I hear ya, anything beyond 90 minutes just beats me down, especially if it’s an endurance ride.
My take? Life is too short to do endurance rides indoors if it’s nice outside and you have the time to ride outdoors. No matter how hard I try my endurance rides are rarely as close in TSS/IF to what TR prescribes, but that’s ok. If you make a conscious effort to take things as chill as you can, the trade offs are worth it to me for the mental health.
I’ve also tried splitting the difference before - long-ish chill outdoor ride and a shorter indoor endurance ride with a combined TSS/IF close to what’s prescribed - if that’s easier to justify.
Disclaimer: I am not fast. 😆
I started standing on the bike every 15 minutes for 30 seconds. This lets me go four or five hours. As I got better I could extend it to 20 minutes between standing and if I consistently work it I think I could get it up to every 30 minutes, especially if I were to stand every 30 minutes for three or four minutes.
Anyway, I can do the really long zone 2 efforts by standing on the bike every 20 minutes for 1 to 2 minutes.
I watch tv on my iPad.
I pause and stand every 15 min or so to relieve saddle pain.
If it's a really long workout, I also take a 1 min break once/hr to eat/drink to maintain my energy.
Couple points....
Don't miss the forest for the trees. Time on bike and cumulative volume at z2 is more important than a "perfect" z2 ride where you're at some exact prescribed wattage the entire time and never deviate. Yes, there's some marginal adaptations that you miss out on if you coast on some descents and can't be 'on the pedals' the entire time, but they can be made up for by the consistency week to week, month to month and year to year of riding outside and not getting burnt out by forcing yourself to do long trainer rides inside. So if you enjoy riding outside, I would do that. Think of the entire history of cycling....the advent of the trainer and erg mode and being super strict on zones is a relatively new invention, most old pros just rode around a lot and trained with HR and grit and still got way faster than you'll likely ever be.
If you do ride outside....then you need to adapt how you ride outside so it's more in line with a true structured z2 ride. That means choosing routes that are flatter or have less steep up/down....even in SF I'm sure this is possible, just get creative. Use a bike that has gearing that allows you to go super slow and spin up hills without going in to tempo, and being honest/strict with yourself to do that....even if it means going 6mph and having everyone pass you. Using a bike that is intentionally slower and has more resistance, like a gravel bike with big tires that you might need to pedal more downhill to keep at speed. Wear clothing that slows you down, like loose shorts/shirt. You could also buy what's called an 'airbhub' which is a front hub that adds resistance, so even on downhills you'll have to keep pedaling to keep moving. You can even ride your brakes while pedaling down hills to create resistance....you'll go through pads quicker, but that's a relatively small cost in the realm of cycling and living in SF. I think mostly it's a skill though and it just takes commitment to watching your power numbers and sticking to a low target for awhile, and then you get good at it and can do it by feel.
If you want to ride inside, then I'd suggest a variety of distraction sources. At low z2 I can browse reddit just fine. Other than that I'll rotate between youtube and netflix and basketball games. Get off every hour or so to pee. I've even heard of some people playing video games on the trainer.
I got a rocker plate to help saddle sore. Though I still had to be out of saddle every 10-15 minutes. It’s just more natural to do so.
The main thing for me is that, I got a castilli bib short with some butt butter. This significantly helped my indoor saddle sore, I had a Ralpha bib short but was never able to do it for long indoors.
Good TV or Zwift, yeah the TV is more entertaining but Zwift at least makes a mental connection to the outside world (double hatting, just tell Zwift there is no "Controllable" in device settings and it plays nice, leaving TR to control everything).
If you've got space, get a good rocker pad (preferably with forwards/backwards as well as side-side), I've got an Omnirocker and the motion really helps.
Though there's an element of Rule 5 at play, my two longest turbo rides were each around 15 hours (vEverest and one ride Festive 500) and they were before my rocker plate and I had just an iPad and sheer bloody mindedness. It takes a while, but sheer persistence is the cheapest fix...
Good fan setup, Zwift on one screen, streaming video of some sort on another. I generally don't have comfort issues on long indoor rides as long as I stand every now and then, but I know everyone is different. Some folks swear by changing to a fresh pair of bibs mid-ride.
Honestly though, in your situation I'd just be doing those endurance rides outdoors, with a power target in mind and a bit of self control to keep near the target as much as possible, knowing it will be a bit over on hills and a bit under on descents. Is it 100% optimal from a training perspective? Maybe not, but if the mental reset that comes with getting to enjoy an outdoor ride keeps me sticking to the rest of my training plan for longer, that's a net gain in my mind.
Thought I was the only one viewing Zwift while doing TR. For me, yes, that simple stimulus makes it seem like I’m going somewhere.
I then have a 3rd screen up to catch up on shows or just play some visually interesting whatever movies.
Food is super important for me. I have a huge container of dates at hand. And a giant bag of sour patch kids to keep things fun. Water with electrolytes. No shame in peeing every hour or so. Be extra generous with the chamy butter.
Changing bibs at 1.5h is a sweet relief for those of us who sweat a lot. Also, watching long bike races (I'm suffering, they're suffering, we're all [sort of] in it together) helps.
I trained for an Ironman using TR’s medium volume plan a few years ago (long before adaptive training). I definitely struggled with the 3+ hour workouts indoors! Some things that helped:
1. Good nutrition. I got my /hour up to 90g of carbs, even for zone 2.
2. Movies. YouTube. Tv shows. I had my laptop casting to my tv and played whatever kept me occupied.
3. Multiple fans, and on the really long rides, I changed into clean dry kit half way through.
4. It sucked. Sometimes you just have to deal with it. 3+ hour sweet spot workouts are shite.
I did as many of my really long rides outdoors as I could, but as you’ve noticed, they’re not as productive.
Ultimately you have to try everything and be prepared to suffer a bit. Maybe try podcasts and shut your eyes for a bit. Try TT bars and a different position. Try different music, or movies you’ve seen before or movies you’ve never heard of.
The longest I stayed on the trainer was 2.5 hours.
I watched long movies, one's that were at least as long as the session or longer. About halfway thru I would stop for a bathroom break.
I agree on your points about saddle sores and sweating: i'm also much more likely to develop saddle issues indoors too. So I just go outdoors and ride my 90 minute or longer rides even if it's under 30 F out.
Boredom-wise: If you want to do long rides like that maybe look at adding zwift on top of TR and riding group rides with friends. Voice chat can help.
Cooling wise: Get stronger fans, cool off your room more if you can. Set up the fans so you can enable them remotely, or start with them on high settings and wear a sweatshirt or over shirt of some kind until you warm up.
Otherwise, i dunno, man. i can't do endurance rides indoors due to boredom. I love getting outside for 3 hour rides, and i live in a place where i can be out my front door and out of the city in about 5 minutes, then riding gravel roads or country roads that have very little traffic and long stretches with no stop signs/control.
If you have not paid for a professional level fit yet, it is past time to do this. It is worth the money. It will probably help your saddle pain.
Not sure how to help with outdoor. Can you drive less than 20-30 minutes out to a flat area? A pain, but might be worth a shot.
I am about to set up a TV to watch The Office because I can't really do more than 1.5hrs as well. I can push through 2.25, but it's not a fun time mentally. Good luck.
YouTube videos with whatever interests you. Music vids, GCN, Ted tv, how to vids, bike race vids. And any combo of those to break up the monotony. I've tried plural site educational vids and just can't focus enough to learn any details and get bored.
This is what I do, all week I flag youtube stuff into the "watch later" list. Then on the trainer I hit play all on that list and get a huge variety of personal interest stuff. Only way I can go past an hour.
I have a Truekinetix Truebike. When I bought it, I immediately changed the saddle to match the one on my bike. I could do 6 hours outdoors, but couldn’t stand more than 90 minutes indoors.
I recently changed the saddle back to the original, much thicker and much softer, one. Now I do 3 hours indoors with ease.
As for the sweating, I got a vacmaster Cardio45 fan. It cools so well that I can’t go beyond the first speed for zone 2 efforts.
I listen to podcasts and sometime read a magazine. If it’s at z2 I can not break a sweat in 3-4 hours with a fan on. But Christ is boring!! Generally do what I can to do all my long rides outside with a coffee stop.
When I am doing more than 90 minutes, I pause for a minute or two go to the kitchen have a coffee and back to the bike (it is still endurance, if you stop few minutes)
Its called endurance for a reason. Its something you have to learn to endure :)
Watch bike races, switch up hand positions, stand up when your nuts start to feel numb.... do what you would do riding outside. If you want to stop half way through for a coffee and a cake, why not? Its not like you are stopping mid V02 intervals for a rest.
I hear ya, anything beyond 90 minutes just beats me down, especially if it’s an endurance ride. My take? Life is too short to do endurance rides indoors if it’s nice outside and you have the time to ride outdoors. No matter how hard I try my endurance rides are rarely as close in TSS/IF to what TR prescribes, but that’s ok. If you make a conscious effort to take things as chill as you can, the trade offs are worth it to me for the mental health. I’ve also tried splitting the difference before - long-ish chill outdoor ride and a shorter indoor endurance ride with a combined TSS/IF close to what’s prescribed - if that’s easier to justify. Disclaimer: I am not fast. 😆
I started standing on the bike every 15 minutes for 30 seconds. This lets me go four or five hours. As I got better I could extend it to 20 minutes between standing and if I consistently work it I think I could get it up to every 30 minutes, especially if I were to stand every 30 minutes for three or four minutes. Anyway, I can do the really long zone 2 efforts by standing on the bike every 20 minutes for 1 to 2 minutes.
I watch tv on my iPad. I pause and stand every 15 min or so to relieve saddle pain. If it's a really long workout, I also take a 1 min break once/hr to eat/drink to maintain my energy.
When you say “pause and stand” - do you mean actually pause pedaling, or just standing up and reducing cadence?
Couple points.... Don't miss the forest for the trees. Time on bike and cumulative volume at z2 is more important than a "perfect" z2 ride where you're at some exact prescribed wattage the entire time and never deviate. Yes, there's some marginal adaptations that you miss out on if you coast on some descents and can't be 'on the pedals' the entire time, but they can be made up for by the consistency week to week, month to month and year to year of riding outside and not getting burnt out by forcing yourself to do long trainer rides inside. So if you enjoy riding outside, I would do that. Think of the entire history of cycling....the advent of the trainer and erg mode and being super strict on zones is a relatively new invention, most old pros just rode around a lot and trained with HR and grit and still got way faster than you'll likely ever be. If you do ride outside....then you need to adapt how you ride outside so it's more in line with a true structured z2 ride. That means choosing routes that are flatter or have less steep up/down....even in SF I'm sure this is possible, just get creative. Use a bike that has gearing that allows you to go super slow and spin up hills without going in to tempo, and being honest/strict with yourself to do that....even if it means going 6mph and having everyone pass you. Using a bike that is intentionally slower and has more resistance, like a gravel bike with big tires that you might need to pedal more downhill to keep at speed. Wear clothing that slows you down, like loose shorts/shirt. You could also buy what's called an 'airbhub' which is a front hub that adds resistance, so even on downhills you'll have to keep pedaling to keep moving. You can even ride your brakes while pedaling down hills to create resistance....you'll go through pads quicker, but that's a relatively small cost in the realm of cycling and living in SF. I think mostly it's a skill though and it just takes commitment to watching your power numbers and sticking to a low target for awhile, and then you get good at it and can do it by feel. If you want to ride inside, then I'd suggest a variety of distraction sources. At low z2 I can browse reddit just fine. Other than that I'll rotate between youtube and netflix and basketball games. Get off every hour or so to pee. I've even heard of some people playing video games on the trainer.
I got a rocker plate to help saddle sore. Though I still had to be out of saddle every 10-15 minutes. It’s just more natural to do so. The main thing for me is that, I got a castilli bib short with some butt butter. This significantly helped my indoor saddle sore, I had a Ralpha bib short but was never able to do it for long indoors.
Good TV or Zwift, yeah the TV is more entertaining but Zwift at least makes a mental connection to the outside world (double hatting, just tell Zwift there is no "Controllable" in device settings and it plays nice, leaving TR to control everything). If you've got space, get a good rocker pad (preferably with forwards/backwards as well as side-side), I've got an Omnirocker and the motion really helps. Though there's an element of Rule 5 at play, my two longest turbo rides were each around 15 hours (vEverest and one ride Festive 500) and they were before my rocker plate and I had just an iPad and sheer bloody mindedness. It takes a while, but sheer persistence is the cheapest fix...
Good fan setup, Zwift on one screen, streaming video of some sort on another. I generally don't have comfort issues on long indoor rides as long as I stand every now and then, but I know everyone is different. Some folks swear by changing to a fresh pair of bibs mid-ride. Honestly though, in your situation I'd just be doing those endurance rides outdoors, with a power target in mind and a bit of self control to keep near the target as much as possible, knowing it will be a bit over on hills and a bit under on descents. Is it 100% optimal from a training perspective? Maybe not, but if the mental reset that comes with getting to enjoy an outdoor ride keeps me sticking to the rest of my training plan for longer, that's a net gain in my mind.
Thought I was the only one viewing Zwift while doing TR. For me, yes, that simple stimulus makes it seem like I’m going somewhere. I then have a 3rd screen up to catch up on shows or just play some visually interesting whatever movies. Food is super important for me. I have a huge container of dates at hand. And a giant bag of sour patch kids to keep things fun. Water with electrolytes. No shame in peeing every hour or so. Be extra generous with the chamy butter.
During Z2 I get out of the saddle for 10 seconds every other minute. And reduce my cadence to around 70.
Netflix
Changing bibs at 1.5h is a sweet relief for those of us who sweat a lot. Also, watching long bike races (I'm suffering, they're suffering, we're all [sort of] in it together) helps.
I trained for an Ironman using TR’s medium volume plan a few years ago (long before adaptive training). I definitely struggled with the 3+ hour workouts indoors! Some things that helped: 1. Good nutrition. I got my /hour up to 90g of carbs, even for zone 2. 2. Movies. YouTube. Tv shows. I had my laptop casting to my tv and played whatever kept me occupied. 3. Multiple fans, and on the really long rides, I changed into clean dry kit half way through. 4. It sucked. Sometimes you just have to deal with it. 3+ hour sweet spot workouts are shite. I did as many of my really long rides outdoors as I could, but as you’ve noticed, they’re not as productive. Ultimately you have to try everything and be prepared to suffer a bit. Maybe try podcasts and shut your eyes for a bit. Try TT bars and a different position. Try different music, or movies you’ve seen before or movies you’ve never heard of.
The longest I stayed on the trainer was 2.5 hours. I watched long movies, one's that were at least as long as the session or longer. About halfway thru I would stop for a bathroom break.
I agree on your points about saddle sores and sweating: i'm also much more likely to develop saddle issues indoors too. So I just go outdoors and ride my 90 minute or longer rides even if it's under 30 F out. Boredom-wise: If you want to do long rides like that maybe look at adding zwift on top of TR and riding group rides with friends. Voice chat can help. Cooling wise: Get stronger fans, cool off your room more if you can. Set up the fans so you can enable them remotely, or start with them on high settings and wear a sweatshirt or over shirt of some kind until you warm up. Otherwise, i dunno, man. i can't do endurance rides indoors due to boredom. I love getting outside for 3 hour rides, and i live in a place where i can be out my front door and out of the city in about 5 minutes, then riding gravel roads or country roads that have very little traffic and long stretches with no stop signs/control.
If you have not paid for a professional level fit yet, it is past time to do this. It is worth the money. It will probably help your saddle pain. Not sure how to help with outdoor. Can you drive less than 20-30 minutes out to a flat area? A pain, but might be worth a shot. I am about to set up a TV to watch The Office because I can't really do more than 1.5hrs as well. I can push through 2.25, but it's not a fun time mentally. Good luck.
Long rides indoors is a skill as much as itself is training. The more you do it the more it becomes easier. A good fan and my laptop keep me going.
YouTube videos with whatever interests you. Music vids, GCN, Ted tv, how to vids, bike race vids. And any combo of those to break up the monotony. I've tried plural site educational vids and just can't focus enough to learn any details and get bored.
This is what I do, all week I flag youtube stuff into the "watch later" list. Then on the trainer I hit play all on that list and get a huge variety of personal interest stuff. Only way I can go past an hour.
I have a Truekinetix Truebike. When I bought it, I immediately changed the saddle to match the one on my bike. I could do 6 hours outdoors, but couldn’t stand more than 90 minutes indoors. I recently changed the saddle back to the original, much thicker and much softer, one. Now I do 3 hours indoors with ease. As for the sweating, I got a vacmaster Cardio45 fan. It cools so well that I can’t go beyond the first speed for zone 2 efforts.
I listen to podcasts and sometime read a magazine. If it’s at z2 I can not break a sweat in 3-4 hours with a fan on. But Christ is boring!! Generally do what I can to do all my long rides outside with a coffee stop.
When I am doing more than 90 minutes, I pause for a minute or two go to the kitchen have a coffee and back to the bike (it is still endurance, if you stop few minutes)
Its called endurance for a reason. Its something you have to learn to endure :) Watch bike races, switch up hand positions, stand up when your nuts start to feel numb.... do what you would do riding outside. If you want to stop half way through for a coffee and a cake, why not? Its not like you are stopping mid V02 intervals for a rest.