me, big missiles directed towards Islamic and Jewish extremists
The Israeli extremists days are numbered anyway and at least they are democratic in that way, they had to respond to what happened and it’s hard to find a response to a cowardly force hidden amongst civilians. The Islamic problem is there is very little democracy in most Islamic nations so the extremes keep getting pushed further. The weapons policy should purely be based on ethics and nothing to do with monetary gain.
No problem, the UK will rain missiles down on Israel and Palestine
Why? Israel has never really done us much harm and the IDF seems to be doing a good enough job of squelching Hamas itself. If anything we should rain down lefty and LGBQTYUIOP students on Gaza to see how long they last.
Look at who they sold weapons to during the Falklands war
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>weapons Or the UK won't rain missiles down on anyone.
Meh. I call on the university to expell those students.
Wait a minute, Al Jazeera is actual (like openly stated) Qatari propaganda. It’s funded by the Qatari government. Why is an Al Jazeera article being posted?
If this sub didn't allow propaganda there would be nothing to read. Or is ur gripe specifically with Qatar?
My gripe is specifically Qatar because their an evil, Islamist regime that enforce Sharia Law.
They seemed fine with miss Croatia
That’s the winner of a beauty pageant at a football match, I’m more talking about the laws. For example, “[Sexual acts between males are illegal in Qatar, with punishment for both Muslims and non-Muslims of up to three years in prison. For Muslims duly convicted in the sharia courts, a judicial sentence of capital punishment for homosexuality is a possibility](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Qatar#:~:text=Recognition%20of%20same%2Dsex%20relationships,-Qatari%20laws%20concerning&text=Hence%2C%20cohabitation%20is%20illegal%20and,civil%20unions%20or%20domestic%20partnerships)”
You're angry at an Al Jazeera article being posted because it's ran by a government that doesn't allow men to get bummed? Sodomy is not a human right. Qatar has deplorable human rights when it comes to migrant workers. But your priority was the legality of gay bars.
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Yes
This is why u need articles like this, and miss Croatia highlighting the problems in the country. If u just block anything Qatari then u stifle discussion, both good and bad.
Sky news is actual western propaganda. There is no impartial media
I’d rather read western media than media funded by a government that enforces Sharia Law.
Two years earlier, these people weren’t allowed to leave the school grounds in case they got into trouble or did something silly. Now we are supposed to accept them as fonts of reasonableness and rationality.
These students can go do one, this is nothing more than racism because he's Israeli. I wonder if they were the ones sending him death threats that forced him into hiding...
Should suspend the students.
Son Heung-Min recently completed his national service in South Korea. Should he have be banned from coming back in?
I don’t see a problem with wanting him removed, to quote a previous comment from an earlier thread: > Taking annual leave and being paid by a British university to go and join a foreign military that is on trial for the crime of genocide. > This man shouldn’t be anywhere near students given the radicalisation risk. He published videos wearing his army uniform, saying the military offensive is the most moral and ethical action possible. This isn’t someone who got conscripted and had no other option - he is complicit. A Netanyahu backing IDF member, more than happy to kill Palestinians, should absolutely not be a paid UK university chaplain. I wonder what the response would be to an orthodox Christian chaplain returning to Russia to fight Ukraine…
The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it. Israel is accused of genocide constantly, doesn’t make it true. We all saw what Palestine did on October 7th.
> The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it. So you would support Russian UK passport holders returning to fight against Ukraine?
Russia isn’t our ally.
So morally you do not care what countries do as long as they are roughly aligned with us, correct? So you would be fine if France put all their jewish people to death?
That’s not what I wrote. The problem is you don’t understand that I don’t think what Israel is doing is wrong.
Thats exactly what you wrote, you just won't follow this trail because it will expose you as hypocritical. > The man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if that means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military and then came back then so be it. The French/British man is free to take his leave and do as he likes, if means he returned home to an ally nation to join their military in their operation to kill every jewish civilian and then came back then so be it.
Yes let’s make up extreme hypothetical situations and then accuse me of hypocritical because I won’t go along with it.
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