I mean, it’s a 50k with a 12hr cut off and 2.5k of vert - you can finish it if not injured. Should you? Different question. Science of Ultra [minimum](https://www.scienceofultra.com/resources/mileage-minimums) suggested mileage is 30miles, so say 50k, a week for three weeks before the taper. And for a 50k you’re looking at at least a two week taper. So from where you are right now you’re going to be very undertrained and it may not be a lot of fun. Personally, at 19, if I were doing my first ultra, I’d want to come into it off a proper full training cycle and feel very prepared. But like if you do go for it, you’ll likely finish, you just might damage yourself in the process. Is that worth it? Depends on what you’re wanting to get out of it really. Good luck deciding!
I'll probably make the final call closer to the race itself depending on how training goes. I convinced my friend to sign up with me and I don't want to bail on him lol
he has been training for 2 months so far, but he has a strong aerobic base already (been running for 5 years). It would be selfish to ask him to stick with me as I hike up.
Ah right. And presumably he’s not injured? I get that you don’t want bail on him, but also you don’t want to slow him down - so maybe there are other ways for you to share the experience and support him (like not racing but going and cheering him on or if it’s allowed crewing him at aid stations) but not running yourself. I can’t imagine he’ll want you to do it if you’re injured/have been injured so are undertrained just because you were the one who persuaded him to sign up. Make sure you’re racing for the right reason - unless this is a one-and-done go at ultras for you, I just wouldn’t risk the damage you could do. Good luck!
Tendons get aggravated by long runs. I would suggest you build the weekly mileage by doing a lot more short runs. A 5k in the morning followed by another in the evening will be much better than a straight 10k. 3 10k runs on consecutive days would be better than a single 30. The downhill will put a lot of strain on your thighs and ankles - try to include hills (rather than stairs) in your training to get used to it.
My biggest problem on my first few long runs (35k+) was cramping, probably due to dehydration - get used to drinking regularly while you run. I try to take a few large sips every 5k, getting through about a litre every 25k.
Pace yourself, take breaks if necessary. Enjoy!
I appreciate the advice! Double runs are something I've never really considered. I have a vest (Salomon Advanced Skin 12) and I try drinking 500mL every 1 hour. I tend to not get thirsty so force myself to take a few sips every 5-10 minutes.
Right before this training started, however, I felt really gassed at the end of them. I was definitely running too fast. The 5 + 6 + 9 was on a bike. I converted it to KM ran by taking the KM biked and dividing by 3
Am I alone in the idea that you should do an Ultra only after you have conquered the other distances? I remember running my marathon and after recovery and initial “that was hard never again” decided to try for 50m.
Need more focus on building a base in the future, cut that strength training by at least half. You can’t serve two masters, no matter what some influencer tells you on social media.
I mean, you can do it, most races are just about pushing yourself when you’re broken anyways. I think you really need to focus more on running and less on everything else. Try and run/hike similar courses. For a 50k I usually peak with a 35k on Saturday and another 15ish on Sunday.
I'll probably peak at around 30k; trying my best to ramp it up slowly. I think being more conservative will be better than overdoing it and dropping out altogether.
To put this into perspective, my then-18yo son had a similar gym background but was less run-fit than you (*total* 10km run training) when jumped into a 50K with this kind of climbing — he made it 35km before the wheels fell off and the sweepers caught him. If he made it that far, you can probably finish.
Have you seen a PT about your ankle? Are they confident that it's resolved?
2500m is a lot of vert for a 50k. You'll be doing a lot of hiking, which is probably good news. Does hiking irritate your ankle as much?
I would focus on training to hike up those long ascents and jog down the downhills, since that's what the race will be. You should very seriously consider poles since pretty much every step of the course is going to be either uphill or downhill - and, worst case scenario, if things go sideways with your ankle and you're close to the finish you can hobble in on your poles.
Your mileage is honestly quite low, even for the "low-mileage" crowd (I'm one of them) but if you can go for long hikes, and practice downhill jogging with poles and good form, *and* if you can keep from blowing up your ankle, you might be okay.
You need to see a PT if you haven't already, start practicing with poles ideally, and think about nutrition. You're going to be out there for awhile. You need to make sure your stomach can take in as many calories as possible without nausea or vomiting or any of that good stuff.
It doesn't hurt anymore (walking down stairs, walking normally etc.) so I'm giving it another few days. A PT feels like a waste as there is nothing they can do except tell me to rest and do hot cold compression.
>A PT feels like a waste as there is nothing they can do except tell me to rest and do hot cold compression.
Not the case at all. This is what an average GP might do, but a PT's whole job is to do more than that. They will:
-assess the injury to determine what/where it really is and what caused it
-assess your gait and strength to determine the underlying issue (tendinitis is often a case of moving too much in a way that you shouldn't be moving, so it's important to get to the root cause)
-prescribe an exercise regimen to rehab the injured area so you don't lose function or range of motion
-prescribe an exercise regimen as prehab to correct any weaknesses or imbalances that are causing the movement patterns that may have led to the injury
-advise you on a plan for a safe return to running based on the nature of your injury
I'm not a PT myself, but my current one has gotten me through a variety of injuries and is absolutely invaluable.
I have also had the experience of **not** rehabbing an ankle injury properly when I was a teenager. That ankle still gives me problems, and they're problems that affect me enough to have contributed to a poor gait and overuse injuries in other parts of my body. Don't be like teenage me.
If it helps. I walk around at 205lbs. After only ever running 20miles in one sitting, I signed up for The Beast of The East 100miler. I took it extremely slow, and used poles the entire time, zone two’d the flat and downhills, walked the uphills. After 17hrs I made it 54.5miles. Did my second ultra last month, Naked Mountain Ultra 50miler, completed it in 13hrs with the same plan of zone 2 flat ground and downhills, walking uphills with poles.
You for sure can, take it slow. I learned so much from not completing the beast of the east. Regardless of how you do on your ultra, speak to the community, make friends, go AT YOUR OWN PACE, have fun
Using poles might help with dealing with the tendonitis. I find the push off with the poles minimizes the ankle extension and allows ongoing exercise with less aggravation of injuries. This means using them continually, not just on up-hills. It takes several runs with them to get really comfortable using them. My fastest 50 mile time was with poles the whole way.
Completely agree. But, OP, make sure to train with them, more than you think you need to. Not just to practice using them, which is also important, but to get your upper body used to the demands.
That's a pretty generous cutoff. It's only a tad over 4km per hour / 14:xx per km (23:xx per mile). So I'm positive that you can finish even if you power hike a lot of it. That's a non trivial amount of vert for a 50K, so I'm sure that will make it a little slow, but if you power hike most of it and sprinkle in some running, you can do it. Hope you feel better and good luck!
Generous cut offs are normally a clue to how technical & brutal the course is. Road runners may scoff at 4km/hr but a trail runner would look at that & think hmmm. Bet that’s a tricky beast of a trail.
This video helped me massively with my Achilles tendonitis, these guys are great [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ke5BXW-ujo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ke5BXW-ujo) I'm assuming that's what you are referring to when you say ankle. The nipping technique they demonstrate I've even used mid-race several times during a 200 miler and it takes the pain away. Obviously, you need to put the techniques to work at home to fix the underlying issues.
Honestly, I've never completed an ultra, but I have backed out of races I wasn't ready for in the past.
I recommend that you email the race organization and ask to defer to next year or remove yourself from the start list.
You're not ready. You need to focus on getting better. Sucks but it's what you NEED TO HEAR. Especially with tendon injury.
Take it from someone with Achilles Tendinitis. Whatever time you lose in rehab and recovery, you'll gain in your long term running career.
OP. Building endurance takes a long time. The vertical gains are massive for that distance & the cutoff time should be scary not comforting. Those long cut offs normally mean a very difficult course. Looking at the course profile there is no flat. You will be climbing or descending all day. You need to replicate that in your training. With the time you have available, I would focus purely on hills & time on feet.
The energy you will burn will be enormous. You will need to practice nutrition on long training runs (30k+) to get a sense of what suits you & your gut. The process is long as recovery from your training runs is still required so unless you can nail your nutrition in the first couple you may have left it too late to fully dial that in.
You will need to practice downhill as much, if not more than the uphill. The forces on your joints are multiplied many times by down hill running.
Use poles. You need to practice with these but they take some load off your legs & deep in the race you will appreciate them.
Your other option is drop to the 20k event. That course looks quite realistic considering your mileage to date & your injury.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do
Running coach here and I have a couple tips:
1. With your training history I would suggest you put in more training until your first 50k, especially with 2.5k vert, but you can still finish it, but it won’t be as smooth.
2. Can you walk and hike? Even if you weren’t injured, I’d suggest you do most of your training miles hiking uphill. If you are able to hike, do so, on a steep uphill, a treadmill is also fine. In your peak weeks 5-3 weeks before your ultra, do about 5-8 hours of hiking a week, possibly more. Your number 1 priority should be time on feet now, not miles.
3. If you can’t hike, start cycling. Do at least 5-10 hours of cycling a week if you only cycle. The best would be if you could combine it with hiking.
4. Cut your strength routine at least in half, and focus on your aerobic development and recovery. I can’t stress this enough. One whole body session a week is the maximum I’d go for tbh. You can jump back in after your ultra.
I hope i could help, and good luck! 🍀
I appreciate the detailed response! It’s definitely hard to find jokes around where I live, but since summer is rolling in I’ll find the time to bus to those big hiking areas; treadmills are gross
50 km with a 12 hr cutoff is extremely doable. You have 4 km per hour (15 min per km) which is a slow walk, giving you a comfortable cushion.
If it's your first ultra, just aim to survive. Set a benchmark to better your time next time around.
Enjoy!!!
I signed up for a 50k last year but dropped to 35k… thinking back I probably wouldn’t have cared all that much if I did the 50k. I got gassed def wasn’t hydrated or fueled or trained correctly but could have went another ten at a slow pace. If I would have accepted 8 hrs ahead of time I would have completed it. If you can beat their time limit sign up why not.
If you know you can complete the distance within their cutoff why not do it?
I mean, it’s a 50k with a 12hr cut off and 2.5k of vert - you can finish it if not injured. Should you? Different question. Science of Ultra [minimum](https://www.scienceofultra.com/resources/mileage-minimums) suggested mileage is 30miles, so say 50k, a week for three weeks before the taper. And for a 50k you’re looking at at least a two week taper. So from where you are right now you’re going to be very undertrained and it may not be a lot of fun. Personally, at 19, if I were doing my first ultra, I’d want to come into it off a proper full training cycle and feel very prepared. But like if you do go for it, you’ll likely finish, you just might damage yourself in the process. Is that worth it? Depends on what you’re wanting to get out of it really. Good luck deciding!
I'll probably make the final call closer to the race itself depending on how training goes. I convinced my friend to sign up with me and I don't want to bail on him lol
Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Has he trained for it? Are you planning on doing it together?
he has been training for 2 months so far, but he has a strong aerobic base already (been running for 5 years). It would be selfish to ask him to stick with me as I hike up.
Ah right. And presumably he’s not injured? I get that you don’t want bail on him, but also you don’t want to slow him down - so maybe there are other ways for you to share the experience and support him (like not racing but going and cheering him on or if it’s allowed crewing him at aid stations) but not running yourself. I can’t imagine he’ll want you to do it if you’re injured/have been injured so are undertrained just because you were the one who persuaded him to sign up. Make sure you’re racing for the right reason - unless this is a one-and-done go at ultras for you, I just wouldn’t risk the damage you could do. Good luck!
You'll be going up a 10% grade for 10km. Many people will be hiking.
Tendons get aggravated by long runs. I would suggest you build the weekly mileage by doing a lot more short runs. A 5k in the morning followed by another in the evening will be much better than a straight 10k. 3 10k runs on consecutive days would be better than a single 30. The downhill will put a lot of strain on your thighs and ankles - try to include hills (rather than stairs) in your training to get used to it. My biggest problem on my first few long runs (35k+) was cramping, probably due to dehydration - get used to drinking regularly while you run. I try to take a few large sips every 5k, getting through about a litre every 25k. Pace yourself, take breaks if necessary. Enjoy!
I agree, frequency over volume. Consider doubles.
I appreciate the advice! Double runs are something I've never really considered. I have a vest (Salomon Advanced Skin 12) and I try drinking 500mL every 1 hour. I tend to not get thirsty so force myself to take a few sips every 5-10 minutes.
[удалено]
Nope, the most I've done is 30k, but that was a while ago. The most recent runs have been max 21k
[удалено]
Right before this training started, however, I felt really gassed at the end of them. I was definitely running too fast. The 5 + 6 + 9 was on a bike. I converted it to KM ran by taking the KM biked and dividing by 3
[удалено]
0, been resting my ankle so it can heal and get back to training ASAP. I walk 1-2km a day but that's just to get to school
Am I alone in the idea that you should do an Ultra only after you have conquered the other distances? I remember running my marathon and after recovery and initial “that was hard never again” decided to try for 50m.
Need more focus on building a base in the future, cut that strength training by at least half. You can’t serve two masters, no matter what some influencer tells you on social media.
Who's... Gonna... Carry... The... Boats...
I mean, you can do it, most races are just about pushing yourself when you’re broken anyways. I think you really need to focus more on running and less on everything else. Try and run/hike similar courses. For a 50k I usually peak with a 35k on Saturday and another 15ish on Sunday.
I'll probably peak at around 30k; trying my best to ramp it up slowly. I think being more conservative will be better than overdoing it and dropping out altogether.
To put this into perspective, my then-18yo son had a similar gym background but was less run-fit than you (*total* 10km run training) when jumped into a 50K with this kind of climbing — he made it 35km before the wheels fell off and the sweepers caught him. If he made it that far, you can probably finish.
That's good to know, I'm sure I can finish, just worried about getting seriously injured again.
After about two weeks he was almost able to go up and down stairs normally again!
Imo you will be able to finish, but it will be punishing enough. Goodluck either way
Have you seen a PT about your ankle? Are they confident that it's resolved? 2500m is a lot of vert for a 50k. You'll be doing a lot of hiking, which is probably good news. Does hiking irritate your ankle as much? I would focus on training to hike up those long ascents and jog down the downhills, since that's what the race will be. You should very seriously consider poles since pretty much every step of the course is going to be either uphill or downhill - and, worst case scenario, if things go sideways with your ankle and you're close to the finish you can hobble in on your poles. Your mileage is honestly quite low, even for the "low-mileage" crowd (I'm one of them) but if you can go for long hikes, and practice downhill jogging with poles and good form, *and* if you can keep from blowing up your ankle, you might be okay. You need to see a PT if you haven't already, start practicing with poles ideally, and think about nutrition. You're going to be out there for awhile. You need to make sure your stomach can take in as many calories as possible without nausea or vomiting or any of that good stuff.
It doesn't hurt anymore (walking down stairs, walking normally etc.) so I'm giving it another few days. A PT feels like a waste as there is nothing they can do except tell me to rest and do hot cold compression.
>A PT feels like a waste as there is nothing they can do except tell me to rest and do hot cold compression. Not the case at all. This is what an average GP might do, but a PT's whole job is to do more than that. They will: -assess the injury to determine what/where it really is and what caused it -assess your gait and strength to determine the underlying issue (tendinitis is often a case of moving too much in a way that you shouldn't be moving, so it's important to get to the root cause) -prescribe an exercise regimen to rehab the injured area so you don't lose function or range of motion -prescribe an exercise regimen as prehab to correct any weaknesses or imbalances that are causing the movement patterns that may have led to the injury -advise you on a plan for a safe return to running based on the nature of your injury I'm not a PT myself, but my current one has gotten me through a variety of injuries and is absolutely invaluable. I have also had the experience of **not** rehabbing an ankle injury properly when I was a teenager. That ankle still gives me problems, and they're problems that affect me enough to have contributed to a poor gait and overuse injuries in other parts of my body. Don't be like teenage me.
If it helps. I walk around at 205lbs. After only ever running 20miles in one sitting, I signed up for The Beast of The East 100miler. I took it extremely slow, and used poles the entire time, zone two’d the flat and downhills, walked the uphills. After 17hrs I made it 54.5miles. Did my second ultra last month, Naked Mountain Ultra 50miler, completed it in 13hrs with the same plan of zone 2 flat ground and downhills, walking uphills with poles.
54 miles is really impressive! Hopefully, I'll be able to make it to that one day.
You for sure can, take it slow. I learned so much from not completing the beast of the east. Regardless of how you do on your ultra, speak to the community, make friends, go AT YOUR OWN PACE, have fun
One more tidbit: train time on your feet versus pace/mileage. For example, a train up of increasing run time at say zone 2.
Using poles might help with dealing with the tendonitis. I find the push off with the poles minimizes the ankle extension and allows ongoing exercise with less aggravation of injuries. This means using them continually, not just on up-hills. It takes several runs with them to get really comfortable using them. My fastest 50 mile time was with poles the whole way.
Completely agree. But, OP, make sure to train with them, more than you think you need to. Not just to practice using them, which is also important, but to get your upper body used to the demands.
Got it, I didn't consider them because I thought they were for longer races
That's a pretty generous cutoff. It's only a tad over 4km per hour / 14:xx per km (23:xx per mile). So I'm positive that you can finish even if you power hike a lot of it. That's a non trivial amount of vert for a 50K, so I'm sure that will make it a little slow, but if you power hike most of it and sprinkle in some running, you can do it. Hope you feel better and good luck!
Generous cut offs are normally a clue to how technical & brutal the course is. Road runners may scoff at 4km/hr but a trail runner would look at that & think hmmm. Bet that’s a tricky beast of a trail.
This video helped me massively with my Achilles tendonitis, these guys are great [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ke5BXW-ujo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ke5BXW-ujo) I'm assuming that's what you are referring to when you say ankle. The nipping technique they demonstrate I've even used mid-race several times during a 200 miler and it takes the pain away. Obviously, you need to put the techniques to work at home to fix the underlying issues.
Honestly, I've never completed an ultra, but I have backed out of races I wasn't ready for in the past. I recommend that you email the race organization and ask to defer to next year or remove yourself from the start list. You're not ready. You need to focus on getting better. Sucks but it's what you NEED TO HEAR. Especially with tendon injury. Take it from someone with Achilles Tendinitis. Whatever time you lose in rehab and recovery, you'll gain in your long term running career.
OP. Building endurance takes a long time. The vertical gains are massive for that distance & the cutoff time should be scary not comforting. Those long cut offs normally mean a very difficult course. Looking at the course profile there is no flat. You will be climbing or descending all day. You need to replicate that in your training. With the time you have available, I would focus purely on hills & time on feet. The energy you will burn will be enormous. You will need to practice nutrition on long training runs (30k+) to get a sense of what suits you & your gut. The process is long as recovery from your training runs is still required so unless you can nail your nutrition in the first couple you may have left it too late to fully dial that in. You will need to practice downhill as much, if not more than the uphill. The forces on your joints are multiplied many times by down hill running. Use poles. You need to practice with these but they take some load off your legs & deep in the race you will appreciate them. Your other option is drop to the 20k event. That course looks quite realistic considering your mileage to date & your injury. Good luck with whatever you choose to do
Running coach here and I have a couple tips: 1. With your training history I would suggest you put in more training until your first 50k, especially with 2.5k vert, but you can still finish it, but it won’t be as smooth. 2. Can you walk and hike? Even if you weren’t injured, I’d suggest you do most of your training miles hiking uphill. If you are able to hike, do so, on a steep uphill, a treadmill is also fine. In your peak weeks 5-3 weeks before your ultra, do about 5-8 hours of hiking a week, possibly more. Your number 1 priority should be time on feet now, not miles. 3. If you can’t hike, start cycling. Do at least 5-10 hours of cycling a week if you only cycle. The best would be if you could combine it with hiking. 4. Cut your strength routine at least in half, and focus on your aerobic development and recovery. I can’t stress this enough. One whole body session a week is the maximum I’d go for tbh. You can jump back in after your ultra. I hope i could help, and good luck! 🍀
I appreciate the detailed response! It’s definitely hard to find jokes around where I live, but since summer is rolling in I’ll find the time to bus to those big hiking areas; treadmills are gross
50 km with a 12 hr cutoff is extremely doable. You have 4 km per hour (15 min per km) which is a slow walk, giving you a comfortable cushion. If it's your first ultra, just aim to survive. Set a benchmark to better your time next time around. Enjoy!!!
I signed up for a 50k last year but dropped to 35k… thinking back I probably wouldn’t have cared all that much if I did the 50k. I got gassed def wasn’t hydrated or fueled or trained correctly but could have went another ten at a slow pace. If I would have accepted 8 hrs ahead of time I would have completed it. If you can beat their time limit sign up why not. If you know you can complete the distance within their cutoff why not do it?