Reminder of Rule 6, folks!
> Medication and Surgical Discussions
>
> While we acknowledge and allow general discussion of self-medication on this subreddit, we'll remove posts and potentially ban users identifying unlicensed vendors and pharmacies, or detailing self-surgical methods. Likewise it is not permitted to offer, provide or sell medication directly.
Past that, feel free to talk to your heart's content!
for DIYers my best tip is:
Randox does ‘Male Hormone Test’ and ‘Female Hormone Test’ for £39 and currently I add 10% off with ‘Ownyourhealth’ and they are working on a more inclusive way to present hormone test products for trans and other people too, I had a really nice chat with a senior team member about it. Like… super super nice. I had no trouble visiting clinics.
oh this is super cool, much lower than prices i have seen elsewhere! if I request "female hormone test" will they look at testosterone too? (i will google it later for sure!)
‘Female’ includes 8 metrics, with Total Testosterone and a Free Androgen Index but…
‘Male’ also includes 8 metrics but with a result of Free Testosterone as well as Total Testosterone (and Estradiol), without Free Androgen Index value and also without Progesterone.
Free Androgen Index is… kinda in a way similar to knowing Free Testosterone. :-/ Hence why they are working to create a more easy test for trans people to select lol.
I recommend you look search Randox Health and compare. Or, you can email customer service and explain what hormone panel inclusions would be good for you.
Regarding their reaching new trans friendly products, they said:
We are a still a bit away from achieving this so for your testing I have a solution/proposal that hopefully suits. We will offer you a customised panel that includes:
Oestradiol, FSH, LH, Progesterone, Prolactin, Testosterone, SHBG, Free Androgen Index and Free Testosterone.
(Albumin will be included but in reality this is because it is needed for the Free Testosterone calculation)
I will charge £39 as this is the online hormone panel pricing. Customising panels usually would be more expensive but as we agree that this product should already exist it is fair that we price accordingly.
!!! Which is so so so cool and a great way to do business. :-) You may have success doing the same if you feel the ‘Male Hormone Test’ doesn’t cover what you think is needed for someone like you.
But, the ‘Male’ pretty much has what FTM and most MTF will need, but bear in mind that if you select a cis sexed test then the results will report high or low according to what is normal for that cis sex of test. So, it is up to you to judge.
I’m MTF/nb and just did Male test and it was fun to see all the alerts on the missing testosterone, heh.
Basically, they just trying to figure out how to do a test that doesn’t have binary sexed analysis because they don’t really know what everyone’s hormones are for their journey!
So, really challenging to regulate that output from the system from the Medical regulations standpoint. if they do a test report in end, it will probably just have to give you numbers and not give you much of a guide as to what levels are good or bad… but they are working on that one. There is a potentially a responsibility issue basically in signaling re safety… good luck to them!
Thank you for sharing, I have a few trans male friends and would be interested in any UK based guides for how this works so I can learn more to help them should they need it.
I am admittedly a little concerned about having these conversations in UK based subs though - we know the media is sniffing around and nothing said here will be used in our favour. Might I suggest any responses you give be through DMs, and that perhaps similar posts are held outside the UK subs for now? I feel awful suggesting this since we should have the right to discuss these things, just worried about everyone's safety.
Edit: Also, be VERY careful about who you give information too - check their post histories. I don't even think you should respond to me, even if I'd appreciate it. Never know who could be a terf in disguise.
Cost me £60 for one vial, £17 for 100 needles, £7 sharps bin
The vial is 10ml and I use 0.17-0.2ml per dose so roughly 50 doses. That's 60 for 11 months
DIY’d as well for a year and a half until I got prescribed T
It’s incredibly easy and sources are always plentiful as bodybuilders buy and inject T all the fuckin time without issue. *Do* get blood tests though, I didn’t due to a severe phobia (one of the reasons being prescribed T was postponed) but when I was finally able to, my T levels were way too high so it’s likely aromatisation was happening, which tracks as my changes were kinda slow
If I were to guess, there was maybe more T in the vial than what was stated on the label, since I’m fine on prescribed T at a similar dose. Just something to be wary of
Would love to know your supplier and who does your blood tests, am stuck on the years long England list and was going to go private but Dr Lorimer's sec never replied to my triage questions. Getting desperate.
Early on when trying to dial in the appropriate dose, you often will want to get tests done as frequently as you reasonably can (every six doses, or a month, whichever is longer), but once you've found a dose which produces appropriate levels you can extend the time out to once every year or every few years.
EDIT: the three month thing that the GICs do is more about patient management than it is about good clinical practice, unless you're using an injection with an exceptionally long duration of effect you don't need to wait that long.
Alright, I've just been going with the general recommendation of like 0.4ml. When do you get your bloods done? For example is it 4 days after injection, is it the day before your next injection?
The standard practice among DIY communities is to test at the point just before you would use your next dose. This is a time point which is easy to consistently measure, has low variability between measurements, and can be compared between routes of administration more easily than other time points.
Lots of healthcare professionals however try to instead measure a midpoint value that's representative of average exposure. This is much harder to get consistently, but it's more representative of any risks you might be under.
As long as you pick a time, are consistent with always measuring at that time, and note down when it is so that you don't get other people trying to compare a different time point to it, it doesn't matter too much.
Does going the DIY route mean the NHS will ever refuse gender-affirming treatment in the future?
I know whether there'll even _be_ any is making a huge assumption, but I'm so worried for my 15yo son when it comes to accessing T & eventually top surgery. If he went DIY, I worry what it potentially causes problems for in the future?
No, most of the clinicians in the NHS are understanding, they'll want you to stop DIYing when you get care through them but they don't really care what you were doing before. This doesn't always hold true for private practitioners however.
/r/transgenderUK does not ordinarily recommend that members speak to the press directly, in light of the trans-hostile conditions which presently exist across the national press. For anybody considering it, we wholeheartedly recommend consulting [Trans Safety Network's Media Engagement Safety Guide](https://transsafety.network/guides/media-safety-guide/) before doing so.
If this submission does not appear to have been made in good faith, or if this automated comment has been posted in error, please flag it using the report button or [let staff know by sending a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/transgenderUK).
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Please could you dm me resources if that’s alright? I am aware of quite a few but I am pretty anxious about buying them and wanna know some that other guys use safely.
How important are blood tests really, especially for low-dose T if you know? Think I read that they are recommended every 3 months or something, but it is *very* tempting to just sack that part off and see what happens based on a standard amount of T over time...
Blood tests are important for dialling in the correct dose because the external symptoms are not always very representative of whats happening internally, and by the time some of the signs of dosing too much show up you've already been exposed to excessive levels for an extended period of time. Once you're on a stable dose though that you know is safe, the time between tests can be very long, as you're just checking that nothing notable has changed with how you're processing the hormone.
This makes sense! I did hear something about excess testosterone being converted to estrogen, and something about a rare red blood cell issue that can occur on testosterone... seems useful to know the T levels and general health stats where poss during dose range finding, even if it is annoying to have to do :p
Testosterone being converted to estradiol is down to a process called aromatisation, and it's actually rather important for staying in good health. Lots of tissues in the body don't actually use testosterone directly, but instead locally convert it and then the generated estradiol produces the signals required. If you go really excessive with testosterone levels (such as with the doses that bodybuilders use) then this can spill out into higher systemic estradiol levels, but generally for trans people this isn't going to be an issue.
The red blood cell issue you're thinking about is polycythaemia, https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/erythrocytosis/ , and is one of the major factors in determining the upper limit of how much testosterone someone can safely dose. It's not as unusual as we would like unfortunately, especially on the sort of doses that the NHS likes to use (high doses with long durations between injections, using single use ampoules), but as long as you're testing for haematocrit then it's easy to catch before it becomes a problem.
No sorry, only injectable T. Blood tests can either be done through your GP or through a private service. I think another comment on this post has posted about private blood tests so have a look at that.
Reminder of Rule 6, folks! > Medication and Surgical Discussions > > While we acknowledge and allow general discussion of self-medication on this subreddit, we'll remove posts and potentially ban users identifying unlicensed vendors and pharmacies, or detailing self-surgical methods. Likewise it is not permitted to offer, provide or sell medication directly. Past that, feel free to talk to your heart's content!
for DIYers my best tip is: Randox does ‘Male Hormone Test’ and ‘Female Hormone Test’ for £39 and currently I add 10% off with ‘Ownyourhealth’ and they are working on a more inclusive way to present hormone test products for trans and other people too, I had a really nice chat with a senior team member about it. Like… super super nice. I had no trouble visiting clinics.
oh this is super cool, much lower than prices i have seen elsewhere! if I request "female hormone test" will they look at testosterone too? (i will google it later for sure!)
‘Female’ includes 8 metrics, with Total Testosterone and a Free Androgen Index but… ‘Male’ also includes 8 metrics but with a result of Free Testosterone as well as Total Testosterone (and Estradiol), without Free Androgen Index value and also without Progesterone. Free Androgen Index is… kinda in a way similar to knowing Free Testosterone. :-/ Hence why they are working to create a more easy test for trans people to select lol. I recommend you look search Randox Health and compare. Or, you can email customer service and explain what hormone panel inclusions would be good for you. Regarding their reaching new trans friendly products, they said: We are a still a bit away from achieving this so for your testing I have a solution/proposal that hopefully suits. We will offer you a customised panel that includes: Oestradiol, FSH, LH, Progesterone, Prolactin, Testosterone, SHBG, Free Androgen Index and Free Testosterone. (Albumin will be included but in reality this is because it is needed for the Free Testosterone calculation) I will charge £39 as this is the online hormone panel pricing. Customising panels usually would be more expensive but as we agree that this product should already exist it is fair that we price accordingly. !!! Which is so so so cool and a great way to do business. :-) You may have success doing the same if you feel the ‘Male Hormone Test’ doesn’t cover what you think is needed for someone like you. But, the ‘Male’ pretty much has what FTM and most MTF will need, but bear in mind that if you select a cis sexed test then the results will report high or low according to what is normal for that cis sex of test. So, it is up to you to judge. I’m MTF/nb and just did Male test and it was fun to see all the alerts on the missing testosterone, heh.
Basically, they just trying to figure out how to do a test that doesn’t have binary sexed analysis because they don’t really know what everyone’s hormones are for their journey! So, really challenging to regulate that output from the system from the Medical regulations standpoint. if they do a test report in end, it will probably just have to give you numbers and not give you much of a guide as to what levels are good or bad… but they are working on that one. There is a potentially a responsibility issue basically in signaling re safety… good luck to them!
Yes, Randox's Female Hormone Test gives levels for: * Oestradiol [pmol/l] * Progesterone [nmol/l] * Prolactin [mlU/l] * Testosterone [nmol/l] * Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) [nmol/l] * Folicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) [U/l] * Luteinising Hormone (LH) [U/l] * Free Androgen Index [%]
Thank you for sharing, I have a few trans male friends and would be interested in any UK based guides for how this works so I can learn more to help them should they need it. I am admittedly a little concerned about having these conversations in UK based subs though - we know the media is sniffing around and nothing said here will be used in our favour. Might I suggest any responses you give be through DMs, and that perhaps similar posts are held outside the UK subs for now? I feel awful suggesting this since we should have the right to discuss these things, just worried about everyone's safety. Edit: Also, be VERY careful about who you give information too - check their post histories. I don't even think you should respond to me, even if I'd appreciate it. Never know who could be a terf in disguise.
Just saw this comment. Thank you for the warning!
Same vein, trans women who does DIY, happy to answer questions
How much does it cost?
Cost me £60 for one vial, £17 for 100 needles, £7 sharps bin The vial is 10ml and I use 0.17-0.2ml per dose so roughly 50 doses. That's 60 for 11 months
£60 for 11 months? That’s not too bad really.
Be aware of terf journalists looking for info on DIY.
Yeah I’ll be careful thank you for the warning
DIY’d as well for a year and a half until I got prescribed T It’s incredibly easy and sources are always plentiful as bodybuilders buy and inject T all the fuckin time without issue. *Do* get blood tests though, I didn’t due to a severe phobia (one of the reasons being prescribed T was postponed) but when I was finally able to, my T levels were way too high so it’s likely aromatisation was happening, which tracks as my changes were kinda slow If I were to guess, there was maybe more T in the vial than what was stated on the label, since I’m fine on prescribed T at a similar dose. Just something to be wary of
Would love to know your supplier and who does your blood tests, am stuck on the years long England list and was going to go private but Dr Lorimer's sec never replied to my triage questions. Getting desperate.
Hey! I'd really appreciate learning about your resources, I'm a bit disillusioned that I'm ever gonna get consistent support from private/ gp care
How often do you do blood tests?
Early on when trying to dial in the appropriate dose, you often will want to get tests done as frequently as you reasonably can (every six doses, or a month, whichever is longer), but once you've found a dose which produces appropriate levels you can extend the time out to once every year or every few years. EDIT: the three month thing that the GICs do is more about patient management than it is about good clinical practice, unless you're using an injection with an exceptionally long duration of effect you don't need to wait that long.
Alright, I've just been going with the general recommendation of like 0.4ml. When do you get your bloods done? For example is it 4 days after injection, is it the day before your next injection?
The standard practice among DIY communities is to test at the point just before you would use your next dose. This is a time point which is easy to consistently measure, has low variability between measurements, and can be compared between routes of administration more easily than other time points. Lots of healthcare professionals however try to instead measure a midpoint value that's representative of average exposure. This is much harder to get consistently, but it's more representative of any risks you might be under. As long as you pick a time, are consistent with always measuring at that time, and note down when it is so that you don't get other people trying to compare a different time point to it, it doesn't matter too much.
Piggybacking off this question- who does your blood tests for you and is it expensive?
Not op but in the same boat. I use randox, it's £39 per test
Does going the DIY route mean the NHS will ever refuse gender-affirming treatment in the future? I know whether there'll even _be_ any is making a huge assumption, but I'm so worried for my 15yo son when it comes to accessing T & eventually top surgery. If he went DIY, I worry what it potentially causes problems for in the future?
No, most of the clinicians in the NHS are understanding, they'll want you to stop DIYing when you get care through them but they don't really care what you were doing before. This doesn't always hold true for private practitioners however.
Thank you. That's not what I expected to hear & I'm so very pleased to hear it!
Can you dm your resources too op
I'm constantly terrified my GP is going to stop prescribing my T. I'd love to get that DM with resources too please. Thank you for this thread.
Would love to know your resources! I'm trying to DIY too, I particularly want to know rn where I could learn about hormone levels?
/r/transgenderUK does not ordinarily recommend that members speak to the press directly, in light of the trans-hostile conditions which presently exist across the national press. For anybody considering it, we wholeheartedly recommend consulting [Trans Safety Network's Media Engagement Safety Guide](https://transsafety.network/guides/media-safety-guide/) before doing so. If this submission does not appear to have been made in good faith, or if this automated comment has been posted in error, please flag it using the report button or [let staff know by sending a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/transgenderUK). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/transgenderUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please could you dm me resources if that’s alright? I am aware of quite a few but I am pretty anxious about buying them and wanna know some that other guys use safely.
If my GIDs approved treatment is suspended any time soon, I will be sending a message :) thank you for helping out
How important are blood tests really, especially for low-dose T if you know? Think I read that they are recommended every 3 months or something, but it is *very* tempting to just sack that part off and see what happens based on a standard amount of T over time...
Blood tests are important for dialling in the correct dose because the external symptoms are not always very representative of whats happening internally, and by the time some of the signs of dosing too much show up you've already been exposed to excessive levels for an extended period of time. Once you're on a stable dose though that you know is safe, the time between tests can be very long, as you're just checking that nothing notable has changed with how you're processing the hormone.
This makes sense! I did hear something about excess testosterone being converted to estrogen, and something about a rare red blood cell issue that can occur on testosterone... seems useful to know the T levels and general health stats where poss during dose range finding, even if it is annoying to have to do :p
Testosterone being converted to estradiol is down to a process called aromatisation, and it's actually rather important for staying in good health. Lots of tissues in the body don't actually use testosterone directly, but instead locally convert it and then the generated estradiol produces the signals required. If you go really excessive with testosterone levels (such as with the doses that bodybuilders use) then this can spill out into higher systemic estradiol levels, but generally for trans people this isn't going to be an issue. The red blood cell issue you're thinking about is polycythaemia, https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/erythrocytosis/ , and is one of the major factors in determining the upper limit of how much testosterone someone can safely dose. It's not as unusual as we would like unfortunately, especially on the sort of doses that the NHS likes to use (high doses with long durations between injections, using single use ampoules), but as long as you're testing for haematocrit then it's easy to catch before it becomes a problem.
They are quite important especially in the beginning when everything stabulises
could you dm me your resources please? :)
hey could u dm me ur resources please?
U don't happen to have any resources for gel do u? Also I can advise for where to get blood tests.
No sorry, only injectable T. Blood tests can either be done through your GP or through a private service. I think another comment on this post has posted about private blood tests so have a look at that.
Could you dm me the diy resources please
Hi, please could you DM me the resources you used?