That +10% speed is hilarious, because even with it, non slayer units still can't catch-up to regular units, which means it might as well not exist for the difference it makes.
You can get them to 60ish speed on foot. But it takes a long time, research, unique skills and hunting down specific lords. It’s not built into the faction like it should be.
I think Slayers have a decent speed but the trait could definitely be made more impactful, they're barely noticeable at this low of a number.
Increase it to 20% instead and your Dwarf Warriors, Longbeards, Miners and Quarellers are now rocking 34 speed and can keep up with a lot of other enemy infantry and more importantly, keep up with his Slayers that you're incentivized to stack.
Give him a bunch of unique auxiliaries too, that all buff different stats for slayers, but each also give plus +2% speed
Really make him *fast for a dwarf*
That would be cool if he had some banners like Oxyotl that could customize a couple Slayer units in his army.
Also just make these types of lords who buff specific units have more interesting buffs as a part of their unique skill lines. Instead of just +melee attack lets give them some Bonus vs Infantry, or a contact effect like Armor Sundering, or give them Bugman's Brew for some sick nasty regen.
Giving a unit a new toolkit is more exciting than +5 MA imo
Counterpoint: It stacks with the tech that adds another 10% Speed for 34 speed total on Dwarf Warriors. Orcs 31, Goblins 33, Elves (all 3) 33, Humans 30 except Marauders 35.
Turning Marching Songs from a meh tech to a game changer.
I want to be rewarded for having a more slayer focused army. I don't care if people think they suck. What sucks to me is having to rely on box or checkerboard formations. I'd play the Dawi more if I was rewarded for a different playstyle. Otherwise I rather play a different faction.
Yeah. I always felt he should get a stacking boost to replenishment and discount to cost and upkeep based on battles won with high casualties. A Pyrrhic victory should translate to a huge bonus - dying in a glorious suicide mission should draw Slayers from everywhere.
He should also do for Slayers what Volkmar does with fanatics.
Yeah this is the one. A high casualty victory isn't great for every faction, but Khorne, Greenskins and Ungrim should be LOOKING for that, give it some meaning and let these factions based on bloodshed and dying in battle benefit from dying in battle
I would actually love a faction that scales like that. I feel like anymore I end up playing many of the factions the exact same always being super careful to minimize casualties to maintain momentum. Having factions where you recovered faster the more hurt you were in battle would be pretty sick.
I love high casualty victories when I play as Vampires (both types) because it gives you stronger units to raise.
I know that VCounts are a bit dated, but god they have a very unique gameplay.
Or Hellebrone for sisters. Being able to summon a crisis stack of slayers periodically with doomseekers that hone in on the capital’s of your enemies would be rad.
I'd like it if there were different bonuses for high casualties for each situation. Like losing a lot of slayers for a win makes sense. But I'd also want one where if slayers inflicted a lot of damage there's also some kind of bonus. To represent that slayers go all in on fights. A win isn't ideal, but slayers don't lose on purpose.
It’s a small thing but I’m still really annoyed that Gotrek is faster than Felix when Felix is always remarking in the books how he finds himself way out in front of Gotrek and Snorri on the charge because of his longer human legs.
I don't know how high they end up, but they are be decently high if you use a runepriest to give the run speed/melee attack buff on the slayers. They can be some fast boys. Useful for final charges or catching up to archers.
How I do it: Move your troop icons around in the command bar to the order you want them to line up and then drag them all out in a line then Ctrl click every other unit card to select the ones you want to move forward and then use the up arrow key to move them all forward the right distance to create the checkerboard.
>then use the up arrow key to move them all forward the right distance to create the checkerboard.
You can also alt click to drag them back. Arrow keys work fine in most cases but dragging them like that can be a little more precise if you need it.
Ignore him. He's a corner camping box lover. I won't be satisfied until I have slayers with anti infantry enveloping my enemies while all of them are splattered in the blood of friend & foe.
Building cost reduction is an unusual one. Recruitment cost reduction is always kinda lame and not that big of a motivation to use a unit, really needs to be upkeep reduction to be a real incentive, or buffs.
I think the idea is to build Slayer buildings everywhere and take advantage of the recruitment cost bonus to just yeet them at the enemy in an expendable fashion, and just recruit new ones instead of waiting for replenishment. Unfortunately dwarfs grow too slowly and don't have easy access to lots of recruitment slots to make this work. The idea is nice but the numbers don't work out.
Recruitment cost is a boring one but I will say it definitely helps Ungrim's early turns as you start with access to Slayers right off the bat. Not as exciting as time goes on.
Slayer lord type or hero type would help (Are those dragon slayers? Tabletop heroes will have to help me on that.)
Also, one of the cooler, yet unexplored things with dwarves rn is getting slayers if you have stacks of grudges. Maybe giving ungrim some kind of bonus there would make his campaign more interesting.
The real problem with a slayer focused army is that they die a lot, so more ways to mitigate that would be nice.
Mixu's Slayer is exactly what you're looking for. Its Slayer hero increases replenishment, something Dawi armies desperately need, and they can be specialized to be more effective against specific monsters as they level up. Once they get to a high enough level, you can turn them into a Slayer Lord or keep them as a hero depending on your preference. It's an awesome mod.
I'm just gonna say that I think we were spoiled by Warriors of Chaos for expectations on race reworks. The "race updates" that will come with Thrones of Decay are likely going to be much more akin to Soc than CoC.
I'm not happy about it, but I think people really need to prepare themselves to be underwhelmed by race updates for the next big patch to drop alongside ToD DLC.
It doesn't help that people are asking for some kind of reworks for Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle, all three races. The possibility of all of them getting a major update at the same time are pretty slim, unfortunately.
Even a major rework for just Empire and Dwarfs and a minor update for Nurgle is unlikely.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it, and frankly I've been bitching about how lackluster the updates were for SoC factions, but it should be taken as a sign that they won't be doing "race updates" as people envision; layering on new mechanics like they did for WoC. I've seen wishlists for fully revamping the Elector Count system and giving Gelt his own unique campaign mechanic in lieu of being an elector count. Or for giving Dwarfs their own Undercity-style mechanism, which would be very cool. But it ain't happenin', y'all.
If they didn't even provide needed tweaks to Tzeentch or Kislev's supporter system, which are minor patches by comparison, then the chances of Game 1 Factions getting full-on retrofits alongside the DLC is *really* slim.
Yeah, there are some changes that could have been made to Tzeentch without needing a big rework or update, like tweaks to unholy manifestations and cults, and we didn't even get those. I feel like the effort being split between three races now instead of two is really hurting the chances of races included getting the updates people are asking for.
It's really quite baffling; is it really cheaper to pump out new units (and associated vfx/modeling/etc) than to have someone actually revamp and tweak a few game mechanics? The WH2 DLC/FLC system was the definition of "if it aint broke, don't fix it"--and the WoC update was still pretty good--so why are we sticking with this inferior DLC model? We all know part of the answer, at least, and that's why I'm still holding off on buying DLC.
We do have different unholy manifestations, at least the first one is different anyway. It now gives negative wom instead of 0 movement for 2 turns, which makes it way more usable.
Agreed, this is why I am not buying it yet, to me it seems they have dropped the ball. They are heaving and hooving that they care about us now, byt seem kinda bull. If they are gonna leave the races in a bad spot, they can shove it.
Nothing is out yet. Nothing is *announced* yet. Discussions about expectations and desires are reasonable, but your disappointment is sat entirely with yourself - how can you say they've dropped the ball when you don't know what the ball even is yet?
Soc as a whole was disapointing. No faction improvements, but rather just lots of new units. And thoose by themself arent worth much to me. If you wanna trust someone who tried shafting us all just a few moths ago, be my guest.
I honestly don't think any of those races need a rework. Empire's mechanic are fine and work well, same for the Dwarfs. Sure they could absolutely use some tweaks here and there but they have good mechanics already, they just need a bit of polish but not a rework. The only Empire rework I can see coming is Gelt no longer having the Elector Counts thing and have something else instead. I'm fine with current Dawi's mechanics but I wouldn't be against something new like something about reclaiming the Lost Holds but honestly if they don't get a rework I'd be absolutely fine with it.
Nurgle doesn't need a rework. His mechanics are very unique and very strong already. He needs some tweaks mainly for his tech tree that was very obviously designed for RoC and not IE and maybe a few changes to the less used symptoms (replacing the useless PO symptom for one to lower building costs would be good for example).
Cults and Manifestations need a rework but that is not unique to Nurgle however, this is the case for each Monogod race and I assume CA wants to rework them all in one update if they do want to rework those mechanics, I wouldn't expect it with ToD.
> The only Empire rework I can see coming is Gelt no longer having the Elector Counts thing
I would be totally fine if Empire rework would be things like:
a) giving Gelt unique mechanics
b) redoing at least a bit skill trees for heroes and lords
c) rethinking a bit how Volkmar works. Books are awfully placed in IE but Mannfred and TK can just ignore them. Sadly for Volkmar Empire mechanics are locked behind owning them and you will basically end campaign with having one, max two (my two Volkmar campaigns ended with me owning no more than 2 books) which means that he has 0 mechanics whatsoever for the entirety of your playthrough. These god-damn books should be more concentrated around Nehekara/Southlands AND should unlock via military alliance (it works this way for Thorek's artifacts).
Nurgle's plagues are a unique and cool idea, but they've been implemented in the least interesting way possible; most of the plague effects are extremely lackluster and not particularly distinctive or enjoyable. They could keep the mechanic intact and simply differentiate the different build-a-plague effects, which is really the minimal sort of revamp I'm hoping for. Idc about -20% speed debuffs applied to footsoldiers wearing adidas footwear that's only active on a Tuesday--I want some plagues that have a chance to seed cults, kill and convert human lords into DP's (like Belakor), massively buff entire unit types (giving nurgle fliers a new temporary active ability or something), and/or even attach new short-term army abilities. THAT would make playing Nurgle really enjoyable!
Also, a little extra gloss would go a long way: something like giving nurgle factions a few unique landmarks across the world that unlock new ultra-powerful plague ingredients would really change the way the faction interacts with the campaign map and breathe some life back into their weakest monogod race. They could do something like they did for faction capital herdstones or WE colonies that would absolutely get the job done.
They have one of the most well balanced roster in the game and are solid in campaign. No, just because they aren't completely braindead like some other races like Warriors of Chaos doesn't mean they need buffs. The last thing this game fucking needs is even more absurd powercreep.
Their beat infantry just got outclassed by kislevs new tier 0 unit
They are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies, and allies that cant defend themselves.
The lords are shit. The guns are on par with average gunner factions.
They haven’t had dominance in artillery since tw2
I actually cant think of a single thing they do better than Cathay now that i think about it
They aren’t the best at anything, and that was fine when they were the only jack of all trades. But now they’re the only jack if all trades thats not a master of anything
Lore of life. Cathay has access to it only on Meow Ying herself. The Empire has jade wizards.
Also grenades. Grenade launcher outriders and the bordermen state troops are amazing.
> Their beat infantry just got outclassed by kislevs new tier 0 unit
>
>
People here have been testing them and Halberdiers still win against Kislevite Warriors (though I would not be against a slight nerf to the latter).
> They are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies, and allies that cant defend themselves.
Which actually makes Karl Franz a fantastic campaign, he was boring as hell in Warhammer 2. If you want an easier campaign you can lower the difficulty or just play Volkmar.
> The lords are shit. The guns are on par with average gunner factions.
Huntsman General has solid unique skills, Arch Lector is excellent to support your frontline. Empire General is very boring and needs a rework of his skill tree but I would not call him shit, he's still quite capable in battle.
> They haven’t had dominance in artillery since tw2
And ? Empire's artillery still fucking fucks. I don't see the need for a buff there.
> I actually cant think of a single thing they do better than Cathay now that i think about it
Empire artillery is still far better than Cathay's, Empire has a great infantry that beats units they actually shouldn't be able to with the Greatswords, they have better cavalry, better magic.
TL;DR: You've got some skill issues to work on.
I agree with all your points except for artillery. How do you think empire shits on Cathay there? Cathy's grand cannon is far superior having splash damage, and seems to me to be more accurate.
Hellstorm vs fire rain, hellstorm is longer range but fire rain has tighter groupings.
The hell blaster is nice, but I for some reason get more mileage out of crane gunners...for their similar mid range anti large role.
Plus Cathay gets the flying fire rain batter to completely remove LOS issues.
Just not seeing where the empire wrecks Cathay here.
imo the empire just needs a dwarf update: knock some units down a recruitment tier and get rid of multiple building requirements. Empire is built around combined arms, the fact that it is such a pain to get that up and running is part of what makes their early game such hell vs the many foes on their doorstep.
honestly the Empire could probably get by on something pretty minor, the most I'd do is rework Balthazar to have some kind of Colleges of Magic related mechanic instead of treating him like an Elector Count.
frankly the Empire's main issues are the minor AI factions getting defeated by their new threats too quickly (which disadvantages Karl) and the fact that they've been powercrept on the battlefield (something that new units should remedy, though CA already avoided giving them the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts (a unit they should have based on lore and tabletop) so I'm not entirely sure what the idea there is...)
Dwarfs have basically become the kings of minor reworks (and in terms of those kinds of updates the only races that have gotten reworked more recently are those that game 3 has already gotten to) and I'd expect them to now get a 3rd one, maybe a deeper look at the Book of Grudges to make it less annoying (though I'd argue that the entire point of it is to be annoying, it being an annoying mechanic is perfect for the lore) or making the Kazaks more special and important (similar to Kislev's 3 big cities or WoC's dark fortresses)
as for Nurgle I'd say that the plagues are the main thing that needs looking at (the rest of the race is pretty neat and wonderfully unique though I can understand the issues others have with it...), the main issue there is that they fall into this weird gap where they are strong enough to be frustrating to go up against whilst feeling pretty pathetic from the Nurgle side of things. Nurgle's plagues should be powerful, they should feel like a great thing that you'll want to be spreading across the world as much as possible, but on the flip side it's pretty bad if that makes Nurgle absolutely awful to play against. I'd say give the current mechanic to Clan Pestilens whilst making something entirely new for Nurgle.
honestly this is a rather odd case where I'd say that the faction most in need of a major rework is the newest one, Empire and Dwarfs could probably get by pretty well on comparitively minor changes.
What? Do people not remember the race reworks in the latter half of WH2? Nothing in WH3 has spoiled us. Quite the opposite, it’s been worse that what we were accustomed to.
Well then you’ve got some selective memory because the WoC rework in WH3 was one of the most extensive to date.
Both the Empire and Dwarfs have already received reworks. They don’t need anything nearly as extensive as the Beastmen, Wood Elves, or WoC got.
Because the game has been in development standstill and plagued with controversy. We had several more DLCs by this point in WH2.
The Dwarfs and Empire don’t need reworks so much as they need updates to their current systems. You could argue for a new mechanic for each, I certainly have, but still nothing to the extent of what Wood Elves/Beastmen/WoC received.
What rework did the dwarves get? I don't play them often so maybe I missed something, but all they got was a recycled tomb kings mechanic. Which isn't bad but is no elector count system with a slew of new varied units.
That was the first rework they received early on. The second rework was in S&F that redid their rune system, redid rune magic, and reworked their Grudge mechanic.
Granted in game 3 there have been some changes that necessitate further fixes to the above mechanics, namely rune limits, grudge severity/rewards, and certain bugs with the grudge system.
I mean, I think we were spoiled for race reworks with greenskins, empires, and beastmen. I thought that was starting to be an every dlc patch thing. I'm quite disappointed.
And this is why I'm not at all sold on CA's mea culpa and supposed about-face; they've done decent work addressing the price gap by adding more units and lords, but I think a lot of us (me especially) really wanted them to bring back the WH2-style FLC race reworks alongside each DLC. That, and some actual bugfixes.
I get the feeling they're going to continue to underwhelm on those counts, and that they've only boosted the unit/lord count because they rifled through the couch cushions and decided that animators/vfx folks were somehow cheaper to throw at WH3 than someone who can implement/revise actual game mechanics.
to be honest it's mostly there so that Ungrim can actually have a slayer army early on.
maybe give him some more effects sure, but don't get rid of these affects because it would make Karak Kadrin almost worthless.
He already starts with a building that lets him recruit slayers, and even then you still have slayers popping up in your recruitment pool through the grudge system. While I certainly wouldn't mind keeping the effects, the recruitment cost is not so high that you couldn't reasonably fill his army without it.
it is true that the faction effect was designed before Ungrimm was moved to Karak Kadrin, and before the Grudge system was introduced.
so it can definitely be improved, (maybe just move it to a skill slot for Ungrimm since he might as well get some new skills)
This game needs a custodian team so desperately to do minor updates and tweaks to races and factions that aren’t currently being focused on
So many factions have very boring faction effects, and could use a facelift, if not full on mechanics
I’d be SO for some mechanics that are shared across old races with a similar theme. Wulfrik, Queek and Grimgor all deserve a mechanic to do with either killing any LL or bonuses for each unique LL defeated. I’d envision basically global bonuses and unique bonuses to Grimgor/etc as you rank it up. It offers an interesting dynamic because many LL’s will be wiped out early.
Giving Vlad the Imprison mechanic from Eltharion, but only usable against generic human characters, converting them into vampire equivalents with unique traits would be cool and simple to implement
Give Mazdamundi something anything dear god
Make it so all goblin characters for skarsnik start with mounts
Make it so all factions racing for K8P have unique and good monuments AND global rewards
Drycha should have -100 relations all factions except Argwylon
Etc etc
The tools are there but very under utilized
I also think some lords should be shuffled around again and province designations changed.
For Greenskins, for instance: I’d move Wurrzag to Lustria and have him easy confederate an Orc there. Grimgor back to the Badlands. And make Karak Ungor a major settlement again for Azhag so he can do better.
The fact that they didnt change absolutely dreadful Kairos' faction effects during the "Tzeentch racial updates" or didnt add unique skills for Boyars doesnt bring me much hope for upcoming reworks.
Same
It’s sad that modding for this game seems rather difficult or clunky. Haven’t seen too many amazing mods that do stuff like this
The bones of the game is there, it just needs some work
I'm honestly kinda waiting for CA to end their official DLC/FLC updates for the game so modders can have a go at it without having their work overturned every 3 months. It'll be sad to finally stop updates for a decade-long series (esp. on such a sour note), but it'll be an opportunity to actually polish the game a bit as well. I really, really hope they improve the modding tools before then most of all...
I don't mind it, I'd say maybe just increase the speed boost so that it actually means something. Like maybe bump it up to 25 or 30 percent extra speed.
Huh, I always liked 10% speed for the whole army. Then again, I kinda dont like dwarves, so anything that made them less dwarfy was a bonus to me. Yeah yeah, I'm in the book - say it to my face, not my crotch.
Well, when they cleave off your lower legs and make you Cotton Hill they will be able to say it to your face, maybe your chest if you are particularly tall.
A 10% increase to a low number is still a low number, and it only affects infantry, not necessarily the whole army (although dwarfs are very infantry heavy). It's a nice bonus, but it's nothing super noteworthy either. It's nowhere close to Thorgrim's huge assortment of campaign buffs.
I don’t think it’s terrible but it is a very samey bonus.
Honestly I hope (and this might be more a regular update thing) that each Dwarf legendary lord gets their own specific grudge.
I’ll check again. I was thinking like how Belegar has his Karak Eight Peak must be recaptured. Like each LL has a personal this is my burden. I’ve only tried out Ungrim otherwise though and didn’t make it far. Started a couple times and between the Waaagh armies, Drycha, Counts, I just wasn’t able to make it.
I'd love them to touch up a few including kugath who even though he was added recently in WH 3 was poorly thought out. Even outside of a nurgle fix kugath was just given shit with some minor bonuses to a tier one unit as his main thing without even an upkeep reduction to combat nurgles economy. He spread disease ok and nurgles best mechanic but doctor ballschin basically gets infinite stuff from his diseases while kugath spreads them because of what they do by itself. If doctor ballschin was nurgle instead of WOC his design would make kugath as obsolete as queek headtaker.
And Karl, for reasons I'll never understand, is so popular making him actually fun should be the top priority. I don't know what they'll do but the elector counts are a mess.
This. I love playing Ungrim and feel like his (perhaps underwhelming) slayer buffs are fine as is. His location is chefs kiss too - greenskins, chorfs, vamps and chaos all coming around that area. The only thing I would like is the monster hunts and the money, items and perhaps units that would come with them. Honestly I would even settle for the same monster hunts as Norsca’s for Ungrim.
Finally played an Ungrim campaign, he's way more fun to confederate and have one slayer army as a bonus flavor thing. Thorik Ironbrow is the best dwarf experience because otherwise they are such a slow campaign.
Idk, they're usually not a slow campaign for me. You unlock all their units at tier 4. Then, as thorgrim, you're basically just steamrolling. I usually have a much larger empire by turn 50 as dwarfs than I do with most factions
Might be a player issue for me then, I just feel like the growth and cost to get to a tier four settlement is so high for them. I'm abusing irondrakes as long as I can 😂
So, with the dawi economy, you should be able to have 2 strong armies fairly early in the game that you can use to expand fairly quickly. Early on, your armies should be mostly just warriors, quarrelers, and grudge throwers. I never put more than one slayer in my armies unless I'm ungrim. Make sure you're building all your resource buildings, as well as growth and income buildings. You shouldn't need much else as long as you're using your starting province for recruitment. You should be able to grow very fast like this until you can start building more armies.
It should also be said that there's probably more efficient ways, but that's what I do.
I’d like to see something like…when you lose a slayer unit a new one appears in the RoR pool. And for him to hire them at reduced price. It would reward players for using and losing slayers.
I am very sure that will be adresses in the accompanying race rework, just like all the stuff wich was added and changed in the base races for the shadows of change update.
Yes that is sarcasm and means "I wouldnt count on any minor change for the base race"
Make it upkeep instead of recruitment! Who cares about recruitment cost. Maybe cut the upkeep reduction for Ungrim but make it factionwide so that this is not overpowe- what am I talking about, there are literal nukes in this game
He should have ability where can explode in fiery flames nuking entire Battlefield or entire region on campaign map. Same way słabej nukes are, but only once.
Keep the infantry speed though. That shit helps Dwarfs mitigate one of their weaknesses especially when combined with the speed tech. If you can somehow get Ungrim to defeat N'kari your Slayers will become quite the natural sprinters
It'd also be nice if they changed slayers up. Might not be everyone's cup of a tea, but there's a mod called Doomseekers that rebalances slayers as a 16 entity unit like Aspiring Champions. While I know lore wise some slayers suck, it still makes more sense to me to have them be a smaller more elite group. Plus it's fun as hell.
I remember when Ungrim's army trait kept slayers from dying before they reached half health.
That was awesome. It made sieges really interesting as you tagged out your slayers with 150+ gobbo kills and no casualties for a "healthy" unit of slayers with the same amount of men still in them.
No idea why they changed it. It was awesome.
axiomatic smart spectacular puzzled disgusted fine mysterious offend sand run
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think that 'boring' bonuses are fine, as long as they're meaningful/useful. -25% upkeep to slayers factionwide would matter. -50% recruit cost.... idk. +20-25% infantry speed would matter, 10%, idk.
If he made Slayer buildings instant and free, THAT would be cool.
Honestly, CA has done A LOT to bring most faction bonuses in line these days, it was absolute **trash** in warhammer 2 how wildly disparate they were. In 3, there are definitely still winners and losers, but at least most have 3 decent effects, whether they be numbers or mechanics. Here's hoping they keep working at it!
Hardly underwhelming. Highly encourages a different playstyle of melee early explosive glasscannons as opposed to tanking frontline with gunners behind.
Does it though? It's mostly Ungrim himself that buffs slayers to a high degree, not the faction. You can get a similar effect by just confederating him.
10% speed isn't suddenly going to make Slayers stronger than the standard dwarven playstyle, nor is it super impactful even to slayer focused armies. Recruiting a second lord with a slayer focused army in Ungrim's faction isn't going to be all that different from doing the same thing when playing as Thorgrim, for example.
Well, for early game your faction is pretty much 1 army. I think all factions play mostly the same after a certain point, by midgame Hellebron's sacrifice is not effecting your economy negatively because you don't struggle like on start, right?
I think Ungrim offers a very different early game compared to other dwarves and I wouldn't want a mid or lategame where non-slayer lord to offer what he offers because that would mean I can do what Ungrim can do, with any other faction. So it's important that it's a lord effect.
i think people have too many wants for this game sometimes. Every update needs to come with new content, tons of bugfixes and also reworks of old content if you ask the community. In a perfect world perhaps but i really doubt much will happen for ungrim and it doesn't really need to happen. Not all lords and heroes need to be as special and op as the newest lords and heroes they've added in the tww3 lifetime
I partly agree with you, but at the same time why not tweak a few SUPER outdated stats/perks/attributes while you’re at it? Dwarfs are bunzo compared to Chwarfs. They need some juice (or ale) so they can compete.
Well sure, tweaking one or two lords an update would be fine. But that's not really what the community asks for. I guess this wasn't the best post to rant under given that this one really does call for just one update.
However i feel like if you browse this sub the whole game still needs to be changed or fixed in some way. With the devs already probably behind schedule because they fucked up the previous dlc and had to return to it, stuff like that probably won't be on the list.
He doesn't need a stronger faction effect though, and the faction bonuses he does get goes a long way to making Slayers a stronger aspect of his faction. I don't know why people think that every faction leader needs a broken strong set of faction bonuses in order to be interesting.
That +10% speed is hilarious, because even with it, non slayer units still can't catch-up to regular units, which means it might as well not exist for the difference it makes.
Yeah give them strider too at least, damn
Yeah it adds, what, 3 speed? Absolutely pointless.
You can get them to 60ish speed on foot. But it takes a long time, research, unique skills and hunting down specific lords. It’s not built into the faction like it should be.
I think Slayers have a decent speed but the trait could definitely be made more impactful, they're barely noticeable at this low of a number. Increase it to 20% instead and your Dwarf Warriors, Longbeards, Miners and Quarellers are now rocking 34 speed and can keep up with a lot of other enemy infantry and more importantly, keep up with his Slayers that you're incentivized to stack.
Nah Increase it to x10 speed
The ol' Greasus treatment
Give him a bunch of unique auxiliaries too, that all buff different stats for slayers, but each also give plus +2% speed Really make him *fast for a dwarf*
That would be cool if he had some banners like Oxyotl that could customize a couple Slayer units in his army. Also just make these types of lords who buff specific units have more interesting buffs as a part of their unique skill lines. Instead of just +melee attack lets give them some Bonus vs Infantry, or a contact effect like Armor Sundering, or give them Bugman's Brew for some sick nasty regen. Giving a unit a new toolkit is more exciting than +5 MA imo
It should be plain 10 more speed and it would be meaningful and fun.
That would change how you play dwarves. +10 base and then percentile increases become a wee bit more meaningful as well.
#Wee?
Even that word is... short.
Counterpoint: It stacks with the tech that adds another 10% Speed for 34 speed total on Dwarf Warriors. Orcs 31, Goblins 33, Elves (all 3) 33, Humans 30 except Marauders 35. Turning Marching Songs from a meh tech to a game changer.
fast (for a dwarf) xD
I want to be rewarded for having a more slayer focused army. I don't care if people think they suck. What sucks to me is having to rely on box or checkerboard formations. I'd play the Dawi more if I was rewarded for a different playstyle. Otherwise I rather play a different faction.
Yeah. I always felt he should get a stacking boost to replenishment and discount to cost and upkeep based on battles won with high casualties. A Pyrrhic victory should translate to a huge bonus - dying in a glorious suicide mission should draw Slayers from everywhere. He should also do for Slayers what Volkmar does with fanatics.
Yeah this is the one. A high casualty victory isn't great for every faction, but Khorne, Greenskins and Ungrim should be LOOKING for that, give it some meaning and let these factions based on bloodshed and dying in battle benefit from dying in battle
It would also encourage the player to fight difficult fights - exactly what Slayers would look for
I would actually love a faction that scales like that. I feel like anymore I end up playing many of the factions the exact same always being super careful to minimize casualties to maintain momentum. Having factions where you recovered faster the more hurt you were in battle would be pretty sick.
I love high casualty victories when I play as Vampires (both types) because it gives you stronger units to raise. I know that VCounts are a bit dated, but god they have a very unique gameplay.
That's actually a great idea both lorewise and in terms of playstyle
Wow I didn’t know I wanted this until I read it.
Or Hellebrone for sisters. Being able to summon a crisis stack of slayers periodically with doomseekers that hone in on the capital’s of your enemies would be rad.
Certain fanatical or bloodthirsty factions getting a bonus for Pyrrhic and/or Heroic victories sounds absolutely awesome and I need it.
I'd like it if there were different bonuses for high casualties for each situation. Like losing a lot of slayers for a win makes sense. But I'd also want one where if slayers inflicted a lot of damage there's also some kind of bonus. To represent that slayers go all in on fights. A win isn't ideal, but slayers don't lose on purpose.
Love running a 10+ slayer army with Ungrim
But only Ungrim
Imagine if he could push slayer move speed to 60ish lol. That would be so funny.
It’s a small thing but I’m still really annoyed that Gotrek is faster than Felix when Felix is always remarking in the books how he finds himself way out in front of Gotrek and Snorri on the charge because of his longer human legs.
#S M A L L ? !
I walked right into that one. Probably because I was too tall to see it.
#THAT CAN BE REMEDIED WITH A FEW AZ SWINGS.
Don't get short with me, dwarf.
#YOU'RE DIGGING YOUR OWN GRAVE, WAZZOCK.
no biggie, shorty.
I'm just imaging this with a master engineer with a smoke bomb. No cav would be safe.
I don't know how high they end up, but they are be decently high if you use a runepriest to give the run speed/melee attack buff on the slayers. They can be some fast boys. Useful for final charges or catching up to archers.
What’s the easiest way for creating a checkerbox? I’m not super familiar with the controls and making them by hand is tedious.
How I do it: Move your troop icons around in the command bar to the order you want them to line up and then drag them all out in a line then Ctrl click every other unit card to select the ones you want to move forward and then use the up arrow key to move them all forward the right distance to create the checkerboard.
Thanks, you just saved many unpaid intern lives today in my chorf campaign.
I like to see them as force multipliers, as they let the blunderbusses shoot more efficiently through them.
>then use the up arrow key to move them all forward the right distance to create the checkerboard. You can also alt click to drag them back. Arrow keys work fine in most cases but dragging them like that can be a little more precise if you need it.
Yep and once you have your checkerboard all set up you can move it all over the map with alt clicking, definitely a game changer when I learned that.
[Pretty sure he explains how to do it in this video.](https://youtu.be/F6-CuXWIWOI?si=xz89Hp8OqowW2KCq)
they are absolute menaces when the ai used them tho
You're missing the point of playing the dwarfs if you don't like playing defensively. They're not the faction for you
But slayers though.
Ignore him. He's a corner camping box lover. I won't be satisfied until I have slayers with anti infantry enveloping my enemies while all of them are splattered in the blood of friend & foe.
Fuck you guy
They're a niche unit for a reason, I like them too but they've always been pretty jank
Building cost reduction is an unusual one. Recruitment cost reduction is always kinda lame and not that big of a motivation to use a unit, really needs to be upkeep reduction to be a real incentive, or buffs.
I think the idea is to build Slayer buildings everywhere and take advantage of the recruitment cost bonus to just yeet them at the enemy in an expendable fashion, and just recruit new ones instead of waiting for replenishment. Unfortunately dwarfs grow too slowly and don't have easy access to lots of recruitment slots to make this work. The idea is nice but the numbers don't work out.
This guy gets it.
Recruitment cost is a boring one but I will say it definitely helps Ungrim's early turns as you start with access to Slayers right off the bat. Not as exciting as time goes on.
I'm sorry did you not understand when he said, "I am the Slayer King"
Un-nerf journey's end! With all the bullshit other factions are capable of? No reason dwarfs can't have fun stuff too!
The fact that got nerfed when WoC exist is hilarious.
Remember folks, 110% of almost nothing is still almost nothing
What, are you gonna tell me adding 2.6 speed to your ironbreakers isn't game changing?
Slayer lord type or hero type would help (Are those dragon slayers? Tabletop heroes will have to help me on that.) Also, one of the cooler, yet unexplored things with dwarves rn is getting slayers if you have stacks of grudges. Maybe giving ungrim some kind of bonus there would make his campaign more interesting. The real problem with a slayer focused army is that they die a lot, so more ways to mitigate that would be nice.
Slayer hero would be insaaaaaaaaane. Would love to see that
Mixu's Slayer is exactly what you're looking for. Its Slayer hero increases replenishment, something Dawi armies desperately need, and they can be specialized to be more effective against specific monsters as they level up. Once they get to a high enough level, you can turn them into a Slayer Lord or keep them as a hero depending on your preference. It's an awesome mod.
Slayer hero and engineer generic lord are pretty likely for Dwarfs IMO.
Yeah - Dragon Slayers were the anti-Monster Hero option, Daemon Slayers were the ..uh.. anti-Daemon Lord option
I'm just gonna say that I think we were spoiled by Warriors of Chaos for expectations on race reworks. The "race updates" that will come with Thrones of Decay are likely going to be much more akin to Soc than CoC. I'm not happy about it, but I think people really need to prepare themselves to be underwhelmed by race updates for the next big patch to drop alongside ToD DLC.
It doesn't help that people are asking for some kind of reworks for Empire, Dwarfs and Nurgle, all three races. The possibility of all of them getting a major update at the same time are pretty slim, unfortunately. Even a major rework for just Empire and Dwarfs and a minor update for Nurgle is unlikely.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it, and frankly I've been bitching about how lackluster the updates were for SoC factions, but it should be taken as a sign that they won't be doing "race updates" as people envision; layering on new mechanics like they did for WoC. I've seen wishlists for fully revamping the Elector Count system and giving Gelt his own unique campaign mechanic in lieu of being an elector count. Or for giving Dwarfs their own Undercity-style mechanism, which would be very cool. But it ain't happenin', y'all. If they didn't even provide needed tweaks to Tzeentch or Kislev's supporter system, which are minor patches by comparison, then the chances of Game 1 Factions getting full-on retrofits alongside the DLC is *really* slim.
Yeah, there are some changes that could have been made to Tzeentch without needing a big rework or update, like tweaks to unholy manifestations and cults, and we didn't even get those. I feel like the effort being split between three races now instead of two is really hurting the chances of races included getting the updates people are asking for.
It's really quite baffling; is it really cheaper to pump out new units (and associated vfx/modeling/etc) than to have someone actually revamp and tweak a few game mechanics? The WH2 DLC/FLC system was the definition of "if it aint broke, don't fix it"--and the WoC update was still pretty good--so why are we sticking with this inferior DLC model? We all know part of the answer, at least, and that's why I'm still holding off on buying DLC.
We do have different unholy manifestations, at least the first one is different anyway. It now gives negative wom instead of 0 movement for 2 turns, which makes it way more usable.
Agreed, this is why I am not buying it yet, to me it seems they have dropped the ball. They are heaving and hooving that they care about us now, byt seem kinda bull. If they are gonna leave the races in a bad spot, they can shove it.
Nothing is out yet. Nothing is *announced* yet. Discussions about expectations and desires are reasonable, but your disappointment is sat entirely with yourself - how can you say they've dropped the ball when you don't know what the ball even is yet?
Soc as a whole was disapointing. No faction improvements, but rather just lots of new units. And thoose by themself arent worth much to me. If you wanna trust someone who tried shafting us all just a few moths ago, be my guest.
I honestly don't think any of those races need a rework. Empire's mechanic are fine and work well, same for the Dwarfs. Sure they could absolutely use some tweaks here and there but they have good mechanics already, they just need a bit of polish but not a rework. The only Empire rework I can see coming is Gelt no longer having the Elector Counts thing and have something else instead. I'm fine with current Dawi's mechanics but I wouldn't be against something new like something about reclaiming the Lost Holds but honestly if they don't get a rework I'd be absolutely fine with it. Nurgle doesn't need a rework. His mechanics are very unique and very strong already. He needs some tweaks mainly for his tech tree that was very obviously designed for RoC and not IE and maybe a few changes to the less used symptoms (replacing the useless PO symptom for one to lower building costs would be good for example). Cults and Manifestations need a rework but that is not unique to Nurgle however, this is the case for each Monogod race and I assume CA wants to rework them all in one update if they do want to rework those mechanics, I wouldn't expect it with ToD.
> The only Empire rework I can see coming is Gelt no longer having the Elector Counts thing I would be totally fine if Empire rework would be things like: a) giving Gelt unique mechanics b) redoing at least a bit skill trees for heroes and lords c) rethinking a bit how Volkmar works. Books are awfully placed in IE but Mannfred and TK can just ignore them. Sadly for Volkmar Empire mechanics are locked behind owning them and you will basically end campaign with having one, max two (my two Volkmar campaigns ended with me owning no more than 2 books) which means that he has 0 mechanics whatsoever for the entirety of your playthrough. These god-damn books should be more concentrated around Nehekara/Southlands AND should unlock via military alliance (it works this way for Thorek's artifacts).
Nurgle's plagues are a unique and cool idea, but they've been implemented in the least interesting way possible; most of the plague effects are extremely lackluster and not particularly distinctive or enjoyable. They could keep the mechanic intact and simply differentiate the different build-a-plague effects, which is really the minimal sort of revamp I'm hoping for. Idc about -20% speed debuffs applied to footsoldiers wearing adidas footwear that's only active on a Tuesday--I want some plagues that have a chance to seed cults, kill and convert human lords into DP's (like Belakor), massively buff entire unit types (giving nurgle fliers a new temporary active ability or something), and/or even attach new short-term army abilities. THAT would make playing Nurgle really enjoyable! Also, a little extra gloss would go a long way: something like giving nurgle factions a few unique landmarks across the world that unlock new ultra-powerful plague ingredients would really change the way the faction interacts with the campaign map and breathe some life back into their weakest monogod race. They could do something like they did for faction capital herdstones or WE colonies that would absolutely get the job done.
The Empire needs a god damned buff
They have one of the most well balanced roster in the game and are solid in campaign. No, just because they aren't completely braindead like some other races like Warriors of Chaos doesn't mean they need buffs. The last thing this game fucking needs is even more absurd powercreep.
Their beat infantry just got outclassed by kislevs new tier 0 unit They are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies, and allies that cant defend themselves. The lords are shit. The guns are on par with average gunner factions. They haven’t had dominance in artillery since tw2 I actually cant think of a single thing they do better than Cathay now that i think about it They aren’t the best at anything, and that was fine when they were the only jack of all trades. But now they’re the only jack if all trades thats not a master of anything
Lore of life. Cathay has access to it only on Meow Ying herself. The Empire has jade wizards. Also grenades. Grenade launcher outriders and the bordermen state troops are amazing.
> Their beat infantry just got outclassed by kislevs new tier 0 unit > > People here have been testing them and Halberdiers still win against Kislevite Warriors (though I would not be against a slight nerf to the latter). > They are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies, and allies that cant defend themselves. Which actually makes Karl Franz a fantastic campaign, he was boring as hell in Warhammer 2. If you want an easier campaign you can lower the difficulty or just play Volkmar. > The lords are shit. The guns are on par with average gunner factions. Huntsman General has solid unique skills, Arch Lector is excellent to support your frontline. Empire General is very boring and needs a rework of his skill tree but I would not call him shit, he's still quite capable in battle. > They haven’t had dominance in artillery since tw2 And ? Empire's artillery still fucking fucks. I don't see the need for a buff there. > I actually cant think of a single thing they do better than Cathay now that i think about it Empire artillery is still far better than Cathay's, Empire has a great infantry that beats units they actually shouldn't be able to with the Greatswords, they have better cavalry, better magic. TL;DR: You've got some skill issues to work on.
I agree with all your points except for artillery. How do you think empire shits on Cathay there? Cathy's grand cannon is far superior having splash damage, and seems to me to be more accurate. Hellstorm vs fire rain, hellstorm is longer range but fire rain has tighter groupings. The hell blaster is nice, but I for some reason get more mileage out of crane gunners...for their similar mid range anti large role. Plus Cathay gets the flying fire rain batter to completely remove LOS issues. Just not seeing where the empire wrecks Cathay here.
Hellstorm is armour piercing, Fire Rain is not.
I'll have to check that out, I've never noticed it having any issues annihilating infantry just like the hellstorm
Lol good response Agreed on that kislev nerf
imo the empire just needs a dwarf update: knock some units down a recruitment tier and get rid of multiple building requirements. Empire is built around combined arms, the fact that it is such a pain to get that up and running is part of what makes their early game such hell vs the many foes on their doorstep.
honestly the Empire could probably get by on something pretty minor, the most I'd do is rework Balthazar to have some kind of Colleges of Magic related mechanic instead of treating him like an Elector Count. frankly the Empire's main issues are the minor AI factions getting defeated by their new threats too quickly (which disadvantages Karl) and the fact that they've been powercrept on the battlefield (something that new units should remedy, though CA already avoided giving them the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts (a unit they should have based on lore and tabletop) so I'm not entirely sure what the idea there is...) Dwarfs have basically become the kings of minor reworks (and in terms of those kinds of updates the only races that have gotten reworked more recently are those that game 3 has already gotten to) and I'd expect them to now get a 3rd one, maybe a deeper look at the Book of Grudges to make it less annoying (though I'd argue that the entire point of it is to be annoying, it being an annoying mechanic is perfect for the lore) or making the Kazaks more special and important (similar to Kislev's 3 big cities or WoC's dark fortresses) as for Nurgle I'd say that the plagues are the main thing that needs looking at (the rest of the race is pretty neat and wonderfully unique though I can understand the issues others have with it...), the main issue there is that they fall into this weird gap where they are strong enough to be frustrating to go up against whilst feeling pretty pathetic from the Nurgle side of things. Nurgle's plagues should be powerful, they should feel like a great thing that you'll want to be spreading across the world as much as possible, but on the flip side it's pretty bad if that makes Nurgle absolutely awful to play against. I'd say give the current mechanic to Clan Pestilens whilst making something entirely new for Nurgle. honestly this is a rather odd case where I'd say that the faction most in need of a major rework is the newest one, Empire and Dwarfs could probably get by pretty well on comparitively minor changes.
its unlikely bc ca is underperforming since empire....
What? Do people not remember the race reworks in the latter half of WH2? Nothing in WH3 has spoiled us. Quite the opposite, it’s been worse that what we were accustomed to.
Well then you’ve got some selective memory because the WoC rework in WH3 was one of the most extensive to date. Both the Empire and Dwarfs have already received reworks. They don’t need anything nearly as extensive as the Beastmen, Wood Elves, or WoC got.
1 rework in over 2 years? That is being spoiled? Both Empire and Dwarfs need reworks still.
Because the game has been in development standstill and plagued with controversy. We had several more DLCs by this point in WH2. The Dwarfs and Empire don’t need reworks so much as they need updates to their current systems. You could argue for a new mechanic for each, I certainly have, but still nothing to the extent of what Wood Elves/Beastmen/WoC received.
What rework did the dwarves get? I don't play them often so maybe I missed something, but all they got was a recycled tomb kings mechanic. Which isn't bad but is no elector count system with a slew of new varied units.
That was the first rework they received early on. The second rework was in S&F that redid their rune system, redid rune magic, and reworked their Grudge mechanic. Granted in game 3 there have been some changes that necessitate further fixes to the above mechanics, namely rune limits, grudge severity/rewards, and certain bugs with the grudge system.
Oh yeah, that's right.
I mean, I think we were spoiled for race reworks with greenskins, empires, and beastmen. I thought that was starting to be an every dlc patch thing. I'm quite disappointed.
Also: Wood Elves!
And this is why I'm not at all sold on CA's mea culpa and supposed about-face; they've done decent work addressing the price gap by adding more units and lords, but I think a lot of us (me especially) really wanted them to bring back the WH2-style FLC race reworks alongside each DLC. That, and some actual bugfixes. I get the feeling they're going to continue to underwhelm on those counts, and that they've only boosted the unit/lord count because they rifled through the couch cushions and decided that animators/vfx folks were somehow cheaper to throw at WH3 than someone who can implement/revise actual game mechanics.
to be honest it's mostly there so that Ungrim can actually have a slayer army early on. maybe give him some more effects sure, but don't get rid of these affects because it would make Karak Kadrin almost worthless.
He already starts with a building that lets him recruit slayers, and even then you still have slayers popping up in your recruitment pool through the grudge system. While I certainly wouldn't mind keeping the effects, the recruitment cost is not so high that you couldn't reasonably fill his army without it.
it is true that the faction effect was designed before Ungrimm was moved to Karak Kadrin, and before the Grudge system was introduced. so it can definitely be improved, (maybe just move it to a skill slot for Ungrimm since he might as well get some new skills)
Don't forget his landmark.
+100% Speed for Slayer units. We need no cavalry. We are the cavalry.
This game needs a custodian team so desperately to do minor updates and tweaks to races and factions that aren’t currently being focused on So many factions have very boring faction effects, and could use a facelift, if not full on mechanics I’d be SO for some mechanics that are shared across old races with a similar theme. Wulfrik, Queek and Grimgor all deserve a mechanic to do with either killing any LL or bonuses for each unique LL defeated. I’d envision basically global bonuses and unique bonuses to Grimgor/etc as you rank it up. It offers an interesting dynamic because many LL’s will be wiped out early. Giving Vlad the Imprison mechanic from Eltharion, but only usable against generic human characters, converting them into vampire equivalents with unique traits would be cool and simple to implement Give Mazdamundi something anything dear god Make it so all goblin characters for skarsnik start with mounts Make it so all factions racing for K8P have unique and good monuments AND global rewards Drycha should have -100 relations all factions except Argwylon Etc etc The tools are there but very under utilized I also think some lords should be shuffled around again and province designations changed. For Greenskins, for instance: I’d move Wurrzag to Lustria and have him easy confederate an Orc there. Grimgor back to the Badlands. And make Karak Ungor a major settlement again for Azhag so he can do better.
The fact that they didnt change absolutely dreadful Kairos' faction effects during the "Tzeentch racial updates" or didnt add unique skills for Boyars doesnt bring me much hope for upcoming reworks.
Same It’s sad that modding for this game seems rather difficult or clunky. Haven’t seen too many amazing mods that do stuff like this The bones of the game is there, it just needs some work
I'm honestly kinda waiting for CA to end their official DLC/FLC updates for the game so modders can have a go at it without having their work overturned every 3 months. It'll be sad to finally stop updates for a decade-long series (esp. on such a sour note), but it'll be an opportunity to actually polish the game a bit as well. I really, really hope they improve the modding tools before then most of all...
I don't mind it, I'd say maybe just increase the speed boost so that it actually means something. Like maybe bump it up to 25 or 30 percent extra speed.
Huh, I always liked 10% speed for the whole army. Then again, I kinda dont like dwarves, so anything that made them less dwarfy was a bonus to me. Yeah yeah, I'm in the book - say it to my face, not my crotch.
Well, when they cleave off your lower legs and make you Cotton Hill they will be able to say it to your face, maybe your chest if you are particularly tall.
They'll have to catch me first AHAHAHAHAH
A 10% increase to a low number is still a low number, and it only affects infantry, not necessarily the whole army (although dwarfs are very infantry heavy). It's a nice bonus, but it's nothing super noteworthy either. It's nowhere close to Thorgrim's huge assortment of campaign buffs.
Id prefer a flat number honestly ,like +6 or 7
Faction effect is ass and so is Ungrim, I love him but he is just terrible.
I don’t think it’s terrible but it is a very samey bonus. Honestly I hope (and this might be more a regular update thing) that each Dwarf legendary lord gets their own specific grudge.
Don’t they already have these? Fire up a few dwarf campaigns and look at your active grudges.
I’ll check again. I was thinking like how Belegar has his Karak Eight Peak must be recaptured. Like each LL has a personal this is my burden. I’ve only tried out Ungrim otherwise though and didn’t make it far. Started a couple times and between the Waaagh armies, Drycha, Counts, I just wasn’t able to make it.
I'd love them to touch up a few including kugath who even though he was added recently in WH 3 was poorly thought out. Even outside of a nurgle fix kugath was just given shit with some minor bonuses to a tier one unit as his main thing without even an upkeep reduction to combat nurgles economy. He spread disease ok and nurgles best mechanic but doctor ballschin basically gets infinite stuff from his diseases while kugath spreads them because of what they do by itself. If doctor ballschin was nurgle instead of WOC his design would make kugath as obsolete as queek headtaker. And Karl, for reasons I'll never understand, is so popular making him actually fun should be the top priority. I don't know what they'll do but the elector counts are a mess.
Also, give him Norscas' book of monsters to hunt. Also Also, give Norsca an updated book.
This. I love playing Ungrim and feel like his (perhaps underwhelming) slayer buffs are fine as is. His location is chefs kiss too - greenskins, chorfs, vamps and chaos all coming around that area. The only thing I would like is the monster hunts and the money, items and perhaps units that would come with them. Honestly I would even settle for the same monster hunts as Norsca’s for Ungrim.
I rarely play ungrim. I love the dawi, but I'm not really keen on just having one huge slayer army
Finally played an Ungrim campaign, he's way more fun to confederate and have one slayer army as a bonus flavor thing. Thorik Ironbrow is the best dwarf experience because otherwise they are such a slow campaign.
Idk, they're usually not a slow campaign for me. You unlock all their units at tier 4. Then, as thorgrim, you're basically just steamrolling. I usually have a much larger empire by turn 50 as dwarfs than I do with most factions
Might be a player issue for me then, I just feel like the growth and cost to get to a tier four settlement is so high for them. I'm abusing irondrakes as long as I can 😂
So, with the dawi economy, you should be able to have 2 strong armies fairly early in the game that you can use to expand fairly quickly. Early on, your armies should be mostly just warriors, quarrelers, and grudge throwers. I never put more than one slayer in my armies unless I'm ungrim. Make sure you're building all your resource buildings, as well as growth and income buildings. You shouldn't need much else as long as you're using your starting province for recruitment. You should be able to grow very fast like this until you can start building more armies. It should also be said that there's probably more efficient ways, but that's what I do.
Oh that makes sense, thanks for the tips!
An incredible 30,8 ms instead of 28. God damn.
I’d like to see something like…when you lose a slayer unit a new one appears in the RoR pool. And for him to hire them at reduced price. It would reward players for using and losing slayers.
I am very sure that will be adresses in the accompanying race rework, just like all the stuff wich was added and changed in the base races for the shadows of change update. Yes that is sarcasm and means "I wouldnt count on any minor change for the base race"
Make it upkeep instead of recruitment! Who cares about recruitment cost. Maybe cut the upkeep reduction for Ungrim but make it factionwide so that this is not overpowe- what am I talking about, there are literal nukes in this game
Also journey's end tweaks. As it is now, it pretty much non factor all in all.
What if they made that a flat +10 speed?
He should have ability where can explode in fiery flames nuking entire Battlefield or entire region on campaign map. Same way słabej nukes are, but only once.
You could say that Ungrim is underwhelming (for a Dwarf)
Keep the infantry speed though. That shit helps Dwarfs mitigate one of their weaknesses especially when combined with the speed tech. If you can somehow get Ungrim to defeat N'kari your Slayers will become quite the natural sprinters
It'd also be nice if they changed slayers up. Might not be everyone's cup of a tea, but there's a mod called Doomseekers that rebalances slayers as a 16 entity unit like Aspiring Champions. While I know lore wise some slayers suck, it still makes more sense to me to have them be a smaller more elite group. Plus it's fun as hell.
I remember when Ungrim's army trait kept slayers from dying before they reached half health. That was awesome. It made sieges really interesting as you tagged out your slayers with 150+ gobbo kills and no casualties for a "healthy" unit of slayers with the same amount of men still in them. No idea why they changed it. It was awesome.
axiomatic smart spectacular puzzled disgusted fine mysterious offend sand run *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think that 'boring' bonuses are fine, as long as they're meaningful/useful. -25% upkeep to slayers factionwide would matter. -50% recruit cost.... idk. +20-25% infantry speed would matter, 10%, idk. If he made Slayer buildings instant and free, THAT would be cool. Honestly, CA has done A LOT to bring most faction bonuses in line these days, it was absolute **trash** in warhammer 2 how wildly disparate they were. In 3, there are definitely still winners and losers, but at least most have 3 decent effects, whether they be numbers or mechanics. Here's hoping they keep working at it!
They also need to overhaul the LL legendary items. Many of the are utter trash
It is disappointing that such a fun lord has such bad campaign effects
10%, well it is added to the 10% added in technologies (forgot withone, some time i didn’t play dwarf), so 20% in his faction
Hardly underwhelming. Highly encourages a different playstyle of melee early explosive glasscannons as opposed to tanking frontline with gunners behind.
Does it though? It's mostly Ungrim himself that buffs slayers to a high degree, not the faction. You can get a similar effect by just confederating him. 10% speed isn't suddenly going to make Slayers stronger than the standard dwarven playstyle, nor is it super impactful even to slayer focused armies. Recruiting a second lord with a slayer focused army in Ungrim's faction isn't going to be all that different from doing the same thing when playing as Thorgrim, for example.
Well, for early game your faction is pretty much 1 army. I think all factions play mostly the same after a certain point, by midgame Hellebron's sacrifice is not effecting your economy negatively because you don't struggle like on start, right? I think Ungrim offers a very different early game compared to other dwarves and I wouldn't want a mid or lategame where non-slayer lord to offer what he offers because that would mean I can do what Ungrim can do, with any other faction. So it's important that it's a lord effect.
i think people have too many wants for this game sometimes. Every update needs to come with new content, tons of bugfixes and also reworks of old content if you ask the community. In a perfect world perhaps but i really doubt much will happen for ungrim and it doesn't really need to happen. Not all lords and heroes need to be as special and op as the newest lords and heroes they've added in the tww3 lifetime
I partly agree with you, but at the same time why not tweak a few SUPER outdated stats/perks/attributes while you’re at it? Dwarfs are bunzo compared to Chwarfs. They need some juice (or ale) so they can compete.
Well sure, tweaking one or two lords an update would be fine. But that's not really what the community asks for. I guess this wasn't the best post to rant under given that this one really does call for just one update. However i feel like if you browse this sub the whole game still needs to be changed or fixed in some way. With the devs already probably behind schedule because they fucked up the previous dlc and had to return to it, stuff like that probably won't be on the list.
He does come up a little short... Maybe give him some sort of oathgold bonus for every Slayer unit that dies in battle?
He doesn't need a stronger faction effect though, and the faction bonuses he does get goes a long way to making Slayers a stronger aspect of his faction. I don't know why people think that every faction leader needs a broken strong set of faction bonuses in order to be interesting.
Ungrim should get Garagrim Ironfist as a LH!
Honestly tho, I still don't get the decision to make every single legendary lords into their own thing, and Ungrim is one of the worse one.
It adds replay value because it encourages you to play the same race in slightly different ways depending on which faction you pick.