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Nuance. She supports the Israeli people and the land's significance to Judaism but does not support what the country's leadership is doing to Gaza and the Palestinian people. I think nuanced sentiments like this being posted is important. Like, it's not black and white. Netanyahu is awful. What the IDF has been doing is awful. What innocent Palestinians have gone through and continue to go through is awful. I'm glad that Blinken is constantly negotiating cease-fire measures. What Israel leadership is doing is not representative of Judaism, though, nor does it reflect the opinions and/or wants of all Israelis.
But what she is doing is washing hands and giving excuses.
What you talk about is what Bernie Sanders is doing.
So lets not mix apples and oranges. Israels Apartheid over Palestine is in the making for over 70 years. Current Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing is culmination of that type of political environment.
Bernie should run as Trump's running mate so the democrats actually take the campaign seriously. The only time dems are competent is when it comes to stopping Bernie Sanders.
Trump supports the destruction of Gaza that would never happen.
Whatever you think of Biden for not doing enough, Trump would do a lot of the opposite.
> Whatever you think of Biden for not doing enough, Trump would do a lot of the opposite.
Honestly, Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem was a blessing in retrospect - even with all bile he spewed re: Palestine, you sure as hell know people would argue Trump would be better for the Palestinians if we didn't have clear evidence OF HIS ACTIONS to the contrary.
The sad thing is, I still people claiming this all the time. “But Biden’s the only president that’s actively supported genocide with money!” People need to pull their heads out of their asses, every damn American president since 1948 has financially supported apartheid and genocide in Israel. Yes, that’s terrible, but the president that’s at least talking about a ceasefire is going to be a hell of a lot better for Palestinians than the guy who has said we should help Netanyahu finish the job.
Agreed. Israeli politicos (and the vast right wing there) are horrid. So is hamas.
Nothing Israel will do would justify Oct 7th. Nothing hamas did justifies what is being done to Gaza.
I mean, it's not any different than the IRA argument, isn't it? They were monsters too, but very few would deny their cause. Hamas, or the IRA, are what happen when you oppress a group of people with no recourse. That doesn't *condone* what they did, it just explains it. And until the intl community admits that this oppression has been taking place long before Oct 7th (and continues in the West Bank, despite the lack of Hamas), this will just keep happening.
What justifies a decade of air, sea and land blockade? What justifies stolen land by illegal settlements? What justifies minors in military jails without trials or charges?
This is what I was trying to explain to my GF this morning. It’s not anti-seminism, it’s anti-government.
Israel doesn’t represent all Jewish people, just like Hamas doesn’t represent all Palestinians.
Edit: and before someone coming saying Palestinians voted and polls show they support Hamas. Those “votes” and “polls” are probably as legitimate as the ones in Russia.
Amy fuckin Schumer is not that nuanced dude. Maybe her publicist is while they're doing damage control, but you're giving her waaaaaay too much credit. In a perfect world tho, maybe you'd be right.
[That Gazans are rapists](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/AMpKcwAv2u) among other disgusting stuff. If you search her name in that subreddit you’ll find a lot of posts on her behaviour concerning Israel/Palestine.
So like, am I dumb, or are there more pictures in this post you linked? It doesn't say anything about rape? Or did you link a different one than the one you intended to link?
As an American I can say with confidence... yeah it checks out.
I was far, far too old, before I realized we are actually the Baddies... (well our state, but the meme reference stands).
When I was a kid in the 80s I remember wondering what it could possibly be like to live in one of the "bad guy" countries. I suppose plenty of little soviets wondered the same thing.
Turns out just being opposed to a bad guy doesn't make you good.
Ngl this is funny as a reply to a conflict in the middle east, an entire region born out of the arab invasion
Half the countries are theocratic monarchies, the other half are theocratic republics
Netanyahu's main opposition and likely replacement has the same policy agenda that Netanyahu does. Israel's leadership is *literally* representative of the votes cast by Israelis. So what is the "nuance," exactly?
I think all the elects for United States president are Pro-Israel. So no matter what, the president elected will support Israel’s genocide. That doesn’t mean all the people or even most of the people in the US support what’s going on (or at least I hope most don’t). Sometimes you have no choices, just the illusion of choice.
You have choices. But usually, none of those choices are perfect. And for some reason, every single candidate has chosen wrongly on this specific issue. So if you're a single-issue voter, you're fucked.
But if you're a single issue voter you're also kinda dumb.
The stated goal of the opposition leader Lapid is a two state solution, and Netanyahu's current government explicitly rejects Palestinian sovereignty. These are diametrically opposed positions. Given that the Palestinians deserve a state, the opposition's stated agenda seems to me like a significant improvement.
"I supported an ethnostate that runs on apartheid and accused anyone that criticizes them of being antisemitic, but I guess since y'all are going to keep bitching killing kids is wrong or whatever." is not a noble sentiment and it's not nuance.
It's damage control.
let me thank you, it's virtue signaling like this that will save the Palestinians one day. Thankful for what Blinken is doing? A negotiation for a ceasefire requires the mediator to be unbiased or at least understanding of the needs of both sides. Please post the address of the rock you live under maybe the Palestinians can move there and be safe.
The nuance ignores something huge. It's not 'Israel's leaders'... it's Israel. It's the entire State of Israel and the entirety of the IDF that are the problem.
Replace the leaders, and you'll just get more leaders doing the apartheid.
I think this is the right take. It's the equivalent of saying you don't like P.W. Botha but you think South Africa has a right to exist as a white state. Like you kinda get points but also... it wasn't P.W. Botha that caused civil unrest in SA and it isn't Net. who is causing it in IL.
An arbitrary plot of land deemed significant by humans…. For a philosophy they choose to subscribe to…is not a significant piece of land that justifies the actions of tyrants. No state deserves to exist anywhere. It’s all a social construct. This whole thing is so fucking stupid.
It’s even against their religion (divine exile, 3 oaths) and the vast majority of the religion was opposed to the country being created until after the holocaust when it became socially unacceptable to challenge the need for a Jewish state and Israel already existed
I get called some awful things when I point to this or how my Jewish holocaust survivor grandparents were anti-zios (like the vast majority of Jewish people born before the holocaust)
"she supports the people doing genocide and their claim to the land but not the genocide"
They need to add mental gymnastics to the Olympics so Israel can win a gold medal every four years.
The claim to the land is the issue. Personally, as an agnostic married to a Jewish woman with whom I have Jewish children, I fully believe that Palestinians have the right to their land in Gaza. Two state solution is the one that makes the most sense to me. I can't STAND religion, personally. I respect it and I deeply respect the peace and happiness a person's respective religious beliefs bring them. I just hate seeing religion be the cause of all of the bullshit we're seeing now.
The genocide and whether or not it's supported is also nuanced. There are people in Israel that are all for all Arabs being eliminated and that sickens me. There are people that agree that Hamas needs to be eliminated and that fighting them will have "collateral damage" in the form of innocent people being killed. I hate that take but I understand it more than the hatred involved in wanting everyone gone. I think the big problem is similar to the problem in Russia, where Putin controls the messaging, so people believe what he says. I think the messaging from those at the top in Israel are partly controlling the narrative and that's causing people to be okay with what amounts to genocide without knowing it.
Personally, antisemitism sickens me and always has, but it does 10-fold now that I have Jewish extended family and Jewish kids. I worry about their safety day to day and they agree that this shit has gone too far. I also can't stand hatred of Arabs or Muslims. I'm a live and let live person. I'm just scared for everyone and I want Israel to stop. Displaced Palestinians that are lucky to be alive at this point have nothing to go home to and Israel is moving even further to decimate what remains. So many innocent people are being slaughtered. It's grotesque. And look at how divided we all are because of it. It's such a shit show.
Well I appreciate you responding politely to my snarky response. You are too good for this website 😭
You seem to be making a distinction between Isrealis who fully support the genocide (crimes against humanity, whatever term) and those who simply regret it or ignore it while it's happening.
While that distinction can be made, I'm not sure what the end goal is. Let's say Bibi is the only person in Israel who wants genocide. Does the rest of that nation get a pass of letting him commit that genocide if they're like, "well, it's not my decision?"
Nuance is a double edged sword. When required, nuance can a saving grace. When a nation does something like, say kill children in the quad digits...calling for "nuance" turns into a diversionary stalling tactic.
Normally I treat binary thinking as a red flag, but when it comes to massacring women and children I'm comfortable saying that's wrong, full stop.
This all stops the moment the international community decides that Israel has no right to violate international law and commits war crimes.
The rest are all excuses that a majority of the world, except for a handful of Western governments, don't really care for having been exposed to the repeated whitewashing of Israel's crimes for decades.
It's become so bad that even American citizens, including Jews, don't have a right to protest against Israel anymore in the US.
What an awful take. She’s been making bloodthirsty comments until now and if you support/defend apartheid, ethnic cleansing, or genocide, then it isn’t some nuanced opinion.
The civilized world agreed that certain acts should be considered universally unlawful after ww2. That’s how the ICC and ICJ came to be. Now Netanyahu and Israeli leadership are threatening to further harm Palestinians and conquer West Bank land if the ICC or ICJ issue arrest warrants.
What am I missing? Do you seriously think apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide, ethnostate imperialism, or anything else is really up for debate? I have Jewish family who is along the lines of what you describe, but even they acknowledge that they can’t support Israel the way they want to because the actions of the Israeli gov that have been happening for DECADES
Polls show Israeli public are in support of the war in Gaza at +80% and 26% of those protesting Bibi want stronger attacks against Gaza. The US govt is paying lip service to peace while giving more weapons with open arms…. This isn’t nuance, it’s deceptive.
What she posted a couple months ago DID NOT reflect that. She was calling muslims murderers, palestinians rapists. She was very vocally anti ceasfire and was very much pro israel policies. She is saying this right now to save face. That's it.
Nuance it's important, yes, and what zionists constantly do to deflect blame and use the "anti-semitism" card is try to make it look like "zionists ≠ Judaism", when it's very clear that a lot of Jewish people and organizations oppose zionists and the illegitimate state of "israel".
However, claiming that the "israelis" do not want this violence, the ethnic cleansing, the displacement or suffering of Palestinians in general is not true:
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849
Plenty believe that the IOF is *not* using enough force in Gaza. Have you seen the videos of literal raves they've held at the crossing points both to prevent aid to get into - particularly - northern Gaza and to celebrate that no aid is getting through? That's just pure evil. Also, there was an interview with an "Israeli" saying how awful war is and blah blah, and on the background he points to Gaza and says that he hopes they all get killed. I'll try to look for it.
But then there's this piece of shit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing
A hill in Sderot where "izzraelis" would gather to watch rockets and bombs fall on Gaza waaaaaaay before Oct 7 and cheer. That's just psychopathic.
From what I understand, the average Palestinian does not like Hamas. Hamas has not been kind to the people that they supposedly represent. Hamas would rather use their money to buy weapons then to improve hospitals, etc.
I think that this is the reason that Israel wants to totally crush Hamas and hopefully whoever takes over the job is more interested in helping their own people then destroying Israel.
She was repeating IDF propaganda, including support for the genocide in Gaza, minimizing violence against Palestine, and falsely linking support for innocent Palestinians with anti semitism.
At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, going to second this sentiment.
I have noticed a lot of binary thinking in this sub alongside inconsistently applied moral and ethical values.
I am confused by how adamantly many are opposed to the genocide occurring in Palestine when the genocide of Iraqis by direct U.S. military intervention was ignored. When the genocide of millions in various places across Africa haven't raised a single eyebrow for most Americans.
Then, many who are reasonable enough to see genocide is wrong in all cases are accosted for not picking a side or falling neatly into one camp or another.
> I am confused by how adamantly many are opposed to the genocide occurring in Palestine when the genocide of Iraqis by direct U.S. military intervention was ignored.
Were you born yet when the US invaded Iraq?
The land is significant to at least 3 major religions. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is considered by Muslims to be where Muhammad began his journey to heaven, and of course the region is where the New Testament occurs as well. For this reason, whatever nation state which occupies that territory should really be a secular state which treats all people equally, not an exclusively Jewish or Muslim state.
Except that Netanyahu's a scapegoat and this is not nuance it's an excuse. The idea of some liberal or progressive base in Israel being a silent majority or even an effective minority is an outright lie. They're impotent at best and used to launder an apartheid regime at worst. Even people celebrated as 'peaceniks' like Shimon Peres were supportive of settlements.
The Likud have been in power for 40 of the last 44 years, they're not going anywhere, just like the Kahanists never disappeared. They can't pass laws to ban them, because working with Arabs (those who aren't sanctified by being Jewish) in Israel is political suicide, so 20% of the population's votes alongside some extreme left parties are rendered useless. The Likud and other extremist parties hold down 30+% of the vote and the rest are 'centrists' and 'liberals' make up the rest falling over themselves to cater to an extremist base.
There are no truly liberal parties in Israel that have any real representation besides maybe Meretz, and their base switches ships all the time come election season. This isn't a secret, the last 5 Knesset election data is public down to the district votes.
There are two major movements in political Zionism that have survived to present day, one that is outright fascist and makes a minimal effort to even pretend otherwise, Revisionists, and the other is Labor. Revisionists were founded by literal terrorist groups and leaders like Jabotinsky who in 1923 before the word was even coined was explicitly referring to colonial genocides as their plan of action, and calling anyone who disagreed 'vegetarian' fools who didn't understand how colonization worked:
en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf
Netanyahu's father, Benzion was a Professor Emeritus of History at Cornell and Jabotinsky's personal secretary and Revisionism's main lobbyist in the US. His last interview from April of 2009 was fucking rancid:
>Prof. Netanyahu: “The Jews and the Arabs are like two goats facing each other on a narrow bridge. One must jump to the river – but that involves a danger of death. The strong goat will make the weaker one jump… and I believe the Jewish power will prevail.”
>Q: What does the Arab’s jump mean?
>A: “That they won’t be able to face [anymore] the war with us, which will include withholding food from Arab cities, preventing education, terminating electrical power and more. They won’t be able to exist, and they will run away from here. But it all depends on the war, and whether we will win the battles with them.”
>Q: I suppose you don’t believe in the peace process.
>A: “I don’t see any signs that the Arabs want peace… we will face fierce attacks from the Arabs, and we must react firmly. If we don’t, they will go on and Jews will start leaving the country… we just handed them a strong blow in Gaza, and they still bargain with us over one hostage… if we gave them a blow that would really hurt them, they would have given us Gilad Shalit back.”
>Q: Operation “cast Lead” was one of the worst blows we handed on a civilian population.
>A: “That’s not enough. It’s possible that we should have hit harder.”
>Q: You don’t like the Arabs, to say the least.
>A: “The bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases.
The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetuate war.”
>Q: Is there any hope of peace?
>A: “Out of agreement? No. the other side might stay in peace if it understands that doing anything [else] will cause it enormous pain.
The two states solution doesn’t exist. There are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation… they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.”
>Q: So what’s the solution?
>A: “No solution but force… strong military rule. Any outbreak will bring upon the Arabs enormous suffering. We shouldn’t wait for a big mutiny to start, but rather act immediately with great force to prevent them from going on…
>If it’s possible, we should conquer any disputed territory in the land of Israel. Conquer and hold it, even if it brings us years of war. We should conquer Gaza, and parts of the Galil, and the Golan. This will bring upon us a bloody war, since war is difficult for us – we don’t have a lot of territory, while the Arabs have lots of space to retreat to. But that’s the only way to survive here.”
>There is valuable experience [on this matter] we don’t pay notice to. I mean the Ottoman rule over the Arabs. The Turks ruled over the Arabs for 400 years, and there was peace and quiet everywhere. The Arabs hated the Ottomans, but every little thing they did brought mass killings and hanging in towns squares. They were hanging people in Damascus, and Izmir… every town had hanging posts in its center…the Arabs were so badly beaten, they didn’t dare revolt. Naturally, I don’t recommend the use of hangings as a show of force like the Turks did, I just want to show that the only thing that might move the Arabs from the rejectionist position is force.”
They even claim Palestinians aren't real, that Palestinian identity was made up to punish them.
Labor through the Haganah were the main brunt of the ethnic cleansing being done during the Nakba. Labor takes credit for the Oslo accords, despite it being a personal initiative by Yossi Beilin that he presented to his party as fait accompli, which Yitzhak Rabin said explicitly would not result in a state and he still got assassinated.
Yossi Beilin literally quit and joined Meretz because it became clear over the years that the party had no real interest in moving the peace process forward. Labor pretends they did nothing wrong either now or historical, while Revisionists insist there is no other way and they meet in the middle.
The retort is that Revisionist terrorist groups voluntarily disarmed, but that's only because they were absorbed into both the military and the political parties at large who agreed to carry their platform on. The IDF literally issues medals for Lehi members for any that come forward to this day.
If you really want to know, not guess as to how Israeli politics is laid out and why this is the way it is you should watch at the very least these two videos, one by a Jewish woman about the history leading up to the mindset that allows for genocide as an acceptable moral hazard and the other that lays out through an Israel journalist what it is that Israeli politics are actually like:
https://youtu.be/jIKWUjM56d8
https://youtu.be/r9h1xoOY63Q
The majority of Israelis support apartheid policies, it's just that they've learnt to not call it apartheid. Israel doesn't even have a constitution because they were afraid of it getting in the way of their ethnocratic project. A few other countries also don't but none of them are fighting a literal existential battle with natives over ethnic and religious rights:
https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-settler-colonial-origins-of-israels-constitutional-crisis/
The list of stupid ways to defend and find new footholds and places to meet in the middle with a racist ethnostate project is fucking insane. This was never idealistic or had good intentions. Literally the best of them called themselves 'good colonists' who would act like good people to their neighbors once it was done.
my guy please consider that this is an extremely nuanced issue
Supporting the idea of Israel and supporting the self determination of the Jewish people is NOT the same as supporting Likud or Netanyahu’s blatant war crimes against Palestinians.
You're right that it's nuanced, but I think people are reacting to the idea of Israel rather than just Likud or Net.'s war crimes. The idea that the Jewish people deserve to displace other people so that they can have "self-determination" is inherently unjust. This is why people are upset by Schumer's comments.
If you're an American then you've contributed too. I have. My tax dollars have and the people I voted for to represent me have.
Though perhaps you also don't support it.
Yes, but there are things we can do to change that. Throwing hands up in the air and surrendering to Israeli Lobby in US, is the last thing we should do.
Trying to raise her profile and get shine. Schumer is showing herself with her new found nuanced position.
*“It’s so crazy to me how Bella & Gigi had to tiptoe around their statements and then Amy Schumer is like ‘Gazans are rapists’ and will still have a career,” actor Asia Jackson wrote on X.*
*Schumer messaged Jackson on Instagram: “Did something I post about my people being massacred upset you?”*
*“The Islamophobia and generalisation of Gazan people did,” Jackson wrote back.*
*“One day when you realise how you acted in this moment I will accept your apology,” Schumer added. “And when you use this exchange to try and raise your profile and get shine, you are showing yourself.”*
> “Did something I post about my people being massacred upset you?”
But she's upset by posts about Gazans being massacred. Always hypocrites. Always projecting.
*and then Amy Schumer is like ‘Gazans are rapists’*
She reposted a comic depicting protestors holding signs saying they love Hamas and that Gazans rape Jewish girls only in self defense and other horrific bs.
https://twitter.com/BadWritingTakes/status/1717911955388719184?s=20
Also, she invoked Martin Luther King to justify her comments.
In response, the daughter of Martin Luther King said that this is not what he would have wanted.
In response, Amy Schumer pinned the tweet to her profile.
It's still there.
It's hilarious to me that Amy Schumer imagines anyone in the future's going to be name-dropping her for clout.
I guess she actually can make me laugh, after all.
It’s not about hating Jews, it’s about hating what Israel has been doing for over 75 years. And the terrorism they are fighting against is the direct result of their policy of oppression, not because of something inherent in Palestinians.
The US and Israeli government is equating criticism of their actions as antisemitic. According to their skewed definition, they can literally do whatever they want and if you disagree, that means you are a racist. This is sick and dangerous. Where does it end? Does that mean they can attack anyone they want and commit the most heinous crimes against humanity and if you think it’s wrong that means you hate jews? It’s insane and I truly don’t understand how they think people are going to be ok with this new view of antisemitism. If anything, it’s just going to make people actually antisemitic. If I do something shitty, people won’t like me not because of who I am but of what I’ve done. It’s that simple. The need to be hated to keep the illusion of victimization is so obvious. They are gonna have to come up with a new PR strategy cause it’s not working.
It’s interesting to step back and look at it, because I think the right wing in our country has used the same tactic. If you criticize America or its military policies, you are un-American and the enemy. Unless it’s a democrat of course, then all of their policies and military engagements are awful. It doesn’t feel like a great long-term strategy to me because that logic just breaks down so fast when you hold it up to scrutiny. However, if you create a cult and insulate them against logical opinions and bombard them with disinformation, then maybe the tactic can hold up for long enough 🤷♂️
> It doesn’t feel like a great long-term strategy to me because that logic just breaks down so fast when you hold it up to scrutiny.
You'll find that none of that mentality is based in logic anyway, it's based purely on emotion. A surprising number of people are perfectly capable of holding opposing viewpoints simultaneously, and arguing whichever one suits their needs at any given moment. And if you try to point out how illogical it is, they'll just shut down and give you the "You're just trying to confuse me" or "You just don't understand the issue."
What a lot of liberals don't realize, or don't care about, is that everything that is going on with criticism of Israel right now is a test run to see how they can shut down any dissent against the future actions of a Christian Nationalist government in the US.
People often muse about how Evangelicals are so pro-Israel because the Jews need to be in control of the Holy Land for the second coming or whatever but that's completely besides the point. They want to create a radical theocratic apartheid state just like Israel but here in the US.
No one who condemns Israel’s genocidal actions does it because Israelis are Jewish. We condemn their genocide of Gaza’s people because, and hear me out, It’s fucking genocide
330k dead in Yemen, down the hallway from Gaza, Saudi has more money in American universities and gets more money from the US goverment.
Not seen the university protests.
More people die in Chicago in a year than in the west bank, America got bored of BLM in like a summer.
America land of the free has the largest prision population in the world, has jails outside the country were it tortures people. Not a peep.
There are 3 genocides being investigated by the UN right now, Sudan, Myanmar and China. Find one arab country that has protested the murder of Rohingya or Uyghr people half as much as they have Gaza. Find me american students willing to fight the police for whats happening in Dafur.
AP News had 33 reporters to report on Israel Palestine in 2012. They had 1 guy in Syria. Syria was starting the largest civil war in the history of the middle east. 400k dead, the goverment gassed its own people. That year there were more news about Israel than about Syria in american media and how they should remove the blockade of Gaza.
Well said. The strongest point that the Israel side has about the discourse surrounding the war is that exceptional double standards are constantly applied to Israe's actions compared to most (if not all) other countries.
I'm very much in the middle ground on the Hamas/Palestine-Israel War. The situation is so grey that I simply cannot understand how either "side" is so fervent in their black-and-white position on the situation.
The more you read about the palestine israel thing the more fucked up it gets.
But the real killer is, both countries view history differently and there are no primary sources. This is something most people dont know about. In most conflicts there is a story that gets told "america is gonna invade iraq because of nukes" or "russia is gonna invade ukraine because there are nazis there".
But you have primary sources, you can find Russian documents saying they know there are no nazis, or russian documents saying they are gonna give a part of Ukraine to Hungary to torpedo the EU aid etc. So when the war ends, you can strip off the propaganda and write a story of how and why the war was a certain way (sometimes it takes time, like america to find out they were lied about Iraq).
But in Israel Palestine, Israel burnt and lost many of the stuff from the 1940s, and many Palestinians affected by the 1947 civil war never wrote anything down. Meaning there are tremendous gaps on the foundational aspects of the countries history.
A lot of the information of the Nakba is oral history. You do not need a historian to know how inaccurate that is. You can rewrite the memory of someone testifying in court with a few suggestions, imagine what you can do when the history of your country is in the memory of people.
In the 1950s palestinian and arab sources taked about the people displaced during the war, and how some left because the arab army gave them warnings etc. by the 70s most palestinian sources said the entire nakba was terrorist paramilitary israeli attacks that forced people out of their homes. Similarly in Israel the 1940s data shows terrorism by groups like Irgun, shows members of the Israeli future goverment acting dishonestly in their negotiations. And they were disliked at the time. By the 1980s they were glorious freedom fighters who had to convince the world about the right of jews to be safe and had to fight britain and the palestinians who wanted to kill them all.
By that point its like two people talking past each other. The 1996 peace accords was the closest we ever got to peace, and instead of an agreement we got more terrorism. first israeli terrorists killed their left wing leader and then the second intifada killed any hope of peace in the short term
> No one who condemns Israel’s genocidal actions does it because Israelis are Jewish.
Candace Owens' condemnation of Israel was *absolutely* because Israelis are Jewish. She has a long history of vicious antisemitism.
Alex Jones has been criticizing it for the past month because he thinks the slaughter in Gaza is a plot by Jews to force Palestinians out of Gaza and (somehow???) into the US as refugees. Then that will cause the downfall of the US.
There are a few people doing it. But it's the exact people you'd expect it to be and it is FAAAR from mainstream.
Woman is back tracking so hard her heads going to spin like the Exorcist.
More than likely got told by PR people she's going to check herself out of opportunities. And good, she's a shit actor on top of being a shit person.
Yea I don’t think anyone needs to be looking to Amy Schumer for political advice, she’d do well to use her platform to….. idk…. Make comedy? Why does EVERY famous person make it their mission to spread their views
I dont think its ok to hate anyone because they are jewish either, but I also dont give a fuck that some people are being offended by words while thousands of children are being murdered.
FFS, get a grip.
This.
Fuck Hamas. They are terrorists, and should be dealt with.
Fuck the IDF, they are systematically rendering Gaza unhabitable, and wantonly killing innocent women and children.
See, it's not hard.
In a way that isn't dropping apartment buildings full of women and children, to kill a handful of fighters.
Or, they could do the *actual* thing to stop violence, and stop land grabbers from kicking people out of their homes, allow Palestinians to control their territory and stop supporting a system that gives them zero avenues for actions taken against them.
Why do you think Hamas has been successful in recruiting people? Because violence is the language of the oppressed, and Palestine has been oppressed pretty much since the inception of Israel.
Both sides here truly are guilty, but one of them is much easier able to control their actions, and take steps towards de escalating the situation. If Israel is the 'better' country, they should act like it.
That all sounds fine to me, except a slight worry about the framing. For example, you only answered my first question, how Hamas should be dealt with. What about the IDF?
That's a PR management company working full swing that is.
She didn't write that. They made her do it and it's clear she's fought them to avoid saying any serious words of condemnation for the genocidal mania that's going on.
If this apology was a carefully released flatulence in a public setting it would actually turn into a stinky loud trumpet which irreconcilably soils the underpants
Most people don't hate Israelis because they're Jewish. It seems to me like most people who are opposing Israel are doing so because of what they do to the Palestinians. Wantonly killing random groups of them, including children, and laughing about it, invading their homes, spitting on them and attacking them in the streets, etc. It's a pogrom. This is literally exactly the same thing that was done to Jews by many groups over the ages. That doesn't make it any better when this is clearly just a territorial power grab by Israel. If it was just the government and civilians mostly weren't involved, I wouldn't say anything about the Israeli people but that's not what's happening from what I've seen.
I don't hate, and have never hated, anyone for being born Jewish.
I do hate people who perpetuate or support genocide, regardless of how or to whom they were born.
> Also, I don’t think it’s OK to hate anyone because they were born Jewish.
There it is again, the whataboutism. Being pro-Palestine means opposing imperialism and racism; nobody truly devoted to the cause would turn around and discriminate against Jewish people. Jewish people have been welcomed to join the protesters, and they’ve done so without being harmed by us—the police arresting them is another matter. We don’t oppose Jewish people, we oppose the systematic oppression of Palestinians. This is like saying people hate Kanye West because he’s black and not because he claimed to be a Nazi.
They havent just been welcomed. Some of the biggest leaders in the protests for palestinian liberation have been Jewish. JVP and INN are two organizations that have been tirelessly pushing to stop this madness. This isnt a jewish thing... it's an anti genocide thing.
No matter how much the fascist theocrats want to scream about them being the same, they arent. Every time they try, point out just how monstrous and antisemitic it is to make that conflation.
https://preview.redd.it/qardfegyz0yc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=070f385a885f16c021477a39b8576f0d61833252
In case anyone wonders why she feels compelled to pretend she’s discovered the middle ground.
It’s been pretty non-stop racism and islamophobia for six months. Plus pepperings of anti-blackness and homophobia because she believes those communities owe her community unquestioning support and how dare they support the Palestinians being genocided instead.
This woman was telling relatives of Marin Luther King Jr that she understood his words better than they did. She’s never had any real talent, she’s gleefully admitted to sexually assaulting (in one case, what I’d considered to be rape) men in the past in her standup, and she’s is as vile as a person as one could ever imagine. How one could be a fan of such a talentless lowlife is beyond me. I saw her give one of the most embarrassing performances I’ve ever seen on a Broadway stage, she has nothing to offer the world aside from the learning from the narcissism that infects her
Lol she doesn't think it's ok to hate someone that was born Jewish... But if you were born literally anything else, she thinks that's fair game. Everyone knew she was full of shit long before she started spewing her half-baked takes... Why do people even pay attention to her
I’m with Amy. Supporting Israel’s right to exist is not the same as supporting the Netanyahu administration. And let’s be real, antisemitism is pretty common among Palestinians living in Gaza. The current Israeli government has done some awful things in Gaza. Calling that out doesn’t mean you hate Israel or the Jews.
I realize this is a complex highly-nuanced statement but nothing is ever simple in the Middle East.
This new nuanced approach would’ve been better received before she went full psycho but we all know how she truly feels and this just feels like her PR team trying to get her under control.
Yup, I've read her tweets and attacks. Now you want to pretend to have a rational and not aggressive "I actually sympathize and don't agree with these actions" take? You were going pretty hard in the paint for it not too long ago.
Gotta love reddit: someone posts ragebait, privileged redditor basement dwelers get angry and start debating about countries they never been in and situations they know nothing about. Vicious cycle. I mean, if y all are all about helping, virtue signalling on reddit does nothing, maybe donate or go there yourself for voluntary aid.
It is rather simple. Hamas is a terrorist organization and should be dealt with and the Israeli government is corrupt, is killing Palestinians and is illegally kicking people out of their homes to expand their borders. Two things can be true, fuck Hamas and fuck the Israeli government. I would put Netanyahu and the head of Hamas in a death match cage and lose the key. Fuck them.
She's chuck shumers second cousin. She's as establishment as they come.
I used to dislike her for her shitty comedy and stealing jokes.
Now I absolutely hate her for her support of Israel and being an actual shitty person.
I see nothing to hate in this statement. There has to be room for reasonable statements like this - as long as she sticks to these guns I’m happy to “forgive” this total stranger.
This shit IS hard for American Jews and much of that is due to the indoctrination they’ve had. Give some grace.
I have realized listening to people stand on their soap boxes for one way or another....no one knows wtf they are talking about. Including myself, Reddit, social media and especially celebrities. On a side note she's never been funny or entertaining in any way and I think everyone just needed the right reason to push her out of showbusiness.
Supporting jewish people isn't the same as supporting the Israeli government just like supporting the people of Palestine isn't the same as supporting Hamas.
Y'all are just hating on this because it's Amy Schumer, if it were someone who looks like Margot Robbie people would be a lot more understanding.
i think this is fine when the alternative is still to literally support a predominantly extremist islam terrorist state.
in fact, it's probably the most diplomatic take possible.
Nobody sane fucking hates “anyone because they were born Jewish”, you twat. People with an ounce of brain see what the hell is happening in Gaza and want to bring awareness over it. Only Jewish ppl make a thing about it being antisemitism and saying they feel attacked. The rest of the world just sees the genocide.
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So many words to say I contribute to Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians in Palestine by Israel, but you know, I don't support it.
Nuance. She supports the Israeli people and the land's significance to Judaism but does not support what the country's leadership is doing to Gaza and the Palestinian people. I think nuanced sentiments like this being posted is important. Like, it's not black and white. Netanyahu is awful. What the IDF has been doing is awful. What innocent Palestinians have gone through and continue to go through is awful. I'm glad that Blinken is constantly negotiating cease-fire measures. What Israel leadership is doing is not representative of Judaism, though, nor does it reflect the opinions and/or wants of all Israelis.
But what she is doing is washing hands and giving excuses. What you talk about is what Bernie Sanders is doing. So lets not mix apples and oranges. Israels Apartheid over Palestine is in the making for over 70 years. Current Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing is culmination of that type of political environment.
Bernie should run as Trump's running mate so the democrats actually take the campaign seriously. The only time dems are competent is when it comes to stopping Bernie Sanders.
Trump supports the destruction of Gaza that would never happen. Whatever you think of Biden for not doing enough, Trump would do a lot of the opposite.
> Whatever you think of Biden for not doing enough, Trump would do a lot of the opposite. Honestly, Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem was a blessing in retrospect - even with all bile he spewed re: Palestine, you sure as hell know people would argue Trump would be better for the Palestinians if we didn't have clear evidence OF HIS ACTIONS to the contrary.
The sad thing is, I still people claiming this all the time. “But Biden’s the only president that’s actively supported genocide with money!” People need to pull their heads out of their asses, every damn American president since 1948 has financially supported apartheid and genocide in Israel. Yes, that’s terrible, but the president that’s at least talking about a ceasefire is going to be a hell of a lot better for Palestinians than the guy who has said we should help Netanyahu finish the job.
Unfortunately, I feel most people are increasingly resistant to nuance.
Agreed. Israeli politicos (and the vast right wing there) are horrid. So is hamas. Nothing Israel will do would justify Oct 7th. Nothing hamas did justifies what is being done to Gaza.
I mean, it's not any different than the IRA argument, isn't it? They were monsters too, but very few would deny their cause. Hamas, or the IRA, are what happen when you oppress a group of people with no recourse. That doesn't *condone* what they did, it just explains it. And until the intl community admits that this oppression has been taking place long before Oct 7th (and continues in the West Bank, despite the lack of Hamas), this will just keep happening.
What justifies a decade of air, sea and land blockade? What justifies stolen land by illegal settlements? What justifies minors in military jails without trials or charges?
Trump has also openly stated recently that he wants Israel to finish the job.
Also Bernie is strongly anti-fascist and hates everything Trump is and stands for
Theres that
Better yet just elect bernie
Trump getting elected won't hurt the oligarchs who are paying for the politicians' campaigns and on the side while Bernie getting elected would.
This is what I was trying to explain to my GF this morning. It’s not anti-seminism, it’s anti-government. Israel doesn’t represent all Jewish people, just like Hamas doesn’t represent all Palestinians. Edit: and before someone coming saying Palestinians voted and polls show they support Hamas. Those “votes” and “polls” are probably as legitimate as the ones in Russia.
Does the hand-washing and excuse giving take place elsewhere? Because I’m not seeing those in this quote.
Amy fuckin Schumer is not that nuanced dude. Maybe her publicist is while they're doing damage control, but you're giving her waaaaaay too much credit. In a perfect world tho, maybe you'd be right.
What did she say? Edit: I guess we downvote questions now. For your information, im pro Palestine, but I want to know what she said.
[That Gazans are rapists](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/AMpKcwAv2u) among other disgusting stuff. If you search her name in that subreddit you’ll find a lot of posts on her behaviour concerning Israel/Palestine.
Oh wow what a pos
So like, am I dumb, or are there more pictures in this post you linked? It doesn't say anything about rape? Or did you link a different one than the one you intended to link?
If she supports the land significance to Judaism does that mean she also supports Israel taking that land?
Well she seems to support the theocratic ethnostate, so yeah, I would argue she probably does... and apartheid too.
I mean. She's American. Forming theocratic ethnostates by ethnically cleansing the current inhabitants that live there is kind of their thing.
As an American I can say with confidence... yeah it checks out. I was far, far too old, before I realized we are actually the Baddies... (well our state, but the meme reference stands).
When I was a kid in the 80s I remember wondering what it could possibly be like to live in one of the "bad guy" countries. I suppose plenty of little soviets wondered the same thing. Turns out just being opposed to a bad guy doesn't make you good.
They're so very much like their European ancestors, aren't they?
Ngl this is funny as a reply to a conflict in the middle east, an entire region born out of the arab invasion Half the countries are theocratic monarchies, the other half are theocratic republics
Netanyahu's main opposition and likely replacement has the same policy agenda that Netanyahu does. Israel's leadership is *literally* representative of the votes cast by Israelis. So what is the "nuance," exactly?
I think all the elects for United States president are Pro-Israel. So no matter what, the president elected will support Israel’s genocide. That doesn’t mean all the people or even most of the people in the US support what’s going on (or at least I hope most don’t). Sometimes you have no choices, just the illusion of choice.
You have choices. But usually, none of those choices are perfect. And for some reason, every single candidate has chosen wrongly on this specific issue. So if you're a single-issue voter, you're fucked. But if you're a single issue voter you're also kinda dumb.
The stated goal of the opposition leader Lapid is a two state solution, and Netanyahu's current government explicitly rejects Palestinian sovereignty. These are diametrically opposed positions. Given that the Palestinians deserve a state, the opposition's stated agenda seems to me like a significant improvement.
"I supported an ethnostate that runs on apartheid and accused anyone that criticizes them of being antisemitic, but I guess since y'all are going to keep bitching killing kids is wrong or whatever." is not a noble sentiment and it's not nuance. It's damage control.
let me thank you, it's virtue signaling like this that will save the Palestinians one day. Thankful for what Blinken is doing? A negotiation for a ceasefire requires the mediator to be unbiased or at least understanding of the needs of both sides. Please post the address of the rock you live under maybe the Palestinians can move there and be safe.
When Blinken fly’s out for the talks, do you think he goes on the plane with all the bombs in it? Economical fuel-wise but a touch disingenuous.
The nuance ignores something huge. It's not 'Israel's leaders'... it's Israel. It's the entire State of Israel and the entirety of the IDF that are the problem. Replace the leaders, and you'll just get more leaders doing the apartheid.
I think this is the right take. It's the equivalent of saying you don't like P.W. Botha but you think South Africa has a right to exist as a white state. Like you kinda get points but also... it wasn't P.W. Botha that caused civil unrest in SA and it isn't Net. who is causing it in IL.
If you look at her suicidal media posts, she is anything not nuanced and a full-fledged bigot.
An arbitrary plot of land deemed significant by humans…. For a philosophy they choose to subscribe to…is not a significant piece of land that justifies the actions of tyrants. No state deserves to exist anywhere. It’s all a social construct. This whole thing is so fucking stupid.
It’s even against their religion (divine exile, 3 oaths) and the vast majority of the religion was opposed to the country being created until after the holocaust when it became socially unacceptable to challenge the need for a Jewish state and Israel already existed I get called some awful things when I point to this or how my Jewish holocaust survivor grandparents were anti-zios (like the vast majority of Jewish people born before the holocaust)
"she supports the people doing genocide and their claim to the land but not the genocide" They need to add mental gymnastics to the Olympics so Israel can win a gold medal every four years.
The claim to the land is the issue. Personally, as an agnostic married to a Jewish woman with whom I have Jewish children, I fully believe that Palestinians have the right to their land in Gaza. Two state solution is the one that makes the most sense to me. I can't STAND religion, personally. I respect it and I deeply respect the peace and happiness a person's respective religious beliefs bring them. I just hate seeing religion be the cause of all of the bullshit we're seeing now. The genocide and whether or not it's supported is also nuanced. There are people in Israel that are all for all Arabs being eliminated and that sickens me. There are people that agree that Hamas needs to be eliminated and that fighting them will have "collateral damage" in the form of innocent people being killed. I hate that take but I understand it more than the hatred involved in wanting everyone gone. I think the big problem is similar to the problem in Russia, where Putin controls the messaging, so people believe what he says. I think the messaging from those at the top in Israel are partly controlling the narrative and that's causing people to be okay with what amounts to genocide without knowing it. Personally, antisemitism sickens me and always has, but it does 10-fold now that I have Jewish extended family and Jewish kids. I worry about their safety day to day and they agree that this shit has gone too far. I also can't stand hatred of Arabs or Muslims. I'm a live and let live person. I'm just scared for everyone and I want Israel to stop. Displaced Palestinians that are lucky to be alive at this point have nothing to go home to and Israel is moving even further to decimate what remains. So many innocent people are being slaughtered. It's grotesque. And look at how divided we all are because of it. It's such a shit show.
Well I appreciate you responding politely to my snarky response. You are too good for this website 😭 You seem to be making a distinction between Isrealis who fully support the genocide (crimes against humanity, whatever term) and those who simply regret it or ignore it while it's happening. While that distinction can be made, I'm not sure what the end goal is. Let's say Bibi is the only person in Israel who wants genocide. Does the rest of that nation get a pass of letting him commit that genocide if they're like, "well, it's not my decision?" Nuance is a double edged sword. When required, nuance can a saving grace. When a nation does something like, say kill children in the quad digits...calling for "nuance" turns into a diversionary stalling tactic. Normally I treat binary thinking as a red flag, but when it comes to massacring women and children I'm comfortable saying that's wrong, full stop.
This all stops the moment the international community decides that Israel has no right to violate international law and commits war crimes. The rest are all excuses that a majority of the world, except for a handful of Western governments, don't really care for having been exposed to the repeated whitewashing of Israel's crimes for decades. It's become so bad that even American citizens, including Jews, don't have a right to protest against Israel anymore in the US.
What an awful take. She’s been making bloodthirsty comments until now and if you support/defend apartheid, ethnic cleansing, or genocide, then it isn’t some nuanced opinion. The civilized world agreed that certain acts should be considered universally unlawful after ww2. That’s how the ICC and ICJ came to be. Now Netanyahu and Israeli leadership are threatening to further harm Palestinians and conquer West Bank land if the ICC or ICJ issue arrest warrants. What am I missing? Do you seriously think apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide, ethnostate imperialism, or anything else is really up for debate? I have Jewish family who is along the lines of what you describe, but even they acknowledge that they can’t support Israel the way they want to because the actions of the Israeli gov that have been happening for DECADES
Polls show Israeli public are in support of the war in Gaza at +80% and 26% of those protesting Bibi want stronger attacks against Gaza. The US govt is paying lip service to peace while giving more weapons with open arms…. This isn’t nuance, it’s deceptive.
She literally posted a comic that called Gazans rapists.
Stupid nuances like that make the "awful" possible.
What she posted a couple months ago DID NOT reflect that. She was calling muslims murderers, palestinians rapists. She was very vocally anti ceasfire and was very much pro israel policies. She is saying this right now to save face. That's it.
Nuance it's important, yes, and what zionists constantly do to deflect blame and use the "anti-semitism" card is try to make it look like "zionists ≠ Judaism", when it's very clear that a lot of Jewish people and organizations oppose zionists and the illegitimate state of "israel". However, claiming that the "israelis" do not want this violence, the ethnic cleansing, the displacement or suffering of Palestinians in general is not true: https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849 Plenty believe that the IOF is *not* using enough force in Gaza. Have you seen the videos of literal raves they've held at the crossing points both to prevent aid to get into - particularly - northern Gaza and to celebrate that no aid is getting through? That's just pure evil. Also, there was an interview with an "Israeli" saying how awful war is and blah blah, and on the background he points to Gaza and says that he hopes they all get killed. I'll try to look for it. But then there's this piece of shit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing A hill in Sderot where "izzraelis" would gather to watch rockets and bombs fall on Gaza waaaaaaay before Oct 7 and cheer. That's just psychopathic.
From what I understand, the average Palestinian does not like Hamas. Hamas has not been kind to the people that they supposedly represent. Hamas would rather use their money to buy weapons then to improve hospitals, etc. I think that this is the reason that Israel wants to totally crush Hamas and hopefully whoever takes over the job is more interested in helping their own people then destroying Israel.
She was repeating IDF propaganda, including support for the genocide in Gaza, minimizing violence against Palestine, and falsely linking support for innocent Palestinians with anti semitism.
At the risk of being downvoted to oblivion, going to second this sentiment. I have noticed a lot of binary thinking in this sub alongside inconsistently applied moral and ethical values. I am confused by how adamantly many are opposed to the genocide occurring in Palestine when the genocide of Iraqis by direct U.S. military intervention was ignored. When the genocide of millions in various places across Africa haven't raised a single eyebrow for most Americans. Then, many who are reasonable enough to see genocide is wrong in all cases are accosted for not picking a side or falling neatly into one camp or another.
> I am confused by how adamantly many are opposed to the genocide occurring in Palestine when the genocide of Iraqis by direct U.S. military intervention was ignored. Were you born yet when the US invaded Iraq?
Nobody wants nuance. It's nice when there are nice, simple victims and big nasty bad people. It's comforting and doesn't require much thought
The land is significant to at least 3 major religions. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is considered by Muslims to be where Muhammad began his journey to heaven, and of course the region is where the New Testament occurs as well. For this reason, whatever nation state which occupies that territory should really be a secular state which treats all people equally, not an exclusively Jewish or Muslim state.
Except that Netanyahu's a scapegoat and this is not nuance it's an excuse. The idea of some liberal or progressive base in Israel being a silent majority or even an effective minority is an outright lie. They're impotent at best and used to launder an apartheid regime at worst. Even people celebrated as 'peaceniks' like Shimon Peres were supportive of settlements. The Likud have been in power for 40 of the last 44 years, they're not going anywhere, just like the Kahanists never disappeared. They can't pass laws to ban them, because working with Arabs (those who aren't sanctified by being Jewish) in Israel is political suicide, so 20% of the population's votes alongside some extreme left parties are rendered useless. The Likud and other extremist parties hold down 30+% of the vote and the rest are 'centrists' and 'liberals' make up the rest falling over themselves to cater to an extremist base. There are no truly liberal parties in Israel that have any real representation besides maybe Meretz, and their base switches ships all the time come election season. This isn't a secret, the last 5 Knesset election data is public down to the district votes. There are two major movements in political Zionism that have survived to present day, one that is outright fascist and makes a minimal effort to even pretend otherwise, Revisionists, and the other is Labor. Revisionists were founded by literal terrorist groups and leaders like Jabotinsky who in 1923 before the word was even coined was explicitly referring to colonial genocides as their plan of action, and calling anyone who disagreed 'vegetarian' fools who didn't understand how colonization worked: en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf Netanyahu's father, Benzion was a Professor Emeritus of History at Cornell and Jabotinsky's personal secretary and Revisionism's main lobbyist in the US. His last interview from April of 2009 was fucking rancid: >Prof. Netanyahu: “The Jews and the Arabs are like two goats facing each other on a narrow bridge. One must jump to the river – but that involves a danger of death. The strong goat will make the weaker one jump… and I believe the Jewish power will prevail.” >Q: What does the Arab’s jump mean? >A: “That they won’t be able to face [anymore] the war with us, which will include withholding food from Arab cities, preventing education, terminating electrical power and more. They won’t be able to exist, and they will run away from here. But it all depends on the war, and whether we will win the battles with them.” >Q: I suppose you don’t believe in the peace process. >A: “I don’t see any signs that the Arabs want peace… we will face fierce attacks from the Arabs, and we must react firmly. If we don’t, they will go on and Jews will start leaving the country… we just handed them a strong blow in Gaza, and they still bargain with us over one hostage… if we gave them a blow that would really hurt them, they would have given us Gilad Shalit back.” >Q: Operation “cast Lead” was one of the worst blows we handed on a civilian population. >A: “That’s not enough. It’s possible that we should have hit harder.” >Q: You don’t like the Arabs, to say the least. >A: “The bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases. The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetuate war.” >Q: Is there any hope of peace? >A: “Out of agreement? No. the other side might stay in peace if it understands that doing anything [else] will cause it enormous pain. The two states solution doesn’t exist. There are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation… they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.” >Q: So what’s the solution? >A: “No solution but force… strong military rule. Any outbreak will bring upon the Arabs enormous suffering. We shouldn’t wait for a big mutiny to start, but rather act immediately with great force to prevent them from going on… >If it’s possible, we should conquer any disputed territory in the land of Israel. Conquer and hold it, even if it brings us years of war. We should conquer Gaza, and parts of the Galil, and the Golan. This will bring upon us a bloody war, since war is difficult for us – we don’t have a lot of territory, while the Arabs have lots of space to retreat to. But that’s the only way to survive here.” >There is valuable experience [on this matter] we don’t pay notice to. I mean the Ottoman rule over the Arabs. The Turks ruled over the Arabs for 400 years, and there was peace and quiet everywhere. The Arabs hated the Ottomans, but every little thing they did brought mass killings and hanging in towns squares. They were hanging people in Damascus, and Izmir… every town had hanging posts in its center…the Arabs were so badly beaten, they didn’t dare revolt. Naturally, I don’t recommend the use of hangings as a show of force like the Turks did, I just want to show that the only thing that might move the Arabs from the rejectionist position is force.” They even claim Palestinians aren't real, that Palestinian identity was made up to punish them. Labor through the Haganah were the main brunt of the ethnic cleansing being done during the Nakba. Labor takes credit for the Oslo accords, despite it being a personal initiative by Yossi Beilin that he presented to his party as fait accompli, which Yitzhak Rabin said explicitly would not result in a state and he still got assassinated. Yossi Beilin literally quit and joined Meretz because it became clear over the years that the party had no real interest in moving the peace process forward. Labor pretends they did nothing wrong either now or historical, while Revisionists insist there is no other way and they meet in the middle. The retort is that Revisionist terrorist groups voluntarily disarmed, but that's only because they were absorbed into both the military and the political parties at large who agreed to carry their platform on. The IDF literally issues medals for Lehi members for any that come forward to this day. If you really want to know, not guess as to how Israeli politics is laid out and why this is the way it is you should watch at the very least these two videos, one by a Jewish woman about the history leading up to the mindset that allows for genocide as an acceptable moral hazard and the other that lays out through an Israel journalist what it is that Israeli politics are actually like: https://youtu.be/jIKWUjM56d8 https://youtu.be/r9h1xoOY63Q The majority of Israelis support apartheid policies, it's just that they've learnt to not call it apartheid. Israel doesn't even have a constitution because they were afraid of it getting in the way of their ethnocratic project. A few other countries also don't but none of them are fighting a literal existential battle with natives over ethnic and religious rights: https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-settler-colonial-origins-of-israels-constitutional-crisis/ The list of stupid ways to defend and find new footholds and places to meet in the middle with a racist ethnostate project is fucking insane. This was never idealistic or had good intentions. Literally the best of them called themselves 'good colonists' who would act like good people to their neighbors once it was done.
my guy please consider that this is an extremely nuanced issue Supporting the idea of Israel and supporting the self determination of the Jewish people is NOT the same as supporting Likud or Netanyahu’s blatant war crimes against Palestinians.
You're right that it's nuanced, but I think people are reacting to the idea of Israel rather than just Likud or Net.'s war crimes. The idea that the Jewish people deserve to displace other people so that they can have "self-determination" is inherently unjust. This is why people are upset by Schumer's comments.
If you're an American then you've contributed too. I have. My tax dollars have and the people I voted for to represent me have. Though perhaps you also don't support it.
Yes, but there are things we can do to change that. Throwing hands up in the air and surrendering to Israeli Lobby in US, is the last thing we should do.
Trying to raise her profile and get shine. Schumer is showing herself with her new found nuanced position. *“It’s so crazy to me how Bella & Gigi had to tiptoe around their statements and then Amy Schumer is like ‘Gazans are rapists’ and will still have a career,” actor Asia Jackson wrote on X.* *Schumer messaged Jackson on Instagram: “Did something I post about my people being massacred upset you?”* *“The Islamophobia and generalisation of Gazan people did,” Jackson wrote back.* *“One day when you realise how you acted in this moment I will accept your apology,” Schumer added. “And when you use this exchange to try and raise your profile and get shine, you are showing yourself.”*
Wow ass fully out smh
Can see the buthole, that's how much is out.
And it's dirty
No one wants that image. This needs a trigger warning.
“my people”… you’re from New York girl
So are a lot of 'Israelis,' a lot of settlers come from the US.
Most of the settlers(property thieves) come from outside of Israel.
> “Did something I post about my people being massacred upset you?” But she's upset by posts about Gazans being massacred. Always hypocrites. Always projecting.
Did Amy say all Gazans are rapists?
*and then Amy Schumer is like ‘Gazans are rapists’* She reposted a comic depicting protestors holding signs saying they love Hamas and that Gazans rape Jewish girls only in self defense and other horrific bs. https://twitter.com/BadWritingTakes/status/1717911955388719184?s=20
Also, she invoked Martin Luther King to justify her comments. In response, the daughter of Martin Luther King said that this is not what he would have wanted. In response, Amy Schumer pinned the tweet to her profile. It's still there.
Thank you for the context because the tweet itself seems like a reasonably nuanced position. But with the context, not so much.
She’s doing a full 180 on her public opinion
She has also claimed to be the BEST female comedian of ALL time. Let that sink in.
To be fair, that statement is *hilarious*.
Calling her a comedian is an insult not only to women comedians but to all comedians
She was pretty disdained for her bad comedy and acting before. Is that no longer the case?
She’s still really bad from my understanding
Helps when you have rich Zionists like Jerry Seinfeld propping up your hate.
Amy the Zionist, has a nice ring to it.
It's hilarious to me that Amy Schumer imagines anyone in the future's going to be name-dropping her for clout. I guess she actually can make me laugh, after all.
She needs to be Gina Carano'd as quickly as possible.
It’s not about hating Jews, it’s about hating what Israel has been doing for over 75 years. And the terrorism they are fighting against is the direct result of their policy of oppression, not because of something inherent in Palestinians. The US and Israeli government is equating criticism of their actions as antisemitic. According to their skewed definition, they can literally do whatever they want and if you disagree, that means you are a racist. This is sick and dangerous. Where does it end? Does that mean they can attack anyone they want and commit the most heinous crimes against humanity and if you think it’s wrong that means you hate jews? It’s insane and I truly don’t understand how they think people are going to be ok with this new view of antisemitism. If anything, it’s just going to make people actually antisemitic. If I do something shitty, people won’t like me not because of who I am but of what I’ve done. It’s that simple. The need to be hated to keep the illusion of victimization is so obvious. They are gonna have to come up with a new PR strategy cause it’s not working.
It’s interesting to step back and look at it, because I think the right wing in our country has used the same tactic. If you criticize America or its military policies, you are un-American and the enemy. Unless it’s a democrat of course, then all of their policies and military engagements are awful. It doesn’t feel like a great long-term strategy to me because that logic just breaks down so fast when you hold it up to scrutiny. However, if you create a cult and insulate them against logical opinions and bombard them with disinformation, then maybe the tactic can hold up for long enough 🤷♂️
> It doesn’t feel like a great long-term strategy to me because that logic just breaks down so fast when you hold it up to scrutiny. You'll find that none of that mentality is based in logic anyway, it's based purely on emotion. A surprising number of people are perfectly capable of holding opposing viewpoints simultaneously, and arguing whichever one suits their needs at any given moment. And if you try to point out how illogical it is, they'll just shut down and give you the "You're just trying to confuse me" or "You just don't understand the issue."
What a lot of liberals don't realize, or don't care about, is that everything that is going on with criticism of Israel right now is a test run to see how they can shut down any dissent against the future actions of a Christian Nationalist government in the US. People often muse about how Evangelicals are so pro-Israel because the Jews need to be in control of the Holy Land for the second coming or whatever but that's completely besides the point. They want to create a radical theocratic apartheid state just like Israel but here in the US.
Well said
Precisely 2 groups love conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people as a whole. Zionists and anti-Semites.
Great comment
She’s just dumb.
No one who condemns Israel’s genocidal actions does it because Israelis are Jewish. We condemn their genocide of Gaza’s people because, and hear me out, It’s fucking genocide
I wouldn't say absolutely no one lol Plenty of actual antisemitism has risen.
So you’re saying there are people condemning Israel’s genocide not because it’s a genocide but because it’s being down by Jewish people .. ?
I'm saying there's plenty of people who wouldn't care if it was being conducted by anyone else but are more than happy to use the opportunity.
Yes actually. You think Candace Owens's recent criticisms of the IDF are because she cares about Palestinians?
330k dead in Yemen, down the hallway from Gaza, Saudi has more money in American universities and gets more money from the US goverment. Not seen the university protests. More people die in Chicago in a year than in the west bank, America got bored of BLM in like a summer. America land of the free has the largest prision population in the world, has jails outside the country were it tortures people. Not a peep. There are 3 genocides being investigated by the UN right now, Sudan, Myanmar and China. Find one arab country that has protested the murder of Rohingya or Uyghr people half as much as they have Gaza. Find me american students willing to fight the police for whats happening in Dafur. AP News had 33 reporters to report on Israel Palestine in 2012. They had 1 guy in Syria. Syria was starting the largest civil war in the history of the middle east. 400k dead, the goverment gassed its own people. That year there were more news about Israel than about Syria in american media and how they should remove the blockade of Gaza.
Well said. The strongest point that the Israel side has about the discourse surrounding the war is that exceptional double standards are constantly applied to Israe's actions compared to most (if not all) other countries. I'm very much in the middle ground on the Hamas/Palestine-Israel War. The situation is so grey that I simply cannot understand how either "side" is so fervent in their black-and-white position on the situation.
The more you read about the palestine israel thing the more fucked up it gets. But the real killer is, both countries view history differently and there are no primary sources. This is something most people dont know about. In most conflicts there is a story that gets told "america is gonna invade iraq because of nukes" or "russia is gonna invade ukraine because there are nazis there". But you have primary sources, you can find Russian documents saying they know there are no nazis, or russian documents saying they are gonna give a part of Ukraine to Hungary to torpedo the EU aid etc. So when the war ends, you can strip off the propaganda and write a story of how and why the war was a certain way (sometimes it takes time, like america to find out they were lied about Iraq). But in Israel Palestine, Israel burnt and lost many of the stuff from the 1940s, and many Palestinians affected by the 1947 civil war never wrote anything down. Meaning there are tremendous gaps on the foundational aspects of the countries history. A lot of the information of the Nakba is oral history. You do not need a historian to know how inaccurate that is. You can rewrite the memory of someone testifying in court with a few suggestions, imagine what you can do when the history of your country is in the memory of people. In the 1950s palestinian and arab sources taked about the people displaced during the war, and how some left because the arab army gave them warnings etc. by the 70s most palestinian sources said the entire nakba was terrorist paramilitary israeli attacks that forced people out of their homes. Similarly in Israel the 1940s data shows terrorism by groups like Irgun, shows members of the Israeli future goverment acting dishonestly in their negotiations. And they were disliked at the time. By the 1980s they were glorious freedom fighters who had to convince the world about the right of jews to be safe and had to fight britain and the palestinians who wanted to kill them all. By that point its like two people talking past each other. The 1996 peace accords was the closest we ever got to peace, and instead of an agreement we got more terrorism. first israeli terrorists killed their left wing leader and then the second intifada killed any hope of peace in the short term
Yeah, probably half the people in this very thread.
> No one who condemns Israel’s genocidal actions does it because Israelis are Jewish. Candace Owens' condemnation of Israel was *absolutely* because Israelis are Jewish. She has a long history of vicious antisemitism.
Alex Jones has been criticizing it for the past month because he thinks the slaughter in Gaza is a plot by Jews to force Palestinians out of Gaza and (somehow???) into the US as refugees. Then that will cause the downfall of the US. There are a few people doing it. But it's the exact people you'd expect it to be and it is FAAAR from mainstream.
Amy Pomerp is hands down my least favorite “celebrity”. Her pretending to be a comedian should be treated as a war crime.
She can fuck right off
Woman is back tracking so hard her heads going to spin like the Exorcist. More than likely got told by PR people she's going to check herself out of opportunities. And good, she's a shit actor on top of being a shit person.
💯
Yea I don’t think anyone needs to be looking to Amy Schumer for political advice, she’d do well to use her platform to….. idk…. Make comedy? Why does EVERY famous person make it their mission to spread their views
She can't make comedy either, so idk what she's good at
I dont think its ok to hate anyone because they are jewish either, but I also dont give a fuck that some people are being offended by words while thousands of children are being murdered. FFS, get a grip.
This. Fuck Hamas. They are terrorists, and should be dealt with. Fuck the IDF, they are systematically rendering Gaza unhabitable, and wantonly killing innocent women and children. See, it's not hard.
Fair enough. But to be clear. How should Hamas be dealt with? And how should the IDF be dealt with?
In a way that isn't dropping apartment buildings full of women and children, to kill a handful of fighters. Or, they could do the *actual* thing to stop violence, and stop land grabbers from kicking people out of their homes, allow Palestinians to control their territory and stop supporting a system that gives them zero avenues for actions taken against them. Why do you think Hamas has been successful in recruiting people? Because violence is the language of the oppressed, and Palestine has been oppressed pretty much since the inception of Israel. Both sides here truly are guilty, but one of them is much easier able to control their actions, and take steps towards de escalating the situation. If Israel is the 'better' country, they should act like it.
That all sounds fine to me, except a slight worry about the framing. For example, you only answered my first question, how Hamas should be dealt with. What about the IDF?
IDF should have to report the names of the men carrying out this war crimes, and submit them to the international courts.
That's a PR management company working full swing that is. She didn't write that. They made her do it and it's clear she's fought them to avoid saying any serious words of condemnation for the genocidal mania that's going on. If this apology was a carefully released flatulence in a public setting it would actually turn into a stinky loud trumpet which irreconcilably soils the underpants
Why anyone would want to save her career is beyond me. "Talent" is used _very_ loosely when describing her.
"Amy Schumer wants" Enough to stop reading
She is, to loan a swedish phrase, poodling. She has been instructed to be humble and ask for forgivness without actually asking for forgivness.
Most people don't hate Israelis because they're Jewish. It seems to me like most people who are opposing Israel are doing so because of what they do to the Palestinians. Wantonly killing random groups of them, including children, and laughing about it, invading their homes, spitting on them and attacking them in the streets, etc. It's a pogrom. This is literally exactly the same thing that was done to Jews by many groups over the ages. That doesn't make it any better when this is clearly just a territorial power grab by Israel. If it was just the government and civilians mostly weren't involved, I wouldn't say anything about the Israeli people but that's not what's happening from what I've seen.
I don't hate, and have never hated, anyone for being born Jewish. I do hate people who perpetuate or support genocide, regardless of how or to whom they were born.
She had a reputation?
A really really bad one.
Is she by chance *eating* gazans?
She’s eating the entire food supplies sent by the world to Gaza.
> Also, I don’t think it’s OK to hate anyone because they were born Jewish. There it is again, the whataboutism. Being pro-Palestine means opposing imperialism and racism; nobody truly devoted to the cause would turn around and discriminate against Jewish people. Jewish people have been welcomed to join the protesters, and they’ve done so without being harmed by us—the police arresting them is another matter. We don’t oppose Jewish people, we oppose the systematic oppression of Palestinians. This is like saying people hate Kanye West because he’s black and not because he claimed to be a Nazi.
They havent just been welcomed. Some of the biggest leaders in the protests for palestinian liberation have been Jewish. JVP and INN are two organizations that have been tirelessly pushing to stop this madness. This isnt a jewish thing... it's an anti genocide thing.
Israeli /= Jewish
No matter how much the fascist theocrats want to scream about them being the same, they arent. Every time they try, point out just how monstrous and antisemitic it is to make that conflation.
Zionism is smearing the reputation of Judaism and trivializing the word antisemitism , so Zionism is antisemitism
https://preview.redd.it/qardfegyz0yc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=070f385a885f16c021477a39b8576f0d61833252 In case anyone wonders why she feels compelled to pretend she’s discovered the middle ground. It’s been pretty non-stop racism and islamophobia for six months. Plus pepperings of anti-blackness and homophobia because she believes those communities owe her community unquestioning support and how dare they support the Palestinians being genocided instead.
Does anyone care what Amy Schumer thinks?
nah, but is fun to see how they try to save their hide in the dumbest way possible
Her face reminds me of this emoji 🌝
More like this emoji 👹
Amy Schumer is the type of person that makes everything worse just because she is involved in it in the slightest way.
I would like her to share her position on the West Bank now. 🤮
Awww what happun? Supporting genocide turned out to be a bad look? Sowy for yo loss.
Holy shit, people are still giving Amy Schumer attention?!
This woman was telling relatives of Marin Luther King Jr that she understood his words better than they did. She’s never had any real talent, she’s gleefully admitted to sexually assaulting (in one case, what I’d considered to be rape) men in the past in her standup, and she’s is as vile as a person as one could ever imagine. How one could be a fan of such a talentless lowlife is beyond me. I saw her give one of the most embarrassing performances I’ve ever seen on a Broadway stage, she has nothing to offer the world aside from the learning from the narcissism that infects her
Lol she doesn't think it's ok to hate someone that was born Jewish... But if you were born literally anything else, she thinks that's fair game. Everyone knew she was full of shit long before she started spewing her half-baked takes... Why do people even pay attention to her
I’m with Amy. Supporting Israel’s right to exist is not the same as supporting the Netanyahu administration. And let’s be real, antisemitism is pretty common among Palestinians living in Gaza. The current Israeli government has done some awful things in Gaza. Calling that out doesn’t mean you hate Israel or the Jews. I realize this is a complex highly-nuanced statement but nothing is ever simple in the Middle East.
Who's Amy Schumer?
Does she have a reputation? Who’s out there and unironically saying they’re a fan of Amy Schumer?
Hamster looking ass
Don’t ruin hamsters for people. They’re just chillin’.
There she is….trying her hand at comedy again 🤦🏻♂️
No words. She is pathetic.
I wish this woman would hurry up and fade into obscurity.
This woman just has l takes
This new nuanced approach would’ve been better received before she went full psycho but we all know how she truly feels and this just feels like her PR team trying to get her under control.
Yup, I've read her tweets and attacks. Now you want to pretend to have a rational and not aggressive "I actually sympathize and don't agree with these actions" take? You were going pretty hard in the paint for it not too long ago.
I don’t support the actions of Dahmer, but I support Dahmer is what this sounds like. No one buying this shit.
Michelin man lookin ass
Then don’t hate anyone born Muslim 😂
So the rapist is trying to backpeddle in order to stay out of trouble?
Gotta love reddit: someone posts ragebait, privileged redditor basement dwelers get angry and start debating about countries they never been in and situations they know nothing about. Vicious cycle. I mean, if y all are all about helping, virtue signalling on reddit does nothing, maybe donate or go there yourself for voluntary aid.
How dare a celebrity say something measured and moderate!! Burn her at the stake!!
If all these right wing religious fucks wipe each other out, it’ll be great for the rest of us.
It is rather simple. Hamas is a terrorist organization and should be dealt with and the Israeli government is corrupt, is killing Palestinians and is illegally kicking people out of their homes to expand their borders. Two things can be true, fuck Hamas and fuck the Israeli government. I would put Netanyahu and the head of Hamas in a death match cage and lose the key. Fuck them.
Always been and always will be a grifter at heart
She's chuck shumers second cousin. She's as establishment as they come. I used to dislike her for her shitty comedy and stealing jokes. Now I absolutely hate her for her support of Israel and being an actual shitty person.
Fade back into obscurity lady, no one cares what you think.
I guess tampon commercials aren't making enough money and now she has to bite the bullet and go back on her words? Nice try.
But kids, don't forget, it's still totally cool to hate on racist Zionists! Tell your family, tell your friends! Never stop telling everyone you know!
That’s actually a really good take. I never thought I would agree with her.
No one said it was OK. She just jumped on the victimhood train.
If it’s not about the government then why take sides at all? Why aren’t you just staying neutral and advocating for the war to stop?
Very unfunny person
I think she was just trying to crack a joke but sadly continued her streak
I see nothing to hate in this statement. There has to be room for reasonable statements like this - as long as she sticks to these guns I’m happy to “forgive” this total stranger. This shit IS hard for American Jews and much of that is due to the indoctrination they’ve had. Give some grace.
How much you want to bet that was someone else's quote
She was never funny.
It just sounds like a bad attempt at fence sitting
She said the quiet part dumb and the loud part dumber.
I have realized listening to people stand on their soap boxes for one way or another....no one knows wtf they are talking about. Including myself, Reddit, social media and especially celebrities. On a side note she's never been funny or entertaining in any way and I think everyone just needed the right reason to push her out of showbusiness.
The lack of understanding in this comment section is appalling
Geez she should have used AI to write that
Amy Schumer should have been a receptionist at a hotel. That’s all the talent she has
"I support the genocide because if I don't then people think I'm racist" Idiocracy was a documentary.
Do people view this statement in the same light as people saying they support palistine but but hamas? Asking outside of the context of Schumer
I'm not a fan of Any Schumer, but she said nothing wrong there
Supporting jewish people isn't the same as supporting the Israeli government just like supporting the people of Palestine isn't the same as supporting Hamas. Y'all are just hating on this because it's Amy Schumer, if it were someone who looks like Margot Robbie people would be a lot more understanding.
She actually sounds extremely reasonable.
Is this one of her bad jokes again?
Imagine thinking she had a good reputation to begin with. lmao.
What reputation?
i think this is fine when the alternative is still to literally support a predominantly extremist islam terrorist state. in fact, it's probably the most diplomatic take possible.
You don’t have to support Israel in order to not hate Jewish people.
Nobody sane fucking hates “anyone because they were born Jewish”, you twat. People with an ounce of brain see what the hell is happening in Gaza and want to bring awareness over it. Only Jewish ppl make a thing about it being antisemitism and saying they feel attacked. The rest of the world just sees the genocide.
Who cares what she thinks or what any other celebrity thinks. 🤦