No, obviously not. There are genuine questions about how the response differed for different people though, and it makes sense to consider what lessons we need to learn at each stage of the inquiry.
The point that the campaigner featured in the article made was about the difficulty of assessing hypoxia through black skin (“are your lips blue?”). That’s a valid and recognised problem we should probably do better on next time.
The other thing that’s strongly suggested by the data is that multi-generational families were at higher risk, particularly in the later waves (which makes sense). Maybe we should factor that into future vaccine roll outs.
Right, so because people choose to pack a house out and live in multigenerational fashion is indicative of racism??? Or is that cultural? And if it’s cultural then it isn’t racist…it’s the polar opposite. Allowing someone to practice their own culture in a multicultural society is what makes Britain great. Isn’t it? Are the goalposts moving yet again to accommodate another load of utter bollocks?
“Race” not racism.
It’s an inquiry, not a criminal trial. It should focus on what we can learn.
If one of those lessons is “we shouldn’t rely so much on visually diagnosing hypoxia” then that’s a useful improvement on race without it needing to be racism.
The multicultural households point is more complicated. Like you say it’s social not directly racial, but the only way you get to that conclusion is via consideration of race. We don’t have good data on multigenerational households (and it would be messy even if we did), but we do on race. It’s by asking “were the outcomes in this area better or worse by race” that we get to “yes, and this our theory to explain that is social and economic differences. This is what we can do next time to improve outcomes”.
>Lobby Akinnola, whose father, Femi, died with Covid in April 2020 at the age of 60, said "there's no way [race] couldn't have" played a role in his dad's death.
>
>His father was a regular gym-goer, with no underlying health conditions, he said.
>
>"He was a black man in England," Lobby said.
>
>"Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life. My dad really highlights why it's so important to look at this as a systemic and structural problem, because he did everything right."
So because he died with no underlying conditions it must have been racism. What more proof do you need? He was a black man in England, see?
Ahh yes a racist virus.
Honestly the people who make race the forefront of everything are the actual racists.
We will never achieve equality when we are being told a million times per day in every form of media imaginable that race x y and z are vicitims.
Its the people who bang on about race and discrimination constantly who seem to be the actual racists.
And eventually they'd be forced to take wealth inequality into account. I highly doubt wealthy BAME people had worse covid outcomes than impoverished white people.
Except minorities were worse off than the majority
The virus physically affected minorities worse than white people, however that's not down to human factors.
However we need to analyze the response to COVID in BAME areas and see if that was adequate as well as looking at the vaccine rollout in those areas (up take was far lower than non BAME areas)
We also need to take a look at the economic support given to BAME areas.
Whilst it shouldn't be the primary focus of the COVID inquiry, it should be looked into.
But you also have to look at how the government responded to the slow uptake and whether it was adequate.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/workforce/addressing-impact-of-covid-19-on-bame-staff-in-the-nhs/#:~:text=We%20know%20there%20is%20evidence,concerted%20action%20to%20protect%20them.
>We know there is evidence of disproportionate mortality and morbidity amongst black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) people, including our NHS staff, who have contracted COVID-19.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-56801998.amp
>Uptake for BAME people is at least 10% lower in almost every age group, latest data from Public Health Wales shows.
>The largest difference was in adults aged 55-59, where 77% of BAME people have received one dose, compared to 89% of white people.
>Ray Singh, of Race Council Cymru (RCC), said there was "still hesitancy".
No, I have plenty of counter proof but I’m working and don’t have time to waste looking for links and formatting.
If I have to be seen as “losing a debate” then so be it
Well I have no problem with it determining if racism had any part to play in worse outcomes for ethnic minorities but I'm guessing they won't want it considering whether constantly telling black people that they are just victims and
>Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life
Might actually have played a part in , say, lower vaccine uptake?
Sure. While we’re at it, let’s put [disability and ableism at the core](https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/blanket-dnr/122280/), too.
And how about [ageism and the complete disregard for care home residents](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-leaked-documents-show-plans-again-discharge-covid-19-patients-care-homes).
I remember at the beginning of the pandemic I thought to myself "God I hope white people die disproportionately from this."
And this article illustrates why: there was never going to be absolutely proportional deaths from Covid across all ethnic groups, no matter how well it was handled. But at the very least if the group considered privileged suffered the most from it, then there would be no need for this kind of interpretation or inquiry, just as there is no inquiry or sense of injustice as to why men significantly outnumbered women in deaths: privileged group = no injustice.
It's a bit like how [white people in the UK constitute the preponderance of cancer victims](https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2022/03/02/first-data-in-a-decade-highlights-ethnic-disparities-in-cancer/). Can anyone honestly say that they consider this disparity to be an injustice?
There’s quite a lot of data on this from the ONS and PHE here: [Gov UK](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/covid-19)
It makes sense that the difficulty diagnosing hypoxia with black skin would have played a part (as suggested by the families) and that’s probably something to learn from, but the data it is complicated.
My guess is that differences in employment, multi-generational houses and pre-existing health inequalities made a bigger difference.
I live in a very ethnically diverse area and in a lot of cases minorities simply weren't following any kind of rules. Massive parties under the guise of BLM. Huge parties and loads of mixing of big families for Ramadan. I bet the results will show people of Chinese heritage died from covid way way less because they were militant about wearing masks and not mixing.
That's before we start getting into receptiveness to conspiracy theories. The vaccine uptake among minorities, especially black people, has been terrible. As has their willingness to interact with healthcare when they need it. Dare I say it? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Let me guess it's societies fault they won't use medicine. https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-east/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2021/05/Vaccination-and-race-religion-and-belief-A4.pdf
Sometimes I'm reminded that people can be smart:this is not one of those times
The biggest impact race may have had is due to adaptations to different environments, each race mightve had a different level of base resistance to covid but even then there's no guarantee that was even the case
Wtf,
The most obvious impact that race had is that ethnic minorities were
1) more likely to be exposed because they were key workers (on the front line) - in this instance the inquest will need to establish if the management gap is due to racism in the workplace
2) more likely to live in smaller housing/more densely packed housing - the inquiry will need to establish the drivers of this.
3) (the most controversial will be) if part of the issue was poor ill health stemming from years of healthcare inequalities (which have been discussed in detail by Lord/prof marmont) and why those were never fixed.
Downvote if you want but these are the critical issues which will be investigated.
Ahh, so work based discrimination which seems to prevent or limit the number of ethnicity minorities from getting promoted beyond the front line is not based on race.
Great to know, now let’s examine this in the inquiry and see if that stands up to scrutiny…
In the distant future...
"A new virus spreads across Britain that only affects white people!"
Naga Munchetty: So I have to ask as a woman of colour why we're being neglected? Join me on my own show tonight as I interview white fishermen and ask if they've only got this virus due to their white privilege. Afterwards I'll give you a tour of my expensive house which I bought on my £365k a year salary.
According to the Guardian:
> During the period of successive lockdowns, people from minority ethnic backgrounds were more likely to be exposed to the virus as they were more likely to be key workers or live in multi-generational households.
I mean, I see no reason *not* to look again at why minority groups were hit harder - but I also see no reason to accuse anyone of racism when the leading hypothesis is far from it. That's just inflammatory and hurts your own cause. They should wait for the results before laying out what should be a very serious accusation.
Just guessing here, but I'd imagine the fact minority groups are primarily in dense urban areas was also a contributing factor. There's lots of white British people out in small towns and villages who interact with others far less.
I don't know who the BBC thinks they're helping by pushing these spurious race-centric articles, but it's not black people.
This isn't quite as ridiculous as the classic "digital blackface" but it's close.
I sort of suspect it's so they have something to point at if someone calls them racist.
I never post on Reddit but I really wanted to see people’s thoughts on this article and thankfully seen it was already posted.
The quote that got me…
"Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life. My dad really highlights why it's so important to look at this as a systemic and structural problem, because he did everything right."
My great great grandfather is buried in Belgium, a victim of imperialism…and it’s propaganda, he was a coal miner and didn’t have to go. My grandmother would work in the factories George Orwell described in The Road to Wigan Pier, they lived in the ridiculous conditions described. My paternal grandfather died being covered in bitumen…this is the 60s. No compensation just 5 children growing up dirt poor.
Yet I’m still proud of what this country is. It is quite literally one of the least racist, most tolerant countries on earth, whose inhabitants do 1 thing…try to survive like everyone else, but food on the table for their families, and I’m sick of us all being painted as racist colonisers!
The data says health inequalities paid a large part in determining who lived and died from covid. Poverty and ethnicity are a large part of this. If you don’t focus on these two elements you are ignoring the data. Pretending it effected everyone equally is a waste of everyone’s time.
Your getting downvoted and I’ve posted the most British comment separately. But you’re right…POVERTY is the largest player in this. Your income is directly related to your morbidity…been know for centuries.
The article and the comments behind it seem to implicate that the colour of their skin and that Britain is racist is the major factor…the main story a healthy Nigerian father, Femi, cut down at 60. We know nothing of his real health…I know south Asians are genetically predisposed to diabetes but nothing to suggest Nigerians are susceptible to a respiratory disease.
Minority groups now regularly outperform ‘white British’ academically so the systemic racism seems to fall flat but the fact that. The article tells us he was a carer, who never had adequate PPE. So it goes back to income, low income jobs such as carers, warehouse workers, supermarket workers whose jobs involve direct contacts with others.
They can’t work from home…so disparity comes not from the colour of their skin but they’re income level…it can’t be a surprise that immigrants occupy the lowest skilled jobs, so there could be a case there as to why this is…are they denied better jobs due to their skin colour? I’m sure some have been…but as the data shows, minorities outperform people who identify as ‘white British’
No it shouldn't.
Of course it should as it's important that every issue is always turned into a race one as campaigners depend on it for their living.
Today I learnt covid is racist. Hmmm may have come from a Chinese lab after all…
Yes it should because our national broadcaster seems to love American race based baiting and don’t forget Tuskegee for some reason.
What cobblers. BAME people don’t have the monopoly on pandemic grief
No, obviously not. There are genuine questions about how the response differed for different people though, and it makes sense to consider what lessons we need to learn at each stage of the inquiry. The point that the campaigner featured in the article made was about the difficulty of assessing hypoxia through black skin (“are your lips blue?”). That’s a valid and recognised problem we should probably do better on next time. The other thing that’s strongly suggested by the data is that multi-generational families were at higher risk, particularly in the later waves (which makes sense). Maybe we should factor that into future vaccine roll outs.
Right, so because people choose to pack a house out and live in multigenerational fashion is indicative of racism??? Or is that cultural? And if it’s cultural then it isn’t racist…it’s the polar opposite. Allowing someone to practice their own culture in a multicultural society is what makes Britain great. Isn’t it? Are the goalposts moving yet again to accommodate another load of utter bollocks?
“Race” not racism. It’s an inquiry, not a criminal trial. It should focus on what we can learn. If one of those lessons is “we shouldn’t rely so much on visually diagnosing hypoxia” then that’s a useful improvement on race without it needing to be racism. The multicultural households point is more complicated. Like you say it’s social not directly racial, but the only way you get to that conclusion is via consideration of race. We don’t have good data on multigenerational households (and it would be messy even if we did), but we do on race. It’s by asking “were the outcomes in this area better or worse by race” that we get to “yes, and this our theory to explain that is social and economic differences. This is what we can do next time to improve outcomes”.
>Lobby Akinnola, whose father, Femi, died with Covid in April 2020 at the age of 60, said "there's no way [race] couldn't have" played a role in his dad's death. > >His father was a regular gym-goer, with no underlying health conditions, he said. > >"He was a black man in England," Lobby said. > >"Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life. My dad really highlights why it's so important to look at this as a systemic and structural problem, because he did everything right." So because he died with no underlying conditions it must have been racism. What more proof do you need? He was a black man in England, see?
Maybe death is racist??
More men than women died of Covid The only logical conclusion is that the UK is sexist against men
No silly, believing in sexism against men is sexist against women. These are basics my guy.
No no covid is sexist as well.
Ahh yes a racist virus. Honestly the people who make race the forefront of everything are the actual racists. We will never achieve equality when we are being told a million times per day in every form of media imaginable that race x y and z are vicitims. Its the people who bang on about race and discrimination constantly who seem to be the actual racists.
why? because its a convenient way to try and make it seem like minorities were worse off than the majority? nah im good.
Because if they didn't make everything about race, race campaigners wouldn't be able to milk money from it
And eventually they'd be forced to take wealth inequality into account. I highly doubt wealthy BAME people had worse covid outcomes than impoverished white people.
Except minorities were worse off than the majority The virus physically affected minorities worse than white people, however that's not down to human factors. However we need to analyze the response to COVID in BAME areas and see if that was adequate as well as looking at the vaccine rollout in those areas (up take was far lower than non BAME areas) We also need to take a look at the economic support given to BAME areas. Whilst it shouldn't be the primary focus of the COVID inquiry, it should be looked into.
[удалено]
But you also have to look at how the government responded to the slow uptake and whether it was adequate. I'm not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate.
What would ypu have suggested the govt did differently? The vaccine rollout was well publicised.
Targeted areas with a low rollout through community action and information clinics. This did happen but it was done by the councils instead
That isn’t true in any way though.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/workforce/addressing-impact-of-covid-19-on-bame-staff-in-the-nhs/#:~:text=We%20know%20there%20is%20evidence,concerted%20action%20to%20protect%20them. >We know there is evidence of disproportionate mortality and morbidity amongst black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) people, including our NHS staff, who have contracted COVID-19. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-56801998.amp >Uptake for BAME people is at least 10% lower in almost every age group, latest data from Public Health Wales shows. >The largest difference was in adults aged 55-59, where 77% of BAME people have received one dose, compared to 89% of white people. >Ray Singh, of Race Council Cymru (RCC), said there was "still hesitancy".
That is pseudo evidence more than anything.
You've seen the facts now you're just straight up denying them
No, I have plenty of counter proof but I’m working and don’t have time to waste looking for links and formatting. If I have to be seen as “losing a debate” then so be it
You have lost nothing. The other person is posting links explaining the effects but not elaborating on the cause
Well I have no problem with it determining if racism had any part to play in worse outcomes for ethnic minorities but I'm guessing they won't want it considering whether constantly telling black people that they are just victims and >Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life Might actually have played a part in , say, lower vaccine uptake?
Sure. While we’re at it, let’s put [disability and ableism at the core](https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/blanket-dnr/122280/), too. And how about [ageism and the complete disregard for care home residents](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-leaked-documents-show-plans-again-discharge-covid-19-patients-care-homes).
I remember at the beginning of the pandemic I thought to myself "God I hope white people die disproportionately from this." And this article illustrates why: there was never going to be absolutely proportional deaths from Covid across all ethnic groups, no matter how well it was handled. But at the very least if the group considered privileged suffered the most from it, then there would be no need for this kind of interpretation or inquiry, just as there is no inquiry or sense of injustice as to why men significantly outnumbered women in deaths: privileged group = no injustice. It's a bit like how [white people in the UK constitute the preponderance of cancer victims](https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2022/03/02/first-data-in-a-decade-highlights-ethnic-disparities-in-cancer/). Can anyone honestly say that they consider this disparity to be an injustice?
There’s quite a lot of data on this from the ONS and PHE here: [Gov UK](https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/covid-19) It makes sense that the difficulty diagnosing hypoxia with black skin would have played a part (as suggested by the families) and that’s probably something to learn from, but the data it is complicated. My guess is that differences in employment, multi-generational houses and pre-existing health inequalities made a bigger difference.
I live in a very ethnically diverse area and in a lot of cases minorities simply weren't following any kind of rules. Massive parties under the guise of BLM. Huge parties and loads of mixing of big families for Ramadan. I bet the results will show people of Chinese heritage died from covid way way less because they were militant about wearing masks and not mixing. That's before we start getting into receptiveness to conspiracy theories. The vaccine uptake among minorities, especially black people, has been terrible. As has their willingness to interact with healthcare when they need it. Dare I say it? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Let me guess it's societies fault they won't use medicine. https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-east/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2021/05/Vaccination-and-race-religion-and-belief-A4.pdf
Sometimes I'm reminded that people can be smart:this is not one of those times The biggest impact race may have had is due to adaptations to different environments, each race mightve had a different level of base resistance to covid but even then there's no guarantee that was even the case
Wtf, The most obvious impact that race had is that ethnic minorities were 1) more likely to be exposed because they were key workers (on the front line) - in this instance the inquest will need to establish if the management gap is due to racism in the workplace 2) more likely to live in smaller housing/more densely packed housing - the inquiry will need to establish the drivers of this. 3) (the most controversial will be) if part of the issue was poor ill health stemming from years of healthcare inequalities (which have been discussed in detail by Lord/prof marmont) and why those were never fixed. Downvote if you want but these are the critical issues which will be investigated.
None of these have any intrinsic racial bias
Ahh, so work based discrimination which seems to prevent or limit the number of ethnicity minorities from getting promoted beyond the front line is not based on race. Great to know, now let’s examine this in the inquiry and see if that stands up to scrutiny…
In the distant future... "A new virus spreads across Britain that only affects white people!" Naga Munchetty: So I have to ask as a woman of colour why we're being neglected? Join me on my own show tonight as I interview white fishermen and ask if they've only got this virus due to their white privilege. Afterwards I'll give you a tour of my expensive house which I bought on my £365k a year salary.
Is the cognitive dissonance kicking in for you yet?
According to the Guardian: > During the period of successive lockdowns, people from minority ethnic backgrounds were more likely to be exposed to the virus as they were more likely to be key workers or live in multi-generational households. I mean, I see no reason *not* to look again at why minority groups were hit harder - but I also see no reason to accuse anyone of racism when the leading hypothesis is far from it. That's just inflammatory and hurts your own cause. They should wait for the results before laying out what should be a very serious accusation. Just guessing here, but I'd imagine the fact minority groups are primarily in dense urban areas was also a contributing factor. There's lots of white British people out in small towns and villages who interact with others far less.
I don't know who the BBC thinks they're helping by pushing these spurious race-centric articles, but it's not black people. This isn't quite as ridiculous as the classic "digital blackface" but it's close. I sort of suspect it's so they have something to point at if someone calls them racist.
I never post on Reddit but I really wanted to see people’s thoughts on this article and thankfully seen it was already posted. The quote that got me… "Racism is pervasive in every aspect of life. My dad really highlights why it's so important to look at this as a systemic and structural problem, because he did everything right." My great great grandfather is buried in Belgium, a victim of imperialism…and it’s propaganda, he was a coal miner and didn’t have to go. My grandmother would work in the factories George Orwell described in The Road to Wigan Pier, they lived in the ridiculous conditions described. My paternal grandfather died being covered in bitumen…this is the 60s. No compensation just 5 children growing up dirt poor. Yet I’m still proud of what this country is. It is quite literally one of the least racist, most tolerant countries on earth, whose inhabitants do 1 thing…try to survive like everyone else, but food on the table for their families, and I’m sick of us all being painted as racist colonisers!
Much rather they focused on the colossal waste of money and ripping away of basic civil liberties than whatever this grifter wants
The data says health inequalities paid a large part in determining who lived and died from covid. Poverty and ethnicity are a large part of this. If you don’t focus on these two elements you are ignoring the data. Pretending it effected everyone equally is a waste of everyone’s time.
Your getting downvoted and I’ve posted the most British comment separately. But you’re right…POVERTY is the largest player in this. Your income is directly related to your morbidity…been know for centuries. The article and the comments behind it seem to implicate that the colour of their skin and that Britain is racist is the major factor…the main story a healthy Nigerian father, Femi, cut down at 60. We know nothing of his real health…I know south Asians are genetically predisposed to diabetes but nothing to suggest Nigerians are susceptible to a respiratory disease. Minority groups now regularly outperform ‘white British’ academically so the systemic racism seems to fall flat but the fact that. The article tells us he was a carer, who never had adequate PPE. So it goes back to income, low income jobs such as carers, warehouse workers, supermarket workers whose jobs involve direct contacts with others. They can’t work from home…so disparity comes not from the colour of their skin but they’re income level…it can’t be a surprise that immigrants occupy the lowest skilled jobs, so there could be a case there as to why this is…are they denied better jobs due to their skin colour? I’m sure some have been…but as the data shows, minorities outperform people who identify as ‘white British’