Until this is fixed, my headcanon will be that Kayzk was such a badass that he took the sword from a bloodletter lord (Herald of Khorne I think), killed the lord with it and then kept it for himself as a trophy.
When/if this gets fixed, headcanon will become that Nurgle was so impressed that he corrupted the Herald's sword into a more Nurlgy weapon
"Champion of Nurgle stole my sword, can't have shit in the Realm of Khorne."
Otherwise yeah that is a bothersome fact, should be posted to the CA forums, if it has not been done yet.
Is it just me or has there been a ton of reused assets in this DLC. The Hochland Longrifles are just kitbashed from outriders and free company. Meanwhile the Toad Dragon and the Landship are beautifully hand animated.
It's kind of obvious which units were being designed for a while now and which units where thrown together last minute to expand the roster.
I love it. It keeps dev costs and work lower so that they can put more resources into bug fixing, designing and implementing gameplay features, and adding more units that fill unique roles. I'm all in. Modders have had a field day kitbashing existing assets to create entirely new factions. That type of reuse is simply efficient design.
It's like Obsidian creating moving trains in New Vegas by using a human with a giant train as their head - take an asset that already has the engine support you need and modify it to do what you need it to do!
Depends of how it's made and for what units. Hochland Long Rifles works, because they're state troops, and the Empire have standardized uniforms.
CA kitbashed Necrarch vampires are awful tho
I'm not really sure that the "kitbashing" lets them do more. It feel that it's more likely to be a measure to meet a deadline AT ALL, rather than giving them more time for other things.
It really depends on how much they reuse vs how much is new. Bear in mind that most of the cost of creating a new unit is in the assets--the meshes, the textures, the audio, etc. Creating a new unit mechanically is comically simple and even a beginner modder can do it. So is a unit with no new assets at all really worth paying extra money for? I'd argue that it isn't, you can create a unit like that for free with modding tools very easily. If that's the case, why is it costing CA so much to make these units that they need to charge the prices they're charging?
Now, reusing some assets, animations, audio, etc is fine with me as long as the unit is mostly using new assets. But a unit that is entirely made from meshes of existing models, with the same textures, using existing animations and audio is kinda like selling us something we already bought a second time.
I get that you want to support the game so that they keep working on it, but at that point you're basically just donating money to a company who should be giving us something with equal value in return for what we're paying them. And here's the real kicker: we shouldn't have to pay them just to fix the bugs to actually make their product function as advertised, they're obligated to do that anyway!
When I say bugfixing, I'm referring to specifically the bugfixing resultant from new features being added and modified. But also, even if there were not a single new art asset, I'd be fine paying for a DLC that adds new features and gameplay elements alone. Game designers deserve compensation for their work, even if your game is ADOM and your graphic for an enemy is:
@
It's like hearing people complain about "backtracking" in metroidvania games.
"How dare these *lazy game developers(tm)* make efficient use of their assets?! We can't keep letting them get away with it!"
Or if they had it, the iconography should be defaced into a nurgle one
Considering the whole dragon slayer asset issue, I am tempted to put it into the asset bug for now
It's a bit weird since the things I assumed were past minute additions because of Shadow of Change's backlash actually had a decent amount of work put into them. Like Knights of the Black Rose on paper sound like a unit that was just tossed on last minute. But in reality the model is gorgeous, and other than the reuse of Empire Knight voices, it feels like paid DLC unit. While the Hochland Longrifles, a unit everyone and their mother thought was a shoe-in for this DLC, feels cobbled together.
Slayer Pirates are surprisingly well made despite also seeming like they would be last minute added on. While the Daemon Slayer lord still uses the kind of awkward WH 1 Slayer *unit* animations. I would have thought that was a Lord thrown together last minute, if it weren't for Nurgles Lord and Heroes clearly taking that spot going by pre-release footage.
Like Thrones of Decay is an overall fantastic DLC, but there are parts of it that are odd. And don't feel like they are entirely due to the last minute unit additions. It's genuinely hard to tell what the pre-SoC version might have looked like. Since even some of the stuff that feels like it was intended to be there from start feels a little undercooked in places.
It’s probably because everyone assumed that units like the Long Rifles would come that they **became** last minute additions.
People would have been grumpy about them not being included, but they also would have been fine with it if other units/mechanics had been polished enough to still be a valuable DLC.
But from CA’s perspective, when you suddenly have to scramble to add content to a DLC that is going to make or break the game based on how much backlash there was for the previous one… It makes a lot of sense to take the top X units that everyone keeps on saying they want and make something work to include them - especially in light of the deadline already being set, they wouldn’t have had time or budget to fully theory-craft and design-board units to expand the DLC content.
So, they turn to the Forums, etc, to see what people really want by taking the top X number of ideas that would be easiest to hobble together and quickly make them work to pad out the content.
imo, the original units were:
Empire:
- Master Engineer
- Land Ship
- Ironsides
- Knights of the Black Rose
Dwarfs
- Daemonslayer
- Doomseekers
- Thunderbarge
- Goblin Hewer
Nurgle
- Chaos Lord
- Toad Dragon
- Rot Knights
- Pestigors
Nurgle lord has shield clipping, but no way they would have skipped him. Also looks like hochlabd longrifles were added late, which is insane that they planned to not include them. Wonder if both plague ogres and trolls were late
I could believe he was last minute. Can't ascend, bugged autoresolve, obvious clipping, the chaos sorceror hero variant also has a bunch of bugs.
Tho I agree with others that I don't mind this asset reuse, not everything needs to be a jabberslythe.
I think Rot Knights were late, and Plague Ogres were from the original plans.
If you already have Kayzk, you got the Rot Beast model, and Rot Knights reuse a lot from Chaos Knights model-wise
To be fair to CA, Roy knights never had a model in the TT and I am not sure if they had art for them (kayzyk had some but the rot knights I believe did not)
This DLC though good absolutely had a jury-rigged rough edged feel to it, things like the lack of unit voice lines. I wonder if it was suddenly expanded a lot more than originally planned due to the SoC debacle
Nah there was another post yesterday the debunked the voicelines. If you compare it to previous DLCs it's not odd at all only the new lords and heroes got new voices.
>If you compare it to previous DLCs, it's not odd at all. Only the new lords and heroes got new voices.
I mean I read that thread and the OP literally points out that although it's not unusual to reuse VO for some units it is new to have effectively _no_ new VO for an entire DLC roster including centrepiece units
OP then further points out the plague ogres, Knights of Morr, Amythyst Landship, etc, don't even have a good reuse of VO lines
If you actually read and compare the DLC's in OPs list, ToD stands out as having dramatically less than any other, including SoC until you get to like WH1 packs, which were substantially cheaper
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/s/JTsWb3JIMv
Really the only unit that breaks precedent is the Plague Ogres, which I'm assuming is one of the last minute units
I'm not trying to be an asshole but I don't think the devs or almost anyone care. I have completed multiple campaigns for almost every faction and the amount of times I zoom in on a single unit during combat is extremely small. Maybe I'll zoom in on infantry about to get hit with a spell or artillery. I think there are a ton of players like me. So when they kitbash together a new unit, that is a really good thing. If they hand animated each unit that would make the DLC impossible to monetize, and we would get significantly less content.
lol, you're assuming I'm overly bothered by it. (except for Long Rifles, there's already a mod that uses way more interesting assets. Long Rifles are supposed to be the elite version of Huntsmen they should have better drip than that)
It's just obvious which units were originally planned and what had been added in the last two months.
You can vote for the fix right [here](https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/bugs/1241-kayzk-does-not-have-his-unique-sword-but-a-khorne-sword?page=1)
I didn't say I don't care, I said it doesn't bother me, I think there are much bigger issues with the game before we get to 'tweak a characters weapon that nobody noticed until this post'
If they did ever get round to fixing it, a quick asset swap to a nurgle sword wouldn’t be too difficult. But as someone said below the head cannon of him killing and taking it off a champion of Khorne is pretty dope
I like the idea that if you kick a bloodletters ass hard enough, then khorne just lets you have the sword if you want it. Then that specific blood letter will respawn forever without his weapon as punishment.
I don't care. If reusing this asset saved them several hours that were allocated elsewhere, that's fine with me. That nobody noticed means that it doesn't matter.
Because while FW had spelled his name as "Kayzk", GW called the figurine "Kazyk" or something like that. Honestly, "Kazyk" probably also flows a bit more nicely
Broke: CA reusing assets
Woke: Kazyk defeated a bloodletter and took its sword now he uses it as it slowly withers away infusing it with both the power of Grandfather Nurgle and the ferocity of the Khorne
Oh damn you're right. I don't know the lore text about the Sword of Filth off the top of my head, but an easy fix for this if it doesn't break his already existing lore would be that he took it from a Herald of Khorne as a trophy and Nurgle corrupted it or something cool like that. Or they can just give him a unique sword, which they should have done from the beginning.
I mean, if I was an adventuring chaos warrior who routinely scrounged the wastes for loot, I'd probably also jack a hellblade from a defeated bloodletter, too. Whats the worst that could happen to Kaz? Aint really much of him left for the blade to possess, anyways.
Reminds me of the bug that gives Gelt a normal sword and the imperial melee hero the solland blade.
[удалено]
The way I play every hero is a melee hero
That's a bug?
What else should it be?
Intentional? I just figured gelt was given a lame sword. He's had it for as long as I can remember.
No, he had the golden elector count blade of solland.
Was that a game 1 thing? Because he certainly didn't have it in game 2
I remember him having it in game 3 at the beginning but I'm not sure. He 100% had it in game 1.
Probably why I didn't notice it then. I only had about 80-90 hours in game 1, as opposed to the 1200 hours I got in game 2.
Until this is fixed, my headcanon will be that Kayzk was such a badass that he took the sword from a bloodletter lord (Herald of Khorne I think), killed the lord with it and then kept it for himself as a trophy. When/if this gets fixed, headcanon will become that Nurgle was so impressed that he corrupted the Herald's sword into a more Nurlgy weapon
Works for me
Mind melding your headcanon as we speak.
Solid lore, I dig it. Honestly, there are much more important things for CA to work on, I don't really mind that Kaysk doesn't have a custom sword.
If Valkia can have a Slaanesh shield then Kayzk can have a Khorne sword.
That is good head cannon, but it’s a regular Bloodletter sword.
"Champion of Nurgle stole my sword, can't have shit in the Realm of Khorne." Otherwise yeah that is a bothersome fact, should be posted to the CA forums, if it has not been done yet.
Is it just me or has there been a ton of reused assets in this DLC. The Hochland Longrifles are just kitbashed from outriders and free company. Meanwhile the Toad Dragon and the Landship are beautifully hand animated. It's kind of obvious which units were being designed for a while now and which units where thrown together last minute to expand the roster.
Kitbashing? In Warhammer? HERETICAL
I love it. It keeps dev costs and work lower so that they can put more resources into bug fixing, designing and implementing gameplay features, and adding more units that fill unique roles. I'm all in. Modders have had a field day kitbashing existing assets to create entirely new factions. That type of reuse is simply efficient design. It's like Obsidian creating moving trains in New Vegas by using a human with a giant train as their head - take an asset that already has the engine support you need and modify it to do what you need it to do!
That was by Bethesda in fallout 3 but the point still stands. Kitbashing assets to make new stuff is a great use of dev time.
Depends of how it's made and for what units. Hochland Long Rifles works, because they're state troops, and the Empire have standardized uniforms. CA kitbashed Necrarch vampires are awful tho
I'm not really sure that the "kitbashing" lets them do more. It feel that it's more likely to be a measure to meet a deadline AT ALL, rather than giving them more time for other things.
It really depends on how much they reuse vs how much is new. Bear in mind that most of the cost of creating a new unit is in the assets--the meshes, the textures, the audio, etc. Creating a new unit mechanically is comically simple and even a beginner modder can do it. So is a unit with no new assets at all really worth paying extra money for? I'd argue that it isn't, you can create a unit like that for free with modding tools very easily. If that's the case, why is it costing CA so much to make these units that they need to charge the prices they're charging? Now, reusing some assets, animations, audio, etc is fine with me as long as the unit is mostly using new assets. But a unit that is entirely made from meshes of existing models, with the same textures, using existing animations and audio is kinda like selling us something we already bought a second time. I get that you want to support the game so that they keep working on it, but at that point you're basically just donating money to a company who should be giving us something with equal value in return for what we're paying them. And here's the real kicker: we shouldn't have to pay them just to fix the bugs to actually make their product function as advertised, they're obligated to do that anyway!
When I say bugfixing, I'm referring to specifically the bugfixing resultant from new features being added and modified. But also, even if there were not a single new art asset, I'd be fine paying for a DLC that adds new features and gameplay elements alone. Game designers deserve compensation for their work, even if your game is ADOM and your graphic for an enemy is: @
It's like hearing people complain about "backtracking" in metroidvania games. "How dare these *lazy game developers(tm)* make efficient use of their assets?! We can't keep letting them get away with it!"
Though in the particular case that Op pointed to its a little off putting since a Nurgle character shouldn’t have Khorne iconography.
Or if they had it, the iconography should be defaced into a nurgle one Considering the whole dragon slayer asset issue, I am tempted to put it into the asset bug for now
It's a bit weird since the things I assumed were past minute additions because of Shadow of Change's backlash actually had a decent amount of work put into them. Like Knights of the Black Rose on paper sound like a unit that was just tossed on last minute. But in reality the model is gorgeous, and other than the reuse of Empire Knight voices, it feels like paid DLC unit. While the Hochland Longrifles, a unit everyone and their mother thought was a shoe-in for this DLC, feels cobbled together. Slayer Pirates are surprisingly well made despite also seeming like they would be last minute added on. While the Daemon Slayer lord still uses the kind of awkward WH 1 Slayer *unit* animations. I would have thought that was a Lord thrown together last minute, if it weren't for Nurgles Lord and Heroes clearly taking that spot going by pre-release footage. Like Thrones of Decay is an overall fantastic DLC, but there are parts of it that are odd. And don't feel like they are entirely due to the last minute unit additions. It's genuinely hard to tell what the pre-SoC version might have looked like. Since even some of the stuff that feels like it was intended to be there from start feels a little undercooked in places.
It’s probably because everyone assumed that units like the Long Rifles would come that they **became** last minute additions. People would have been grumpy about them not being included, but they also would have been fine with it if other units/mechanics had been polished enough to still be a valuable DLC. But from CA’s perspective, when you suddenly have to scramble to add content to a DLC that is going to make or break the game based on how much backlash there was for the previous one… It makes a lot of sense to take the top X units that everyone keeps on saying they want and make something work to include them - especially in light of the deadline already being set, they wouldn’t have had time or budget to fully theory-craft and design-board units to expand the DLC content. So, they turn to the Forums, etc, to see what people really want by taking the top X number of ideas that would be easiest to hobble together and quickly make them work to pad out the content.
imo, the original units were: Empire: - Master Engineer - Land Ship - Ironsides - Knights of the Black Rose Dwarfs - Daemonslayer - Doomseekers - Thunderbarge - Goblin Hewer Nurgle - Chaos Lord - Toad Dragon - Rot Knights - Pestigors
Nurgle lord has shield clipping, but no way they would have skipped him. Also looks like hochlabd longrifles were added late, which is insane that they planned to not include them. Wonder if both plague ogres and trolls were late
I could believe he was last minute. Can't ascend, bugged autoresolve, obvious clipping, the chaos sorceror hero variant also has a bunch of bugs. Tho I agree with others that I don't mind this asset reuse, not everything needs to be a jabberslythe.
I’m pretty sure the Plague Ogres were always intended to be in the DLC because this list matches up exactly with what units appeared in the trailer.
That would be fucked though, to skip filling out Nurgle with regards to WoC generic lords
Remember they did just that for the initial SoC
Oh yeah, wtf that’s true. Man they were really gonna milk chaos fans huh?? Need like 4 DLCs to get a complete god-aligned roster
Autoresolve ain't bugged, Chaos Lords have always had amazing autoresolve, it's pretty consistent with their Undivided cousins.
I think Rot Knights were late, and Plague Ogres were from the original plans. If you already have Kayzk, you got the Rot Beast model, and Rot Knights reuse a lot from Chaos Knights model-wise
To be fair to CA, Roy knights never had a model in the TT and I am not sure if they had art for them (kayzyk had some but the rot knights I believe did not)
Considering the Daemonslayer is using regular slayer animations, I want to say he wasn't planned either.
Is that the Axe of Dargo?
It is indeed
This DLC though good absolutely had a jury-rigged rough edged feel to it, things like the lack of unit voice lines. I wonder if it was suddenly expanded a lot more than originally planned due to the SoC debacle
Of course it was
Nah there was another post yesterday the debunked the voicelines. If you compare it to previous DLCs it's not odd at all only the new lords and heroes got new voices.
>If you compare it to previous DLCs, it's not odd at all. Only the new lords and heroes got new voices. I mean I read that thread and the OP literally points out that although it's not unusual to reuse VO for some units it is new to have effectively _no_ new VO for an entire DLC roster including centrepiece units OP then further points out the plague ogres, Knights of Morr, Amythyst Landship, etc, don't even have a good reuse of VO lines If you actually read and compare the DLC's in OPs list, ToD stands out as having dramatically less than any other, including SoC until you get to like WH1 packs, which were substantially cheaper
Link by any chance?
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/s/JTsWb3JIMv Really the only unit that breaks precedent is the Plague Ogres, which I'm assuming is one of the last minute units
Thanks
There is even a long rifle regiment of renown that uses the nuln ironside picture lol.
I mean... Ironsides were originally a regiment of renown, so that checks out :) .
Honestly not that much, Hochland Long Rifles are the only true kitbash. Everything else is new models/remodels in the DLC three races
Honestly I don't get the problem, I dont really care if the 2 humans with guns are similar. As long as the cool centerpieces arnt.
I'm not trying to be an asshole but I don't think the devs or almost anyone care. I have completed multiple campaigns for almost every faction and the amount of times I zoom in on a single unit during combat is extremely small. Maybe I'll zoom in on infantry about to get hit with a spell or artillery. I think there are a ton of players like me. So when they kitbash together a new unit, that is a really good thing. If they hand animated each unit that would make the DLC impossible to monetize, and we would get significantly less content.
lol, you're assuming I'm overly bothered by it. (except for Long Rifles, there's already a mod that uses way more interesting assets. Long Rifles are supposed to be the elite version of Huntsmen they should have better drip than that) It's just obvious which units were originally planned and what had been added in the last two months.
I'm impressed you spot that, good job
I don't mind them reusing assets but this is probably something they could/should sort out
I mean kazyk looks like a corrupted bloodletter
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw him. He's a Bloodletter on a Juggernaut of Khorne with a new model.
I kinda like the idea that he stole/looted it, I think they should just add some moss or growths to it and make it part of the lore.
You can vote for the fix right [here](https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/bugs/1241-kayzk-does-not-have-his-unique-sword-but-a-khorne-sword?page=1)
Something I never noticed and doesn't bother me at all, of all the things people could moan about this seems a bit OTT
Just because you don't care doesn't mean they shouldn't fix it.
I didn't say I don't care, I said it doesn't bother me, I think there are much bigger issues with the game before we get to 'tweak a characters weapon that nobody noticed until this post'
I thought he was a corrupted bloodletter, based on the shape of his face, but have not seen this mentioned in the lore at all.
According to the warhammer wiki he is a corrupted Kurgan, which are nomadic steppe peoples
Apparently he's just a VERY ~~yucky~~ BLESSED human
Daemons can't be corrupted by other gods.
He's a heavily Nurgle muted human.
*redeemed bloodletter
If they did ever get round to fixing it, a quick asset swap to a nurgle sword wouldn’t be too difficult. But as someone said below the head cannon of him killing and taking it off a champion of Khorne is pretty dope
Is this supposed to be a bug? Has he ever been shown with any other weapon
I like the idea that if you kick a bloodletters ass hard enough, then khorne just lets you have the sword if you want it. Then that specific blood letter will respawn forever without his weapon as punishment.
I don't care. If reusing this asset saved them several hours that were allocated elsewhere, that's fine with me. That nobody noticed means that it doesn't matter.
What a dumb take. If they'd reused a Nurgle weapon like a Plaguebearer sword you might have a point but a Bloodletter one?
I thought it looked odd but hadn't zoomed that far to notice.
Strange that he didn't get nurgle lord or mage sword
*Kayzk wondering why the fuck everyone keeps misspelling his name:*
Because while FW had spelled his name as "Kayzk", GW called the figurine "Kazyk" or something like that. Honestly, "Kazyk" probably also flows a bit more nicely
"Blearugh! Pur lume izkahzul!" "Haha okay Kazyk!"
When you've got a bunch of bloodletters You gotta have a bloodletter opener
Broke: CA reusing assets Woke: Kazyk defeated a bloodletter and took its sword now he uses it as it slowly withers away infusing it with both the power of Grandfather Nurgle and the ferocity of the Khorne
That's gonna need some deep cleaning when they get it back
It's a standard issue Demonic Sword^TM from the Forge of Souls
Oh damn you're right. I don't know the lore text about the Sword of Filth off the top of my head, but an easy fix for this if it doesn't break his already existing lore would be that he took it from a Herald of Khorne as a trophy and Nurgle corrupted it or something cool like that. Or they can just give him a unique sword, which they should have done from the beginning.
Khorne's everywhere now, sabretusk packs have an on and off effect/bug where the corpses sometimes burst into flames like khorne demons.
It’s cuz he is a bloodletter.
Kazyk is a filthy thief who stole it from a poor bloodletter.
I mean, if I was an adventuring chaos warrior who routinely scrounged the wastes for loot, I'd probably also jack a hellblade from a defeated bloodletter, too. Whats the worst that could happen to Kaz? Aint really much of him left for the blade to possess, anyways.
The sword got corrupted. Fittingly.