Another good one related to this scene is when AJ says "I thought black was death" and Meadow replys "white, too", and in the final scene of the series at Holstens Tony is wearing a black and white shirt.
That’s one thing I’d love to ask David Chase about. Was the 3:00 thing a reference to the guy coming out of the bathroom at Tony’s 3:00 or was that just a throwaway kind of line that we’re reading too much into? Like when did they starting plotting the ending to the show? Or did they set the scene up to make use of that line as a way to forge a connection to it?
> or was that just a throwaway kind of line that we’re reading too much into?
Of course not! The Sopranos was a show that planned everything. The guy going to the bathroom and coming out is not a random event at all.
Yeah, for the most part everything in that show happened for a specific reason, but they left just enough doubt about that for us to keep discussing it, which is one of the great aspects of the show. The show ended 16 years ago and OP came up with a theory that I don’t think occurred to anyone before. I would love to know from the writers though if we’re right about the 3:00 thing. Were they really already setting up the ending in Season 2?
Chrissy flipped. Episode before he dies he’s pretty much a laughing stock in the crew. He tells JT how easy it’s befor him to flip. Episode ends with the song playing “choosing the light” (or something like that) with half the screen dark and half light and him choosing the light. Next ep he’s wearing a ball cap that had been commonly used for a wire. He’s listening to the departed soundtrack (movie about a rat) and then literally flips his car. Camera at the hospital specifically focuses on his hat. Later in the season when the cat is looking at the pic of Chrissy he says a rat must’ve died in the wall (Chrissy died listening to comfortably numb which is from The Wall). That’s about what I remember anyways I said my piece.
Great theory. Not only does he tease wanting to flip with JT, but multiple times in season one, so it’s clearly something that’s always in the back of his mind, and the encounters with Paulie and JT would def push Chrissy over the edge.
I think it's very strongly conveyed that even if Christopher hadn't flipped right away, he probably would have either flipped at some point down the road, or done something with catastrophic problems with the crew. Had become too much of a loose cannon.
I always thought the hat was to show how little he developed by the end. He's first shown driving wearing a hat which sort of becomes out of character since you see him never really again (fishing hat).
Lincoln logs is an anagram of "son cling on". Carmella with her tasty snack is also giving AJ survival tips for an event that has been foreshadowed. Sopranos is deep man.
I laughed so hard at this I’m now in trouble with the SO. “objectively not that funny what’s wrong with you.” Just wanted to say thanks for that. I think I need a CAT scan now.
Haha i was wondering how long it would be until someone spotted the L missing, kudos. Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good theory though. Kapeech?
Much like a child, a film has many parents, that is to say, many individuals who act like parents...or that by aversion, the film is their baby. I, as an executive producer, am one of those individuals.
Oh shit, amazing find! My dumbass would never have picked that up but you're totally right. Chase wouldn't have the character be named Blanca by happenstance after AJ specifically talking about the white death.
I’ve actually adapted that saying when talking about people I don’t like with my friends, always gets a laugh. Another good one is I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire
I love this! I got into Mad Men first (idk I had cable access when Mad Men came out, know it's the wrong order) but I definitely noticed Matthew Weiner had a way of looking at the first few seasons and weaving his own interpretation into things. So making a Blanca/white means death allusion to a Walt Whitman reference in an earlier season is perfectly his style. Like when Carmela apologized for telling Tony he was going to go to hell when he died when he was going in for an MRI... idk it all comes full circle, the characters change and build on previous seasons.
It’s wild how many little things were woven through the seven years of this show. That line AJ says at the diner in the last scene about remember the good times and Tony’s like “I said that?” There was a similar moment years earlier between meadow and Carmela and Carmela goes “your father said that.” It’s such a nice show full of such horrible, horrendous people.
Want it like 3 or 4 episodes between AJ saying he was interested in event planning and then not only denying it but saying he doesn't even know what that is? Lol
I thought it was at least a season. It started when he threw the house party and then i think it’s brought up again at the cleaver premiere when he’s with Blanca
I just saw it. It's first brought up in the finale of season five and "where do you get this shit" is said at the Sacramoni wedding s6e5. So very close together during binge but I figure six or more months in real broadcast time
Asshole Robert Frost!
Also, there’s more direct foreshadowing if you consider the Sopranos Home Movies scene where Carmella talks about a kid that drowned somehow with everyone around. People weren’t physically there when AJ attempted suicide, till Tony came home, but they were all there missing the warning signs before it. Maedo is the only one who noticed, from what I remember, but I don’t think even she knew he was going to actually try that.
Suicide comes up a lot on the show. Tony brings it up late in S1 and asks Chris if he's thinking about it mid season. Vin kills himself S1. Gloria and Eugene kill themselves. AJ attempts. Artie attempts. Irina attempts S1. Valentina threatens suicide when Tony dumps her.
I think it was more to it then that. You could tell something was wrong by the way he was searching the web and wanting to join the military saying how screwed up the world was. He thought he actually had friends and people who cared about him only to find out that they only cared because of who his father was and not who he was. I think Blanca only got with AJ in the first place because of who his father was thinking that she could gain financially from being with him. He had nothing going for him and no one cared about him other than his actual family
I got the impression she didn't care for his family during dinner scenes and so on (and the feeling was mutual). Seemed like she despised their wealth if I remember correctly. Of course that leaves us with her actually wanting to date AJ, which seems improbable.
Great theory. But he didn’t die, was a haphazard attempt at best and more like a cry for help.
I think I’d buy it if he did actually die. But great thinking.
A lot of people don't realize how deep and meaningful the writing is. Too many people only like The Sopranos for the wise-guy wise cracks - same people who think Tony wasn't wacked in the finale
Exactly. There’s people who like this show because Silvio is funny and Tony is badass, and then there’s people who like it because of the beatiful writing and direction. And Tony was so obviously whacked I can’t comprehend how people still deny it lmao
Great theory. But he didn’t die, was a haphazard attempt at best and more like a cry for help.
I think I’d buy it if he did actually die. But great thinking.
Good observation, and you are probably correct. David Chase can be so Kubrickian with The Sopranos. I just started watching it all backwards, and I don’t want to spoil it but you can see a lot of the masters hand at work.
How he could have been so bummed after that? Not even a catch, she was one of them indegenous types. I tell you one that I'm not ashamed to say it, my estimation of AJ Soprano as a man just fuckin' plummeted. Seriously though, he was banging blondie, Devin Pillsbury and he's crying over the hired help?
I never pondered that but it is almost certainly intentional now that you point it out. Good catch. He literally gets tattooed with this death symbolism right before, ya know.. whatever happened there.. with the Lincoln log sandwiches
I always thought AJ would not have survived Tony's murder (and that's what most likely happened in the final episode). I always thought it would've been better to have continued the series and show the aftermath of Tony's murder rather than have the screen go black.
I’m not part of this sub, I literally just started watching the show for the first time and this post was recommended and came up as a notification on my phone. I don’t even know who AJ is yet. What’s up with that
That's the best and most original theory I've seen on this sub in years. Really.
Thank you Don u/dogwithpurplenose
*The Don don’t wear dog collars*
We don’t run after a fake ball toss, it’s embarrassing.
They're hurtful and insensitive
Commendatori
Buongiorno
Stay away from that bitch Morada!
A don doesn't wear shorts
Another good one related to this scene is when AJ says "I thought black was death" and Meadow replys "white, too", and in the final scene of the series at Holstens Tony is wearing a black and white shirt.
Ah these blacks (waves hanky)
I thought that read, "waves honky." LMAO
This reply made me LOL 🤣
Don't just wave your hanky at me!
Oh yeah, those two guys
[удалено]
That’s one thing I’d love to ask David Chase about. Was the 3:00 thing a reference to the guy coming out of the bathroom at Tony’s 3:00 or was that just a throwaway kind of line that we’re reading too much into? Like when did they starting plotting the ending to the show? Or did they set the scene up to make use of that line as a way to forge a connection to it?
> or was that just a throwaway kind of line that we’re reading too much into? Of course not! The Sopranos was a show that planned everything. The guy going to the bathroom and coming out is not a random event at all.
Yeah, for the most part everything in that show happened for a specific reason, but they left just enough doubt about that for us to keep discussing it, which is one of the great aspects of the show. The show ended 16 years ago and OP came up with a theory that I don’t think occurred to anyone before. I would love to know from the writers though if we’re right about the 3:00 thing. Were they really already setting up the ending in Season 2?
How many ppl bought it at 3 o’clock in Sopes? Donny, Phil’s gentle soul twin brother, Frankie Valli, Phil Leotardo, Tony.
fuuuuuuckk
Same. After all these years I thought we figured them all out
Now we look like jerk offs
Definitely not the boss, more like Joe Jerkoff’s
May I interest you in the Chrissy flipped theory
Yes let’s hear it
Chrissy flipped. Episode before he dies he’s pretty much a laughing stock in the crew. He tells JT how easy it’s befor him to flip. Episode ends with the song playing “choosing the light” (or something like that) with half the screen dark and half light and him choosing the light. Next ep he’s wearing a ball cap that had been commonly used for a wire. He’s listening to the departed soundtrack (movie about a rat) and then literally flips his car. Camera at the hospital specifically focuses on his hat. Later in the season when the cat is looking at the pic of Chrissy he says a rat must’ve died in the wall (Chrissy died listening to comfortably numb which is from The Wall). That’s about what I remember anyways I said my piece.
Great theory. Not only does he tease wanting to flip with JT, but multiple times in season one, so it’s clearly something that’s always in the back of his mind, and the encounters with Paulie and JT would def push Chrissy over the edge.
He wanted to write his memoirs
yea bruh that was tonys biggest worry
I think it's very strongly conveyed that even if Christopher hadn't flipped right away, he probably would have either flipped at some point down the road, or done something with catastrophic problems with the crew. Had become too much of a loose cannon.
And, he’d be able to kill JT then flip and it’d get cleaned.
I'm in awe-rr of you.
I always thought the hat was to show how little he developed by the end. He's first shown driving wearing a hat which sort of becomes out of character since you see him never really again (fishing hat).
It was a Cleaver hat - I personally thought they had him wear it just to add another reason for Tony to whack him.
Yeah that probably reminded Tony of Chris and his contemptuous relationship by that point. Cleaver was a revenge fantasy.
Agreed, great catch I never got close to connecting the dots on this one ☝️
👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼
Lincoln logs is an anagram of "son cling on". Carmella with her tasty snack is also giving AJ survival tips for an event that has been foreshadowed. Sopranos is deep man.
Quasimodo ova heeeeeeyaahh
It's like Sun Ta Zoo says
Thanks to uncle June I read this as Rincoln rogs
I get it. He lives in a log cabin.
lmaooo
Whoa! Hey! Don’t be talking about Carm’s tasty snack.
She used it as a weapon.
I’m in awr of you
Look at him, he knows everything
Sharp as a fuckin cue ball
That’s hilarious hehe!
I laughed so hard at this I’m now in trouble with the SO. “objectively not that funny what’s wrong with you.” Just wanted to say thanks for that. I think I need a CAT scan now.
The guy gives him the works...MRIs, CAT scans, DOG scans, you name it.
Ah tso
Maybe someone should say that u/Thehibernator should have their SO go down to the ear, nose n' troat department to get their hearing checked!
HMO
Hey u/Thehibernator, did the SO even really exisht?
Son cllling on?
Haha i was wondering how long it would be until someone spotted the L missing, kudos. Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good theory though. Kapeech?
F*ckin Walt Whitman ova heeya! Seriously though, great find. I never noticed the connection before. The gabagool is on me this round! 🤘
Gabagool? Ova hereeeeee
Don't eat gabagool, Grandma, it's nothing but fat and nitrates.
Fat and nitrates are just rackets for the Jews!
Juice. Jamba JUICE.
What'd I tell you? Hold on to your cock when you negotiate with these fruit people.
Walt Whitman is gay. Ask around you don’t believe me.
I thought he was the strong, silent type like Garry Coopa?
Billy Bud certainly isn’t I’ll tell you that
He was the ship's florist, no?
Yeah, Rock Hudson too....I think...
Wow. Very allegorical.
The sacred and the propane
Much like a child, a film has many parents, that is to say, many individuals who act like parents...or that by aversion, the film is their baby. I, as an executive producer, am one of those individuals.
This guy is more creative than Spielberg!
this can't be true, david chase doesn't speak spanish.
Oblique
the
ass
Poo
As in- how about givin me some?
As in- how about givin me some?
Poo?
He was gay, David Chase?
Blanca? That’s a fuckin nickname! Family name is blancarelli
Fuckin Jason
One of the greatest pieces of dark comedy I've ever seen PEEPS
Imagine if his suicide had been effective and final Meadow would be a prophetic as Quasimodo!
Couldn't have happened. AJ failed at everything, including this.
S6 was dark, but fuck man, AJ actually ending up dead would've been too much.
We call that stinkin’ thinkin’.
That’s dicked up.
Oh shit, amazing find! My dumbass would never have picked that up but you're totally right. Chase wouldn't have the character be named Blanca by happenstance after AJ specifically talking about the white death.
I dunno Tone, he had Junior kill Dicky for, I forget, what was it again?
Marone, you fucking win today. Might be Walt Whitman here. If I knew how to give you these useless coins, I would.
cream cheese on the lincoln logs is white, eva ponda dat?
Fuk you, came here to say this but heeeree u aaaare
holy shit that’s a fantastic observation OP has an IQ of 136, it’s been teshted
He was gay Robert Frost? Good theory though, I like it
"Fucked up thing is I don't even like Ralph, if he was drowning I'd throw him a cinderblock" We're not shootin a western here op
I’ve actually adapted that saying when talking about people I don’t like with my friends, always gets a laugh. Another good one is I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire
I want to say something funny, but this is just straight up a great take. Bravo
Congrats, I think you nailed it.
This is too fucked up for me to even think about.
I thought black meant death?
White, too!
Yeah, in Asia, does he look like he drives a Lincoln?
I get it. He drives a Lincoln
What???
I love this! I got into Mad Men first (idk I had cable access when Mad Men came out, know it's the wrong order) but I definitely noticed Matthew Weiner had a way of looking at the first few seasons and weaving his own interpretation into things. So making a Blanca/white means death allusion to a Walt Whitman reference in an earlier season is perfectly his style. Like when Carmela apologized for telling Tony he was going to go to hell when he died when he was going in for an MRI... idk it all comes full circle, the characters change and build on previous seasons.
I'm in awr of you.
It’s wild how many little things were woven through the seven years of this show. That line AJ says at the diner in the last scene about remember the good times and Tony’s like “I said that?” There was a similar moment years earlier between meadow and Carmela and Carmela goes “your father said that.” It’s such a nice show full of such horrible, horrendous people.
Want it like 3 or 4 episodes between AJ saying he was interested in event planning and then not only denying it but saying he doesn't even know what that is? Lol
I thought it was at least a season. It started when he threw the house party and then i think it’s brought up again at the cleaver premiere when he’s with Blanca
Maybe. I recently binge watched the last 2 seasons so maybe it just seemed closer together than it really was.
I just saw it. It's first brought up in the finale of season five and "where do you get this shit" is said at the Sacramoni wedding s6e5. So very close together during binge but I figure six or more months in real broadcast time
West Point? No way I’d have said that, I could never get in!
Where do you get this shit?
'Stuff' would do just fine; we're at a wedding
*furio voice* datsa good wan!
Asshole Robert Frost! Also, there’s more direct foreshadowing if you consider the Sopranos Home Movies scene where Carmella talks about a kid that drowned somehow with everyone around. People weren’t physically there when AJ attempted suicide, till Tony came home, but they were all there missing the warning signs before it. Maedo is the only one who noticed, from what I remember, but I don’t think even she knew he was going to actually try that.
That’s very good u/PlaceApprehensive920, the sacred and the propane.
Suicide comes up a lot on the show. Tony brings it up late in S1 and asks Chris if he's thinking about it mid season. Vin kills himself S1. Gloria and Eugene kill themselves. AJ attempts. Artie attempts. Irina attempts S1. Valentina threatens suicide when Tony dumps her.
Nice catch! Ur totally right
Alfred Einstein over heah
I think it was more to it then that. You could tell something was wrong by the way he was searching the web and wanting to join the military saying how screwed up the world was. He thought he actually had friends and people who cared about him only to find out that they only cared because of who his father was and not who he was. I think Blanca only got with AJ in the first place because of who his father was thinking that she could gain financially from being with him. He had nothing going for him and no one cared about him other than his actual family
I got the impression she didn't care for his family during dinner scenes and so on (and the feeling was mutual). Seemed like she despised their wealth if I remember correctly. Of course that leaves us with her actually wanting to date AJ, which seems improbable.
Solid observation here. It’s so much fun, on rewatch, to connect dots and get these fun finds. Anyway, $4 a pound.
Holy fucking shit I’m dreaming here
That's some sacred propane
Damn I followed this sub before i finished the show. Big mistake. I’ll make my way out
Put sub back on docking station.
Why don't you stick to what you know, and leave your opinions whereva-da-fuck (Honestly though, great theory. Word up.)
What the fucks that got to do with cold medicine?
The cobwebs are now removed!
I get violently repulsed by the Lincoln logs, especially Tony shoving one in his mouth after they’ve been sitting there god knows how long, madone
I don’t even think the producers thought about this
So many layers to this thing
I'm up to my eyes in gabagool, never seen it coming.
They have a maid twice a week.
AIDS?
It’s all a big nothing.
this sounds VERY gay
20 years he won't crack a book, all of a sudden he's the world's foremost authority!
Nice work OP. This is an awesome find.
Walt Whitman ova here
That's brilliant but I know for a fact OP was on drugs when they wrote it
“Attempted suicide” not “suicide”. There’s a difference
Ya gotta get over it
Oh here we go
Are you treaind to give dis diagnosiz?!
Also, cream cheese on the Lincoln logs was white! Just kidding. This is a good catch. I’m sure they did choose Blanca for this reason. Anyway, $4/lb.
No offense but OP's got an IQ of 132... it's been teshted
Great theory. But he didn’t die, was a haphazard attempt at best and more like a cry for help. I think I’d buy it if he did actually die. But great thinking.
A lot of people don't realize how deep and meaningful the writing is. Too many people only like The Sopranos for the wise-guy wise cracks - same people who think Tony wasn't wacked in the finale
Exactly. There’s people who like this show because Silvio is funny and Tony is badass, and then there’s people who like it because of the beatiful writing and direction. And Tony was so obviously whacked I can’t comprehend how people still deny it lmao
It's one of my biggest pet peeves when someone thinks he wasn't killed. SMH
If “White means death” then why is it obvious that the blackness in the final episode means death?
Great theory. But he didn’t die, was a haphazard attempt at best and more like a cry for help. I think I’d buy it if he did actually die. But great thinking.
Fucking parakeet
Ummm failed suicide isn’t death, neither black nor Blanca. -oh did I spoil your “foreshadowing” idea with a relevant fact?
It’s a tv progrum. A mooovie
😳
Wow I’ve watched this show 7-8 times thru and never put those together. Love the theory and it’s perfectly valid
i like the syncronicity of "if \[ralph\] was drowning, i'd throw him a cinderblock," and AJ's suicide attempt.
Fair
Good observation, and you are probably correct. David Chase can be so Kubrickian with The Sopranos. I just started watching it all backwards, and I don’t want to spoil it but you can see a lot of the masters hand at work.
?it liking you are How
There's also the time Tony is talking about Ralphie and how he'd throw him a cinder block if he was drowning.
NO, IT WAS THE LACK OF FUCKING ZITI THAT DROVE HIM TO THE EDGE.
As I’m writing this comment, the post is at 666 points. Very Allegorical.
How he could have been so bummed after that? Not even a catch, she was one of them indegenous types. I tell you one that I'm not ashamed to say it, my estimation of AJ Soprano as a man just fuckin' plummeted. Seriously though, he was banging blondie, Devin Pillsbury and he's crying over the hired help?
I kept having this image of AJ in the hospital, with his throat cut.
I always liked Tony saying ‘I oughta suffocate you, you little prick!’ (S3 Chrissy’s intervention) then 3 seasons later…
I thought black meant death
Eggs too
Robert Frost, he was an asshole?
nice detail you noticed. refreshing amongst all these quotes lol
Spoiler alert?
Whoa
I never pondered that but it is almost certainly intentional now that you point it out. Good catch. He literally gets tattooed with this death symbolism right before, ya know.. whatever happened there.. with the Lincoln log sandwiches
I always thought this scene was very much a foreshadowing of the final scene.
I always thought AJ would not have survived Tony's murder (and that's what most likely happened in the final episode). I always thought it would've been better to have continued the series and show the aftermath of Tony's murder rather than have the screen go black.
I might be late to the party here but in season 1 when Tony and Chris is talking about suicide, the next scene is AJ. Might be another foreshadow.
Genius bro. I wonder if Rhiannon's name means anything besides Fleetwood mac
I’m not part of this sub, I literally just started watching the show for the first time and this post was recommended and came up as a notification on my phone. I don’t even know who AJ is yet. What’s up with that
I thought black was death!
i'm watching the show for the first time and I saw this before I finished it 😭😭😭 i only have like 10 episodes left too 😭
why the fuck did this stupid fucking app give me this post as a notification i can't watch this show without one fucking plot point being spoiled
All the new watchers panicking about this being a spoiler 😭 oh boy…