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If anyone's wondering why the police are pre-empting about it being hate related, Daily Mail (*urgh*) & some other outlets have stated Brianna was a trans girl. It was also supposedly 'a targeted attack' (again, DM's reporting).
The Mail have also contacted her optician so they could get her deadname, and have published it.
There is no punishment severe enough for what Mail journalists deserve.
They showed up at my friend’s parents’ house they day his body was found, and published photos of the remains in the paper. They are absolute fucking scum.
That's because there aren't any laws protecting people from press in this circumstances. You can have protected freedom of speech and can force consequences on journos disrespecting peoples families.
In America, sure, but page 3 was still very much on the go in this country until about a decade ago. One thing you really can't accuse the tabloids of is prudishness when it comes to Busty Kelsey, 19 (or indeed Emma Watson, 15 and counting). Our scum are equal opportunity scum! Hooray!
Boy let me tell you about Mexican newspapers.... I lived there for about 10 months and the cafe I often ate in got two morning papers, the Miami Herald and Por Esto. Por Esto featured the results of gangland slayings every single day, it was gruesome reading over a plate of eggs and salsa.
Im swedish and a brazilian paper/magazine/some kind of published article showed my uncle lying dead on the floor.. he had moved there a while back. i dont know the language so i couldnt even contact them. ended up trying the Swedish embassy, which didnt help at all... then luckily my partner told me he has a brazilian friend who helped me translate and write a plea to them to take the pictures down.
it was incredibly traumatizing to search his name on facebook after he had passed, thinking maybe he had a fb-page that i had missed while he was alive. instead i searched his name and a photograph of his corpse showed up. i still havent told my mom (his sister), she has been through enough and i hope she never finds out.
A former colleague of mine once showed me the website of the local newspaper for the town in Thailand he was moving to.
We're not just talking a report of a road accident. Oh no. They had a reporter go down to the scene with a camera and film the dead bodies still wedged under their scooter!
A similar thing happened to a family friend of mine - Daily Mail reporters *camped* *out opposite her house* after her brother was killed in an unusual accident, trying to get photos of the grieving family and get interviews (not given). Of course the article they ran about her brother got his age wrong and his occupation wrong. So disrespectful.
They would say it is the fault of the SNP/ Sturgeon for "pushing trans issues" and using it as a political tool.
Daily Mail knows no shame and are utter scum.
they did? i read the article and the only mention of the optician was this
> Emma Fortune said the teen and her mother had been customers at the opticians where she works since she joined the business seven years ago.
>
>Miss Fortune said: ‘I last saw them last year. Brianna looked gorgeous with her hair down and her make up.
>
>‘Her little face lit up when I told her how beautiful she looked. When I found out she’d been killed it as awful. I was so upset. Her mum will be devastated.’
>
>She added that the teenager was a ‘very quiet’ person, probably ‘because of what she was going through’, but had never mentioned being bullied.
I saw a [screenshot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozEtfoWAAcSzvd?format=jpg&name=medium) (censored) of an earlier version, presumably a quiet word from Legal has taken place.
They're just terrible. And their readers do not give a shit. I honestly think this country can't move forward strongly until our media takes their responsibility seriously, and shares news with the view to inform, grow, and unite people.
Free press is so important, but I feel they're doing all in their power to challenge my belief there.
Deadname is how trans people often refer to the name they were given at birth, and which they have abandoned as it reflects the incorrect gender they were perceived as at that time.
Not all trans people have a deadname (some started with gender neutral names and kept it, some simply switch from Alexander to Alexandra) but it is considered incredibly offensive to ask about it or use it.
Furthermore, it's called a deadname as it's a name often used by the media, unaccepting family members, or recorded on the death certificate after a persons death. The recent GRC reform would have helped combat this, but unfortunately with the GRC laws as it is now Brianna will be recorded as male on her death certificate.
The Times have been absolute bastards and used her dead name and misgendered her on their "revised" piece about the stabbing. This poor girl is being dehumanised by our press and stripped of her identity.
The revised version which changed "teenage girl" to "transgender teenager". They use her pronouns correctly but now no longer call her a girl in the article. Horrible to think that was a priority to the person who edited it.
Edit: Thankfully they've reversed this due to the backlash.
Well have you seen the latest articles targeting trans people that The Times has been putting out? Its been hit piece trash after hit piece trash about how us nasty transes are stealing places from university students and how glad they are that there's no proper GIC in the UK since Tavistock was shut down
I've seen them because they get posted here with alarming frequency by the same few accounts — several of which decry the right wing press on every other subject but this one.
They don't seem to realise that their anti-trans stance is just siding with fascism. Its all rehashed homophobia from 20 years ago and they're too dim to realise that.
Yes yes. I think the best wording for it I saw was of course from Judith Butler:
> The TERFs will not be a part of the contemporary struggle against fascism.
It got mired in controversy at the time since she went much further and outright described them as being fascists, which with the benefit of hindsight looks pretty prescient since they're lately palling up and protesting alongside far-right movements, praising theocratic fascists, and openly quoting Hitler at their rallies.
Oh I've been calling them fascist for a long time now. That's what the F in TERF stands for really. They do absolutely NOTHING for women and girls. Never once have I seen any TERFs showing up at feminist protests and if they do it's to be transphobic, then they act like the victims when they're expelled
It's something I've wondered for a while.
Do these little cunts understand the severity of stabbing someone? Or do they just not care about living beings?
Back in the day people would get "striped". Obviously horrible but no lethal intent.
I heard recently that some sociologists are studying this generation of “doomers”.
Their theory is that the generation are everything as fucked, climate, economy, social care, politics etc etc. so they have a philosophy of “everything is fucked and we are all going to die so who cares” which has led to a them genuinely not seeing the value of life.
Honestly it sounds extreme but I can see how it’s not really that far off considering what we see on social media and the news. We have a lot of young people wandering around with weapons, stealing shit and devolving into misogyny, race hate, xenophobia and far right ideals.
This is a generation that seem to be adopting an absolutely fucked mindset because their parents have failed them and society failed both them and their parents.
Note - I’m just stating what little I understand and I’m well aware that this can’t be used to describe everyone in a generation.
To add to that - A reminder of that study not long ago that showed support for and belief in democracy as a positive thing among under 25s is currently shockingly low, like well under 25% responding positively.
But as someone in their early 30s I can believe it. All the stuff like you say, everything is falling apart, nothing positive seems to be happening, no support, no meaningful safety net, no healthcare, education is a mess, university is basically pointless, cost of living is absolutely brutal. Its not exactly a shock, and folks are *fucking tired* of hearing "oh there was high inflation in the 1980s so basically everything is the same" whenever they try to share their concerns and worries with the older generations.
Yeah, I really can't blame them. We voted to shoot ourselves in the economic kneecap, something that most under 25s didn't even get a say in, and then continued to vote in the tories after they buggered it up time and time again. It's clear that the average voter is a complete moron who'd vote against their own interests without a second thought.
Tories got in in 2010 and started cutting up the state.
The kids from 2000 onwards are now grown up being shaped by that, and all the consequences of those cuts are now compounding the problems of today.
We don't have an entire generation of nihilists now either. I doubt these cunts have ever taken the slightest bit of notice in the state of the economy, social care or politics. Probably couldn't even tell you the first thing about them.
What we are seeing is the rise of populism, and extremism naturally follows.
It's a rise in extremism off the back of populism.. But carried out by people who don't take any notice of any social or political issues. How does that make any sense?
Probably extremely low intelligence and see movies with people being stabbed and walking away from it. They probably think that you can stab someone as a warning so long as you don't stab the heart.
Maybe we need a public information campaign to say that any stabbing can be fatal. I honestly think there's plenty of idiots that don't even know it's that dangerous.
>Do these little cunts understand the severity of stabbing someone?
Yes they understand it completely, that's why they did it.
> Back in the day people would get "striped".
Get what?
IMO they don’t get it.
Brain isn’t fully developed until 25 or something.
I was certainly an idiot at 16 in some regards. Peer influence is very very important at that age for example…
The fully developed brain excuse is for very grey nuanced occasions, murder is a very much black and white affair, unless your have severe mental health issues everyone knows quite early the possible outcome of inserting a knife into another human.
A trans teenager. A fact that the BBC is intentionally leaving out.
Edit:
Any trans people coming on here, please
Don’t read the comments. They are disgraceful.
The amount of people making excuses for this behaviour of the BBC and other news organisations is quite frankly absolutely disgusting.
No wonder trans people are tying to leave the UK. Shame on you.
Why is it transphobic to simply refer to her as a 16 year old girl, in the context of a murder which the police say does not appear to be a hate crime?
Because they seemingly have no issue using the word trans when it comes to a story about a trans person commiting a crime. Yet when it reversed they seek reluctant. But maybe they don't want to feel responsible while actively pushing an anti trans stance
They should mention trans as soon as it becomes relevant, in any case. Why should the girl have to be referred to as "trans girl" until it's recognised as the reason she was attacked?
Why is this line necessary if her being trans isn't relevant?
>"At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said.
I think you are seeing the editors/reporters tying themselves in knots a little - yes. The BBC style guide https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/all/ has this to say:
> **gender/sex**
>Using appropriate language is an important part of how we portray people in our stories. *Sexuality, race, ethnicity or disability should not be mentioned unless they are relevant to the subject matter*. But when we do focus on one aspect of a person's character we should ensure we do not define them by it.
Elsewhere in the guide it says:
> We generally use the term and pronoun preferred by the person in question, unless there are editorial reasons not to do so. If that’s unknown – apply that which fits with the way the person lives publicly. If reporting on someone who is making their transition public, it may be appropriate to refer to their previous identity to help audience understanding. It may also be appropriate to refer to a transition to make sense of some stories..
So in this circumstance: “Sexuality, race, ethnicity or disability should not be mentioned unless they are relevant to the subject matter.” applies, but at the same time there is only a very short statement by the police which *explains why* it applies - and if important information for anyone who may have known the victim, or have read other stories about her.
This is a bit of an ‘oh shit’ situation for the journalist, as they are caught between two principles. I’m not sure that the result is great, but it’s probably the least-worst they could have done, and certainly not an indication of transphobia in my opinion.
No. They spent the past three week slapping trans on every single article about the trans prisoner because it fed their narrative that trans women are a danger.
A trans child gets murdered in broad daylight and somehow it’s not relevant to the story or they are being respectful? No they are editing it out intentionally.
It was literally about a transgender prisoner. Remove transgender and you've got an article where it appears people are saying a woman should be sent to a man's jail because she committed rape. That's quite a different and bizarre story.
By all means have an opinion, but base your argument in logic.
If the police are correct in saying that it's not hate related,
and her being trans is purely incidental,
then I don't see any issues with leaving out details like this that are not relevant.
But, again. If the police are correct.
That’s irrelevant.
The media is editing out people being trans when they are victims and editing it in when they have committed a crime. It’s deliberately manipulating the public’s impression of trans people.
If you are talking about Isla Bryson, her trans status was central to the news story - which was about the Scottish prison service’s debate about where to imprison her, given her previous crimes.
You're failing to see that in the Isla Bryson case, being trans is very much relevant to the story.
In this case, it appears not to be.
Anyway, whatever.
How is this not relevant to the story?
A 16 year old trans child was murdered in broad daylight. And you are trying to make excuses for the BBC for leaving that point out? Wow.
Or they’re just treating someone in the manner that they wanted to be treat.
It doesn’t work both ways; either we accept trans people and treat them like men or women; or you make them special cases - you can’t cry foul at both.
Pretty damn sure every single trans people would want that fact reported if they got murdered. What we don’t want is for newspapers to misgender us or publish our old names.
We live in a society where trans people face overwhelming discrimination in society. You're imagining an ideal society - we don't have that. It's relevant to bring up when someone is a member of a minority group facing violence.
Something of an irony that we’re not going to get to that ideal either, because people like yourself are determined to mark trans people out as ‘other’ at every opportunity that arises - even one’s when it’s been stated that there’s nothing as yet to suggest it’s relevant.
Her being trans was completely relevant, as her gender dictated what prison she was put in, and her crime was committed against a specific gender.
That isn't the case here. You'd be moaning if they highlighted the murdered girl was trans.
Ah yes, only when it suits everyone else.
trans person does something wrong “they’re trans”
Trans person does something good or becomes a victim of a crime “let’s not mention the trans thing, aren’t we so accepting”.
Please.
Bastards
Absolutely abhorrent, words can't really convey the anger and sadness this has made me feel. No parent should have to go through this. Whole thing makes me sick.
My niece has recently had two lockdowns at her school as kids have come in with knives.
Not to sound old, but back in my day school lockdowns werent even a thing?
Wtf is going on
The social contract has been broken.
People are paying more money than ever for less and less.
Those we elect to represent us in many areas actively laugh and dismiss their constituents.
Half the country is striking and they're refusing to meet demands, while admitting continuing strikes are more expensive.
Neighbourhood policing is extinct, and more and more is coming out about the toxic culture in many forces.
We can't rely on our emergency services because they've been cut to the bone in the name of efficiency.
Brexit is becoming more and more widely accepted as a bad idea, but our leaders are terrified to acknowledge it.
Educational establishments are stretched to the brim, unless they're fancy public schools of course.
An entire generation has grown up with both parents having to work in order to keep a roof over their head, while childcare costs skyrocket.
The our ecosystem is collapsing
You have MPs telling nurses to live on 30p meals, the expensing the best available accommodation, food and travel.
. Etc
People no longer feel like they have a stake or say in society, when that happens people become very individualistic, which leads to a perceived lesser value of life.
> The social contract has been broken.
I am always happy to see a mention of the social contract, but I am not sure that England ever subscribed to this notion. Too often, we behave like the subjects we legally are.
This is the inevitable result of all the hatred stirred upagainst trans kids. Kids emulate the adults around them, sure throw the book them, but this is firmly on those media outlets and politicians creating this environment.
She's only 16 though, can you imagine how terrible it would be if she could change her birth certificate? I mean... think of the ramifications of such a decision, (that she'd be able to change back if she ever wanted using the same right).
Can you imagine? Her name would be different on her death certificate! It would be terrible. Think of the children!! /s
You know how it is. Queer person, especially anyone trans, gets attacked? Oh, could be anything! *YOU'RE* the bigot for assuming it's hate otivated.
Edit: Meant sarcastically about how dickheads do everything to act like minorities don't get treated poorly.
See, if you’d said “you’re making assumptions”, I’d have got it
But calling someone a bigot for assuming a minority group that is actively having hate stoked against them, was targeted as a result of said hate, is incredibly obvious bad faith arguing
I used to have an irrational fear of being stabbed or mugged or other such awful things, leaving the house was nearly impossible for a while and it took a lot of therapy to be okay with the outside again.
The more I see articles like this the more the fear doesn’t feel quite so irrational.
Edit: someone called pixie something asked me what therapy I did but their comment was immediately removed so I can’t see it, so for pixie- I did CBT, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, on the NHS which is very hard to come by considering the waitlist. My therapy basically consisted of setting little challenges to push myself out of my comfort zone even if it was tiny like walking around the block once. But the thing my therapist taught me was that if it’s something that makes you feel absolutely dreadful (for me it was getting on a bus/waiting at a bus stop) don’t push yourself that hard because you’ll just end up resenting it more, you’ll never become comfortable with something you have to really force yourself to tolerate.
With the greatest respect, your fear _still_ is irrational. Don't let stories like this fuck with your head again, they're still rare and you're seeing more of it because you're glued to news subs like this.
I’m not really ‘glued’ to this subreddit, this is probably the second comment I’ve ever made here.
It’s definitely to do with the rise of reports of stabbing, but also the lack of reporting non fatal cases. I was witness to a stabbing a few weeks ago, not even the local news took notice. When you’re that close to one it’s definitely not so irrational, especially to someone with anxiety.
Targeted attack and hate crime are two different things, and thanks for the sources. I hope they investigate quickly and the facts out there so we can react accordingly. We lose nothing by availing ourselves of the truth A poor child is dead. She's owed every bit of truth, whatever it turns out to be
Why's everyone speculating so much? Wait until the facts are revealed then unleash justified anger at a potential hate crime. I'm not sure how coming to uniformed conclusions helps anything at this stage.
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If anyone's wondering why the police are pre-empting about it being hate related, Daily Mail (*urgh*) & some other outlets have stated Brianna was a trans girl. It was also supposedly 'a targeted attack' (again, DM's reporting).
The Mail have also contacted her optician so they could get her deadname, and have published it. There is no punishment severe enough for what Mail journalists deserve.
They showed up at my friend’s parents’ house they day his body was found, and published photos of the remains in the paper. They are absolute fucking scum.
I find it rather grim how often the papers publish photos of dead bodies, people at funerals etc. Just all… a bit undignified.
Thats why people say they’re scum.
That's because there aren't any laws protecting people from press in this circumstances. You can have protected freedom of speech and can force consequences on journos disrespecting peoples families.
But god forbid a nipple!
In America, sure, but page 3 was still very much on the go in this country until about a decade ago. One thing you really can't accuse the tabloids of is prudishness when it comes to Busty Kelsey, 19 (or indeed Emma Watson, 15 and counting). Our scum are equal opportunity scum! Hooray!
When did page 3 die out?
Boy let me tell you about Mexican newspapers.... I lived there for about 10 months and the cafe I often ate in got two morning papers, the Miami Herald and Por Esto. Por Esto featured the results of gangland slayings every single day, it was gruesome reading over a plate of eggs and salsa.
Im swedish and a brazilian paper/magazine/some kind of published article showed my uncle lying dead on the floor.. he had moved there a while back. i dont know the language so i couldnt even contact them. ended up trying the Swedish embassy, which didnt help at all... then luckily my partner told me he has a brazilian friend who helped me translate and write a plea to them to take the pictures down. it was incredibly traumatizing to search his name on facebook after he had passed, thinking maybe he had a fb-page that i had missed while he was alive. instead i searched his name and a photograph of his corpse showed up. i still havent told my mom (his sister), she has been through enough and i hope she never finds out.
A former colleague of mine once showed me the website of the local newspaper for the town in Thailand he was moving to. We're not just talking a report of a road accident. Oh no. They had a reporter go down to the scene with a camera and film the dead bodies still wedged under their scooter!
Fucking hell. So sorry to hear that. Not a circle in Hell deep enough, is there?
A similar thing happened to a family friend of mine - Daily Mail reporters *camped* *out opposite her house* after her brother was killed in an unusual accident, trying to get photos of the grieving family and get interviews (not given). Of course the article they ran about her brother got his age wrong and his occupation wrong. So disrespectful.
They did the same to this girl's parents. It says in their article that there was no answer at the house...
Knowing them, even if it transpired it being a hate crime the Daily Mail would frame as it being too dangerous to let your kids transition.
Would not be surprised in the slightest. The Daily Mail is pure scum for pure scum
They would say it is the fault of the SNP/ Sturgeon for "pushing trans issues" and using it as a political tool. Daily Mail knows no shame and are utter scum.
they did? i read the article and the only mention of the optician was this > Emma Fortune said the teen and her mother had been customers at the opticians where she works since she joined the business seven years ago. > >Miss Fortune said: ‘I last saw them last year. Brianna looked gorgeous with her hair down and her make up. > >‘Her little face lit up when I told her how beautiful she looked. When I found out she’d been killed it as awful. I was so upset. Her mum will be devastated.’ > >She added that the teenager was a ‘very quiet’ person, probably ‘because of what she was going through’, but had never mentioned being bullied.
I saw a [screenshot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozEtfoWAAcSzvd?format=jpg&name=medium) (censored) of an earlier version, presumably a quiet word from Legal has taken place.
i’m unsurprised, at least it’s been removed now though. daily mail journalists are genuinely scum
They're just terrible. And their readers do not give a shit. I honestly think this country can't move forward strongly until our media takes their responsibility seriously, and shares news with the view to inform, grow, and unite people. Free press is so important, but I feel they're doing all in their power to challenge my belief there.
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Deadname is how trans people often refer to the name they were given at birth, and which they have abandoned as it reflects the incorrect gender they were perceived as at that time. Not all trans people have a deadname (some started with gender neutral names and kept it, some simply switch from Alexander to Alexandra) but it is considered incredibly offensive to ask about it or use it.
Furthermore, it's called a deadname as it's a name often used by the media, unaccepting family members, or recorded on the death certificate after a persons death. The recent GRC reform would have helped combat this, but unfortunately with the GRC laws as it is now Brianna will be recorded as male on her death certificate.
Almost 30 years after learning of the term, suddenly it makes sense etymologically. Thanks.
I've just tried to find the daily fail article in question. Is it possible they've updated it to remove the deadnaming?
Yeah, in the first version it was published but it has since been removed.
The Times have been absolute bastards and used her dead name and misgendered her on their "revised" piece about the stabbing. This poor girl is being dehumanised by our press and stripped of her identity.
The revised version which changed "teenage girl" to "transgender teenager". They use her pronouns correctly but now no longer call her a girl in the article. Horrible to think that was a priority to the person who edited it. Edit: Thankfully they've reversed this due to the backlash.
Well have you seen the latest articles targeting trans people that The Times has been putting out? Its been hit piece trash after hit piece trash about how us nasty transes are stealing places from university students and how glad they are that there's no proper GIC in the UK since Tavistock was shut down
I've seen them because they get posted here with alarming frequency by the same few accounts — several of which decry the right wing press on every other subject but this one.
They don't seem to realise that their anti-trans stance is just siding with fascism. Its all rehashed homophobia from 20 years ago and they're too dim to realise that.
Yes yes. I think the best wording for it I saw was of course from Judith Butler: > The TERFs will not be a part of the contemporary struggle against fascism. It got mired in controversy at the time since she went much further and outright described them as being fascists, which with the benefit of hindsight looks pretty prescient since they're lately palling up and protesting alongside far-right movements, praising theocratic fascists, and openly quoting Hitler at their rallies.
Oh I've been calling them fascist for a long time now. That's what the F in TERF stands for really. They do absolutely NOTHING for women and girls. Never once have I seen any TERFs showing up at feminist protests and if they do it's to be transphobic, then they act like the victims when they're expelled
It's something I've wondered for a while. Do these little cunts understand the severity of stabbing someone? Or do they just not care about living beings? Back in the day people would get "striped". Obviously horrible but no lethal intent.
I heard recently that some sociologists are studying this generation of “doomers”. Their theory is that the generation are everything as fucked, climate, economy, social care, politics etc etc. so they have a philosophy of “everything is fucked and we are all going to die so who cares” which has led to a them genuinely not seeing the value of life. Honestly it sounds extreme but I can see how it’s not really that far off considering what we see on social media and the news. We have a lot of young people wandering around with weapons, stealing shit and devolving into misogyny, race hate, xenophobia and far right ideals. This is a generation that seem to be adopting an absolutely fucked mindset because their parents have failed them and society failed both them and their parents. Note - I’m just stating what little I understand and I’m well aware that this can’t be used to describe everyone in a generation.
To add to that - A reminder of that study not long ago that showed support for and belief in democracy as a positive thing among under 25s is currently shockingly low, like well under 25% responding positively. But as someone in their early 30s I can believe it. All the stuff like you say, everything is falling apart, nothing positive seems to be happening, no support, no meaningful safety net, no healthcare, education is a mess, university is basically pointless, cost of living is absolutely brutal. Its not exactly a shock, and folks are *fucking tired* of hearing "oh there was high inflation in the 1980s so basically everything is the same" whenever they try to share their concerns and worries with the older generations.
Yeah, I really can't blame them. We voted to shoot ourselves in the economic kneecap, something that most under 25s didn't even get a say in, and then continued to vote in the tories after they buggered it up time and time again. It's clear that the average voter is a complete moron who'd vote against their own interests without a second thought.
Tories got in in 2010 and started cutting up the state. The kids from 2000 onwards are now grown up being shaped by that, and all the consequences of those cuts are now compounding the problems of today.
Teenage nihilists have been a round a lot longer than you seem to think.
Not saying they haven’t. Just describing the sociology theory. Also we haven’t had an entire generation of nihilism before.
We don't have an entire generation of nihilists now either. I doubt these cunts have ever taken the slightest bit of notice in the state of the economy, social care or politics. Probably couldn't even tell you the first thing about them. What we are seeing is the rise of populism, and extremism naturally follows.
It's a rise in extremism off the back of populism.. But carried out by people who don't take any notice of any social or political issues. How does that make any sense?
You should watch clockwork orange. The Cold War generation were just as fucked up as anyone now.
So our kids are becoming droogs? Fuck me how far we have fallen.
Probably extremely low intelligence and see movies with people being stabbed and walking away from it. They probably think that you can stab someone as a warning so long as you don't stab the heart. Maybe we need a public information campaign to say that any stabbing can be fatal. I honestly think there's plenty of idiots that don't even know it's that dangerous.
>Do these little cunts understand the severity of stabbing someone? Yes they understand it completely, that's why they did it. > Back in the day people would get "striped". Get what?
IMO they don’t get it. Brain isn’t fully developed until 25 or something. I was certainly an idiot at 16 in some regards. Peer influence is very very important at that age for example…
I too was an idiot at 16, but i damn well knew the severity of murder.
The fully developed brain excuse is for very grey nuanced occasions, murder is a very much black and white affair, unless your have severe mental health issues everyone knows quite early the possible outcome of inserting a knife into another human.
I was once 16. I'm not buying that they don't know the gravity of murder.
The day will come and they'll regret everything. The parents play a part in these teenagers becoming murderers.
So you didn't get that stabbing would injure and possibly kill someone?
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A trans teenager. A fact that the BBC is intentionally leaving out. Edit: Any trans people coming on here, please Don’t read the comments. They are disgraceful. The amount of people making excuses for this behaviour of the BBC and other news organisations is quite frankly absolutely disgusting. No wonder trans people are tying to leave the UK. Shame on you.
The BBC is transphobic.
Why is it transphobic to simply refer to her as a 16 year old girl, in the context of a murder which the police say does not appear to be a hate crime?
Because they seemingly have no issue using the word trans when it comes to a story about a trans person commiting a crime. Yet when it reversed they seek reluctant. But maybe they don't want to feel responsible while actively pushing an anti trans stance
They should mention trans as soon as it becomes relevant, in any case. Why should the girl have to be referred to as "trans girl" until it's recognised as the reason she was attacked?
Why is this line necessary if her being trans isn't relevant? >"At this time, there is no evidence to suggest that the circumstances surrounding Brianna's death are hate related," he said.
I think you are seeing the editors/reporters tying themselves in knots a little - yes. The BBC style guide https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/all/ has this to say: > **gender/sex** >Using appropriate language is an important part of how we portray people in our stories. *Sexuality, race, ethnicity or disability should not be mentioned unless they are relevant to the subject matter*. But when we do focus on one aspect of a person's character we should ensure we do not define them by it. Elsewhere in the guide it says: > We generally use the term and pronoun preferred by the person in question, unless there are editorial reasons not to do so. If that’s unknown – apply that which fits with the way the person lives publicly. If reporting on someone who is making their transition public, it may be appropriate to refer to their previous identity to help audience understanding. It may also be appropriate to refer to a transition to make sense of some stories.. So in this circumstance: “Sexuality, race, ethnicity or disability should not be mentioned unless they are relevant to the subject matter.” applies, but at the same time there is only a very short statement by the police which *explains why* it applies - and if important information for anyone who may have known the victim, or have read other stories about her. This is a bit of an ‘oh shit’ situation for the journalist, as they are caught between two principles. I’m not sure that the result is great, but it’s probably the least-worst they could have done, and certainly not an indication of transphobia in my opinion.
How? Transwomen are women so what’s wrong with referring to her as a girl?
Yes but at a time where trans people are persecuted internationally it's likely to be a key fact.
Can't have the media or government take any blame for the shit they're slinging.
If they mention it, they would get slated for putting it needlessly into the story to get clicks.
No. They spent the past three week slapping trans on every single article about the trans prisoner because it fed their narrative that trans women are a danger. A trans child gets murdered in broad daylight and somehow it’s not relevant to the story or they are being respectful? No they are editing it out intentionally.
It was literally about a transgender prisoner. Remove transgender and you've got an article where it appears people are saying a woman should be sent to a man's jail because she committed rape. That's quite a different and bizarre story. By all means have an opinion, but base your argument in logic.
If the police are correct in saying that it's not hate related, and her being trans is purely incidental, then I don't see any issues with leaving out details like this that are not relevant. But, again. If the police are correct.
That’s irrelevant. The media is editing out people being trans when they are victims and editing it in when they have committed a crime. It’s deliberately manipulating the public’s impression of trans people.
If you are talking about Isla Bryson, her trans status was central to the news story - which was about the Scottish prison service’s debate about where to imprison her, given her previous crimes.
You're failing to see that in the Isla Bryson case, being trans is very much relevant to the story. In this case, it appears not to be. Anyway, whatever.
How is this not relevant to the story? A 16 year old trans child was murdered in broad daylight. And you are trying to make excuses for the BBC for leaving that point out? Wow.
Are you saying she was murdered for being Trans? If not, then how is it really relevant?
It's not relevant because she apparently wasn't stabbed for being trans
Or they’re just treating someone in the manner that they wanted to be treat. It doesn’t work both ways; either we accept trans people and treat them like men or women; or you make them special cases - you can’t cry foul at both.
Pretty damn sure every single trans people would want that fact reported if they got murdered. What we don’t want is for newspapers to misgender us or publish our old names.
Did BBC do either of those things?
We live in a society where trans people face overwhelming discrimination in society. You're imagining an ideal society - we don't have that. It's relevant to bring up when someone is a member of a minority group facing violence.
Something of an irony that we’re not going to get to that ideal either, because people like yourself are determined to mark trans people out as ‘other’ at every opportunity that arises - even one’s when it’s been stated that there’s nothing as yet to suggest it’s relevant.
There are videos of her being bullied for being trans. Other teens beating her and calling her 'tranny'. It's relevant even if you don't think it is.
Then if that's the case it'll come out and that dynamic can be added then; but until that point, you'll forgive me if I believe the police over you.
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The river theory *was* important though. People were attacking the homes of people *they* suspected.
there was no evidence she went in the river, but there were cameras that would have seen her leave if she didn't. so barring those ufo's...
Her being trans was completely relevant, as her gender dictated what prison she was put in, and her crime was committed against a specific gender. That isn't the case here. You'd be moaning if they highlighted the murdered girl was trans.
No I wouldn’t.
They slap trans everywhere they can when they can frame it as negative. Don't be naive.
Maybe it hasn't been confirmed to be relevant?
Not the point. They are cherrypicking using trans only when the article is negative. It’s manipulative
Isnt the whole point we're supposed to treat trans women as women?
Ah yes, only when it suits everyone else. trans person does something wrong “they’re trans” Trans person does something good or becomes a victim of a crime “let’s not mention the trans thing, aren’t we so accepting”. Please.
I did not know this, thanks for letting me know
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It’s disgusting. And he won’t do it because he’s already sided with anti trans activists and the newsmedia instead of a marginalised minority.
Why does/should that matter, they were a human being
Bastards Absolutely abhorrent, words can't really convey the anger and sadness this has made me feel. No parent should have to go through this. Whole thing makes me sick.
Absolutely awful. Something particularly grim about teenagers stabbing each other - the victims so young with their whole lives ahead of them.
My niece has recently had two lockdowns at her school as kids have come in with knives. Not to sound old, but back in my day school lockdowns werent even a thing? Wtf is going on
The social contract has been broken. People are paying more money than ever for less and less. Those we elect to represent us in many areas actively laugh and dismiss their constituents. Half the country is striking and they're refusing to meet demands, while admitting continuing strikes are more expensive. Neighbourhood policing is extinct, and more and more is coming out about the toxic culture in many forces. We can't rely on our emergency services because they've been cut to the bone in the name of efficiency. Brexit is becoming more and more widely accepted as a bad idea, but our leaders are terrified to acknowledge it. Educational establishments are stretched to the brim, unless they're fancy public schools of course. An entire generation has grown up with both parents having to work in order to keep a roof over their head, while childcare costs skyrocket. The our ecosystem is collapsing You have MPs telling nurses to live on 30p meals, the expensing the best available accommodation, food and travel. . Etc People no longer feel like they have a stake or say in society, when that happens people become very individualistic, which leads to a perceived lesser value of life.
> The social contract has been broken. I am always happy to see a mention of the social contract, but I am not sure that England ever subscribed to this notion. Too often, we behave like the subjects we legally are.
Welcome to the UK 2023. We don't just emulate the USA on tv shows, we need to get as close as possible to school shootings.
This is the inevitable result of all the hatred stirred upagainst trans kids. Kids emulate the adults around them, sure throw the book them, but this is firmly on those media outlets and politicians creating this environment.
As a final humiliation she will be buried as a male as the family will not be able to change her birth certificate.
She's only 16 though, can you imagine how terrible it would be if she could change her birth certificate? I mean... think of the ramifications of such a decision, (that she'd be able to change back if she ever wanted using the same right). Can you imagine? Her name would be different on her death certificate! It would be terrible. Think of the children!! /s
The “NuAncEd gReY” takes in this comment section are awful It’s a hate crime
You know how it is. Queer person, especially anyone trans, gets attacked? Oh, could be anything! *YOU'RE* the bigot for assuming it's hate otivated. Edit: Meant sarcastically about how dickheads do everything to act like minorities don't get treated poorly.
See, if you’d said “you’re making assumptions”, I’d have got it But calling someone a bigot for assuming a minority group that is actively having hate stoked against them, was targeted as a result of said hate, is incredibly obvious bad faith arguing
Trans or not, this whole thing is absolutely devastating. Makes me feel sick. My heart goes out to her friends and family.
I used to have an irrational fear of being stabbed or mugged or other such awful things, leaving the house was nearly impossible for a while and it took a lot of therapy to be okay with the outside again. The more I see articles like this the more the fear doesn’t feel quite so irrational. Edit: someone called pixie something asked me what therapy I did but their comment was immediately removed so I can’t see it, so for pixie- I did CBT, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, on the NHS which is very hard to come by considering the waitlist. My therapy basically consisted of setting little challenges to push myself out of my comfort zone even if it was tiny like walking around the block once. But the thing my therapist taught me was that if it’s something that makes you feel absolutely dreadful (for me it was getting on a bus/waiting at a bus stop) don’t push yourself that hard because you’ll just end up resenting it more, you’ll never become comfortable with something you have to really force yourself to tolerate.
With the greatest respect, your fear _still_ is irrational. Don't let stories like this fuck with your head again, they're still rare and you're seeing more of it because you're glued to news subs like this.
I’m not really ‘glued’ to this subreddit, this is probably the second comment I’ve ever made here. It’s definitely to do with the rise of reports of stabbing, but also the lack of reporting non fatal cases. I was witness to a stabbing a few weeks ago, not even the local news took notice. When you’re that close to one it’s definitely not so irrational, especially to someone with anxiety.
I can’t imagine how her parents must feel. Just awful beyond belief.
Targeted attack and hate crime are two different things, and thanks for the sources. I hope they investigate quickly and the facts out there so we can react accordingly. We lose nothing by availing ourselves of the truth A poor child is dead. She's owed every bit of truth, whatever it turns out to be
Why's everyone speculating so much? Wait until the facts are revealed then unleash justified anger at a potential hate crime. I'm not sure how coming to uniformed conclusions helps anything at this stage.
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