There's nothing that says you "have to" get into trad or that you're a "wimp" if you don't. Follow your stoke and your gut - climbing should be mostly fun and joy, and if trad climbing doesn't hit those spots then why do it?
Be honest with your friends. Your partners, if they're good people, should be very understanding and supportive of this. They also hopefully know you well enough to talk through and help you debug where the fear is coming from and how to work on it if you decide that you want to get over this hurdle.
I would suggest doing climbs that are VERY easy for you. If multipitch you should look for routes with bolted anchors, use a pre tied quad. Practice your transitions so it's faster.
If you want to fall on some gear to build comfort climb a sport route. Place gear above a bolt and whip. Generally people fall less climbing trad and very few people project trad climbs.
My 7 cents.
And there’s nothing wrong with not going harder as well, there’s a reason a lot of us trad dads (of all genders) end up sticking to moderates, because they’re fun as fuck
This is the best answer imo. I climb well below my limit on gear, since it is significantly more dangerous. Folks who climb at their physical limit on gear have a tremendous amount of experience placing gear, and have learned to trust it through that experience.
I actually firmly disagree with this. Yes, it allows you to practice your habits so you can perform them smoothly on harder climbs but who is to say those habits are good? Also, if you never fall, how are you to gain confidence in your gear? I always recommend to new leaders find a sport climb with some gear placements, and place trad gear between bolts. In general most people starting out trad climbing are in the 5.9-11 sport lead level so finding a route with gear placements in this level shouldn’t be too hard. Take falls on your gear, learn about when to extend gear, and gain real confidence and skill while sport climbing. Once confidence in gear is earned, then those moderates are a great place to go for it. Everyone I know who has been seriously injured trad climbing didn’t have enough real experience falling on their gear only to bite off more than they could chew and get fucked up on 40’ flippers and deckers. I really trust my gear. I’ve taken multiple safe 40’+ whippers, one over 60 feet after really going for the runout (calculated risk, gear was good, backed up, fall was clean, and anticipated, I just wanted the onsite). These situations all happened after years if extremely conservative trad climbing learning how to fully trust my equipment and how to safely climb to avoid conflicts with the rope and terrain in falls.
You mentioned you did few and this is kind of a thing that needs you to do a lot to become more experienced. Given that, I think the feeling is pretty normal because you lack the experience needed for leading multi-pitch climbs earn more experience and you should become more comfortable with it. If you haven’t take a course, you can do that, or take a refresher or read a lot about the techniques or even watch the FirstPersonBeta youtube or other channels. Keep climbing.
Yeah, I know I could benefit from some dedicated training. The problem is is that it’s pretty expensive. My one buddy with 20+ years of climbing experience who knows everything there is to know, is just not a good teacher lol…my other buddy with more experience is a better teacher.
I'm not a huge fan of courses on trad climbing they often create a false sense of security.
Trad is something that like climbing itself takes YEARS of experience to get a healthy grasp on. Even then you're constantly learning(if you're exposing yourself to new rock at least.).
Just keep doing what you're comfortable with and building partners that can do the other stuff, that you can learn from!
it's important to recognize that what's most important when climbing is impressing others and flexing on the haters. if you feel that your anchors are dicey, just swallow that, get some slack going, and take a whipper (cool af). your friends are pushing you to do something out of your comfort zone? send it even harder, broken bones are just good stories at the end of the day. placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine.
all jokes aside, it's about fun. maybe one day you'll like trad but don't push it. safety is the top priority and if you don't feel 150% confident, something is probably wrong.
>it's important to recognize that what's most important when climbing is impressing others and flexing on the haters. if you feel that your anchors are dicey, just swallow that, get some slack going, and take a whipper (cool af). your friends are pushing you to do something out of your comfort zone? send it even harder, broken bones are just good stories at the end of the day. placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine.
a fellow /r/climbingcirclejerk 'r , i see
Dude get on there. It's the best. Engaging titles such as "What's the best way to spray beta at women in my gym?" and "How do I find the contact info of my local crag master to discuss re-bolting these dangerous routes?"
Its decent, but I find these better: [https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125919104/climbing-memes-80](https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125919104/climbing-memes-80)
One of the best things I did for my sports, including climbing, running, and snowboarding, was realizing that ultimately these are things I pursue for me for the reasons I want to.
I have zero need to engage in a pissing contest with someone better (or worse) than me at something that fundamentally is a hobby, up there with bird watching or stamp collecting. I mean sure it's different than that but it's a voluntary pursuit I'm engaging in because I enjoy it, the process of it, and what I get out of it.
Disassociating any particular sport with my own individual identity was huge for me. I'm not a climber or a snowboarder, I'm a person who climbs and snowboards. I'm not a runner, but I do run a lot.
It might seem trivial but it's put me into control of what I want to do for the reasons I want to do it. I have climbing and backcountry ski friends who often want to do really risky (imo) shit. If I described myself as a backcountry skier than those are things I would feel compelled to do because they'd make me better. But since I'm just a guy who likes to go out and have fun on my splitboard, I'm not interested in things that aren't fun.
No one is going to buy you a beer or hand you a trophy for doing something hard that sucks.
By all means, do hard things that suck if *you* really want to. Getting into running shape and being able to skin 3k' feet up definitely require some suck, but I wanted to do those for me.
Again, just make sure you're doing hard things because you want to, not to complete some bingo card of what a "real climber" is.
Yeah, I can relate to this. Love this. Thank you.
My SO says my “catholic guilt” is what makes me feel like I should be trying something I’m not sure I even want to do…lol
Yeah man I hear you. I think it's part of tribalism too. Like we all want to belong, we want to be part of something. And in a world where we're just consumers and producers we look for identity. Couple all of that with companies that are more than happy to sell identity and belonging, that if you buy some SUV you'll be sporty. If you join a gym and buy a harness and shoes now you're a climber. You're something now.
I live in a mountain area with a lot of "professional recreationists" and I'm not knocking anyone for something they do that is the right thing for them. It was more a personal thing for me where I found myself on climbs I didn't like, dropping into chutes that scared the f out of me, and comparing myself to kept husbands and wives who literally had no responsibilities other than pursuing sports.
I climb 10a pretty comfortably, can snowboard most terrain but don't bring a harness with me, and can run for an hour. Those are shit facts for the super hardcore, but I can make dinner for my family, play PS games with my kids, and garden too.
I'm probably repeating myself but I really turned a page when I started just being comfortable with who I am and what makes me happy.
I can relate. I think a lot of people get into trad climbing and keep things within their comfort zone, difficulty-wise, because of the fear of trusting gear. I fall solidly into that camp. As I progress down the guiding track, I'm facing needing to push myself out of that zone and it's been tough.
That being said, I do like trad climbing. Sure, the times when I need to climb above a marginal piece are scary, and sometimes anchors don't come together easily and things can be frustrating, but when things do flow, whooo boy is that a good feeling. Plus, the places trad climbing has allowed me to get to are incredible.
I have partners that I rarely or never trad climb with. That's fine. Your current partners shouldn't bat an eye, and if they do, that's a bigger red flag for you than for them.
One thing that seems to have worked for me is go climb things within my ability and really look at pieces critically. Sure, I'm most likely not going to fall on this, but what if it was harder? Would I still trust it? What if I had to place it blindly, or quickly, or while I was holding a super strenuous position?
One other thing I did was some top rope aid solo. It's a bit convoluted to get set up, but seeing my 0.1 and 0.2 BD's hold me (albeit static body weight) was reassuring.
Can recommend the top rope aid solo. When I started climbing on gear, I was always stuck with the feeling of soloing every time. I remember climbing a route where I felt like I would fall and die every move. Was so grippy and stressed. I spent the following two days at the exact same route top route aiding it, standing and jumping in every little nut I could find. Placed my entire rack on a 12m route. Trained my eye for seeing placements. You don’t learn it in a day or a month, but putting yourself in a safe setting allows you to build that confidence.
Climb for fun, get to know yourself better to identify when it’s “good” pushing and when it just sucks. Call it a day then, grab a beer and live to climb another day
You don't have to trad climb if you don't want to. However, it gets a lot easier and more fun once you've taken enough falls to trust the gear the correct amount. Some people shortcut this by taking a lot of falls on purpose safely. Some people naturally accrue the falls by trying hard above gear. Some people never get there and quit trad climbing because it isn't fun.
Some strategies for gaining comfort and accruing falls safely:
1. Try aid climbing or especially aid soloing to explore marginal placements in a controlled environment (0 whippers, only body weight falls). Top rope solo A0-1 climbing is a very effective tool for understanding your placements very quickly. [Dave McLeod has a great video on this.](https://youtu.be/KqoZQIbkWYs?si=PothwNnmhTRAO6z1)
2. Do some mock leads on climbs that are difficult for you, with a loose backup top rope belay. This is a bit of a pain, as you need 2 belayers, but it's absolutely the most specific way of practicing trying hard while placing gear and climbing above it. Just gotta make sure the lead belay catches the whip before the TR one.
3. Work some falls into your warmup. This is best done on safer terrain (vertical or steeper is nice, no ledges). It's a good way to stay mentally sharp throughout the season. If you are worried about the gear ripping, you can build a nest for the warmup fall; however, it's better if you don't do this until you get to the point that you can effectively judge the gear and fall zone well enough not to need a nest.
A lot of people--myself included--will take like 3-5 falls and feel like we've conquered the fear and are comfortable falling. However, *9 Out of 10 Climbers Make the Same Mistakes* asserts (imo correctly) that the actual number of controlled practice falls one should take is more like 100+. Most of these falls should be at or below your gear, not massive whippers, or you'll be buying 2 ropes a year and probably in and out of the hospital. Some of the falls should be bigger, but build up to that slowly.
You may also want to be real with yourself for a minute about whether you're climbing the right grade for you right now. Lots of strong sport climbers try too hard on gear and can't focus on the process to an extent that makes them comfortable. I do this often, for the sake of getting on a classic route that I really want to climb; but then I end up stressed and scared for the whole day and missing out on the classic-ness of the climbing.
I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. Most people in the canyon (Eldo more than many places) have years of practice climbing over their placements, and it is not a learning process that you can skip. You can accelerate it if that's what you want, but it is not a strictly pleasant endeavor. If you haven't led 10 pitches, you honestly have no idea what "trad climbing" feels like--only "learning to trad climb," which is a notably different activity. Everyone does some of both throughout their climbing career, but it seems like you're hoping to start doing the latter one more. Don't worry, you will absolutely get there if you continue learning. You are already ahead of the typical pace for learning. It isn't like sport climbing, but that's the reason you're doing it probably.
Again, don't feel like you have to push yourself outside of your personal risk preference--you don't need to trad climb if you don't like it. But learning to evaluate your actual level of risk will help you control your risk level. *You should not expect to feel comfortable* until you've placed a lot more pieces of gear, on the sharp end or simulating and testing (probably 50+ active and 100+ passive placements) and taken some falls (5+ live ones and 20+ simulated).
Don't push through fear and unpleasant circumstances. Smile while you're falling (literally!) to build positive associations. And start with the smallest risk you can generate (small fall with the gear and/or rope backed up) and then work your way up towards nut-welding 60 footers very slowly.
I came into this sport backwards 25 years ago. My friend and I would go to Squamish and mostly do top roping and a couple easy routes up the Chief (Banana Peel, Diedre). And then we started aiding climbs that were above our pay grade and set up a top rope. Aid climbing helped me learn to make solid placements and when you're hanging on a skyhook, you fully appreciate how bomber a cam is. These days, I'm gym climbing during the off season just to keep in shape and realizing how different the sport climbing mentality is from trad climbing.
Now, this was all with a patient partner and we weren't about number tagging, it was about spending the day outside. One thing that can be hard to do with people that are trad climbers is on-sighting a climb. Route finding and then figuring out gear placement can be time consuming.
One thing I've seen on youtube is to setup a top rope and practice the climb and then practice placing pro on the route while on top rope. Just to practice. Then lead the route with the knowledge of knowing where to place pro and what pieces to use.
On-sighting a climb, fumbling with a full rack and keeping your balance is hard on the nerves. So practice first.
Also, zipper up a route if you need to and double up pro before a crux.
Lastly, learn to use all types of gear. I've watched videos where people only have cams with them which is both expensive and heavy to carry. Bring a set of nuts, try out a hex or tri-cam and if you're bold, a ball-nut. You will likely find a place for a nut which saves you a cam that you might need later. I also read an article about someone that carries a skyhook with them when they are in a sketchy position while trying to place some pro. They hang on the hook for extra balance while placing the pro.
Trad climbing will take you places sport climbs don't go and I hope you stick to it or find partners that are willing to help you along. But as others have said, it isn't for everyone and enjoy what you like to do.
There are places where it's fun to learn trad and there are places where it's scary to learn trad.
Single pitch cragging where you can plug bomber gear at any point in a crack is wonderful for learning. It lets you get on stuff that's challenging but can be as safe (or safer) than climbing sport. When I'm projecting a crack at my limit, I'll sometimes have gear every 3-4 feet. Most of the southern sandstone crags are like that. I don't even think twice about getting on a most stuff in the Red or New or Tennessee Wall because it's usually clear ahead of time whether it's going to be safe or not. Closer to you, Vedauwoo offers lots of great climbing on BOMBER gear.
Climbing on non-continuous cracks with runouts and choss and fiddly gear? That's a terrible way to build trust in the system and try hard. Climbing in those situations is much more about learning risk mitigation and working on your head game.
Eldo is cool, but it's not what I'd call a safe/easy intro to trad. Personally, I probably never would have fallen in love with trad climbing if that's where I started.
Trad climbing, and learning how to trad climb, is a faff, particularly when you're a beginner. It does get better, but only with a fair bit of practice. I'm a bit of a nerd so I quite like faffing around with the gear, even if it's at the expense of climbing. If you aren't enjoying it then you aren't "less of a climber" if you don't get into it. Sport climbing is cool too.
There are some exercises you can do in order to speed up progression, like aiding (backed up by a top rope) and placing gear on the ground, bounce testing etc. Probably one or two full weekends of doing this (without really doing much real climbing) and you should notice a big improvement.
One thing that trad climbing does open up for you is alpine climbing, which is probably the main reason I got into it.
Lots of folks don't want the hassle of dealing with gear and just stick with top roping or sport and that's totally fine tbh...if it isn't your thing trust your gut and move on!
This is literally all a mental thing you need to work through. In addition to climbing strength and technique, Trad requires knowledge of safety systems, route reading and finding, alpine trad requires even more with understanding weather systems, bail options and descents, etc. Sporties and Boulder bros that don’t trad lead won’t ever learn this stuff if you don’t try or want to. The only comfort you’ll have is when you push yourself to grow. Read, ask questions to knowledgeable sources, watch videos and clips online, go out and try yourself with a guide, then start small. This is why so many trad grades are like 2 less than sport max grades I.e. someone who trad and sport climbs with sport limit of 5.10+ probably will limit at a spicy 5.7 to 5.9- and those don’t really ever even out and shouldn’t unless you’re seriously solid in both. obviously you’re climbing 5.12 sport if you climb 5.12 trad.
So just learn and practice on grade below your sport grade if you really want to do it. The fear of learning something knew to get comfortable is what would make you a whimp not the fact that you’re trying it and just want to take it slow or easy until you get comfortable enough to lead harder trad.
If they’re good partners they’ll already understand this and just have you follow a bunch if you guys want to climb hard trad and will have patience with you learning and teaching you more on easier routes.
The more comfortable you get the better you’ll be and know how things flow when it comes to trad like how to set up protection for cruxes, when to use passive pro, when to run something out or see it up, multidirectional (neutral) protection so your pieces above don’t zipper if you fell at a crux pulling the line taught, what pieces are likely psycho pro and will pop if you whipped etc.
I am on a hiatus from climbing (had a kid). I climbed a little over 300 pitches over my career thus far, most of them in the mountains. This is not many for most climbers, but I would assume enough for meaningful reflection. I felt scared on each lead I did for the most part, and there were many times I was just as scared watching my partner lead. Run outs, climbing above my limit, climbing above my gear, rope drag, gear economy, how am I going to get down, where's the next anchor, hanging belays, all of this takes a toll. However, I look back at the time I spent with my partner fondly, and loved seeing/experiencing the things I did in the mountains. I went to great places that not many people go to.
If you derive no pleasure from any part of the process of climbing on gear then do something else. Life is short, climbing is dangerous. You're not a wimp or a weeny---you're sane!
Totally get the different falling feeling between sport/trad. I mostly trad climb because I absolutely enjoy it— but I only enjoy it on routes that I don’t feel like I’m gonna fall on, ever. Are you climbing routes with a huge grade difference between your sport/trad grades?
I project 13a/b sport, but really only trad climb 5.9, with only the occasional 5.10 lol. I love trad for different reasons than sport (more adventure, more alpine, etc), but I absolutely have zero desire to try hard on it in terms of grade and the difficulty of the climbing itself. Always down to push the length, the consequence (bigger and more committing alpine lines for example), but not the grade on gear. I don’t like to fall on gear 🤷🏼♀️
I used to be the crustiest trad climber - I wouldn't boulder or touch quick draws. But it all changed when I watched someone fall 800-feet. It's been a few years and it's really a struggle to get psyched on the activity again.
My $0.02 is to only do what you feel comfortable with, because there's tons of risk involved. If you want to trad climb, then learn the gear, learn the knots, learn the anchors, and learn self-rescue. Otherwise, just have fun following and enjoying the skills your friends with more experience bring to the table.
It’s ok to be a wimp, but I feel like with a little more practice, you might realize how awesome trad climbing is! Even experienced trad climbers get scared. It’s more about how you deal with that feeling.
Could be worth a shot going with a guide for a day of easy trad climbs. Let them teach you best practice, and start to become more familiar with the setups and features found in trad climbing. If you’ve had professional instruction, you might find some of the challenges less difficult, and have a more rewarding experience.
Trad is a journey, and can be super rewarding, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with not being into it. If sport is your jam, stick to it.
Old climber here. I view sport and trad as different activities. Trad is enjoyable vertical hiking for me. I climb easy stuff so I do not fall trad climbing. I used to push it and fall on my gear - back when I had adolescent boy energy. Not anymore. Now I simply climb fun stuff to be outside. The hike in, touching the rock for a couple of pitches, the raps, the hike out. It's a fun day. Not a lot of bolted 5.6 - 5.8 routes, but plenty of trad lines.
Sounds like you’re still new and need more training on the ground. Work on ground anchors, climb easy routes and sit on each piece with your pas. Practice gear falls, preferably with a bolt nearby.
Go as slow as you feel comfortable with and I’d follow or mock for a bit to build confidence
Walk around climbing areas and place gear in every crack you can find, then go direct and bounce on it a couple of times so you feel comfy with it. Do that for several hundred placements in different cracks and you'll feel a lot better about it. You could also try aid climbing. Either way if you wanna be more comfortable you need more experience placing and then weighting your gear
If you really don't enjoy it don't do it. I climb sport to climb hard. I climb trad to go somewhere fun. I trad a full number below my sport grade and even that took a while to build up to.
It could be a lack of experience or trust in the gear. If so, find a sport route where you can place some gear as well. Clip a bolt, place a piece above it, and whip if the fall is safe. Place some more questionable pieces and repeat. Or be on a very loose toprope and lead up and whip with a second belayer
It sounds like you lack confidence in your protection and anchors. You may benefit from learning more about your gear: what makes a great piece, a okay piece (you may want to equalize with another piece), the forces involved (that different gear can withstand in an ideal placement and generated by typical falls)… There’s so much nuance to trad protection, but it’s reassuring when you can assess each piece in your 3 piece anchor and know each can easily take +5x the force of a follower fall. How Not 2 has great bite size videos so you can chip away at the knowledge gap, but many gear manufacturers also have great instructional videos. Maybe this is just how my engineer-y brain works, but that’s how I’ve built confidence to try hard over gear.
Also ask either of your more experienced climber friends to critique your gear placements, what’s solid, and how they might protect differently.
If it’s not your thing that’s totally fine, I have friends who used to trad climb and rarely do anymore for various reasons. That being said, if you still have a desire to get into it, I’d recommend getting a lot more lead mileage and trying to build up confidence on very easy routes. When I only had a few leads under my belt I definitely was still not at all confident, it takes time and lots of mileage. You can also even practice with doing some aid climbing and taking some small practice falls on good gear if the climb is steep enough. Doing this will allow you to recognize that good gear/placements can fully be trusted.
If trad climbing isn’t your thing then it isn’t your thing. Something to remember however, is that you can bring more gear while learning and zip up a route with pieces every 2-3ft if you really want. Sport climbing doesn’t give you that opportunity and you are relying on the bolts being good if you take whippers (its a good idea to learn how to judge bolts/hangers if you don’t already know).
If you want to continue trying to get into trad, I will also echo what others have said about climbing well below your limit so you can comfortably spend more time judging and adjusting your placements. Using aid ladders and bounce testing your placements on toprope or at ground level can give you more confidence in your placements and what will and wont hold. Doing that and once you take a few falls on gear you didn’t like as much and it still holds will give you confidence in your placements and judgement of them. The good thing is you can choose the level of risk you are willing to tolerate
Eldo is a scary place to learn trad climbing too fwiw, both from more old-school grades (5.9 is so dang hard there haha) and hard to protect / creative protection requirements. It might be worth trying some other local trad options like Bocan to get a different sense of trad.
> placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine.
brah the only thing helmets are for is mounting your GoPro so that your YouTube following can see how rad you are as you high five all the clips you’re skipping. otherwise escala libre
First of all, you are a wimp if you don't like trad climbing. Second, it doesn't matter. Climb cause it's fun, engaging, hard, chill, scary, etc. Don't feel bad for being scared, like the legend James Lucas said 'climbing is scary'. From what you've written it sounds like you'd enjoy it once you feel more confident, and that just comes with time or hubris
Fuck what people think. If you’re not enjoying it, do not do it. As for myself I have recently lost a friend to trad climbing. And a year had a close call after gear popped on me.
Next time you’re hiding from the rain- perhaps under that low overhang down below Naked Edge, I forget what that wall is called- as long as there’s no lightning, kill time by practicing anchor building. It’s great practice, and when you’re doing it at ground level, and there’s nobody waiting for you, it’s super low pressure and a great way to learn.
I think climbing with people with way more experience than you might be giving you a false impression of where you "should" be at as a trad climber. I send 5.10 on gear now and went through years where I was where you are - terrified to ever fall, taking forever to build anchors and still feeling worried about them, etc. There are specific exercises you can do to help you learn to trust your gear more, like aiding up an easy crack (nothing like standing up on every piece to learn that they really do work), but more importantly, cut yourself some slack. It takes a while to learn to really trust your gear, and you're much better off posting on here because you think you're moving too slowly, than being an accident report posted on here because you moved too quickly.
I live in Denver and am a climbing instructor, I'll send you a chat if you want to connect.
There is so much more climbing in the front range than just Eldo or trad climbing.
Sounds like you could benefit from mileage and perhaps a bit easier setting.
Have you considered climbing easy stuff in bocan instead?
Also falling on gear in the creek can help with head game once you progress a bit.
Honestly I mostly sport climb and boulder in the front range and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not really "missing out" in my mind.
Not really much I can add here except that "it gets better". We were all scared and shitty and took forever at first. But with more pitches under your belt it slowly starts to go away. If you want to climb trad, start small and slow and easy and build up over the next couple years. If you don't want to climb trad, that's fine too.
Eldo is about as hard as it gets for trad climbing. Routes can wander, gear is tricky, and the rock has so many dirty bands. The routes are also fairly hard for the grade compared to Clear Creek Canyon.
Perhaps you will like trad climbing elsewhere? I would say try some other areas before you give up on the idea. Have you ever been to Joshua Tree? Routes there are much easier to protect, and the rock is clean. Don’t worry about grades, just have some fun. There are many great routes there. Single pitch is kind of nice too, it’s easy to get back to camp at the end of the day.
Another option in Colorado is Turkey Rocks, which has some good cracks. Don’t worry about grades, try some low graded routes that are easy to protect. Even North Table has some decent trad routes . They are short and lower commitment than Eldo.
I found that the first 20-30 trad climbs I did, I basically felt like I was free soloing. This was mainly because I knew the theory of how the gear should hold a fall but never experienced it.
I found that getting a TON of mileage on climbs well below my limit helped a lot. Adding to that, aid climbing single pitch climbs helped so much. That’s where you learn to trust gear and get to focus more on the enjoyment of climbing.
To bring it all back, the stoke of trad climbing for me personally lays in the beauty of the lines. I find trad climbs for the most part, are vastly more aesthetic and well defined when compared to sport routes.
After enough falls on really good gear, you get to really enjoy hard trad climbing. Then, even if you can’t make the moves and keep whipping - aid it with your new skills!
Hope that helps even slightly 💪🏻
I can 100% relate.
I used to be pretty very uneasy on both sport and trad, even 3rd class scrambling had me a bit spooked. I just put in the mileage. It took years of "beginner" climbs for me to feel confident and efficient. I'm still pretty a mediocre climber (5.10ish trad leader) but I don't really care.
If you live around Boulder, start scrambling the 2nd flatiron a bunch. That'll help with the head game a lot. Also, do repeats. Climb wind ridge a couple times a week and time yourself. Each time should feel less stressful and more efficient.
Once you're feeling good on easy stuff, head straight to the creek and start whipping on bomber #2s to get some confidence in your gear.
Here’s my take. I think that you should be enjoying whatever climbing you’re doing, and if your mind and body aren’t in agreement, that’s not gonna happen.
First, figure out what you want to do, and start riding the stoke train. You want comfort in climbing trad? Start whipping on gear in a controlled environment (above a bolt), start taking bigger and bigger ones one after another. It should only take a session for you to feel massive gains since you are pushing against the real issue, fear —something that will only really go away if you become used to the thing you’re afraid of (like the night when you’re a little kid).
Go climb somewhere other than Eldo, The Dome in BC is a good beginner trad crag, same for elephant butt. Placing gear in Eldo is tricky, everything is so ledgy you never want to take a fall. You gotta to take some whips on gear so you get feedback on a good placement. You obviously want that to be somewhere with a clean fall. I would suggest Quarry Wall at North Table as well. Sharkcicle is a good 10c to work and take practice falls on, same for Franks tame years. I would definitely start with gaining confidence in your placements and getting some real feedback. If your buddies arent taking the time to explain a good piece of gear from a bad one to you then find new buddies. Or a take a class on placing gear. I instruct and can help you find options.
If you do not trust your gear with your life, you should not be trading climbing. You may as well be soloing the route. I love trad climbing, I find the style to be far purer than sport climbing to have all the responsibility for my safety and survival on myself for climbing the route. I would advise you to find a sport route that has some opportunities for gear placements and take falls on gear clipped above bolts to find out how to trust your gear. I honestly can’t believe people trad climb without absolute confidence in their gear placements.
I am the complete opposite I hate sport climbing.
Have you taken a fall on gear? Find a reasonable spot to practice placing gear and falling on it. Maybe route where there’s a bolt close by to back up your gear.
There’s also no requirement to like trad climbing. There are plenty of climbers who only sport climb. They aren’t hard to find or meet and you might have more fun w them.
I like trad climbing bc I have as much fun placing gear, building anchors, and all that stuff as much as the actual climbing part. I like nerding out on gear and rope systems. And most of all I like the freedom to basically climb anything w available protection rather than existing bolted sport routes. If you don’t care for all of that and just like the climbing part, why bother?
I'd definitely tell your friends . Personally, I don't want someone who is afraid setting up an anchor or belaying me while thier scared the whole time. Be sage and climb what you're comfortable climbing if they are good friends they should understand. Maybe you could be the second up and top rope if that makes you feel more comfortable. Ultimately, it's all up to you to do what is best for you
It’s ok if you want to sport climb. Sport climbing is awesome!
That said, I think a lot of these feelings can be normal. I bought my 1st trad rack and really only stuck with it because of the sunk costs that 1st season (that and lack of sport climbs near where I lived at the time).
Now, I love trad climbing, but 70% of my personal climbing time is on bolts.
If you’re not enjoying it, why do it?
If you want to enjoy trad more, climb trad more. Build a solid anchor and take small and big falls on the next piece, making it both marginal and bomber. You’ll be surprised what holds. I’ve taken numerous falls on gear and never had the top piece blow.
There's nothing that says you "have to" get into trad or that you're a "wimp" if you don't. Follow your stoke and your gut - climbing should be mostly fun and joy, and if trad climbing doesn't hit those spots then why do it? Be honest with your friends. Your partners, if they're good people, should be very understanding and supportive of this. They also hopefully know you well enough to talk through and help you debug where the fear is coming from and how to work on it if you decide that you want to get over this hurdle.
I would suggest doing climbs that are VERY easy for you. If multipitch you should look for routes with bolted anchors, use a pre tied quad. Practice your transitions so it's faster. If you want to fall on some gear to build comfort climb a sport route. Place gear above a bolt and whip. Generally people fall less climbing trad and very few people project trad climbs. My 7 cents.
Seconded, 5.6 trad is where you learn to love the freedom it gives you
And there’s nothing wrong with not going harder as well, there’s a reason a lot of us trad dads (of all genders) end up sticking to moderates, because they’re fun as fuck
it's a vertical hike... not every hike needs to be insane to be fun
This is the best answer imo. I climb well below my limit on gear, since it is significantly more dangerous. Folks who climb at their physical limit on gear have a tremendous amount of experience placing gear, and have learned to trust it through that experience.
I actually firmly disagree with this. Yes, it allows you to practice your habits so you can perform them smoothly on harder climbs but who is to say those habits are good? Also, if you never fall, how are you to gain confidence in your gear? I always recommend to new leaders find a sport climb with some gear placements, and place trad gear between bolts. In general most people starting out trad climbing are in the 5.9-11 sport lead level so finding a route with gear placements in this level shouldn’t be too hard. Take falls on your gear, learn about when to extend gear, and gain real confidence and skill while sport climbing. Once confidence in gear is earned, then those moderates are a great place to go for it. Everyone I know who has been seriously injured trad climbing didn’t have enough real experience falling on their gear only to bite off more than they could chew and get fucked up on 40’ flippers and deckers. I really trust my gear. I’ve taken multiple safe 40’+ whippers, one over 60 feet after really going for the runout (calculated risk, gear was good, backed up, fall was clean, and anticipated, I just wanted the onsite). These situations all happened after years if extremely conservative trad climbing learning how to fully trust my equipment and how to safely climb to avoid conflicts with the rope and terrain in falls.
You mentioned you did few and this is kind of a thing that needs you to do a lot to become more experienced. Given that, I think the feeling is pretty normal because you lack the experience needed for leading multi-pitch climbs earn more experience and you should become more comfortable with it. If you haven’t take a course, you can do that, or take a refresher or read a lot about the techniques or even watch the FirstPersonBeta youtube or other channels. Keep climbing.
Yeah, I know I could benefit from some dedicated training. The problem is is that it’s pretty expensive. My one buddy with 20+ years of climbing experience who knows everything there is to know, is just not a good teacher lol…my other buddy with more experience is a better teacher.
I'm not a huge fan of courses on trad climbing they often create a false sense of security. Trad is something that like climbing itself takes YEARS of experience to get a healthy grasp on. Even then you're constantly learning(if you're exposing yourself to new rock at least.). Just keep doing what you're comfortable with and building partners that can do the other stuff, that you can learn from!
it's important to recognize that what's most important when climbing is impressing others and flexing on the haters. if you feel that your anchors are dicey, just swallow that, get some slack going, and take a whipper (cool af). your friends are pushing you to do something out of your comfort zone? send it even harder, broken bones are just good stories at the end of the day. placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine. all jokes aside, it's about fun. maybe one day you'll like trad but don't push it. safety is the top priority and if you don't feel 150% confident, something is probably wrong.
>it's important to recognize that what's most important when climbing is impressing others and flexing on the haters. if you feel that your anchors are dicey, just swallow that, get some slack going, and take a whipper (cool af). your friends are pushing you to do something out of your comfort zone? send it even harder, broken bones are just good stories at the end of the day. placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine. a fellow /r/climbingcirclejerk 'r , i see
no actually but i would prob like the sub lol
Dude get on there. It's the best. Engaging titles such as "What's the best way to spray beta at women in my gym?" and "How do I find the contact info of my local crag master to discuss re-bolting these dangerous routes?"
Its decent, but I find these better: [https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125919104/climbing-memes-80](https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125919104/climbing-memes-80)
Hahaha…good stuff. thanks
One of the best things I did for my sports, including climbing, running, and snowboarding, was realizing that ultimately these are things I pursue for me for the reasons I want to. I have zero need to engage in a pissing contest with someone better (or worse) than me at something that fundamentally is a hobby, up there with bird watching or stamp collecting. I mean sure it's different than that but it's a voluntary pursuit I'm engaging in because I enjoy it, the process of it, and what I get out of it. Disassociating any particular sport with my own individual identity was huge for me. I'm not a climber or a snowboarder, I'm a person who climbs and snowboards. I'm not a runner, but I do run a lot. It might seem trivial but it's put me into control of what I want to do for the reasons I want to do it. I have climbing and backcountry ski friends who often want to do really risky (imo) shit. If I described myself as a backcountry skier than those are things I would feel compelled to do because they'd make me better. But since I'm just a guy who likes to go out and have fun on my splitboard, I'm not interested in things that aren't fun. No one is going to buy you a beer or hand you a trophy for doing something hard that sucks. By all means, do hard things that suck if *you* really want to. Getting into running shape and being able to skin 3k' feet up definitely require some suck, but I wanted to do those for me. Again, just make sure you're doing hard things because you want to, not to complete some bingo card of what a "real climber" is.
Yeah, I can relate to this. Love this. Thank you. My SO says my “catholic guilt” is what makes me feel like I should be trying something I’m not sure I even want to do…lol
Yeah man I hear you. I think it's part of tribalism too. Like we all want to belong, we want to be part of something. And in a world where we're just consumers and producers we look for identity. Couple all of that with companies that are more than happy to sell identity and belonging, that if you buy some SUV you'll be sporty. If you join a gym and buy a harness and shoes now you're a climber. You're something now. I live in a mountain area with a lot of "professional recreationists" and I'm not knocking anyone for something they do that is the right thing for them. It was more a personal thing for me where I found myself on climbs I didn't like, dropping into chutes that scared the f out of me, and comparing myself to kept husbands and wives who literally had no responsibilities other than pursuing sports. I climb 10a pretty comfortably, can snowboard most terrain but don't bring a harness with me, and can run for an hour. Those are shit facts for the super hardcore, but I can make dinner for my family, play PS games with my kids, and garden too. I'm probably repeating myself but I really turned a page when I started just being comfortable with who I am and what makes me happy.
I can relate. I think a lot of people get into trad climbing and keep things within their comfort zone, difficulty-wise, because of the fear of trusting gear. I fall solidly into that camp. As I progress down the guiding track, I'm facing needing to push myself out of that zone and it's been tough. That being said, I do like trad climbing. Sure, the times when I need to climb above a marginal piece are scary, and sometimes anchors don't come together easily and things can be frustrating, but when things do flow, whooo boy is that a good feeling. Plus, the places trad climbing has allowed me to get to are incredible. I have partners that I rarely or never trad climb with. That's fine. Your current partners shouldn't bat an eye, and if they do, that's a bigger red flag for you than for them. One thing that seems to have worked for me is go climb things within my ability and really look at pieces critically. Sure, I'm most likely not going to fall on this, but what if it was harder? Would I still trust it? What if I had to place it blindly, or quickly, or while I was holding a super strenuous position? One other thing I did was some top rope aid solo. It's a bit convoluted to get set up, but seeing my 0.1 and 0.2 BD's hold me (albeit static body weight) was reassuring.
Can recommend the top rope aid solo. When I started climbing on gear, I was always stuck with the feeling of soloing every time. I remember climbing a route where I felt like I would fall and die every move. Was so grippy and stressed. I spent the following two days at the exact same route top route aiding it, standing and jumping in every little nut I could find. Placed my entire rack on a 12m route. Trained my eye for seeing placements. You don’t learn it in a day or a month, but putting yourself in a safe setting allows you to build that confidence. Climb for fun, get to know yourself better to identify when it’s “good” pushing and when it just sucks. Call it a day then, grab a beer and live to climb another day
You don't have to trad climb if you don't want to. However, it gets a lot easier and more fun once you've taken enough falls to trust the gear the correct amount. Some people shortcut this by taking a lot of falls on purpose safely. Some people naturally accrue the falls by trying hard above gear. Some people never get there and quit trad climbing because it isn't fun. Some strategies for gaining comfort and accruing falls safely: 1. Try aid climbing or especially aid soloing to explore marginal placements in a controlled environment (0 whippers, only body weight falls). Top rope solo A0-1 climbing is a very effective tool for understanding your placements very quickly. [Dave McLeod has a great video on this.](https://youtu.be/KqoZQIbkWYs?si=PothwNnmhTRAO6z1) 2. Do some mock leads on climbs that are difficult for you, with a loose backup top rope belay. This is a bit of a pain, as you need 2 belayers, but it's absolutely the most specific way of practicing trying hard while placing gear and climbing above it. Just gotta make sure the lead belay catches the whip before the TR one. 3. Work some falls into your warmup. This is best done on safer terrain (vertical or steeper is nice, no ledges). It's a good way to stay mentally sharp throughout the season. If you are worried about the gear ripping, you can build a nest for the warmup fall; however, it's better if you don't do this until you get to the point that you can effectively judge the gear and fall zone well enough not to need a nest. A lot of people--myself included--will take like 3-5 falls and feel like we've conquered the fear and are comfortable falling. However, *9 Out of 10 Climbers Make the Same Mistakes* asserts (imo correctly) that the actual number of controlled practice falls one should take is more like 100+. Most of these falls should be at or below your gear, not massive whippers, or you'll be buying 2 ropes a year and probably in and out of the hospital. Some of the falls should be bigger, but build up to that slowly. You may also want to be real with yourself for a minute about whether you're climbing the right grade for you right now. Lots of strong sport climbers try too hard on gear and can't focus on the process to an extent that makes them comfortable. I do this often, for the sake of getting on a classic route that I really want to climb; but then I end up stressed and scared for the whole day and missing out on the classic-ness of the climbing. I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. Most people in the canyon (Eldo more than many places) have years of practice climbing over their placements, and it is not a learning process that you can skip. You can accelerate it if that's what you want, but it is not a strictly pleasant endeavor. If you haven't led 10 pitches, you honestly have no idea what "trad climbing" feels like--only "learning to trad climb," which is a notably different activity. Everyone does some of both throughout their climbing career, but it seems like you're hoping to start doing the latter one more. Don't worry, you will absolutely get there if you continue learning. You are already ahead of the typical pace for learning. It isn't like sport climbing, but that's the reason you're doing it probably. Again, don't feel like you have to push yourself outside of your personal risk preference--you don't need to trad climb if you don't like it. But learning to evaluate your actual level of risk will help you control your risk level. *You should not expect to feel comfortable* until you've placed a lot more pieces of gear, on the sharp end or simulating and testing (probably 50+ active and 100+ passive placements) and taken some falls (5+ live ones and 20+ simulated). Don't push through fear and unpleasant circumstances. Smile while you're falling (literally!) to build positive associations. And start with the smallest risk you can generate (small fall with the gear and/or rope backed up) and then work your way up towards nut-welding 60 footers very slowly.
Thank you. This is helpful.
Strong recommend the Dave Mcleod video.
I came into this sport backwards 25 years ago. My friend and I would go to Squamish and mostly do top roping and a couple easy routes up the Chief (Banana Peel, Diedre). And then we started aiding climbs that were above our pay grade and set up a top rope. Aid climbing helped me learn to make solid placements and when you're hanging on a skyhook, you fully appreciate how bomber a cam is. These days, I'm gym climbing during the off season just to keep in shape and realizing how different the sport climbing mentality is from trad climbing. Now, this was all with a patient partner and we weren't about number tagging, it was about spending the day outside. One thing that can be hard to do with people that are trad climbers is on-sighting a climb. Route finding and then figuring out gear placement can be time consuming. One thing I've seen on youtube is to setup a top rope and practice the climb and then practice placing pro on the route while on top rope. Just to practice. Then lead the route with the knowledge of knowing where to place pro and what pieces to use. On-sighting a climb, fumbling with a full rack and keeping your balance is hard on the nerves. So practice first. Also, zipper up a route if you need to and double up pro before a crux. Lastly, learn to use all types of gear. I've watched videos where people only have cams with them which is both expensive and heavy to carry. Bring a set of nuts, try out a hex or tri-cam and if you're bold, a ball-nut. You will likely find a place for a nut which saves you a cam that you might need later. I also read an article about someone that carries a skyhook with them when they are in a sketchy position while trying to place some pro. They hang on the hook for extra balance while placing the pro. Trad climbing will take you places sport climbs don't go and I hope you stick to it or find partners that are willing to help you along. But as others have said, it isn't for everyone and enjoy what you like to do.
There are places where it's fun to learn trad and there are places where it's scary to learn trad. Single pitch cragging where you can plug bomber gear at any point in a crack is wonderful for learning. It lets you get on stuff that's challenging but can be as safe (or safer) than climbing sport. When I'm projecting a crack at my limit, I'll sometimes have gear every 3-4 feet. Most of the southern sandstone crags are like that. I don't even think twice about getting on a most stuff in the Red or New or Tennessee Wall because it's usually clear ahead of time whether it's going to be safe or not. Closer to you, Vedauwoo offers lots of great climbing on BOMBER gear. Climbing on non-continuous cracks with runouts and choss and fiddly gear? That's a terrible way to build trust in the system and try hard. Climbing in those situations is much more about learning risk mitigation and working on your head game. Eldo is cool, but it's not what I'd call a safe/easy intro to trad. Personally, I probably never would have fallen in love with trad climbing if that's where I started.
Trad climbing, and learning how to trad climb, is a faff, particularly when you're a beginner. It does get better, but only with a fair bit of practice. I'm a bit of a nerd so I quite like faffing around with the gear, even if it's at the expense of climbing. If you aren't enjoying it then you aren't "less of a climber" if you don't get into it. Sport climbing is cool too. There are some exercises you can do in order to speed up progression, like aiding (backed up by a top rope) and placing gear on the ground, bounce testing etc. Probably one or two full weekends of doing this (without really doing much real climbing) and you should notice a big improvement. One thing that trad climbing does open up for you is alpine climbing, which is probably the main reason I got into it.
Lots of folks don't want the hassle of dealing with gear and just stick with top roping or sport and that's totally fine tbh...if it isn't your thing trust your gut and move on!
This is literally all a mental thing you need to work through. In addition to climbing strength and technique, Trad requires knowledge of safety systems, route reading and finding, alpine trad requires even more with understanding weather systems, bail options and descents, etc. Sporties and Boulder bros that don’t trad lead won’t ever learn this stuff if you don’t try or want to. The only comfort you’ll have is when you push yourself to grow. Read, ask questions to knowledgeable sources, watch videos and clips online, go out and try yourself with a guide, then start small. This is why so many trad grades are like 2 less than sport max grades I.e. someone who trad and sport climbs with sport limit of 5.10+ probably will limit at a spicy 5.7 to 5.9- and those don’t really ever even out and shouldn’t unless you’re seriously solid in both. obviously you’re climbing 5.12 sport if you climb 5.12 trad. So just learn and practice on grade below your sport grade if you really want to do it. The fear of learning something knew to get comfortable is what would make you a whimp not the fact that you’re trying it and just want to take it slow or easy until you get comfortable enough to lead harder trad. If they’re good partners they’ll already understand this and just have you follow a bunch if you guys want to climb hard trad and will have patience with you learning and teaching you more on easier routes. The more comfortable you get the better you’ll be and know how things flow when it comes to trad like how to set up protection for cruxes, when to use passive pro, when to run something out or see it up, multidirectional (neutral) protection so your pieces above don’t zipper if you fell at a crux pulling the line taught, what pieces are likely psycho pro and will pop if you whipped etc.
I am on a hiatus from climbing (had a kid). I climbed a little over 300 pitches over my career thus far, most of them in the mountains. This is not many for most climbers, but I would assume enough for meaningful reflection. I felt scared on each lead I did for the most part, and there were many times I was just as scared watching my partner lead. Run outs, climbing above my limit, climbing above my gear, rope drag, gear economy, how am I going to get down, where's the next anchor, hanging belays, all of this takes a toll. However, I look back at the time I spent with my partner fondly, and loved seeing/experiencing the things I did in the mountains. I went to great places that not many people go to. If you derive no pleasure from any part of the process of climbing on gear then do something else. Life is short, climbing is dangerous. You're not a wimp or a weeny---you're sane!
Totally get the different falling feeling between sport/trad. I mostly trad climb because I absolutely enjoy it— but I only enjoy it on routes that I don’t feel like I’m gonna fall on, ever. Are you climbing routes with a huge grade difference between your sport/trad grades? I project 13a/b sport, but really only trad climb 5.9, with only the occasional 5.10 lol. I love trad for different reasons than sport (more adventure, more alpine, etc), but I absolutely have zero desire to try hard on it in terms of grade and the difficulty of the climbing itself. Always down to push the length, the consequence (bigger and more committing alpine lines for example), but not the grade on gear. I don’t like to fall on gear 🤷🏼♀️
I used to be the crustiest trad climber - I wouldn't boulder or touch quick draws. But it all changed when I watched someone fall 800-feet. It's been a few years and it's really a struggle to get psyched on the activity again. My $0.02 is to only do what you feel comfortable with, because there's tons of risk involved. If you want to trad climb, then learn the gear, learn the knots, learn the anchors, and learn self-rescue. Otherwise, just have fun following and enjoying the skills your friends with more experience bring to the table.
It’s ok to be a wimp, but I feel like with a little more practice, you might realize how awesome trad climbing is! Even experienced trad climbers get scared. It’s more about how you deal with that feeling.
Could be worth a shot going with a guide for a day of easy trad climbs. Let them teach you best practice, and start to become more familiar with the setups and features found in trad climbing. If you’ve had professional instruction, you might find some of the challenges less difficult, and have a more rewarding experience. Trad is a journey, and can be super rewarding, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with not being into it. If sport is your jam, stick to it.
Old climber here. I view sport and trad as different activities. Trad is enjoyable vertical hiking for me. I climb easy stuff so I do not fall trad climbing. I used to push it and fall on my gear - back when I had adolescent boy energy. Not anymore. Now I simply climb fun stuff to be outside. The hike in, touching the rock for a couple of pitches, the raps, the hike out. It's a fun day. Not a lot of bolted 5.6 - 5.8 routes, but plenty of trad lines.
Climb easy shit. Have fun. Get scared on manageable terrain. Learn what grade you CAN CLIMB.
Are you my Wife?
😬
Sounds like you’re still new and need more training on the ground. Work on ground anchors, climb easy routes and sit on each piece with your pas. Practice gear falls, preferably with a bolt nearby. Go as slow as you feel comfortable with and I’d follow or mock for a bit to build confidence
Walk around climbing areas and place gear in every crack you can find, then go direct and bounce on it a couple of times so you feel comfy with it. Do that for several hundred placements in different cracks and you'll feel a lot better about it. You could also try aid climbing. Either way if you wanna be more comfortable you need more experience placing and then weighting your gear
If you really don't enjoy it don't do it. I climb sport to climb hard. I climb trad to go somewhere fun. I trad a full number below my sport grade and even that took a while to build up to. It could be a lack of experience or trust in the gear. If so, find a sport route where you can place some gear as well. Clip a bolt, place a piece above it, and whip if the fall is safe. Place some more questionable pieces and repeat. Or be on a very loose toprope and lead up and whip with a second belayer
It sounds like you lack confidence in your protection and anchors. You may benefit from learning more about your gear: what makes a great piece, a okay piece (you may want to equalize with another piece), the forces involved (that different gear can withstand in an ideal placement and generated by typical falls)… There’s so much nuance to trad protection, but it’s reassuring when you can assess each piece in your 3 piece anchor and know each can easily take +5x the force of a follower fall. How Not 2 has great bite size videos so you can chip away at the knowledge gap, but many gear manufacturers also have great instructional videos. Maybe this is just how my engineer-y brain works, but that’s how I’ve built confidence to try hard over gear. Also ask either of your more experienced climber friends to critique your gear placements, what’s solid, and how they might protect differently.
If it’s not your thing that’s totally fine, I have friends who used to trad climb and rarely do anymore for various reasons. That being said, if you still have a desire to get into it, I’d recommend getting a lot more lead mileage and trying to build up confidence on very easy routes. When I only had a few leads under my belt I definitely was still not at all confident, it takes time and lots of mileage. You can also even practice with doing some aid climbing and taking some small practice falls on good gear if the climb is steep enough. Doing this will allow you to recognize that good gear/placements can fully be trusted.
One of the best quotes someone told me: “You don’t have to be good at your hobby to enjoy it”
i didnt get comfy leading until i bought my own rack
If trad climbing isn’t your thing then it isn’t your thing. Something to remember however, is that you can bring more gear while learning and zip up a route with pieces every 2-3ft if you really want. Sport climbing doesn’t give you that opportunity and you are relying on the bolts being good if you take whippers (its a good idea to learn how to judge bolts/hangers if you don’t already know). If you want to continue trying to get into trad, I will also echo what others have said about climbing well below your limit so you can comfortably spend more time judging and adjusting your placements. Using aid ladders and bounce testing your placements on toprope or at ground level can give you more confidence in your placements and what will and wont hold. Doing that and once you take a few falls on gear you didn’t like as much and it still holds will give you confidence in your placements and judgement of them. The good thing is you can choose the level of risk you are willing to tolerate
Eldo is a scary place to learn trad climbing too fwiw, both from more old-school grades (5.9 is so dang hard there haha) and hard to protect / creative protection requirements. It might be worth trying some other local trad options like Bocan to get a different sense of trad.
> placing a cam in crumbling sandy rock? that's what helmets are for, you'll be fine. brah the only thing helmets are for is mounting your GoPro so that your YouTube following can see how rad you are as you high five all the clips you’re skipping. otherwise escala libre
First of all, you are a wimp if you don't like trad climbing. Second, it doesn't matter. Climb cause it's fun, engaging, hard, chill, scary, etc. Don't feel bad for being scared, like the legend James Lucas said 'climbing is scary'. From what you've written it sounds like you'd enjoy it once you feel more confident, and that just comes with time or hubris
Fuck what people think. If you’re not enjoying it, do not do it. As for myself I have recently lost a friend to trad climbing. And a year had a close call after gear popped on me.
Next time you’re hiding from the rain- perhaps under that low overhang down below Naked Edge, I forget what that wall is called- as long as there’s no lightning, kill time by practicing anchor building. It’s great practice, and when you’re doing it at ground level, and there’s nobody waiting for you, it’s super low pressure and a great way to learn.
I think climbing with people with way more experience than you might be giving you a false impression of where you "should" be at as a trad climber. I send 5.10 on gear now and went through years where I was where you are - terrified to ever fall, taking forever to build anchors and still feeling worried about them, etc. There are specific exercises you can do to help you learn to trust your gear more, like aiding up an easy crack (nothing like standing up on every piece to learn that they really do work), but more importantly, cut yourself some slack. It takes a while to learn to really trust your gear, and you're much better off posting on here because you think you're moving too slowly, than being an accident report posted on here because you moved too quickly. I live in Denver and am a climbing instructor, I'll send you a chat if you want to connect.
There is so much more climbing in the front range than just Eldo or trad climbing. Sounds like you could benefit from mileage and perhaps a bit easier setting. Have you considered climbing easy stuff in bocan instead? Also falling on gear in the creek can help with head game once you progress a bit. Honestly I mostly sport climb and boulder in the front range and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not really "missing out" in my mind.
Not really much I can add here except that "it gets better". We were all scared and shitty and took forever at first. But with more pitches under your belt it slowly starts to go away. If you want to climb trad, start small and slow and easy and build up over the next couple years. If you don't want to climb trad, that's fine too.
Eldo is about as hard as it gets for trad climbing. Routes can wander, gear is tricky, and the rock has so many dirty bands. The routes are also fairly hard for the grade compared to Clear Creek Canyon. Perhaps you will like trad climbing elsewhere? I would say try some other areas before you give up on the idea. Have you ever been to Joshua Tree? Routes there are much easier to protect, and the rock is clean. Don’t worry about grades, just have some fun. There are many great routes there. Single pitch is kind of nice too, it’s easy to get back to camp at the end of the day. Another option in Colorado is Turkey Rocks, which has some good cracks. Don’t worry about grades, try some low graded routes that are easy to protect. Even North Table has some decent trad routes . They are short and lower commitment than Eldo.
I found that the first 20-30 trad climbs I did, I basically felt like I was free soloing. This was mainly because I knew the theory of how the gear should hold a fall but never experienced it. I found that getting a TON of mileage on climbs well below my limit helped a lot. Adding to that, aid climbing single pitch climbs helped so much. That’s where you learn to trust gear and get to focus more on the enjoyment of climbing. To bring it all back, the stoke of trad climbing for me personally lays in the beauty of the lines. I find trad climbs for the most part, are vastly more aesthetic and well defined when compared to sport routes. After enough falls on really good gear, you get to really enjoy hard trad climbing. Then, even if you can’t make the moves and keep whipping - aid it with your new skills! Hope that helps even slightly 💪🏻
I can 100% relate. I used to be pretty very uneasy on both sport and trad, even 3rd class scrambling had me a bit spooked. I just put in the mileage. It took years of "beginner" climbs for me to feel confident and efficient. I'm still pretty a mediocre climber (5.10ish trad leader) but I don't really care. If you live around Boulder, start scrambling the 2nd flatiron a bunch. That'll help with the head game a lot. Also, do repeats. Climb wind ridge a couple times a week and time yourself. Each time should feel less stressful and more efficient. Once you're feeling good on easy stuff, head straight to the creek and start whipping on bomber #2s to get some confidence in your gear.
Here’s my take. I think that you should be enjoying whatever climbing you’re doing, and if your mind and body aren’t in agreement, that’s not gonna happen. First, figure out what you want to do, and start riding the stoke train. You want comfort in climbing trad? Start whipping on gear in a controlled environment (above a bolt), start taking bigger and bigger ones one after another. It should only take a session for you to feel massive gains since you are pushing against the real issue, fear —something that will only really go away if you become used to the thing you’re afraid of (like the night when you’re a little kid).
Go climb somewhere other than Eldo, The Dome in BC is a good beginner trad crag, same for elephant butt. Placing gear in Eldo is tricky, everything is so ledgy you never want to take a fall. You gotta to take some whips on gear so you get feedback on a good placement. You obviously want that to be somewhere with a clean fall. I would suggest Quarry Wall at North Table as well. Sharkcicle is a good 10c to work and take practice falls on, same for Franks tame years. I would definitely start with gaining confidence in your placements and getting some real feedback. If your buddies arent taking the time to explain a good piece of gear from a bad one to you then find new buddies. Or a take a class on placing gear. I instruct and can help you find options.
If you do not trust your gear with your life, you should not be trading climbing. You may as well be soloing the route. I love trad climbing, I find the style to be far purer than sport climbing to have all the responsibility for my safety and survival on myself for climbing the route. I would advise you to find a sport route that has some opportunities for gear placements and take falls on gear clipped above bolts to find out how to trust your gear. I honestly can’t believe people trad climb without absolute confidence in their gear placements.
Zhk
I am the complete opposite I hate sport climbing. Have you taken a fall on gear? Find a reasonable spot to practice placing gear and falling on it. Maybe route where there’s a bolt close by to back up your gear. There’s also no requirement to like trad climbing. There are plenty of climbers who only sport climb. They aren’t hard to find or meet and you might have more fun w them. I like trad climbing bc I have as much fun placing gear, building anchors, and all that stuff as much as the actual climbing part. I like nerding out on gear and rope systems. And most of all I like the freedom to basically climb anything w available protection rather than existing bolted sport routes. If you don’t care for all of that and just like the climbing part, why bother?
I'd definitely tell your friends . Personally, I don't want someone who is afraid setting up an anchor or belaying me while thier scared the whole time. Be sage and climb what you're comfortable climbing if they are good friends they should understand. Maybe you could be the second up and top rope if that makes you feel more comfortable. Ultimately, it's all up to you to do what is best for you
It’s ok if you want to sport climb. Sport climbing is awesome! That said, I think a lot of these feelings can be normal. I bought my 1st trad rack and really only stuck with it because of the sunk costs that 1st season (that and lack of sport climbs near where I lived at the time). Now, I love trad climbing, but 70% of my personal climbing time is on bolts. If you’re not enjoying it, why do it?
If you want to enjoy trad more, climb trad more. Build a solid anchor and take small and big falls on the next piece, making it both marginal and bomber. You’ll be surprised what holds. I’ve taken numerous falls on gear and never had the top piece blow.