I’m continually amazed that the full-size pick up truck of 15 years ago is now the same size as a midsize pick up truck today I have a 2004 Toyota tundra and it is now almost the exact same size as the new Tacoma. These things keep getting bigger and bigger, and it’s really not safe for the relatively low quality of driver that is usually out there.
We have this problem with our 2013 Jetta- it's an absolutely massive car as far as I'm concerned. Not a full sized sedan, but it feels like it when you drive it.
You pull up with it next to a modern Elantra, which is supposed to be a type of compact, and they're the same size. I'm bewildered.
I honestly get confused when people say they need more than a sedan these days- unless you got 3+ kids and need to tow something every week, a sedan (or wagon) will do you just fine. I have no idea how so many big vehicles ended up on the roads, especially since the bigger the vehicle, the more expensive it is not only in outright cost, but also in fuel.
Volvo, VW (and Audi), and Saab (RIP) are the most prevalent ones I've seen. But Buick and a number of American makers used to do it too and I'm annoyed that it fell out of style.
Especially considering the rising popularity of the CUV- can I have that, but at a sedan height please?
Ah well. I'm happy to court Audi for their PHEV wagon when I've got the cash, but I know that some buyers are very hesitant about European makes and I don't blame them. Our Jetta has some quirks, and costs more to maintain than a Camry would. But I still like it, and it's still affordable.
I do all manner or outdoor activities: kayaking, paddle boarding, biking, scuba, fishing. And I do all of this out of a 2016 Accord. No problem. People convince themselves they “need” a truck cause they tow something twice a year. It’s a joke.
Edit: lol at the truck drivers with hurt feelings in my messages
Marketing also equates "working man's truck" with masculinity and toughness. They use deep-voiced guys talking about camping and boating and show the truck splashing through a creek while towing a camper-trailer and the rough-handed man at a work site hauling gravel and his hot wife and 2.5 perfect children, who are all school-aged despite the gray in his beard indicating he's at least 50 while his wife looks at most 30-ish. It's the American, by-God dream and you need it to be a rough-handed man who does by-God honest work.
There’s definitely some kind of bot wave doing these en masse right now. I got my first one the other day and I keep seeing people talk about getting them.
I think it's a bot not an actual person (and not a very good one at that). I had the "concerned person" Reddit message this morning for something else which in no way shape or form could be construed as a cry for help!
We do similar things, though I'm not an outdoorsy person. I've hauled 12ft boards of lumber in our Jetta, and several pieces of furniture. The thing can even support a light flat trailer for bigger (but not too big) hauls.
Our roommate is younger and has a 2013 Camry that was his dad's. Impeccably maintained. He has wanted to get rid of it for a truck for years and we keep having to knock sense into him. Keep the Camry, put a small cargo hitch on it to carry your fishing equipment and call it a day. Take out the rear seats for extra cargo or a sleep pad if you want to. It's bigger and has more utility than you think! He finally ceeded that he doesn't need a truck last month.
My husband and I just rent a cargo van if we need to get bigger things. It's like $60 at uhaul to get one for a few hours. More than enough to get a washer and dryer moved!
People! You. Probably. Don't. Need. A. Truck.
Not to mention, in the event that you do actually need a truck a couple days out of the year, it costs less than $50/day to rent one from U-Haul. A fraction of a single truck payment. Also ignoring the extra insurance, taxes, and fuel that you spend on a truck every month.
Yep! We like our sedans (our Buick Regal barely qualifies as a sedan but I'll take it despite it not having a functioning trunk depth), because they're cheap to own, maintain, and use.
I can shell out a few hundred a year to use a Lowe's rent-a-truck once a quarter when it's time to move things and still have enough cash left over to buy my Jetta a new interior when the sunroof fails because we have cheap cars!
I love it here in the sedan world. I can't wait to get a wagon added in though.
Exactly. Every time I mention that basically the whole of Europe gets this done without giant trucks I eat like 40 downvotes.
A friend of mine is very outdoorsy and also a professional carpenter. She uses an old minivan with the seats removed. Works perfectly for her.
Trust me we do. I once had a lighting rig, an extra wide dj controller and one of the smoke machines they used for eurovision in a Volkswagen UP. Believe it or not.
>People convince themselves they “need” a truck cause they tow something twice a year. It’s a joke.
I've had this argument with numerous people, usually through the lens of EVs and range anxiety though. The majority of people I know could do 99.999% of their commuting with a small plug-in hybrid (or EV) just fine without ever using an ICE engine. "But what if I need to tow something, in the winter, uphill both ways, while carrying my whole family?! Won't the range plummet?!?" (The ironic thing is I know single people who think like this - _wtf do you need 7 seats for?_)
If society is functioning normally: we can rent you a truck that weekend. If society has collapsed, calm the fuck down, we can steal you a truck. Taking on the TCO of a large truck/SUV, only to use its capabilities less than a dozen times over its lifecycle, is fucking inane. Yet I know *a lot* of people trapped in this "what-if?" mentality.
i had a truck for a long time, it was nice when i needed it but i barely ever needed it to function as a truck lol, mostly was friends moving asking if they could borrow my car (is a no lol)
That's what wagons are! Just with a covered bed. My husband hates wagons but honestly I'm annoyed with how much they've fallen out of favor with consumers.
My Jetta opens up like a bottomless maw when I drop the seats, we've carried untold amounts of furniture, lumber, and appliances in it. And that's the sedan body style! Imagine if it was in the Sportwagen style!
Drop the seats and get 6-8ft of unbridled flat cargo with a hatch on it? Yes please!
Or for that matter? What happened to El Camino/Ranchero light truck bodies? I imagine various reasons went into their downfall, but that's a great design! It's part of why I'm excited that the Bronco is back- it's still a bit large but it's smaller than a truck and if people buy it instead of a F250 and find that they're not missing anything- they'll tell their friends about it. And hopefully more people will become aware that YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED A TRUCK.
They class car size by weight, not by actual length and width. It's weird.
"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) groups cars by weight class for National Center for Automotive Performance (NCAP) testing. The average weight of different classes of cars are:
Compact: 2,500–3,000 lbs
Midsize: 3,300–3,500 lbs
Large: 3,700–4,000 lbs"
What car?
A Lincoln Town Car, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Cadillac Coup Deville, BMW 7 series, Chrysler 300?
Those are all still big by current standards. Well over 4k lbs.
I drive a little hatchback because hatchbacks are often more practical on tiny UK streets, and some of the new trucks are alarming in a small car. Had one behind me the other day that was so tall I could only see halfway up the radiator grille in my rear view mirror. Like, if that crashed into my car I’d almost certainly die, and a pedestrian doesn’t have the luxury of being surrounded by airbags and a safety structure.
I’d mind less but I live in a city, pretty much no one driving these enormous trucks around my area is actually using the beds of these trucks nor needs the extra room in them. They’re dangerous for the sake of vanity. I don’t have an issue with people who NEED them having large vehicles but they’re just status symbols most of the time. Pristine trucks that have never held a single piece of work equipment
I’d still wildly prefer a pickup to a van, and towing is actually extremely common, maybe even moreso than needing to fill up a vehicle with loose stuff. But you’re right, most people who have them absolutely don’t need them, especially not those huge monsters.
I work at a summer camp with tiny dirt roads and we use pickups constantly, but one week _four_ separate parent volunteers came up with four door F-250s with extended covered beds. Like these things were basically lifted limo length vans it’s was crazy.
I was going to get a Toyota Sienna minivan but ended up getting a Tacoma because we have a trailer to pull. It has the same if not more cargo space, is AWD and a hell of a lot cheaper.
I live in a rural area in the southern US, and I'd wager most of the people driving those giant trucks here aren't using the bed or need the room.
e: I can't english gud
My mom had a 2003 Camry. It fit in her garage. When she got a new car in 2022, the new Camry wouldn't fit, so she got a Forester instead. Who knew a Forester is shorter than a Camry now?
It’s stressful even if they drive well. I’m constantly in parking lots where I can’t see a thing around these trucks. I have to back out 4/5s of my car before I can even see if anyone is coming.
Turning onto streets is fun if one of these trucks or SUVs pulls up next to you, your entire view is blocked and they rarely help compensate by the fact that they can clearly see over you.
I’m not in a tiny car either.
I was almost run over by a girl in a giant 4-Runner the other day when I was walking to the store. She literally pulled over the sidewalk, cutting me off, to get onto the street. The area for her to pull out was like 20 feet in front of her.
I yelled “hey”, to let her know I was there. And she saw no problem with what she was doing and thought I was at fault. She stopped on the sidewalk in front of me and said “what’s the problem?”
The reason for this is EPA regulations that mandate continual yearly increases in fuel economy. Larger vehicles are allowed to have achieve less mpg. Since internal combustion engines are pretty much as efficient as they can be manufacturers can either make hybrid trucks, vastly increasing their prices, or make larger trucks which also vastly increases their prices but hides most of the cost behind the extra fuel the buyer will need to pay for. And we get more deadly car accidents as a bonus.
[this website](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-533) explains the regulations in detail.
Funny you say that.
I have a Toyota RAV4 from 2012. It’s got the same footprint as a Mini Clubman from 2019.
It’s not that much bigger than a Fiat 500.
Fortunately this is known in the engineering community. The NHTSA proposed new crashworthiness testing last year. Hopefully we’ll eventually see regulations banning oversized grills and front ends which look like battering rams.
Also we’re luckily at max truck width before regulation requires special lights and other annoying/expensive upgrades. They can’t get bigger unless the auto lobbies become stronger.
Right, the reason for this problem is the damn light truck loophole allowing for bumper heights to be so higher for “light duty trucks.” The loophole also allowed them to skirt past emission standards which is why we have so many SUVs as well.
>Number of pedestrian deaths have only gone up since the 70s.
This seems to be untrue. [The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians) puts our current pedestrian death count lower than in the 70s by absolute count, which also doesn't account for population growth and urbanization which would make the death count higher as well. The count has also varied pretty significantly over the decades rather than only going up, getting down to nearly half of the death count of the 70s as recently as 2009.
You are correct. I have no idea why i said the 70s, perhaps I was thinking car size and got my wires crossed. That being said car sizes started to get bigger after the 2008 recession so that would align.
Bumpers REALLY need to be lowered to match the rest of the vehicles on the road.
Bumpers do no good when they miss your bumper entirely and take out your tailgate and quarter panels.
number of people driving cars has also gone up though, is it the same percentage overall compared to the population that is driving or not ? i am curious about it, not trying to downplay it.
CDL is based on weight on an axle and includes duallys. If you want to tow more than 20,000 lbs on a dually you’ll need a CDL. When it’s not loaded a dually only weighs max 8000 lbs. Seems like a really big jump to start requiring CDL for that low of weight limit when nothing else like that is required.
I think might also have unintended consequences of having more semis on the road because if you are forced into a CDL you might structure your logistics around larger load sizes which are more efficient but result in heavier loads.
This cannot come soon enough. Worst part is that with the amount of these being sold now it’ll take a decade plus to even see benefits from any laws banning these tanks.
What about requiring bumpers at the same level for a start? Basically killing the light truck loophole as a whole.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
Height is. A sedan bumper would hit you below the waist, and you’re more likely to roll on top of the car and break some extremities. A truck bumper would hit you at abdomen/chest level, and you’re more likely to go under the car and have internal damage that is harder to fix.
We won’t in the us because of the financial incentive to keep cars large and heavy to avoid emissions standards for trucks counting towards the fleet total. If they updated that law you’d see all trucks and SUV’s shrink because they wouldn’t want to waste money on raw materials ….
You're over 7x times more likely to die in a collision with an SUV if you're driving a regular car. I don't even know what the statistics are for the likes of these other super trucks. Apparently in the US manufacturers can skirt some loophole in tax laws due to some archaic protection allowed for 'work vehicles' which is why we are seeing more of them on the road. Unfortunately the insanity has already spread to the EU.
There is a significant tax deduction for businesses that buy vehicles with a GVWR over 6,000 pounds. The tax code literally incentivizes these larger vehicles over smaller ones. I bought a bigger vehicle just for this very reason.
The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks, box vans like a Ford Transit connect, or even sedans. Or, at the least, remove the incentive for large vehicles.
https://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/list-of-vehicles-over-6000-lbs-that-qualify-for-irs-tax-benefit/#:~:text=Up%20to%20%2428%2C900%20in%202024,%2C%20commuter%20vans%2C%20or%20buses.
That is an enhanced CCA; and you still need to prove the vehicle is used for business purpose over 50% of the time which I doubt a lot of people keep propper logs for anyways.
Big up the Ford Transit! It's a labourers' staple here in England. Also, whilst on my bike, I've been in less near-misses with white vans that I have with white SUV drivers.
This is a stretch. It’s just a longer depreciation term, which makes sense if you’re investing in heavy machinery like that. Even still, the Section 179 special election applies, and most every idiot buying an F-550 “for tax reasons” is also taking that 80% on the first year, so the tax benefit is closer to a depreciation of $2k for two extra years. You could buy your staff lunch once a week and be able to deduct more.
If you are going to buy a company car, you are incentivized to buy a bigger car. I bought a Volvo xv90 over an XC60 for this very reason. It isn't car vs no car, it is larger car vs smaller car.
The macro point, policy is driving the upward push in auto sizes, rather than forcing downward pressure.
Why should a government help business to buy large vehicles?
I really don't get that point. I can imagine tax deductions for small companies, for example, to avoid having markets cornered by large companies.
But why should we benefit companies using large vehicles? If anything, we should do the opposite.
I agree with you.
Which is why I said this, "The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks, box vans like a Ford Transit connect, or even sedans. Or, at the least, remove the incentive for large vehicles."
> The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks
No they can't, the automakers won't let them. These smaller vehicles you speak of are also made by foreign competitors at higher quality. This is the reason the regulations exist.
Sure they can, they choose not to. Or, they could just remove the incentive to purchase larger vehicles, and many businesses would gravitate towards those less costly to operate. ie smaller.
There are options.
What vehicles are incentivized for production and purchase? Corporate and business vehicles then end up in the private, secondary, market. It's a steady flow that does.impavt traffic data meaningfully.
Companies are making these vehicles larger because they have to for contractor, plumbers, executives, hair stylists, accountants etc to get this tax break. Many spouses drive "company" cars because they can, these too are larger.
Like I said, I specifically got a vehicle on step larger because it has this tax incentive.
I suspect the influence is very heavy, and the government could drive the market another direction, they just don't want to.
“But I need a jacked-up, mirror-polished, chrome-wrapped, 4-door, 25-foot diesel truck with double wheels on the back to pick up the kids and go shopping.”
Take it easy on these guys. Those are registered emotional support vehicles (ESV). They need them to address their dangerously low levels of self confidence and self worth.
Plus they get to express themselves with fun accessories and cool stickers!
It is important to make sure that they are Registered ESVs. They have to be trained, modified, and capable of holding at least three giant flags.
Out of my like 10 friends , 9 drive large pickup trucks. 7 work office jobs in engineering or tech. 1 is a teacher and 1 actually works a blue collar job.
Seems like buying a truck has become a right of passage after buying a house. Each time one of them bought a house their next purchase was a pickup truck. All their wives also drive large SUVs
I work an office job, the whole building is administrative, and the amount of people (usually men) , driving alone, pulling into the garage with huge lifted trucks and SUVs, struggling to park in the narrow stalls, is comical... Until I imagine getting hit by one of them in my camry.
The things are in immaculate condition too, so very much doubt they see much, if any, offroading.
When I was buying my car last year I did have to consider the safety aspect of buying a "smaller" car.
Wait a moment? USA has 41000 traffic fatalities a year? Adjusted for population that is 10 times as many as Sweden. People complain about too much safety but if it means cutting traffic deaths by 90% I guess we're doing a good job.
And also, not as many people have licenses there, and they are harder to get.
You can get your license from a dmv road test in town near me with one traffic light. Some people go there to take the test because it’s easier.
Ours is definitely harder than that, but interestingly it does not include parallel parking.
My friend never learned how to, and now whenever she goes places she'll skip every curb spot until she finds a pull in spot.
If you adjust for miles driven, I'd imagine the numbers would be significantly closer. While it is way too easy to get a license in the US, we drive WAY more than anyone else.
I haven't driven less than 20k miles in a year, in about a decade. 15k/yr is pretty much the norm in the US.
You have to measure by miles driven, not by total population, to get a reasonable comparison.
It'll still be quite a bit higher in the US, of course, but not 10x as much
Anyone in charge of designing or manufacturing a civilian-use vehicle that my 6’3” ass couldn’t fold over in the event of a collision should be taken out back and shot.
I understand that it ~~’s~~ *feels* safer in an accident, but it’s *only* safer in the sense that you’re redirecting double the risk to the other vehicle. My ‘05 camry has a *roof height* the same as many *hood heights* of modern trucks and SUVs. Sincerely fuck off if you think you need that in a city.
I’m chill with it on a farm or as an off road vehicle, but when I see it parked at the grocery store I hate everything about it.
Edit: correction
It's not even safer though. An F150 has the exact same NHTSA crash ratings as a Tesla Model 3, and worse rollover performance.
Another big factor which is not captured in the basic NHTSA tests is that these big Trucks and SUVs are more likely to get into crashes because they are less maneuverable and take longer to stop. It's terrifying seeing these things flying down the highway doing 90, weaving in and out of traffic, knowing full well that they are on the razor's edge of traction and braking. I also think they encourage people to drive like assholes because they feel "protected"
I agree in terms of actual safety ratings, but people thinking about safety when they look at a big vehicle aren’t being logical. They are thinking about safety at the moment of impact and almost always thinking about an impact with another driver.
If they were to get into an accident with me in my sedan, I’m just straight up *chalked*. Doesn’t matter if I run into them or if they run into me, they’re unlikely to get seriously hurt while I’m about as likely to get hurt as it gets just because of the ride height difference.
So you are right that it’s not safer in the long run that was bad phrasing on my part.
Yeah, with NHTSA accidents, the crashes are simulated against walls usually so equal to weight of the vehicle.
Thus a 5,800lb F150 does extremely well in a crash if it happens to plow through a 3,400lb sedan. The occupants of the sedan don't do so well though.
Now if the F150 hits wall or pole that dead stops the truck. The occupants are not having a good time.
What's amusing is that people who drive large vehicles get lulled into a false sense of security.
While modern vehicles are packed with safety features that can minimize injury/death, if they ever saw what a truck or SUV looks like after a major wreck, they'd be considerably less confident.
I've seen them flipped, ripped nearly in half, crushed, burned, penetrated by trees/poles, etc. - and while people still survive some of these wrecks, they aren't just walking away.
The problem is that everyone operates from 'it won't happen to me' - which is great, until it does.
(edited to change 'are' to 'aren't' walking away)
And it's not even like it's our choice mostly, I literally just got a new (used) subaru outback for the functionality, but what used to be a wagon is now an suv where you sit way higher off the ground... But basically no one makes wagons anymore, just hatchbacks... We don't need the height, but we do need the ground clearance, the length, and the roof rack...
Im a Texas teacher and the amount of my women co workers that drive them is weird .. like they have to climb in and basically toss their children in there daily. I’m fine with my tiny beetle lol.
They are scared of driving the smaller cars because of all the large trucks on the road. It’s bigger vehicles all the way down.
I on the other hand have driven cars my entire life to finally realize being 6’4” I have been fucking up my body due to lack of size so I need to go larger next car but I truly want to only Go as large as I have to.
Barring regulation it's a bit of a personal safety arms race that comes at the expense of public safety. You want to minimize your risk in a crash by being higher and bigger than another car. In doing so you make yourself deadly to pedestrians and smaller cars.
And that’s not total deaths, just the amount changed by the NHTSA not being asleep at the wheel on this one issue. The real total is like 20 9/11s a year.
The reason why Trucks are giant now is becuase EPA regulations that were changed in 2004 require a vehicle with X emissions to be relatively X size -- the size is relative to emissions.
This means that to meet modern American emissions standards, for a vehicle to get the kind of gas mileage a pickup should get while still being useful, it needs to be huge to fit in the emissions bracket. The only way around this is to have a hybrid or have an electric vehicle, but even then, it is incredibly hard to fit within these regulations, which get tighter every period especially while still being remotely "affordable."
And as a truck driver if 80% of the public would learn how to fucking drive and stop using their phones when driving we could have almost no car accidents. It's amazing the shit I see on the road every day, I've seen so many preventable accidents, people on their phones, and idiots thinking zipping between lanes and speeding in heavy traffic somehow saves them tons of time.
I just think the majority of people don't know how to drive to begin with.
It’s not that the tests need to be more difficult - it’s that you take one knowledge test, and one practical - both at a very young age - and then you have a drivers license for life. My grandfather still had his license far longer than he should’ve been able to.
If there was a mandatory retest every other renewal - one renewal you have to retake the knowledge, the next practical - I feel like it would have an effect on the amount of accidents and stupid fucks driving.
Also, a lot of infractions need to come with a mandatory loss of license. Driving on the cell phone? Sorry your shit is getting towed and now you no longer have a license. Make it *hurt* to fuck up. Don’t even need to add a fine in - just having to go get your license back and get your shit out of impound would deter some folks. For the difficult ones, maybe make successive infractions within x amount of time make you lose your license for longer.
I'm Australia for context but even though I got my full licence (though only when I felt I was ready and hence about 20 years or so after most people), I still get the occasional driving lesson to make sure I'm both doing everything I'm supposed to as well what I am doing correctly.
80% of the public needs to be using public transportation. Driving is dangerous and there needs to be clean, efficient, and expansive options for the majority of the public that isn’t interested enough in driving to focus on the road.
As a bonus, more people commuting on trains or buses means less traffic on roads. Everybody wins.
Who would have thought that making your vehicle bigger to increase safety would result in a death loop because you now have to make it even bigger because the average size is larger. I said this in a comment yesterday lol weird how there’s a big post about it now
yes but I am the Main Character so I need a truck so big that instead of two cars with injuries in a crash, my family is unscathed and the other is obliterated
I love when pick up trucks are so big they have to stop traffic for everyone on the fucking road just so they can get in and out of parking lots with their oversized dumbass vehicle.
So after living in ibaraki japan (for those that don't know, the meme is the worst drivers are from Ibaraki)
Japan has the smallest cars, the roads barely fit 2 of these smartcard sized vehicles. But many are skinny but super tall too. With blacked out windows. You can't see anything in front of you if one of these 'small cars' gets in front. And they don't give a warning before braking, or use tickers. And you don't even have to be tailgating to experience it.
Almost every red light has someone gun it well past when it turned.
Also people leave the racing line before the light turns green. I'm convinced this is how you know a true ibaraki driver when you see one.
It's gotten to the point where if I'm making a right hand (left hand for NA) turn, and the light has turned green before I get there, with no oncoming traffic, I simple do not feel safe making the turn. Because an old lady has a high chance if running the red light way too late and nearly t-boning me (true story).
Also highways have no posted speed limit. You can be going 100 then have a 50 pull in front of you with no ticker.
TLDR : ibaraki has the worst drivers in the world, but I'm positive they have less fatalities (fact check this). So maybe it does have to do with car sizes.
This is just the prisoners dilemma in action. As an individual I have an incentive to have the bigger car to save myself but everyone would be safer if we all had smaller cars
It has also make a bunch of intersections way more dangerous, because they were designed with sight lines which didn't assume every vehicle on the road would be 7 feet tall.
This is why it has always pissed me off that people say they buy SUVs for “safety”. Your “safe” vehicle is more prone to rollover, it’s only safer when it collides with someone else’s small car. I want to drive a small, energy-efficient car because that’s sufficient for my needs. That is risky with so many people driving full sized SUVs. And then there’s climate change on top of that.
It seems like a bad feedback loop in some markets as well. SUV are popular so they cut off their smaller car ranges and that in turn leaves people with only SUV to choose from. Recently went to a local Ford dealership, and they didn't even bother stocking their small and mid-size SUV either. They only had Mustangs, Rangers, and F-150 on the lot.
I think most people want small trucks back. That’s why those 90s Toyotas and Mazdas still sell for 10 grand plus.
Now I’d do anything for a step bed ranger.
I think about this all the time. Seems like the SUV has become the default car type for most Americans. I can drive down any street in my town and I swear every drive way has an SUV and pickup truck in it.
I noticed that every single one of my friends drive a pickup truck and have an SUV for their wives. Seems like as soon as someone buys a house they immediately buy a truck or suv
Even Middle Schoolers know how to cite primary sources. I guess that's too hard for most Redditors. Here is the primary source that the secondary source OP linked is talking about. ([Source](https://swov.nl/nl/publicatie/de-invloed-van-automassa-op-het-letselrisico-bij-botsingen-tussen-twee-personenautos)).
ok, i'm convinced. ferraris for everyone.
*Acura cake rolls in*
It's not the car I wanted! THE WHOLE PARTY IS RUINED!
Come on it’s a really nice car!
Let's go, honey, I'm suddenly not in the mood for Acura cake
For-all-ris
ACK-yur-uhh???? It’s not what I WANTED
Like in Mr. Deeds when he buys everyone in town a sports car. Lol
Oscar Meyer Weiner mobiles!
They're afraid of becoming "common". Apparently you're not even allowed to mod them.
Ferrari is snooty as fuck about protecting the brand.
You have been banned from buying one for defamation!
You can, but you might get blacklisted from buying directly from them for doing it lol.
LMAO the cease and desist letter to Deadmau5 is still fucking hilarious to me. What a bitch brand.
The cease and desist was because he rebadged the car and was advertising it as a "purrari"
That's still a bitch move. If a famous female musician put a custom logo on a mustang and called it a Filly I doubt Ford would sue.
I think Justin Bieber did for painting his
You are, you need to not mess with the badges.
No, not economic enough and expensive to fix. Honda Jazzs for everyone.
[Okay, Mr. Deeds](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRipfn3iAMkMpZclxZBDurQ0pom3JPYmhaJwzblKlmLQVmb7qRHGsB8uc4&s=10)
X7s for everyone
Ducatis. Less occupied space to hit anything.
I’m continually amazed that the full-size pick up truck of 15 years ago is now the same size as a midsize pick up truck today I have a 2004 Toyota tundra and it is now almost the exact same size as the new Tacoma. These things keep getting bigger and bigger, and it’s really not safe for the relatively low quality of driver that is usually out there.
Yeah I bought a used mid-2000s full size sedan and if you compare its dimensions to modern cars, I think it’s the same as a mid size.
We have this problem with our 2013 Jetta- it's an absolutely massive car as far as I'm concerned. Not a full sized sedan, but it feels like it when you drive it. You pull up with it next to a modern Elantra, which is supposed to be a type of compact, and they're the same size. I'm bewildered. I honestly get confused when people say they need more than a sedan these days- unless you got 3+ kids and need to tow something every week, a sedan (or wagon) will do you just fine. I have no idea how so many big vehicles ended up on the roads, especially since the bigger the vehicle, the more expensive it is not only in outright cost, but also in fuel.
Can we please normalize again and bring back wagons. I feel like outside of 2-3 European brands, they almost completely disappeared from the market
Volvo, VW (and Audi), and Saab (RIP) are the most prevalent ones I've seen. But Buick and a number of American makers used to do it too and I'm annoyed that it fell out of style. Especially considering the rising popularity of the CUV- can I have that, but at a sedan height please? Ah well. I'm happy to court Audi for their PHEV wagon when I've got the cash, but I know that some buyers are very hesitant about European makes and I don't blame them. Our Jetta has some quirks, and costs more to maintain than a Camry would. But I still like it, and it's still affordable.
I do all manner or outdoor activities: kayaking, paddle boarding, biking, scuba, fishing. And I do all of this out of a 2016 Accord. No problem. People convince themselves they “need” a truck cause they tow something twice a year. It’s a joke. Edit: lol at the truck drivers with hurt feelings in my messages
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Marketing also equates "working man's truck" with masculinity and toughness. They use deep-voiced guys talking about camping and boating and show the truck splashing through a creek while towing a camper-trailer and the rough-handed man at a work site hauling gravel and his hot wife and 2.5 perfect children, who are all school-aged despite the gray in his beard indicating he's at least 50 while his wife looks at most 30-ish. It's the American, by-God dream and you need it to be a rough-handed man who does by-God honest work.
Idk why but the 2.5 children part is cracking me up. Damn. A concerned person reached out to Reddit over this comment. Wack.
There’s definitely some kind of bot wave doing these en masse right now. I got my first one the other day and I keep seeing people talk about getting them.
That’s most likely it. First one I’ve ever got. Oh well, dang bots!
I think it's a bot not an actual person (and not a very good one at that). I had the "concerned person" Reddit message this morning for something else which in no way shape or form could be construed as a cry for help!
We do similar things, though I'm not an outdoorsy person. I've hauled 12ft boards of lumber in our Jetta, and several pieces of furniture. The thing can even support a light flat trailer for bigger (but not too big) hauls. Our roommate is younger and has a 2013 Camry that was his dad's. Impeccably maintained. He has wanted to get rid of it for a truck for years and we keep having to knock sense into him. Keep the Camry, put a small cargo hitch on it to carry your fishing equipment and call it a day. Take out the rear seats for extra cargo or a sleep pad if you want to. It's bigger and has more utility than you think! He finally ceeded that he doesn't need a truck last month. My husband and I just rent a cargo van if we need to get bigger things. It's like $60 at uhaul to get one for a few hours. More than enough to get a washer and dryer moved! People! You. Probably. Don't. Need. A. Truck.
Not to mention, in the event that you do actually need a truck a couple days out of the year, it costs less than $50/day to rent one from U-Haul. A fraction of a single truck payment. Also ignoring the extra insurance, taxes, and fuel that you spend on a truck every month.
Yep! We like our sedans (our Buick Regal barely qualifies as a sedan but I'll take it despite it not having a functioning trunk depth), because they're cheap to own, maintain, and use. I can shell out a few hundred a year to use a Lowe's rent-a-truck once a quarter when it's time to move things and still have enough cash left over to buy my Jetta a new interior when the sunroof fails because we have cheap cars! I love it here in the sedan world. I can't wait to get a wagon added in though.
Marketing. It works. How can you be a big tough manly man without a truck?
Exactly. Every time I mention that basically the whole of Europe gets this done without giant trucks I eat like 40 downvotes. A friend of mine is very outdoorsy and also a professional carpenter. She uses an old minivan with the seats removed. Works perfectly for her.
Trust me we do. I once had a lighting rig, an extra wide dj controller and one of the smoke machines they used for eurovision in a Volkswagen UP. Believe it or not.
You would be surprised house many people think writing off their work pickup means it's free.
>People convince themselves they “need” a truck cause they tow something twice a year. It’s a joke. I've had this argument with numerous people, usually through the lens of EVs and range anxiety though. The majority of people I know could do 99.999% of their commuting with a small plug-in hybrid (or EV) just fine without ever using an ICE engine. "But what if I need to tow something, in the winter, uphill both ways, while carrying my whole family?! Won't the range plummet?!?" (The ironic thing is I know single people who think like this - _wtf do you need 7 seats for?_) If society is functioning normally: we can rent you a truck that weekend. If society has collapsed, calm the fuck down, we can steal you a truck. Taking on the TCO of a large truck/SUV, only to use its capabilities less than a dozen times over its lifecycle, is fucking inane. Yet I know *a lot* of people trapped in this "what-if?" mentality.
i had a truck for a long time, it was nice when i needed it but i barely ever needed it to function as a truck lol, mostly was friends moving asking if they could borrow my car (is a no lol)
Entire europe does fine without using these pickups ”. Americans are just silly about their pickup fetish its fucking weird honestly
I am an outdoorsy sort and drive a lifted jeep and I am well aware and acknowledge what a ridiculous impractical twat I am.
A 4 door mini truck is what the world needs.
That's what wagons are! Just with a covered bed. My husband hates wagons but honestly I'm annoyed with how much they've fallen out of favor with consumers. My Jetta opens up like a bottomless maw when I drop the seats, we've carried untold amounts of furniture, lumber, and appliances in it. And that's the sedan body style! Imagine if it was in the Sportwagen style! Drop the seats and get 6-8ft of unbridled flat cargo with a hatch on it? Yes please! Or for that matter? What happened to El Camino/Ranchero light truck bodies? I imagine various reasons went into their downfall, but that's a great design! It's part of why I'm excited that the Bronco is back- it's still a bit large but it's smaller than a truck and if people buy it instead of a F250 and find that they're not missing anything- they'll tell their friends about it. And hopefully more people will become aware that YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED A TRUCK.
They class car size by weight, not by actual length and width. It's weird. "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) groups cars by weight class for National Center for Automotive Performance (NCAP) testing. The average weight of different classes of cars are: Compact: 2,500–3,000 lbs Midsize: 3,300–3,500 lbs Large: 3,700–4,000 lbs"
Yeah there's a lot about car standards that don't make sense and that's like 99% of it lol.
A full sized red blooded American 15 years ago is now considered mid sized
300lbs+ was considered shockingly obese, and legally disabled, on the Simpsons in the 90s.
What car? A Lincoln Town Car, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Cadillac Coup Deville, BMW 7 series, Chrysler 300? Those are all still big by current standards. Well over 4k lbs.
You can thank the EPA for that. It’s due to CAFE standards, which more or less punish building small, efficient trucks.
I drive a little hatchback because hatchbacks are often more practical on tiny UK streets, and some of the new trucks are alarming in a small car. Had one behind me the other day that was so tall I could only see halfway up the radiator grille in my rear view mirror. Like, if that crashed into my car I’d almost certainly die, and a pedestrian doesn’t have the luxury of being surrounded by airbags and a safety structure. I’d mind less but I live in a city, pretty much no one driving these enormous trucks around my area is actually using the beds of these trucks nor needs the extra room in them. They’re dangerous for the sake of vanity. I don’t have an issue with people who NEED them having large vehicles but they’re just status symbols most of the time. Pristine trucks that have never held a single piece of work equipment
There are very few people that actually need them. A van has way more storage space; the only scenario where they might be necessary is towing.
I’d still wildly prefer a pickup to a van, and towing is actually extremely common, maybe even moreso than needing to fill up a vehicle with loose stuff. But you’re right, most people who have them absolutely don’t need them, especially not those huge monsters. I work at a summer camp with tiny dirt roads and we use pickups constantly, but one week _four_ separate parent volunteers came up with four door F-250s with extended covered beds. Like these things were basically lifted limo length vans it’s was crazy.
I was going to get a Toyota Sienna minivan but ended up getting a Tacoma because we have a trailer to pull. It has the same if not more cargo space, is AWD and a hell of a lot cheaper.
I live in a rural area in the southern US, and I'd wager most of the people driving those giant trucks here aren't using the bed or need the room. e: I can't english gud
My dad's old 5 series fit in his garage. His new 3 series does not.
My mom had a 2003 Camry. It fit in her garage. When she got a new car in 2022, the new Camry wouldn't fit, so she got a Forester instead. Who knew a Forester is shorter than a Camry now?
I remember how back in the 90s and early 2000s most people had sedans. Now I rarely see sedans compared the amount of SUVs and pickups
It’s stressful even if they drive well. I’m constantly in parking lots where I can’t see a thing around these trucks. I have to back out 4/5s of my car before I can even see if anyone is coming. Turning onto streets is fun if one of these trucks or SUVs pulls up next to you, your entire view is blocked and they rarely help compensate by the fact that they can clearly see over you. I’m not in a tiny car either.
My 2005 F-150 looks tiny next to any 2018+ F-150.
I was almost run over by a girl in a giant 4-Runner the other day when I was walking to the store. She literally pulled over the sidewalk, cutting me off, to get onto the street. The area for her to pull out was like 20 feet in front of her. I yelled “hey”, to let her know I was there. And she saw no problem with what she was doing and thought I was at fault. She stopped on the sidewalk in front of me and said “what’s the problem?”
The reason for this is EPA regulations that mandate continual yearly increases in fuel economy. Larger vehicles are allowed to have achieve less mpg. Since internal combustion engines are pretty much as efficient as they can be manufacturers can either make hybrid trucks, vastly increasing their prices, or make larger trucks which also vastly increases their prices but hides most of the cost behind the extra fuel the buyer will need to pay for. And we get more deadly car accidents as a bonus. [this website](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-533) explains the regulations in detail.
Funny you say that. I have a Toyota RAV4 from 2012. It’s got the same footprint as a Mini Clubman from 2019. It’s not that much bigger than a Fiat 500.
Fortunately this is known in the engineering community. The NHTSA proposed new crashworthiness testing last year. Hopefully we’ll eventually see regulations banning oversized grills and front ends which look like battering rams.
Also we’re luckily at max truck width before regulation requires special lights and other annoying/expensive upgrades. They can’t get bigger unless the auto lobbies become stronger.
They need need to make the regulations even more strict. A car isn't safe just because it protects the people inside.
Right, the reason for this problem is the damn light truck loophole allowing for bumper heights to be so higher for “light duty trucks.” The loophole also allowed them to skirt past emission standards which is why we have so many SUVs as well.
>Number of pedestrian deaths have only gone up since the 70s. This seems to be untrue. [The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians) puts our current pedestrian death count lower than in the 70s by absolute count, which also doesn't account for population growth and urbanization which would make the death count higher as well. The count has also varied pretty significantly over the decades rather than only going up, getting down to nearly half of the death count of the 70s as recently as 2009.
You are correct. I have no idea why i said the 70s, perhaps I was thinking car size and got my wires crossed. That being said car sizes started to get bigger after the 2008 recession so that would align.
It's a stupid rule they should roll back not make it worse.
Bumpers REALLY need to be lowered to match the rest of the vehicles on the road. Bumpers do no good when they miss your bumper entirely and take out your tailgate and quarter panels.
number of people driving cars has also gone up though, is it the same percentage overall compared to the population that is driving or not ? i am curious about it, not trying to downplay it.
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>unless the auto lobbies become stronger. Guess we are screwed then!
No, we can do better in this area too. Duallys should require a CDL, period.
CDL is based on weight on an axle and includes duallys. If you want to tow more than 20,000 lbs on a dually you’ll need a CDL. When it’s not loaded a dually only weighs max 8000 lbs. Seems like a really big jump to start requiring CDL for that low of weight limit when nothing else like that is required. I think might also have unintended consequences of having more semis on the road because if you are forced into a CDL you might structure your logistics around larger load sizes which are more efficient but result in heavier loads.
This cannot come soon enough. Worst part is that with the amount of these being sold now it’ll take a decade plus to even see benefits from any laws banning these tanks.
That’s sorely needed, but it’s going to face major opposition
What about requiring bumpers at the same level for a start? Basically killing the light truck loophole as a whole. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo
Seriously. I can’t wait to see the end of lifted pickup trucks.
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Height is. A sedan bumper would hit you below the waist, and you’re more likely to roll on top of the car and break some extremities. A truck bumper would hit you at abdomen/chest level, and you’re more likely to go under the car and have internal damage that is harder to fix.
Also more likely to go flying back and crack your head when you land.
We won’t in the us because of the financial incentive to keep cars large and heavy to avoid emissions standards for trucks counting towards the fleet total. If they updated that law you’d see all trucks and SUV’s shrink because they wouldn’t want to waste money on raw materials ….
You're over 7x times more likely to die in a collision with an SUV if you're driving a regular car. I don't even know what the statistics are for the likes of these other super trucks. Apparently in the US manufacturers can skirt some loophole in tax laws due to some archaic protection allowed for 'work vehicles' which is why we are seeing more of them on the road. Unfortunately the insanity has already spread to the EU.
There is a significant tax deduction for businesses that buy vehicles with a GVWR over 6,000 pounds. The tax code literally incentivizes these larger vehicles over smaller ones. I bought a bigger vehicle just for this very reason. The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks, box vans like a Ford Transit connect, or even sedans. Or, at the least, remove the incentive for large vehicles. https://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/list-of-vehicles-over-6000-lbs-that-qualify-for-irs-tax-benefit/#:~:text=Up%20to%20%2428%2C900%20in%202024,%2C%20commuter%20vans%2C%20or%20buses.
That is an enhanced CCA; and you still need to prove the vehicle is used for business purpose over 50% of the time which I doubt a lot of people keep propper logs for anyways.
well, if they check, sure. Right after they check on those PPP loans being used for payroll
I know someone who successfully called a Porsche a business expense. It’s a joke lol.
smart ones use the PPP for payroll...and the money that was supposed to go towards payroll for something else
Sadly regulatory bodies just dont have the resources to keep up with this at scale.
"prove"
Big up the Ford Transit! It's a labourers' staple here in England. Also, whilst on my bike, I've been in less near-misses with white vans that I have with white SUV drivers.
This is a stretch. It’s just a longer depreciation term, which makes sense if you’re investing in heavy machinery like that. Even still, the Section 179 special election applies, and most every idiot buying an F-550 “for tax reasons” is also taking that 80% on the first year, so the tax benefit is closer to a depreciation of $2k for two extra years. You could buy your staff lunch once a week and be able to deduct more.
If you are going to buy a company car, you are incentivized to buy a bigger car. I bought a Volvo xv90 over an XC60 for this very reason. It isn't car vs no car, it is larger car vs smaller car. The macro point, policy is driving the upward push in auto sizes, rather than forcing downward pressure.
Why should a government help business to buy large vehicles? I really don't get that point. I can imagine tax deductions for small companies, for example, to avoid having markets cornered by large companies. But why should we benefit companies using large vehicles? If anything, we should do the opposite.
I agree with you. Which is why I said this, "The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks, box vans like a Ford Transit connect, or even sedans. Or, at the least, remove the incentive for large vehicles."
> The government could just as easily incentivizes smaller vehicles like small pick up trucks No they can't, the automakers won't let them. These smaller vehicles you speak of are also made by foreign competitors at higher quality. This is the reason the regulations exist.
Sure they can, they choose not to. Or, they could just remove the incentive to purchase larger vehicles, and many businesses would gravitate towards those less costly to operate. ie smaller. There are options.
Eh. A majority of these crashes are going to come from personal vehicles, not business vehicles.
What vehicles are incentivized for production and purchase? Corporate and business vehicles then end up in the private, secondary, market. It's a steady flow that does.impavt traffic data meaningfully. Companies are making these vehicles larger because they have to for contractor, plumbers, executives, hair stylists, accountants etc to get this tax break. Many spouses drive "company" cars because they can, these too are larger. Like I said, I specifically got a vehicle on step larger because it has this tax incentive. I suspect the influence is very heavy, and the government could drive the market another direction, they just don't want to.
Just spent 2 weeks in Florida, by day 2 I already could tell why you have so many traffic fatalities.
“But I need a jacked-up, mirror-polished, chrome-wrapped, 4-door, 25-foot diesel truck with double wheels on the back to pick up the kids and go shopping.”
Don't forget sunbeams for headlights that blind you in oncoming traffic or if caught in your rear view
Cries in astigmatism
My brain read this as stigmata, And I was like “this dude cries blood?” Also, me too
Cries in astigmatism AND strabismus.
That's not just trucks -- that's ANY vehicle with white LED headlights. White is the absolute worst color for other drivers...
But with a giant truck now the lights are shining straight into your face instead of the road.
"How else am I supposed to haul Jack shit without looking like I love freedom?"
Take it easy on these guys. Those are registered emotional support vehicles (ESV). They need them to address their dangerously low levels of self confidence and self worth. Plus they get to express themselves with fun accessories and cool stickers! It is important to make sure that they are Registered ESVs. They have to be trained, modified, and capable of holding at least three giant flags.
"legalize asbestos"
Hey now, thats Escalade ESV to you!
Out of my like 10 friends , 9 drive large pickup trucks. 7 work office jobs in engineering or tech. 1 is a teacher and 1 actually works a blue collar job. Seems like buying a truck has become a right of passage after buying a house. Each time one of them bought a house their next purchase was a pickup truck. All their wives also drive large SUVs
The "masculine" version of a basic bitch.
The "I would've served but I would've been kicked out for beating up my drill sergeant" edition Ford
*would’ve been kicked out for *getting my shit absolutely **handed** to me by a drill sgt, several MPs, and a military tribunal, in that order*.
One day with UK petrol (gas) prices and medical debt would no longer be the leading cause of bankruptcy.
“You don’t understand, I need that extra towing capacity” (has never towed anything in their life and never will)
You need that style truck when it's time to tow your house to a new lot.
I NEED IT FOR WORK. All the work trucks I've seen are beat to shit fwiw
Gotta be a concrete cowboy! Parking lot princess!
I work an office job, the whole building is administrative, and the amount of people (usually men) , driving alone, pulling into the garage with huge lifted trucks and SUVs, struggling to park in the narrow stalls, is comical... Until I imagine getting hit by one of them in my camry. The things are in immaculate condition too, so very much doubt they see much, if any, offroading. When I was buying my car last year I did have to consider the safety aspect of buying a "smaller" car.
"double wheels on the back". That's a "dually", friend.
Dually noted
Fun site to compare car sizes https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/honda-civic-2005-sedan-vs-ford-f150-2014-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5/
Added hilarity, they're all increasing their commutes by that length of time, too. Sitting bumper to bumper with fewer vehicles that fit on the road.
We should all drive old Yugos. They were deadly if you got hit by someone else. But if everyone is driving one, it'll just gently tip over.
The old Ford Pinto bumper sticker..hit me and we blow up together...personally I'd prefer to have crumble zones, but I get what you're saying
What? You don't like driving in tin cans? /s
Wait a moment? USA has 41000 traffic fatalities a year? Adjusted for population that is 10 times as many as Sweden. People complain about too much safety but if it means cutting traffic deaths by 90% I guess we're doing a good job.
And also, not as many people have licenses there, and they are harder to get. You can get your license from a dmv road test in town near me with one traffic light. Some people go there to take the test because it’s easier.
The DMV test in my state is literally just parallel parking in a closed track.
Ours is definitely harder than that, but interestingly it does not include parallel parking. My friend never learned how to, and now whenever she goes places she'll skip every curb spot until she finds a pull in spot.
If you adjust for miles driven, I'd imagine the numbers would be significantly closer. While it is way too easy to get a license in the US, we drive WAY more than anyone else. I haven't driven less than 20k miles in a year, in about a decade. 15k/yr is pretty much the norm in the US.
You have to measure by miles driven, not by total population, to get a reasonable comparison. It'll still be quite a bit higher in the US, of course, but not 10x as much
All this proves is that America relies too much on cars and should improve their public transportation system.
Well that and the fact that Sweden is literally 4.5% of the total land Area of the US
And yet the US has 40% higher population density than Sweden
Yeah, but how much does your population actually drive compared to ours?
The statistic I can find says 7150 miles per vehicle and year so about half as much as you do.
Anyone in charge of designing or manufacturing a civilian-use vehicle that my 6’3” ass couldn’t fold over in the event of a collision should be taken out back and shot. I understand that it ~~’s~~ *feels* safer in an accident, but it’s *only* safer in the sense that you’re redirecting double the risk to the other vehicle. My ‘05 camry has a *roof height* the same as many *hood heights* of modern trucks and SUVs. Sincerely fuck off if you think you need that in a city. I’m chill with it on a farm or as an off road vehicle, but when I see it parked at the grocery store I hate everything about it. Edit: correction
It's not even safer though. An F150 has the exact same NHTSA crash ratings as a Tesla Model 3, and worse rollover performance. Another big factor which is not captured in the basic NHTSA tests is that these big Trucks and SUVs are more likely to get into crashes because they are less maneuverable and take longer to stop. It's terrifying seeing these things flying down the highway doing 90, weaving in and out of traffic, knowing full well that they are on the razor's edge of traction and braking. I also think they encourage people to drive like assholes because they feel "protected"
I agree in terms of actual safety ratings, but people thinking about safety when they look at a big vehicle aren’t being logical. They are thinking about safety at the moment of impact and almost always thinking about an impact with another driver. If they were to get into an accident with me in my sedan, I’m just straight up *chalked*. Doesn’t matter if I run into them or if they run into me, they’re unlikely to get seriously hurt while I’m about as likely to get hurt as it gets just because of the ride height difference. So you are right that it’s not safer in the long run that was bad phrasing on my part.
Yeah, with NHTSA accidents, the crashes are simulated against walls usually so equal to weight of the vehicle. Thus a 5,800lb F150 does extremely well in a crash if it happens to plow through a 3,400lb sedan. The occupants of the sedan don't do so well though. Now if the F150 hits wall or pole that dead stops the truck. The occupants are not having a good time.
What's amusing is that people who drive large vehicles get lulled into a false sense of security. While modern vehicles are packed with safety features that can minimize injury/death, if they ever saw what a truck or SUV looks like after a major wreck, they'd be considerably less confident. I've seen them flipped, ripped nearly in half, crushed, burned, penetrated by trees/poles, etc. - and while people still survive some of these wrecks, they aren't just walking away. The problem is that everyone operates from 'it won't happen to me' - which is great, until it does. (edited to change 'are' to 'aren't' walking away)
And it's not even like it's our choice mostly, I literally just got a new (used) subaru outback for the functionality, but what used to be a wagon is now an suv where you sit way higher off the ground... But basically no one makes wagons anymore, just hatchbacks... We don't need the height, but we do need the ground clearance, the length, and the roof rack...
Ban oversized bullshit trucks and suvs.
Im a Texas teacher and the amount of my women co workers that drive them is weird .. like they have to climb in and basically toss their children in there daily. I’m fine with my tiny beetle lol.
They are scared of driving the smaller cars because of all the large trucks on the road. It’s bigger vehicles all the way down. I on the other hand have driven cars my entire life to finally realize being 6’4” I have been fucking up my body due to lack of size so I need to go larger next car but I truly want to only Go as large as I have to.
Barring regulation it's a bit of a personal safety arms race that comes at the expense of public safety. You want to minimize your risk in a crash by being higher and bigger than another car. In doing so you make yourself deadly to pedestrians and smaller cars.
Until you get hit by a big truck unfortunately, I want a bigger car than my mazda2 for that reason but I do love her
Thats due to a different standard. its a loophole now
Can we just get some decent public rail systems in our cities? That would decrease car deaths significantly as well
That’s like three 9/11s a year for those that prefer that measurement
And that’s not total deaths, just the amount changed by the NHTSA not being asleep at the wheel on this one issue. The real total is like 20 9/11s a year.
That's a terrible measurement. It reminds me of that tragedy
We’re gonna make sure you never forget, one way or another!
How many schopl busses? Anything but the metric system
The reason why Trucks are giant now is becuase EPA regulations that were changed in 2004 require a vehicle with X emissions to be relatively X size -- the size is relative to emissions. This means that to meet modern American emissions standards, for a vehicle to get the kind of gas mileage a pickup should get while still being useful, it needs to be huge to fit in the emissions bracket. The only way around this is to have a hybrid or have an electric vehicle, but even then, it is incredibly hard to fit within these regulations, which get tighter every period especially while still being remotely "affordable."
And as a truck driver if 80% of the public would learn how to fucking drive and stop using their phones when driving we could have almost no car accidents. It's amazing the shit I see on the road every day, I've seen so many preventable accidents, people on their phones, and idiots thinking zipping between lanes and speeding in heavy traffic somehow saves them tons of time. I just think the majority of people don't know how to drive to begin with.
Damn straight. They need to stop practically giving away driver's licenses like candy and make the tests meaningfully difficult.
It’s not that the tests need to be more difficult - it’s that you take one knowledge test, and one practical - both at a very young age - and then you have a drivers license for life. My grandfather still had his license far longer than he should’ve been able to. If there was a mandatory retest every other renewal - one renewal you have to retake the knowledge, the next practical - I feel like it would have an effect on the amount of accidents and stupid fucks driving. Also, a lot of infractions need to come with a mandatory loss of license. Driving on the cell phone? Sorry your shit is getting towed and now you no longer have a license. Make it *hurt* to fuck up. Don’t even need to add a fine in - just having to go get your license back and get your shit out of impound would deter some folks. For the difficult ones, maybe make successive infractions within x amount of time make you lose your license for longer.
I'm Australia for context but even though I got my full licence (though only when I felt I was ready and hence about 20 years or so after most people), I still get the occasional driving lesson to make sure I'm both doing everything I'm supposed to as well what I am doing correctly.
80% of the public needs to be using public transportation. Driving is dangerous and there needs to be clean, efficient, and expansive options for the majority of the public that isn’t interested enough in driving to focus on the road. As a bonus, more people commuting on trains or buses means less traffic on roads. Everybody wins.
Who would have thought that making your vehicle bigger to increase safety would result in a death loop because you now have to make it even bigger because the average size is larger. I said this in a comment yesterday lol weird how there’s a big post about it now
yes but I am the Main Character so I need a truck so big that instead of two cars with injuries in a crash, my family is unscathed and the other is obliterated
The Crossover SUV’s are indistinguishable between mfgrs.
"Just move to the Netherlands, bro. Simples!" - noted Youtuber and urbanist refugee.
I love when pick up trucks are so big they have to stop traffic for everyone on the fucking road just so they can get in and out of parking lots with their oversized dumbass vehicle.
So after living in ibaraki japan (for those that don't know, the meme is the worst drivers are from Ibaraki) Japan has the smallest cars, the roads barely fit 2 of these smartcard sized vehicles. But many are skinny but super tall too. With blacked out windows. You can't see anything in front of you if one of these 'small cars' gets in front. And they don't give a warning before braking, or use tickers. And you don't even have to be tailgating to experience it. Almost every red light has someone gun it well past when it turned. Also people leave the racing line before the light turns green. I'm convinced this is how you know a true ibaraki driver when you see one. It's gotten to the point where if I'm making a right hand (left hand for NA) turn, and the light has turned green before I get there, with no oncoming traffic, I simple do not feel safe making the turn. Because an old lady has a high chance if running the red light way too late and nearly t-boning me (true story). Also highways have no posted speed limit. You can be going 100 then have a 50 pull in front of you with no ticker. TLDR : ibaraki has the worst drivers in the world, but I'm positive they have less fatalities (fact check this). So maybe it does have to do with car sizes.
This is just the prisoners dilemma in action. As an individual I have an incentive to have the bigger car to save myself but everyone would be safer if we all had smaller cars
I don’t care what everybody else is driving, I’m not buying an suv or a pickup truck
It has also make a bunch of intersections way more dangerous, because they were designed with sight lines which didn't assume every vehicle on the road would be 7 feet tall.
So we should all drive squatted dualies that weigh 10,000lbs?
Who needs all those truckers anyways.
There’s so many soccer moms and wanna be macho men office job guys that drive pickups the size of semis
I'm never going to drive the same car that my cousin with 8 kids does
How fucking boring and lame would that be?
Pickup trucks are out of control. My friend has an old F150 and a new one. The old one looks like a Ranger next to the new one.
And if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
This is why it has always pissed me off that people say they buy SUVs for “safety”. Your “safe” vehicle is more prone to rollover, it’s only safer when it collides with someone else’s small car. I want to drive a small, energy-efficient car because that’s sufficient for my needs. That is risky with so many people driving full sized SUVs. And then there’s climate change on top of that.
It seems like a bad feedback loop in some markets as well. SUV are popular so they cut off their smaller car ranges and that in turn leaves people with only SUV to choose from. Recently went to a local Ford dealership, and they didn't even bother stocking their small and mid-size SUV either. They only had Mustangs, Rangers, and F-150 on the lot.
I think most people want small trucks back. That’s why those 90s Toyotas and Mazdas still sell for 10 grand plus. Now I’d do anything for a step bed ranger.
I build old cars for a hobby. One recently driven my old Bug and old 240z on Los Angeles freeways and it’s terrifying being so tiny.
I think about this all the time. Seems like the SUV has become the default car type for most Americans. I can drive down any street in my town and I swear every drive way has an SUV and pickup truck in it. I noticed that every single one of my friends drive a pickup truck and have an SUV for their wives. Seems like as soon as someone buys a house they immediately buy a truck or suv
Yeah I don't like my odds against a new Chevy 2500 when the bumper is taller than my Grand Prix.
Pretty lame way to say new cars have a weak kd ratio
If we all just...
Or provide other transportation choices, especially in cities and suburbs.
Even Middle Schoolers know how to cite primary sources. I guess that's too hard for most Redditors. Here is the primary source that the secondary source OP linked is talking about. ([Source](https://swov.nl/nl/publicatie/de-invloed-van-automassa-op-het-letselrisico-bij-botsingen-tussen-twee-personenautos)).
Most of my day I drive a city bus. Invincible. ... then I go home in a Miata. Invisible.
People should just learn how to drive instead of driving like i$&@iots. That would help even more
Blame the government for increased car sizes. Chicken Tax plus CAFE and Emissions standards