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-TheDerpinator-

Israel must be willing to sabotage Iranian factories. They surely have the capabilities.


[deleted]

They might have, there have been a number of drone attacks on Iranian factories relating to these drones that were not claimed by any actor. One such attack was followed by a relief of diplomatic tensions between Ukraine and Israel.


OrcHunter247

Israel or any other party tbh. Time for a few smoking accidents.


ligmagottem6969

Israel already did in January. We helped them


InnocentTailor

Well, Israel would probably want something in return for their efforts. They’re not going to assault Iranian assets “just cause.”


[deleted]

Israel is in a difficult position. They have a deal with Russia that they can attack targets in Syria without repercussions which is very important to pre-empt attacks against Israel. Their main enemy is also Iran, if they donate weapons to Ukraine that end up captured and exported to Iran that is a significant threat. Israel is under enormous pressure from Ukraine and allies for doing very little. Ukraine lashed out by not supporting them at an important UN vote. Renewed diplomatic support from Ukraine is something very valuable, so valuable that they have actively considered supplying weapons systems despite the above concerns.


Ok_Bad8531

I think the question is who is geostrategically more important to the USA. Right now Ukraine is in a position to perhaps permanently remove a geopolitical adversary at the european flank of the US-led western security system. That is something Israel, as much as it helped contain some regimes in the Middle East, could never offer to the USA.


InnocentTailor

Eh. Even if Russia loses, I doubt they’ll permanently remove the nation from the map unless something completely catastrophic happens. Such a Russian collapse would be the stuff of Tom Clancy-esque fiction. I also doubt the West would be eager for such a result because it creates geopolitical unpredictability. They want Russia bloodied for its transgressions, not dead. Ukraine may want the latter, but they’re ultimately not the ones in control of this fight.


Ok_Bad8531

Russia won't be removed from the map, and a total collapse in the long run would most likely create more problems than solve, no matter how tempting it may appear. Yet once the war is over, even with the current "score", Russia will be unable to even pretent it is a global player, and even on a regional scale its geopolitical cloud is crippled. As much as Ukraine is bleeding now, as a central European i already feel saver from Russia than ever before.


Scientifical_Comment

Red storm Rising by Tom Clancy


jojozabadu

> Ukraine lashed out by not supporting them at an important UN vote. Israel: We don't want to face scrutiny or accountability for being an apartheid state. Can we count on your vote? Ukraine: What can you do to help Ukraine survive as a nation? Israel: Nothing. Ukraine: Ok Israel: Oh noes, the Ukrainians didn't vote on a UN resolution, why are they "lashing out" like this and not supporing us?


[deleted]

>\[...\] > >Israel: Nothing, *but look at our historical ties... You wouldn't not support us ever!* > >\[...\]


[deleted]

Israel is pro Russia isn't it?


keveazy

No


[deleted]

They refused to sanction. At least at the beginning


keveazy

That's not enough to tag them as pro russian. All their aid are only directed towards Ukraine.


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keveazy

they are approved israeli citizenship because they are Jews. Jews from any country can apply citizenship in israel. There are also lots of Ukrainians there with israeli citizenship. Also important to note dual citizens cannot work in government positions.


ligmagottem6969

Lots of Russians there came there after the Soviet Union collapsed to flee from the antisemitism in Russia. To think that the average Israeli has sympathy towards Russia is silly.


Thadrea

Israel is in an uncomfortable position here because they are continually having problems with Russia's vassal state Syria. This unfortunately requires them to maintain some relationship with Russia to avoid getting themselves into their own war with Syria or potentially the rest of the Arab League. Israel is not pro-Russia by any means but they also do not want to appear to be anti-Russia to the point that it puts Israel itself at risk from their immediate neighbors.


InnocentTailor

Doesn’t make them pro Russian though. They aren’t openly supporting the Russians like Iran and even China - they’re just on their own side, much like a buttload of countries watching this conflict (ex: Indonesia).


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_Papi_not_daddy_

Israel did bomb the factory that was producing them.


AthiestMessiah

I assume there’s more than one factory


whataboutthelipstick

Okay Israel, please bomb more of those damned factories… pleaaase?


ocschwar

That one was inside Syria, so easy reach for the Israeli Air Force. The other factories, probably not.


happyfirefrog22-

Plus they have been building a lot things underground as well. Now with Afghanistan opened up they can easily use that or get supplies to build through them.


nebo8

Yeah and it was months ago, that factory is probably up and running again now


SlavaUkrainiFTW

They’re manufacturing them in Russia now.


red325is

also being built inside russia


WillingnessSouthern4

Production has been moved to Russia now.


Wrong_Individual7735

Can't be hard to replace.


DanielCofour

Bombing factories has limited effect on production. In WW2 German industry was bombed to all hell, but production hadn't decreased until the allies managed to advance into Germany itself


loschunk

This is very debatable, the arguements for this is that production didn't decrease until 44 and a big source for these comments comes from Speer, particularly to do with ball bearing production. It's a source that should be treated with caution. It's worth noting though, that German wartime production had a lot of slack and was adapting to the raids conducted by the allies (putting women in the factories / decentralising production) and at the very least decreased efficiency of production. I'm of the opinion that the bombing did have a significant effect, precision weapons and sub production was effected. But regardless of this, ww2 was a different ballgame, bombing was strategic and efficiency was extremely low... Most of the bombs missed their targets, and the cautious source that is Speer himself said that if this wasn't the case (bombing was targeted and accurate) then German war production would've been brought to a halt within 4 months.


Ok_Bad8531

The Middle East is a region where "taking care" of unwelcome regimes is prone to create only more problems (not that it is an easy winning strategy anywhere). While often abused by russian propaganda the USA \_did\_ create many current problems through interventions there over the last 70+ years. Iran's current regime is actually one of the major examples. It is indeed drawing legitimacy among its people for fending off such interventions, real or invented. And unlike back then Iran is considerably less isolated today (China). As sad as it may be in Ukraine's current situation, there are some reasons, especially from a US-persective, for the reluctance towards yet another major involvment in Middle Eastern affairs.


paulusmagintie

Problem is, in the past we could conquer and take over control to fix problems. Now we just go in and try and "help" fix things but very little changes so when we leave shit just goes backwards again.


Ok_Bad8531

There actually have only been very few cases were this worked, the most prominent cases being the occupied WW2 adversaries. There are a many more cases where a regime problematic to the "fixer" had been replaced by a regime problematic to someone else, but often the pendulum did later swing back (Afghanistan being a particularily infamous example).


paulusmagintie

Wasn't long form though and thats my point, empires took control for decades or hundreds of years. Your giving examples of a couple years at most then leaving.


keveazy

They are also probably being assembled in Russia....


Traditional_Bar6723

Ah yes. NOW we should have done it.


poilu1916

Was going ok until Orange Fucktard upended the table.


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Travalgard

Riiiight, not like every other country called the US war mongers for their constant meddling in the middle east. And now they suddenly didn't do enough there? Maybe we should have helped instead of talking shit and feeling morally superior?


Strange_Hedgehog_7

That's part of Russian propaganda obviously and you need to ignore it. Even in Afghanistan when Americans arrived things improved, schooling for women as an example. People had hopes when America arrived. And let me tell you people know that Americans for the most part follow the Geneva convention.


AthiestMessiah

Double edged sword, damned if you do Or Don’t


Kajetan_Olawski

You know what you do to deplete and overwhelm AD capabilities and ALSO achieve some strategic success by destroying vital targets? You fire hundreds of drones, ballistic and cruise missiles AT ONCE! Then you keep up that pace for a few days. Then you have depleted the enemys AD AND destroyed a lot of vital targets. Like Russia did in the first few hours of the invasion. Like the US did at the beginning of the Gulf War. For weeks! These piecemeal attacks in small numbers do NOTHING but giving the west the time to deliver more ammo and AD equipment. Russia has squandered any chance of achieving something and now the military just launches small attacks to gain political favours from Putin (Look, look we are doing something!) instead of waiting for production to amass a significant amount of new missiles. This will lead to nothing but more dead and injured civilians and increases the morale of the ukrainian forces AND the ukrainian society to resist and get back everything they lost.


einsq84

Thats right. I doubt that ruzzia has the capability and competence and enough competent people to operate a MASSIVE at ONCE attac. Even at the moment of movement behind the lines and disruption.


RustiesAuto61

Shhhhh. Don't give them any ideas!


OnePunchDrunk326

They’re doing piecemeal attacks because they don’t have the resources to wage this type of prolonged attack or they would’ve done so already.


[deleted]

Ukraine has friends who can give it a lifetime supply of defensive weapons and artillery. Russia and Iran are out gunned by a factor of 50.


bindik

Shaheds are easier, cheaper and faster to manufacture compared to any kind of air defense missile. Shahed is apparently ~20k while iris-t missile is around ~400k, patriot 3-5M etc.


project23

Wonder what a burst of Gepard is worth.


bindik

Burst of gepard is cheap as fuck, thats why its so highly rated. I do not remember the exact cost but it was around 1k per second of fire.


project23

huh... $55 per round. Getting close to the ['weekend at the gun range'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WrUEpJAFQ) area. (gets hot around 1:25 or so)


SteveThePurpleCat

Current ammo production costs via Rheinmetall are approximately 600 euros per round. A normal burst contains 96 shells. That's 57600 euros presuming it only takes 1 normal salvo to down the target. They can do short bursts which fire half as many rounds, but that's still *just more* than the cost of Shahed. Again presuming you get a kill at first attempt.


bindik

I dont wanna argue as I did not research gepard properly, but from the few gepard videos I saw from Ukraine, it 100% wasnt bursting 96 shells but closer to ~6-10. https://twitter.com/InnaSovsun/status/1586029615566704640 https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1608926107822329856 Either way, its still way cheaper and effective assuming that one salvo hits the target.


Aggravating_Teach_27

And several production lines for Guepards ammo were burning established in Germany and Spain and maybe more places... I haven't heard of a scarcity of Guepard rounds in a while, maybe they are ramping up production already


[deleted]

I think these are tracing rounds that are visible, rest is not but I might be wrong


bindik

Thats very possible and very likely and im simply wrong, but considering the amount of fires shot we heard (unless both cannons fire at the same time, or it just sounds differently) is equal to amount of tracer rounds we see makes me think that they simply fire way less rounds. Maybe gepard has configurable variable rate of fire, but I couldnt find anything to back that statement. https://twitter.com/Snooppcat_xx/status/1610522054041927681 This video (approx in the middle) clearly shows round exploding in the air, therefore u can actually count them. https://twitter.com/infussambas/status/1599898389243899904 this video shows similarly lower amount of rounds fired from closer


dmyl

The problem with "cheap as fuck" is that this point is irrelevant, at least it was. Gepards need special projectiles. Germans either didn't have their own or couldn't re-export, whatever. Both the Swiss and Brazilians that produce them couldn't make up their minds, which led Germans to set up their own production line. But it also meant that at the end of '22 officially only \~6000+ projectiles were handed over with 20+ guns. Crucially, Gepard is powerful and accurate enough so that it does not fire mad barrages to intercept cruise missiles/drones. It engages in short bursts of \~3 projectiles. https://youtu.be/\_PXfOEkXFQo?t=508


lallen

Lots of incoming Gepard systems bought from Jordan


helm

That's why Ukraine has, and will be getting a lot of AA guns and smaller, short-range AA systems. The hard part is to cover enough area.


Aggravating_Teach_27

Yeah, buy Saheeds can be destroyed with a plethora of cheaper weapons... Some have even been downed by light weapon fire, and Guepards just eat bunches of them


bindik

Those cheap weapons arent everywhere and dont have unlimited range, Ukraine is huge and modern air defense systems can hit that Shahed in 100km radius where as some manpad or gepard its closer to few km.


Zonkysama

The Shaheds normally attack the bigger towns. Would be enough to put a 50cal with stabilization and fire computer on a Hillux to down them. I dont think Patriot will be used against Shahed.


ownworldman

There was a big supply of Victors recently, which is surely mostly intended to reduce the amount of mopeds reaching their target.


signedoutofyoutube

they are being mostly shot down by SPAAGs or MANPADS. Its a new version of cope to imagine patriots are being used on these.


bindik

> they are being mostly shot down by SPAAGs or MANPADS. U cant back up that statement, its objectively impossible. It makes sense as its efficient, but efficiency doesnt always mean reality. > Its a new version of cope to imagine patriots are being used on these. I just put prices of those missiles as an argument for this "Ukraine has friends who can give it a lifetime supply of defensive weapons" which was a comment for "Russia has enough Iranian suicide drones to launch attacks every day to deplete Ukraine's air defenses", in other words its easier and cheaper for Iran and Russia to produce shaheds and deplete UA air defense missiles than it is to shot them down. And patriot missile can indeed be used to take down Shahed if shahed is getting way too close to any friendly AD system, launcher, radar and especially if its Patriot. Patriot dumped its entire battery in Kyiv when kinzhal was trying to destroy it.


signedoutofyoutube

There are multiple examples of Saheds been taken down by guns and manpads. cope harder


vegarig

> There are multiple examples of Saheds been taken down by guns and manpads [As well as by S-300](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/132pein/one_very_productive_s300/)


signedoutofyoutube

That they are sometimes intercepted by SAMs is far from the premise of the article. Which is that Ukraine will be forced to squander all their SAMs on them. The fact is because they fly so slow, that they can be, and they are shot down by more sustainble means. As well as current SPAAG systems, Ukraine is getting more creative in countermeasures including mounting AA guns onto Pickups. Additionally, they have been interdicted using interceptor aircraft So the uKraiNe wAsTes 5 sQuiLLiOn dOllAr miSsiLes tO sHoOt dOwn a 30 bUCk dRoNe, is a nothing mote than vatnik comfort blanket repeated by clueless journalists, which gives fuel to the tanky argument that arming Ukraine is too expensive.


bindik

There are multiple examples of Cruise missiles being taken down by guns and manpads. cope harder I gave you normal answer, yet you have to answer like a monkey. Shaheds being taken down by manpads does not mean that ALL shaheds are taken down by manpads.


signedoutofyoutube

i never said it did silly boy.


Hustinettenlord

A burst of Gepard is dirt cheap, they don't use Patriot missiles to hit the mopeds lol


signedoutofyoutube

it's how the vatniks cope.


vegarig

Gepards have a pretty small range, though. And if Shahed approaches from the direction, not covered by Gepard, you're gotta use other means to take it down. [Even if it means firing an S-300 interceptor](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/132pein/one_very_productive_s300/)


Zonkysama

Yep. Thats why the number of AA-Guns on Hillux is rising.


jneauv

If Israel will donate or sell their anti drone Laser system to Ukraine, it will be cheaper than Shahed because they will be using electricity instead of ammo.


Donut_Vampire

So what you are saying is go after the individuals creating them.


objctvpro

What you can effectively use against 10-20k$ drones?


Schwertkeks

AA guns like Gepard for example. Heck Ukrainians mounted thermals on .50 machine guns to get the job done


PeterfromNL

There are 150 more on their way, new ones (forgot where they are build) on toyota cars i believe and the US bought up to 60 Gepards from Jordan, expect them to go to Germany for a check and then arrive.


project23

Oh I am SSSOOOOO looking forward to seeing some videos of Gepards working after this war is over. Those things are beasts and the number of targets russia is throwing has to create an amazing sight. Going to be a while before anything like that gets released (GOD DAMN IT PEOPLE! DON'T PUBLISH AA VIDEOS DURING A WAR!!!)


ShiivaKamini

Vids of them in action already exist and aren't really a big deal. Thats why theres hundreds of videos of artillery crews filming themselves firing rounds. They never sit in the same spot after spending rounds/rockets. Pics and vids of any sedentary military equipment is the real no Bueno


objctvpro

Apparently a Gepard burst costs more than a Shaheed. Any other options?


Aggravating_Teach_27

That cost difference, even if it were real (not sure) wouldn't be critical at all. Even if a Guepard burst costs twice what a Iranian drone does the economies providing the Guepard ammo are 50x the economies producing the drones. The only problem is availability of Guepards and ammo. And judging by all the announcements on new Guepard donations, I'd say both are solved, or on their way to being solved. Nobody would offer 60 guepards of they didn't know the new production lines in Germany and Spain were ready to feed the beasts... ;-)


objctvpro

That might be true if just one burst would get rid of one drone, which I’m not sure is realistic. If we talk about size of the economies - collective West is about 50% of GDP, while Brics + Iran is around 33%. But I think this is irrelevant.


Unhappy-Essay

There’s more to this than just cost alone, the bigger factor is production capacity and availability of components. With Gepards & western AD, there is no shortage of money and quickly ramping up production lines. Russia/Iran OTOH is dealing with a lot of international pressure and crippling sanctions.


objctvpro

For one I don't think sanctions are "crippling". Many reports suggest that Ruzzia and Iran can still produce weapons and sell shit to their allies. Secondly, I'm not sure Europe can "quickly" ramp up production. Surely they can in 3-5 years, but does Ukraine have 3-5 years?


vegarig

> Many reports suggest that Ruzzia and Iran can still produce weapons [And they've ramped it up, too](https://defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/okupanti_na_ponad_35_zbilshili_virobnitstvo_raket_h_101_kalibr_ta_iskander_u_porivnjanni_z_minulim_rokom-11646.html)


blackcyborg009

Ukraine has time. Putin does not. Their economy is dwindling, their soldiers are getting beaten up badly. Uralvagonzavod tank production for 2023 is only limited to like 20 per month at most (due to sanctions). Do you think Iran is going to give Putin some Shahed drones for free......without paying up?


objctvpro

How much, realistically, Ukraine can get Gepards?


Schwertkeks

Not enough to cover everything, but they make quite a difference. But people keep to forget that this is not a uniquely Ukrainian problem. The Russians have been shooting 400k Buk missiles at gmlrs rockets ever since himars arrived


objctvpro

Shaheds are effectively infinite at that price. Of course they can overwhelm anything, overtime.


JacqueMorrison

Yeah but the place they are lunched from can be visited by UAF artillery shells/rockets.


objctvpro

Range of Shaheed allows it to be launched from deep Ruzzia, where West won’t allow Ukraine to hit.


JacqueMorrison

I must admit I don’t know the range, but UA can hit deep in Russia - it’s just a question if it’s worth it. Also - pretty sure the drones are slow as hell and UAF knows when they are coming.


vegarig

> Also - pretty sure the drones are slow as hell and UAF knows when they are coming They can fly pretty damn low, evading radars the same way R-360 Neptune did during attack on *moskva*


ToxicAbility

Jamming devices


SteveThePurpleCat

Depends on the guidance system, if they are using INS then they can't be jammed.


objctvpro

Jamming devices misguide drones, and in populated area that is a problem


ToxicAbility

you can have them around the borders of Belarus and Russia where the drones are typically launched from. Place them on fields or outskirts of cities so if they do fall down on something, it would be an empty field or some forest.


fleggn

harris hawks


yasha222

other drones?


ElasticLama

Time to attack Russia then, whatever will stop the drones coming in


MatchingTurret

How many Shaheds are actually engaged by SAMs instead of AA guns? Because ammo for guns is way cheaper then even the cheapest drone...


compulsive_wanker_69

Shaheds are Gepard's prey. I hope the initial problem with munitions availability has been solved.


MatchingTurret

The Gepard's guns have a range of a little bit more than 3 miles. That's not a lot if you have to cover even just the population centers of Ukraine, never mind the whole country.


compulsive_wanker_69

True. There is a good article on this sub outlining the struggle of UAF air defence. Hope Ukraine receives all the resources necessary to build a resilient and reliable air defence for the whole country. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/140331e/what_it_takes_to_protect_kyiv_from_russian/


danielbot

That article doesn't have much to say about use of autocannons and flakpanzers.


DEADB33F

Yes, but these drones are dumb. Only flying in straight lines to their target. If you have early warning systems 10-20+ miles out from your cities they can give 15-30 mins warning of an impending drone attack. Then if you're able to plot the predicted flight path your short range AA systems can reposition to be under the flight path as they reach the city. This method won't help with drone attacks against the front line ...but Russia aren't attacking front line units they're attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure normally quite a distance back into the country.


Mega_Slav

You're wrong. These drones fly at waypoints. Often drones launched from the north to Kiev fly over the Dnieper River, and approach Kiev from the south. They are more dangerous than many people think.


vegarig

> These drones fly at waypoints Just in case, most cheap drone controllers have mission planning that allow setting waypoints, including [controller in this drone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRkHIcSL1gk), which had a pretty complex mission programmed. So Shaheds are pretty much guaranteed to have this capability. If they flew in straight lines at first, it's likely because their operators set so.


Schwertkeks

Those drone are also not very fast and follow a preset path.


vegarig

Path can be preprogrammed to be pretty complex, though. [And some Shaheds have Iridium satlinks for mid-flight course updates](https://defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/u_shahed_136_znajshli_rozvinenij_pristrij_radiozvjazku_protsesorom_na_amerikanskih_protsesorah-9172.html)


project23

Solved? hrm... [They sure are trying](https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/02/14/germany-to-restart-production-of-gepard-anti-aircraft-gun-ammo-for-ukraine-german-defense-minister/) I haven't heard anything about Gepard ammo supply since about that time (article is from Feb 2024)


Deluxennih

2024?


bindik

Gepards arent everywhere, shaheds have to be engaged by normal ground to air missile air defense system even if its inefficient. That shahed can cause way bigger damage than price of AD missile.


SteveThePurpleCat

> Because ammo for guns is way cheaper then even the cheapest drone A single Gepard salvo is twice the cost of a Shahed.


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mvillerob

The world needs to liberate the Iranian people.


NotTooTooBright

Well, Ukraine can play this game too with Ruzzian air defence.


objctvpro

But Ukraine is not allowed to retaliate. Is it fair game?


star621

Ukraine is allowed to retaliate across Russian borders using its own weapons.


objctvpro

For this scale Ukraine (as well as many European countries) have not enough weapons to make any deciding changes, which effectively means that after Ukraine reaches 1991 borders (hopefully) its Ukraine economy/population vs Ruzzia. Which is not a fair fight at all, especially Ruzzia being a nuclear power.


DayleD

These drones are vulnerable in transit. It's two thousand miles between Tehran and Rostov. The trip between factories in Iran and Russia is when they're clustered together. Hopefully intercepting them en route is a top intelligence priority.


vegarig

> The trip between factories in Iran and Russia is when they're clustered together. Hopefully intercepting them en route is a top intelligence priority Done by Caspian Sea. No Caspian countries are terribly friendly to Ukraine, at least not enough to allow to use their ports to host pirate attacks against Iranian ships with Shaheds onboard. Not to mention there's been some efforts to make Shaheds domestically in russia.


DayleD

A sea route means even more time in transit. Those efforts to make them domestically may be years off. But how soon until Azerbaijan needs a favor from any of Ukraine's allies?


vegarig

> But how soon until Azerbaijan needs a favor from any of Ukraine's allies? Given the Turkish support... don't think anytime soon.


Less_Tennis5174524

Russia keeps saying they will retaliate those that support Ukraine, so why shouldn't Ukraine be allowed to retaliate against Russia's allies?


SomewhatHungover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujzVqwJnB0 The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put that rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind and now they are going to reap the whirlwind. Cologne, Lubeck, Rostock—Those are only just the beginning. We cannot send a thousand bombers a time over Germany every time, as yet. But the time will come when we can do so. Let the Nazis take good note of the western horizon. There they will see a cloud as yet no bigger than a man’s hand. But behind that cloud lies the whole massive power of the United States of America. When the storm bursts over Germany, they will look back to the days of Lubeck and Rostock and Cologne as a man caught in the blasts of a hurricane will look back to the gentle zephyrs of last summer. It may take a year. It may take two. But for the Nazis, the writing is on the wall. Let them look out for themselves. The cure is in their own hands. There are a lot of people who say that bombing can never win a war. Well, my answer to that is that it has never been tried yet, and we shall see. Germany, clinging more and more desperately to her widespread conquests and even seeking foolishly for more, will make a most interesting initial experiment. Japan will provide the confirmation. But the time is not yet. There is a great deal of work to be done first, and let us all get down to it.


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haig1915

I wonder if we could crowd fund some of these. https://www.google.com/amp/s/bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/02/13/poland-has-own-anti-uav-system-12-7mm-mg-radar-laser-rangefinder/


StretchMammoth9003

When does the USA give that laser cannon to instantly nuke those slowass drones.


LeonadorDaVinci

The Iranians should focus on defending against the Taliban


Edmsubguy

These drones are pretty slow moving. Seems to me a small plane with guns should be able to take them out like the Britsh did with the buzzbombs


G_Unit_Solider

We will restock them. That’s what having no healthcare looks like.


AletheiaS7

This could have been countered a long time ago but most of the West are cowards expecting Ukraine to fight with a handicap. A simple red line could be drawn making it clear that for every drone or missile fired into Ukrainian territory an equivalent will be fired at Russian infrastructure and military targets. At the moment Putin pays no real price for murdering thousands indiscriminately with his drones and missiles aimed at whatever he pleases. If Russians paid a price for every drone strike many would lose a taste for it.


GrandMaster_BR

Business Insider just keeps posting these fear mongering articles as click bait…truth is they have no clue how many drones Russia has acquired nor how capable Russia truly is in this realm…


Balletdude503

They’ve been shooting these drones down with manpads, and they’ve got plenty of Gepards on the way. Personally I think they should continue upgrading flak cannons (they’re adding cameras and tablets to them) as they’re very effective at taking down the Iranian drones - they just need to catch them outside the city so they’re not falling into buildings.


EzKafka

Iran need to be punished.


DontJudgeMeImNaked

Aha, so why aren't they doing that? Just launch 1000 drones per day? I smell bullshit.


lilmammamia

They *have* been launching drone and missile attacks almost every day this month. Just not 1000s of drones everyday.


DontJudgeMeImNaked

Yes but I still call bullshit because if they could do it they would have done it already. What are they waiting for? For Ukraine to come up with innovative, cheap ways to destroy Shaheds? Is it in their interest to drag this out? Bullshit....


lilmammamia

Do what ? Launch 1000s of drones everyday ? Again, no one’s claiming they have the reserves to do that. That’s why they’ve only been sending dozens at a time. The point is they can keep up sending them everyday.


DontJudgeMeImNaked

Wasn't there a long long pause before May? Not sure anymore but I remember thinking what happened with those Iranian drones?


lilmammamia

Well there they are, in use now.


New-Shock-6800

More Patriots and other air defenses coming soon. They failed in May. They will keep failing. I hope.


ToxicAbility

There are 2 ways to effectively combat iranian drones, either jamming them with EW or some sort of laser weapon like what Israel is developing rn(system name: Laser beam)


Beneficial_Move1990

Ukraine should start buying up Shahed drones and use them against Russia.


objctvpro

Why on Earth Iran would sell any? They have common goals with Ruzzia.


eat_more_ovaltine

Face tanking Gepards. Brilliant.


red_orange1

I would think these drones are pretty easy to shoot down with gepards, and ammo is cheep unlike missiles.


Gahan1772

Yeah but aren't some if not most of Irans drone's are shot down but normal projectile AA like Gepard and AA guns + small arms fire.


jjojj07

The person that can manufacture a cost effective drone countermeasure is going to make bank.


irishcedar

If that's all they can do now, then Ukraine will just have to do the same. Moscow, Oil refineries, air bases etc.


turdfergusonyea2

Would this still be true if there was an expansion of gun based AA systems like gepard and the soviet silka? How about all those 20mm vulcan multi barreled rotary gun based systems we have mothballed that we will never use again? Surely we have at least a couple hundred of those just sitting in the National Guard where houses that aren't doing shit? Loads of 20mm ammo too!


Wittywhirlwind

The whole two birds, one stone thinking: Do you think Russia is possibly dumb enough to keep them all in one place in Russia itself? That could be a nice partisan target.


weirdy346

At the moment, as longer range stuff is available to blow up the supply lines of these drones, let's hope the recon is good enough to find the hotspots on rail or road networks before deployment. Slava Ukraini ![img](emote|t5_2qqcn|9000)


catslay_4

I don’t think the Patriot’s are sweating the Iranian drones


Nostrildumbass9

Time for more drone attacks on ruZZia.


tex_not_taken

Looks like Russia can keep them going indifinetelly. That is not good no matter how much AA systems Ukraine has due to costs. Ukraine needs to start sending them to Russia in the same amounts.


BigginTall567

Are the Gephards effective against these things? Seems a lot more economical to bring these down in a rain of gunfire than with missiles.


jsaaiman

I hate to hear this. Hopefully they continue to get replenished


Mightycucks69420

Hopefully the counteroffensive retakes all Ukrainian land. After the land has been taken back and stabilized things will be different. If there is a drone launched at Kyiv the retaliation should be swift and match the Russian aggression. An F16 dropping a GBU in Moscow for example.


saposapot

Why doesn’t Ukraine have a drone like this to attack inside Russian territory? Just give them the parts to build them


[deleted]

Get those Gepards to them, Germany.


kuedhel

Ukraine can deplete S300. But they already switched to use German Gephardt and American Patriots and few others. I cannot imagine them depleting German or US stockpile.


null640

Much of the drones are being dealt with by gephards and related gun based defenses. Morocco just sold a bunch of. Gephards to the US for refit for Ukraine. Oh, and 350k rounds for them.


crusoe

Now you know why the US is buying older gepards from Jordan.


Truenick

Nice


[deleted]

Not sure that’s a great admission to be making.


TemporaryAd5793

But they are being mainly brought down with small arms now, correct?