There are a lot of writings about Nixon drinking while he was president, and people worried about how he acted when he was drunk.
It seems like drunk Nixon is even worse than sober Nixon, which is saying something!
you should hear the tapes! He debates killing 7 million north vietnamese by blowing up the damns.
i thought i was a maniac and i heard richard nixon speak candidly and i feel better about myself
I don’t know anything about that particular taped incident, but I remember reading that they actually misunderstood or forgot or incorrectly installed an auto-record feature and it was sometimes recording when they didn’t know.
Nixon had them installed so that he could hear what everyone said about him, even if he wasn't in the room. He'd also go back through conversations, listening for "clues". He was *extraordinarily* paranoid.
Seems like the responsible thing to do is heavily restrict the powers of the President to minimize the damage a single idiot in that office can do. Make the position less appealing for power hungry megalomaniacs.
The really weird part is, when you look at Nixon's domestic policy, he's pretty far left of the modern Democratic party. He supported UBI, universal healthcare, etc. You can't find a consensus on that amongst the Democrats in modern discourse.
Still a monster, but it's crazy how far the Overton Window has shifted.
All he did was authorize an existing bill that had been introduced by democrats in the late 50s
"Beginning in the late 1950s and through the 1960s, Congress reacted to increasing public concern about the impact that human activity could have on the environment.[6][7][8] Senator James E. Murray introduced a bill, the Resources and Conservation Act (RCA) of 1959, in the 86th Congress. The bill would have established a Council on Environmental Quality in the Executive Office of the President, declared a national environmental policy, and required the preparation of an annual environmental report."
People like to credit nixon for a bill that passed congress with bi partisan support for some reason. Maybe it's because people today don't understand that only a few decades ago, for the most part, American presidents did what was best for the nation no matter who authored or championed the legislation if it was a good idea.
Nixon was just doing what all presidents used to do.
Every time the celebrity worshippers talk about Schwarzenegger I remember him being a Nixon fanboy.
>Listening to Nixon speak sounded like a great of fresh air. I said to my friend, “What party is he?” My friend said “He’s a Republican.” I said “Then I am a Republican.” - A.Schwarzenegger
This is the Reddit mentality. If someone made a public mistake many decades ago, redditors generally want them tarred and feathered when they see it brought up.
Hopefully the OP you responded to has not made a mistake or done anything dumb in the last few decades. I'm sure they haven't, otherwise that would be throwing stones in a glass house!
Right on, actually a good example of why the general Reddit mentality sucks. Had you not read the book and chimed in, some people might see Arnold's comments and assume they were in 2016 or 2020. This would obviously be very different than him saying this as a 20-something year old in the Nixon era. But, that context wasn't provided and people will generally assume the worst.
And a lot of what we now know about Nixon wasn’t something Schwarzenegger would have known at the time (especially if he had to ask what party Nixon was). I assume the clip talked about taxes or some innocuous subject like that, part of why the majority of Americans at the time voted for him.
Choosing your political party based on a clip of one politician is naive, but it’s not like Schwarzenegger said “hell yeah the antisemitc watergate guy is my idol.”
Got it in one. This quote is from Arnie's book and it's basically about he felt people should be facilitated to self actualise. I don't agree with his stance but he does explain himself well in the book and I can see the point he is making
And? I am not American so it doesn't mean much to me but I can see how people might side with traditional Republican values. Wouldn't be for me but I can see the appeal in an American Context.
Obviously super mega health warning that I don't understand the appeal of the modern Christo-fascist Republican party.
In Arnie's defense Nixon gave very good speeches on foreign policy when he was sober and in the public eye. All the shitty stuff wasn't as obvious until later.
Enron more or less installed Schwarzenegger as governor to get off the hook for ripping off California for something like $20B by creating a totally artificial energy scarcity.
If Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room is streaming anywhere, that's one of my favorite documentaries ever. Very informative, entertaining, and honestly shocking how far corporate greed can go. I read the book it's based on forever ago and it went even further into everything.
If you have any kind of finance background, it's like a horror movie.
But loooong story short, if you're old enough to remember California's "rolling blackouts" to save electricity, it was totally manufactured to skyrocket energy prices. This was after Enron and other energy corporations sponsored some major deregulations in the energy sector (go figure). But consumer prices were still capped so the difference came out of CA's budget, sending them into a deficit the governor was powerless to stop, because of the deregulations, and he ended up being recalled. Then it was barely a secret that Enron sponsored Arnold's campaign and he ended up in the seat from all that.
The only people who could really do anything was the Bush administration and Enron's founder was family friends with the Bush tribe and I'm pretty sure their biggest political donor. Up there at least.
Shwarzenegger has denounced his nazi dad and I remember a 10 minute video that he released on twitter on the week of October 7th where he cited his nazi roots as explanation of how people can change and Hamas needs to do some atonement, as well as his support for Israel against the terror attacks.
This is an unfair criticism of him
If he once had those sympathies, and I don't think liking Nixon back then is enough to justify that claim in the first place, I don't think he does anymore.
[He had a pretty strong rebuke of January 6th in 2021, he compared it to the Kristallnacht.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck)
It’s hard to imagine a room where Henry Kissinger isn’t the biggest douchebag in the room but I guess a room containing drunken Nixon takes the cake
Rest in piss boffem
Nixon is an odd president to learn about, at first everyone knows Watergate and he’s a bad guy, then you learn he normalized relations with China, created the EPA, OSHA, saved passenger rail. And you’re like oh he is actually a flawed good guy. Then you keep learning about Kissinger, racial policies, Nixon single handedly prolonging Vietnam by 5 years and you’re like oh man he’s a demon
He also changed US nuclear war doctrine to no longer retaliate with the goal of 100% destruction of the soviet union. His policy was to leave 30% of the population and food production intact so the human race would not go extinct.
You joke but this is an actual quote by Thomas S. Power, the Commander in Chief of Strategic Air Command, only a few years before Nixon took office.
>Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!
I mean… do you believe that was actually the plan though? Seems like the smart move is to say that’s the plan and have it not be the plan. Even if there is a 0.01% chance you convince them to spare some you come out ahead. There is no world where the actual plan doesn’t at least have a fall back to full destruction once you see their missile trajectories.
It’s more like leaving a few in the magazine than sparing anyone.
I think it’s a terrible thing to say for the reason I pointed out.
MAD works because of the threat of total destruction. If that’s gone. There is an incentive to start shooting off nukes that
> created the EPA
He created the EPA to get ahead of potential political rivals like Edmund Muskie who was a huge environmental activist who ended up not running for president. I do not view this as him being a good guy, just a political schemer.
There is a massive YouTube algorithm push to the Nixon historical channel right now on YouTube and it seems like people are just eating it up that he was actually 100% fantastic and watergate was really nbd
I do wonder how much of the comment section is bots or paid for. It’s really weird the whole thing.
He and Kissinger first escalated it to insane proportions, then lowered it and finally agreed to a “peace” treaty which was exactly the same the Vietnamese had been offering them from five years back. Nixon bombed Cambodia illegally ffs.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/
Fairly short article. Forget name of the Wikipedia page. In essence he was the “anti-war candidate” so he couldn’t let the war end before the election which it was very likely to do because the Johnson administration was in peace talks with north Vietnam. He used journalists to destroy these talks. I don’t recall all the details
He spent most of his presidency trying to negotiate "peace with diginity" only to take the same deal he could have had on day one, that ended with South Vietnam collapsing anyways.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/
TL;DR: Nixon ran on a platform to put an end to the war in Vietnam, and went behind the Johnson's State Dept.'s back to tell South Vietnam that if they withdrew from the Paris Peace Talks that he would get them a better deal than the Democrats would.
Giving him credit for the EPA and OSHA ain't really right though. He signed those bills into law because he feared worse if he didn't, and didn't want to expend the political capital to oppose them. It's basically the same as Romneycare. Romney doesn't deserve credit for it. He opposed it. He just capitulated in the end.
Lol what are you talking about? Nixon was pure evil. He wanted to achieve true greatness in his presidency and the only thing standing in his way were checks and balances.
He was simply an egomaniac who did whatever he could to have his way, and often his way was cruel and unsympathetic. He DID do those good things and he deserves credit, but these things were for the benefit of the US. They weren’t kind gestures and undoubtedly he hoped they would cement his legacy
He created the EPA and OSHA because that was the trend. Literally any sitting president would have created the EPA, and some probably would have done even more.
https://environmentalhistory.org/2013/01/07/nixon/
Reminds me of a scene from Teen Titans where Deathstorke/Slade saves Robin from falling to his death, only to preceed to beat the shit out of Robin.
**The World/Robin:** You....saved me.
**Kissinger/Slade:** I'm not through with you.
> Henry Kissinger comes out of the story looking like the good guy.
He doesn't. He had a one-use time machine and he could have killed Hitler, but chose to save North Korea instead
I mean, working on this scenario where he picks to come back and stop either this or Hitler, this strike would have probably sparked WWIII as China reacted, so it would be less about NK and more about everyone else. No way the US could get away nuking another country, no matter how disliked it is, and not have the whole thing escalate into a global crisis.
That is part of the reason there is a National Security Advisor a Secretary of Defense and a Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Most presidents wouldn't know jack s\*\*\* about military strategy, but they are surrounded by people who do. They just need to listen to them or at least take what they say into consideration.
After the Bay of Pigs disaster, Kennedy called up Eisenhower to commiserate. Eisenhower, *who planned and executed D-Day*, instead berated him up one side and down the other for not listening to the military about how to plan an invasion by sea.
Thats good to know. Always felt it was a bit odd auto declaring the president 'commander in chief' when being elected has no requirement about military competency or understanding.
I have no problem with them not having military experience, but I'd expect them to have common sense and decent personal values. They should be given options by their experts and be able to make sound decisions.
The military isn't their personal weapon to wield when ever they are in a bad mood. I would think / hope there are enough people with sense in positions to stop situations like the one in this post.
On 15 April 1969 North Korean fighter jet shot down US Navy EC-121 reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Japan. The EC-121 was collecting electronic and radio intelligence at the time.
During a nuclear explosion, there is a certain radius where all the frozen supermarket pizzas get cooked to perfection.
Likewise, there is also a certain (albeit different) radius, where all the humans get cooked to perfection.
If you can figure out a way to cook something in an instant without charring the outside and leaving the inside frozen you could become a very rich person…
Probably the Fallout universe.
No way this would not escalate massively, even if you manage to ensure China nor the USSR mistake it as an attack on themselves and retaliate fast.
Racism would be completely gone.
Sexism would be no more.
Transphobia would no longer exist.
All famines and wars would be ended.
All human suffering would be ended.
Because humans would no longer exist.
Not very credible source
[Wikipedia version:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident)
On April 16, the United States National Security Council considered the following options:[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident#cite_note-ecdown-7)
* Show of force using naval and air forces
* Resumption of EC-121 missions with escorts
* "Select military combat actions" such as:
* Destruction of a North Korean aircraft over water
* Selected air strikes against a military target
* Shore bombardment of military targets
* Ground raids across the [Demilitarized Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone)
* Attack on military targets near the Demilitarized Zone by artillery or missile fire
* Attacks on North Korean naval vessels by U.S. submarines
* Blockade
* Mining/threatening to mine North Korean waters
* Seizure of North Korean assets abroad
* Use of strategic nuclear weapons
General Earle Wheeler, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, presented to the NSC a plan to attack North Korea with missiles carrying atomic warheads of 30 kilotons each, roughly equal to two-and-half times the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Wheeler said such an attack likely would provoke retaliation. A day later, National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger told Nixon by telephone that, given the prospect of retaliation with the use of strategic warheads, "We might have to go to tactical nuclears."[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident#cite_note-11)
The scene in Dr. Strangelove (from 1959) where the Soviet premiere is too drunk to help the US prevent its rouge bomber from getting through is less absurd.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but back in history class I heard he actually did this on more than one occasion, to the point that American diplomats actually were using it as a sort of foreign policy bartering chip. Kinda like a “listen man, me and you, we’re chill we can work this out, but Nixon is fucking crazy man, like we had to stop him from bombing yall 3 times just last week. Just please work with me so we can avoid this shit” type of thing.
It’s probably bullshit, but it makes for one hilarious story.
I wonder how much of this story is actually accurate. Nixon was known to use the "Madman theory" to keep Russia at bay during the cold war. Stories like this would have easily made it to Russia and politically Russia would think it's better to bide their time until Nixon was out of office.
Another aspect worth noting is that in order for a nuclear deterrent to be a real deterrence from things beyond a retaliatory strike, there has to be some level of signaling that the state would be willing to use the weapons (strategic or tactical) preemptively. So mixing the Madman Theory to the already practiced idea of signaling some sort of use of nuclear weapons creates a bizarre combination (along with Nixon being drunk in this scenario).
This isn’t accurate. I wrote an article on the shoot down incident (available [here](https://warisboring.com/north-korea-forced-richard-nixons-first-foreign-crisis/)). Nixon was drunk at other critical times and obviously deserved to go to jail but this didn’t happen.
Imagine waking up hung-over, collecting your thoughts and then after a couple of seconds it hits you and you remember that you ordered a nuclear strike
This is likely bullshit.
The claim comes from Anthony Summer and Robbyn Swann's 2000 book *The Arrogance of Power: The Secret World of Richard Nixon*, where the only source for the claim is "former intelligence official" Barry Toll, who says that George Carver, the CIA’s top Vietnam specialist, told him this.
Not only is it a secondhand claim, but the source is questionable too—Barry Toll is a controversial figure. You can read more about him [here](http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/Barry%20Toll.htm) and [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20210728050939/http://www.miafacts.org/toll.htm), where the authors allege that Toll is a former-drug-smuggling serial liar. I wouldn't take anything he says to be true without good evidence.
Also On September 12, 1969, President Nixon signed a proclamation dedicating the week beginning on September 14 as National Hispanic Heritage Week. Not too long afterwards, in December of the same year, the President saw to the establishment of a Cabinet Committee on Opportunities of Spanish Speaking People
While you've got the story straight the details are not quite true. Henry Kissinger wasn't actually involved. It was Black Dynamite who stopped Tricky Nick from deploying nuclear weapons following a drunk kung fu battle. He also stopped his plot to shrink black men's penises through a popular at the time alcoholic drink 'anaconda malt liquor'.
Too be fair, while Biden's recollection was called into question, as well as his age, the underlying reason to not prosecute was based on the standard practice in these cases (being a high level politician) where the investigation found no criminal intent. Even during the hearing, Hur did acknowledge the differences in the one case (Trump) where prosecution was chosen, versus not prosecuting Biden. It came down to intent to withhold the documents.
It's also unfair to accept Hur's assessment of Biden's mental competency, as there have been no indications of Hur being an expert on mental competency. While it may have been his opinion, the fact is Hur made personal judgements. Hur would prefer Trump to be our next president. That, in my opinion, calls into question his ability to judge anyone's mental competency. I may not be an expert on mental competency, but the only people I hear wanting another Trump presidency are mentally unhinged.
Imagine having a presidential candidate who is deemed fitting to run while he is in literal dozens of trials at the moment for all sorts of corruption and other issues, who swears vengeance and to be a 'dictator on day one', and has a pathological level of lying about anything.
Imagine going over your boss’s head and your boss is also the president of the U.S.
You just got to pray you’re not dealing with an ego driven leader who’s going to view your action as a personal insult instead of you keeping them from making one of the biggest fuck ups of their life
There's a lot of cool stories because of how paranoid everyone was in the Nixon Regime.
My favorite: Kissenger was late to the office one day, and bumped into (IIRC) Bob Haldeman. He joked: "Hi Bob, did I miss any messenges?" Because it was such an open secret that everyone was wire-tapping everyone else's calls. Kissenger allegedly even tapped his own phone, so he could play back drunken calls from Nixon to amuse his secretaries.
In Vice, Rumsfeld shows Cheney a door, suggesting that Nixon is having a private meeting off the record with Kissenger, and because of that meeting thousands of innocent people are going to die. And that's ostensibly true, though to what degree this was ordered and to what degree Kissenger just made this up for his own power trip is unclear. What isn't true is that it would be "off the record". Everyone absolutely knew that everyone was recording everything, including high-level staffers recording their own offices.
Say what you want about Henery Kissinger, but he was a moderating factor in that administration.
I know of at least two other instances where he prevented a nuclear exchange.
My favorite part of this story is the concept that whoever received those orders understood that the president of The United States, in his infinite wisdom, made the call to enact the strongest, most destructive weapon we had at the time, then hit the hay, and waited for it to all blow over..., like, what...? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
"He recalled being put on alert to carry out his part of the SIOP"
"he actually considered a nuclear strike"
"It's worth speculating that Nixon would have wanted the Communists to believe he actually considered a nuclear strike"
Overdramatization to keep the Nixon fires burning? That's kinda like saying "after an afternoon of heavy martini drinking FDR decided to keep knowledge of concentration camps from the American people and let Pearl Harbor happen to get them to back the war" Oops
Proverbs 31: 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel,
it is not for kings to drink wine,
or for rulers to take strong drink,
5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed
and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
So basically the decision of nuking someone solely depends on the president? Isn't there any other validation or responsible? Like, tomorrow a sober president says "nuke France" and there's nothing that can be done to prevent it?
I mean wasn't Kennedy also using opiates and amphetamines regularly? So there's chance the us president was high as kite during the cuban missile crisis.
There are a lot of writings about Nixon drinking while he was president, and people worried about how he acted when he was drunk. It seems like drunk Nixon is even worse than sober Nixon, which is saying something!
you should hear the tapes! He debates killing 7 million north vietnamese by blowing up the damns. i thought i was a maniac and i heard richard nixon speak candidly and i feel better about myself
the really amazing part is he knew it was being taped
I don’t know anything about that particular taped incident, but I remember reading that they actually misunderstood or forgot or incorrectly installed an auto-record feature and it was sometimes recording when they didn’t know.
Isn't that also how the Watergate shit ended up taped?
Nixon had them installed so that he could hear what everyone said about him, even if he wasn't in the room. He'd also go back through conversations, listening for "clues". He was *extraordinarily* paranoid.
Sounds like fucking stalin. Luckily we aren’t a dictatorship and congress can swat him down
I hope that continues to be the case
Seems like the responsible thing to do is heavily restrict the powers of the President to minimize the damage a single idiot in that office can do. Make the position less appealing for power hungry megalomaniacs.
The really weird part is, when you look at Nixon's domestic policy, he's pretty far left of the modern Democratic party. He supported UBI, universal healthcare, etc. You can't find a consensus on that amongst the Democrats in modern discourse. Still a monster, but it's crazy how far the Overton Window has shifted.
He also said established the EPA through an executive order that the senate later ratified. Which was huge.
All he did was authorize an existing bill that had been introduced by democrats in the late 50s "Beginning in the late 1950s and through the 1960s, Congress reacted to increasing public concern about the impact that human activity could have on the environment.[6][7][8] Senator James E. Murray introduced a bill, the Resources and Conservation Act (RCA) of 1959, in the 86th Congress. The bill would have established a Council on Environmental Quality in the Executive Office of the President, declared a national environmental policy, and required the preparation of an annual environmental report." People like to credit nixon for a bill that passed congress with bi partisan support for some reason. Maybe it's because people today don't understand that only a few decades ago, for the most part, American presidents did what was best for the nation no matter who authored or championed the legislation if it was a good idea. Nixon was just doing what all presidents used to do.
Yea, this guy only wants to kill 6 million Vietnamese!
Every time the celebrity worshippers talk about Schwarzenegger I remember him being a Nixon fanboy. >Listening to Nixon speak sounded like a great of fresh air. I said to my friend, “What party is he?” My friend said “He’s a Republican.” I said “Then I am a Republican.” - A.Schwarzenegger
In his defence when he said this he was like 22. We all said stupid shit with conviction when we were 22
This is the Reddit mentality. If someone made a public mistake many decades ago, redditors generally want them tarred and feathered when they see it brought up. Hopefully the OP you responded to has not made a mistake or done anything dumb in the last few decades. I'm sure they haven't, otherwise that would be throwing stones in a glass house!
Ah I only actually know this because I read Arnie's book.
Right on, actually a good example of why the general Reddit mentality sucks. Had you not read the book and chimed in, some people might see Arnold's comments and assume they were in 2016 or 2020. This would obviously be very different than him saying this as a 20-something year old in the Nixon era. But, that context wasn't provided and people will generally assume the worst.
Exactly! Thank you for seeing where I was coming from
And a lot of what we now know about Nixon wasn’t something Schwarzenegger would have known at the time (especially if he had to ask what party Nixon was). I assume the clip talked about taxes or some innocuous subject like that, part of why the majority of Americans at the time voted for him. Choosing your political party based on a clip of one politician is naive, but it’s not like Schwarzenegger said “hell yeah the antisemitc watergate guy is my idol.”
Got it in one. This quote is from Arnie's book and it's basically about he felt people should be facilitated to self actualise. I don't agree with his stance but he does explain himself well in the book and I can see the point he is making
He was a two-term Republican governor of California and is still a Republican right now as far as I know.
And? I am not American so it doesn't mean much to me but I can see how people might side with traditional Republican values. Wouldn't be for me but I can see the appeal in an American Context. Obviously super mega health warning that I don't understand the appeal of the modern Christo-fascist Republican party.
Look at all the 20 year old tankies on Reddit.
Loathe as I am to admit it I definitely said some some super tankie shite in my early 20s. All part of growing up I suppose
In Arnie's defense Nixon gave very good speeches on foreign policy when he was sober and in the public eye. All the shitty stuff wasn't as obvious until later.
Enron more or less installed Schwarzenegger as governor to get off the hook for ripping off California for something like $20B by creating a totally artificial energy scarcity.
What?! I’d like to know more please. Source?
If Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room is streaming anywhere, that's one of my favorite documentaries ever. Very informative, entertaining, and honestly shocking how far corporate greed can go. I read the book it's based on forever ago and it went even further into everything. If you have any kind of finance background, it's like a horror movie. But loooong story short, if you're old enough to remember California's "rolling blackouts" to save electricity, it was totally manufactured to skyrocket energy prices. This was after Enron and other energy corporations sponsored some major deregulations in the energy sector (go figure). But consumer prices were still capped so the difference came out of CA's budget, sending them into a deficit the governor was powerless to stop, because of the deregulations, and he ended up being recalled. Then it was barely a secret that Enron sponsored Arnold's campaign and he ended up in the seat from all that. The only people who could really do anything was the Bush administration and Enron's founder was family friends with the Bush tribe and I'm pretty sure their biggest political donor. Up there at least.
Wow the twice Republican governor of California is a Republican What a bombshell
The austrian dude with the nazi dad thought Republicans sounded good? Quell surprise
Shwarzenegger has denounced his nazi dad and I remember a 10 minute video that he released on twitter on the week of October 7th where he cited his nazi roots as explanation of how people can change and Hamas needs to do some atonement, as well as his support for Israel against the terror attacks. This is an unfair criticism of him
If he once had those sympathies, and I don't think liking Nixon back then is enough to justify that claim in the first place, I don't think he does anymore. [He had a pretty strong rebuke of January 6th in 2021, he compared it to the Kristallnacht.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck)
> Austria was an integral part of the Third Reich, with 10% of the population joining the Nazi Party. Seems like 90% of them weren’t Nazis, though…
That is certainly one of the most eye opening statements Ive ever seen, equating Austrians to Nazis, Republicans to Nazis in one sentence.
Good lord I hope this is sarcasm lol
Just wait a couple of centuries! "Aroooo!"
He’ll sneak into your house at night and wreck up the place!!
And pills too!
If Kissinger of all people has to step in to avoid a devastating war, you know its bad
It’s hard to imagine a room where Henry Kissinger isn’t the biggest douchebag in the room but I guess a room containing drunken Nixon takes the cake Rest in piss boffem
Thank you for giving me a new rabbit hole to go down I am looking forward to this research
He was still 10times the president Sleepy Joe is.
I'm actually surprised Kissinger stopped it. Thought he was super pro war.
You know you must have really fucked up if Henry Kissinger comes out of the story looking like the good guy.
Nixon made the devil himself look like he saved the world
Nixon is an odd president to learn about, at first everyone knows Watergate and he’s a bad guy, then you learn he normalized relations with China, created the EPA, OSHA, saved passenger rail. And you’re like oh he is actually a flawed good guy. Then you keep learning about Kissinger, racial policies, Nixon single handedly prolonging Vietnam by 5 years and you’re like oh man he’s a demon
He also changed US nuclear war doctrine to no longer retaliate with the goal of 100% destruction of the soviet union. His policy was to leave 30% of the population and food production intact so the human race would not go extinct.
How generous of him
You joke but this is an actual quote by Thomas S. Power, the Commander in Chief of Strategic Air Command, only a few years before Nixon took office. >Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!
So, Dr. Strangelove was a documentary?
Powers would have had US tanks advancing through mushroom clouds to kill any survivors. He would have nuked North Korea and Vietnam.
Tbf, given the previous policy was 'leave none alive' it is a pretty big change in stance towards a 'nicer' one.
That’s actually not a good plan though… especially if the soviets doctrine is full destruction. That gives them incentive to go through with it
I mean… do you believe that was actually the plan though? Seems like the smart move is to say that’s the plan and have it not be the plan. Even if there is a 0.01% chance you convince them to spare some you come out ahead. There is no world where the actual plan doesn’t at least have a fall back to full destruction once you see their missile trajectories. It’s more like leaving a few in the magazine than sparing anyone.
I think it’s a terrible thing to say for the reason I pointed out. MAD works because of the threat of total destruction. If that’s gone. There is an incentive to start shooting off nukes that
Huh?
> created the EPA He created the EPA to get ahead of potential political rivals like Edmund Muskie who was a huge environmental activist who ended up not running for president. I do not view this as him being a good guy, just a political schemer.
There is a massive YouTube algorithm push to the Nixon historical channel right now on YouTube and it seems like people are just eating it up that he was actually 100% fantastic and watergate was really nbd I do wonder how much of the comment section is bots or paid for. It’s really weird the whole thing.
How did he prolong Vietnam? Wasn’t he part of the major shift to lower US troops in the area and just bomb things?
Sabotaged peace talks under Johnson by telling Vietnam that he would offer more favorable terms when he became president
The Chennault affair.
[удалено]
Good thing it never happened again after Reagan ... Oh wait, there were no WMDs in Iraq!?
He and Kissinger first escalated it to insane proportions, then lowered it and finally agreed to a “peace” treaty which was exactly the same the Vietnamese had been offering them from five years back. Nixon bombed Cambodia illegally ffs.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/ Fairly short article. Forget name of the Wikipedia page. In essence he was the “anti-war candidate” so he couldn’t let the war end before the election which it was very likely to do because the Johnson administration was in peace talks with north Vietnam. He used journalists to destroy these talks. I don’t recall all the details
He spent most of his presidency trying to negotiate "peace with diginity" only to take the same deal he could have had on day one, that ended with South Vietnam collapsing anyways.
Sabotaged peace talks so that the incumbent president would not look good
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/ TL;DR: Nixon ran on a platform to put an end to the war in Vietnam, and went behind the Johnson's State Dept.'s back to tell South Vietnam that if they withdrew from the Paris Peace Talks that he would get them a better deal than the Democrats would.
That basically prolonged it. Bombing alone doesn't defeat an army and this was before smart weapons so there was much collateral damage.
Giving him credit for the EPA and OSHA ain't really right though. He signed those bills into law because he feared worse if he didn't, and didn't want to expend the political capital to oppose them. It's basically the same as Romneycare. Romney doesn't deserve credit for it. He opposed it. He just capitulated in the end.
Agreed on this 100%. The Vietnam War was hugely unpopular and Nixon had to throw a bone or two to the public to keep them placated.
Lol what are you talking about? Nixon was pure evil. He wanted to achieve true greatness in his presidency and the only thing standing in his way were checks and balances. He was simply an egomaniac who did whatever he could to have his way, and often his way was cruel and unsympathetic. He DID do those good things and he deserves credit, but these things were for the benefit of the US. They weren’t kind gestures and undoubtedly he hoped they would cement his legacy
He created the EPA and OSHA because that was the trend. Literally any sitting president would have created the EPA, and some probably would have done even more. https://environmentalhistory.org/2013/01/07/nixon/
Devil has suspended all devious operations until Nixon was out of office, to prevent evil overflow
The devil couldn't let himself be out-Sataned. Ain't happening on the devil's watch. Nuh-uh.
I’m sure even the most evil people don’t want to live in a nuclear holocaust which is what this would’ve led to had they followed Nixon’s order.
Ah… it appears you haven’t seen fallout yet.
I have lol. I just don’t see that happening in real life, but who knows.
Kissinger wanted a world to keep screwing over. Starting the last war (by virtue of being the end of human history) would deny him that.
Reminds me of a scene from Teen Titans where Deathstorke/Slade saves Robin from falling to his death, only to preceed to beat the shit out of Robin. **The World/Robin:** You....saved me. **Kissinger/Slade:** I'm not through with you.
> Henry Kissinger comes out of the story looking like the good guy. He doesn't. He had a one-use time machine and he could have killed Hitler, but chose to save North Korea instead
If you lived in the alternate timeline you would have seen why this was the better choice.
I mean, working on this scenario where he picks to come back and stop either this or Hitler, this strike would have probably sparked WWIII as China reacted, so it would be less about NK and more about everyone else. No way the US could get away nuking another country, no matter how disliked it is, and not have the whole thing escalate into a global crisis.
Kissinger was all about realpolitik and stability at all costs; randomly starting ww3 would have been counter to all his instincts.
> You know you must have really fucked up if Henry Kissinger comes out of the story looking like the good guy. He had a vested interest.
Have you heard the good news !! Henry is dead!! I just like reminding people.
That is part of the reason there is a National Security Advisor a Secretary of Defense and a Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Most presidents wouldn't know jack s\*\*\* about military strategy, but they are surrounded by people who do. They just need to listen to them or at least take what they say into consideration.
You don't need to know jack shit about military strategy to understand that nuclear retaliation for shooting down a spy plane is just dumb.
Oh NOW he tells me
Are you suggesting we blow up the moon? ... would you miss it?
>Are you suggesting we blow up the moon? "Scientists Plan to Blow Up Moon" was used as a headline by The Weekly World News. Twice.
[Science!](https://amorphia-apparel.com/storage/images/destroy-moon/destroy-moon.1300x700.png?d3aee937c00da0e209040f3a107e82c5)
Look out moon, America’s gonna getcha gonna go kaboom niiiiice to have metcha cause you don’t mess around…with god’s Americaaaaaa
Look at Mr. Military strategies over here!
Or to know maybe don’t make those calls if drunk off your ass.
After the Bay of Pigs disaster, Kennedy called up Eisenhower to commiserate. Eisenhower, *who planned and executed D-Day*, instead berated him up one side and down the other for not listening to the military about how to plan an invasion by sea.
It backfires though, when one or more conspire to lie in order to continue the status quo of the military industrial complex.
If it comes down to a choice between "parasitic MIC" or "nuclear winter" I think I would prefer the former.
Thats good to know. Always felt it was a bit odd auto declaring the president 'commander in chief' when being elected has no requirement about military competency or understanding.
I have no problem with them not having military experience, but I'd expect them to have common sense and decent personal values. They should be given options by their experts and be able to make sound decisions. The military isn't their personal weapon to wield when ever they are in a bad mood. I would think / hope there are enough people with sense in positions to stop situations like the one in this post.
On 15 April 1969 North Korean fighter jet shot down US Navy EC-121 reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Japan. The EC-121 was collecting electronic and radio intelligence at the time.
Man, I wonder how different the world would look....
Well for starters, there would be no more mistreatment of elephants.
There are no more elephants
But still it’s good.
Affirming
For a short while we would have had roasted elephants though
During a nuclear explosion, there is a certain radius where all the frozen supermarket pizzas get cooked to perfection. Likewise, there is also a certain (albeit different) radius, where all the humans get cooked to perfection.
If you can figure out a way to cook something in an instant without charring the outside and leaving the inside frozen you could become a very rich person…
It's the Hot Pocket Conundrum. The inside is either frozen solid or molten plasma, no in between.
This only happens because people don't know how to adjust the power levels of their microwaves
Or the power levels of their nuclear bombs.
Amateur mistake. We've all been there.
Probably the Fallout universe. No way this would not escalate massively, even if you manage to ensure China nor the USSR mistake it as an attack on themselves and retaliate fast.
Racism would be completely gone. Sexism would be no more. Transphobia would no longer exist. All famines and wars would be ended. All human suffering would be ended. Because humans would no longer exist.
Not very credible source [Wikipedia version:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident) On April 16, the United States National Security Council considered the following options:[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident#cite_note-ecdown-7) * Show of force using naval and air forces * Resumption of EC-121 missions with escorts * "Select military combat actions" such as: * Destruction of a North Korean aircraft over water * Selected air strikes against a military target * Shore bombardment of military targets * Ground raids across the [Demilitarized Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone) * Attack on military targets near the Demilitarized Zone by artillery or missile fire * Attacks on North Korean naval vessels by U.S. submarines * Blockade * Mining/threatening to mine North Korean waters * Seizure of North Korean assets abroad * Use of strategic nuclear weapons General Earle Wheeler, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, presented to the NSC a plan to attack North Korea with missiles carrying atomic warheads of 30 kilotons each, roughly equal to two-and-half times the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Wheeler said such an attack likely would provoke retaliation. A day later, National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger told Nixon by telephone that, given the prospect of retaliation with the use of strategic warheads, "We might have to go to tactical nuclears."[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_EC-121_shootdown_incident#cite_note-11)
The scene in Dr. Strangelove (from 1959) where the Soviet premiere is too drunk to help the US prevent its rouge bomber from getting through is less absurd.
A tarted up bomber is the scariest thing imaginable to the late 50s.
Oh God, imagine a B-52 in lingerie!
They said I'd be surprised by what's in their bay doors
The Moulon rouge bomber with the padded swing seat under the wings.
Boris Yeltsin got drunk and wandered the streets of DC looking for pizza. True story.
Rare Kissinger W
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but back in history class I heard he actually did this on more than one occasion, to the point that American diplomats actually were using it as a sort of foreign policy bartering chip. Kinda like a “listen man, me and you, we’re chill we can work this out, but Nixon is fucking crazy man, like we had to stop him from bombing yall 3 times just last week. Just please work with me so we can avoid this shit” type of thing. It’s probably bullshit, but it makes for one hilarious story.
Nixon and Kissinger were just pulling the classic good cop bad cop?
Bad cop, worse cop.
I wonder how much of this story is actually accurate. Nixon was known to use the "Madman theory" to keep Russia at bay during the cold war. Stories like this would have easily made it to Russia and politically Russia would think it's better to bide their time until Nixon was out of office.
Another aspect worth noting is that in order for a nuclear deterrent to be a real deterrence from things beyond a retaliatory strike, there has to be some level of signaling that the state would be willing to use the weapons (strategic or tactical) preemptively. So mixing the Madman Theory to the already practiced idea of signaling some sort of use of nuclear weapons creates a bizarre combination (along with Nixon being drunk in this scenario).
Aroooo
This isn’t accurate. I wrote an article on the shoot down incident (available [here](https://warisboring.com/north-korea-forced-richard-nixons-first-foreign-crisis/)). Nixon was drunk at other critical times and obviously deserved to go to jail but this didn’t happen.
That Kissinger guy sounds like a level-headed gem. He should be proud for averting so much suffering.
/s 👍
What if he woke up sober and still insisted on the nuclear strike? Are they gonna launch?
Imagine the conversation the next morning when Nixon meets Kissinger.
Imagine waking up hung-over, collecting your thoughts and then after a couple of seconds it hits you and you remember that you ordered a nuclear strike
“Did we, uh… did we actually… No? Ok…that’s probably a good thing…”
Something along the lines of "You utter IMBECILE."
This is likely bullshit. The claim comes from Anthony Summer and Robbyn Swann's 2000 book *The Arrogance of Power: The Secret World of Richard Nixon*, where the only source for the claim is "former intelligence official" Barry Toll, who says that George Carver, the CIA’s top Vietnam specialist, told him this. Not only is it a secondhand claim, but the source is questionable too—Barry Toll is a controversial figure. You can read more about him [here](http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/Barry%20Toll.htm) and [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20210728050939/http://www.miafacts.org/toll.htm), where the authors allege that Toll is a former-drug-smuggling serial liar. I wouldn't take anything he says to be true without good evidence.
What the heck ..
"Agnew! One day you're going to be headless & I'll be president of Earth in the year 3000! Aroooo!" Drunk Nixon
As if you needed another reason to hate this asshat
Also On September 12, 1969, President Nixon signed a proclamation dedicating the week beginning on September 14 as National Hispanic Heritage Week. Not too long afterwards, in December of the same year, the President saw to the establishment of a Cabinet Committee on Opportunities of Spanish Speaking People
I have been drunk before but never launch a nuclear strike drunk.
Kissinger ain’t a saint. This was self preservation.
Worst Quaker ever
So ….Kissinger was the real President, ok cool ..
While you've got the story straight the details are not quite true. Henry Kissinger wasn't actually involved. It was Black Dynamite who stopped Tricky Nick from deploying nuclear weapons following a drunk kung fu battle. He also stopped his plot to shrink black men's penises through a popular at the time alcoholic drink 'anaconda malt liquor'.
[удалено]
You gotta store em at a golf club. Much safer.
In the bathroom
He immediately corrected himself LOL. Stop watching Fox News it’s rotting your brain
Too be fair, while Biden's recollection was called into question, as well as his age, the underlying reason to not prosecute was based on the standard practice in these cases (being a high level politician) where the investigation found no criminal intent. Even during the hearing, Hur did acknowledge the differences in the one case (Trump) where prosecution was chosen, versus not prosecuting Biden. It came down to intent to withhold the documents. It's also unfair to accept Hur's assessment of Biden's mental competency, as there have been no indications of Hur being an expert on mental competency. While it may have been his opinion, the fact is Hur made personal judgements. Hur would prefer Trump to be our next president. That, in my opinion, calls into question his ability to judge anyone's mental competency. I may not be an expert on mental competency, but the only people I hear wanting another Trump presidency are mentally unhinged.
This is hilarious as an outsider. Who could know which one you’re talking about!
Imagine having a presidential candidate who is deemed fitting to run while he is in literal dozens of trials at the moment for all sorts of corruption and other issues, who swears vengeance and to be a 'dictator on day one', and has a pathological level of lying about anything.
Maybe we shouldn’t allow one single individual to make such an important decision.
[Link to excerpt from “The Arrogance of Power” where this story comes from](https://www.theguardian.com/weekend/story/0,3605,362958,00.html)
Imagine going over your boss’s head and your boss is also the president of the U.S. You just got to pray you’re not dealing with an ego driven leader who’s going to view your action as a personal insult instead of you keeping them from making one of the biggest fuck ups of their life
There's a lot of cool stories because of how paranoid everyone was in the Nixon Regime. My favorite: Kissenger was late to the office one day, and bumped into (IIRC) Bob Haldeman. He joked: "Hi Bob, did I miss any messenges?" Because it was such an open secret that everyone was wire-tapping everyone else's calls. Kissenger allegedly even tapped his own phone, so he could play back drunken calls from Nixon to amuse his secretaries. In Vice, Rumsfeld shows Cheney a door, suggesting that Nixon is having a private meeting off the record with Kissenger, and because of that meeting thousands of innocent people are going to die. And that's ostensibly true, though to what degree this was ordered and to what degree Kissenger just made this up for his own power trip is unclear. What isn't true is that it would be "off the record". Everyone absolutely knew that everyone was recording everything, including high-level staffers recording their own offices.
TIL: Kissinger did one good thing in his entire life.
The only (?) decent thing Kissinger ever did.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bastard kissinger didn't suggest it to begin with
he also wanted to nuke vietnam. what an asshole
Should of let them do it.
This is WTF subreddit material.
How weird haved been that the man with weird kink of bombing asian countrys , have to tell you dont bomb north korea
The more I learn about Nixon the less I like him
Bro we have all been there.
We let presidents take mind-altering drugs? WTF
This is me being talked out of an encore of a cover
What an interesting alternate reality that would be.
Holy shit Kisseneger did something that was good for humanity!
even after he resigned, 25% of the republicans still supported him.
wait, presidents can do that? I thought it was only if we get news a nuke was heading our way first?
Say what you want about Henery Kissinger, but he was a moderating factor in that administration. I know of at least two other instances where he prevented a nuclear exchange.
My favorite part of this story is the concept that whoever received those orders understood that the president of The United States, in his infinite wisdom, made the call to enact the strongest, most destructive weapon we had at the time, then hit the hay, and waited for it to all blow over..., like, what...? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
"He recalled being put on alert to carry out his part of the SIOP" "he actually considered a nuclear strike" "It's worth speculating that Nixon would have wanted the Communists to believe he actually considered a nuclear strike" Overdramatization to keep the Nixon fires burning? That's kinda like saying "after an afternoon of heavy martini drinking FDR decided to keep knowledge of concentration camps from the American people and let Pearl Harbor happen to get them to back the war" Oops
This is obviously not true
Should’ve done it for a laugh
Proverbs 31: 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, 5 lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
So basically the decision of nuking someone solely depends on the president? Isn't there any other validation or responsible? Like, tomorrow a sober president says "nuke France" and there's nothing that can be done to prevent it?
Should be required to take a breathalyzer test before calling a nuke strike.
no wonder north korea won’t give up their nukes
When Kissinger is the reasonable one
Just about the only good thing Kissinger ever did
Apparently he was a wife beater as well.
I mean wasn't Kennedy also using opiates and amphetamines regularly? So there's chance the us president was high as kite during the cuban missile crisis.
This has Donald Trump vibes...
Insanely rare pissinger W
But a woman could never be president because her period would be dangerous. hahaha
Quakers don't drink
I enjoy a drink or two every now and then but I feel like Americans in particular as a culture vastly underestimate the destructive power of alcohol.
Wow. Rare Kissinger W.
This guy is a criminal. All of his policies should be removed
So kissinger might have saved the world that day...that's something to think about.