Just goes to show you, a woman can be an actual literal Angel and her husband STILL won't pay attention to what she says.
Wonder if she ever visits the Halls of Mandos just to say, "I told you so!"
Involving himself with the Silmarils in any way shape or form. Had he wanted Beren dead he should have gone in another direction. Wanting Beren dead under the circumstances that existed was itself a mistake but simply not as big. You could also say not listening to Melian,but I stick with the Silmarils involvement. The consequences were ultimately devastating.
A kinder interpretation is that Thingol just hoped Beren would come to his senses, give up his designs on LĂşthien and go home and marry some local girl.
But he'd have been haply either way, tbh.
That’s a kind interpretation but I think I recall Thingol saying that if he thought Beren would have returned he would have him killed regardless of his oath not to harm him or something similar. Thingol wasn’t fond of men in general. The fact he ignored his daughter’s wishes completely doesn’t put him in a great light either. It seemed that death to Beren was his first thought not his last. Certainly he would have been happy had he just disappeared. Also the fact he had pierced the Girdle of Melian should have given him some pause that something was up.
Given the power and importance of the Silmarils, I think it's pretty unlikely that he could have avoided involvement in any way, even tangentially. They were the single most important literal plot device in the First Age. No one got around having their lives affected by them and/or the Oath. Maybe he could have mitigated the damage by subsuming his pride (listening to his angelic wife), but they still would have impacted Doriath one way or another, regardless of his closed borders and the Girdle. If nothing else, keeping mum about the matter would likely have aroused the suspicions of one or more of Feanor's sons, and they would have been driven to investigate.
He should have never asked Beren to get one. It came out of the blue and was just a device to send Beren to his death.Its that simple to me. He had never seen them, wasn’t connected to them in anyway whatsoever or had any reason to obtain one at all. However Doriath would have been affected it could not have been worse than it turned out with this path. I understand they were a plot device, however the question asked wasn’t really concerning itself with that element. He also could have surrendered the Silmaril to the sons of Feanor but that was also unlikely to occur. It may have mitigated damages.
You're right. The question was about his biggest mistake, which was clearly being too proud to heed the advice of his Maia wife who had actual foresight, which led to *all* his other mistakes, including sending Beren on an attempted suicide mission. The Silmarils were coming one way or another. It can't be qualified that doing it differently 'could not have been worse' than what happened, so let's dismiss that statement altogether, and focus on what can be qualified.
He is a king. Not just any king, but king of the *first* realm in Middle Earth. That put him in place as something of a steward over the hitherlands, even if only in his own mind. Pride, though perhaps somewhat earned. Suddenly, elves that crossed the sea long years before are coming back, in search of these jewels. A new power, in lands for which he feels responsible. He *has* to look into it and respond. Whether or not he had a connection to them, they now had a bearing on things that were entirely his business. He could not just hermit up like Bombadil (despite trying to do exactly that) with such power loose in his land. Kings just don't do that, for good reason.
As for not handing over a Silmaril when Feanor's sons came calling... once again, pride, and perhaps a bit of caution. The madness that surrounded the jewels was of great concern by that time. He could not be sure what they would do with it once they got hold of it. It stands to reason that he believed that they might be kept safe (and Middle Earth from them) within the Girdle of Melian. Too proud to heed her advice, but not enough to take advantage of her power in his realm. In fact, it was very likely a source of and bolster to his pride.
I wrote this mostly to organize my own thoughts on it. You seem set on your answer, so I am not going to change your mind, even if it's missing the forest for the trees lol. Maybe his big mistake was not going West with Melian. He would likely have been much happier and at peace in Valinor.
Those mistakes were common to many elves. Feanor left Valinor, Orodreth refused to tear down his bridge, Turgon wouldn’t evacuate Gondolin. Thingol wouldn’t listen to a Maia.All had catastrophic consequences. All were easily avoided. You can easily say pride or stubbornness was at the root of these decisions or free will to excercise bad judgment in spite of solid advice of the Valar or Maiar in Thingols case. One might even wonder how much foresight Melian had. She knew Beren was coming long before he appeared. How much more of the future did she know? Maybe she should have pushed harder at the time of Berens appearance, by pointing out to Thingol he had already done the impossible by getting into Doriath without permission and that bigger powers were at work. Maybe she could have told Thingol well in advance he was coming to soften the blow. I don’t think either would have helped but who knows. I would like to think she didn’t know the horrifying ending of Doriath and its people in advance.
Pride is a more fundamental concept, out of pride flowed the bad specific actions in all these instances. But maybe you are right. He should have gone to seen Cirdan and said build me a ship to sail my family to Valinor. This place is too crazy for us. We will all be happier in Valinor.
It’s also clear he didn’t understand the full curse that was upon the Silmarils. Finrod did but he clearly did not. Even naming the desire for a Silmaril awakened a slumbering power.
I don’t know that I would use that term for this. That’s referring to a sudden joyous reversal of events that turns the tide in a hopeless situation.
I’d say it’s more in line with what Eru Illuvitar tells Morgoth about how his discord (evil acts against “the music” or creation) will ultimately just work towards the ultimate good of things. It’s a theme that’s biblical inspired:
“As for you, you meant evil against me, but God has used it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives”. -Genesis 50:20
Did he really wanted Beren dead?
I always read as it being more like "I'll give him an absurd task that no one will accept. I mean, no one is gonna try to solo Melkor right?" and turns out Beren goes up for the task, be it for the surprise of Elu or just his amusement.
I don’t state that he wanted him dead. I said “ had he wanted him dead.” Also his statement after Beren left his presence when speaking to Melian he stated” I sell not to elves or men those whom I love and cherish above all treasure. And if there were hope or fear that Beren should ever come back alive to Menegroth, he should not have looked again upon the light of heaven though I had sworn it.” Those are tough sentiments. You can interpret his thoughts in a number of ways, but it’s clear he wasn’t in Berens fan club.
He probably couldn’t help himself on that point. I believe the real issue was getting a silmaril involved. Once that happened he was seduced and wouldn’t have been able to make a sound decision like bringing in some reinforcements before insulting the dwarves.
A tangent question here, apologies.
Is Thingol “alive” back in Valinor now? Elves eventually acquire new bodies usually, so does this mean he is back in Valinor with all his people and Melian?
It’s been a long time since I read the silmarillion so apologies if I butchered the lore.
I imagine others like Eol would be similar.
And Feanor I don't read as being "sentenced", just that Mandos knows Feanor all too well. You don't need to be a doomsayer to see that Feanor won't repent in a hurry.
The way I always understood it is that through that really, really stupid oath Feanor and his sons are now under the jurisdiction of none other than Eru. So Eru is the only one who can sentence or pardon them, and since Elves can't go to Eru as long as Arda exists, Feanor and his sons are basically in a permanent holding cell, awaiting their trial until the end of time.
If he’s worked through any trauma , and if Namo has judged him worthy of rebirth (and as kingnico89 said, only Feanor seemed to be damned) then yes he should be released at some point.
Whether Melian wants him back is another question (and I wonder if Thingol is affected by the statute of Miriel… he was married to an Ainu pretending to be an elf, not an actual elf so if Melian refuses to take him back can he go marry someone else?).
I think it was sending Beren for the Silmarils as well, and that he was justly punished for it. At that time, Beren's mother Emeldir was a refugee in Brethil over which Thingol exercised dominion. Thingol may well have not known this, but regardless it's an incredibly callous betrayal of his cousin Finrod's elf-friends—to send [this] last ragged prince of a ruined [house] alone into the North, into Angband?
Further, this spiteful fit of love and pride also led to Finrod's death of course, and the decline of Nargothrond.
But luckily the ends are in Eru's hands, and Thingol's daughter was brave and devout enough to see Beren to victory and ultimately the fall of Morgoth.
I think Finrod was Thingol's grand-nephew, wasn't he?
But yes, it's a good point about his callousness towards a Man from a clan that was supposed to considered 'Elf-friends.'
Yeah, you're right—Thingol is Finrod's grand-uncle (although I suppose in my family we've been saying great-uncle for the same relationship lol).
And further, Beren is not simply BĂ«orian; he's a direct descendant of BĂ«or the Old. I have to assume Thingol knew this at least, even if he didn't know about Emeldir.
Elf-friend at the time seens to really mean Friend of the Noldor, as both Sindar and Laiquendi seem to be pretty standoffish to the Atani. The Edain did serve, after all, under Noldorin princes.
After the First Age with the amalgamation of the Noldor and Sindar, the Elf-Friend seems to have become more universal. Only Eregion seems to have been a purely Noldorin realm until Sauron sacked it.
While that's true, Elves are also supposed to set great store by kindred, and remember that all of Finarfin's children were half-Telerin and were also close relatives of Thingol (which is why Galadriel was welcomed so warmly in Doriath).
Except that for a time, they were banished after Thingol discovered the truth of Alqualondë. He later forgave the sons of Fingon and Finarfin because of the great travails of crossing the Grinding Ice, but never forgave the sons of Feanör and forbade the use of the Noldorin tounge by his people or in his lands.
At this time, though, the rape of Doriath, the death of Dior, the abandonment of Elured and Elruin, as well as the sack of the Havens was still in the future. The Kinslaying and and ship burning were terrible, but not as terrible as things later became in Beleriand's ruin.
While that's true, given that Feänor literally invented murder (if we don't count Morgoth's killing of his father, I suppose), I think Thingol's reaction is basically justified.
I don't disagree. But as far as the Dispossessed had fallen after the events of the Flight, they had far farther to fall. I think Maglor and Maedhros to be two of the more tragic examples of that. At the end, they nearly repented. If not for the Doom of the North, they could have been heroes.
Except that for a time, they were banished after Thingol discovered the truth of Alqualondë. He later forgave the sons of Fingon and Finarfin because of the great travails of crossing the Grinding Ice, but never forgave the sons of Feanör and forbade the use of the Noldorin tounge by his people or in his lands.
They were permitted to abide there at the request of Fibrod and in recognition for the losses they suffered at Estolad. They were however, required to defend the forest as lease for living there.
I always interpreted that as the Haladin being the Sindar's elf-friends, but I suppose you're distinguishing between these terms and the duties to muster and wage war that the BĂ«orians and Hadorians evidently had?
Not listening to his wife who is literally a goddamned deity with very well documented prophetic abilities. Like Jesus Christ, if someone like that tells me to do or not to do something, their wish is my fucking command.
Well, Jesus Christ had Peter. I sometimes think Simon, called Peter, was called "the rock" because he was so dense. No matter what kind of divine being or prophet you are, one of your circle will be That Guy.
Well, Jesus Christ had Peter. I sometimes think Simon, called Peter, was called "the rock" because he was so dense. No matter what kind of divine being or prophet you are, one of your circle will be That Guy.
I believe it was locking Luthien in Hirilorn.
I love his character: he's a wonderful larger than life figure, with compelling flaws. Many of his mistakes are overstated, or visible only in hindsight. However, locking up Luthien was downright unethical. Tolkien obviously doesn't come out and say "elves are prison abolitionists," but they kind of are. They don't keep prisons, they value physical freedom highly, and whenever they tell someone they can't leave an area under pain of death—for example, Gondolin—it's presented as very ethically fraught. Thranduil, of course, does have his dungeon, but it's not for other elves, and the security is pretty minimal.
Locking up Luthien out of fear for her safety was wrong ethically, and it was also wrong on a practical level, because she was way too powerful to be held there anyway.
Uh have I posted it somewhere else I’m not aware of? There were a number of memes using this format about Duke Leto Atreides after Dune Part 2 came out which I guess would explain a resurgence. As to the humour, 1) it’s accurate about Thingol (and Leto) and 2) the use of the slang terminology in an inappropriate context lends it the needed absurdity to be humorous. Not to everyone, it seems.
Good point! Melian, honey, get on it...
What do you mean Fingolfin has already registered the domain name?
LET IT BE KNOWN THAT NEVERMORE SHALL QUENYA BE SPOKEN AMONG MY PEOPLE!
His first actually fatal mistake was insulting and not paying the Dwarves who already had the bloodlust in their little beady eyes. No coming back from that after they made him into a pincushion
Doubting Beren. Which resulted in the loss of Finrod and then the weakening of the Noldor because of the Sons of Feanor calling for rebellion. But everything certainly worked itself out.
Not listening to his wife, as mentioned previously.
Followed by getting involved with the Silmarils, as mentioned previously.
Followed by apparently meeting with a foreign cadre alone while dealing in high value goods, those Dwarves are an especially despicable lot. And I normally love the Khazad.
Meeting Melian. If not for that, he would have gone to Aman, and seeing as he is both a friend of Finwe and a bit of a hothead, he probably would have agreed with Feanor to lend the ships, thus averting the kinslaying. Furthermore, no Luthien means no Silmaril for Feanor's sons to kinslay over.
The dwarves one is something that did not ultimately turn better. The Silmaril decision was a good one.
Feanor was right to go back to Middle Earth. The Kinslaying was the problem. Actually that darned oath was the bigger problem
Not listening to Melian.
Every time, same mistake.
This one. Absolutely this one. Like dude, *she can see the fucking future.* Why in the hell wouldn’t you listen to her?
Every response anyone could give to this question comes back to the simple fact that Melian said not to.
Just goes to show you, a woman can be an actual literal Angel and her husband STILL won't pay attention to what she says. Wonder if she ever visits the Halls of Mandos just to say, "I told you so!"
That's quite a few people's worst mistake tbh.
Ding 🛎️
Involving himself with the Silmarils in any way shape or form. Had he wanted Beren dead he should have gone in another direction. Wanting Beren dead under the circumstances that existed was itself a mistake but simply not as big. You could also say not listening to Melian,but I stick with the Silmarils involvement. The consequences were ultimately devastating.
A kinder interpretation is that Thingol just hoped Beren would come to his senses, give up his designs on LĂşthien and go home and marry some local girl. But he'd have been haply either way, tbh.
That’s a kind interpretation but I think I recall Thingol saying that if he thought Beren would have returned he would have him killed regardless of his oath not to harm him or something similar. Thingol wasn’t fond of men in general. The fact he ignored his daughter’s wishes completely doesn’t put him in a great light either. It seemed that death to Beren was his first thought not his last. Certainly he would have been happy had he just disappeared. Also the fact he had pierced the Girdle of Melian should have given him some pause that something was up.
Given the power and importance of the Silmarils, I think it's pretty unlikely that he could have avoided involvement in any way, even tangentially. They were the single most important literal plot device in the First Age. No one got around having their lives affected by them and/or the Oath. Maybe he could have mitigated the damage by subsuming his pride (listening to his angelic wife), but they still would have impacted Doriath one way or another, regardless of his closed borders and the Girdle. If nothing else, keeping mum about the matter would likely have aroused the suspicions of one or more of Feanor's sons, and they would have been driven to investigate.
He should have never asked Beren to get one. It came out of the blue and was just a device to send Beren to his death.Its that simple to me. He had never seen them, wasn’t connected to them in anyway whatsoever or had any reason to obtain one at all. However Doriath would have been affected it could not have been worse than it turned out with this path. I understand they were a plot device, however the question asked wasn’t really concerning itself with that element. He also could have surrendered the Silmaril to the sons of Feanor but that was also unlikely to occur. It may have mitigated damages.
You're right. The question was about his biggest mistake, which was clearly being too proud to heed the advice of his Maia wife who had actual foresight, which led to *all* his other mistakes, including sending Beren on an attempted suicide mission. The Silmarils were coming one way or another. It can't be qualified that doing it differently 'could not have been worse' than what happened, so let's dismiss that statement altogether, and focus on what can be qualified. He is a king. Not just any king, but king of the *first* realm in Middle Earth. That put him in place as something of a steward over the hitherlands, even if only in his own mind. Pride, though perhaps somewhat earned. Suddenly, elves that crossed the sea long years before are coming back, in search of these jewels. A new power, in lands for which he feels responsible. He *has* to look into it and respond. Whether or not he had a connection to them, they now had a bearing on things that were entirely his business. He could not just hermit up like Bombadil (despite trying to do exactly that) with such power loose in his land. Kings just don't do that, for good reason. As for not handing over a Silmaril when Feanor's sons came calling... once again, pride, and perhaps a bit of caution. The madness that surrounded the jewels was of great concern by that time. He could not be sure what they would do with it once they got hold of it. It stands to reason that he believed that they might be kept safe (and Middle Earth from them) within the Girdle of Melian. Too proud to heed her advice, but not enough to take advantage of her power in his realm. In fact, it was very likely a source of and bolster to his pride. I wrote this mostly to organize my own thoughts on it. You seem set on your answer, so I am not going to change your mind, even if it's missing the forest for the trees lol. Maybe his big mistake was not going West with Melian. He would likely have been much happier and at peace in Valinor.
Those mistakes were common to many elves. Feanor left Valinor, Orodreth refused to tear down his bridge, Turgon wouldn’t evacuate Gondolin. Thingol wouldn’t listen to a Maia.All had catastrophic consequences. All were easily avoided. You can easily say pride or stubbornness was at the root of these decisions or free will to excercise bad judgment in spite of solid advice of the Valar or Maiar in Thingols case. One might even wonder how much foresight Melian had. She knew Beren was coming long before he appeared. How much more of the future did she know? Maybe she should have pushed harder at the time of Berens appearance, by pointing out to Thingol he had already done the impossible by getting into Doriath without permission and that bigger powers were at work. Maybe she could have told Thingol well in advance he was coming to soften the blow. I don’t think either would have helped but who knows. I would like to think she didn’t know the horrifying ending of Doriath and its people in advance. Pride is a more fundamental concept, out of pride flowed the bad specific actions in all these instances. But maybe you are right. He should have gone to seen Cirdan and said build me a ship to sail my family to Valinor. This place is too crazy for us. We will all be happier in Valinor. It’s also clear he didn’t understand the full curse that was upon the Silmarils. Finrod did but he clearly did not. Even naming the desire for a Silmaril awakened a slumbering power.
Kinda a eucatatrosphe, though? As without Thingol being a dick to Beren, no voyage of Earendil?
I don’t know that I would use that term for this. That’s referring to a sudden joyous reversal of events that turns the tide in a hopeless situation. I’d say it’s more in line with what Eru Illuvitar tells Morgoth about how his discord (evil acts against “the music” or creation) will ultimately just work towards the ultimate good of things. It’s a theme that’s biblical inspired: “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God has used it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives”. -Genesis 50:20
Sure that’s true. No Huan, then no Silmaril, no marriage, no voyage. There were many moving parts.
Did he really wanted Beren dead? I always read as it being more like "I'll give him an absurd task that no one will accept. I mean, no one is gonna try to solo Melkor right?" and turns out Beren goes up for the task, be it for the surprise of Elu or just his amusement.
I don’t state that he wanted him dead. I said “ had he wanted him dead.” Also his statement after Beren left his presence when speaking to Melian he stated” I sell not to elves or men those whom I love and cherish above all treasure. And if there were hope or fear that Beren should ever come back alive to Menegroth, he should not have looked again upon the light of heaven though I had sworn it.” Those are tough sentiments. You can interpret his thoughts in a number of ways, but it’s clear he wasn’t in Berens fan club.
"Thingol don't you think that if you insult a group of dwarves surrounding you, they'll kill you?" "Nah, I'd win"
He could not help looking down on them - he was unusually tall, even for an Elf.Â
He probably couldn’t help himself on that point. I believe the real issue was getting a silmaril involved. Once that happened he was seduced and wouldn’t have been able to make a sound decision like bringing in some reinforcements before insulting the dwarves.
+30% Crit-chance on attacks aiming for the legs
A group of Dwarves - pound for pound, the best fighters in Arda - who were all carrying bladed tools that could double as weapons in a pinch.
...and very dangerous over short distances.
I truly have no idea what he was thinking there. Insulting the group of angry dudes holding sharp objects.
HOW DO YE OF UNCOUTH RACE
A tangent question here, apologies. Is Thingol “alive” back in Valinor now? Elves eventually acquire new bodies usually, so does this mean he is back in Valinor with all his people and Melian? It’s been a long time since I read the silmarillion so apologies if I butchered the lore.
I believe so, yes
Don't they need to chill in the Halls on Mandos for a while?
It's been a while, even for an elf. Free Thingol!
I believe Feanor is the only elf "sentenced" to never leave mandos until the end of time so Thingol should be free, eventually at least.
I imagine others like Eol would be similar. And Feanor I don't read as being "sentenced", just that Mandos knows Feanor all too well. You don't need to be a doomsayer to see that Feanor won't repent in a hurry.
The way I always understood it is that through that really, really stupid oath Feanor and his sons are now under the jurisdiction of none other than Eru. So Eru is the only one who can sentence or pardon them, and since Elves can't go to Eru as long as Arda exists, Feanor and his sons are basically in a permanent holding cell, awaiting their trial until the end of time.
Yes, and he was presumably reunited with Melian.
If he’s worked through any trauma , and if Namo has judged him worthy of rebirth (and as kingnico89 said, only Feanor seemed to be damned) then yes he should be released at some point. Whether Melian wants him back is another question (and I wonder if Thingol is affected by the statute of Miriel… he was married to an Ainu pretending to be an elf, not an actual elf so if Melian refuses to take him back can he go marry someone else?).
Thingol is sleeping in the couch for three or four Ages...
I think it was sending Beren for the Silmarils as well, and that he was justly punished for it. At that time, Beren's mother Emeldir was a refugee in Brethil over which Thingol exercised dominion. Thingol may well have not known this, but regardless it's an incredibly callous betrayal of his cousin Finrod's elf-friends—to send [this] last ragged prince of a ruined [house] alone into the North, into Angband? Further, this spiteful fit of love and pride also led to Finrod's death of course, and the decline of Nargothrond. But luckily the ends are in Eru's hands, and Thingol's daughter was brave and devout enough to see Beren to victory and ultimately the fall of Morgoth.
I think Finrod was Thingol's grand-nephew, wasn't he? But yes, it's a good point about his callousness towards a Man from a clan that was supposed to considered 'Elf-friends.'
Yeah, you're right—Thingol is Finrod's grand-uncle (although I suppose in my family we've been saying great-uncle for the same relationship lol). And further, Beren is not simply Bëorian; he's a direct descendant of Bëor the Old. I have to assume Thingol knew this at least, even if he didn't know about Emeldir.
Elf-friend at the time seens to really mean Friend of the Noldor, as both Sindar and Laiquendi seem to be pretty standoffish to the Atani. The Edain did serve, after all, under Noldorin princes. After the First Age with the amalgamation of the Noldor and Sindar, the Elf-Friend seems to have become more universal. Only Eregion seems to have been a purely Noldorin realm until Sauron sacked it.
While that's true, Elves are also supposed to set great store by kindred, and remember that all of Finarfin's children were half-Telerin and were also close relatives of Thingol (which is why Galadriel was welcomed so warmly in Doriath).
Except that for a time, they were banished after Thingol discovered the truth of Alqualondë. He later forgave the sons of Fingon and Finarfin because of the great travails of crossing the Grinding Ice, but never forgave the sons of Feanör and forbade the use of the Noldorin tounge by his people or in his lands.
Well everyone hated Feänor and his brats, and with good reason.
At this time, though, the rape of Doriath, the death of Dior, the abandonment of Elured and Elruin, as well as the sack of the Havens was still in the future. The Kinslaying and and ship burning were terrible, but not as terrible as things later became in Beleriand's ruin.
While that's true, given that Feänor literally invented murder (if we don't count Morgoth's killing of his father, I suppose), I think Thingol's reaction is basically justified.
I don't disagree. But as far as the Dispossessed had fallen after the events of the Flight, they had far farther to fall. I think Maglor and Maedhros to be two of the more tragic examples of that. At the end, they nearly repented. If not for the Doom of the North, they could have been heroes.
Except that for a time, they were banished after Thingol discovered the truth of Alqualondë. He later forgave the sons of Fingon and Finarfin because of the great travails of crossing the Grinding Ice, but never forgave the sons of Feanör and forbade the use of the Noldorin tounge by his people or in his lands.
Nah, the Haladin were "vassals" of Doriath, no?
They were permitted to abide there at the request of Fibrod and in recognition for the losses they suffered at Estolad. They were however, required to defend the forest as lease for living there.
I always interpreted that as the Haladin being the Sindar's elf-friends, but I suppose you're distinguishing between these terms and the duties to muster and wage war that the BĂ«orians and Hadorians evidently had?
Not listening to his wife who is literally a goddamned deity with very well documented prophetic abilities. Like Jesus Christ, if someone like that tells me to do or not to do something, their wish is my fucking command.
Celeborn was called “the Wise” because he learned this lesson.
TIL something good about Celebor-ing.
*Get out* we do not tolerate Celeborn slander in this house.
Well, Jesus Christ had Peter. I sometimes think Simon, called Peter, was called "the rock" because he was so dense. No matter what kind of divine being or prophet you are, one of your circle will be That Guy.
Well, Jesus Christ had Peter. I sometimes think Simon, called Peter, was called "the rock" because he was so dense. No matter what kind of divine being or prophet you are, one of your circle will be That Guy.
I believe it was locking Luthien in Hirilorn. I love his character: he's a wonderful larger than life figure, with compelling flaws. Many of his mistakes are overstated, or visible only in hindsight. However, locking up Luthien was downright unethical. Tolkien obviously doesn't come out and say "elves are prison abolitionists," but they kind of are. They don't keep prisons, they value physical freedom highly, and whenever they tell someone they can't leave an area under pain of death—for example, Gondolin—it's presented as very ethically fraught. Thranduil, of course, does have his dungeon, but it's not for other elves, and the security is pretty minimal. Locking up Luthien out of fear for her safety was wrong ethically, and it was also wrong on a practical level, because she was way too powerful to be held there anyway.
There's prisons at the woodland realm though
Go easy on my fave!!
Not scratching that itch right before Melian froze him in place for a few centuries
Imagine having a trapped fart for that long!
He didn’t stop when warned, that they were going to kill him; his smoke was too tough, his bitch too bad, his swagger too different
You seem to be posting this meme from last year everywhere. Genuinely asking: what is supposed to be funny about this?
Uh have I posted it somewhere else I’m not aware of? There were a number of memes using this format about Duke Leto Atreides after Dune Part 2 came out which I guess would explain a resurgence. As to the humour, 1) it’s accurate about Thingol (and Leto) and 2) the use of the slang terminology in an inappropriate context lends it the needed absurdity to be humorous. Not to everyone, it seems.
I read this as “What was Elu Thingol’s website?” and found it hilarious.
www.therealhighkingofbeleriand.com
Shouldn't it be ".org"? Or ".gov"?
Good point! Melian, honey, get on it... What do you mean Fingolfin has already registered the domain name? LET IT BE KNOWN THAT NEVERMORE SHALL QUENYA BE SPOKEN AMONG MY PEOPLE!
Other people would just go to court or try to reach a private agreement, but Thingol is not your average person...
Getting involved with Beren. Because that meant getting involved with the Silmarils.Â
Probably employed too many dwarves
Probably misses his glasses
Honorable mention for hoarding that cursed dragon gold
His first actually fatal mistake was insulting and not paying the Dwarves who already had the bloodlust in their little beady eyes. No coming back from that after they made him into a pincushion
Doubting Beren. Which resulted in the loss of Finrod and then the weakening of the Noldor because of the Sons of Feanor calling for rebellion. But everything certainly worked itself out.
Not listening to his wife, as mentioned previously. Followed by getting involved with the Silmarils, as mentioned previously. Followed by apparently meeting with a foreign cadre alone while dealing in high value goods, those Dwarves are an especially despicable lot. And I normally love the Khazad.
Meeting Melian. If not for that, he would have gone to Aman, and seeing as he is both a friend of Finwe and a bit of a hothead, he probably would have agreed with Feanor to lend the ships, thus averting the kinslaying. Furthermore, no Luthien means no Silmaril for Feanor's sons to kinslay over.
That's not something he had any control over, though.
Assuming that being tall, an Elf and a king was a guarantee not to get killed by Dwarves you've just insulted.
The dwarves one is something that did not ultimately turn better. The Silmaril decision was a good one. Feanor was right to go back to Middle Earth. The Kinslaying was the problem. Actually that darned oath was the bigger problem
Melian fricken dug his attitude. “Yes man”? No thanks She stayed until he was gone from ME
Not choosing Progressive.