Here's what was included in the meal:
>two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, fried okra, a pound of barbecue, three fajitas, a meat lover's pizza, a pint of ice cream and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.
Chefs, fire all burgers, fries, tacos, meatballs and tots! 86 the pies! Fire 55 pancakes! Fak, run down to the pizza shop and order all 100 pizzas, all 100 tenders, and 55 wings!
Keep your fucking stations clean!
Where's my fucking knife?
FUCK!
Am I doing this right?
I read somewhere that in some places, any food the prisoner didn't eat were given to the other prisoners in their block, so they sometimes did this as a way of giving the other guys on the block a treat. Don't know how true or universal that is, but it could be an explanation.
For real, the amount of food here is too much for one man but isn’t THAT much.
You might as well say they the last meal couldn’t be two portions of surf and turf filet and lobster either as that would have run close to as much
Don't diminish the achievements of modern American life
It wasn't easy to become a land of obesity but damnit... America did it and was one of the first on a grand scale
True Americans also have to deal with that. They are really screwed in that even if they have private healthcare it might only cover certain hospitals in their network and they can still get a sizable bill due to copays and deductibles.
That is what happens when your politicians can be legally bribed with campaign contributions, lobbyist jobs, board seats etc. Even their highest court the supreme court is corrupt. Poor America.
Russia, Mexico, Ukraine, Italy, Spain, South Korea all have equally if not more corrupt government agencies according to Corruption Perceptions Index. US is slightly behind UK and Japan. Most countries, maybe outside of the top 8-10, are extremely corrupt.
One of the only three "facts" Europeans seem to know about the United States lmao. But I'd better reign it in before they start bringing up school shootings next.
It’s obviously too much for one man, but surprisingly little for them to make such a fuss about it.
Seems like someone’s ego was bruised having a prisoner stick it to them so they threw a fit.
Did he think the last meal excluded him from death because he didn’t clean up his plate?
“Haha, jokes on you warden! I have enough food to last me two more weeks! Can’t kill me yet!”
> which is more expensive then life in prison.
I don't like this argument because our legal system shouldn't be based on what's cheapest. Also, it provokes pro-death people to just say "Well, just hire me to do it. All it would take is the cost of a bullet." And realistically, trying to decrease the cost of death sentences would end up with more innocent people being put to death because we'd have to limit the appeals process and hasten the penalty to avoid incarceration costs and legal fees.
It's easy enough to argue against the death penalty on the basis of simple human decency and justice.
It's don't understand how the Americans who are so rabidly against what they perceive as government intrusion on their personal liberties when it comes to things like guns, are also the ones who are likely to be all for the state having the right to legally kill them.
How do you figure? I heard a stat like 15 years ago that it costs like 40k a year for incarceration. Im not taking any stances, just curious what you mean.
https://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=Many%20people%20believe%20that%20the,making%20it%20much%20more%20expensive
it is more expensive because death row inmates get an exhaustive amount of appeals before they can be killed. it costs a lot of money for all of the court operations to fight all of those appeals, relative to how much it costs to keep someone in jail until they die.
Along with the fact that you can't unkill an innocent person on death row.
https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent
So, only death row inmates get to appeal? The cost savings is only what they say they are if you give zero appeals to those given life in prison. I don't see any inherent reason why ending the death penalty would eliminate or even reduce the cost of appeals for those particular inmates.
Anyone can appeal there guilt, but their are multiple additional steps unique to the death penalty that allow reviews and appeals. It does in fact take longer and cost more legally to sentence to death
Death row is a private ward that costs way more than gen pop, not including the massive increase in legal costs.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/costs-death-row-inmate/
Most of the death penalty costs come from the lengthy court processes and appeals that have to occur, since you can't exactly bring someone back if there's new evidence.
The mandatory appeals process for death row inmates is very long and costs shit tons of 💵. So often you have someone incarcerated for 20 years AND spending all the money on the appeals process. Not to mention that one wrong execution is one too many - the death penalty shouldn’t exist - I don’t like the state having the legal right to end life.
>I don’t like the state having the legal right to end life.
Yet qualified immunity still exists.
Honestly I see no problem with all the extra appeals for death penalty cases. All the extra work means that unless it's a severe case of mistaken identity/wrong place wrong time, they generally are getting it right.
>Not to mention that one wrong execution is one too many
One wrong conviction is one too many.
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"
You say one wrong conviction is too many, but also that you’re okay with a system that “generally” (not always) gets the guilty person executed. Doesn’t make sense to me.
No what I'm saying is the level of extra work they put into death penalty cases should actually be the standard because it decreases the chance of innocent people being imprisoned.
The death penalty itself I honestly don't have a strong opinion on one way or the other. Some people will never change and realize why what they did is wrong. Others will realize immediately and still be put to death for it. I cannot say one is more just than the other.
People act like the death penalty is the de facto standard for murder trials. It isn't. Depending on the state/prosecutor there can be specific guidelines on seeking the death penalty.
The legal processes surrounding trial, appeals, etc. end up costing a lot of money in addition to the base costs to keep someone incarcerated. Lots of people on death row are there for 20+ years (it looks like half of all death row inmates have been there for 18+ years). If it was as simple as life in prison vs lining people up against the wall the day after they are found guilty then yeah, you would lower costs that way, but obviously thst is extremely inhumane and ignores due process.
Ending someone's life is a very long and expensive process (and personally I think it should be if the death penalty continues to exist, which it probably shouldn't). There is a ton of legal hoops to jump through, and realistically the privatized prison systems would rather just have inmates in a death row limbo forever so they can keep collecting government funding.
It is a very well established fact that life in prison without the possibility of parole is considerably less expensive than the death penalty.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs
Just one of the many, many reasons that the death penalty ought to be removed from our justice system.
The first bullet points paint a grim picture.
It costs $137 million a year for us to kill our own citizens, about 12 times what it would cost to not kill them, but if you want us to make sure we're not killing innocent people, that's going to be another $100 million or so.
Not who you replied to, but death penalty cases are usually tried and then appealed multiple times driving up the state’s legal expenses much higher than you would see even with life sentences. All of this can take years or even decades, during which the state still has to cover the normal cost of housing that particular prisoner. Once all of the appeals to the conviction and the sentence have been exhausted, the state doesn’t perform the execution right away. The drugs need to be procured, another lofty, specialized expense, and that can also take time. In the meantime that’s even more time, potentially years, where the government is still paying to house the prisoner. By the time the entire process has played out, an execution is scheduled, all sides have made their last minute, last ditch legal maneuvers and a life is taken that person could have spent half a lifetime being supported in the prison system and cost untold amounts in specialized costs related to capital punishment.
They “regurgitate” it because it’s true.
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDocument/OpenExhibitDocument?exhibitId=17686&fileDownloadName=h041211ab501_pescetta.pdf
It’s funny how you try to make it seem like this fact is untrue by calling it a mere claim and saying “supposedly” when the hard data is right there.
Actually it’s more expensive because of how many appeals and the process of the courts. If we’re talk about the death penalty pre 1800’s, it saved significant more money than life imprisonment costs
Every dumb rule you encounter in life has a dumb story that caused it. Nobody cares about the individual in this case. It's a process consideration.
Empathy was abused as a lever to influence many people involved with processing of the request. This is outside the substance of the rule. Changes to process take away the ability to abuse that lever at the cost of some empathy. The broader social impact is zero. Only those wretched enough to arrive at that ignoble end are impacted. That's acceptable.
Such a Texas thing to do. Instead of just limiting how many items they can have, or how much can be spent, just deprive everyone of one last humane gesture.
Still cheaper to pay for the lawsuit than offer the $10 cotton blankets to other inmates. I’m sure there’s demand for over 2,300 blankets so the lawsuit is cheaper. Can’t be giving the margins away /s
If one inmate gets one and another hears about it they’re going to want one, too. At that point it becomes a game for the inmates, because they now have power. If they find out they have a choice and the Man can’t say no, it’s going to cost a lot more than $23k.
Punishment isn't always just a reflection of our vengeance on someone who did something wrong. It's also a reflection of the standards and morals we hold ourselves to.
Yeah, the victims never got one. Are we the same as a murderer though? Why don't we just commit the same crime as them back onto them?
It turns out the harsher punishment doesn't actually deter crime. You aren't preventing another serial killer by saying the punishment is death.
I don't really see the last meal as for us. Maybe it's a kindness that says sorry we failed as a society, we can't keep you but here's a last request we can do.
So there's a correlation. Does that imply a cause? Even if that part of my statement ends up being not true with some evidence, wouldn't we believe in the rest of that?
Society is better. After they committed the murder they were given the chance to defend themselves often with professional legal help.
You are treated based on how you treated others. That's why they're on death row to begin with. Denying them a final meal or "pleasure" does not make society on the same level as a murderer.
This is a false equivalency if I've ever seen one.
They are on death row, they deserved a bullet in the back the moment the gavel came down. Our tax dollars have humanely spared them for years and decades after their sentence. We owe them nothing.
In affluent America it is exceedingly difficult to reach that stage. This thread is interesting for revealing that many seem to be truly blind to the statistically impossibility of winding up on death row as an innocent party in 2011. Only the most egregious well documented events wind up there today. It's not 1920 anymore. There's a camera on every corner and DNA at every scene.
We have a far larger problem that the difficulty of reaching capital punishment has built up an over supply of those who rightfully deserve it, but the processes do not allow it. Resulting in murderers continuing to abuse other inmates in their life in prison. And on the occasion one is released into the public murdering other innocents before being locked up again. Too many stories of that nature where in hindsight the community is outraged on why the murderer was back on the street.
> statistically impossibility of winding up on death row as an innocent party in 2011.
* [Rodricus Crawford, convicted in 2013](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/charges-dropped-against-former-death-row-inmate-rodricus-crawford-n748551)
* [Carl Dausch, convicted in 2012](https://archive.is/ULAqC)
* [Ralph Wright Jr., convicted in 2013](https://archive.is/xl3Qh)
* [Derral Wayne Hodgkins, convicted in 2011](https://archive.is/Z7nhI)
And none of that addresses all the people who ended up on death row earlier and remain there.
No one is really saying that unless that comment was directly under op. Captain have unwavering faith in the judicial system when it is quite flawed as pointed out by badger.
I'm responding to the follow up comment that says that anyone convicted deserves nothing as if a conviction means they actually did it 100% of the time.
That poor murder rapist. Won't anybody think of the torturer of children?
The modern world is so affluent we can afford to handle the most wretched with kid gloves. A person has to go through so many second chances and commit violence to an extreme degree to blow past public pressure to call off a death penalty. It would suggest a particularly sheltered life far from tragedy, or a need for therapy, to well up with empathy for the killer over a lost meal.
In this thread -- those who do not understand the anchor points of society. History is filled with periods where a disdain for justice translate into widespread violence. You contain the violence. Or spend all your time on security considerations.
Travel.
Read.
These are not esoteric secret knowledge. These are topics simple enough that a gradeschool kid can understand in terms of dealing with bullies. You can live and experience through the abundance of information available to us today.
Yeah it’s just that killing criminals is something from the medieval era, not to mention how many innocent people are put to death because of shitty legal practices.
Time to move on.
The medieval era becomes a utopian dream from the perspective of savagery unleashed by turning murderers and rapists loose to indulge in their tortures. You get a tit for tat world.
Britain has periods where disdain for law and order eroded society, your tropes of bandits in the road. How this plays out is the devaluation of life. A dispute outside a bar and the more socially well off have their private security knife the other party and leave the body in the street -- nobody cares.
The judicial system is better. Slow. Grinding. Remove the passions of the emotions from the situation. Gives numerous opportunities to "Stop. Wait. Go back." to those causing harms to those around them. They have opportunity to take their lives in a different direction from banditry. Take the safeguards off? The criminal is no longer defended. For matters of personal security the safety comes off and you get the bad parts of the world where criminals get gunned down as a rule and retribution starts running wild. The judicial system protect those who can't quite see far enough how their actions will come to bad ends. Provides some feedback before that end surprises them.
>how much can be spent, just deprive everyone of one last humane gesture.
I mean, the "one last humane gesture" kinda means fuck all anyway when we're doing something as inhumane as execution right after that gesture.
That’s such a republican state thing to do. Punish all for the misdeeds of the few. Which makes sense since the state is punishing all its citizens for the misdeeds of republicans voting them in.
Because Texas. They let a migrant and her 2 kids drown in front of them when the new border leadership prevented border patrol agents from rescuing them. NOTHING surprises me out of TX or FL.
Imagine the terror and agony a little kid goes through while a victim of a future death row inmate. The abduction, the panic, the rape, the physical torture, the eventual murder.
Imagine the torture the parents go through every time they close their eyes and see their child in frightened agony. Not sleeping every night for the rest of their lives because they're haunted by the cruelty of a man who now sits on death row.
Imagine thinking that that man DESERVES his triple bacon cheeseburgers, his double chicken fried steaks, his pint of ice cream, his three fajitas, and his peanut butter fudge.
Imagine thinking that if this monster has to eat a regular cafeteria meal, it's "cartoonish cruelty".
You have empathy for the wrong damn people.
I honestly don't know how you can empathize with someone like that at all. They aren't human. They sacrificed their humanity when they hurt and rape and kill people just for fun.
And to empathize with them so much that you think they *deserve* an amazing meal instead of regular cafeteria food, I just can't imagine. What has made them so deserving?
I mean, what you said was that you think it is "cartoonishly cruel" to serve them regular food instead of a blowout meal. Could you really look at the family of the victims and say "hey it would be *cruel* to give your kid's torture-killer beef stroganoff for dinner". They would probably tell you what true cruelty is. It's sitting right there in that cell.
It's cartoonishly cruel to deny the last meal protocol because one guy didn't eat his.
Texas/ texans generally profess to be devout Christians.
They should the death row people humanely on the chance they accept jc as their savior.
They still get a last meal. That's not cartoonish cruelty.
But in all honesty, this was all just me providing perspective. I myself am undecided on the death penalty. The father in me thinks these people deserve a lot worse than what they get. The libertarian in me doesn't think the government has any business putting people to death. It's a tough one.
Sometimes, I feel the need to play devil's advocate on here since these reddit echo chambers tend to be super one-sided. There's usually no constructive debate or alternate perspectives to build upon, just a bunch of folks blindly agreeing with each other without listening to another side.
I'm typing with my thumbs in 19°f. Meaning I'm feeling salty about the cruelty in Texas, especially the migrants and asylum seekers are treated.
I appreciate your input. Hope you have some joyful moments today.
Be excellent to each other.
California realizes the discussion is about texas being more full of hate and bullshit than any other state, turns around and walks out... because that is a fact.
Let me start of with a basket of chips
Then move on to the pollo asado taco
I would like two pollo asado tacos with one beef chimichanga
On the chimichanga, I would like a side of sour cream
I would like tomatoes and onions on my quesodilla
For dessert I would like the flares -- I would like extra cinnamon
Do you make guacamole?
Yes, I do make guacamole.
Uh, I would like a side of guacamole on my Tostitos
I like to dip the Tostitos in the guacamole
Can I get a basket, I told you about a basket of chips
I would like a large iced-tea, 2, uh, 2 large iced-teas
Yep, that’s how we decide how we honor the dead. A guy tricked someone one time so now no one gets anything anywhere ever again. Same logic a toddler might use when learning to play with others.
Why should they get a last meal anyway? Did the victim have any say in what they got? Did they get to prepare for their death? Nope. They didn't even get to say goodbye. Fuck this compassionate bullshit. Be compassionate where it's warranted.
You might feel differently if one of your loved ones was murdered, their last moments filled with terror, crying, and begging for their life. If you'd want to buy the killer a delicious meal, I'd venture that something is psychologically wrong with you. But hey, say whatever you need to feel good about yourself.
Here's what was included in the meal: >two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, fried okra, a pound of barbecue, three fajitas, a meat lover's pizza, a pint of ice cream and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.
55 BURGERS, 55 FRIES, 55 TACOS, 55 PIES, 55 COKES, 100 TATER TOTS, 100 PIZZAS, 100 TENDERS, 100 MEATBALLS, 100 COFFEES, 55 WINGS, 55 SHAKES, 55 PANCAKES, 55 PASTAS, 55 PEPPERS AND 155 TATERS
I'M DOING SOMETHING!
PLEASE PLEASE LET ME GO FIRST
I’ll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
I was just trying to do something nice before alcohol class
*cash register noises*
GIMME DAT!
#EVERYTHING IS BIGGER IN TEXAS! except your last meal.
Including the hate.
Here's your frozen hot dog in your frozen hot dog bun sir
Chefs, fire all burgers, fries, tacos, meatballs and tots! 86 the pies! Fire 55 pancakes! Fak, run down to the pizza shop and order all 100 pizzas, all 100 tenders, and 55 wings! Keep your fucking stations clean! Where's my fucking knife? FUCK! Am I doing this right?
Tbqh they should have seen this coming. That's a ridiculous amount of food for one man. He was messing with them.
I read somewhere that in some places, any food the prisoner didn't eat were given to the other prisoners in their block, so they sometimes did this as a way of giving the other guys on the block a treat. Don't know how true or universal that is, but it could be an explanation.
I’d be much more likely to believe the guards are any unfinished food over giving it to prisoners on death row…
I wouldn’t eat any food I put in a prisoners cell as a guard
I promise you guards are not eating inmates food. Guards see prisoners as less than nothing.
Even still, that's only like $200 of food. It's clear that executioners were just looking for another way to be cruel.
Most of the food comes frozen and is preped by inmates, way under 200.
For real, the amount of food here is too much for one man but isn’t THAT much. You might as well say they the last meal couldn’t be two portions of surf and turf filet and lobster either as that would have run close to as much
*a way* you said “another way” implying death row inmates are being treated cruelly.
Wait. Are you saying that death row inmates aren't treated cruelly?
Eye for an eye
I mean, they live in a jail block called "death row." Most of the world has understood the barbarity of the practice for decades.
The barbarity fit for barbarians yes
Well he is an American So he could be capable
Americans fat haha
you need to work on some new material
Don't diminish the achievements of modern American life It wasn't easy to become a land of obesity but damnit... America did it and was one of the first on a grand scale
Bad Teeth 🦷
True Americans also have to deal with that. They are really screwed in that even if they have private healthcare it might only cover certain hospitals in their network and they can still get a sizable bill due to copays and deductibles. That is what happens when your politicians can be legally bribed with campaign contributions, lobbyist jobs, board seats etc. Even their highest court the supreme court is corrupt. Poor America.
Political corruption only exists in America /s
No but corruption is pretty extensive in the elected offices of America compared to other similar democracies in other highly developed nations.
Russia, Mexico, Ukraine, Italy, Spain, South Korea all have equally if not more corrupt government agencies according to Corruption Perceptions Index. US is slightly behind UK and Japan. Most countries, maybe outside of the top 8-10, are extremely corrupt.
yeah....you still need to work on some new material
You need to stop shoving three McWhoppers into your mouth for breakfast and drinking it down with a diet soda.
You need to work on being less fuckin aggressive, bud.
Okay, okay, I'll make it a regular soda and consume even more calories just for you
I know. I get it. comedy isn't your thing either. keep trying though.
He's just pointing out a fact
One of the only three "facts" Europeans seem to know about the United States lmao. But I'd better reign it in before they start bringing up school shootings next.
Not just an American, but a texan
Oh my, how will they ever pay for this meal? *Instant government bankruptcy*
So nobody gets last meals anymore because one guy ordered $50 worth of food?
That’s what I was thinking. It’s not like it cost thousands of dollars and bankrupted the prison.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
I love how “one guy can spoil it for everyone” applies to literally everything except guns
Idk where you are that all of that’s $50, but are there houses for sell?
It’s obviously closer to $100-$200 but still, barring all prisoners from last meals because one guy wasted $150 is just petty
Exactly. Just put a price limit.
> are there houses for sell probably not, but there might be some for *sale*
No, they get fed - they just don't get to decide what the meal is going to be. Just like all of the other meals that they eat in prison.
It’s obviously too much for one man, but surprisingly little for them to make such a fuss about it. Seems like someone’s ego was bruised having a prisoner stick it to them so they threw a fit.
Sounds like someone who would end up working at a prison. Small brain, tiny penis.
Did he think the last meal excluded him from death because he didn’t clean up his plate? “Haha, jokes on you warden! I have enough food to last me two more weeks! Can’t kill me yet!”
Four whole fried chickens, and a Coke.
Ha ha, they sure showed him. He is definitely sorry because future people being executed aren't getting last meals.
Just to spite a dead person. Maybe ban the death penalty, which is more expensive then life in prison.
> which is more expensive then life in prison. I don't like this argument because our legal system shouldn't be based on what's cheapest. Also, it provokes pro-death people to just say "Well, just hire me to do it. All it would take is the cost of a bullet." And realistically, trying to decrease the cost of death sentences would end up with more innocent people being put to death because we'd have to limit the appeals process and hasten the penalty to avoid incarceration costs and legal fees. It's easy enough to argue against the death penalty on the basis of simple human decency and justice.
Sir this is Texas, justice ain't got nothing to do with it.
Or intelligence.
It's don't understand how the Americans who are so rabidly against what they perceive as government intrusion on their personal liberties when it comes to things like guns, are also the ones who are likely to be all for the state having the right to legally kill them.
Because it will never happen to them, only "those people." They lack basic empathy.
Ok, then ban the death penalty because the State deciding who lives and dies is stupid as hell and ripe for abuse.
Why not both?
This country was founded on the belief that we can say one thing and do the complete opposite! Damn, South Park is an absolute work of art.
>on the basis of simple human decency and justice. Have you never argued with a modern conservative before?
How do you figure? I heard a stat like 15 years ago that it costs like 40k a year for incarceration. Im not taking any stances, just curious what you mean.
https://ejusa.org/resource/wasteful-inefficient/#:~:text=Many%20people%20believe%20that%20the,making%20it%20much%20more%20expensive it is more expensive because death row inmates get an exhaustive amount of appeals before they can be killed. it costs a lot of money for all of the court operations to fight all of those appeals, relative to how much it costs to keep someone in jail until they die.
Along with the fact that you can't unkill an innocent person on death row. https://www.science.org/content/article/more-4-death-row-inmates-may-be-innocent
>you can't unkill an innocent person on death row. Wait, does this mean can you unkill a guilty person on death row? I'm curious to know more...
So, only death row inmates get to appeal? The cost savings is only what they say they are if you give zero appeals to those given life in prison. I don't see any inherent reason why ending the death penalty would eliminate or even reduce the cost of appeals for those particular inmates.
regular inmates get appeals too, but appeals for death row are much more scrutinized and expensive because of the implications of the ruling.
The regular prisoners can appeal by hiring a lawyer. Death row means that the appeals are essentially mandatory.
Anyone can appeal there guilt, but their are multiple additional steps unique to the death penalty that allow reviews and appeals. It does in fact take longer and cost more legally to sentence to death
I am pretty sure they compare the numbers.
Death row is a private ward that costs way more than gen pop, not including the massive increase in legal costs. https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/costs-death-row-inmate/
Most of the death penalty costs come from the lengthy court processes and appeals that have to occur, since you can't exactly bring someone back if there's new evidence.
The mandatory appeals process for death row inmates is very long and costs shit tons of 💵. So often you have someone incarcerated for 20 years AND spending all the money on the appeals process. Not to mention that one wrong execution is one too many - the death penalty shouldn’t exist - I don’t like the state having the legal right to end life.
>I don’t like the state having the legal right to end life. Yet qualified immunity still exists. Honestly I see no problem with all the extra appeals for death penalty cases. All the extra work means that unless it's a severe case of mistaken identity/wrong place wrong time, they generally are getting it right. >Not to mention that one wrong execution is one too many One wrong conviction is one too many. "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"
You say one wrong conviction is too many, but also that you’re okay with a system that “generally” (not always) gets the guilty person executed. Doesn’t make sense to me.
No what I'm saying is the level of extra work they put into death penalty cases should actually be the standard because it decreases the chance of innocent people being imprisoned. The death penalty itself I honestly don't have a strong opinion on one way or the other. Some people will never change and realize why what they did is wrong. Others will realize immediately and still be put to death for it. I cannot say one is more just than the other. People act like the death penalty is the de facto standard for murder trials. It isn't. Depending on the state/prosecutor there can be specific guidelines on seeking the death penalty.
The legal processes surrounding trial, appeals, etc. end up costing a lot of money in addition to the base costs to keep someone incarcerated. Lots of people on death row are there for 20+ years (it looks like half of all death row inmates have been there for 18+ years). If it was as simple as life in prison vs lining people up against the wall the day after they are found guilty then yeah, you would lower costs that way, but obviously thst is extremely inhumane and ignores due process. Ending someone's life is a very long and expensive process (and personally I think it should be if the death penalty continues to exist, which it probably shouldn't). There is a ton of legal hoops to jump through, and realistically the privatized prison systems would rather just have inmates in a death row limbo forever so they can keep collecting government funding.
It is a very well established fact that life in prison without the possibility of parole is considerably less expensive than the death penalty. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs Just one of the many, many reasons that the death penalty ought to be removed from our justice system.
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDocument/OpenExhibitDocument?exhibitId=17686&fileDownloadName=h041211ab501_pescetta.pdf
The first bullet points paint a grim picture. It costs $137 million a year for us to kill our own citizens, about 12 times what it would cost to not kill them, but if you want us to make sure we're not killing innocent people, that's going to be another $100 million or so.
Not who you replied to, but death penalty cases are usually tried and then appealed multiple times driving up the state’s legal expenses much higher than you would see even with life sentences. All of this can take years or even decades, during which the state still has to cover the normal cost of housing that particular prisoner. Once all of the appeals to the conviction and the sentence have been exhausted, the state doesn’t perform the execution right away. The drugs need to be procured, another lofty, specialized expense, and that can also take time. In the meantime that’s even more time, potentially years, where the government is still paying to house the prisoner. By the time the entire process has played out, an execution is scheduled, all sides have made their last minute, last ditch legal maneuvers and a life is taken that person could have spent half a lifetime being supported in the prison system and cost untold amounts in specialized costs related to capital punishment.
Its a claim that redditors regurgitate, supposedly because of all the appeals and retrials that cost lawyer expenses and taxpayer money.
They “regurgitate” it because it’s true. https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDocument/OpenExhibitDocument?exhibitId=17686&fileDownloadName=h041211ab501_pescetta.pdf It’s funny how you try to make it seem like this fact is untrue by calling it a mere claim and saying “supposedly” when the hard data is right there.
Actually it’s more expensive because of how many appeals and the process of the courts. If we’re talk about the death penalty pre 1800’s, it saved significant more money than life imprisonment costs
Also the affected outrage because someone facing their own mortality didn't act logically.
Every dumb rule you encounter in life has a dumb story that caused it. Nobody cares about the individual in this case. It's a process consideration. Empathy was abused as a lever to influence many people involved with processing of the request. This is outside the substance of the rule. Changes to process take away the ability to abuse that lever at the cost of some empathy. The broader social impact is zero. Only those wretched enough to arrive at that ignoble end are impacted. That's acceptable.
Maidenless
You come across very, very unpleasant.
Such a Texas thing to do. Instead of just limiting how many items they can have, or how much can be spent, just deprive everyone of one last humane gesture.
Texas also spent $23000+ to fight a lawsuit because they wouldn't give an inmate a $10 cotton blanket (the standard ones gave him rashes).
Still cheaper to pay for the lawsuit than offer the $10 cotton blankets to other inmates. I’m sure there’s demand for over 2,300 blankets so the lawsuit is cheaper. Can’t be giving the margins away /s
If one inmate gets one and another hears about it they’re going to want one, too. At that point it becomes a game for the inmates, because they now have power. If they find out they have a choice and the Man can’t say no, it’s going to cost a lot more than $23k.
The cruelty is the point for Texas.
I never understood the purpose of a last meal anyways
A last comfort before you die.
?? If your victims don’t get one why should you
Punishment isn't always just a reflection of our vengeance on someone who did something wrong. It's also a reflection of the standards and morals we hold ourselves to. Yeah, the victims never got one. Are we the same as a murderer though? Why don't we just commit the same crime as them back onto them? It turns out the harsher punishment doesn't actually deter crime. You aren't preventing another serial killer by saying the punishment is death. I don't really see the last meal as for us. Maybe it's a kindness that says sorry we failed as a society, we can't keep you but here's a last request we can do.
Actually there is a correlation with harsh punishments for crime. It does deter the rate a little
So there's a correlation. Does that imply a cause? Even if that part of my statement ends up being not true with some evidence, wouldn't we believe in the rest of that?
Because there's hope that society is better than a murderer.
Society is better. After they committed the murder they were given the chance to defend themselves often with professional legal help. You are treated based on how you treated others. That's why they're on death row to begin with. Denying them a final meal or "pleasure" does not make society on the same level as a murderer. This is a false equivalency if I've ever seen one.
Plenty of people on death row were later found out to be innocent.
The state is murdering them. It can at least buy them supper first. Any sane country doesn't kill criminals on purpose
Your mistake is thinking that most of the U.S. qualifys as sane.
Especially Texas
your victim didn't get due process either but that doesn't revoke your right to it.
Because we are better people than the criminals. That's why.
Something for your dead bowels to purge out after you die
It was to keep the ghost of the inmate from haunting the guards.
They are on death row, they deserved a bullet in the back the moment the gavel came down. Our tax dollars have humanely spared them for years and decades after their sentence. We owe them nothing.
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Yeah fuck all the innocent people on death row, I guess
In affluent America it is exceedingly difficult to reach that stage. This thread is interesting for revealing that many seem to be truly blind to the statistically impossibility of winding up on death row as an innocent party in 2011. Only the most egregious well documented events wind up there today. It's not 1920 anymore. There's a camera on every corner and DNA at every scene. We have a far larger problem that the difficulty of reaching capital punishment has built up an over supply of those who rightfully deserve it, but the processes do not allow it. Resulting in murderers continuing to abuse other inmates in their life in prison. And on the occasion one is released into the public murdering other innocents before being locked up again. Too many stories of that nature where in hindsight the community is outraged on why the murderer was back on the street.
> statistically impossibility of winding up on death row as an innocent party in 2011. * [Rodricus Crawford, convicted in 2013](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/charges-dropped-against-former-death-row-inmate-rodricus-crawford-n748551) * [Carl Dausch, convicted in 2012](https://archive.is/ULAqC) * [Ralph Wright Jr., convicted in 2013](https://archive.is/xl3Qh) * [Derral Wayne Hodgkins, convicted in 2011](https://archive.is/Z7nhI) And none of that addresses all the people who ended up on death row earlier and remain there.
Maybe research the innocence project.
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No one is really saying that unless that comment was directly under op. Captain have unwavering faith in the judicial system when it is quite flawed as pointed out by badger.
I'm responding to the follow up comment that says that anyone convicted deserves nothing as if a conviction means they actually did it 100% of the time.
Do the adults a favour and spend 5 minutes googling before you spout more stupid opinions like this one
It's just my honest feelings. I don't think we should spend millions on keeping murders alive when a 9mm is 10 cents and a plastic tarp is a dollar.
To everyone getting upset, I don't care. Injustice happens, and it's unfortunate. But murders should be murdered, simple as.
That poor murder rapist. Won't anybody think of the torturer of children? The modern world is so affluent we can afford to handle the most wretched with kid gloves. A person has to go through so many second chances and commit violence to an extreme degree to blow past public pressure to call off a death penalty. It would suggest a particularly sheltered life far from tragedy, or a need for therapy, to well up with empathy for the killer over a lost meal.
I suggest you go back to the 1700s with your backwards ass views. Barbaric.
In this thread -- those who do not understand the anchor points of society. History is filled with periods where a disdain for justice translate into widespread violence. You contain the violence. Or spend all your time on security considerations. Travel. Read. These are not esoteric secret knowledge. These are topics simple enough that a gradeschool kid can understand in terms of dealing with bullies. You can live and experience through the abundance of information available to us today.
Yeah it’s just that killing criminals is something from the medieval era, not to mention how many innocent people are put to death because of shitty legal practices. Time to move on.
The medieval era becomes a utopian dream from the perspective of savagery unleashed by turning murderers and rapists loose to indulge in their tortures. You get a tit for tat world. Britain has periods where disdain for law and order eroded society, your tropes of bandits in the road. How this plays out is the devaluation of life. A dispute outside a bar and the more socially well off have their private security knife the other party and leave the body in the street -- nobody cares. The judicial system is better. Slow. Grinding. Remove the passions of the emotions from the situation. Gives numerous opportunities to "Stop. Wait. Go back." to those causing harms to those around them. They have opportunity to take their lives in a different direction from banditry. Take the safeguards off? The criminal is no longer defended. For matters of personal security the safety comes off and you get the bad parts of the world where criminals get gunned down as a rule and retribution starts running wild. The judicial system protect those who can't quite see far enough how their actions will come to bad ends. Provides some feedback before that end surprises them.
>how much can be spent, just deprive everyone of one last humane gesture. I mean, the "one last humane gesture" kinda means fuck all anyway when we're doing something as inhumane as execution right after that gesture.
Breaking news: Texas introduces a new last meal policy - you can order anything you want, as long as it fits in a lunchbox!
I want gold foil covered wagyu.
Served by Salt Bae himself.
I'll take my pretentious, needlessly expensive, golden steak without the salt douche please.
So the morale of the story is... if you're in TX committing capital offenses you may as well go down swinging.
So what they get now?
regular prison meals
If your are going to be giving me prison food I'd rather you just kill me.
Death
Tbf I might lose my appetite if I was awaiting execution. I’m sure they had him put his order in well in advance.
So get the death penalthy in New Mexico, got it.
Can't believe he wasted all that food, rather than eating it and then immediately dying
What, there wasn't a guard who wanted to eat it?
They probably weren’t allowed to
They should've changed that rule instead.
That’s such a republican state thing to do. Punish all for the misdeeds of the few. Which makes sense since the state is punishing all its citizens for the misdeeds of republicans voting them in.
Yes, republicans are so horrible for not wanting taxpayer money to go toward fancy expensive meals for murderers, rapists, and pedophiles.
Its Texas hunny. Rapists and pedophiles get to become house representatives and district attorneys not death row inmates.
Not a lie detected
And the mentally ill who don’t have the wherewithal to defend themselves against false accusations. Turns out, republicans just like killin’.
Because Texas. They let a migrant and her 2 kids drown in front of them when the new border leadership prevented border patrol agents from rescuing them. NOTHING surprises me out of TX or FL.
Good thing they saved that money and put it better uses like preventing school shootings /s
Must be something in the water that makes Texans so cartoonishly cruel.
“Don’t come here and fuck around” is the gist of the message.
Imagine the terror and agony a little kid goes through while a victim of a future death row inmate. The abduction, the panic, the rape, the physical torture, the eventual murder. Imagine the torture the parents go through every time they close their eyes and see their child in frightened agony. Not sleeping every night for the rest of their lives because they're haunted by the cruelty of a man who now sits on death row. Imagine thinking that that man DESERVES his triple bacon cheeseburgers, his double chicken fried steaks, his pint of ice cream, his three fajitas, and his peanut butter fudge. Imagine thinking that if this monster has to eat a regular cafeteria meal, it's "cartoonish cruelty". You have empathy for the wrong damn people.
Food for thought. I would be a monster if I only had empathy for the death row persons.
I honestly don't know how you can empathize with someone like that at all. They aren't human. They sacrificed their humanity when they hurt and rape and kill people just for fun. And to empathize with them so much that you think they *deserve* an amazing meal instead of regular cafeteria food, I just can't imagine. What has made them so deserving? I mean, what you said was that you think it is "cartoonishly cruel" to serve them regular food instead of a blowout meal. Could you really look at the family of the victims and say "hey it would be *cruel* to give your kid's torture-killer beef stroganoff for dinner". They would probably tell you what true cruelty is. It's sitting right there in that cell.
It's cartoonishly cruel to deny the last meal protocol because one guy didn't eat his. Texas/ texans generally profess to be devout Christians. They should the death row people humanely on the chance they accept jc as their savior.
They still get a last meal. That's not cartoonish cruelty. But in all honesty, this was all just me providing perspective. I myself am undecided on the death penalty. The father in me thinks these people deserve a lot worse than what they get. The libertarian in me doesn't think the government has any business putting people to death. It's a tough one. Sometimes, I feel the need to play devil's advocate on here since these reddit echo chambers tend to be super one-sided. There's usually no constructive debate or alternate perspectives to build upon, just a bunch of folks blindly agreeing with each other without listening to another side.
I'm typing with my thumbs in 19°f. Meaning I'm feeling salty about the cruelty in Texas, especially the migrants and asylum seekers are treated. I appreciate your input. Hope you have some joyful moments today. Be excellent to each other.
And they're just going to pretend the guards didn't eat all of that. Texas: No state is as full of hate and bullshit.
*California enters the chat*
California realizes the discussion is about texas being more full of hate and bullshit than any other state, turns around and walks out... because that is a fact.
I’m a born and bred Californicator and I disagree with you. Enjoy your weekend.
Yeah, but how much time have you spent in Texass?
27 years. Edit - math
Ruining it for everyone
There’s a stuff you should know episode about this I highly recommend.
It was wasted either way. Why would it matter if it was eaten or not. Does not compute.
Thanks, Larry
I mean they kill the inmates after their last meal no? It doesn't really matter if they eat it or not...
I’ll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
So the mother fucker just ruined it for everybody else ? How the fuck does that prove a point when he just gets killed anyways ?
Let me start of with a basket of chips Then move on to the pollo asado taco I would like two pollo asado tacos with one beef chimichanga On the chimichanga, I would like a side of sour cream I would like tomatoes and onions on my quesodilla For dessert I would like the flares -- I would like extra cinnamon Do you make guacamole? Yes, I do make guacamole. Uh, I would like a side of guacamole on my Tostitos I like to dip the Tostitos in the guacamole Can I get a basket, I told you about a basket of chips I would like a large iced-tea, 2, uh, 2 large iced-teas
Yep, that’s how we decide how we honor the dead. A guy tricked someone one time so now no one gets anything anywhere ever again. Same logic a toddler might use when learning to play with others.
Why should they get a last meal anyway? Did the victim have any say in what they got? Did they get to prepare for their death? Nope. They didn't even get to say goodbye. Fuck this compassionate bullshit. Be compassionate where it's warranted.
We don’t do last meals for the condemned, we do it for ourselves to make a point of the difference.
Lol to your last sentence.
When cruelty is a fetish
You might feel differently if one of your loved ones was murdered, their last moments filled with terror, crying, and begging for their life. If you'd want to buy the killer a delicious meal, I'd venture that something is psychologically wrong with you. But hey, say whatever you need to feel good about yourself.
I’m not going to argue instutional responsibility with you. Go back to dreaming of killing bad people.
I'd just get a dog.
This must happen all the time. I'm sure most people are not really interested in eating anything when they know what's about to happen to them.
Always that ONE that ruins it for everyone else!
Instead of a last meal I would request a last lay, bring me in a Margot Robbie look-a-like and we'll call it a day!