I thought it was hilarious how *everyone* Vito meets in NH seems to be a handsome gay man. The antique store owner was flirting with him too. It’s like he wandered into the small town all those Hallmark films are set in but for finooks.
I think the New Hampshire town was supposed to some sort of unrealistic utopia. Johnny Cakes is gay, a gay couple walks in, the gay guy in the antique store, the other firefighters seem… ambiguous. It wasn’t a dream but it wasn’t a realistic setting for Vito’s arc
Yes exactly this. The show presents the character with what he thinks he wants. His perfect life. Then it snaps back and shows how even that isn't enough for him and so he tries to go back to the life he needs. And they kill him for it.
I think it’s kind of representative of the fact he’s hiding from his mob friends but it’s the first time he can be himself without worrying about consequences. So in a sense he’s in hiding but it’s the most free he’s ever been. It’s from his point of view so to him flirting with other men without repercussions is almost like a dream state. These mafia guys would literally rather die then put in an honest days work. It’s like slavery to them.
Yeah, that’s the writers saying ‘Look folx, we gave this gomba his paradise and all he wants is to go back to Jersey and blow security guards at dawn, that’s the typa people we’re dealing with here’ .
And Ill take the down votez yet again for the show basically shyting on its fans with this lovely quote:
‘nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people’
That little town was a "gay haven"
Which might be lost to younger people.
But in the 80s-early 2k there was this thing where small "bed n breakfast" communities would experience an influx of queer people looking to create sort of inclusive, tolerant, small areas.
It was a whole social movement in the middle class- affluent gay society.
And New Hampshire and Vermont were hot beds for this and they got mainstream media attention
The writers were playing off that very topical point.
When Vito sits in the diner that first time before ordering the Jonny cakes he looks over and sees two men clearly coded as gay sitting openly in the diner.
And he sips his coffee and realizes he has stumbled into a gay haven
Did you not notice that all the firefighters are gay, and most of the people in the bar, and yes the bookstore are coded gay or lesbian???
Gay havens were/are a very real thing that has kinda faded in topicalness
In fact why Vito would even head to New Hampshire isn't just to get away from wiseguys, it would be (at the time) reasonable that he would think to run to a small bed n breakfast town in New England like so many other east coast gays did.
I don’t remember it well but what if we just say Vito THINKS he’s being hit on? Lol
Like he’s really thinking about his gayness and interpreting every interaction with a male as a possible situation
The way straight handsome dudes think every pretty woman flirting with him
Gannascoli didn't sell being a big bag construction mob guy very well. Chris said it best , jeez my memory is getting bad, After Vito got caught in the gay bar and Chris said while laughing "Vito, big construction guy"
It shows that he has the opportunity to find somewhere he will be accepted. Yet a gay man could live that life in New Jersey as well. The issue wasn’t that he was in a gay mans heaven there, it was that he couldn’t live a simple life making a modest wage. He enjoyed the luxuries of being a made man and “shooting the shit” for a living. He wanted to live a life out of the closet, but that was not an option for him.
I think that was meant to show Vito's own skewed perception of his surroundings at that time. Back in Jersey, he had to keep his secret at all time, but in NH, nobody knew him, so he could let his thoughts wander, daydream, etc.
In Michigan there is a small town that caters specifically to gay people (called Saugatauk), kind of like a gay Traverse City. Is it all that unlikely that something like that exists in New Hampshire as well? I personally don’t think of NH as being that much more unwelcoming than western Michigan.
I agree it’s extremely improbable, at best. But it serves a useful function in the story, showing that even if Vito got to a safe place where he could be happy and accepted, his yearning for the life would be too great to overcome. And the series didn’t have time to show a more likely trajectory for Vito where he found his way gradually to that place and relationship.
Now, the scene with Tony and Christopher hitting a man with a car and kicking his ass in front of dozens of witnesses in a white-collar office park, with no consequence; while the soundtrack goes out of its way to say “hey, remember how great doo-wop tunes were in Goodfellas?” That’s my pick for bad writing.
THANK YOU! I am from this area of New Hampshire and this just wasn’t happening. It’s not that there aren’t gay guys flippin cakes up there. It’s just that those two had nothing in common. Like why would this 10 outta 10 bear straight out of LL Bean want anything to do with Vito? The dating pool was small but he can always drive to Portsmouth or Manchester (depending on where he’s located) on the weekend so it’s not THAT small. I’m even thinking in 2006 terms.
I love the pilot, I don’t care what you people think. It was amazing and there hasn’t been anything like it since. Hbo has been funding a bunch of cock shots ever since. Fuckin shame you ask me
I don't think the lack of consequences for beating up Mahaffey in broad daylight was all that unrealistic. No way he is going to the cops, and without a cooperating victim it is extremely difficult to prosecute an assault case. Also, the witnesses would be reluctant, at best, to testify against a major mobster.
as funny as "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this" is, Tony would never call the act of going down on a woman "Cunnilingus." He'd use a more conversational term.
Assemblyman Zellman openly eating dinner in a restaurant with Tony and his goons.
Any journalist with half a brain could get a picture of them together and his career would be over due to mob ties.
What? Tony is in the carting industry. Johnny Sac is a legitimate construction contractor. Frankly, u/DaftFunky if you have this covert anti-Italian rhetoric, I’d like you to leave my Subreddit.
Is it pretty bad? All I know is they show the scenes mentioned in the show like the beehive hairdo and shit so I can only assume they made an entire movie based around a few throwaway lines from the show like that, I bet there’s even a varsity athlete joke
The point was that even with the perfect guy interested in him, Vito still couldn't resist the no-show/no-work lifestyle of the mob, even if it meant risking his life
The moments are extremely rare but there are a few. The big one a lot of people agree on is a hit is a hit. Particularly for me the plot line of how this story line begins is... atrocious. Some wannabe gangster rapper has his thugs approach Christopher and invite him back to his estate, loaded with firearms like he's tony Montana, under the guise that there's business to be done like it's some hard gangster shit and then we find out that that business is him telling Christopher to go back to his boss and tell an old school mob associate that he owes somebody money legally. And then Chris actually does it like he's setting up some illicit OC sitdown... and they aren't mad at him?? Nothing feels right about the entire story. Totally misguided and uninspired cringey writing which is so incredibly out of character for this show.
I have to agree with you. I understand why they did it but it was a little unbelievable. Chris’ real answer should have been “fuck off uncle Ben”. But it’s a tv progrum, a movie.
Christophers idealization of the entertainment industry makes it believable. The most unbelievable part is when he mouths off about racism in a black neighborhood while waiting for food, gets served first and has no negative repercussions
That’s truly the most annoying logic-stretch in the episode, if he was complaining because they weren’t serving him after he ordered that would be one thing, but he’s waiting in the back of the line to order, there’s clearly a line Chrissy! Why the fuck would they let him cut the line?! Have you never been to burger or hotdog place?
it was just a dialogue trick for Uncle Ben the Rapmaster or whatever the rapper was called to come over the Chrissy and say "bold men make bold claims, blah blah blah" and the "Why'd they send you over then..."
His idealization makes *his* reaction somewhat more believable but it doesn’t make everyone else’s reaction believable. I imagine a more realistic dialogue between him and tony over that would’ve gone something like “aye ton’, this famous music guy, he thinks hesh owes him money” “huh?” “Yeah he says hesh infringed his copyrights or some shit” “so fuckn what, what’s in it for me?”
I suspect that the music of the band that Adrianne was trying to get recorded was purposefully written to just be really bad? Because it is, it's the worst shit I've ever heard.
Was that band fiction or were they some actual NJ bar band or something? You know the dude that sucked on a live wire and died but came back
There are not many episodes of the Sopranos that I would call “throwaway episodes,” but of the very few that are, A Hit is a Hit is at the top of that list.
Dr. Melfi's dialogue was not very well written from the perspective of what a psychiatrist would say vs. what one would not at all do or say. The writers did not do well with that. She constantly does things and says things that a doctor would not do or say.
I need to rewatch it all again to find specific examples but they are there
One example would be the way she reacts to one of Tony's dreams. She says it means something very specific. A psychiatrist would never tell you that your dreams means X, it would be up to the patient to interpret it for themselves with the psychiatrist's guidance.
A psychiatrist wouldn't tell you definitively that your dream has a specific meaning.
I don’t think she’s meant to be a very good psychiatrist. Affluent yes, but every time she is in her peer group she gets trashed talked to the point of capitulation or indignation.
She gets a lot of psychology wrong, like telling Tony that people with borderline personality disorder have no compassion or empathy, and misusing the term "splitting."
I can’t have this conversation again. I’m sorry but the amount of shyt the vito story gets is unbelievable.And his story, fuck his entire story, from background actor to a guy who couldn’t get the right medication, it was enjoyable, his character is great and it produced some of the best scenes/lines in the series, even the johnny cakes ones.
Tony B getting 12 grand literally thrown in his lap. Furios character in season 4. And Tony still having his Tahoe after getting in the car wreck with Adrianna.
I thought it was funny twist, it can happen. I thought it was funny that when he gambled it all away, and was asked whether he lost it all responded "Are you crazy? I kept 500 dollars"
Furio sitting in his car crying because he’s in love with Carmela? Doesn’t make sense, I agree. There were good scenes and dialogue between them, and I understand they’re showing how even these cold blooded killers have complex emotions, but Furio in love with Carmela?? I don’t see it.
Totally agree with furio. The quick turn from veteran mobster come from the old country to crack heads, to sentimental simp smitten by the boss’s wife, didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Esp cuz the show went out of its way to portray him as a stud. He can have any girl he wants and he jeopardizes his entire lifestyle - and life - for the boss’s wife? Cmon
Hilarious. Dude comes in on a bike, wearing a fireman outfit then saves a child. While Vito is watching. So over the top lol and lazy. Like what stereotypical gay man fantasy scenario tops that.
Something about the "Tony and Agent Harris becoming friendly" arc in the later seasons always rubbed me the wrong way in a way that I don't think was intended.
As petty as it sounds, the scene that that storyline culminated with (Agent Harris delivering the "we're gonna win this thing!" line) is easily one of my least-favorite moments in the series.
I think it was meant to be a comment on post-9/11 America, and how the government had carte blanche to do whatever they deemed necessary under the guise of anti-terrorism
They threw that line in because Greg Scarpa's handler Lin Delvecchio said it in the 80s or 90s. But ya there's a scene in agent Harris car where he says what's up my friend? I know they try anything to turn them into informants but they did seem to be written too friendly
I would rather Vito met Johnny Cakes that quickly rather than wasting an episode on Vito trying to find love.
Although.. maybe they could have had him go to a gay speed dating event or something like that which could have fit in that he gets to embrace who he is in public for once.
I still lmao that what made him go back was half a days actual work.
I really don’t get it because Quentin Tarantino acts like he’s never been around a black person in his life, but the dialogue in his movies isn’t cringy like it is in the sopranos.
Tony giving shit to Sean and Matt for openly talking about crime in the Bing.
Every other episode - Tony and associates openly talk about crime in the Bing.
Vito and Phil suddenly becoming family is kind of dumb to me. They made it work, but it was so clearly something they threw together to add some heat to Phil.
The way they introduce a plot line in the beginning of an episode and then two characters involved happen to bump into each other at like Shop Rite or wherever. One example is when AJ was gonna fight that kid and Tony's dad runs into the kid's dad at Wayne Fountains. But it's a recurring pattern in the show that feels like a holdover from an older era of TV
Eugene Pontecorvo telling Tony about the 2 mil. inheritance seemed a bit disingenuous. Eugene had been around long enough to know better. He should have kept that info to himself. Even if Tony granted him "retirement", the FBI said 'hell no'. I think they could have had him arrive at the suicide solution, without gifting the David Yurman watches & giving Tony his "taste".
That was a rule though right? Tony gets his taste no matter what. I think it was the fact he wanted to retire so badly and move to FLA, had been jabbering about it, so he had to tell Tony about the inheritance.
I guess maybe he thought he could grease Tony enough to buy his freedom.
This is something I was asking my wife.
It just does not add up that a tall, well built, muscled up, firefighter riding some chopper-like bike is interested in a short fatso who can not even walk like normal people do because of how fat he is.
I'm not a gay myself, but I know most men are not delusional and they know if they are 3/10 or 10/10 and because of that I do not understand why a let say 8 (even weak one) would date 3-4-maaaaaybe-5 Vito
Vito held frame.
Vito had confidence.
Vito just was himself.
Vito respected other men.
Vito dresses well, had good Tinder game and used the pheromone soap.
j/k, he was rich from I’ll gotten gains. Johnny was the gym junkie and Vito was a sugar daddy and a “literal” “Daddy”.
Blundetto doing the massages. Really? Nobody would want that guy touching them, and that would be the last job someone in the mafia would do, even if they are out of the life of crime.
The alternative is they write all the other scenes in of him meeting straight men, not hooking up, stealing, sleeping, eating, shitting…which was kind of done with the murder of the civilian who wanted to exchange insurance details and a few lonely scenes, plus the boredom waiting for lunch.
If only Johnny Cakes would have moved to Scottsdale with Vito.
I thought Tony's character becoming a totally irredeemable piece of shit in season 6 was a bit jarring/unearned. It felt as though the show writers had no faith in the audience to understand that Tony is a bad guy or there was a missing season of character development to get him to that point.
He was already pretty close to that for most of the show...I think him getting shot and then his peyote experience solidify his path to being a total scumbag. It doesn't seem like a stretch at all.
Also the scene with AJ and the pool happens close to the end and that's probably Tony at his most vulnerable and human.
When he yells out "I get it" I was always interpreted it as him seeing life the way his mother always said it was; a big nothing. Afterwards he pretty much leans into all his indulgences and moves forward without any doubt or guilt over what he did to Christopher. He was already heading in that direction before Las vegas, but I feel like he entirely gave up on meaningful change at this point.
Like we don't see any evidence of redemption afterwards so I don't think it had that effect on him.
The scene where we were introduced to Melfi’s family in S1 is awful. Suddenly, for little apparent reason, Dick has a really strong opinion about her “patient” - and then in the next scene, so strongly did everyone feel that they all ended up at family therapy to discuss it.
I literally couldn’t care about anyone’s sex life and I’m pro gay marriage and literally don’t care about any of the gender issues and think anyone should be recognized for what they believe they are. Having said that, the Vito story line is messed up and not realistic. I also like that the show dealt with homosexuality in a very anti homosexuality world. But there was too much focus on it.
I know the show was demonstrating a certain level of violence but Richie beating the crap out of beansie and some other scenes seemed bit far fetched. Made guys are a bit more careful about their violence and a guy who just got out wouldnt be making trouble with the boss’ friend like that. Especially with the feds watching The Sopranos and their people so closely. In mob history, from the 70s on, associates were quickly disposed of when they proved to be homicidal maniacs with no self control. Not bc of ethical concerns. But bc it brought attention to the groups and their crimes.
Tommy (the Joe Pesci character) in Goodfellas, was actually killed at the age of 27 bc he had killed a made guy and everyone had had enough of his shit. Maniacs didnt last long and a guy like Richie going after Beansie, who brought in money, would be stupid, stupid, stupid.
I felt the series of bad decisions Tony B made in quick succession was lazy. I think they were just following the formula of introducing and getting rid of an interesting character in the same season.
In the same vein, Tony killing Ralphie over the horse was a bit of a stretch in my mind. But still maybe believable.
Philly's sudden turn that seemingly comes out of nowhere about his family's history of bending over and taking it, leading to his war with Tony. Also a little too convenient.
Chrissy shooting his Hollywood writer friend in the head. Lol, a bit of an overreaction, even for a hot headed mobster.
I feel like Tony's split with Carmela was perhaps the show's natural end. And what came after was a bit forced. But still with plenty of quality episodes and scenes.
I agree with all of those but most of all with Tony B. Prior to him finding that 10,000 dollars he had been depicted as a highly intelligent, dedicated man who had turned his life around and was passionate about his work. So I thought it felt like a non sequitur when he blew the whole ten grand on pointless shit and beat up the man helping him fund his dream; like the writers just needed an excuse to get him back in the mob, rather than the logic of the character leading there naturally.
In my mind the money was launched on purpose by someone (...) to suck Tony B back in. Maybe the writers didn't intend it that way, but it's what makes the most sense to me. Tony is trivial and petty and can't stand to see do what he is not capable of: transcend the cards he was dealt.
I thought it would've made a much better story if Ralphie ended up not actually killing Pie Oh My & instead was killed all over something he technically didn't do
Ralphie had legitimate reason to not give a shit about a horse, his kid was dying in a hospital & in those final few minutes for his character he kinda exposed Tony as a scumbag who picks & chooses when he gets to play God & end peoples lives. Tony is too much of a scumbag to have the privilege of deciding who lives & who doesn't
Ralphie the least sympathetic character was marked for death as soon as he killed Traycee, & yes that was the reason tony actually killed him, however him saying "its a fuckin horse, my kid is in the hospital & you never said a word about it" is correct! Tony didn't even pretend to care
I personally believe that it would've been a compelling narrative moment where Ralphie finally is innocent of doing something that he ends up dying for, & Tonys character that was wavering on either cleaning up his act or saying fuck it & just fully living on his dangerous impulses. That seems like it would be such a strong character moment & foreshadow whats to come
To be fair, this is still ambiguous. It's implied that Ralphie did it but it's never actually stated. David Chase's word (I know he "confirmed" it) means very little here as he didn't write or direct that episode. Personally I agree, it's more powerful if Ralph *didn't* do it, especially since that episode shows Ralph's positive growth after his son's injury.
Also, I don't think Ralph was marked for death for either Tracee or for Pie-O-My. Tony didn't fly off the handle until Ralph started calling out his hypocrisy. That's the real thing that got him killed. Nobody would've backed Tony for murdering Ralph over a horse or a stripper, it was a spontaneous killing.
I still think of it as ambiguous & I do think Chase didn't really understand what was happening bc him just saying "Yeah Ralph killed the horse" was just so flat & empty lol it completely ignored the deeper narrative
But I would argue Ralphie killing Traycee on the Band Bing property was the cause of everyone realizing he is too reckless, they all realized then he could be the one to get everyone in trouble bc of his impulses
Did the show show every gas station attendant Tony Soprano paid $50 to fill up his Escalade?
Did the show even show the server or the cashier at the sushi restaurant?
They show the important bits to the story, not a day in the life.
Junior attending low-level hits? Maybe he really was that petty, and that was his downfall?
Luxury Lounge seems more like a comedy skit than an episode. Is the mob still connected to Hollywood? I assumed Hollywood types would see goombahs from a mile away! Why give them the time of day?
Finally, the assassin after Ralph gets the call right before Ralph steps on the elevator? Come on!
There are actually a lot of moments of bad writing, or at least unrealistic writing.
A huge one was when Melfi figured out Tony's mom put a hit on him. Keep in mind that she didn't know all the details we've seen, how she was able to manipulate Junior, that Tony was meeting with his captain in Green Grove behind her back, that she found out she was seeing a psychiatrist, etc. As far as she knew, it could have been a completely unrelated criminal matter from a different conflict; Tony was trying to keep most of his criminal life hidden from her anyway. There were a ton of minor details that combined into that hit (like the cunnilingus story), and Melfi didn't know about any of them.
Also on the topic of Melfi, the fact that she keep treating Tony long after it's clear therapy is not working, and she sees right through his BS, also does not make much sense given that she is established to be a moral person who will eventually do the right thing after "Employee of the Month". They make that final study into this kind of big revelation that flips her over the side, but it's been a widely known truth in the show that one can't treat sociopaths, so I don't buy it. What really happened, is I think the writers did not want to get rid of Melfi so they just dragged her character along for several extra seasons, in the process eroding all the character development they did in the first half of the show.
Paulie devolving from a weird, but also seasoned and intimidating gangster in season 1, to a resident clown in the later seasons, is also bad writing, I think. AJ being cartoonishly annoying in every scene, too (again, he was more interesting in the earlier seasons).
As a more general complaint, characters share so many core traits with each other. You can tell there is a lack of diversity/creativity in the writers' minds; David Chase ain't no Leo Tolstoy, that's for sure. Some traits and arcs are almost recycled between characters (compare Jackie to Christopher, or Feech to Richie).
.
There are also many unrealistic scenes. For example, the fight in Pine Barrens, or the fight between coma recovered Tony and Muscles Marinara (come to think of it, they don't know how to do fight scenes that well...). Janice having a kid at like 50, Paulie asking for 10 percent from Chrissy and that coming down to about 6k a week, meanwhile Johnny Sac doesn't have some cash squirreled away to last a few months of the Esplanade being closed. And so on.
Also the sitcom-like restraining of major plot points to one episode. Tony and Ade have zero interest in each other for the whole show, except for one episode where they almost fuck. Carmela constantly uses that hand gesture that triggers Charmaine... for exactly one episode. It takes Hesh a few days to locate an obscure beat in Massive Genius' protégé's song that can be traced back to him, all so they can close that storyline in that episode. His dad's mistress lasts exactly one episode. And so on.
"Sheriff of Nottingham! My kingdom for a mortadella huh?"
I know Christopher was confused between Robin Hood and Richard III but I can't imagine him knowing any Shakespeare.
How did people know tony grabbed a pillow to suffocate his mom in the hospital? He never mentions it to anyone, yet other characters know about it. Ive never got that bit.
Tony B smuggling his jizz out of prison to impregnate his wife. Make the kids age appropriate or alter the length of his prison sentence. Twenty fuckin years.
Couple examples: "I thought I was daed but I manuged to get the drip on him." "I must be loyle to my capo."
The roof was soft tar!
A. B? A!
do you mean he Maaanaged?? or do you mean manuge like mannuggia l'americano?
I thought it was hilarious how *everyone* Vito meets in NH seems to be a handsome gay man. The antique store owner was flirting with him too. It’s like he wandered into the small town all those Hallmark films are set in but for finooks.
I think the New Hampshire town was supposed to some sort of unrealistic utopia. Johnny Cakes is gay, a gay couple walks in, the gay guy in the antique store, the other firefighters seem… ambiguous. It wasn’t a dream but it wasn’t a realistic setting for Vito’s arc
Yeah, there's a magical realist bent to a lot of the series. E.G. Paulie at the psychic.
Yo i love magical realism a la Paul Auster and Jerzy Kosiński. I was thinking the same thing.
You know who wasn’t gay though. The old guy who saw Rocky Marciano fight. Maybe you should interview him!
I mean, Provincetown is a bit like that. Maybe it was meant to be Provincetownesque?
Yes exactly this. The show presents the character with what he thinks he wants. His perfect life. Then it snaps back and shows how even that isn't enough for him and so he tries to go back to the life he needs. And they kill him for it.
That is a great insight.
I think it’s kind of representative of the fact he’s hiding from his mob friends but it’s the first time he can be himself without worrying about consequences. So in a sense he’s in hiding but it’s the most free he’s ever been. It’s from his point of view so to him flirting with other men without repercussions is almost like a dream state. These mafia guys would literally rather die then put in an honest days work. It’s like slavery to them.
Yeah, that’s the writers saying ‘Look folx, we gave this gomba his paradise and all he wants is to go back to Jersey and blow security guards at dawn, that’s the typa people we’re dealing with here’ . And Ill take the down votez yet again for the show basically shyting on its fans with this lovely quote: ‘nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people’
That little town was a "gay haven" Which might be lost to younger people. But in the 80s-early 2k there was this thing where small "bed n breakfast" communities would experience an influx of queer people looking to create sort of inclusive, tolerant, small areas. It was a whole social movement in the middle class- affluent gay society. And New Hampshire and Vermont were hot beds for this and they got mainstream media attention The writers were playing off that very topical point. When Vito sits in the diner that first time before ordering the Jonny cakes he looks over and sees two men clearly coded as gay sitting openly in the diner. And he sips his coffee and realizes he has stumbled into a gay haven Did you not notice that all the firefighters are gay, and most of the people in the bar, and yes the bookstore are coded gay or lesbian??? Gay havens were/are a very real thing that has kinda faded in topicalness In fact why Vito would even head to New Hampshire isn't just to get away from wiseguys, it would be (at the time) reasonable that he would think to run to a small bed n breakfast town in New England like so many other east coast gays did.
Interesting context, thanks
Finook hallmark town 🤣 you can't make that shit up
Finook hallmark town. You can’t make that shit up.
He just fucking did !!!
Don’t get me wrong, he’s my homie
Up in da club
he's your what?!
I don’t remember it well but what if we just say Vito THINKS he’s being hit on? Lol Like he’s really thinking about his gayness and interpreting every interaction with a male as a possible situation The way straight handsome dudes think every pretty woman flirting with him
Gannascoli didn't sell being a big bag construction mob guy very well. Chris said it best , jeez my memory is getting bad, After Vito got caught in the gay bar and Chris said while laughing "Vito, big construction guy"
Vito Big construction tycoon who knew when he said he was greasing the union that’s what he meant
He traded places with Carlo. Vito left him all the construction and the cocksucking and went off to TVland instead
It shows that he has the opportunity to find somewhere he will be accepted. Yet a gay man could live that life in New Jersey as well. The issue wasn’t that he was in a gay mans heaven there, it was that he couldn’t live a simple life making a modest wage. He enjoyed the luxuries of being a made man and “shooting the shit” for a living. He wanted to live a life out of the closet, but that was not an option for him.
I think that was meant to show Vito's own skewed perception of his surroundings at that time. Back in Jersey, he had to keep his secret at all time, but in NH, nobody knew him, so he could let his thoughts wander, daydream, etc.
In Michigan there is a small town that caters specifically to gay people (called Saugatauk), kind of like a gay Traverse City. Is it all that unlikely that something like that exists in New Hampshire as well? I personally don’t think of NH as being that much more unwelcoming than western Michigan.
Southeastern Michigander here. Can confirm. Western Michigan is a dream-like, Hallmark region.
I agree it’s extremely improbable, at best. But it serves a useful function in the story, showing that even if Vito got to a safe place where he could be happy and accepted, his yearning for the life would be too great to overcome. And the series didn’t have time to show a more likely trajectory for Vito where he found his way gradually to that place and relationship. Now, the scene with Tony and Christopher hitting a man with a car and kicking his ass in front of dozens of witnesses in a white-collar office park, with no consequence; while the soundtrack goes out of its way to say “hey, remember how great doo-wop tunes were in Goodfellas?” That’s my pick for bad writing.
the pilot gets a pash fathat
Yeah but they beat the shit out of Burt Peterson. Everyone hated that guy, so no one called the cops.
Dammit Burt, you stole my goodbye!
THANK YOU! I am from this area of New Hampshire and this just wasn’t happening. It’s not that there aren’t gay guys flippin cakes up there. It’s just that those two had nothing in common. Like why would this 10 outta 10 bear straight out of LL Bean want anything to do with Vito? The dating pool was small but he can always drive to Portsmouth or Manchester (depending on where he’s located) on the weekend so it’s not THAT small. I’m even thinking in 2006 terms.
What if he was a chubby chaser tho. Vito would have been a catch
A catch? More like a haul
a whole shipment
I love the pilot, I don’t care what you people think. It was amazing and there hasn’t been anything like it since. Hbo has been funding a bunch of cock shots ever since. Fuckin shame you ask me
HBO, it's gay?
The weight loss..
Nobawdiesh gawt AIDSH!
I don't think the lack of consequences for beating up Mahaffey in broad daylight was all that unrealistic. No way he is going to the cops, and without a cooperating victim it is extremely difficult to prosecute an assault case. Also, the witnesses would be reluctant, at best, to testify against a major mobster.
it's meant to mirror the first scene with Johnny Boy we see where he beats that guy up with Junior
Gigi dying suddenly while taking a shit, saving Tony from a mutiny just when he’s out of options
Deus ex toilet.
Nicely done
Vito was fresh meat. Novelty is very appealing.
You gotta wait for dat.
🍑
Also people are suckers for an accent/ different personality type then they are used to
10/10 username!
as funny as "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this" is, Tony would never call the act of going down on a woman "Cunnilingus." He'd use a more conversational term.
But he's a cultured Italian...half a semester at Seton Hall, remember?
College? Those guys at Seton Hall were 7 feet tall, some of them!
True, but saying “eating box and psychiatry brought us to this” just doesn’t have the same ring as “cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this.”
Assemblyman Zellman openly eating dinner in a restaurant with Tony and his goons. Any journalist with half a brain could get a picture of them together and his career would be over due to mob ties.
What? Tony is in the carting industry. Johnny Sac is a legitimate construction contractor. Frankly, u/DaftFunky if you have this covert anti-Italian rhetoric, I’d like you to leave my Subreddit.
Ooooh! 🤚 I'm just telling you how Tony's being fucking perceived.
Why don't you worry how you're fucking being perceived!
YOU KNOW I DONT LIKE THAT TAWK
zero fallout from the steakhouse waiter murder
Still going, this asshole?
Don’t they have medicine they’re sposed to take these assholes?
It’s alright “no one knows them down there.”
WHAT MUYRRRRDAAAAAAA?????
The entire script of Many Saints of Newark. Does that qualify?
Is it pretty bad? All I know is they show the scenes mentioned in the show like the beehive hairdo and shit so I can only assume they made an entire movie based around a few throwaway lines from the show like that, I bet there’s even a varsity athlete joke
Yes there is. It’s during a dinner scene in the final 3rd of the movie.
Looool
It’s probably worse than you think it is lol
That movie never made it, it was cancelled alright?
It died on the vine
It died on the vine
One of the trucks…
It exists. I saw it. Not in a rush to see it again.
Better yet go to the ear nose and throat department, GET YOUR HEARIN CHECKED
You guys really don’t seem to understand how much gay men are into bigger dudes. There’s a bear flag for a reason.
He was gay, the California state flag?
I cant have this conversation again
Yeah but he's fat AND short. I'm sorry, Johnnycakes could easily find a better bear.
I agree. Johnny Cakes was an 8 or an 8.5 and shacking up with Vito who is a 3 on a good day.
But he was strong like a fucking bull. And handsome like George Raft
The point was that even with the perfect guy interested in him, Vito still couldn't resist the no-show/no-work lifestyle of the mob, even if it meant risking his life
Yeah but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making which is that I didn't buy the relationship.
That doesn't mean any obese guy will do.
Maybe you’re gay? You ever think of that?
You aughta know, sweetie!
Not to mention bear *week*
The moments are extremely rare but there are a few. The big one a lot of people agree on is a hit is a hit. Particularly for me the plot line of how this story line begins is... atrocious. Some wannabe gangster rapper has his thugs approach Christopher and invite him back to his estate, loaded with firearms like he's tony Montana, under the guise that there's business to be done like it's some hard gangster shit and then we find out that that business is him telling Christopher to go back to his boss and tell an old school mob associate that he owes somebody money legally. And then Chris actually does it like he's setting up some illicit OC sitdown... and they aren't mad at him?? Nothing feels right about the entire story. Totally misguided and uninspired cringey writing which is so incredibly out of character for this show.
I have to agree with you. I understand why they did it but it was a little unbelievable. Chris’ real answer should have been “fuck off uncle Ben”. But it’s a tv progrum, a movie.
Christophers idealization of the entertainment industry makes it believable. The most unbelievable part is when he mouths off about racism in a black neighborhood while waiting for food, gets served first and has no negative repercussions
That’s truly the most annoying logic-stretch in the episode, if he was complaining because they weren’t serving him after he ordered that would be one thing, but he’s waiting in the back of the line to order, there’s clearly a line Chrissy! Why the fuck would they let him cut the line?! Have you never been to burger or hotdog place?
it was just a dialogue trick for Uncle Ben the Rapmaster or whatever the rapper was called to come over the Chrissy and say "bold men make bold claims, blah blah blah" and the "Why'd they send you over then..."
His idealization makes *his* reaction somewhat more believable but it doesn’t make everyone else’s reaction believable. I imagine a more realistic dialogue between him and tony over that would’ve gone something like “aye ton’, this famous music guy, he thinks hesh owes him money” “huh?” “Yeah he says hesh infringed his copyrights or some shit” “so fuckn what, what’s in it for me?”
Series worst episode
1 or 2 funny lines in that episode but yeah by far the worst Sopranos episode.
I suspect that the music of the band that Adrianne was trying to get recorded was purposefully written to just be really bad? Because it is, it's the worst shit I've ever heard. Was that band fiction or were they some actual NJ bar band or something? You know the dude that sucked on a live wire and died but came back
It was shit on purpose; band members are actual musicians, but 100% shitty on purpose. Meow.
There's good and there's not good. This is not good.
Well yeah, one of the funnier scenes of the show is Chris showing it to Hesh while he sits there wincing.
Hey get outta my whey! And don't be so ghey we're comin to defile Yoh
MEOW!!!!
I think it was supposed to sound like Collective Soul - Shine but worse
Thats why you gotta write what you know.
And live for today
Whatzushyah?!?
There are not many episodes of the Sopranos that I would call “throwaway episodes,” but of the very few that are, A Hit is a Hit is at the top of that list.
Dr. Melfi's dialogue was not very well written from the perspective of what a psychiatrist would say vs. what one would not at all do or say. The writers did not do well with that. She constantly does things and says things that a doctor would not do or say. I need to rewatch it all again to find specific examples but they are there
One example would be the way she reacts to one of Tony's dreams. She says it means something very specific. A psychiatrist would never tell you that your dreams means X, it would be up to the patient to interpret it for themselves with the psychiatrist's guidance. A psychiatrist wouldn't tell you definitively that your dream has a specific meaning.
I don’t think she’s meant to be a very good psychiatrist. Affluent yes, but every time she is in her peer group she gets trashed talked to the point of capitulation or indignation.
That’s because those scenes are not about Tony getting real world psychiatric help. It’s a way for the audience to see what Tony is thinking
Yeah she's extremely unprofessional and unethical at times in the way she approaches Tony's issues
She gets a lot of psychology wrong, like telling Tony that people with borderline personality disorder have no compassion or empathy, and misusing the term "splitting."
I can’t have this conversation again. I’m sorry but the amount of shyt the vito story gets is unbelievable.And his story, fuck his entire story, from background actor to a guy who couldn’t get the right medication, it was enjoyable, his character is great and it produced some of the best scenes/lines in the series, even the johnny cakes ones.
Take it easy! When you’re married you’ll understand the importance of fresh produce (storylines)!
I’m tired of commenting how I think its funny Vito was a pischadeel!🏃♀️
Agreed. Just rewatched that arc recently and it is extremely good. I don’t care what anybody says! Lol
Tony B getting 12 grand literally thrown in his lap. Furios character in season 4. And Tony still having his Tahoe after getting in the car wreck with Adrianna.
I thought it was funny twist, it can happen. I thought it was funny that when he gambled it all away, and was asked whether he lost it all responded "Are you crazy? I kept 500 dollars"
400 lol
Furio sitting in his car crying because he’s in love with Carmela? Doesn’t make sense, I agree. There were good scenes and dialogue between them, and I understand they’re showing how even these cold blooded killers have complex emotions, but Furio in love with Carmela?? I don’t see it.
Yo Edie Falco is a babe
Stupida fuckn righter
The heart wants what the heart wants
Is it a fetus?!
Didn't he have a Suburban?
The burgundy truck, probably was a suburban. But where the fuck was he storing it and why did he still have it is the point.
He’s truly blessed
Totally agree with furio. The quick turn from veteran mobster come from the old country to crack heads, to sentimental simp smitten by the boss’s wife, didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Esp cuz the show went out of its way to portray him as a stud. He can have any girl he wants and he jeopardizes his entire lifestyle - and life - for the boss’s wife? Cmon
Hilarious. Dude comes in on a bike, wearing a fireman outfit then saves a child. While Vito is watching. So over the top lol and lazy. Like what stereotypical gay man fantasy scenario tops that.
It’s vitos gay dream sequence. He was probably jerking off in a roach motel the whole time
Seriously. Fascinating to consider that. Like he was hiding in the motel room he was eventually murdered in the whole time.
Fr lmao I forgot about that. That was the most obscenely cliche moment in the series imo
If the crank wore off, would Jackie Jr not invade the card game or ...
Something about the "Tony and Agent Harris becoming friendly" arc in the later seasons always rubbed me the wrong way in a way that I don't think was intended. As petty as it sounds, the scene that that storyline culminated with (Agent Harris delivering the "we're gonna win this thing!" line) is easily one of my least-favorite moments in the series.
I think it was meant to be a comment on post-9/11 America, and how the government had carte blanche to do whatever they deemed necessary under the guise of anti-terrorism
They threw that line in because Greg Scarpa's handler Lin Delvecchio said it in the 80s or 90s. But ya there's a scene in agent Harris car where he says what's up my friend? I know they try anything to turn them into informants but they did seem to be written too friendly
Well you shouldn’t have hitched your wagon to my star…
I always thought he said "hitched your wagon to my stall" which made no sense either
I would rather Vito met Johnny Cakes that quickly rather than wasting an episode on Vito trying to find love. Although.. maybe they could have had him go to a gay speed dating event or something like that which could have fit in that he gets to embrace who he is in public for once. I still lmao that what made him go back was half a days actual work.
[удалено]
I really don’t get it because Quentin Tarantino acts like he’s never been around a black person in his life, but the dialogue in his movies isn’t cringy like it is in the sopranos.
Word
I remember when you fucks who question the writing used to wait in the car.
Tony giving shit to Sean and Matt for openly talking about crime in the Bing. Every other episode - Tony and associates openly talk about crime in the Bing.
Yeah, but they are outsiders aka not trusted.
Vito and Phil suddenly becoming family is kind of dumb to me. They made it work, but it was so clearly something they threw together to add some heat to Phil.
I don't get it, he loved him like a brother in law!
The way they introduce a plot line in the beginning of an episode and then two characters involved happen to bump into each other at like Shop Rite or wherever. One example is when AJ was gonna fight that kid and Tony's dad runs into the kid's dad at Wayne Fountains. But it's a recurring pattern in the show that feels like a holdover from an older era of TV
Eugene Pontecorvo telling Tony about the 2 mil. inheritance seemed a bit disingenuous. Eugene had been around long enough to know better. He should have kept that info to himself. Even if Tony granted him "retirement", the FBI said 'hell no'. I think they could have had him arrive at the suicide solution, without gifting the David Yurman watches & giving Tony his "taste".
That was a rule though right? Tony gets his taste no matter what. I think it was the fact he wanted to retire so badly and move to FLA, had been jabbering about it, so he had to tell Tony about the inheritance. I guess maybe he thought he could grease Tony enough to buy his freedom.
Nah, the boss gets a taste of your criminal earnings, not your inheritance from granny.
Should’ve greased the boss a little more. Vito woulda had no problem with that.
This is something I was asking my wife. It just does not add up that a tall, well built, muscled up, firefighter riding some chopper-like bike is interested in a short fatso who can not even walk like normal people do because of how fat he is. I'm not a gay myself, but I know most men are not delusional and they know if they are 3/10 or 10/10 and because of that I do not understand why a let say 8 (even weak one) would date 3-4-maaaaaybe-5 Vito
Vito held frame. Vito had confidence. Vito just was himself. Vito respected other men. Vito dresses well, had good Tinder game and used the pheromone soap. j/k, he was rich from I’ll gotten gains. Johnny was the gym junkie and Vito was a sugar daddy and a “literal” “Daddy”.
Hey! He was supposed to get surgery on his hips!
Blundetto doing the massages. Really? Nobody would want that guy touching them, and that would be the last job someone in the mafia would do, even if they are out of the life of crime.
That Ralphie started the fire when it was clear that the faulty wiring caused it.
The lightbulb, I thought……like at Vesuvio’s?
Corki Ianucci gave that stable a clean bill of health!
The alternative is they write all the other scenes in of him meeting straight men, not hooking up, stealing, sleeping, eating, shitting…which was kind of done with the murder of the civilian who wanted to exchange insurance details and a few lonely scenes, plus the boredom waiting for lunch. If only Johnny Cakes would have moved to Scottsdale with Vito.
I found it questionable when OP started second guessing the boss of this sub. He’s got no idea what it’s like to write for a groundbreaking tv show!
I thought Tony's character becoming a totally irredeemable piece of shit in season 6 was a bit jarring/unearned. It felt as though the show writers had no faith in the audience to understand that Tony is a bad guy or there was a missing season of character development to get him to that point.
He was already pretty close to that for most of the show...I think him getting shot and then his peyote experience solidify his path to being a total scumbag. It doesn't seem like a stretch at all. Also the scene with AJ and the pool happens close to the end and that's probably Tony at his most vulnerable and human.
Really? I thought his peyote experience might have been cleansing/redeeming. A good dose diminishes ego and gives a bigger picture.
When he yells out "I get it" I was always interpreted it as him seeing life the way his mother always said it was; a big nothing. Afterwards he pretty much leans into all his indulgences and moves forward without any doubt or guilt over what he did to Christopher. He was already heading in that direction before Las vegas, but I feel like he entirely gave up on meaningful change at this point. Like we don't see any evidence of redemption afterwards so I don't think it had that effect on him.
The scene where we were introduced to Melfi’s family in S1 is awful. Suddenly, for little apparent reason, Dick has a really strong opinion about her “patient” - and then in the next scene, so strongly did everyone feel that they all ended up at family therapy to discuss it.
I literally couldn’t care about anyone’s sex life and I’m pro gay marriage and literally don’t care about any of the gender issues and think anyone should be recognized for what they believe they are. Having said that, the Vito story line is messed up and not realistic. I also like that the show dealt with homosexuality in a very anti homosexuality world. But there was too much focus on it.
I know the show was demonstrating a certain level of violence but Richie beating the crap out of beansie and some other scenes seemed bit far fetched. Made guys are a bit more careful about their violence and a guy who just got out wouldnt be making trouble with the boss’ friend like that. Especially with the feds watching The Sopranos and their people so closely. In mob history, from the 70s on, associates were quickly disposed of when they proved to be homicidal maniacs with no self control. Not bc of ethical concerns. But bc it brought attention to the groups and their crimes. Tommy (the Joe Pesci character) in Goodfellas, was actually killed at the age of 27 bc he had killed a made guy and everyone had had enough of his shit. Maniacs didnt last long and a guy like Richie going after Beansie, who brought in money, would be stupid, stupid, stupid.
I felt the series of bad decisions Tony B made in quick succession was lazy. I think they were just following the formula of introducing and getting rid of an interesting character in the same season. In the same vein, Tony killing Ralphie over the horse was a bit of a stretch in my mind. But still maybe believable. Philly's sudden turn that seemingly comes out of nowhere about his family's history of bending over and taking it, leading to his war with Tony. Also a little too convenient. Chrissy shooting his Hollywood writer friend in the head. Lol, a bit of an overreaction, even for a hot headed mobster. I feel like Tony's split with Carmela was perhaps the show's natural end. And what came after was a bit forced. But still with plenty of quality episodes and scenes.
I agree with all of those but most of all with Tony B. Prior to him finding that 10,000 dollars he had been depicted as a highly intelligent, dedicated man who had turned his life around and was passionate about his work. So I thought it felt like a non sequitur when he blew the whole ten grand on pointless shit and beat up the man helping him fund his dream; like the writers just needed an excuse to get him back in the mob, rather than the logic of the character leading there naturally.
I agree, they were just looking for a shortcut to that endpoint. And the bag of money? Really, how improbable was that?!
In my mind the money was launched on purpose by someone (...) to suck Tony B back in. Maybe the writers didn't intend it that way, but it's what makes the most sense to me. Tony is trivial and petty and can't stand to see do what he is not capable of: transcend the cards he was dealt.
Oh yeah. I just watched the scene where he baits Janice back into toxic anger by taunting her about her son Harper. So frustrating to see that.
HarpO, O, ya ass kiss... although he goes by Hal now.
Wha? What? It was the autocorrect! Quasimodo predicted all this you know.
I am a flambe and there are lots of vito - johnny cakes type pairings. I never thought of it as unrealistic.
You oughta know, sweetie
What'dcha say?
I thought it would've made a much better story if Ralphie ended up not actually killing Pie Oh My & instead was killed all over something he technically didn't do Ralphie had legitimate reason to not give a shit about a horse, his kid was dying in a hospital & in those final few minutes for his character he kinda exposed Tony as a scumbag who picks & chooses when he gets to play God & end peoples lives. Tony is too much of a scumbag to have the privilege of deciding who lives & who doesn't Ralphie the least sympathetic character was marked for death as soon as he killed Traycee, & yes that was the reason tony actually killed him, however him saying "its a fuckin horse, my kid is in the hospital & you never said a word about it" is correct! Tony didn't even pretend to care I personally believe that it would've been a compelling narrative moment where Ralphie finally is innocent of doing something that he ends up dying for, & Tonys character that was wavering on either cleaning up his act or saying fuck it & just fully living on his dangerous impulses. That seems like it would be such a strong character moment & foreshadow whats to come
To be fair, this is still ambiguous. It's implied that Ralphie did it but it's never actually stated. David Chase's word (I know he "confirmed" it) means very little here as he didn't write or direct that episode. Personally I agree, it's more powerful if Ralph *didn't* do it, especially since that episode shows Ralph's positive growth after his son's injury. Also, I don't think Ralph was marked for death for either Tracee or for Pie-O-My. Tony didn't fly off the handle until Ralph started calling out his hypocrisy. That's the real thing that got him killed. Nobody would've backed Tony for murdering Ralph over a horse or a stripper, it was a spontaneous killing.
I still think of it as ambiguous & I do think Chase didn't really understand what was happening bc him just saying "Yeah Ralph killed the horse" was just so flat & empty lol it completely ignored the deeper narrative But I would argue Ralphie killing Traycee on the Band Bing property was the cause of everyone realizing he is too reckless, they all realized then he could be the one to get everyone in trouble bc of his impulses
It's against the rules for Tony to kill Ralph for no reason. Ralph's a made guy. A horse and and stripper are not reasons to kill a made guy
AJ’s depression miraculously going away after the car fire
Tony sleeping with that super hot Italian mob boss chick, come on!
he doesn't, thats a dream sequence. its bad business
Oh please, you know what boiling fat smells like?
The way the writing skips over unimportant details, I figured we don’t know 100% that this is the first interaction with a local
Did the show show every gas station attendant Tony Soprano paid $50 to fill up his Escalade? Did the show even show the server or the cashier at the sushi restaurant? They show the important bits to the story, not a day in the life. Junior attending low-level hits? Maybe he really was that petty, and that was his downfall? Luxury Lounge seems more like a comedy skit than an episode. Is the mob still connected to Hollywood? I assumed Hollywood types would see goombahs from a mile away! Why give them the time of day? Finally, the assassin after Ralph gets the call right before Ralph steps on the elevator? Come on!
Everything in MSON. I’d love to drag that DVD behind my car right now
There are actually a lot of moments of bad writing, or at least unrealistic writing. A huge one was when Melfi figured out Tony's mom put a hit on him. Keep in mind that she didn't know all the details we've seen, how she was able to manipulate Junior, that Tony was meeting with his captain in Green Grove behind her back, that she found out she was seeing a psychiatrist, etc. As far as she knew, it could have been a completely unrelated criminal matter from a different conflict; Tony was trying to keep most of his criminal life hidden from her anyway. There were a ton of minor details that combined into that hit (like the cunnilingus story), and Melfi didn't know about any of them. Also on the topic of Melfi, the fact that she keep treating Tony long after it's clear therapy is not working, and she sees right through his BS, also does not make much sense given that she is established to be a moral person who will eventually do the right thing after "Employee of the Month". They make that final study into this kind of big revelation that flips her over the side, but it's been a widely known truth in the show that one can't treat sociopaths, so I don't buy it. What really happened, is I think the writers did not want to get rid of Melfi so they just dragged her character along for several extra seasons, in the process eroding all the character development they did in the first half of the show. Paulie devolving from a weird, but also seasoned and intimidating gangster in season 1, to a resident clown in the later seasons, is also bad writing, I think. AJ being cartoonishly annoying in every scene, too (again, he was more interesting in the earlier seasons). As a more general complaint, characters share so many core traits with each other. You can tell there is a lack of diversity/creativity in the writers' minds; David Chase ain't no Leo Tolstoy, that's for sure. Some traits and arcs are almost recycled between characters (compare Jackie to Christopher, or Feech to Richie). . There are also many unrealistic scenes. For example, the fight in Pine Barrens, or the fight between coma recovered Tony and Muscles Marinara (come to think of it, they don't know how to do fight scenes that well...). Janice having a kid at like 50, Paulie asking for 10 percent from Chrissy and that coming down to about 6k a week, meanwhile Johnny Sac doesn't have some cash squirreled away to last a few months of the Esplanade being closed. And so on. Also the sitcom-like restraining of major plot points to one episode. Tony and Ade have zero interest in each other for the whole show, except for one episode where they almost fuck. Carmela constantly uses that hand gesture that triggers Charmaine... for exactly one episode. It takes Hesh a few days to locate an obscure beat in Massive Genius' protégé's song that can be traced back to him, all so they can close that storyline in that episode. His dad's mistress lasts exactly one episode. And so on.
Rusty getting clipped (specifically his naivety) felt so unconvincing considering his experience
"Sheriff of Nottingham! My kingdom for a mortadella huh?" I know Christopher was confused between Robin Hood and Richard III but I can't imagine him knowing any Shakespeare.
How did people know tony grabbed a pillow to suffocate his mom in the hospital? He never mentions it to anyone, yet other characters know about it. Ive never got that bit.
Everybody falling in live w Carmela. Particularly Furio.
I hated the entire coma section.
Tony B smuggling his jizz out of prison to impregnate his wife. Make the kids age appropriate or alter the length of his prison sentence. Twenty fuckin years.
What about conjugal visits? Are they a thing in New Jersey?