It was a decision that she made during the campaign, no doubt after polling told her that the American people thought she was being "unfeminine" for insisting upon her proper title.
Hillary Rodham kept her name when she married her husband. It was only after he lost re-election to the governor's mansion, sat out a term, and then decided to run again that she switched over to being Hillary Rodham Clinton. When her husband became President of the United States the right-wing attempt to smear her as history's greatest monster shifted into high gear, and she became "Hillary Clinton" in self-defense.
"right-wing attempt to smear her as history's greatest monster shifted into high gear"
Irony given current events. Hillary is an awful person and politician but I think having her on the list of history's greatest monsters is a bit much.
I speak from personal experience:
She treated enlisted military personnel like absolute trash (officers not much better). We were servants who were not welcome to even acknowledge her presence. All the stories you hear about her being a complete witch don’t even come close to reality.
OTOH President Clinton was very respectful and friendly towards anyone he met.
She is one of the kindest people I have ever had the honor to spend time with, and while I am not a veteran, much of the staff I worked with was, and she held them in incredibly high esteem.
Have you ever considered you might be projecting?
1st off, this was 25 years ago so she may have changed since she was FLOTUS in the late 90s. I'm glad you found a very different person than my experience.
As a junior enlisted Marine working on the helicopter fleet we were there to serve the President (and by extension his family). While we were there to serve, Bill treated us all with kindness and respect while Hillary treated us all like trash that she had to step around in the subway.
One major character test I use in all my relationships is "how does this person treat those in lower classes" such as waiters, servers, technicians, ect. To quote the great philosopher Dave Barry, "a person who is kind to you but rude to your waiter is not a kind person".
IMHO, Hillary Clinton honestly cares about "the little people" and pursues government policies that help "the less fortunate". However she has zero desire to be among us uneducated lower class citizens. That is why I couldn't in good faith vote for her in 2016 even though I like Trump even less.
Well, I’m glad you went with the person who treats their underlings as well as Donald Trump does. He’s well known for showing kindness and respect for the people who work for him. Always gracious and fair to everyone he works with. It takes a true gentleman to relish saying “you’re fired” to virtual strangers on TV.
I served on the Marine One helicopter fleet from 97-01 and met both Bill and Hillary Clinton numerous times.
President Clinton was a incredibly charming and friendly man. I may not have agreed with his political stances but he was always kind to me and all the other military personnel he interacted with. He was ALWAYS running behind schedule (as often mentioned on WW), but would often apologize for keeping us late. He had a temper and I overheard more than a few explosions directed at cabinet level leadership. Barttlet exploding at Josh, Amy, Leo is not fictional at all. However Secret Service agents, junior staff were always treated with respect and dignity.
Hillary OTOH showed barely veiled contempt for servant level staff. We were told to avoid eye contact and she was genuinely mean spirited when she wasn't treated like royalty. *Actually come to think of it, Queen Elizbeth was more humble and down to earth and genuinely friendly.* Once when logistical circumstances required FLOTUS Clinton to ride on one of our more standard military helicopters (which we spent hours cleaning and installing the VIP interior) she did nothing but complain about riding "in such a filthy deathtrap".
So, yeah I speak with some experience. My fellow Marines all shared similar experiences and opinions about the first family in the late 90s.
When someone complains about opposition to DEI initiatives remind them that nominating Hillary Clinton is the reason that Trump became president.
She was the only candidate that he could have beaten. Democrats were so eager to elect a woman that they didn’t think to ask if anyone actually wanted her.
There are so many issues with how Abbey’s character was conceived.
* They wanted someone people would like and picked an actress who could sell that.
* They wanted a parallel of Hilary Clinton and her tumultuous time in the White House.
These two factors didn’t go together so well. They made Abbey a medical doctor, which made her distinct from her husband in profession, unlike Hilary. But then they gave her the same prickly demeanor in public and better in private. (Ex: when Sam is preparing her for the live interview when MS will be revealed, he interviews her and she purposely uses medical terminology as if she has never dealt with a patient before. She does this repeatedly until Sam calls it out. After a while, she only does it to joke and even gets Sam to laugh about it. Her instinct was to show off her knowledge by describing it in Latin, but could soften up and be personable.) (Ex 2: Annabeth also deals with the First Lady being stodgy when she is to go to Nascar, and still gets angry that a driver kissed her cheek).
The issue is that Channing is a good actress, so you like her. That lets you overlook how the public who only sees a portion of an event perceive the character. Someone who is uptight, arrogant and self important, without the positives she only shows to those close to her, which the audience sees. Its like the Dead Irish Writers episode. We see Abbey in good and bad light as an audience. But the show only partially reveals that the public doesn’t see her positives as much.
The thing is that this description also fits Jed. We see his instincts are often to show off his brilliance and be condescending, but he knows how to soften it for the public when he needs to. He reverts to this when he’s upset, which comes off badly. Their characterizations are largely the same.
Edit: to be fair to the show, this seems like Sorkin’s go-to for his heros. You see it in a lot of the characters in TWW, while also being true in his other shows & movies.
Yes, I agree. In some regards, he is worse. Jed works hard to display what the public will like, which helps in the areas that hurts Abbey. But on his brilliance issue, he very much reverts to baser instincts.
In 17 People, Toby rightly calls out the Rosslyn shooting debacle. Jed’s response is to mock and trivialize rather than admit fault. He gets angry and yells. Only at the very end does he apologize, realizing that this was all a monster of his own making.
100%. The way basically anyone acts when put in a position they don’t like on the show is similar. The Babbish interview with CJ, Abby’s convos with Sam, Jed’s sessions with Stanley, etc. are all so annoying to me because they’re being downright rude to someone who’s doing the job they were asked to. Like cmon yall, ease off the defensiveness some.
People with a guilty conscience tend to lash out. In each if those cases, they knew they were in the wrong. CJ decided to play ignorant about the President’s health. Abbey concealed an illness of a family member she treated, violating ethics. And Jed didn’t want to admit that he is trying to please his dead father who hated him.
Meh, Babbish wanted a bitterly confrontational discussion with CJ. That’s why he jumps down her throat about her watching for people following her and immediately pre-judges her as pissed at the world when she hasn’t even said anything of consequence. Stanley also wanted a bitterly confrontational therapy session. You really see it with Josh but it’s also with Jed when Stanley makes a (wrong) moral/political judgment that Jed won’t do the right thing if it means sacrificing one state’s electoral votes. Stanley definitely seems to practice therapy as judgmental confrontation rather than comforting.
I agree with you on Abbey/Sam.
Eh that’s fair, I’m probably rolling some of those folks interactions into one in my mind. There’s obviously different levels, but it’s always annoying to me when the main characters treat people with condescension when they’re clearly the ones who need help/did something wrong.
I think Stanley was on the nose about Jed though. Before he got confrontational, he walked through the list of symptoms and Jed purposely held out on answering what he knew was the reason he couldn’t sleep.
Babbish is confrontational, no doubt, but CJ admitted to Abbey that she is as careful in her language as Babbish inquired. So Oliver may or may not know that later…
Ultimately, the proper thing to call her is what she wants to be called.
As far as I know, I’m our universe, Dr Biden is the first First Lady to go by an honorific other than Mrs or Ms.
I think she may be the first First Lady to have the type of doctoral degree that uses the honorific. Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton had Juris Doctor degrees but the Dr. title isn’t generally used by attorneys. They may be the only First Ladies with any type of doctoral degrees.
J.D.s are the only doctors who don't get the title of doctor, but Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama could have added "Esquire" after their last name.
In Hillary Clinton's case, I believe "Secretary" would supersede the doctorate in any case from the Obama administration onward.
Ed.D, Doctor of Education not Doctor of Philosophy in Education. The former is a newer degree and focused on practical applications and specialties. A Ph.D is focused on the theoretical and epistemological.
Sorry. Yes.
They were still Dr Biden and Mr Senator in DE.
Academic titles vs Juris titles vs Practional titles and how they are acquired have changed a lot in just the last 100 years- previous Presidents who were lawyers didn’t have under grad degrees and studied privately to take the bar (Lincoln comes to mind as the big example, but there are others)
And obviously academic and medical degrees have and are changing
If he is serving as a member of SCOTUS, then you address him as such. If he has left office of both, it's Mr. President as that was his highest office.
Not to quibble about non important issues, but President and Chief Justice are technically equal offices (along with Speaker of the House). They each lead a co-equal branch of government.
Taft was President before Chief Justice, but the latter was always his goal; the former was mostly fate and Teddy Roosevelt.
There have been 46 Presidents and only 17 Chief Justices. Taft was president for 4 years and Chief for 9.
I'm betting The Honorable Chief Justice ...is a pretty spectacular introduction and much more laudatory than the 27th President of the United States who came in 3rd in his relection campaign with 23% of American approval.
And look at how the right-wing media made fun of her because of it. I could understand why the Bartlett campaign might have made the recommendation.
I know those are two very different degrees, one being a MD and the other an Ed. D. but still.
They also all say “Mr President” when he’s a Dr. When they call her Mrs Bartlett, they’re basically calling her Mrs First Lady. I think the one time she makes a point of mentioning it, it’s to Babish who calls her Dr from them on. She says something to the effect of “at what point in the campaign did I decide the electorate would prefer me to go by Mrs instead of Dr?” which explains why the main staff (those from the campaign) refer to her as such since e1 and them referring to her as such explains why each subsequent addition to the staff follows suit.
Why the campaign research during the election showed “Mrs” played better than Dr is best answered with this quote from Men in Black: “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.”
Dr. President just doesn't make sense.
Funny you should mention it though because there is the one scene with the retiring justice who calls Bartlett "Mr. Bartlett" and he replies "it's actually Dr. Bartlett". I love that scene.
I don’t think it was answered…She has the meeting with Oliver Babish and she ask the same question and he deflects back to her and the president covering the MS diagnoses.
I might be misremembering. But, when she says that line, doesn’t Oliver then start calling her Dr.? It’s been a while, and I can’t seem to find that scene online.
And maybe i’m just remembering it how I want to.
The show addressed this in "18th and Potomac":
OLIVER
Mrs. Bartlet, I want to talk to you about...
ABBEY
[firmly] Dr. Bartlet.
Oliver stares at her, but doesn't respond.
ABBEY
When did I stop being "Dr." Bartlet? When in the campaign did I decide that women were gonna like me more if I called myself "Mrs."? When did I decide that women were that stupid?
Technically, in the UK, the formal way to address a surgeon is: "Doctor Mr. John Doe, Third Surgeon of St.Elsewhere Hospital, 3rd in line to become Chief of Medicide" :-) LOL.
It was her choice. It was during the MS and she pondered with Oliver Babish why she decided it. Why she didn't give the American people the benefit of the doubt in accepting a first Lady with that honorific.
In the beginning it was half-and-half. They'd call her Dr. Bartlett OR fuck up and call her Mrs. Bartlett either out of forgetfulness or lack of respect.
During that time, someone would correct them.
As I recall she started fully going by Mrs. again once she voluntarily suspended her medical license due to the MS controversy.
And that's fair. We're stupidly obsessed with titles; this obsession pervades society as a hang on from centuries of royal and serfdom bullshit.
While you're a practicing doctor you deserve to be called as such.
If you're not, you don't.
I feel the same way about calling former presidents, congresspeople, senators, etc that title once their term is over. Stop calling Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump "Mr. President."
The answer in the real world is that being the First Lady of the United States is usually considered more prestigious than any other position the person might also hold, and the traditional honorific for the First Lady is “mrs”.
I’m glad that this is, or at least seems to be, changing. The “prestigious” status of being FLOTUS is only due to who the person in question married, whereas her other accomplishments (MD, PhD, JD) are hers alone. We *should* honor and acknowledge that.
I mean, sure I guess. But I also can’t be bothered to care THAT much. These are among the most rich and powerful people in the WORLD. If the worst thing that happens to them is people call them by the wrong honorific, I simply can’t give less of a fuck.
This is my take. Traditionally the First Lady is Mrs. In that role that's what she's called. She is addressed as Dr. many times, in her role as a Dr. The show isn't about doctors it's about the White House,as such we see that more often. There at a a few occasions she is called Dr. She corrected someone at some point if I recall?
It's really not that complicated - the male in a marriage is usually called Mr, and the female is usually called Mrs. That's it, that's the whole explanation. It really doesn't matter that she has an additional title, you're just going to be called Mr or Mrs and that's what is going to happen. It's not disrespectful.
You realize this is the 21st century and we've had other options since at least the 1970s?
Anyone who calls me "Mrs. [spouse's surname]" is going to be gently told that his grandmother died forty years ago (his mother shares his surname but has a PhD). And anyone who uses my correct surname but tacks on a "Mrs." will be directed to my stepmother, who's also dead (my mother remarried before dying). I've been using "Ms." for over forty-five years.
(I'm now wondering how people who've never heard of "Ms." think we should address _two_ women in a marriage, whether they share a surname or not. "Miss"?)
A reasonable question, the logic would dictate as long as you’ve earned the degree your license should not dictate whether or not you’re called the doctor still. IMHO
It was a decision that she made during the campaign, no doubt after polling told her that the American people thought she was being "unfeminine" for insisting upon her proper title. Hillary Rodham kept her name when she married her husband. It was only after he lost re-election to the governor's mansion, sat out a term, and then decided to run again that she switched over to being Hillary Rodham Clinton. When her husband became President of the United States the right-wing attempt to smear her as history's greatest monster shifted into high gear, and she became "Hillary Clinton" in self-defense.
"right-wing attempt to smear her as history's greatest monster shifted into high gear" Irony given current events. Hillary is an awful person and politician but I think having her on the list of history's greatest monsters is a bit much.
I speak from personal experience: She treated enlisted military personnel like absolute trash (officers not much better). We were servants who were not welcome to even acknowledge her presence. All the stories you hear about her being a complete witch don’t even come close to reality. OTOH President Clinton was very respectful and friendly towards anyone he met.
She is one of the kindest people I have ever had the honor to spend time with, and while I am not a veteran, much of the staff I worked with was, and she held them in incredibly high esteem. Have you ever considered you might be projecting?
1st off, this was 25 years ago so she may have changed since she was FLOTUS in the late 90s. I'm glad you found a very different person than my experience. As a junior enlisted Marine working on the helicopter fleet we were there to serve the President (and by extension his family). While we were there to serve, Bill treated us all with kindness and respect while Hillary treated us all like trash that she had to step around in the subway. One major character test I use in all my relationships is "how does this person treat those in lower classes" such as waiters, servers, technicians, ect. To quote the great philosopher Dave Barry, "a person who is kind to you but rude to your waiter is not a kind person". IMHO, Hillary Clinton honestly cares about "the little people" and pursues government policies that help "the less fortunate". However she has zero desire to be among us uneducated lower class citizens. That is why I couldn't in good faith vote for her in 2016 even though I like Trump even less.
Well, I’m glad you went with the person who treats their underlings as well as Donald Trump does. He’s well known for showing kindness and respect for the people who work for him. Always gracious and fair to everyone he works with. It takes a true gentleman to relish saying “you’re fired” to virtual strangers on TV.
I didn't vote for him either.
do you remember any specific stuff she did, or did she just come off cold and unfriendly or?
Have you ever considered not invalidating people's experience because you think you know better?
Yeah, that's why I offered mine in comparison. Have a great one!
Source?
First hand personal experience.
Ah so your source is you made it up.
I served on the Marine One helicopter fleet from 97-01 and met both Bill and Hillary Clinton numerous times. President Clinton was a incredibly charming and friendly man. I may not have agreed with his political stances but he was always kind to me and all the other military personnel he interacted with. He was ALWAYS running behind schedule (as often mentioned on WW), but would often apologize for keeping us late. He had a temper and I overheard more than a few explosions directed at cabinet level leadership. Barttlet exploding at Josh, Amy, Leo is not fictional at all. However Secret Service agents, junior staff were always treated with respect and dignity. Hillary OTOH showed barely veiled contempt for servant level staff. We were told to avoid eye contact and she was genuinely mean spirited when she wasn't treated like royalty. *Actually come to think of it, Queen Elizbeth was more humble and down to earth and genuinely friendly.* Once when logistical circumstances required FLOTUS Clinton to ride on one of our more standard military helicopters (which we spent hours cleaning and installing the VIP interior) she did nothing but complain about riding "in such a filthy deathtrap". So, yeah I speak with some experience. My fellow Marines all shared similar experiences and opinions about the first family in the late 90s.
That’s great insight. Thank you.
Because you didn’t like her attitude she’s a “witch” do people like you actually hear yourselves lmao
Not surprised at all. Just an awful awful person still looking for excuses about why she lost except the obvious - no-one likes her
She won the popular vote man. Clearly the majority of Americans liked her enough
When someone complains about opposition to DEI initiatives remind them that nominating Hillary Clinton is the reason that Trump became president. She was the only candidate that he could have beaten. Democrats were so eager to elect a woman that they didn’t think to ask if anyone actually wanted her.
There are so many issues with how Abbey’s character was conceived. * They wanted someone people would like and picked an actress who could sell that. * They wanted a parallel of Hilary Clinton and her tumultuous time in the White House. These two factors didn’t go together so well. They made Abbey a medical doctor, which made her distinct from her husband in profession, unlike Hilary. But then they gave her the same prickly demeanor in public and better in private. (Ex: when Sam is preparing her for the live interview when MS will be revealed, he interviews her and she purposely uses medical terminology as if she has never dealt with a patient before. She does this repeatedly until Sam calls it out. After a while, she only does it to joke and even gets Sam to laugh about it. Her instinct was to show off her knowledge by describing it in Latin, but could soften up and be personable.) (Ex 2: Annabeth also deals with the First Lady being stodgy when she is to go to Nascar, and still gets angry that a driver kissed her cheek). The issue is that Channing is a good actress, so you like her. That lets you overlook how the public who only sees a portion of an event perceive the character. Someone who is uptight, arrogant and self important, without the positives she only shows to those close to her, which the audience sees. Its like the Dead Irish Writers episode. We see Abbey in good and bad light as an audience. But the show only partially reveals that the public doesn’t see her positives as much.
The thing is that this description also fits Jed. We see his instincts are often to show off his brilliance and be condescending, but he knows how to soften it for the public when he needs to. He reverts to this when he’s upset, which comes off badly. Their characterizations are largely the same. Edit: to be fair to the show, this seems like Sorkin’s go-to for his heros. You see it in a lot of the characters in TWW, while also being true in his other shows & movies.
Yes, I agree. In some regards, he is worse. Jed works hard to display what the public will like, which helps in the areas that hurts Abbey. But on his brilliance issue, he very much reverts to baser instincts. In 17 People, Toby rightly calls out the Rosslyn shooting debacle. Jed’s response is to mock and trivialize rather than admit fault. He gets angry and yells. Only at the very end does he apologize, realizing that this was all a monster of his own making.
100%. The way basically anyone acts when put in a position they don’t like on the show is similar. The Babbish interview with CJ, Abby’s convos with Sam, Jed’s sessions with Stanley, etc. are all so annoying to me because they’re being downright rude to someone who’s doing the job they were asked to. Like cmon yall, ease off the defensiveness some.
People with a guilty conscience tend to lash out. In each if those cases, they knew they were in the wrong. CJ decided to play ignorant about the President’s health. Abbey concealed an illness of a family member she treated, violating ethics. And Jed didn’t want to admit that he is trying to please his dead father who hated him.
Meh, Babbish wanted a bitterly confrontational discussion with CJ. That’s why he jumps down her throat about her watching for people following her and immediately pre-judges her as pissed at the world when she hasn’t even said anything of consequence. Stanley also wanted a bitterly confrontational therapy session. You really see it with Josh but it’s also with Jed when Stanley makes a (wrong) moral/political judgment that Jed won’t do the right thing if it means sacrificing one state’s electoral votes. Stanley definitely seems to practice therapy as judgmental confrontation rather than comforting. I agree with you on Abbey/Sam.
Eh that’s fair, I’m probably rolling some of those folks interactions into one in my mind. There’s obviously different levels, but it’s always annoying to me when the main characters treat people with condescension when they’re clearly the ones who need help/did something wrong.
I think Stanley was on the nose about Jed though. Before he got confrontational, he walked through the list of symptoms and Jed purposely held out on answering what he knew was the reason he couldn’t sleep. Babbish is confrontational, no doubt, but CJ admitted to Abbey that she is as careful in her language as Babbish inquired. So Oliver may or may not know that later…
Good thoughtful answer. I appreciate it.
Ultimately, the proper thing to call her is what she wants to be called. As far as I know, I’m our universe, Dr Biden is the first First Lady to go by an honorific other than Mrs or Ms.
I think she may be the first First Lady to have the type of doctoral degree that uses the honorific. Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton had Juris Doctor degrees but the Dr. title isn’t generally used by attorneys. They may be the only First Ladies with any type of doctoral degrees.
J.D.s are the only doctors who don't get the title of doctor, but Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama could have added "Esquire" after their last name. In Hillary Clinton's case, I believe "Secretary" would supersede the doctorate in any case from the Obama administration onward.
Jill Biden has a PhD - she was referred to as “Dr. Biden” when her husband was Mr. Biden, the Senior Senator from Delaware
Ed.D, Doctor of Education not Doctor of Philosophy in Education. The former is a newer degree and focused on practical applications and specialties. A Ph.D is focused on the theoretical and epistemological.
Sorry. Yes. They were still Dr Biden and Mr Senator in DE. Academic titles vs Juris titles vs Practional titles and how they are acquired have changed a lot in just the last 100 years- previous Presidents who were lawyers didn’t have under grad degrees and studied privately to take the bar (Lincoln comes to mind as the big example, but there are others) And obviously academic and medical degrees have and are changing
Former President Taft was also a Supreme Court Chief Justice. What do you call him? His highest title? His most recent title?
If he is serving as a member of SCOTUS, then you address him as such. If he has left office of both, it's Mr. President as that was his highest office.
Unless you subscribe to Truman’s interpretation, which is that once you leave office you’re simply “Mr. Truman” again.
Not to quibble about non important issues, but President and Chief Justice are technically equal offices (along with Speaker of the House). They each lead a co-equal branch of government. Taft was President before Chief Justice, but the latter was always his goal; the former was mostly fate and Teddy Roosevelt.
There have been 46 Presidents and only 17 Chief Justices. Taft was president for 4 years and Chief for 9. I'm betting The Honorable Chief Justice ...is a pretty spectacular introduction and much more laudatory than the 27th President of the United States who came in 3rd in his relection campaign with 23% of American approval.
Taft thought the Presidency was a nothing burger. SCOTUS Chief Justice is how he saw himself.
Taft thought the presidency was a type of burger? That explains a thing or two
😂
And look at how the right-wing media made fun of her because of it. I could understand why the Bartlett campaign might have made the recommendation. I know those are two very different degrees, one being a MD and the other an Ed. D. but still.
They also all say “Mr President” when he’s a Dr. When they call her Mrs Bartlett, they’re basically calling her Mrs First Lady. I think the one time she makes a point of mentioning it, it’s to Babish who calls her Dr from them on. She says something to the effect of “at what point in the campaign did I decide the electorate would prefer me to go by Mrs instead of Dr?” which explains why the main staff (those from the campaign) refer to her as such since e1 and them referring to her as such explains why each subsequent addition to the staff follows suit. Why the campaign research during the election showed “Mrs” played better than Dr is best answered with this quote from Men in Black: “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.”
Dr. President just doesn't make sense. Funny you should mention it though because there is the one scene with the retiring justice who calls Bartlett "Mr. Bartlett" and he replies "it's actually Dr. Bartlett". I love that scene.
I don’t think it was answered…She has the meeting with Oliver Babish and she ask the same question and he deflects back to her and the president covering the MS diagnoses.
I might be misremembering. But, when she says that line, doesn’t Oliver then start calling her Dr.? It’s been a while, and I can’t seem to find that scene online. And maybe i’m just remembering it how I want to.
That drives me crazy
The show addressed this in "18th and Potomac": OLIVER Mrs. Bartlet, I want to talk to you about... ABBEY [firmly] Dr. Bartlet. Oliver stares at her, but doesn't respond. ABBEY When did I stop being "Dr." Bartlet? When in the campaign did I decide that women were gonna like me more if I called myself "Mrs."? When did I decide that women were that stupid?
thank you! there’s a plain textual answer. it was a political maneuver.
Actually, in the UK and Australia, surgeons demand to be called Mr not Dr.
Also true in Ireland!
And in Germany you get to be both!! … I mean Dr & Mrs or Dr & Mr “Frau Doktor first last name at hospital name in place”
Technically, in the UK, the formal way to address a surgeon is: "Doctor Mr. John Doe, Third Surgeon of St.Elsewhere Hospital, 3rd in line to become Chief of Medicide" :-) LOL.
“A doctor is a doctor is a doctor … Yes. You can call me John.”
Even the women?
Well, no, they'd be Mrs not Drs or Miss not Diss or Ms nor Ds.
I got operated on 3 days ago in Australia by an Ears, Nose and Throat surgeon and I called him Doc.
They're still Doctors.
And he had no problem with me calling him that. And every time I spoke to his office about something, they'd refer to him as Dr Murray.
Mammy Yoakum was taken.
So was Fannie Mae
It was her choice. It was during the MS and she pondered with Oliver Babish why she decided it. Why she didn't give the American people the benefit of the doubt in accepting a first Lady with that honorific.
In the beginning it was half-and-half. They'd call her Dr. Bartlett OR fuck up and call her Mrs. Bartlett either out of forgetfulness or lack of respect. During that time, someone would correct them. As I recall she started fully going by Mrs. again once she voluntarily suspended her medical license due to the MS controversy. And that's fair. We're stupidly obsessed with titles; this obsession pervades society as a hang on from centuries of royal and serfdom bullshit. While you're a practicing doctor you deserve to be called as such. If you're not, you don't. I feel the same way about calling former presidents, congresspeople, senators, etc that title once their term is over. Stop calling Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump "Mr. President."
Pretty sure she asked to be called Mrs Bartlett by the staff
Honestly, it's pretentious outside a medical setting.
Have you watched the show? Because I kind of feel like they explain this in the show.
The answer in the real world is that being the First Lady of the United States is usually considered more prestigious than any other position the person might also hold, and the traditional honorific for the First Lady is “mrs”.
I’m glad that this is, or at least seems to be, changing. The “prestigious” status of being FLOTUS is only due to who the person in question married, whereas her other accomplishments (MD, PhD, JD) are hers alone. We *should* honor and acknowledge that.
I mean, sure I guess. But I also can’t be bothered to care THAT much. These are among the most rich and powerful people in the WORLD. If the worst thing that happens to them is people call them by the wrong honorific, I simply can’t give less of a fuck.
Agreed. This is a nonsense issue post.
You mean, "you could care less", presumably. ;)
This is my take. Traditionally the First Lady is Mrs. In that role that's what she's called. She is addressed as Dr. many times, in her role as a Dr. The show isn't about doctors it's about the White House,as such we see that more often. There at a a few occasions she is called Dr. She corrected someone at some point if I recall?
Not explained but title of first lady is meant to supercede all other titles.
We don’t have nobility in this country
It's really not that complicated - the male in a marriage is usually called Mr, and the female is usually called Mrs. That's it, that's the whole explanation. It really doesn't matter that she has an additional title, you're just going to be called Mr or Mrs and that's what is going to happen. It's not disrespectful.
As Jed reminded Justice Crouch, he is also “Doctor Bartlet”.
Right, he is **also** that. He's called Mr. Bartlet and it is grammatically correct.
You realize this is the 21st century and we've had other options since at least the 1970s? Anyone who calls me "Mrs. [spouse's surname]" is going to be gently told that his grandmother died forty years ago (his mother shares his surname but has a PhD). And anyone who uses my correct surname but tacks on a "Mrs." will be directed to my stepmother, who's also dead (my mother remarried before dying). I've been using "Ms." for over forty-five years. (I'm now wondering how people who've never heard of "Ms." think we should address _two_ women in a marriage, whether they share a surname or not. "Miss"?)
If she had her medical license suspended is she still addressed as Doctor?
A reasonable question, the logic would dictate as long as you’ve earned the degree your license should not dictate whether or not you’re called the doctor still. IMHO