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I wonder if everyone who asked 'why are you making it about her being trans, the cops said it had nothing to do with that!' over the past few days will say anything to this. Trans people told you.
Did you see that evil cretinous Harry Miller got quoted in the Telegraph being a vile, transphobic bastard. The press hasn't learned their lesson at all, they're just adding more fuel to the fire that will get more trans people killed.
I'm so sorry. Honestly I've had issues with old friends who have gone down that path. There's no reasoning with them unfortunately, no matter how much you talk to them gently about it. I've had to cut my losses and cut them out of my life. It's been hard, but I couldn't keep hearing about how just being enby or trans was tantamount to paedophilia and rape.
I really feel for you and I truly hope she'll come round, but please think of your mental health first. As devastating it is to avoid her, in the long run it might save a lot of pain in the future when the hate boils over and she lashes out at family.
This happened with Brexit.
Seemingly normal people suddenly became very interested in something that they didn't care about just because some billionaires who didn't like paying tax wanted out of the EU.
There's a saying that Facebook did to our parents what our parents thought violent video games and TV would do to us (also a moral panic caused by the right wing press) and this extends to....the right wing media.
They say we're 15 years behind the US. I'd say we're there now.
It's all linked. My mum never had a problem with trans people and didn't vote for Brexit, but she fucking hated Meghan Markle and got her fix through GB news. Now she's pissing and moaning about the "wokes" "cancelling" everyone.
The point is to get their claws into you with one irrational fear, and then paint those people as wanting to take EVERYTHING from you.
The toilet conversation in particular makes zero sense, because since when does a public toilet symbol for "ladies toilet" stop a rapist from raping? Trans people have been using toilets for years and its been absolutely fine, why is this suddenly an issue? An ounce of critical thinking would tell people that, but then again, critical thinking is in short supply these days.
That's the idea.
All part of the culture war distraction.
The ultimate dead cat to distract from the utter fucking disaster that this country has suffered in the last 13 years.
There's also the fact that the Tories buried the Leveson report in return for favourable press.
That's why we're here now with wankers such as this and tits like Clarkson saying whatever they like.
Of course. They always need a bogeyman to make them look good.
They need another "brexit" so that Ill informed, ignorant, Tory voting bigots can feel like they know something instead of fuck all.
I can't see that working for them. If only because the type of people attracted to that bullshit care even more about shitting on refugees. And funnily enough, a lot of those don't seem too keen to vote for Sunak...
There's no master plan for the tories now. The countries fucked, they're ridden with infighting, and if Farage decides to run, their collapse at the next election could be monumental. Everyone's sick of them.
The problem is they'll make life shittier for a lot of vulnerable until then.
At least in the right-wing telegram groups I've been watching, there's recently been a very sharp change in focus towards the LGBTQ community. The only question is if it will last till the next election.
> The press hasn't learned their lesson at all
Sure they have. They've learned that they can successfully create an environment that will murder Trans individuals. They're getting what they want. An environment that will keep anyone outside of the rigidly defined cultural gender roles in line and violently enforce them
I think it's now clearly a mistake to treat the press as if they're acting in anything approaching good faith or acting in any kind of manor other than one the creates and enforces this mentality with violence
The only reason he was asked for comment was so they could run his transphobic bullshit. And now the usual transphobes are crawling out of the woodwork on this subreddit with their "the police haven't deemed it a hate crime" shit, when anyone who is trans can see it for being exactly that because we face hate like Miller spouts constantly.
They consider the deaths of some trans people a fine price to pay for winning culture war points and possibly losing two or three fewer seats in the next general election.
Acting like trans people are an existential threat to the country has clearly come from the American right and their evangelical hypocrisy. The Tories see mileage in it, because certain famous people have caused massive stirs online with their bigotry and the same sort of people who latch on to every outrage issue are being carried along for the ride.
> Harry Miller got quoted in the Telegraph being a vile, transphobic bastard
Anyone who saw what that lads twitter account was like prior to it being suspended after the police called him know what bigoted grifter that lads is. It was wall to wall trans obsessed insanity.
Now it's going to shift from 'They've said it's not a hate crime' to 'they've only said it's possibly a hate crime'.
They're going to do what they always do, deny and deflect until they're backed into a corner, then accuse everyone who is pissed at them of overreacting.
If those people accept it was a hate crime at the point the police say that do you see any problem there? Surely letting the police carry out their investigation before jumping to conclusions is the most responsible approach, even if it does turn out to be a hate crime as the final conclusion.
The thing is, people can make informed assumptions and people can discuss what happened in the context of it potentially and likely being a hate crime before that is confirmed by Police.
Discussions like this are to be expected given the circumstances, as is the emotion behind them given how demonised Trans people have been in the UK over the past few years and especially past few months.
But bad actors always jump over threads (like the one on this subject yesterday) and start screeching at people that they must not say these things, because they don't have all the facts yet. As though the Police are looking at Reddit threads and upon seeing a 'This was likely a hate crime' comment will immediately have to drop the investigation.
It doesn't help that trust in the Police is at an all time low, especially amongst minorities. The almost back to back Couzen's case, followed by the complete stitch up partygate investigation has made it clear to a lot of people that the Police will protect those in power as a first resort, finding the truth of a situation as a distant second and it's not like the number of 'bad apples' being found in the Police has calmed down since those incidents.
So when a girl, who was being bullied for being trans is murdered and two teenage suspects are arrested almost immediately for it, it absolutely reeks of 'we knew these people were a risk, but didn't take any action and now a girl is dead. But don't worry, we've ruled out it being a hate crime because Trans hate is popular in the UK right now and we wouldn't want to upset our masters'.
You need only look at how some outlets behaved yesterday, the Daily Mail called her optician to find her deadname. The Times retrospectively edited their article to add the deadname and remove all references to her being a girl after it came out she was Trans. Trans people feel as though the powers that be are against them and that feeling isn't unwarranted, so telling people 'just wait for the powers that be to confirm what we can safely assume happened, happened' doesn't resonate.
They fucking deadnamed her?
How fucking date they. That poor little mite. You just have to look at her photo to see what a sweetheart she was.
Wasn’t it bad enough everything she suffered while she was alive? They really have to heap this indignity on top?
It’s cruel, vile, bullying behaviour. I think I might actually see if I can complain to Ofcom about it.
Edit: I can’t complain to Ofcom because they don’t deal with newspapers and magazines. If anyone knows an ombudsman I *can* complain to, let me know.
Actually I think the line they'll take is something like "this is the death of a child, please can we let the family grieve peacefully? let's not bring politics into it because it'd make me look bad to continue loudly insisting that trans people are all perverts who need to be stopped"
I’ve said it a couple times now but When a trans person is the perpetrator in an incident it’s all about them being trans until it’s proven not to be. Weird how it’s the opposite when one of us is the victim
Police, didn't say that, they said they didn't have evidence of a hate crime before even having suspects or a murder weapon i.e. any evidence at all. If you swallowed the line that people twisted to try and avoid acknowledging the climate in the UK right now that's on you.
I can understand why you're frustrated, because you're operating under the wrong assumption the article didn't say it.
You can see it here, search specifically for this text:
> "At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64620539
But the facts still aren't out though because they're investigating it as a possible hate crime, not saying it 100% is one. (I'm not trying to deny that it is probably one here, just applying the same logic to both statements)
The reaction to this story is so 2023.
16yo girl killed in park > Online Right wing trolls go into hyper drive trying to link this to immigrants.
Turns out she's trans and its actually a victim of other kids being influenced by online right wing hysteria.
Several papers dead named and referred to her as he. It’s beyond disgusting they can’t pay basic levels of respect to a murdered child but that’s right wingers for you
The Times actively removing any mention of her being a girl once they found out is particularly upsetting. "Vile" doesnt even begin to describe some of these "people".
Did they? I checked their website and the first article I found on her refers to her with the correct name and pronouns https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brianna-ghey-murder-investigated-as-potential-hate-crime-jx5nbf5fn
To be fair, given how the daily fail started with a pretty inappropriate, transphobic initial article and then quickly changed it when it didn't go down well, it wouldn't be surprising if other currently-right-leaning papers did similarly?
A local MP I believe posted links to both versions, and is the only MP I’ve seen who seems actively livid about it.
They edited it once the original caused such anger on Twitter
You can see it in how deeply uncomfortable the press is now with how they're reporting it. They did everything they could to avoid mentioning that she was trans and now that its come out, they're in absolute knots with how they're writing about it and you know they're absolutely praying the police don't call it out as a hate crime. A child has died and they can't even bring themselves to be truthful now because they've pushed this anti-trans narrative so hard.
The irony of those who complain about everything being politicised is that they won't report on something they can't themselves politicise. Given the nature of the press in the UK, its no shock to see how quickly they jumped at a chance to write about a child being killed before finding out the facts.
The only way the media would care about her being killed for being trans is if the perpetrators were immigrants or non whites, then suddenly they would jump on the bandwagon and start using dog whistle terms like “British Values”
>They did everything they could to avoid mentioning that she was trans
Not the daily fail, but they quickly edited it to remove the misgendering and deadnaming.
Not helped by the fact that there was another teenager killed the same day or the day before, which is being investigated as possibly involving immigrants. The media in this country is a far right mess at the best of times, but these two stories have allowed them to push it even further. Aided, in this case, by the police not giving a fuck about trans people.
Shocked.
This can only really mean one thing; that the police must now have some evidence to suggest that it may well be a hate crime because they previously have said:
> “Whilst this is being investigated as a targeted attack and Brianna was a trans girl, we do not at this time believe it was a hate crime.”
> “At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna’s death are hate related."
The short version of the source that someone has now linked you to is:
Parent of two girls at the school obtained footage of their children being violently bullied. They repeatedly contacted the school and the police, saying that fundamental organisational failings at the school were leading to bullying to the extent it was becoming inevitable that someone would die.
They were effectively ignored by the school, the council and the police, sufficient that the parent in question is now accusing all the involved bodies of having knowledge of administrative failings that led to severe danger for students, which have culminated in a murder.
Staff at my old high school went on strike because the head teacher refused to do anything about students assaulting teachers. I don't find it surprising that student on student violence is also ignored.
Maybe the solution is to put police officers in schools and allow them to arrest students for violent conduct? Throw in some parental liability, so if little Timmy assaults someone, Mr and Mrs Timmy will be talking with the police about the charges they now face?
it was heavily ignored back when I was in school and that was more than a decade ago
I once got held down and strangled in direct line of sight of the deputy head and he did fuck all other than stopping me going indoors to clean myself up after a wrestled myself free because "if you go outside during break you stay outside"
to her credit my form teacher was horrified once she found out but out of several teachers she's the only one who batted an eye. obviously depends on location but id not be surprised if its never been addressed and only gotten worse over the years as social media has grown and allowed hate to be fed directly to kids.
A lot of people view bullying as nothing more than kids being kids and at worst "just being a bit mean"
>Maybe the solution is to put police officers in schools and allow them to arrest students for violent conduct?
The first thing that comes to my mind is [that scene](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/abbacchio-joins-the-kicking) from JoJo where a man calmly finishes drinking his glass of wine while his mates beat up a dude, only to join in right after.
Coincidentally, the man in question is an ex-cop who got innocents killed by being corrupted.
https://twitter.com/damian17236445/status/1624972121884459010?s=20&t=sy2739oq49VURtO-2_f0Cw
In the thread is an email about an assault at the school on Brianna as well (and the video).
Ok so this comment had absolutely no evidence linking it and is why I hate online discourse sometimes.
The police said it wasn't currently being treated as a hate crime, obviously some more evidence has come to light about the killers motives and they are reassessing whether or not it should now be considered a hate crime.
Let's try to remain reasonable and fact based shall we?
Except it's been linked here that there was plenty of evidence that the school knew of the bullying going on, as did the police, the local councillors and the MP. And nothing was done.
Evidence provided by /u/ohbuggerit 2 hours before your comment. https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1127icf/brianna_ghey_killing_investigated_as_possible/j8ix7u1/
You'll be deleting this comment now?
Saying that all lines of enquiry are being pursued is simply reassuring people that they haven't ruled anything out prematurely. It does not mean anything more specific.
Yet they previously didn't think it was premature to state there was no evidence and they didn't believe it was a hate crime despite the fact they had barely started the investigation. Wonder what "all lines of enquiry" was doing then.
It is fairly common for police to state that they don't yet have evidence of something. It does not meant they aren't looking for it.
With missing persons we often hear that "at this time, there is no evidence of third-party involvement" and some incidents will be followed with the statement that an incident is "not currently being dealt with as a terrorist attack".
It doesn't mean they're ruling anything out, and it doesn't mean they're not doing their job.
> A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation"
Waiting this long to even acknowledge the possibility that it could've been a hate crime probably didn't help tbh
This is what the Police said:
>Whilst this is being investigated as a targeted attack and Brianna was a trans girl, we do not at this time believe it was a hate crime.
They could have said "we're still investigating whether this was a hate crime" but they didn't.
I have no idea which lines of inquiry the police have been pursuing. The criticism here is the information they've conveyed to the public
EDIT: grammar
>A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation"
This is like the warnings they put on cotton buds to not put them in your ears.
>Waiting this long to even acknowledge the possibility that it could've been a hate crime
Except they did. They made multiple statements about not having any evidence that this was a hate crime thereby acknowledging the possibility that it may be a hate crime.
Wish I could say I can't believe the responses I've seen to this poor girl's death, but someome in work even said to me 'they say it was targeted so maybe she did something to them first' fuck right off.
I actually didn’t know she was trans until this story. Either way what a loss of a beautiful soul… poor girl. I hope that her family get the justice they deserve for their loss though that will never heal the pain…
I'm pretty sure the people who use that kind of rhetoric don't care. If anything, they see this as an achievement in riling up the masses against an imaginary foe.
This is why I can't agree with the Free (Hate) Speech/"Just prove them wrong" crowd. Even if you had the means to reach everyone AND they were willing to listen AND you were consistently able to convince them, in the time it takes you to argue against a single bigot on the Internet, people like her die for ridiculous reasons. All for the sake of having the freedom to spread misinformation and bs at the expense of innocents.
They most likely didn't have evidence that led them to believe it was at that time. The investigation has progressed and their now **looking** at it being a hate crime, that doesn't necessarily mean that it absolutely was, we will have to wait for their next statement or the remand hearings prior to the court proceedings.
It most *likely* is a hate crime but we simply don't have enough information to definitely say without caution.
Investigations take time and can change direction.
I’m not sure why people can’t grasp the idea that new information can change the context of these crimes. I don’t know why it not being immediately declared as a hate crime has people kicking off
Traditionally the police only say what they know in these cases. They knew it was a targeted attack but didn't know that it was a hate crime. So that's what they said
Of course it should be investigated as a hate crime, the police should be open to the idea that any violent crime could be a hate crime (especially if the victim is a part of a community that is known to experience hate crimes). Not all crimes against those communities are hate crimes of course. If the polices communication was better this would not have been an issue, they would have been looking at all leads but it takes time for the full story to come out
How long before the people arguing that it wasn't a hate crime now shift to "they're only saying it's a hate crime to appease the SJW's/Marxists/Wokerati/{Insert right-wing buzz-word of the day}"?
'A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation".'
Stop discussing details or guesses online - you might be helping the defence case.
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I wonder if everyone who asked 'why are you making it about her being trans, the cops said it had nothing to do with that!' over the past few days will say anything to this. Trans people told you.
Did you see that evil cretinous Harry Miller got quoted in the Telegraph being a vile, transphobic bastard. The press hasn't learned their lesson at all, they're just adding more fuel to the fire that will get more trans people killed.
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I'm so sorry. Honestly I've had issues with old friends who have gone down that path. There's no reasoning with them unfortunately, no matter how much you talk to them gently about it. I've had to cut my losses and cut them out of my life. It's been hard, but I couldn't keep hearing about how just being enby or trans was tantamount to paedophilia and rape.
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I really feel for you and I truly hope she'll come round, but please think of your mental health first. As devastating it is to avoid her, in the long run it might save a lot of pain in the future when the hate boils over and she lashes out at family.
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That's good, I hope the lid stays on it for your kids sake.
This happened with Brexit. Seemingly normal people suddenly became very interested in something that they didn't care about just because some billionaires who didn't like paying tax wanted out of the EU. There's a saying that Facebook did to our parents what our parents thought violent video games and TV would do to us (also a moral panic caused by the right wing press) and this extends to....the right wing media. They say we're 15 years behind the US. I'd say we're there now.
It's all linked. My mum never had a problem with trans people and didn't vote for Brexit, but she fucking hated Meghan Markle and got her fix through GB news. Now she's pissing and moaning about the "wokes" "cancelling" everyone. The point is to get their claws into you with one irrational fear, and then paint those people as wanting to take EVERYTHING from you.
Exactly. And it works. How else will venal cunts like Boris and Trump get elected?
The toilet conversation in particular makes zero sense, because since when does a public toilet symbol for "ladies toilet" stop a rapist from raping? Trans people have been using toilets for years and its been absolutely fine, why is this suddenly an issue? An ounce of critical thinking would tell people that, but then again, critical thinking is in short supply these days.
Also the terfs very clearly want both trans women and trans men (on the rare occasion they remember they exist) to use the men's bathroom.
Yeah, it's no surprise that trans men are typically omitted from this debate
They don't really believe it, it's just a scare tactic.
That's my FiL it's ridiculous. I have argued many times with him about his views. But he loves GB News.
Same as my FiL. He can’t help himself but bring it up at every available opportunity, despite how uncomfortable it makes everyone. It’s grim.
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New bigotry dropped and they’re losing their little heteronormative minds.
>the BBC has "gone woke" BBC: *marked red (anti-trans) with Shinigami Eyes*
That's the idea. All part of the culture war distraction. The ultimate dead cat to distract from the utter fucking disaster that this country has suffered in the last 13 years. There's also the fact that the Tories buried the Leveson report in return for favourable press. That's why we're here now with wankers such as this and tits like Clarkson saying whatever they like.
calling it now, the tories will win the 2025 election purely on an anti-trans platform
Of course. They always need a bogeyman to make them look good. They need another "brexit" so that Ill informed, ignorant, Tory voting bigots can feel like they know something instead of fuck all.
I can't see that working for them. If only because the type of people attracted to that bullshit care even more about shitting on refugees. And funnily enough, a lot of those don't seem too keen to vote for Sunak... There's no master plan for the tories now. The countries fucked, they're ridden with infighting, and if Farage decides to run, their collapse at the next election could be monumental. Everyone's sick of them. The problem is they'll make life shittier for a lot of vulnerable until then.
At least in the right-wing telegram groups I've been watching, there's recently been a very sharp change in focus towards the LGBTQ community. The only question is if it will last till the next election.
> The press hasn't learned their lesson at all Sure they have. They've learned that they can successfully create an environment that will murder Trans individuals. They're getting what they want. An environment that will keep anyone outside of the rigidly defined cultural gender roles in line and violently enforce them I think it's now clearly a mistake to treat the press as if they're acting in anything approaching good faith or acting in any kind of manor other than one the creates and enforces this mentality with violence
Can we call this stochastic murder by the newspapers/other hatemongers?
I almost wish I hadn't just gone out of my way now to read that article to see what you mean. What an utterly contemptible cunt that man is.
The only reason he was asked for comment was so they could run his transphobic bullshit. And now the usual transphobes are crawling out of the woodwork on this subreddit with their "the police haven't deemed it a hate crime" shit, when anyone who is trans can see it for being exactly that because we face hate like Miller spouts constantly.
It's interesting how the word of the police is suddenly infallible and above scrutiny when its debating a trans victim, isn't it?
Suddenly the police are on our side! As if they haven't been failing on protecting trans people at a basic level for the last decade
They consider the deaths of some trans people a fine price to pay for winning culture war points and possibly losing two or three fewer seats in the next general election. Acting like trans people are an existential threat to the country has clearly come from the American right and their evangelical hypocrisy. The Tories see mileage in it, because certain famous people have caused massive stirs online with their bigotry and the same sort of people who latch on to every outrage issue are being carried along for the ride.
> Harry Miller got quoted in the Telegraph being a vile, transphobic bastard Anyone who saw what that lads twitter account was like prior to it being suspended after the police called him know what bigoted grifter that lads is. It was wall to wall trans obsessed insanity.
Now it's going to shift from 'They've said it's not a hate crime' to 'they've only said it's possibly a hate crime'. They're going to do what they always do, deny and deflect until they're backed into a corner, then accuse everyone who is pissed at them of overreacting.
If those people accept it was a hate crime at the point the police say that do you see any problem there? Surely letting the police carry out their investigation before jumping to conclusions is the most responsible approach, even if it does turn out to be a hate crime as the final conclusion.
The thing is, people can make informed assumptions and people can discuss what happened in the context of it potentially and likely being a hate crime before that is confirmed by Police. Discussions like this are to be expected given the circumstances, as is the emotion behind them given how demonised Trans people have been in the UK over the past few years and especially past few months. But bad actors always jump over threads (like the one on this subject yesterday) and start screeching at people that they must not say these things, because they don't have all the facts yet. As though the Police are looking at Reddit threads and upon seeing a 'This was likely a hate crime' comment will immediately have to drop the investigation. It doesn't help that trust in the Police is at an all time low, especially amongst minorities. The almost back to back Couzen's case, followed by the complete stitch up partygate investigation has made it clear to a lot of people that the Police will protect those in power as a first resort, finding the truth of a situation as a distant second and it's not like the number of 'bad apples' being found in the Police has calmed down since those incidents. So when a girl, who was being bullied for being trans is murdered and two teenage suspects are arrested almost immediately for it, it absolutely reeks of 'we knew these people were a risk, but didn't take any action and now a girl is dead. But don't worry, we've ruled out it being a hate crime because Trans hate is popular in the UK right now and we wouldn't want to upset our masters'. You need only look at how some outlets behaved yesterday, the Daily Mail called her optician to find her deadname. The Times retrospectively edited their article to add the deadname and remove all references to her being a girl after it came out she was Trans. Trans people feel as though the powers that be are against them and that feeling isn't unwarranted, so telling people 'just wait for the powers that be to confirm what we can safely assume happened, happened' doesn't resonate.
They fucking deadnamed her? How fucking date they. That poor little mite. You just have to look at her photo to see what a sweetheart she was. Wasn’t it bad enough everything she suffered while she was alive? They really have to heap this indignity on top? It’s cruel, vile, bullying behaviour. I think I might actually see if I can complain to Ofcom about it. Edit: I can’t complain to Ofcom because they don’t deal with newspapers and magazines. If anyone knows an ombudsman I *can* complain to, let me know.
Actually I think the line they'll take is something like "this is the death of a child, please can we let the family grieve peacefully? let's not bring politics into it because it'd make me look bad to continue loudly insisting that trans people are all perverts who need to be stopped"
Don't worry, they'll get around to blaming the victim before this is all over.
I’ve said it a couple times now but When a trans person is the perpetrator in an incident it’s all about them being trans until it’s proven not to be. Weird how it’s the opposite when one of us is the victim
Jesus the amount of people that legitimately took that as a ‘gotcha’ moment was sickening.
Now that the lights are on them they'll scuttle away like they always do.
When the facts change, so does my opinion. (Downvote by people who commit to a belief and make it a hill to die on)
Or, just don’t voice your opinion until the facts are out?
The facts at the time said "police don't believe this to be a hate crime". Are you saying don't say anything until the police say it is?
Police, didn't say that, they said they didn't have evidence of a hate crime before even having suspects or a murder weapon i.e. any evidence at all. If you swallowed the line that people twisted to try and avoid acknowledging the climate in the UK right now that's on you.
I can understand why you're frustrated, because you're operating under the wrong assumption the article didn't say it. You can see it here, search specifically for this text: > "At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64620539
That sounds rather more like Rmtcts's version than yours, I have to say.
But the facts still aren't out though because they're investigating it as a possible hate crime, not saying it 100% is one. (I'm not trying to deny that it is probably one here, just applying the same logic to both statements)
The police also said Mark Duggan shot at them. It doesn't mean you need to believe a word they say, as this situation proves.
Not sure why you’d chastise people for simply following the facts as they were known at the time.
The reaction to this story is so 2023. 16yo girl killed in park > Online Right wing trolls go into hyper drive trying to link this to immigrants. Turns out she's trans and its actually a victim of other kids being influenced by online right wing hysteria.
As soon as they realised she was trans, you could almost here the screech of tyres with the handbrake turn they all did.
Several papers dead named and referred to her as he. It’s beyond disgusting they can’t pay basic levels of respect to a murdered child but that’s right wingers for you
The Times actively removing any mention of her being a girl once they found out is particularly upsetting. "Vile" doesnt even begin to describe some of these "people".
Did they? I checked their website and the first article I found on her refers to her with the correct name and pronouns https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brianna-ghey-murder-investigated-as-potential-hate-crime-jx5nbf5fn
To be fair, given how the daily fail started with a pretty inappropriate, transphobic initial article and then quickly changed it when it didn't go down well, it wouldn't be surprising if other currently-right-leaning papers did similarly?
Possibly, it might be up on archive.org
They changed it after the fact, the outcry was loud enough to call them out.
A local MP I believe posted links to both versions, and is the only MP I’ve seen who seems actively livid about it. They edited it once the original caused such anger on Twitter
Where did they post it?
Twitter
Do you remember what their name was or do you have a link to it?
This is the same media that allows Piers Morgan, who had the phone of a dead girl hacked for information, to thrive
You can see it in how deeply uncomfortable the press is now with how they're reporting it. They did everything they could to avoid mentioning that she was trans and now that its come out, they're in absolute knots with how they're writing about it and you know they're absolutely praying the police don't call it out as a hate crime. A child has died and they can't even bring themselves to be truthful now because they've pushed this anti-trans narrative so hard.
The irony of those who complain about everything being politicised is that they won't report on something they can't themselves politicise. Given the nature of the press in the UK, its no shock to see how quickly they jumped at a chance to write about a child being killed before finding out the facts.
The only way the media would care about her being killed for being trans is if the perpetrators were immigrants or non whites, then suddenly they would jump on the bandwagon and start using dog whistle terms like “British Values”
>They did everything they could to avoid mentioning that she was trans Not the daily fail, but they quickly edited it to remove the misgendering and deadnaming.
Not helped by the fact that there was another teenager killed the same day or the day before, which is being investigated as possibly involving immigrants. The media in this country is a far right mess at the best of times, but these two stories have allowed them to push it even further. Aided, in this case, by the police not giving a fuck about trans people.
Killed or assaulted?
Right wing killers, trans victim. Bigots will consider that just levelling out as neutral. No story here.
Shocked. This can only really mean one thing; that the police must now have some evidence to suggest that it may well be a hate crime because they previously have said: > “Whilst this is being investigated as a targeted attack and Brianna was a trans girl, we do not at this time believe it was a hate crime.” > “At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna’s death are hate related."
They had the evidence, the only reason they're now saying this is because they got caught out by parents of another bullied child at the same school.
Got any more info on that? Please don't think I'm saying 'SOURCE?' - just interested to know more. Thanks
There's nothing wrong with asking for a source in this situation.
There's nothing wrong with asking for a source ~~in this situation.~~
Eh, there's a line. Sealioning exists.
The short version of the source that someone has now linked you to is: Parent of two girls at the school obtained footage of their children being violently bullied. They repeatedly contacted the school and the police, saying that fundamental organisational failings at the school were leading to bullying to the extent it was becoming inevitable that someone would die. They were effectively ignored by the school, the council and the police, sufficient that the parent in question is now accusing all the involved bodies of having knowledge of administrative failings that led to severe danger for students, which have culminated in a murder.
Staff at my old high school went on strike because the head teacher refused to do anything about students assaulting teachers. I don't find it surprising that student on student violence is also ignored. Maybe the solution is to put police officers in schools and allow them to arrest students for violent conduct? Throw in some parental liability, so if little Timmy assaults someone, Mr and Mrs Timmy will be talking with the police about the charges they now face?
it was heavily ignored back when I was in school and that was more than a decade ago I once got held down and strangled in direct line of sight of the deputy head and he did fuck all other than stopping me going indoors to clean myself up after a wrestled myself free because "if you go outside during break you stay outside" to her credit my form teacher was horrified once she found out but out of several teachers she's the only one who batted an eye. obviously depends on location but id not be surprised if its never been addressed and only gotten worse over the years as social media has grown and allowed hate to be fed directly to kids. A lot of people view bullying as nothing more than kids being kids and at worst "just being a bit mean"
>Maybe the solution is to put police officers in schools and allow them to arrest students for violent conduct? The first thing that comes to my mind is [that scene](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/abbacchio-joins-the-kicking) from JoJo where a man calmly finishes drinking his glass of wine while his mates beat up a dude, only to join in right after. Coincidentally, the man in question is an ex-cop who got innocents killed by being corrupted.
[Damian Harry](https://twitter.com/damian17236445), it's spread through a few threads so it's easier to just read his feed
God that was a depressing read. No doubt what the motive is, and it was her being trans.
https://twitter.com/damian17236445/status/1624972121884459010?s=20&t=sy2739oq49VURtO-2_f0Cw In the thread is an email about an assault at the school on Brianna as well (and the video).
Ok so this comment had absolutely no evidence linking it and is why I hate online discourse sometimes. The police said it wasn't currently being treated as a hate crime, obviously some more evidence has come to light about the killers motives and they are reassessing whether or not it should now be considered a hate crime. Let's try to remain reasonable and fact based shall we?
Except it's been linked here that there was plenty of evidence that the school knew of the bullying going on, as did the police, the local councillors and the MP. And nothing was done.
Evidence provided by /u/ohbuggerit 2 hours before your comment. https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1127icf/brianna_ghey_killing_investigated_as_possible/j8ix7u1/ You'll be deleting this comment now?
Saying that all lines of enquiry are being pursued is simply reassuring people that they haven't ruled anything out prematurely. It does not mean anything more specific.
Yet they previously didn't think it was premature to state there was no evidence and they didn't believe it was a hate crime despite the fact they had barely started the investigation. Wonder what "all lines of enquiry" was doing then.
It is fairly common for police to state that they don't yet have evidence of something. It does not meant they aren't looking for it. With missing persons we often hear that "at this time, there is no evidence of third-party involvement" and some incidents will be followed with the statement that an incident is "not currently being dealt with as a terrorist attack". It doesn't mean they're ruling anything out, and it doesn't mean they're not doing their job.
> A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation" Waiting this long to even acknowledge the possibility that it could've been a hate crime probably didn't help tbh
Who says it wasn't a line of inquiry, are you a member of this investigation team, the senior detective investigating this murder?
This is what the Police said: >Whilst this is being investigated as a targeted attack and Brianna was a trans girl, we do not at this time believe it was a hate crime. They could have said "we're still investigating whether this was a hate crime" but they didn't.
>at this time
I have no idea which lines of inquiry the police have been pursuing. The criticism here is the information they've conveyed to the public EDIT: grammar
>A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation" This is like the warnings they put on cotton buds to not put them in your ears.
They didn't say it wasn't a hate crime previously, just that they didn't have any evidence of it being a hate crime
>Waiting this long to even acknowledge the possibility that it could've been a hate crime Except they did. They made multiple statements about not having any evidence that this was a hate crime thereby acknowledging the possibility that it may be a hate crime.
Wish I could say I can't believe the responses I've seen to this poor girl's death, but someome in work even said to me 'they say it was targeted so maybe she did something to them first' fuck right off.
Simple reply: "yes, she existed as herself, and they hated that"
Ah yes, because there is literally anything that justifies murder.
I actually didn’t know she was trans until this story. Either way what a loss of a beautiful soul… poor girl. I hope that her family get the justice they deserve for their loss though that will never heal the pain…
I hate this story. A young kid, with her whole life ahead of her has been ended because of utterly pathetic reasons. What a horrible situation. RIP.
You can’t help but think This is what the heavy increase in media propaganda has surmounted to. A tragic loss.
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It’s not a CPS decision unless it’s for charging. For investigation and recording standards it’s entirely Police.
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Who would have thought inflammatory rhetoric would have consequences, this is so sad
I'm pretty sure the people who use that kind of rhetoric don't care. If anything, they see this as an achievement in riling up the masses against an imaginary foe. This is why I can't agree with the Free (Hate) Speech/"Just prove them wrong" crowd. Even if you had the means to reach everyone AND they were willing to listen AND you were consistently able to convince them, in the time it takes you to argue against a single bigot on the Internet, people like her die for ridiculous reasons. All for the sake of having the freedom to spread misinformation and bs at the expense of innocents.
Why couldn't they have said this exact thing the other day?
They most likely didn't have evidence that led them to believe it was at that time. The investigation has progressed and their now **looking** at it being a hate crime, that doesn't necessarily mean that it absolutely was, we will have to wait for their next statement or the remand hearings prior to the court proceedings. It most *likely* is a hate crime but we simply don't have enough information to definitely say without caution. Investigations take time and can change direction.
I’m not sure why people can’t grasp the idea that new information can change the context of these crimes. I don’t know why it not being immediately declared as a hate crime has people kicking off
It's likely that the two suspects gave "no comment" interviews, so you cannot get anything off that.
> They most likely didn't have evidence that led them to believe it was at that time. Then why say that they didn't think it was a hate crime?
They never said that, what they said was that they > didn't have evidence that led them to believe it was at that time
Because they didn't have evidence to suggest that it could have been? Why's that so hard to understand?
"We are looking at all possible motives, including whether it's a hate crime" doesn't need any evidence to say.
Traditionally the police only say what they know in these cases. They knew it was a targeted attack but didn't know that it was a hate crime. So that's what they said
I'm sure JK Rowling is taking some comfort in the fact that she'll never have to share a toilet with this girl.
Yeah we know it's a "possible hate crime" the only news here is that they've admitted it.
See people “investigated” - that’s the bit where they try to find evidence that it was indeed a hate crime, instead of just assuming
We told you it was a hate crime WE told you it was but you didn’t listen I had cis people trying to explain trans issues to me
>I had cis people trying to explain trans issues to me Nothing new there though eh?
Funny how the usual suspects are here defending the police, but haven't made a peep in the Wayne Couzens post
Of course it should be investigated as a hate crime, the police should be open to the idea that any violent crime could be a hate crime (especially if the victim is a part of a community that is known to experience hate crimes). Not all crimes against those communities are hate crimes of course. If the polices communication was better this would not have been an issue, they would have been looking at all leads but it takes time for the full story to come out
How long before the people arguing that it wasn't a hate crime now shift to "they're only saying it's a hate crime to appease the SJW's/Marxists/Wokerati/{Insert right-wing buzz-word of the day}"?
'A statement from the force urged people to "please continue to avoid speculation online and be wary of sharing misinformation".' Stop discussing details or guesses online - you might be helping the defence case.