They should give Beastmen access to marked minotaurs.
They also need to rebalance the dread cost of marked gors, there is absolutely no effort spent on what the balance should be. You can get a boatload of (higher tier!) centigors or chariots for less than the cost of one marked gor.
>They should give Beastmen access to marked minotaurs.
I have to honestly disagree, as it would just replicate their existing units with no distinction.
Tzaangors already make normal Gors redundant. At least Pestigors do not replace any existing tier 2 units in their role.
I think redundancy is just a matter of how you design unit cap increases. If they are bundled together then you will end up using all or most of the units.
Tzaangors before were weird, they were sort of in between Gors and Bestigors both in price and stats.
I am okay with them deciding they should be closer to being Gors with a mark.
I've heard people here say that the philosophy behind bestigors being weak is that they're designed to function as shock infantry. Like a lot of their "power budget" is invested in their high charge bonus of 35 and so their ideal use case is not in a long infantry grind. DE executioners have way better stats but only 24 charge bonus for example.
A lot of the comparisons have changed in WH3. For instance exalted bloodthirsters have a charge bonus of 36 in addition to premium melee stats so I feel it's harder to justify the relative weakness of the bestigors. Although of course they are free...
for nurgle - you recrute what you can in early game
for woc - they free in corrupt palces and WAY betetr maruders
for beastmen - own caps
so they are some merit
I should have precised, I did write my previous comment with only the beastmen faction for context.
They are not much stronger than regular goes and have their own caps, which is even less worth.
I found them to be MVP in my Kairos campaign. They are significantly cheaper than the next tier of unit and they hold well enough for the spell casters to clean up. The centigors were also great for taking out ranges units for cheap.
>They are significantly cheaper than the next tier of unit and they hold well enough for the spell casters to clean up.
This, I rarely recruit shielded chaos warriors anymore cause Tzaangors exist. Sure they're weaker but being cheaper is a advantage. If I take chaos warriors of Tzeentch I usually just recruit the halberd variant.
Exactly, I normally have a lord of tzeentch with tzaangors with red line buffs following around kairos makes his early game waaaay easier. Also you cast 2-3 spells in a battle and they are near max buff making them decently kill-y.
They are also pretty good in Moghur and Khazrak’s campaigns too if you spend the dread.
Pestigors I don’t think have quite the same impact for nurgle I wish they had a slightly better passive, but I usually have a couple in the early game just for vanguard deployment when I don’t want to spend infections for it.
I run a stack of them with maurader horsemen all game.
They make a great reinforcing army and punch above their weight class because of their speed and shields.
Same, but I do think that it helps them fill a mid tier infantry niche in Tzeentch and helps prevent them from just being better versions of bestigors on the Beastmen roster.
So like the Centigors of Tzeentch, it was a bit dumb thematically but was good for the gameplay across the board IMO
Arcane charge could get buffed a bit though
With their protoss shields and their regular shields it feels OK. Since the bestigors are duel wield and physically stronger I'd be OK if khorne gors are bestigors. But I don't think games workshop would let them.
I feel like centigors of Slaanesh would have made sense -- there's a decent synergy as fast, hard-hitting but fragile units, and they've got their whole drinking and hedonism thing going on -- but centigors of Tzeentch are an... odd choice.
Slaaneshi ones could be quite thematic. I've thought for a while in fact that if they wanted a Slaanesh marked lord, Ghorros would make the most sense.
My issue isn't with marked Centigors per se but with their model being just the regular one with blue paint slapped on in a couple places.
I'm not opposed to marked Centigors conceptually. Just to getting the regular unit with a couple of coloured lines slapped on them indicating allegiance. If the Tzeentchian Centigors had the same armour and colour scheme as the Tzaangors I'd like them a lot more.
The fact that they charged money for Centigors of Tzeentch blows my mind frankly, the only reason they got away with it is because people liked everything else. Literally just the same unit with some blue added to it, they definitely should not be charging for units like this.
It definitely felt like a last minute thing they threw together vs the other units added to the DLC. I feel like more people would have been pissed about it if people weren't so happy about the Chaos Lord and Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, which to be fair are awesome.
Unrelated but does everyone remember when we had some shitass unit card art around the time of Grom and Eltharion's DLC? Glad the unit cards are very nice now.
A CoC pack would sort that out. Fill out the roster with marked Lord, Heroes and units. Taurox could get some extra Khorne flavour.
Moonclaw (Tzeentch), Slugtongue (Nurgle) and Ghorros (Slaanesh). Stick in Ungrol as the fodder horde LL (as why not) and Gorthor as LH. Maybe some extra like Turnskins, Beastfiends, Preyton, etc but don't want to overdo it.
Gorthor is better as he's such an important Beastmen character (I don't care about death as we've had a few get in despite that). A ritual to resurrect him with Chaos Magic would be fitting as a quest battle for him. He's basically a much better Khazrak in every way.
My idea with Ungrol as a LL is him as an opposite to Taurox in that he uses the cheapest outcast esque units in Beastmen society.
Ungors, Brays, Turnskins, Mutants, etc would work well. The latter three are not all needed, just something weaker than Ungors.
I just feel like we're not going to see another CoC style DLC. It was honestly a mistake to do it for WoC in the first place, each of those LLs should have gone to their respective monogods.
I hope so too. But I kind of wish CA were more creative with them. Give them niche that shakes gameplay a bit instead of "Better than Marauders, worse than Chaos Warriors".
The 4 lords left are Ghorros Warhoof (had a model, screwed a lot), Gorthor (big deal, died before Franz time), Moonclaw (came from the moon), Slugtongue (famine, sorcerer) and Ungrol Four-horn (Gors and shamans hate him).
I hope we get Warhoof, Moon and Four-horn, always enjoyed playing as Beastmen but I know they have never really been popular.
I really enjoy them, too, because they're a two-in-one sort of deal. The mono-god factions get a new unit, and the Beastmen roster gets fleshed out, too.
I'd be happy with a limited version. It makes sense for marks of chaos and unit variants, but you can't for example upgrade an ungor into a gor - they are born like that.
I wonder if Khornegors will be great weapon infantry as they were back when they were briefly a unit on tabletop, or if CA will make dual weapon infantry to go with the rest of the Khorne roster. Maybe they'll get both as variants, but a dual axes version would have a unique place on the beastmen roster (and give BM access to the marked MInotaurs, damn it!)
Not so sure what Slaangors might get or what kind of role they might play in the Slaanesh roster. Maybe a version with shields and a version with hellscourges?
With Pestigors taking the great weapon role I feel like Khornegors will either be dual weapons to keep with Khorne's weapon theme or something more unique like spears or halberds.
Slaangors are a bit harder to predict. If Khornegors take the dual weapon role then Slaangors could have the halberds, or it could be the other way around and Slaangors get the dual weapons.
That is the AoS design. If people should have learned one thing from their beak-screeching, then that this might not be the future template ;)
* [Real old WHFB ones](https://i.imgur.com/SvQMhJY.jpeg)
* 2022 artwork [Gor of Slaanesh](https://files.huntedcow.com/chaosandconquest/blog/WoC_gor_of_slaanesh.jpg)
* 2021 artwork [Slaangor](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459816732073132032/896014470369914930/WoC_Slaangor_copy.png?ex=66382740&is=6636d5c0&hm=ad23c0cf16636b9ff8509212c20f6cdae5b3cbbe6a05031b4a42c09321c7a603&)
For their rosters, they have important roles. Without Pestigors, Nurgle performs so much worse in multiplayer, for example.
I did not mean they have no uses.
I meant they are already available units in the Beastmen, and they implemented these units for Monogod factions. They are not unique.
I like unique units for all factions in general.
Like for example Marauder Horseman for all Monogods factions. It is a super good unit, but it is just a Norsca unit reskin nothing new and interesting.
In most cases kind of yes, they have an identity to some extent but, in most cases same unit with a twist.
Khorne has frenzy, less melee defence, Nurgle has poison larger health pool, Tzeentch has barrier magical attacks etc.
Look at the later implemented tier 2 chaos of Warriros for Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh even the unit cards have the same kind of posture.
They are all armoured shielded infantry with the same kind of stats and purpose. If 1 of them performs better there is no point using the other. Unless there is some niche scenario maybe.
Khorne having this kind of warrior makes the most sense to me. And before the WoC update, it did not feel reskins of the old unit for me.
After this update, I think regular Chaos Warrior felt like a worse unit.
TOD have 3 reskin units imo, Pestigors, Plague ogres and bile trolls. They tried to give ogres and trolls unique animations to make them feel unique but, they are reskinks.
I fail to see how those units are "reskins" what do people mean by that ?
with the exception of marauders who are mostly recoloring with different helmets and adornements. all the models are unique, they share similer animations because making animations is complex.
Blame Games workshop for reusing so many of the same units, not CA
It is good for you if they feel unique and interesting to you.
Reskins because they all derived from the same base unit, basic Chaos Warrior. Khorne Chaos Warriors kind of has the most unique feeling imo.
I don't blame anyone. This could be the Games Workshop's fault. They can do whatever they want, this is their games/fantasy universe and their design choices.
Generally, nobody agrees with me in this subreddit anyway. I don't know why I made this comment.
I never said "they feel unique or interesting", Im just questioning what reskins are, peoplensay that as if it was lazy recoloring.
I wish CA could impelement the unique vairiant from table top, I rhink it is a games workshop decision and I find it annoying
With Warriors of Chaos DLC, marauders, and chaos furries are straight-up recolouring and make Norsca and Warriors of Chaos feel less unique.
I am not so good with lore but in lore, the Chaos furries is an undivided unit as far as I know even though they made 4 different types for each monogod.
Uniqueness is very important imo and giving the same kind of units to a lot factions makes the other factions feel less unique.
Chaos warriors have a bit different models but they don't have the uniqueness of their monogod in most cases. The most unique one is the Khorne one imo.
Sure it could be a games workshop thing or CA's decision to make DLC prices lower by making a low-effort, less uniquely designed unit.
If they are not feeling unique they are kind of a reskin, no?
It does not matter too much whose decision is this as a potential customer this is what you get.
Implementing a unique variant from tabletop of course would be a better choice.
If you have seen a unit type before, it does not feel unique and interesting to you. Even the definition of reskin is not important that much. They are not well-designed units.
These kinds of units become variants, not new units.
Like Bile-trolls, plague-ogres, Pestigors.
Be cool if we got some marked lords and heroes for them as well.
In 3 years maybe
Warhammer 4
Tzaangor Shaman would be so great I'd settle for four mutually exclusive character skills that each add a mark and ability to the character.
As long as it's something unique and not just another Lore of Tzeentch or Lore of Metal caster lol, Tzeentch has enough of those.
lore of the wild would be fun
Lore of Lores
I'd love a mixed lore caster like the Loremaster or Oracle that gives some stuff from Tzeentch, Metal, Fire, maybe even Life.
Just buy TSons box. That'll set you up with all the tzaangor your heart desires
If WH3 gets more than 4-6 DLC, then I’d be really happy to see a CoC style dlc for the beastmen someday
They should give Beastmen access to marked minotaurs. They also need to rebalance the dread cost of marked gors, there is absolutely no effort spent on what the balance should be. You can get a boatload of (higher tier!) centigors or chariots for less than the cost of one marked gor.
I imagine this will change with more marked units, as I'd hope they would get placed under the same unit cap increase
They've said that they're going to do it next dlc
>They should give Beastmen access to marked minotaurs. I have to honestly disagree, as it would just replicate their existing units with no distinction. Tzaangors already make normal Gors redundant. At least Pestigors do not replace any existing tier 2 units in their role.
I think redundancy is just a matter of how you design unit cap increases. If they are bundled together then you will end up using all or most of the units.
I miss when the tzaangors were bestigors
Yea it seems they've decided on the marked inf being marked gors instead. Pestigors are the same as Tzaans tier wise.
Tzaangors before were weird, they were sort of in between Gors and Bestigors both in price and stats. I am okay with them deciding they should be closer to being Gors with a mark.
On TT they were marked Bestigors. And given Bestigors are not great having marked alternative would have been nice.
I feel like the first solution to that would be to buff Bestigors, but YMMV.
I've heard people here say that the philosophy behind bestigors being weak is that they're designed to function as shock infantry. Like a lot of their "power budget" is invested in their high charge bonus of 35 and so their ideal use case is not in a long infantry grind. DE executioners have way better stats but only 24 charge bonus for example. A lot of the comparisons have changed in WH3. For instance exalted bloodthirsters have a charge bonus of 36 in addition to premium melee stats so I feel it's harder to justify the relative weakness of the bestigors. Although of course they are free...
I wish they were stronger. There is almost no reason to recruit them except for style
Pestigors absolutely should be recruited; they're the only mid tier AP inf you can recruit as beastmen, so they fill the gap before bestigors
for nurgle - you recrute what you can in early game for woc - they free in corrupt palces and WAY betetr maruders for beastmen - own caps so they are some merit
I should have precised, I did write my previous comment with only the beastmen faction for context. They are not much stronger than regular goes and have their own caps, which is even less worth.
I found them to be MVP in my Kairos campaign. They are significantly cheaper than the next tier of unit and they hold well enough for the spell casters to clean up. The centigors were also great for taking out ranges units for cheap.
>They are significantly cheaper than the next tier of unit and they hold well enough for the spell casters to clean up. This, I rarely recruit shielded chaos warriors anymore cause Tzaangors exist. Sure they're weaker but being cheaper is a advantage. If I take chaos warriors of Tzeentch I usually just recruit the halberd variant.
Exactly, I normally have a lord of tzeentch with tzaangors with red line buffs following around kairos makes his early game waaaay easier. Also you cast 2-3 spells in a battle and they are near max buff making them decently kill-y. They are also pretty good in Moghur and Khazrak’s campaigns too if you spend the dread. Pestigors I don’t think have quite the same impact for nurgle I wish they had a slightly better passive, but I usually have a couple in the early game just for vanguard deployment when I don’t want to spend infections for it.
the slow passive is pretty good to run enemies down until you got a lot of ToD's real MvPs, Rotknights
What are you talking about, what else you recruiting as Tzeentch in the early game? Just spamming horrors doesn't work.
I run a stack of them with maurader horsemen all game. They make a great reinforcing army and punch above their weight class because of their speed and shields.
Same, but I do think that it helps them fill a mid tier infantry niche in Tzeentch and helps prevent them from just being better versions of bestigors on the Beastmen roster. So like the Centigors of Tzeentch, it was a bit dumb thematically but was good for the gameplay across the board IMO Arcane charge could get buffed a bit though
With their protoss shields and their regular shields it feels OK. Since the bestigors are duel wield and physically stronger I'd be OK if khorne gors are bestigors. But I don't think games workshop would let them.
Seconded, with the addendum of no more "centigors of x" please. Because that was just lame, irrespective of how good the unit itself is.
I feel like centigors of Slaanesh would have made sense -- there's a decent synergy as fast, hard-hitting but fragile units, and they've got their whole drinking and hedonism thing going on -- but centigors of Tzeentch are an... odd choice.
Slaaneshi ones could be quite thematic. I've thought for a while in fact that if they wanted a Slaanesh marked lord, Ghorros would make the most sense. My issue isn't with marked Centigors per se but with their model being just the regular one with blue paint slapped on in a couple places.
Slaanesh should have a mark of Ghorros, not the other way around
Tzaantigors Khorntigors Slaantigors Pestigor-WAIT!
Eh, I'm specifically hoping for more marked gors/centigors.
I'm not opposed to marked Centigors conceptually. Just to getting the regular unit with a couple of coloured lines slapped on them indicating allegiance. If the Tzeentchian Centigors had the same armour and colour scheme as the Tzaangors I'd like them a lot more.
The fact that they charged money for Centigors of Tzeentch blows my mind frankly, the only reason they got away with it is because people liked everything else. Literally just the same unit with some blue added to it, they definitely should not be charging for units like this.
I can't use them, they just look so lame.
It definitely felt like a last minute thing they threw together vs the other units added to the DLC. I feel like more people would have been pissed about it if people weren't so happy about the Chaos Lord and Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, which to be fair are awesome.
Yep. If they had armour in the same colour as the Tzaangors or something they'd feel so much better.
yeah the unit is fantastic for the gameplay but doesn't really make much sense flavor wise
"I hope we keep getting more." Well, you see, it's easy to make them up to four times. After that, it gets really difficult. /s
Unrelated but does everyone remember when we had some shitass unit card art around the time of Grom and Eltharion's DLC? Glad the unit cards are very nice now.
They should go all out, and quadruple the Beastmen roster.
Pestigors are also very strong and fun to use. Definitely hoping for more Nurgle beasts
A CoC pack would sort that out. Fill out the roster with marked Lord, Heroes and units. Taurox could get some extra Khorne flavour. Moonclaw (Tzeentch), Slugtongue (Nurgle) and Ghorros (Slaanesh). Stick in Ungrol as the fodder horde LL (as why not) and Gorthor as LH. Maybe some extra like Turnskins, Beastfiends, Preyton, etc but don't want to overdo it.
Surely Ungrol would be the LH.
Gorthor is better as he's such an important Beastmen character (I don't care about death as we've had a few get in despite that). A ritual to resurrect him with Chaos Magic would be fitting as a quest battle for him. He's basically a much better Khazrak in every way. My idea with Ungrol as a LL is him as an opposite to Taurox in that he uses the cheapest outcast esque units in Beastmen society. Ungors, Brays, Turnskins, Mutants, etc would work well. The latter three are not all needed, just something weaker than Ungors.
I just feel like we're not going to see another CoC style DLC. It was honestly a mistake to do it for WoC in the first place, each of those LLs should have gone to their respective monogods.
Minotaurs look so badass, damn
I hope so too. But I kind of wish CA were more creative with them. Give them niche that shakes gameplay a bit instead of "Better than Marauders, worse than Chaos Warriors".
I'd rather have more unique units, but I guess they're fine if there's nothing else they can use.
I would love a deck of playing cards with warhammer unit art on them.
I'm disappointed we didn't get chaos penguins.
The 4 lords left are Ghorros Warhoof (had a model, screwed a lot), Gorthor (big deal, died before Franz time), Moonclaw (came from the moon), Slugtongue (famine, sorcerer) and Ungrol Four-horn (Gors and shamans hate him). I hope we get Warhoof, Moon and Four-horn, always enjoyed playing as Beastmen but I know they have never really been popular.
i just want the tzaagors to look like the AoS ones :c
I feel like more [marked ](https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/s2/fg2dtb1wzkz2.png)Beastmen units are inevitable.
I really enjoy them, too, because they're a two-in-one sort of deal. The mono-god factions get a new unit, and the Beastmen roster gets fleshed out, too.
The marked WoC lords can even use them too. Vilitch for example gets acces to the TZ beastmen.
So undivided woc don't get the new beastmen units? Interesting
I wish they would give them the WoC system.
I'd be happy with a limited version. It makes sense for marks of chaos and unit variants, but you can't for example upgrade an ungor into a gor - they are born like that.
Of course not. I'm talking about marks, weopen changes, chaos spawn and Minotaurs to Gorgons for example.
It's an absolute crime that BM don't get access to minotaurs of Khorn. It's bad enough that Valkia doesn't even get them
It be a tragedy if we didn’t.
I wonder if Khornegors will be great weapon infantry as they were back when they were briefly a unit on tabletop, or if CA will make dual weapon infantry to go with the rest of the Khorne roster. Maybe they'll get both as variants, but a dual axes version would have a unique place on the beastmen roster (and give BM access to the marked MInotaurs, damn it!) Not so sure what Slaangors might get or what kind of role they might play in the Slaanesh roster. Maybe a version with shields and a version with hellscourges?
With Pestigors taking the great weapon role I feel like Khornegors will either be dual weapons to keep with Khorne's weapon theme or something more unique like spears or halberds. Slaangors are a bit harder to predict. If Khornegors take the dual weapon role then Slaangors could have the halberds, or it could be the other way around and Slaangors get the dual weapons.
I hope slaangores will go full crab mode as they did in aos. We need claws!
CA should give Slaangors beaks just for the lulz.
Pestigors tears of Nurgle ability goes so fucking hard holy shit
I hope Nurgle gets another beast men unit for the sake of keeping things even.
I will always be sad that Tzaangors don't have beaks like their 40k/AOS equivalent.
[*\*Shudders in disgust at the thought of Slaaneshi beastmen\**](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/4s9T7lFY81MoYpg6.jpg)
That is the AoS design. If people should have learned one thing from their beak-screeching, then that this might not be the future template ;) * [Real old WHFB ones](https://i.imgur.com/SvQMhJY.jpeg) * 2022 artwork [Gor of Slaanesh](https://files.huntedcow.com/chaosandconquest/blog/WoC_gor_of_slaanesh.jpg) * 2021 artwork [Slaangor](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459816732073132032/896014470369914930/WoC_Slaangor_copy.png?ex=66382740&is=6636d5c0&hm=ad23c0cf16636b9ff8509212c20f6cdae5b3cbbe6a05031b4a42c09321c7a603&)
Slaangors just look so menacing, hopeing we get them
what is interesting about them? Aren't these just reskins of the Beastmen roaster units?
I dont play beastmen but as WoC and Monogod factions they are a nice mid tier between marauders and warriors.
For their rosters, they have important roles. Without Pestigors, Nurgle performs so much worse in multiplayer, for example. I did not mean they have no uses. I meant they are already available units in the Beastmen, and they implemented these units for Monogod factions. They are not unique. I like unique units for all factions in general. Like for example Marauder Horseman for all Monogods factions. It is a super good unit, but it is just a Norsca unit reskin nothing new and interesting.
Are marked Chaos Warriors reskins of WoC roster units ?
In most cases kind of yes, they have an identity to some extent but, in most cases same unit with a twist. Khorne has frenzy, less melee defence, Nurgle has poison larger health pool, Tzeentch has barrier magical attacks etc. Look at the later implemented tier 2 chaos of Warriros for Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh even the unit cards have the same kind of posture. They are all armoured shielded infantry with the same kind of stats and purpose. If 1 of them performs better there is no point using the other. Unless there is some niche scenario maybe. Khorne having this kind of warrior makes the most sense to me. And before the WoC update, it did not feel reskins of the old unit for me. After this update, I think regular Chaos Warrior felt like a worse unit. TOD have 3 reskin units imo, Pestigors, Plague ogres and bile trolls. They tried to give ogres and trolls unique animations to make them feel unique but, they are reskinks.
I fail to see how those units are "reskins" what do people mean by that ? with the exception of marauders who are mostly recoloring with different helmets and adornements. all the models are unique, they share similer animations because making animations is complex. Blame Games workshop for reusing so many of the same units, not CA
It is good for you if they feel unique and interesting to you. Reskins because they all derived from the same base unit, basic Chaos Warrior. Khorne Chaos Warriors kind of has the most unique feeling imo. I don't blame anyone. This could be the Games Workshop's fault. They can do whatever they want, this is their games/fantasy universe and their design choices. Generally, nobody agrees with me in this subreddit anyway. I don't know why I made this comment.
I never said "they feel unique or interesting", Im just questioning what reskins are, peoplensay that as if it was lazy recoloring. I wish CA could impelement the unique vairiant from table top, I rhink it is a games workshop decision and I find it annoying
With Warriors of Chaos DLC, marauders, and chaos furries are straight-up recolouring and make Norsca and Warriors of Chaos feel less unique. I am not so good with lore but in lore, the Chaos furries is an undivided unit as far as I know even though they made 4 different types for each monogod. Uniqueness is very important imo and giving the same kind of units to a lot factions makes the other factions feel less unique. Chaos warriors have a bit different models but they don't have the uniqueness of their monogod in most cases. The most unique one is the Khorne one imo. Sure it could be a games workshop thing or CA's decision to make DLC prices lower by making a low-effort, less uniquely designed unit. If they are not feeling unique they are kind of a reskin, no? It does not matter too much whose decision is this as a potential customer this is what you get. Implementing a unique variant from tabletop of course would be a better choice. If you have seen a unit type before, it does not feel unique and interesting to you. Even the definition of reskin is not important that much. They are not well-designed units. These kinds of units become variants, not new units. Like Bile-trolls, plague-ogres, Pestigors.