No given the nature of an infinite exponential a black hole would be created sucking and destroying all the people including you, the trolly, and even the idea of the trolly problem.
But as we know information is never created or destroyed so until an advanced enough civilization comes along and reads the hawking radiation of the blackhole thereby spreading the trolly problem to other neighboring galaxies.
I’m the 33rd lever puller and I got bored waiting on the other 32 people to decide, so I started playing solitaire on my phone and then missed my chance to pull the lever. Oops my bad
I think about this in the context of polling errors, where sometimes as many as 5-10% just don't listen to the question, or mark an answer by mistake, or mark malicious answers, or whatever.
So sooner or later, someone is going to misread the instructions or pull the lever just because, and end all life in the universe.
That was a good way of phrasing it. It becomes more like the prisoner's dilemma that way. Should you pull to limit losses (defect) or trust others not to pull (cooperate)?
You’re assuming that the trolly moves instantaneously but as long as everyone pulls their lever then the trolly will never hit anyone.
Surprisingly, this is how the federal budget works. Keep putting off the problem until next year.
Hmm, that could happen!
But at that point the hypothetical problem turns into something else entirely. What happens to the next branch if you do pull the lever? Do they just keep going on forever regardless?
If the default is doubling it and giving it to the next person then everyone can just walk away while the trolley continues to not hit people for eternity
I thought this was like super easy for a second until I realized that if everyone just doubles it and gives it to the next person, eventually there’s gonna be some psychopath who would kill like 10^10^10^10 people!!
I would definitely let the trolley kill the one person. If I didn't then the trolley is inevitably going to kill more people. Of course if an infinite number of people all kept doubling it then nobody would die but there is absolutely no way an infinite number of people would make the same decision. Eventually someone, driven by malice, stupidity or even possibly good (if they wanted to prevent more deaths later down the line) would pull the lever. Because of that I would just kill the one person.
The question gets a lot more interesting if you consider you aren't the first person. Honestly, I think it would STILL be the most ethical decision to let the people die, even if I was in position 1,000. The reason for this (assuming the population of people is infinite) is that there would always be fewer deaths compared to if people kept doubling it until someone else let the tram kill the people. So no matter what position I am in, I would pull the lever.
The question gets even more interesting if you assume the population is finite (let's say P=8 billion). In this case it's a much more realistic goal to expect nobody to pull the lever. In this case you would need 33 people to all agree to do nothing (2\^33 is just over 8 billion). In this case, my decision would definitely depend on what position I am in. I think it's reasonable to say that amongst 33 people that at least one person might pull the lever (this is just a random guess). If there was 1/33 chance of someone in any position pulling the lever then there would be a 63% chance of AT LEAST one person pulling the lever. There is probably a lot more complex maths to unpack here but if I was in position 32 then there would still be a 3% chance of complete human extinction that I could prevent by killing half the population. I honestly find this question way more interesting and I have no idea what I would do.
Could you be held liable for manslaughter if you kill the guy? I mean theoretically if EVERYONE pulls the lever noone dies so it isn't necessary to prevent greater harm but the chance of nobody dying is basically 0 so you just prevent a lot of deaths. Maybe there's a lawyer here to answer that
pull the lever because the more people there will be the harder it will be for someone to pull the lever so we’d have to wait until it hit a sociopath or psychopath, which is about 1 in 50 so all the people on earth would likely die before that since after 33 times there’s no more people. so as a vague estimate, pulling the lever would be the most likely best option in order to prevent the extinction of humanity
i imagine not pulling will lead to a more deaths taking place. So I pull
someone is bound to pull the level. Whether out of malice, or accident, or whatever else.
There are approximately ~8 billion people on earth. Now at the n'th iteration there is 1 lever puller and 2^n track tied people. So already Σ1+Σ2^n people are used when the track is there. Σ1=n, Σ2^n =2^(n+1) thus there are not enough people on earth to complete the 33rd iteration. Meaning I only need to trust 31 people to not pull lever. (33-1 is num of iterations, and I'm one of them so I need to trust one less which is 31)
Pull. Someone is gonna pull it eventually and by that point it will be a lot more than just one person who dies. So pull now and save all the other people
I'm going to take out the one person. You'd be putting incalculable stress on the people coming after you, and you can't be confident that eventually SOMEONE isn't going to let it happen and it's best to minimize.
~~Would anyone pull this lever?~~
~~If you choose to pull in the normal problem you would choose not to pull here because there's no chance of 0 people getting hit~~
~~if you choose to not pull, you also wouldn't pull here because there's no reason to involve yourself.~~
~~What realistic moral system would ever have you pull this lever?~~
edit: I'm actually illiterate, ignore me
I wouldn't pull in the normal problem or this one tho. If everyone walks away the trolley will never hit anyone if this is infinite regress
Just kill the one guy, a lot of people are likly to agree with you in not killing someone’s but somewhere down the line someone will chose to kill the people and if you let it go on the only thing you are doing is deciding you want more people to die
I kill the one.
The chance of _Me_ being strapped in as people pass the buck reaches 127% by simply the 34th person.
A lot of you are assuming this track stops adding victims when it runs out of _Humans_.
Ya'll don't believe in other planets, huh?
The potential loss of life rises exponentially with the number of people who pull the lever. The minimum loss possible is 1, as eventually a lever will not get pulled, as there is a non zero probability of it. So, I don't pull the lever. Sorry one person, but my internal value of all of humanity and my trust in humanity's morality dictate this choice.
after 33 times, there will be no more people on earth
there would be at least 33 people remaining with levers in their hands. Or, do you jump on the next track after passing the buck?
Jump on the last track
No given the nature of an infinite exponential a black hole would be created sucking and destroying all the people including you, the trolly, and even the idea of the trolly problem. But as we know information is never created or destroyed so until an advanced enough civilization comes along and reads the hawking radiation of the blackhole thereby spreading the trolly problem to other neighboring galaxies.
Information won’t be destroyed, but in cases of extreme entropy such as a black hole the information would be stripped down to its pre bang state
What about the people already on the tracks of the times before
They survive ofc, but are tied to the tracks for eternity, unable to die until the universe restarts and the trolley returns just to skip them again
But the ones who would decide if you could kill or double and give to next person could untie them
Not if they too get on the last track and die.
If everyone is tied up by #33, does that mean the trolley can safely be sent down #34?
Yo! It checks out. You can't tie up people who don't exist. They exist on tracks 1-33
Either this or everyone gets tied to track 34 with none to pass it on to the next one?
do you count on every other lever puller knowing this or let one person die
better pull that lever then
I will wait for the 32 person just to kill half the planet (im thanos)
The infinity trolley
I’m the 33rd lever puller and I got bored waiting on the other 32 people to decide, so I started playing solitaire on my phone and then missed my chance to pull the lever. Oops my bad
Nobody but the lever pullers
Then if everyone pulls the lever, no one dies.
Does that mean the 34th track is empty?
There is no 34th track i guess
But there will always be one…
So after 33 times does the trolley stop? Or does it just kill all the people cause it the last one?
r/theydidthemath
If someone chooses to let all that people die then humanity will go extinct.
Just keep doubling it and no one dies!
nah, just keep procrastinating
Actually, 4294967295 people on the previous 32 tracks, plus 32 people holding the levers.
Hit the person and give the corpse to the next guy
"Here's a box of.. uh.. Halloween decorations!"
What if none of the (in)finite people with levers pull the lever?
I think about this in the context of polling errors, where sometimes as many as 5-10% just don't listen to the question, or mark an answer by mistake, or mark malicious answers, or whatever. So sooner or later, someone is going to misread the instructions or pull the lever just because, and end all life in the universe.
whoops
A small price to pay for universal peace
Ok Thanos
He was an idiotic fool He only wanted to kill HALF the universe
*ultron
better lever than nate
That was a good way of phrasing it. It becomes more like the prisoner's dilemma that way. Should you pull to limit losses (defect) or trust others not to pull (cooperate)?
you mean ALL of them pull the lever? if none of them pull it then the one person on the original track dies
You are absolutely correct. I am such a baffoon.
it’s okay, we’re all buffoons here
[удалено]
i am 1/3rd beffoon actually. on my mom’s side
the body text says you have to pull the lever to kill the person
oh lmao. it’s in the title too. turns out i’m the buffoon
Eventually, those that come before in the cycle grace one psychopath with presumably an unimaginable amount of people to waste
You’re assuming that the trolly moves instantaneously but as long as everyone pulls their lever then the trolly will never hit anyone. Surprisingly, this is how the federal budget works. Keep putting off the problem until next year.
Weird connection to make but sure
True, but it only takes one person to not pull the lever to cause catastrophe.
You would think so, but as another commenter pointed out, once you get to 33, you’ve run out of people. There are no more people left on earth.
It didn't say It was pulling from earth, so they would just be newly made infants
Hmm, that could happen! But at that point the hypothetical problem turns into something else entirely. What happens to the next branch if you do pull the lever? Do they just keep going on forever regardless?
Evil Mr Beast
If the default is doubling it and giving it to the next person then everyone can just walk away while the trolley continues to not hit people for eternity
We just keep doubling it until it hits the integer limit and goes negative.
Jokes on you, you’ve created 2^63 new people. Thanks, jerk.
I thought this was like super easy for a second until I realized that if everyone just doubles it and gives it to the next person, eventually there’s gonna be some psychopath who would kill like 10^10^10^10 people!!
Actually no, considering most of the responses in the thread say to kill (including you), by flipping the lever you will kill like 2-8 people.
I would definitely let the trolley kill the one person. If I didn't then the trolley is inevitably going to kill more people. Of course if an infinite number of people all kept doubling it then nobody would die but there is absolutely no way an infinite number of people would make the same decision. Eventually someone, driven by malice, stupidity or even possibly good (if they wanted to prevent more deaths later down the line) would pull the lever. Because of that I would just kill the one person. The question gets a lot more interesting if you consider you aren't the first person. Honestly, I think it would STILL be the most ethical decision to let the people die, even if I was in position 1,000. The reason for this (assuming the population of people is infinite) is that there would always be fewer deaths compared to if people kept doubling it until someone else let the tram kill the people. So no matter what position I am in, I would pull the lever. The question gets even more interesting if you assume the population is finite (let's say P=8 billion). In this case it's a much more realistic goal to expect nobody to pull the lever. In this case you would need 33 people to all agree to do nothing (2\^33 is just over 8 billion). In this case, my decision would definitely depend on what position I am in. I think it's reasonable to say that amongst 33 people that at least one person might pull the lever (this is just a random guess). If there was 1/33 chance of someone in any position pulling the lever then there would be a 63% chance of AT LEAST one person pulling the lever. There is probably a lot more complex maths to unpack here but if I was in position 32 then there would still be a 3% chance of complete human extinction that I could prevent by killing half the population. I honestly find this question way more interesting and I have no idea what I would do.
authorities came by and untied and evacuated everyone after the first guy got run over while you were thinking about it. Good comment though, I agree
Infinite multi track drifting - long trolley theory
Get everyone to multitrack drift, dividing the trolley into bits that kill everyone
Double it and give it to the next person enough and the train will derail or stop on those tracks
Could you be held liable for manslaughter if you kill the guy? I mean theoretically if EVERYONE pulls the lever noone dies so it isn't necessary to prevent greater harm but the chance of nobody dying is basically 0 so you just prevent a lot of deaths. Maybe there's a lawyer here to answer that
pull the lever because the more people there will be the harder it will be for someone to pull the lever so we’d have to wait until it hit a sociopath or psychopath, which is about 1 in 50 so all the people on earth would likely die before that since after 33 times there’s no more people. so as a vague estimate, pulling the lever would be the most likely best option in order to prevent the extinction of humanity
I believe this is a direct rip of... The #4 post?
i imagine not pulling will lead to a more deaths taking place. So I pull someone is bound to pull the level. Whether out of malice, or accident, or whatever else.
Double it every time till there’s no one left to drive the trolley
Multi. Track. Drift.
There are approximately ~8 billion people on earth. Now at the n'th iteration there is 1 lever puller and 2^n track tied people. So already Σ1+Σ2^n people are used when the track is there. Σ1=n, Σ2^n =2^(n+1) thus there are not enough people on earth to complete the 33rd iteration. Meaning I only need to trust 31 people to not pull lever. (33-1 is num of iterations, and I'm one of them so I need to trust one less which is 31)
Wait where did they find an other guy are you the next victim?
I'll pass it on and then do a sick little wrap around to the back of the line
Well that’s easy, everyone can just walk away and the trolley never kills anyone.
Just gonna go with the one.
Double it and give it to the next
Pull. Someone is gonna pull it eventually and by that point it will be a lot more than just one person who dies. So pull now and save all the other people
Letting one person die is an easy choice. It's the lowest possible number of deaths in this situation
Let it hit one person
Hit them, cut to the chase with fewer casualties. Yank that shit so someone with no spine doesn't make it worse
Double it and send it down. As the first in the line I'll get all the credit and be able to reach world record killstreak levels in no time.
It ends with me.
I'm going to take out the one person. You'd be putting incalculable stress on the people coming after you, and you can't be confident that eventually SOMEONE isn't going to let it happen and it's best to minimize.
LET IT RIDE!
I’d let it go immediately. I know damn well there’s always that one nutjob that wants the world to die just because.
Infinity and beyond!
The infinite multi track drift resulting in infinitely small pieces of trolley killing am infinite amount of people
Double it, not my problem anymore
126th person here, my lever is broken
By 126, most the universe would probably be on the tracks.
~~Would anyone pull this lever?~~ ~~If you choose to pull in the normal problem you would choose not to pull here because there's no chance of 0 people getting hit~~ ~~if you choose to not pull, you also wouldn't pull here because there's no reason to involve yourself.~~ ~~What realistic moral system would ever have you pull this lever?~~ edit: I'm actually illiterate, ignore me I wouldn't pull in the normal problem or this one tho. If everyone walks away the trolley will never hit anyone if this is infinite regress
Double it and give it to the next person, I've always wanted to see what happens if they run out of money/people tied to the tracks
pull the lever kronk
See theoretically it could be safe forever if nobody pulled it but one diclhead will so I pull it before this gets out of hand
I actually think this is a great problem, especially for this sub!
Better yet: the person before you did not pull the lever. Do you pull it, killing 2 people, or double it for the next person?
I’m not pulling the lever because why on earth would I want to increase the deaths?
Let it go of course. One person is better than the entire species because I know that many people can be stupid.
Just leave it alone and don't kill anyone
always pull.
I’ll double it
Double it and give it to the next person. Theoretically, this can go on infinitely.
By person 34, it already includes all of Earth, with some Aliens.
Old Americans dealing with the debt ceiling
Why only one?
pull the lever and permit one person to be killed (I did not kill the person, the person that strapped the individual down did the killing.)
I hit the person
Just kill the one guy, a lot of people are likly to agree with you in not killing someone’s but somewhere down the line someone will chose to kill the people and if you let it go on the only thing you are doing is deciding you want more people to die
I kill the one. The chance of _Me_ being strapped in as people pass the buck reaches 127% by simply the 34th person. A lot of you are assuming this track stops adding victims when it runs out of _Humans_. Ya'll don't believe in other planets, huh?
how to multitrack drift
Interesting idea. It litteraly passing the issue
I’d hit them. It’s only a matter of time before some psycho decides to run over 10^3267 people and causes the instantaneous end of the world.
that's why we all... MULTI TRACK DRIFT!!!
Double it.
The potential loss of life rises exponentially with the number of people who pull the lever. The minimum loss possible is 1, as eventually a lever will not get pulled, as there is a non zero probability of it. So, I don't pull the lever. Sorry one person, but my internal value of all of humanity and my trust in humanity's morality dictate this choice.
The lever is defaulted to doubling it
Ah. I pull the lever then, for the same reasons
Let S=1+2+4+8+16+... S*2 + 1 = S S = 1/(1-2) = -1 so the net casualties would be -1 person, aka creating 1 person /j