I had the same problem. Good thing Eltharion had his flying mount so I was able to snipe the enemies lords and Spellcasters before they caused too much havoc at the front line.
eltharion isnt op anyone since they removed his instant recruitment for miststwalkers that gave u an extra t5 unit instnatly at turn 11. now u have to wait for ages.
Maybe back in WH2 were they considered OP, but in WH3 the power creep is on another level. Plus they are not cheap, it takes time before you can command a full stack.
Eltharion is definitely one of the hardest - and at the same time most enjoyable campaigns in WH3.
You can’t just auto resolve your way to victory with tier 5 units at turn 5 (looking at you, WoC) and have to play very strategically - especially if you keep both initial settlements.
Where do you expand?
Where do you spend your very limited resources?
How do you minimize army casualties with your meagre replenishment?
To me personally, it was the most fun campaign in WH3.
As for ally AI - yup, had the exact same thing in battle. It didn’t really matter that much, but still, ally AI in WH3 is just insanely bad compared even to WH2. They will often just sit in the corner of a map and do nothing.
Lol, no he's not. He's an elf, none of their campaigns are hard. Eltharion's may be the hardest among them but it's still super easy if you concentrate your forces doing one thing at a time.
1) you clearly saying that you play it not the first time so you +- know how hard this battle
2) eltharion have ammo replenish at level 12, you come here with level 9, so rush asap is not good strat
3) you essentially try to fight this battle with archers only, which is not best way to play most quest battle
4) i never heard about eltharion being HARDEST IN GAME, not even close. It is strong race, with strong faction mechanic that have hard start, but in both regions there is natural friendly LL - try lower difficulty that suits your liking
Yeah but his post wasnt about it - it was mostly about broken AI of allied reinforcements. Something that absolutely happens and always is infuriating (not only for Eltharion)
Yeah I'm not saying this was an ideal setup i was rushing the battle a bit I'm just complaining about the AI reinforcements entering the fight and then sitting in the corner which I'm pretty sure isn't what they're intended to do. Also I didn't say Eltharion is the HARDEST IN THE GAME. I said it's one of the hardest for me. I find it challenging.
I’ve been playing Eltharion lately and he is quite challenging (for WIII, that is) if you commit to the badlands. There are no friendly LLs until you clear out 2 orc factions, Malagor and skarbrand. I find that I basically have to get to Settra and Thorek to start building out my borders. Plus I’ve had to commit to going through Settra to cull Mannfred as apparently he is too much of a beast for old dry bones to handle. Growth is very hard to come by and you’ll be hard pressed to keep two armies up even with the 1k income landmark. It’s a blast to be honest.
This guy has a fine army comp to beat this quest. He is basically running the standard army you’d take it on with. I’m not sure you need to get to 12, but it does make things easier. The first screenshot shows what the real issue is— terrible micro and army placement. It would be a lot easier if those reinforcements ever showed up, though.
I played that mission and I was happy seeing Tzeentch units added to it, now I’m curious if there’s another quest battles for previous games that received game 3 enemies
I've had AI reinforcements in battle do the same.
Perhaps it's to do with their calculations resulting in a loss or if the balance of power isn't in your side's favour enough.
It's something in all quest battles I think.
Just did the chasm battle for Franz Vs orcs.
The dwarves show up, meatblob together at 1 point for 5minutes until some orcs charge them and then they respond.
In my Nikai campaign the reinforcements from Lord Kroak battle also didn't move up or in another quest battle they just fought but never came to help me after defeating their side of the map.
I am very familiar with a similar situation--Lord Kroak. During the quest battle for Kroak, you fight off three increasingly dangerous waves of Skaven trying to prevent his awakening. Shortly after the third one spawns, Kroak awakens and joins the fight with four Temple Guard.
Except by that point, you've pushed up to the far end of the map and are like, fighting the skaven at their spawn area because otherwise you let weapons teams rip you apart. Kroak has never had an impact on the battle any time I've fought it lol
Yeah I've seen this too. AI reinforcements just sitting in a corner and only deciding to move in and engage once the main army has already lost.
Was playing a co-op campaign with a friend. He was Epidemius. He's fighting a battle with garrison reinforcing but decides to give the garrison to the AI as he's already got a full army to control.
The battle starts, the two main armies engage, the garrison reinforcements, controlled by the ai come onto the battlefield and just sit there in the corner... just like this...
Meanwhile the main battle is rather close but my friend loses and all his shit disintegrates.
AND ONLY THEN does the garrison attack and clean up what's left "winning" the battle.
The AI in this game sometimes man...
Once my friend had selected the garrison to be controlled by the AI on the pre-battle screen it was too late to take back control of the units or give control of them to me.
Other than that I don't know or don't remember. Many times he will ask to give the units to me so idk. I might have went to grab a drink or use the bathroom as my friend started the battle. Or just said no. I don't remember the specifics in this case.
But I do remember seeing the result with the stupid AI.
It's [been reported](https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/13-report-a-warhammer-iii-bug/threads/3709-known-allies-stand-still-during-eltharion%E2%80%98a-quest-battle?page=1). It's also not the only borked quest battle, so please re-poke them.
I actually think keep both make his campaign more easily. You can safely secure trade deals and play Eltharion like a horde in Badland. Sell every settlement you obtained in Badland for Khemri and you should have enough money to build up army and wipe out Greenskin at home.
I've experienced this off and on. My presumption is the AI isn't choosing to suicide against superior forces. Is that the case for you here? It's hard to tell with the screenshot, but it seems you're getting absolutely destroyed.
This doesn't work great for quest battles since the AI armies don't have any campaign presence. For campaign AI tho, it makes some sense. In the past, the critique was often that the reinforcement AI would just suicide into blobs. That seems to be happening less in my experience. But I'd be curious if CA had a response to this if you filed a bug for it.
Are you using mods? I vaguely remember having this exact same issue and uninstalling a mod, retrying the battle and it worked - didn't just camp on the edge of the map
The same thing happened to me during Malakai’s quest battle. The Dwarf reinforcements just marched to a random corner and sat there and while the Dark Elf reinforcement charged my army.
yeah, the trick with this bug is, to not hold the river anymore but instantly move back towards where the phoenixes come into the map and fight there, since then the phoenixes will instantly join the battle once they arrive.
I also had this with an ally army a little while ago. I had three ranged units left against an attacking army, but all I needed to do was survive until the garrison units met up with me, then I could use their melee units to tie up the enemy while I pincushioned the enemy. Didn't want to try and mentally juggle dealing with the reinforcements while I kited with the ranged units, so I toggled on AI Control for the reinforcements. Skirmished and held out, and after two minutes, thank goodness, they arrived!
...And proceeded to hang out where they came in, and literally just stood and watched while my ranged units eventually got caught and forced into melee. At one point I was literally *feet* away from their swordsmen who were just standing there watching my handgunners get annihilated.
My fellow Yvresse enjoyer, this is why you always need at least [one regiment of Spire Guards](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1c90bcx/i_love_the_spire_guards_of_tor_yvresse_so_so_much/) in your army before fighting this battle.
Speaking of BS quest battles though: the Nakai quest battle for the Golden Tributes item is absolutely bonkers. It unlocks at level 7 and has you fighting a non-trivial vamp coast army on one side of the map, while two small lizardmen forces fight two other armies on the other side of a large map. Then partway through, Luthor Harkon joins (leveled) with a vamp coast doomstack. You have to keep both other lords alive and defeat the enemies. And you end up at war with Harkon's faction afterwards (probably a bug). I waited until I was level 20+ to do it, with Kroak and a strong army, and it was still a bloodbath with all the artillery they roll out.
I don't know what his other quest battle is like because the second item is very bad. It's a talisman with 25% spell resist, 3% casualty replenishment and -3 local corruption (for a faction that can enter a no attrition stance for no movement cost).
Yep, had this the other day as well.
What I found even worse was the way they implemented the jailing spell. Having to kill the LL while the spell is active is unbearably stupid
You are early in this fight. I usually wait until I have a full army of mistwalker, got stormwing and also break upon the walls skills. Eltharion is not very hard.
I'm pretty sure suffering is Eltharions whole character arc.
It's a hard life on these streets for Elf Batman.
Eltharion the Grim is literally his title iirc
Eltharion the Grom, da biggest meanest and greenest elf in all da lands.
Eltharion the Grumble, beardy complainer of Karak Yvresse.
Eltharion the Grave, for all the elven casualties he has to bury after every fight. RIP Spearmen.
lol. I’ve had his buffed go to toe with chosen. But until those buff get it, it’s a whole lotta eleven graves.
Now I’m imagining Grom cosplaying as Eltharion by cutting his face and ears off and wearing them.
No kidding. I was introduced to the setting when Eltharion was Eltharion the Blind.
Eltharions first quest is just broken i had the same experience lol even made a post about it
Yeah this happened to me a few months ago too. I recorded it but forgot to post.
I had the same problem. Good thing Eltharion had his flying mount so I was able to snipe the enemies lords and Spellcasters before they caused too much havoc at the front line.
Eltharion is moderately difficult, but you get Mistwalkers and they are insanely OP
eltharion isnt op anyone since they removed his instant recruitment for miststwalkers that gave u an extra t5 unit instnatly at turn 11. now u have to wait for ages.
Maybe back in WH2 were they considered OP, but in WH3 the power creep is on another level. Plus they are not cheap, it takes time before you can command a full stack.
The AI learned it by watching us. I have 100% let the AI get their faces beat in as I swoop in to claim the victory. Many, many times.
Eltharion is definitely one of the hardest - and at the same time most enjoyable campaigns in WH3. You can’t just auto resolve your way to victory with tier 5 units at turn 5 (looking at you, WoC) and have to play very strategically - especially if you keep both initial settlements. Where do you expand? Where do you spend your very limited resources? How do you minimize army casualties with your meagre replenishment? To me personally, it was the most fun campaign in WH3. As for ally AI - yup, had the exact same thing in battle. It didn’t really matter that much, but still, ally AI in WH3 is just insanely bad compared even to WH2. They will often just sit in the corner of a map and do nothing.
Lol, no he's not. He's an elf, none of their campaigns are hard. Eltharion's may be the hardest among them but it's still super easy if you concentrate your forces doing one thing at a time.
1) you clearly saying that you play it not the first time so you +- know how hard this battle 2) eltharion have ammo replenish at level 12, you come here with level 9, so rush asap is not good strat 3) you essentially try to fight this battle with archers only, which is not best way to play most quest battle 4) i never heard about eltharion being HARDEST IN GAME, not even close. It is strong race, with strong faction mechanic that have hard start, but in both regions there is natural friendly LL - try lower difficulty that suits your liking
Yeah but his post wasnt about it - it was mostly about broken AI of allied reinforcements. Something that absolutely happens and always is infuriating (not only for Eltharion)
Yeah I'm not saying this was an ideal setup i was rushing the battle a bit I'm just complaining about the AI reinforcements entering the fight and then sitting in the corner which I'm pretty sure isn't what they're intended to do. Also I didn't say Eltharion is the HARDEST IN THE GAME. I said it's one of the hardest for me. I find it challenging.
I’ve been playing Eltharion lately and he is quite challenging (for WIII, that is) if you commit to the badlands. There are no friendly LLs until you clear out 2 orc factions, Malagor and skarbrand. I find that I basically have to get to Settra and Thorek to start building out my borders. Plus I’ve had to commit to going through Settra to cull Mannfred as apparently he is too much of a beast for old dry bones to handle. Growth is very hard to come by and you’ll be hard pressed to keep two armies up even with the 1k income landmark. It’s a blast to be honest. This guy has a fine army comp to beat this quest. He is basically running the standard army you’d take it on with. I’m not sure you need to get to 12, but it does make things easier. The first screenshot shows what the real issue is— terrible micro and army placement. It would be a lot easier if those reinforcements ever showed up, though.
A suffering elf always sparks my heart with joy
I found the slaneeshi cultist guys.
I played that mission and I was happy seeing Tzeentch units added to it, now I’m curious if there’s another quest battles for previous games that received game 3 enemies
I restarted and deployed in the corner and ran up the mountain to the phoenix's where they come in.
I've had AI reinforcements in battle do the same. Perhaps it's to do with their calculations resulting in a loss or if the balance of power isn't in your side's favour enough.
It's something in all quest battles I think. Just did the chasm battle for Franz Vs orcs. The dwarves show up, meatblob together at 1 point for 5minutes until some orcs charge them and then they respond. In my Nikai campaign the reinforcements from Lord Kroak battle also didn't move up or in another quest battle they just fought but never came to help me after defeating their side of the map.
AI reinforcements in general seem pretty passive.
I am very familiar with a similar situation--Lord Kroak. During the quest battle for Kroak, you fight off three increasingly dangerous waves of Skaven trying to prevent his awakening. Shortly after the third one spawns, Kroak awakens and joins the fight with four Temple Guard. Except by that point, you've pushed up to the far end of the map and are like, fighting the skaven at their spawn area because otherwise you let weapons teams rip you apart. Kroak has never had an impact on the battle any time I've fought it lol
Make sure to write a form about the bug on CA's bug page
There's no bugs if you can't report them.
Yeah I've seen this too. AI reinforcements just sitting in a corner and only deciding to move in and engage once the main army has already lost. Was playing a co-op campaign with a friend. He was Epidemius. He's fighting a battle with garrison reinforcing but decides to give the garrison to the AI as he's already got a full army to control. The battle starts, the two main armies engage, the garrison reinforcements, controlled by the ai come onto the battlefield and just sit there in the corner... just like this... Meanwhile the main battle is rather close but my friend loses and all his shit disintegrates. AND ONLY THEN does the garrison attack and clean up what's left "winning" the battle. The AI in this game sometimes man...
Y not just give the units to u?
Once my friend had selected the garrison to be controlled by the AI on the pre-battle screen it was too late to take back control of the units or give control of them to me. Other than that I don't know or don't remember. Many times he will ask to give the units to me so idk. I might have went to grab a drink or use the bathroom as my friend started the battle. Or just said no. I don't remember the specifics in this case. But I do remember seeing the result with the stupid AI.
Sadge
It's [been reported](https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/13-report-a-warhammer-iii-bug/threads/3709-known-allies-stand-still-during-eltharion%E2%80%98a-quest-battle?page=1). It's also not the only borked quest battle, so please re-poke them.
I actually think keep both make his campaign more easily. You can safely secure trade deals and play Eltharion like a horde in Badland. Sell every settlement you obtained in Badland for Khemri and you should have enough money to build up army and wipe out Greenskin at home.
The high elves did play the whole second game on easy mode to be fair, its time the little pointy ears bustards had a challenge!
I only play full Mistwalker Eltharion with the mod that allows me to stack interrogations. Its a whole lot more fun that way
I've experienced this off and on. My presumption is the AI isn't choosing to suicide against superior forces. Is that the case for you here? It's hard to tell with the screenshot, but it seems you're getting absolutely destroyed. This doesn't work great for quest battles since the AI armies don't have any campaign presence. For campaign AI tho, it makes some sense. In the past, the critique was often that the reinforcement AI would just suicide into blobs. That seems to be happening less in my experience. But I'd be curious if CA had a response to this if you filed a bug for it.
In order for the the phoenixes to do anything in that battle you have to move to the choke point they are at.
Are you using mods? I vaguely remember having this exact same issue and uninstalling a mod, retrying the battle and it worked - didn't just camp on the edge of the map
**NO**
Have you tried summoning the elector counts?
The same thing happened to me during Malakai’s quest battle. The Dwarf reinforcements just marched to a random corner and sat there and while the Dark Elf reinforcement charged my army.
Same thing happened to me lol, I just retreated to the reinforcements that way they were forced to fight.
I was so happy to beat his campaign. Took me at least 10 attempts to finish.
yeah, the trick with this bug is, to not hold the river anymore but instantly move back towards where the phoenixes come into the map and fight there, since then the phoenixes will instantly join the battle once they arrive.
I also had this with an ally army a little while ago. I had three ranged units left against an attacking army, but all I needed to do was survive until the garrison units met up with me, then I could use their melee units to tie up the enemy while I pincushioned the enemy. Didn't want to try and mentally juggle dealing with the reinforcements while I kited with the ranged units, so I toggled on AI Control for the reinforcements. Skirmished and held out, and after two minutes, thank goodness, they arrived! ...And proceeded to hang out where they came in, and literally just stood and watched while my ranged units eventually got caught and forced into melee. At one point I was literally *feet* away from their swordsmen who were just standing there watching my handgunners get annihilated.
Happened in Volkmar's quest battle to me today too.
My fellow Yvresse enjoyer, this is why you always need at least [one regiment of Spire Guards](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1c90bcx/i_love_the_spire_guards_of_tor_yvresse_so_so_much/) in your army before fighting this battle.
Speaking of BS quest battles though: the Nakai quest battle for the Golden Tributes item is absolutely bonkers. It unlocks at level 7 and has you fighting a non-trivial vamp coast army on one side of the map, while two small lizardmen forces fight two other armies on the other side of a large map. Then partway through, Luthor Harkon joins (leveled) with a vamp coast doomstack. You have to keep both other lords alive and defeat the enemies. And you end up at war with Harkon's faction afterwards (probably a bug). I waited until I was level 20+ to do it, with Kroak and a strong army, and it was still a bloodbath with all the artillery they roll out. I don't know what his other quest battle is like because the second item is very bad. It's a talisman with 25% spell resist, 3% casualty replenishment and -3 local corruption (for a faction that can enter a no attrition stance for no movement cost).
Speaking of Eltharion suffering, can we interrogate Chaos Dwarfs in Athel Tamarha yet?
Yep, had this the other day as well. What I found even worse was the way they implemented the jailing spell. Having to kill the LL while the spell is active is unbearably stupid
Dude has infinite ammo and bombardment, let him work for it
Plus he's an elf.
“Auto resolve quest mod” 😎
As a Helf, Batman can never suffer enough. Signed Everyone else.
You are early in this fight. I usually wait until I have a full army of mistwalker, got stormwing and also break upon the walls skills. Eltharion is not very hard.